Gerry Dobson: Expansion Update

[Redcoe15]

Gerry Dobson talks about DeRo's introduction to Toronto as the newest member of TFC and gives his two cents into MLS's latest expansion update.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2009/01/24/dobson_expansion_dero/

[Beach_Red]

The burning question, as I see it, is this: Does the league have the guts to expand into Canada not only with one team, but with two? There will be one for sure and it will be Vancouver.

But the facts say Ottawa is a better bid than its competitors.

It would be great to see them both, but if only one gets in I'd like it to be Ottawa so we'd get 4 teams in the Canadian Championship.

[Stryker]

Not a snowballs chance in hell both canadian teams will get in this year.
We'll be lucky to get Vancouver.

[tfc]

that would be f*cking huge. More teams in Canada can only mean good things for our national team and the future of football in this country. The CSA is seriously missing the boat with MLS, and somebody needs to grab the reins to provide a viable route for young canadian football players.

[Marc"2L"]

Not to mention The Don will be visiting Ottawa in the mist of a 2 month old transit strike that's about to turn ugly starting Monday afternoon. There's a protest downtown on parliament hill and it's very likely should anybody screem "riot" that some cars might get burned....or at least I'm hoping.

[Beach_Red]

Not to mention The Don will be visiting Ottawa in the mist of a 2 month old transit strike that's about to turn ugly starting Monday afternoon. There's a protest downtown on parliament hill and it's very likely should anybody screem "riot" that some cars might get burned....or at least I'm hoping.

:D That would certainly make Ottawa look like a soccer town.

Is there any chance the stadium would still get built for a USL team? Be nice to see a team in Edmonton, too, someday.

[Razcle]

I think I watched an interview with Eugene and the boys and they said the stadium will come only with an MLS franchise. They probably worked out the economics and decided that they couldn't pay off a stadium the size that is in their plans if they didn't have the MLS and it's North American marketing arm.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Iff course Ottawa is better then Vancouver,that was never a doubt...let the Caps sit on the fence for a while till a SSS is built or has the possibilty of being built.

[Razcle]

Iff course Ottawa is better then Vancouver,that was never a doubt...let the Caps sit on the fence for a while till a SSS is built or has the possibilty of being built.


I'm missing something but doesn't a SSS have to be built in Ottawa for the team to play in once they are selected to an expansion franchise? Where else would they play? :noidea: Maybe I just don't understand your comments

MLS Franchise in Ottawa = New Stadium

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I'm missing something but doesn't a SSS have to be built in Ottawa for the team to play in once they are selected to an expansion franchise? Where else would they play? :noidea: Maybe I just don't understand your comments

MLS Franchise in Ottawa = New Stadium


if Ottawa gets a team a stadium will get built....Vancouver cant say that for sure, and BC place is not, and should not be another option.

[Marc"2L"]

But the Ottawa stadium will be in Kanata and would be like all other suburban stadia in this god forsaken league.

Just build it at lansdown ffs. Frank Claire stadium is falling down (literally) so they won't even have to pay demo cost!

[ensco]

Sorry but I'm not buying this "Vancouver is a lock" stuff.

Remember, Dobson 100% backed Saputo's view of what happened to the Montreal MLS bid, despite the fact that it was pretty obvious that Saputo blew it. I just think Dobson is a little too close to his good sources on this issue.

Also, his opinion defies common sense. Any reading of the tea leaves would have to put Miami and St Louis as at least equal to, if not slightly ahead of, Vancouver, at least in the opinion of MLS HQ.

[Razcle]

Also, his opinion defies common sense. Any reading of the tea leaves would have to put Miami and St Louis as at least equal to, if not slightly ahead of, Vancouver, at least in the opinion of MLS HQ.


Like no big $$ backers St.Louis? I don't agree with your statement. From what I have read St.Louis need this just to be considered in the same sentence as Vancouver. No Bill$ no thrill$

[ensco]

Like no big $$ backers St.Louis? I don't agree with your statement. From what I have read St.Louis need this just to be considered in the same sentence as Vancouver. No Bill$ no thrill$

I agree with that. Look at what I wrote.

That's not what Dobson's saying - he's saying Vancouver is a lock.

[T_Mizz]

Yeah Dobson's prolly right, in this economy they can't risk having a team that doesn't have any moola

[Razcle]

Well unless someone can get right inside Garber's cue ball head and see what he is thinking. I wouldn't say anyone is a lock. BUT...the arguments he makes seem to make sence to me. Who knows. I just want to have another Canadian side in the MLS as long as they are going to be successful, so maybe I am just hoping he is right. Plus I would love to have the Ottawa bid accepted to add another top soccer club to Canada

[ginkster88]

^^St. Louis has money problems and still has to build a stadium which will be tough given these "economic circumstances." Miami also lacks an SSS and was proposing to play at FIU, which seems to go against Garber's expansion policy. Vancouver has the potential of a fabulous waterfront SSS AS WELL as provincial millions guaranteed to renovate BC Place to fit soccer specific standards. As for Ottawa, Melynk says that if there is a team, there will be a stadium, and he has the money to do it.

[Razcle]

And Portland has a mayor that likes to do little boys in the bum...or something like that. No need to invest in a place that is run with unstable government figures. (I don't actually know the whole story...so if someone wants to elaborate they can)

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm not trusting Dobson anymore. He has been wrong more times than I care to remember in all sorts of regards. I remember how he gave us a GUARANTEE that we will be signing a DP in the near future more than once in the past. Maybe it was just MLSE giving him false info and using him as a marketing ploy during the season tickets renewal period but either way ... Ives Galarcep he is not.

[Razcle]

Ottawa Bid maybe fighting Ottawa CFL for stadium money...Article has reference to Dobber

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/stadium+battle+begin/1212628/story.html

[Stryker]

Dobson and Johnson are both useless tools. Dobson reports like one and Johnson looks like one.

[twistedchinaman]

:D That would certainly make Ottawa look like a soccer town.

Is there any chance the stadium would still get built for a USL team? Be nice to see a team in Edmonton, too, someday.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Cashcleaner]

BC Place will suit the Whitecaps fine in a pinch. NEWSFLASH! The world won't come to an end if they end up playing two or three seasons there as they wait for their new facility to be finalized and built. Ottawa, on the other hand, needs to either build a new stadium from scratch or extensively renovate an existing facility as soon as their bid is accepted. I don't think any of the area universities or colleges would be up for groundsharing, so Ottawa has a lot more work to do than Vancouver. Again, on top of all that, summer sport just hasn't shown to be a wise investment in the region and I simply don't see people coming out to watch soccer in the city.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

BC Place will suit the Whitecaps fine in a pinch. NEWSFLASH! The world won't come to an end if they end up playing two or three seasons there as they wait for their new facility to be finalized and built. Ottawa, on the other hand, needs to either build a new stadium from scratch or extensively renovate an existing facility as soon as their bid is accepted. I don't think any of the area universities or colleges would be up for groundsharing, so Ottawa has a lot more work to do than Vancouver. Again, on top of all that, summer sport just hasn't shown to be a wise investment in the region and I simply don't see people coming out to watch soccer in the city.

play 2 or 3 years...? that SSS might never ger built at all in Vancouver, the way they are going, and with the city no doubt going to be debt in
debt with the 2010 Olympics...it might never get built. Vancouver is a top
lacrosse city just like football, but where is Vancouvers NLL team, folded
do to lack of fan support, which would be the same for the Caps if MLS allows them in.

[rocker]

Garber has consistently complained about St. Louis's finances. He complained about this years ago, before awarding a team to Philly. and he said the same thing 2 weeks ago.
I don't hear him saying this about any other team. I would have to believe that the ownership's pockets are the #1 factor in this. Stadium? Well, he let San Jose come back to play in a shitbox. Then he allowed Seattle to come in playing in a 60000+ seat NFL stadium with fieldturf. So the SSS thing isn't a dealbreaker. The San Jose dude is already talking about building a really budget model stadium too (like 15000 seats or whatever. sheesh!).

The thing with Portland isn't just that the mayor banged a teen boy, but that Portland still needs a lot of government help to get that stadium renovated and a baseball stadium built. Now with this mayoral scandal that might be more difficult... the mayor was a Timbers Army member! I doubt other politicians will be working with him now on anything. But who knows..... I don't know how politics works there.

I believe if Vancouver was an American city they'd now be the #1. No controversies, deep pockets, stadium in a kick ass location, great history for soccer and solid market. The only downside in my mind is that they are canadian. But if TFC has any sway, maybe that's an asset -- developing the Canadian market to help TFC in the process.

I can't wait to hear Vanny's name called. Ottawa? Man, that would be awesome. I have no confidence Ottawa would succeed, but why not try? And it would just be kicking sand in Montreal's face if Vanny and Ottawa got in. hahaha

[Beach_Red]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Okay, it would be nice to see one in Calgary, too, but I'm a South West guy, so not in McMahon, there'd have to be a new stadium on the Stampede grounds. You could have chuckwagon races after the games....

[Razcle]

Again, on top of all that, summer sport just hasn't shown to be a wise investment in the region and I simply don't see people coming out to watch soccer in the city.

What do you base your comments on? CFL, AAA-baseball, Semi-pro soccer? The MLS Ottawa group did some extensive research and found that Ottawa citizens would be able to support a franchaise in this area. It is a primary reason that they are willing to drop min 40M on the franchaise, plus some portion of the cost of a new facility.

Maybe your from the Ottawa area and you have some knowledge that the rest of us don't. But I fail to see why this group would proceed unless they knew they were going to be successful.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

What do you base your comments on? CFL, AAA-baseball, Semi-pro soccer? The MLS Ottawa group did some extensive research and found that Ottawa citizens would be able to support a franchaise in this area. It is a primary reason that they are willing to drop min 40M on the franchaise, plus some portion of the cost of a new facility.

Maybe your from the Ottawa area and you have some knowledge that the rest of us don't. But I fail to see why this group would proceed unless they knew they were going to be successful.


Toronto fans in general are anti Ottawa in sports Terms....Ottawa has a NHL team..Toronto does not...Otawa might get a winning MLS team before TFC do...Its all Toronto propoganda.I just wish the MLB and the NBA had given Toronto a second though before given franchises there.

[The Oz]

Toronto fans in general are anti Ottawa in sports Terms....Ottawa has a NHL team..Toronto does not...Otawa might get a winning MLS team before TFC do...Its all Toronto propoganda.I just wish the MLB and the NBA had given Toronto a second though before given franchises there.

Whoa buddy, what's with all the hate? You're such a big TFC fan yet you're bashing the city's teams? Yes we aren't the best but this is unwarranted.

[Shakes McQueen]

Toronto fans in general are anti Ottawa in sports Terms....Ottawa has a NHL team..Toronto does not...Otawa might get a winning MLS team before TFC do...Its all Toronto propoganda.I just wish the MLB and the NBA had given Toronto a second though before given franchises there.

What the hell are you talking about?

Toronto, while obviously not the winningest sports capital in the world, is a great sports market:

- The Leafs are the most financially successful team in the NHL, and are impossible to get tickets for.

- The Raptors rank as around the 15th most financially successful team in the NBA, and about 15th in average attendance too - solidly in the middle of the lost. They also have a decent record of making the playoffs since the team was formed.

- Toronto FC is the crown jewel of MLS, as far as finances, attendance and atmosphere goes.

- The Blue Jays, while they have had some attendance problems since the player's strike, are on the up-and-up in terms of revenues, and have solid ownership in Rogers.

Ottawa is a total crap shoot. The Senators almost wen't broke only a few short years ago. Their CFL team has come and gone on more than one occasion.

Would I like to see Ottawa thrive as a sports city? Absolutely - the more the merrier. But the idea that these leagues should have passed over Toronto, in favour of Ottawa, is patently ridiculous. Toronto is the biggest sports market in Canada - Montreal is a close second.

Ottawa's sports history is spotty at best. I would take Vancouver before Ottawa, for an MLS franchise.

Personally, I really wish Montreal had stayed in the running. The road trips would have been incredible, and I'm certain the team would have been a success.

Your dislike for Toronto aggravates me.

- Scott

[Cashcleaner]

What do you base your comments on? CFL, AAA-baseball, Semi-pro soccer? The MLS Ottawa group did some extensive research and found that Ottawa citizens would be able to support a franchaise in this area. It is a primary reason that they are willing to drop min 40M on the franchaise, plus some portion of the cost of a new facility.

Maybe your from the Ottawa area and you have some knowledge that the rest of us don't. But I fail to see why this group would proceed unless they knew they were going to be successful.

To answer your question...YES!

CFL came and left (twice). Baseball came and left. The Fury get around three hundred people coming out for PDL matches.

So you say Ottawa citizens would be willing to support a team? Excellent! Where are their fan sites? Where are their Sons of Ben? Where ar their Emerald City Supporters?

Strange as this may sound, but you don't need to come from the city to note its drawbacks for an MLS expansion team. Dobson isn't from Miami, Portland, or St. Louis but I don't recall you mentioning that when he weighed in with his opinion on those candidates.

[greatwhitenorf]

If you read Richard Starnes article, the key to the whole process to getting an MLS franchise for Ottawa is the presence of Cyril Leeder, one of Senators inaugural owner Bruce Firestone's key guys in absolutely stealing an NHL franchise at a time when no one thought they had a hope in hell.

Leeder was a key behind-the-scenes player in getting the Sens arena land deals done and in running the business side of things. Now he's making some sensible points in the debate about whether it's soccer or football that gets the nod.

Melnyk has buckets of money. He also has a great track record with what he's done in restoring the Senators to robust health, as well as with the recent hugely succesful world juniors tournament. Here in Toronto, he's also scoring points for showing character and principles with how he's patiently rebuilding the St. Mike's Majors in the OHL, whose attendance is up over 20% in their second season in Mississauga. They're aiming to get the Memorial Cup in there in three years time, six at the outside. Watch him do it.

Put him and Leeder together, and I'd put my money on them getting it done before Jeff Hunt's consortium. Never mind all the crap talk about travelling to far off Kanata - Ottawa's version of what, Streetsville, geographically? The gripers make it sound like it's in frickin Narnia. They fill the Sens arena every week and the highways are about to be expanded to speed traffic in and out.

Hunt does relatively well in getting 6-odd thousand out regularly to watch the 67s, but that crowd is often papered with a fair bit of subsidized or handout tickets. Football has died twice in that town and confidence in a third rebirth - Ladies and Gents, let's hear it for your Ottawa Cylons! - is becoming tenuous. And traffic is a nightmare around Landsdowne, the streets in the district are becoming tighter than frog's arse.

Add in the fact that the MLS guys will appreciate the broader value of having a team in Our Nation's Capital, helping to generate lots of very valuable political goodwill down the road for both the league and the game in general, and Melnyk is gonna have his nose in front when this race is run.

And that's the name of that tune.

[T_Mizz]

What do you base your comments on? CFL, AAA-baseball, Semi-pro soccer? The MLS Ottawa group did some extensive research and found that Ottawa citizens would be able to support a franchaise in this area. It is a primary reason that they are willing to drop min 40M on the franchaise, plus some portion of the cost of a new facility.

Maybe your from the Ottawa area and you have some knowledge that the rest of us don't. But I fail to see why this group would proceed unless they knew they were going to be successful.
Look Melnyk is a multi gagillionaire do you really think he made all that money by sinking millions into investments that he hasn't extensively researched? Do you think he's just doing this as a summer project? The man's in it to make a boatload of cash, he's certain he's going to do that, who are we to say otherwise?

[Cashcleaner]

Yeah...ummmm, so you say this but you're not willing to apply the same argument to the other cities in contention? Are Miami's backers any less financially shrewd? Does the group behind Portland's bid somehow have less know-how in sports ownership than Melnyk? Please answer me that.

Just because Melnyk has the money and vision, that doesn't mean the other candidates don't. You have to look at a much larger picture than just who can afford what.

[Razcle]

To answer your question...YES!

CFL came and left (twice). Baseball came and left. The Fury get around three hundred people coming out for PDL matches.

So you say Ottawa citizens would be willing to support a team? Excellent! Where are their fan sites? Where are their Sons of Ben? Where ar their Emerald City Supporters?

Strange as this may sound, but you don't need to come from the city to note its drawbacks for an MLS expansion team. Dobson isn't from Miami, Portland, or St. Louis but I don't recall you mentioning that when he weighed in with his opinion on those candidates.

You are most definitely right that Dobson may/does have some bias in his reporting, and as I mentioned earlier my desire to have another Canadian team enter the league has made me want to believe Dobber that much more.

But in regards to where their fan sites are, it appears this is not the approach that the Ottawa bid is backing on. I don't think this is the smartest idea because as we have seen with TFC, the supporters groups are one of the reasons why TFC is the second most valuable franchaise in the MLS. However if there is the interest in professional soccer in Ottawa as Melnyk has eluded to..the Ottawa bid can be more successful than at least half of the other MLS teams, pending their best practices with Senetors Sports and Entertainment easily transfer to MLS.

It seems that although Ottawa doesn't come across as a sexy bid if you can understand the phrase. Their bid shows a solid/quality business foundation that should be successful in the MLS. So I basically think that Ottawa needs to hope for the other candidates to have major flaws in their bids in order to secure one of the spots.

I also don't believe the failed Ottawa teams you mention are in the same league as an MLS franchaise run by SSE. Maybe that is because I am a huge Red's supporter and I love the excitement the team and league brings to the spring/summer/fall and can see that translate to Ottawa. And I just haven't heard many negative comments about the bid other then Ottawa being a relatively small market thus not improving greatly the broadcasting or merchandising of the league.

[Razcle]

Yeah...ummmm, so you say this but you're not willing to apply the same argument to the other cities in contention? Are Miami's backers any less financially shrewd? Does the group behind Portland's bid somehow have less know-how in sports ownership than Melnyk? Please answer me that.

Just because Melnyk has the money and vision, that doesn't mean the other candidates don't. You have to look at a much larger picture than just who can afford what.

See that is a good point, and unless you have done some research on the big players of the other bids it is hard to argue.

[werewolf]

BC Place will suit the Whitecaps fine in a pinch. NEWSFLASH! The world won't come to an end if they end up playing two or three seasons there as they wait for their new facility to be finalized and built. Ottawa, on the other hand, needs to either build a new stadium from scratch or extensively renovate an existing facility as soon as their bid is accepted. I don't think any of the area universities or colleges would be up for groundsharing, so Ottawa has a lot more work to do than Vancouver. Again, on top of all that, summer sport just hasn't shown to be a wise investment in the region and I simply don't see people coming out to watch soccer in the city.


why do you say that?

[Cashcleaner]

You are most definitely right that Dobson may/does have some bias in his reporting, and as I mentioned earlier my desire to have another Canadian team enter the league has made me want to believe Dobber that much more.

But in regards to where their fan sites are, it appears this is not the approach that the Ottawa bid is backing on. I don't think this is the smartest idea because as we have seen with TFC, the supporters groups are one of the reasons why TFC is the second most valuable franchaise in the MLS. However if there is the interest in professional soccer in Ottawa as Melnyk has eluded to..the Ottawa bid can be more successful than at least half of the other MLS teams, pending their best practices with Senetors Sports and Entertainment easily transfer to MLS.

It seems that although Ottawa doesn't come across as a sexy bid if you can understand the phrase. Their bid shows a solid/quality business foundation that should be successful in the MLS. So I basically think that Ottawa needs to hope for the other candidates to have major flaws in their bids in order to secure one of the spots.

I also don't believe the failed Ottawa teams you mention are in the same league as an MLS franchaise run by SSE. Maybe that is because I am a huge Red's supporter and I love the excitement the team and league brings to the spring/summer/fall and can see that translate to Ottawa. And I just haven't heard many negative comments about the bid other then Ottawa being a relatively small market thus not improving greatly the broadcasting or merchandising of the league.Oh I don't mind Dobson having a bias in his reporting. There's few other things I'd like to see than more Canadian franchises playing in MLS and he feels the same way. We can all agree that more professional clubs in Canada will only best help the chances of the national program.

Their bid does show some great planning on the part of Melnyk and his crew, especially the layout of the proposed stadium and the community soccer programs they want to go hand-in-hand with the club (can someone say academy?). The issue I have is with whether or not they can attract the crowds needed to support the team at the proposed location. Personally, I don't see the arena out in Kanata as a huge problem, but the closer they can get to the city centre of Ottawa the better.

I shouldn't have to keep bringing up the fact that I personally love Ottawa as a city and would love to partake in regular roadtrips there to watch TFC play in both MLS and V-Cup tourney. It's just that I would hate to see all the effort and money go into a team there just to have it fold or move after a few seasons due to a lack of interest. Trust me when I say I would love to be proven wrong on this.

[Cashcleaner]

why do you say that?

Well, let me re-phrase that. Ottawa-Carleton is using Keith Harris Stadium that has had a recent resurface (they're now using Fieldturf whereas before it was a grass pitch) and now seats upwards of 3 thousand in only one grandstand. Currently, the Ravens mens and womens soccer and rugby teams play there, as well as the Ottawa Fury.

I guess you could expand the facility to accomodate the requirements for an MLS team, but judging by the maps, it would be awfully tight. Thats even if a groundshare deal would be workable given how much use the place gets by Ottawa-Careton. From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem feasible, but I should mention that it's in a pretty sweet location.

[Pachuco]

I'm officialy boycotting Dobson's blog. I can't take this terrible reporting anymore.

[Steve]

To answer your question...YES!

CFL came and left (twice). Baseball came and left. The Fury get around three hundred people coming out for PDL matches.

So you say Ottawa citizens would be willing to support a team? Excellent! Where are their fan sites? Where are their Sons of Ben? Where ar their Emerald City Supporters?

Strange as this may sound, but you don't need to come from the city to note its drawbacks for an MLS expansion team. Dobson isn't from Miami, Portland, or St. Louis but I don't recall you mentioning that when he weighed in with his opinion on those candidates.

Yeah! Where are their RPB! Wait... I seem to recall the RPB not actually being created until after the franchise was awarded and named... Strange... I guess Toronto must be a pretty shitty place to put an MLS team.

(I am aware that U-Sector was around before the team was announced, but they were created to support the Lynx, which means they are less relevant to the discussion on Ottawa. Also, I'm not even saying I think an Ottawa team is a good idea, but I do think that if someone is willing to invest that much for a team, they probably have some kind of market research to indicate they would be able to make a profit)

[T_Mizz]

Yeah...ummmm, so you say this but you're not willing to apply the same argument to the other cities in contention? Are Miami's backers any less financially shrewd? Does the group behind Portland's bid somehow have less know-how in sports ownership than Melnyk? Please answer me that.

Just because Melnyk has the money and vision, that doesn't mean the other candidates don't. You have to look at a much larger picture than just who can afford what.
I never meant it that way, I just meant that in this day and age everyone did their research and I meant it as a defense of the Ottawa bid not a jab at any other bid. They've all done their research which is why I believe no team would fall flat on their face

[greatwhitenorf]

Cashcleaner;

Melnyk isn't interested in groundsharing. If you've looked over other details of what he's proposing, he wants to put up his own stadium using part of the parking lots adjacent to the Senators arena. That helps to create some vertical intregration into his operation as it allows him to use the Scotiabank arena facilities to house soccer club offices and use the restaurant and catering facilities to service the soccer crowd.

If all he has to bang up in the short term is another BMO-calibre stadium, he's got that covered. He's actually planning to exceed those standards considerably. And sharing his new playpen with the CFL really doesn't factor into it since it will only tear up the grass pitch.

His main goal right now is to prevent Jeff Hunt and co. from having a clear field to run down to get civic money to rebuild Falling Down Lansdowne and to put some clear alternatives in front of potential corporate sponsors and those who would buy suites or premium season tickets.

All he really needs to do is shoot the tail feathers off the CFL project and he'll win. The profit margins and public fear of failure for the CFL project are so tight that they won't withstand even the slightest competition.

Melnyk is far more into this deal than anyone gives him credit for and giving a franchise to a nation's political capital is always a sound move for any league. Montreal will be made to suffer for their past uppity attitudes and granting Ottawa a team will ensure Vancouver gets a kick up the pants to get moving.

[ensco]

giving a franchise to a nation's political capital is always a sound move for any league.

Sorry but Ottawa's negatives are still pretty considerable from an MLS standup. Ottawa is a minor league city - full stop.

They still rely on the walk-up gate in almost every MLS market. Ask any US NHL team where the Senators rank as a draw. It's dead last for every team.

Plus Ottawa would be a serious negative as it relates to MLS' TV objectives. The big US markets give them something from an ESPN perspective, Canadian markets are just problems for national US TV.

Now if all of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver were all in MLS, you could really make a case for Ottawa, as you could start hoping for what the NHL has (which is serious Canadian TV money). But that's a long way off....

[Beach_Red]

These hockey-soccer comparisons are tough, though. The US has very little experience with any "foreign" teams but it's a big part of soccer, so they'll have to find a way to sell it if the sport is going to succeed. It's possible that soccer fans will be much more open to the idea of foreign teams than hockey or baseball fans are (of course, you'd think hockey fans would be more open...)

The real dream is is a seperate Canadian league - oh I can dream, can't I?!?!

[rocker]

he wants to put up his own stadium using part of the parking lots adjacent to the Senators arena.

what is Melnyk asking for from the government? Does he just need free land there, or is he asking for real $$$ to build the stadium?
I seem to remember a comment about him needing something from government, but I'm not sure what he meant -- cash/land/local infrastructure improvement...

[ensco]

These hockey-soccer comparisons are tough, though. The US has very little experience with any "foreign" teams but it's a big part of soccer, so they'll have to find a way to sell it if the sport is going to succeed. It's possible that soccer fans will be much more open to the idea of foreign teams than hockey or baseball fans are (of course, you'd think hockey fans would be more open...)

The real dream is is a seperate Canadian league - oh I can dream, can't I?!?!

I agree and disagree.

I do hope that someday a fixture with a Pachuca or an Independiente will be a bigger deal in this part of the world.

But Ottawa will never, ever be "foreign" in the US. It'll just be what it is - Rochester NY (yes they have the same population) with a parliament that no one south of the border (and few north of the border) cares about.

[Beach_Red]

I agree and disagree.

I do hope that someday a fixture with a Pachuca or an Independiente will be a bigger deal in this part of the world.

But Ottawa will never, ever be "foreign" in the US. It'll just be what it is - Rochester NY (yes they have the same population) with a parliament that no one south of the border (and few north of the border) cares about.


Rochester with a parliament - ouch! :D

Okay, can I dream of a day when it's like the NFL and the team could be from a little town in Wisconsin and no one in the home crowd would care as long as they bring a decent team?

Okay, that does seem like too much to hope for. More liekly what you'll see is a team in Ottawa or Vancouver that just very, very rarely gets on the game of the week on TV in the states.

As important as the team's draw on the road is, it pales in comparison these days to solid ownership at home. If there were a lot more strong, deep-pocketed ownership groups lined up, Ottawa's chances would go down, but if Melnyk says all the right things and shows the right financial statements, he's got a really good chance of getting in. Right now MLS wants to be growing and is just hoping to get to get to the next stage - whatever that is.

[Marc"2L"]

If you read the CBC article(http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/09/16/melnyk-mls-bid.html) that was posted about Melnyk's bid you can see a lot of the comments are ragging on the stadium placement.

NOBODY wants it in Kanata!
http://www.nooobody.com/images/home/solidgoldpromise.jpg

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

What the hell are you talking about?

Toronto, while obviously not the winningest sports capital in the world, is a great sports market:

- The Leafs are the most financially successful team in the NHL, and are impossible to get tickets for.

- The Raptors rank as around the 15th most financially successful team in the NBA, and about 15th in average attendance too - solidly in the middle of the lost. They also have a decent record of making the playoffs since the team was formed.

- Toronto FC is the crown jewel of MLS, as far as finances, attendance and atmosphere goes.

- The Blue Jays, while they have had some attendance problems since the player's strike, are on the up-and-up in terms of revenues, and have solid ownership in Rogers.

Ottawa is a total crap shoot. The Senators almost wen't broke only a few short years ago. Their CFL team has come and gone on more than one occasion.

Would I like to see Ottawa thrive as a sports city? Absolutely - the more the merrier. But the idea that these leagues should have passed over Toronto, in favour of Ottawa, is patently ridiculous. Toronto is the biggest sports market in Canada - Montreal is a close second.

Ottawa's sports history is spotty at best. I would take Vancouver before Ottawa, for an MLS franchise.

Personally, I really wish Montreal had stayed in the running. The road trips would have been incredible, and I'm certain the team would have been a success.

Your dislike for Toronto aggravates me.

- Scott


Blue jays are likley to be sold and Moved (hurrah) with Ted dead, Montreal
has lost the expos, express, Aloutees 2-3 times, Manic and you worried about Ottawa...ha!! CFL now really who cares the quicker that league dies the better. Your right TFC is the perfect franchise in Toronto,
its the only game in town.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

If you read the CBC article(http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/09/16/melnyk-mls-bid.html) that was posted about Melnyk's bid you can see a lot of the comments are ragging on the stadium placement.

NOBODY wants it in Kanata!
http://www.nooobody.com/images/home/solidgoldpromise.jpg


cbc sports anti Otawa propoganda,,,theres a shock!!:(

[Redcoe15]

OK, so everyone's talking about how Ottawa can actually pull this this off based on how they got an NHL franchise, for which Cyril Leeder was one of the main players then and now.

But I was in Ottawa in the fall of 1990, during which talks and speculation about landing an NHL team were heating up and reaching the boiling point. It was soon revealed, at the time, that would-be owner Bruce Firestone's group were under financed to start up and operate an NHL team. But the only reason they actually landed a team, along with Phil Esposito's band of grifters in Tampa, was that they were the only ones willing to agree to the NHL's method of paying their fees the way the league and president John Zeigler wanted, in one lump sum. Something the other bidders wern't willing to do (remember Hamilton's bid? They wanted to pay the fee in incriments, so the league told them to take a hike). Also, the $50 million dollar fee the NHL asked for was considered ridiculous back then as the league had nothing in the way of a U.S. network television deal, and that, a couple of years ealier, the more successful NBA was granting teams at a fee of $32 million dollars. Anyone remember that Ottawa native Paul Anka called Firestone's group to congratulate them on winning the bid and then they tried to convince him to become a major investor in the team. Wouldn't you have had that before you were granted a team?

A year or two later, Firestone bailed out on the Sens and Rod Bryden took control of the team. He spent the next ten years trying to keep the team from going under, going so far as to lobby Parliament for financial assistance to keep the Senators, and the other Canadian based teams, going after the plummeting dollar took out Quebec City and Winnipeg and nearly took out Edmonton. When that fell through, the Senators filed for bankruptcy and the team and the building were soon bought out by Eugene Melnyk for a song.

Now as far as Ottawa's MLS bid is concerned, you're looking at a fight between Melnyk and the group trying to bring a CFL team back a third time over a potential stadium being built in the region. Does anyone know for certain where the money for the proposed SSS in Kanata will come from? Will Melnyk pay out of his back pocket? Or will there be government assistance involved? If the latter comes into play, you have to think that it would come on the condition of a Canadian football field being put in place for a CFL team, soccer club or no. And we all know what we think about pointyball being played in an SSS. :prrr:

Let's be real here. Does anybody honestly think an MLS team in Ottawa would work, especially given where Melnyk's stadium would be located? Ottawa is a lousy sports market with so many teams from football, baseball, lacrosse, etc falling by the wayside. Even the Senators have had attendance problems in the past. Where's the soccer culture in Ottawa rising up to demand a team? And yeah, there was no RPB when Toronto was awarded a team, but there was U-Sector. Does Ottawa even have a supporters club of any significance?

As far as I'm concerned, Ottawa is not the place for MLS to expand to, Canada or no. I would much rather see a team in Vancouver and a team in Montreal, Saputo or not, over Ottawa. If they are interested in pro soccer, they should try for USL-1.

[CoachGT]

The latest Soccer Journal, a coaching magazine put out by the NSCAA, has an article about MLS. One of the points is that it was designed to help develop talent for the US national team, and points out that Canada really doesn't fit that objective. The author goes on to speak about the number of Canadian bids for expansion, and why there isn't a Canadian top flite league like everywhere else in the world.

I believe that money speaks louder than the original intent of MLS (if a developing ground for US players was a key factor - and that makes sense). Toronto has been a strong positive contributor to increased MLS revenues, and hopefully other Canadian based teams will help this continue. But the lack of top caliber Canadian talent and the domestic/international rules surrounding MLS create a real problem for Toronto and any future Canadian participants. Until Canada develops more top class (not necessarily world class) players, we may find other Canadian entries getting the short end of the expansion stick.

[BuSaPuNk]

^ Coach you are so right. There is just so much we can do domestically that it really doesn't fit what the US soccer association wants. They look at this league as a place to grow talent to put on there national team. Why would they want to allow Canada to do the same thing with "thier" league? lol.....I do believe that we will get another team mabey two....it's just a waiting game.

[Razcle]

COACH

I agree with your comments, but are we not developing american talent similar to the other american teams? Now there is a cap on the amount of US players that we can have on the team and we will never be in the same position as American teams to develop players for their national team. But by having Toronto FC and other well supported soccer towns in Canada, we will help to develop good americans where cities like Atlanta and Las Vagas and NY2 are doing shit for developing talent because the can't get themselves a franchaise.

[BuSaPuNk]

^ Thanks. Fixed. Not my fault I failed English!! lol

[jwfm1985]

Look Melnyk is a multi gagillionaire do you really think he made all that money by sinking millions into investments that he hasn't extensively researched? Do you think he's just doing this as a summer project? The man's in it to make a boatload of cash, he's certain he's going to do that, who are we to say otherwise?

Ummm, do you really think anyone makes "boatloads" of cash with a MLS franchise? Lets say he makes a couple Mill (MAX), that is still going to be nothing to him. I agree it is probably well researched, but making money is not his number 1 motivation.

[jwfm1985]

Blue jays are likley to be sold and Moved (hurrah) with Ted dead, Montreal
has lost the expos, express, Aloutees 2-3 times, Manic and you worried about Ottawa...ha!! CFL now really who cares the quicker that league dies the better. Your right TFC is the perfect franchise in Toronto,
its the only game in town.


uhh, not true. Ted has kids and they want to keep the Jays here.

[Razcle]

Ummm, do you really think anyone makes "boatloads" of cash with a MLS franchise? Lets say he makes a couple Mill (MAX), that is still going to be nothing to him. I agree it is probably well researched, but making money is not his number 1 motivation.


Actually...if you listened to his unveiling of the Ottawa bid, he said something along the lines of his parents meeting at a local Hungarian?? soccer club in Canada and he felt absolutely connected to the game because it pretty much gave him existance through them. Now I am sure he is in it to run the business properly and make a few bucks, but I think he is looking partially looking for a legacy in the Ottawa area. That is just what I read into it. Plus if MLS franchaises grow and the league really takes off, his 40 million franchaise fee could double or trip before he will want to get out of it. That is a good chunk of change all while providing a service to the community.

[Beach_Red]

Let's be real here. Does anybody honestly think an MLS team in Ottawa would work, especially given where Melnyk's stadium would be located?

The only real question is, does Eugene Melnyk honestly think an MLS team in Ottawa would work. If he's willing to put up the money, why not give it a try?

(I remember the NHL expansion so well, too. Ottawa promised the money upfront and only after they got awarded the franchise did they admit they couldn't do that and then they used Hamilton's finance plan almost exactly. I was living in Hamilton at the time ;), it was unpleasant).

[jwfm1985]

Actually...if you listened to his unveiling of the Ottawa bid, he said something along the lines of his parents meeting at a local Hungarian?? soccer club in Canada and he felt absolutely connected to the game because it pretty much gave him existance through them. Now I am sure he is in it to run the business properly and make a few bucks, but I think he is looking partially looking for a legacy in the Ottawa area. That is just what I read into it. Plus if MLS franchaises grow and the league really takes off, his 40 million franchaise fee could double or trip before he will want to get out of it. That is a good chunk of change all while providing a service to the community.

I dont get it, are you argreeing with me? I said that he is not in it primarily for the money, and therefore something else - e.g. "feeling connected to the game".

As for the fee double or tripling, that is not going to happen for a while. Certainly not quicker than other ventures an astute businessperson could buy right now for $40MM.

[Marc"2L"]

The only real question is, does Eugene Melnyk honestly think an MLS team in Ottawa would work. If he's willing to put up the money, why not give it a try?


Some people think MLS in Ottawa might work.
Nobody in Ottawa thinks MLS in Kanata will.

[Redcoe15]

The only real question is, does Eugene Melnyk honestly think an MLS team in Ottawa would work. If he's willing to put up the money, why not give it a try?
Then you'll end up with another Kansas City or Columbus. Cities with no support being propped up by rich owners.

[rocker]

Then you'll end up with another Kansas City or Columbus. Cities with no support being propped up by rich owners.

but what about RSL?
they get solid attendance in a town with a smaller pop than Ottawa.

And there was a time when Columbus had better attendances than many teams have now.
And KC played in a huge ugly stadium for most of its existence. We can see how teams that suck and play in such crappy stadiums can't really develop a large following.

I think if they built a decent 20000 stadium Ottawa could average 15,000. Not a bad number.

Anyhow, the genius of the MLS revenue sharing system is you don't need to be selling 20000 to succeed.

I don't mind testing the waters in Ottawa, as long as it's not at the expense of Vancouver. If it fails, they have a nice 20000 seat stadium for a USL team or the CFL ;)

[Marc"2L"]

I just google mapped the drive from where I live now to scotiabank place.

It's not as bad as I thought, but....

The problem I have with this bid isn't so much that their building the stadium too far away. It's that they have an absolutely PERFECT plot of land downtown surrounded by pubs.

There are easily 5 good pubs within 10 minute walking distance to Frank Clair. Instead they want to build it out in the middle of a fucking suburb surrounded by smart centre like stores.

I. Fucking. Hate. Smart. Centres.

[Waggy]

Blue jays are likley to be sold and Moved (hurrah) with Ted dead, Montreal
has lost the expos, express, Aloutees 2-3 times, Manic and you worried about Ottawa...ha!! CFL now really who cares the quicker that league dies the better. Your right TFC is the perfect franchise in Toronto,
its the only game in town.


Toronto has:

Rock averaging 15000 a game. To LACROSS. For a SHITE team.
Jays averaging 25000 a game (Montreal was what, 8000 by the end?)
Argos 30 000 (Ottawa was what, about 8000 by the end?)
Raptors 19000, and ACTUALLY there every game (the numbers released in most sports tend to be... spotty. While the raps may be middle of the pack by numbers in attendance, in terms of asses in the seats they're among the best.)
Buffalo Bills 50 000 (may not be a sellout, but you may have to refresh my memory last time Ottawa was tried out for an NFL franchise? And I guaran-damn-tee you if the tickets weren't 200 a pop it'd have sold out in 5 min)
Leafs/TFC, waiting list and prayers for tickets.


Ottawa has
The senators. Who only sell out when they're playing Montreal or Toronto. And have gone into bankrupcy protection twice. And an owner whose other brilliant investment was the St Mikes Majors. Which he did wonderful with. Trust me.

Buddy, what are you smoking? The only reason the Jays MIGHT get sold is because their owner DIED. Making it very different from the Ottawa Senators (part 1), Ottawa Linx, Ottawa Rough Riders, Ottawa Renegades, the short lived NLL team (I believe the tried twice actually? Anyone know?) and this semi pro soccer team I've never heard of. Yes. Clearly Ottawa is the sports capital of Canada.

Sorry if a bunch of you already responded to this asshole, but I couldnt wait to read any more

Ottawa has no stadium except the decrepid former home of the Renegades. The renovations to BC Place are unreal. Also BC place is in the MIDDLE of downtown. Also Vancouver already has a very successful (on and off the pitch) franchise. Vancouver has more backers, with more money. And probably more drive/interest in soccer (as opposed to seeing that the Leafs made money and want to copy them). Thats why Vancouvers a better bid. If you don't like it, keep crying. Saying its Toronto Bias doesn't change any of that.

[Beach_Red]

I don't mind testing the waters in Ottawa, as long as it's not at the expense of Vancouver. If it fails, they have a nice 20000 seat stadium for a USL team or the CFL ;)

It would be okay for Vancouver to stay in the USL and still play in the Canadian Championship and for Ottawa to join MLS.

[T_Mizz]

I dont get it, are you argreeing with me? I said that he is not in it primarily for the money, and therefore something else - e.g. "feeling connected to the game".

As for the fee double or tripling, that is not going to happen for a while. Certainly not quicker than other ventures an astute businessperson could buy right now for $40MM.
He's not "only" motivated by the money as he clearly is a guy who appreciates sports, and when he's able to make money off them that's an added bonus, and as much as he loves sports I'm sure no billionaire would buy a team if he knew it would lose him money

[Marc"2L"]

He's not "only" motivated by the money as he clearly is a guy who appreciates sports, and when he's able to make money off them that's an added bonus, and as much as he loves sports I'm sure no billionaire would buy a team if he knew it would lose him money

But he's probably banking on people coming out to Kanata, something that does happen for Hockey....

It's fucking Hockey and we're in Canada, of course people will come.
Soccer, not so much.

[Marc"2L"]

Ok, I'm done bitching about the stadium plan.

[T_Mizz]

True but I think we'll have to chalk this up to "wait and see" because he's so certain of it and other people are so certain that no one will come to his field of dreams out in that corn field known as kanata

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I'm not trusting Dobson anymore. He has been wrong more times than I care to remember in all sorts of regards. I remember how he gave us a GUARANTEE that we will be signing a DP in the near future more than once in the past. Maybe it was just MLSE giving him false info and using him as a marketing ploy during the season tickets renewal period but either way ... Ives Galarcep he is not.

I agree. I find it hard to believe any big news that comes from Dobson's mouth. I'm still peeved by how Dobson stated that Jonathan de Guzman would reveal his NT choice to him in an interview. I know it's important to keep footy fans interested, but a reporter can only pass speculation as fact so many times before fans start to tune him out.

For what its worth, I hope Gerry Dobson is right about Vancouver and Ottawa's expansion bids. I'm not going to hold out hope until Don Garber actually announces the winning bidders, though.

[GuelphStorm2007]

I think Van city is more deserving of a franchise than Ottawa.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I think Van city is more deserving of a franchise than Ottawa.

Based on the market and the team structure that already exists there, I agree with you. However, an expansion team in Ottawa would present Canada with an entirely new professional team. Our number of professional football teams would increase 33% overnight.

[Cashcleaner]

Yeah! Where are their RPB! Wait... I seem to recall the RPB not actually being created until after the franchise was awarded and named... Strange... I guess Toronto must be a pretty shitty place to put an MLS team.

(I am aware that U-Sector was around before the team was announced, but they were created to support the Lynx, which means they are less relevant to the discussion on Ottawa. Also, I'm not even saying I think an Ottawa team is a good idea, but I do think that if someone is willing to invest that much for a team, they probably have some kind of market research to indicate they would be able to make a profit)

Let's give credit where it's due on this. U-Sector had been keeping up with the bidding process and early news concerning Toronto FC before the team was announced. Regardless of what team they followed at the time, I think that gives them plenty of relevance to the discussion.

[Marc"2L"]

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne/layout_en-1.jpg
Please? I can't stress this enough!

[StandUpIfYouHateChelsea]

:D That would certainly make Ottawa look like a soccer town.

Is there any chance the stadium would still get built for a USL team? Be nice to see a team in Edmonton, too, someday.

are you kidding me ?? or was that a joke, why would they deserve a team when they couldn't even support there country , the only difference between edmonton and montreal is that in montreal , there was a smaller stadium..... could you imagine what it would have been like with no traveling canada fans???? yeah.......

[jwfm1985]

He's not "only" motivated by the money as he clearly is a guy who appreciates sports, and when he's able to make money off them that's an added bonus, and as much as he loves sports I'm sure no billionaire would buy a team if he knew it would lose him money


If I had a billion and had the chance to buy TFC knowing that it would break even, or lose me a few hundred thousand a year, I would buy it in a second.

i think if you asked owners of teams in the MLS, USL or even in Europe, they would tell you the same

[Oldtimer]

Anyhow, the genius of the MLS revenue sharing system is you don't need to be selling 20000 to succeed.


I for one, wouldn't be too happy if we end up subsidizing yet another sub-par franchise. I want a strong league that can afford a decent-sized salary cap, and bring in good players. There are already too many KCs in the league.

[rocker]

I for one, wouldn't be too happy if we end up subsidizing yet another sub-par franchise. I want a strong league that can afford a decent-sized salary cap, and bring in good players. There are already too many KCs in the league.

i would do it for Ottawa.

Anything to help Canadian soccer.

anyhow, the point of subsidization is that eventually those teams grow to be self-sufficient. It hasn't always worked but if, for example, KC's stadium works out and they start drawing 18000 a game, it will have worked out.

[Stryker]

Be nice to see a team in Edmonton, too, someday.

I moved out to Edmonton from Ontario a year and a half ago for work purposes. It'll probley be another year and abit before I can go back but Im counting the days. Edmonton may be a big city but believe me its still a redneck town. They have no interest in soccer here.
Edmonton wouldn't even be worthy of a USL team nevermind an MLS team. Hell Sportnet West doesn't even carry the TFC games Sportsnet Ontario airs. Its brutal.

[ensco]

Teams in Edmonton and Calgary (and Jacksonville and Hawaii) were total disasters in the NASL.

The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know: Ottawa fans, Peter Pocklington backed the Drillers.

[Beach_Red]

Eventually, every city was a disaster in the NASL.

Times change, things change. Edmonton and Calgary are both a lot different than they were twenty years ago, as is Toronto.

I'm going to continue to dream of a 10 team Canadian soccer league that draws as well in stadiums and on TV as the CFL.

[ensco]

Eventually, every city was a disaster in the NASL.

Times change, things change. Edmonton and Calgary are both a lot different than they were twenty years ago, as is Toronto.

I'm going to continue to dream of a 10 team Canadian soccer league that draws as well in stadiums and on TV as the CFL.

Where is BBtB when you need him?

This is a huge misconception. Look at these attendance statistics, and remember that in the last 4 years this was a 24 team league with about 10 teams, such as Edmonton and Hawaii, drawing 4,000 a game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League#Average_Attendance

The NASL failed for many reasons, but one of them was not the lack of strong teams and solid fan bases.

[Stryker]

I'm going to continue to dream of a 10 team Canadian soccer league that draws as well in stadiums and on TV as the CFL.

A lifetime away my friend. We'll be lucky if we live so long as to see it.

[Beach_Red]

Where is BBtB when you need him?


Where's jLoome when you need him ;). He might be along to tell us about Edmonton.

I was in Montreal for NASL (which was not one of the better franchises, but it also makes me doubt Montreal as a soccer town because as a city Montreal hasn't changed its make up as much in the past twenty years as Toronto, Calgary or Edmonton).

Maybe I'm just in a good mood, but I think the future is bright for soccer in North America and that includes Canada.

[Steve]

Let's give credit where it's due on this. U-Sector had been keeping up with the bidding process and early news concerning Toronto FC before the team was announced. Regardless of what team they followed at the time, I think that gives them plenty of relevance to the discussion.

Look, I understand what U-Sector did, and trust me, I have nothing but respect for them (I was officially a part of U-Sector for the first season, but then got seats in the north end, so changed to NEE). All I'm saying is that they had a group already set up before MLS was even on the horizon. That makes it a lot easier to organise and keep track of the bid than starting in a city with no groups at all. RPB didn't come together and begin to organise before the team was announced and named, why is that? Probably because that's when it really hit critical mass, that's when enough people were looking for similarly minded folks for it to make sense. All I'm saying is don't take Ottawa's lack of any kind of formal group to be some kind of condemnation of their fans.

[jvanpeebles]

Would love to see more Canadian content in the league. That bein said we must go forward with caution. Many leagues have failed in the past and wouldn't want to risk the amazing product we have in TO.

[RealG-TFC]

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne/layout_en-1.jpg
Please? I can't stress this enough!

Maybe:

http://www.lansdownelive.ca/images/gallery/stadiumaerial_large.jpg

[Cashcleaner]

Eventually, every city was a disaster in the NASL.

Times change, things change. Edmonton and Calgary are both a lot different than they were twenty years ago, as is Toronto.

I'm going to continue to dream of a 10 team Canadian soccer league that draws as well in stadiums and on TV as the CFL.

You and me both. Would be beyond awesome if we developed a competitive domestic league.

[Marc"2L"]

A lifetime away my friend. We'll be lucky if we live so long as to see it.

The government could fund a project to make soccer the summer sport in Canada.

I only say this because while working at a golf course in the summer we had a bunch of LSU alumni come up. We started talking sports and mentioned it's a shame that we don't play as much football as they do and specifically mentioned that we play soccer.....

So, build a few grass pitches and a few hard pitces in any city over 50 000 and do a bit of GOOD promotion about the benefits of the game.

Now, build a new NSS in Ottawa at Frank Clair that looks nothing like the cookie cutter American or Ikea boxed Canadian stadium(s).
:canada:

[Marc"2L"]

Maybe:

http://www.lansdownelive.ca/images/gallery/stadiumaerial_large.jpg
A) where did you find that?
b) Good god that's a child only a desperate Canadian soccer fan could love.

[Marc"2L"]

Nevermind, that's the CFL Stadium.

Sorry, you've had a chance. Did not work out so well.
Original red bull park please.

http://njmg.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/12/redbullpark.jpg

[T_Mizz]

If I had a billion and had the chance to buy TFC knowing that it would break even, or lose me a few hundred thousand a year, I would buy it in a second.

i think if you asked owners of teams in the MLS, USL or even in Europe, they would tell you the same
Exactly my point he's done his research, concluded that he's able to at the very least break even, and he's going for it.
I was actually going to bring up the fact that most guys here would jump at the chance to buy our beloved TFC given Melnyk's finances, etc.

[Cashcleaner]

The government could fund a project to make soccer the summer sport in Canada.

I only say this because while working at a golf course in the summer we had a bunch of LSU alumni come up. We started talking sports and mentioned it's a shame that we don't play as much football as they do and specifically mentioned that we play soccer.....

So, build a few grass pitches and a few hard pitces in any city over 50 000 and do a bit of GOOD promotion about the benefits of the game.

Now, build a new NSS in Ottawa at Frank Clair that looks nothing like the cookie cutter American or Ikea boxed Canadian stadium(s).
:canada:

Thats the sort of scenario I was imagining when news of Ottawa bid was first announced. By the sound of his proposal, it seemed like Melnyk wanted the Ottawa cub to be sort of like the second Canadian national team and with the new stadium taking over more CSA matches from Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Where Melnyk is going right is trying to convince Ottawa that the dream of another CFL franchise is untenable, so the best course of action is to push for soccer and MLS as the alternative to gridiron as the summer sport of choice in the capital.