Pablo Vitti is the new South American Striker [Archive] - Page 2

Rudi

01-20-2009, 01:19 PM

It had to be a cost cutting move. No other explanation for it.
Actually, if you remember just how many reserve games were cancelled or postponed the past couple of years, that's your explanation.

I have a feeling we'll see the reserve league come back soon (possibly as soon as next year), but I believe MLS is trying to work its way around the int'l window before bringing it back.

Dirk Diggler

01-20-2009, 02:49 PM

The guy doesn't seem to have an amazing pedigree but props to Mo for looking outside of his usual realm (i.e. UK) and taking a well deserved chance on a promising youngster. If the guy doesn't pan out, that is perfectly fine in my opinion since he isn't that big of a risk anyways ... depending on how much we will be paying him. With that said, I still think that we need a PROVEN goal scorer and a solid defender if we fancy our chances next year.

FOGES

01-20-2009, 03:17 PM

i think in light of his bio we need to consider his past (well rated), his present (???) and where we want him to be (gol, gol, gol). i believe vitti can succeed with TFC, but i think its a question of motivation. for a guy like this he can reach heights and re-invent himself with the right desire. it was great to see RR10 find confidence and have a solid season last year. Im sure vitti will meet or exceed expectations playing in the same venue his countrymen put on a master-class in '07

ensco

01-20-2009, 03:35 PM

Actually, if you remember just how many reserve games were cancelled or postponed the past couple of years, that's your explanation.

I have a feeling we'll see the reserve league come back soon (possibly as soon as next year), but I believe MLS is trying to work its way around the int'l window before bringing it back.

You're right about the fact that the logistics of reserve games were difficult/annoying, but....

I'll bet you a scarf it doesn't come back. The reserve league costs each team hundreds of thousands of dollars, and produces no revenue. It's easy (but short sighted) to see it as expendable if you're in a cost-cutting environment.

Lucky Strike

01-20-2009, 03:39 PM

Because you know... teams should be setting these kinds of things up for their kids (and the leagues upcoming players) on their own.

I'm sorry but anyway I look at this, it's just terrible for the progression of the league.

For sure, no question there. I happen to think there ought to be a reserve league, but given the current situaton, that was just an idea to throw out there y'know?

Jeff s

01-20-2009, 04:06 PM

I dont know if its been mentioned, but he scored against us and against Columbus during their trip. He already knows how to score against MLS teams :D

Anyways, from what I can remember, he did very well against us. Hard working player with some technique. I say give this one a chance.

Rudi

01-20-2009, 04:11 PM

You're right about the fact that the logistics of reserve games were difficult/annoying, but....

I'll bet you a scarf it doesn't come back. The reserve league costs each team hundreds of thousands of dollars, and produces no revenue. It's easy (but short sighted) to see it as expendable if you're in a cost-cutting environment.
I'll take that bet. What's the statute of limitations? :cool:

MLS won't be in a cost-cutting environment forever. With added importance being placed on teams' academies (as time goes on), the reserve league is just a natural extension of that. Young, hot shot players that are good enough to graduate from the academy and make the roster of the big club but not quite good enough to start will need a place to develop.

Jeff s

01-20-2009, 04:18 PM

I'll take that bet. What's the statute of limitations? :cool:

statue... statue of limitations
http://www.seinfeldonline.com/kramer2.jpg

ensco

01-20-2009, 04:56 PM

I'll take that bet. What's the statute of limitations? :cool:

I say it won't restart in 2009 or 2010 or 2011

jloome

01-20-2009, 07:48 PM

I say it won't restart in 2009 or 2010 or 2011

We won't see a reserve league again in MLS until the youth academies are all established and producing. So, like, five to 10 years.

loconet

01-21-2009, 11:41 AM

I'm actually pleased with this signing. I watched him play when Independiente came and he looked pretty solid. Good positioning, strong player.

Now, where is/are my CB(s) :D

Pachuco

01-21-2009, 12:43 PM

I'm actually pleased with this signing. I watched him play when Independiente came and he looked pretty solid. Good positioning, strong player.

Now, where is/are my CB(s) :D

This guy is not signed yet ;) I think we all learned our lesson last year about not counting our chickens before their hatched. Can you say Kiki? come on let's say it all together KIKI!!!

Pigfynn

01-21-2009, 12:50 PM

I really hope we don't get kikied on this one.

oh yes I did:)

rocker

01-21-2009, 12:55 PM

Pachuco

01-21-2009, 01:04 PM

Actually, with Kiki Musampa the trial process and cap limits worked magnificently for us :) TFC realized he was only worth a certain, much lower price, and he split as a result.... only getting a few games at Fc Seoul before Seoul released him.

All I'm saying is, We could be as far away from Vitti as we were from Kiki (shit that's like a tongue twister). Kiki was playing on our roster as part of pre-season, and so most of us thought it was a lock. For all we know this guy is asking for more money then Mo is willing to pay. I realize it's a loan, but you just never know.

Razcle

01-21-2009, 02:13 PM

What are his other options right now...sounds like the kid needs some minutes and we are willing to pay him for them. I don't think he could be demanding too much expecially since the Agrentine Currancy is so low comparitely.

UltraSuperMegaMo

01-21-2009, 02:22 PM

I’m hoping Vitti is a surprise part of the press conference on Thursday. Didn’t someone in this thread somewhere suggest that he’s in town?

H Bomb

01-22-2009, 03:27 PM

haaahahaha, good ol mo....Independiente are "holding up" the deal

dantdot

01-22-2009, 05:39 PM

In the presser, Mo said "can we sign him? possibly." Doesn't sound very optimistic to me.

Yohan

01-22-2009, 05:47 PM

lol. this seems to happen whenever there is a leak about possible signing

Beach_Red

01-22-2009, 05:50 PM

^ There's a leak, people get excited, the guy's agent raises the price....

Pachuco

01-22-2009, 06:34 PM

Doesn't seem to me like we're signing this kid, thankfully I for once didn't get excited ahead of time.

Ossington Mental Youth

01-22-2009, 08:23 PM

Ech, brutal, so fucking frustrating

Keyman

01-22-2009, 08:38 PM

Send Independiente a giant tub of maple syrup, Celine Dion and some cheap drugs. That'll solve everything!

Ossington Mental Youth

01-22-2009, 08:44 PM

well if Vitti doesnt come, i guess formations will be a bit easier to guess.
Prob 4-5-1
Ech.
Still'd prefer to see him signed here

jloome

01-22-2009, 11:13 PM

I wonder if Independiente wants a transfer fee or something.

Shaughno

01-22-2009, 11:14 PM

Isn't it supposed to be a loan? Maybe they want us to cover part of his salary?

Ossington Mental Youth

01-22-2009, 11:28 PM

I bet they wantto sell him and not loan him, we obviously cant buy until the endof the loan

Ossington Mental Youth

01-22-2009, 11:29 PM

from my understanding hes a surplus there and prob want him off the books all together

jazz_trumpet

01-23-2009, 12:04 AM

Pachuco

01-23-2009, 12:13 AM

Independiente isn't the people we're dealing with. If you look on their website, he's not listed on the roster. Mo is dealing with Chornomorets Odessa.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chornomorets_Odessa)

He's on lone from Independiente. That's who we are dealing with. Mo even said specifically "Independiente" in the press conference.

UltraSuperMegaMo

01-23-2009, 12:17 AM

I can’t see him on Chornomorets Odessa’s website either:

http://chernomorets.odessa.ua/team/first_team/

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 12:31 AM

yeah he was on loan at chornomorets but has since come back

UltraSuperMegaMo

01-23-2009, 12:49 AM

I just watched the press conference, it’s clearly Independiente TFC is dealing with. I think your assumption that how much of his wages TFC will be covering is most likely the issue.

I assume / hope Mo has a plan B (maybe even C and D). The thing about Vitti that I liked was that he’s a "good age" so to speak. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have to end up settling on an older player.

Anyone have any idea what a Chornomoret is? Ukrainian for time machine maybe? Vitti’s mentioned as not having his contract extended in this article:

http://en.prichernomorie.com.ua/odessa/news/Sports/2008-12-05/1836.php

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 01:07 AM

Anyone have any idea what a Chornomoret is? Ukrainian for time machine maybe?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

devioustrevor

01-23-2009, 02:11 AM

Anyone have any idea what a Chornomoret is? Ukrainian for time machine maybe?

Chornoe More is the Ukranian name for the Black Sea.

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 02:57 AM

Chornoe More is the Ukranian name for the Black Sea.

I kinda liked the other theory better.
Its a pretty dope name tho

Shakes McQueen

01-23-2009, 04:25 AM

haaahahaha, good ol mo....Independiente are "holding up" the deal

Sadly, I think this may be the Toronto media's fault. Word got out about the deal, and now Vitti's agent probably want's a better deal.

- Scott

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 04:26 AM

i dunno if id go that far but fingers crossed it still works out

ensco

01-23-2009, 07:08 AM

Sadly, I think this may be the Toronto media's fault. Word got out about the deal, and now Vitti's agent probably want's a better deal.

- Scott

Umm, be serious. This isn't Woodward and Bernstein stuff. There is no chance anyone in the media would learn of this, unless it was deliberately leaked to him. That's how it got out.

The only question is whether it was Independiente, or the agent, who did it.

Shakes McQueen

01-23-2009, 07:19 AM

Umm, be serious. This isn't Woodward and Bernstein stuff. There is no chance anyone in the media would learn of this, unless it was deliberately leaked to him. That's how it got out.

The only question is whether it was Independiente, or the agent, who did it.

Okay, it was Vitti's agent, and not the media. Rest of my point still essentially stands. :D

- Scott

ensco

01-23-2009, 07:22 AM

Okay, it was Vitti's agent, and not the media. Rest of my point still essentially stands. :D

- Scott

Agreed :D

But it could be any of the club, the player or the agent who leaked it. I've suspected in the past that Mo himself has once or twice leaked this kind of stuff, just to show the supporters and the suits that he's trying.

In this case I'd wager it was the agent or the club, because Mo is still feeling his way in South America.

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 08:22 AM

I think Mo would have only leaked it if it was a certain thing unless hes got a flair for the dramatic

Stouffville_RPB

01-23-2009, 08:23 AM

Send Independiente a giant tub of maple syrup, Celine Dion and some cheap drugs. That'll solve everything!

You don't send cheap drugs to South America, they send them here.

brad

01-23-2009, 09:21 AM

Isn't it supposed to be a loan? Maybe they want us to cover part of his salary?

Could be the salary issue. They might also want a fee for loaning us the player (some clubs will do that), or it could be negotiating the purchase price post loan (if the MLS do insist on this).

brad

01-23-2009, 09:24 AM

I wouldn't get too excited either way on Vitti.

It's possible that they've hit some impass and he won't be coming. It's equally possible that they are negotiating and Mo just used the media as a tool to convey a lack of interest.

This is pretty standard in the transfer market.

Shaughno

01-23-2009, 09:25 AM

Yup, could be games from either side really.

bgnewf

01-23-2009, 09:28 AM

Is'nt it kind of ironic that all of Mo’s “scouting trips” to South America led him to try and land a striker that actually played at BMO Field in a friendly last season??? So if our targets are players that have played in friendlies maybe there is someone on Pachuca we might be targetting. Perhaps Villa???? http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/smile.gif

Well done Mo. The trips south of the equator apparently paid off. Your tan looked real good on TV yesterday by the way!!!

And as far as the deal itself goes I don't know what to think about the fact that Mo spoke about Vitti, and confirmed the scuttlebutt out there about him being a target for us. Does confirming the rumour actually mean the deal is dead??? I would think that it does. Does trying to apparently blame Independiente for the snag actually help negotiations? If that is what passes for a negotiation strategy Mo, then you have a hell of a lot to learn!

Ossington Mental Youth

01-23-2009, 09:43 AM

I knew the contents of your post before it was even read

bgnewf

01-23-2009, 09:58 AM

I knew the contents of your post before it was even read

Thanks.....I think. :)

I certainly have not hidden my feelings about Mo and that i don;t think he is the guy to build this club into a long term contender. The way he does business just confuses me time after time after time. This is just another example.

Beach_Red

01-23-2009, 10:06 AM

^ Well, looking at what's going on in San Jose these days, if it really did come down to Mo or Yallop, TFC made the right choice.

brad

01-23-2009, 10:10 AM

Thanks.....I think. :)

I certainly have not hidden my feelings about Mo and that i don;t think he is the guy to build this club into a long term contender. The way he does business just confuses me time after time after time. This is just another example.

Did you ever consider the fact that Mo may have identified him as a target based on his performances against us and the Crew - and that the whole point of his trip may been either to get another look at him?
Or that the whole point was to to meet with Independiente officials face to face?
Or that he scouted other players while down there and identified Vitti as his number one target?
Or that he has other targets from that trip lined up that he may pursue if Vitti falls through?
Or that he was scouting center backs while there?
Or is this just Mo bashing?

bgnewf

01-23-2009, 10:26 AM

Did you ever consider the fact that Mo may have identified him as a target based on his performances against us and the Crew - and that the whole point of his trip may been either to get another look at him?

Yes. But considering the player is in Ukraine I believe, that argument does not make sense.

Or that the whole point was to to meet with Independiente officials face to face?

Yes I considered this too. Perhaps he did meeet with them. Perhaps not. But calling them out in a presser yesterday as the impediment to a deal does not to me look like a sound negotiation strategy.

Or that he scouted other players while down there and identified Vitti as his number one target?

Again, who knows. But only one target has been identified and acknowledged.

Or that he has other targets from that trip lined up that he may pursue if Vitti falls through?

I will believe it when I see it.

Or that he was scouting center backs while there?

See answer above....

Or is this just Mo bashing?

With all due respect criticizing Mo for what I believe are his faults and failings is not bashing. I have on this and other supporters groups boards given him credit where I feel it is due. He deserves credit for signing DeRo, for some of the draft picks he has made and for some of the trades he has made to increase the allocation dollars and draft picks we can work with.

But I strongly feel that his defeciencies far outweigh his abilities. You may disagree and that's cool, but don't, with all due respect, think that criticism and bashing are the same thing.

rocker

01-23-2009, 10:26 AM

Did you ever consider the fact that Mo may have identified him as a target based on his performances against us and the Crew - and that the whole point of his trip may been either to get another look at him?
Or that the whole point was to to meet with Independiente officials face to face?
Or that he scouted other players while down there and identified Vitti as his number one target?
Or that he has other targets from that trip lined up that he may pursue if Vitti falls through?
Or that he was scouting center backs while there?
Or is this just Mo bashing?

sadly, it's an ideology. so when the facts match the ideology, the rant comes out. Other possibilities or facts that don't match the ideology are thrown away because they don't match the ideology.

Eastend

01-23-2009, 10:27 AM

And as far as the deal itself goes I don't know what to think about the fact that Mo spoke about Vitti, and confirmed the scuttlebutt out there about him being a target for us. Does confirming the rumour actually mean the deal is dead??? I would think that it does. Does trying to apparently blame Independiente for the snag actually help negotiations? If that is what passes for a negotiation strategy Mo, then you have a hell of a lot to learn!

...but this kind of posturing goes on all the time in football deals/transfers and the like....it's nothing new. I personally think Mo is getting a passing grade so far this off season.

Ben - D.O.W.

01-23-2009, 11:21 AM

Yes I considered this too. Perhaps he did meeet with them. Perhaps not. But calling them out in a presser yesterday as the impediment to a deal does not to me look like a sound negotiation strategy.

Yeah I mean that didn't work for us at all with Chad Barrett and the Chicago Fire/Brian McBride situation. Oh wait...

jazz_trumpet

01-23-2009, 11:33 AM

Here's Vitti's page on the Chernomorets Odessa site:

http://www.chernomorets.com/main/players/player.aspx?id=1743

Stryker

01-23-2009, 11:39 AM

Yeah I mean that didn't work for us at all with Chad Barrett and the Chicago Fire/Brian McBride situation. Oh wait...
But lets not forget that Barrett (who Im happy to have) was not our first and likely not even our second choice.

Stouffville_RPB

01-23-2009, 11:49 AM

Barrett is 23/24 years old and can't play a full 90 because he gets muscle cramps. We need someone who can play a full match.

Beach_Red

01-23-2009, 11:52 AM

But lets not forget that Barrett (who Im happy to have) was not our first and likely not even our second choice.

Right, we kept going till we got something. Just like Mo kept going after DeRo even though, apparently, the guy turned him down and Houston turned him down, probably many times.

I'm not sure how people think negotiations work?

Stryker

01-23-2009, 11:55 AM

Right, we kept going till we got something. Just like Mo kept going after DeRo even though, apparently, the guy turned him down and Houston turned him down, probably many times.

I'm not sure how people think negotiations work?

No I have no idea. Can you please type out a long and detailed explaination?
Thanks.

*leaves thread*

Ben - D.O.W.

01-23-2009, 12:20 PM

But lets not forget that Barrett (who Im happy to have) was not our first and likely not even our second choice.

Oh I know - but I'm not really refering to getting our first choice player here, as much as how calling Chicago out in the media seemed to get this trade going again after it seemed to be stalled for weeks.

Nomad

01-23-2009, 12:28 PM

Oh I know - but I'm not really refering to getting our first choice player here, as much as how calling Chicago out in the media seemed to get this trade going again after it seemed to be stalled for weeks.

Wasn't it the other way around?

Eastend

01-23-2009, 12:30 PM

Barrett is 23/24 years old and can't play a full 90 because he gets muscle cramps. We need someone who can play a full match.

I think that with a full offseason with Winsper this will change and he'll be much better....there was a difference from year 1 to 2 with most of the team because of him....

Ben - D.O.W.

01-23-2009, 12:32 PM

Wasn't it the other way around?

I could be remembering this wrong but I seem to recall Johnston going to the media and saying that Chicago was holding this deal up. Could be wrong though - anyone remember this better?

S_D

01-23-2009, 01:21 PM

yep it was the other way around

1) Chicago came out first saying that Toronto should do the right thing and let them have McBride without having to give up the farm.

2) Mo said well you ain't getting him for free :) and that he wouldn't be able to look at the team in the eye if it was the playoffs and Mcbride got the winning goal without getting anybody significant in return.

3) Chicago then said that Toronto kept changing the deal and demanded several players. Paul chimed in here and said they made an offer to Chicago on who they wanted and were awaiting their decision. Chicago then dragged it's feet and didn't close the deal until after we had played them.

And about Barrett, it wasn't a conditioning thing. The man just sweats like a pig and cramps up. Apparently towards the end of last season they had figured out the solution, and I am sure he was playing the full 90 in the last few games.

Stouffville_RPB

01-23-2009, 01:27 PM

I think that with a full offseason with Winsper this will change and he'll be much better....there was a difference from year 1 to 2 with most of the team because of him....

I truly hope so.

shwade

01-23-2009, 01:29 PM

Chicago complained to the league that Toronto wasn't trading McBride's rights.

joel

01-23-2009, 02:36 PM

And about Barrett, it wasn't a conditioning thing. The man just sweats like a pig and cramps up. Apparently towards the end of last season they had figured out the solution, and I am sure he was playing the full 90 in the last few games.

Yeah that's what he said, and he did complete a lot of games at the end, he only left early when he got injured.

DOMIN8R

01-23-2009, 02:53 PM

And about Barrett, it wasn't a conditioning thing. The man just sweats like a pig and cramps up. Apparently towards the end of last season they had figured out the solution, and I am sure he was playing the full 90 in the last few games.

I'm not sure about that. Word was that Barrett received little or no conditioning or proper training in Shitcago. As a consequence, he was not really fit to play 90.

jloome

01-23-2009, 05:05 PM

I'm not sure about that. Word was that Barrett received little or no conditioning or proper training in Shitcago. As a consequence, he was not really fit to play 90.

Barrett said this himself. It's a combination of the two things: improper training combined with cramping due to excess sweating. They got him on some electrolyte balancing liquids towards the end of the season and he went 90 minutes at least once.

Jack

01-23-2009, 05:18 PM

Barrett said this himself. It's a combination of the two things: improper training combined with cramping due to excess sweating. They got him on some electrolyte balancing liquids towards the end of the season and he went 90 minutes at least once.

I spoke to him at the jersey unveiling and he said he had quite the off-season training program on the go.

Marco2K

01-23-2009, 06:48 PM

Lets hope so. He is a huge piece of this team and I love what he brings to the table.

Pachuco

01-24-2009, 12:16 AM

^ Well, looking at what's going on in San Jose these days, if it really did come down to Mo or Yallop, TFC made the right choice.

Really? compare TFC's first year in the league to San Jose's first year in the league. I'm not saying Yallop is the right choice. Just saying, the season hasn't started and San Jose is in no bigger whole then we were in year one offseason.

rocker

01-24-2009, 10:00 AM

Beach_Red

01-24-2009, 10:26 AM

^ That's what I was talking about.

Pachuco

01-24-2009, 11:25 AM

the funny thing with San Jose is their 7 point improvement on our first season was basically based on players TFC identified first. We had Ronnie, and we had the discovery on Huckerby. So two guys that contributed so much to San Jose were players identified by Mo Johnston.

and with Lima and Ronnie now gone, and really no big additions, I'm not sure they will improve this year. plus they haven't drafted much in 2 seasons.. just 3 guys over 8 rounds. i wonder what their long term plan is?

Yeap I agree. All I am saying is our big additions in year 2 came 3 games into the MLS season. We can't assume they are not making any moves. So if you compare the two teams at year 2 (at this exact point in time), were were just as screwed as them. In fact, we had lost Ronnie just like they did and we were left wondering who the heck we were going to sign.

TFCREDNWHITE

01-24-2009, 02:29 PM

Whats the latest word on Pablo Vitti??? Is there any new happenings??

Pachuco

01-24-2009, 03:27 PM

Whats the latest word on Pablo Vitti??? Is there any new happenings??

He's on his way to Cambodia to sign with their B League. Apparantly he likes the weather there ;)

ensco

01-24-2009, 04:27 PM

Whats the latest word on Pablo Vitti??? Is there any new happenings??

Chornomorets are playing exhibition games in Turkey now. 4 games so far. Vitti hasn't scored in any of them. You can't tell if he played or dressed.

http://ukrainianfootball.com/?controller=publication&action=item&id=78340

dantdot

01-24-2009, 04:59 PM

Pachuco

01-25-2009, 10:36 AM

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16774234&postcount=22

Some interesting comments from a Independiente supporter, supposedly he's training with the u20s(yes, he is 23 though), and I assume that loan is finished.

hmm...Argentina is in Venezuela right playing in the U20 South American qualifiers. I'm not sure how much truth there is to what this person is saying.