O'Brian White [Archive] - Red Patch Boys Forums

Razcle

01-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Since he is in the MLS Draft and has spent some time developing his game here in Toronto (attended highschool in Scarborough), I am wondering what his current national status would be if TFC selected in the superdraft? I have heard comments that he has been capped by Jamaica and have heard other comments that this was in a junior torunament meaning he is not cap-tied to any nation ATM. Can someone please clarify what his status would be in the MLS with TFC and/or his FIFA status with Canada. Also, it would be nice to back up any comments with facts/dates of when he apparently was Cap-tied with Jamaica. I am just lost when it comes to him....

Profile Detail

O'Brian Whitehttp://www.mlsdraft.net/images/nationality/Canadian.gif

http://www.mlsdraft.net/images/profiles/11.pjpeg
Birthdate: 1985-12-15 23 years old.Position: StrikerDraft Class: 2009Height: 6'0Weight: 180College: UConnLast years Hermann Trophy winner is off to another great season and is expected to be the top striker for the 2008 draft. I wouldn’t be surprised if whoever takes him wants him to be a starting striker from the start of the season. His speed and strength is what makes him such an attacking force in the NCAA and all the scouts wonder if he can still have that kind of advantage in the MLS where everyone is stronger and quicker.

Expect him to be a top 5 pick as long as he continues on the same pace as his '07 season (23 Goals, 7 Assists)

2007 Hermann Trophy winner
2007 BIG EAST Offensive Player of the Year
2006 & 2007 First Team All-BIG EAST
2005 BIG EAST Rookie of the Year

http://www.mlsdraft.net/?q=node/9&id=11

arbogast

01-13-2009, 03:33 PM

He went to high school in Canada, but I've read (http://mlsdraft.net/?q=node/88)that he doesn't have a CDN Passport, and he's a Jamaican Citizen. That would make him an international unless he can get his CDN paperwork in order.

deltox

01-13-2009, 03:35 PM

he is eligable to play for Canada and jamaica.

he has yet to make the decision on which country to play for

arbogast

01-13-2009, 03:43 PM

he is eligable to play for Canada and jamaica.

he has yet to make the decision on which country to play for

He's 23, and you have to decide before your 21st birthday. So I don' think he can play for Canada.

Oldtimer

01-13-2009, 03:47 PM

He has landed immigrant status in Canada, so he counts as domestic for TFC, regardless of his national team status.

Oblio2

01-13-2009, 03:55 PM

He's 23, and you have to decide before your 21st birthday. So I don' think he can play for Canada.

I have never heard this before.
You can take as long as you want to decide

T_Mizz

01-13-2009, 04:10 PM

I have never heard this before.
You can take as long as you want to decide
Exactly, you may be thinking of JDG2 because he was good enough to get caps from either nation at the age of 21

arbogast

01-13-2009, 04:34 PM

I have never heard this before.
You can take as long as you want to decide

He's been capped by Jamaica at the U21 level. Because of that, he would have had to declare his intention or be capped by Canada before his 21st birthday. if he hadn't played for jamaica or canada, he can take as long as he wants.

arbogast

01-13-2009, 04:35 PM

Exactly, you may be thinking of JDG2 because he was good enough to get caps from either nation at the age of 21
yeah but he didn't play for any nation until he got his Dutch passport. that's the difference. OW has already been capped.

Shway

01-13-2009, 04:44 PM

I have never heard this before.
You can take as long as you want to decide

Neither have i:noidea: then that would me Juventus Amauri is still debating to play for Italy or Brazil at 20?(hes 28)

Where did you hear this from, maybe its new to me :shocked:

TFC07

01-13-2009, 04:44 PM

I got this quote from BigSoccer:

(9) 2007 Hermann Trophy winner O’Brien White told the Toronto Sun that he would like to start his professional career at Toronto FC, but if that doesn’t come to pass, his agent has already lined up some opportunities in Europe.

Broadview

01-13-2009, 04:45 PM

Do NCAA teams red shirt soccer players like they do football and basketball players? Even for seniors a lot of these guys seem kinda old. Not old like I'm old, but you know what I mean...

Shway

01-13-2009, 04:46 PM

^^sure he does, lol

Shway

01-13-2009, 04:47 PM

Do NCAA teams red shirt soccer players like they do football and basketball players? Even for seniors a lot of these guys seem kinda old. Not old like I'm old, but you know what I mean...

yea they do redshirt guys for soccer, it gets based on your COllege year and your Eligibilty year so a guy can be college year senior but eligible year junior

VPjr

01-13-2009, 04:54 PM

Razcle, it appears your question has been answered but I will make it unequivical...

O'Brian White will never be capped by Canada. He is cap tied to Jamaica.

MLS strange residency rules does allow him to be considered a domestic player, which I think is a farce and detrimental to the development of actual Canadian talent.

I_AM_CANADIAN

01-13-2009, 05:26 PM

From the article I read in Monday's Toronto Sun, I got the impression he was still available to play for Canada. Owen Hargreaves didn't play for England at the youth level, either.

FIFA documents I could find regarding rules governing eligibility to play for a national association:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/ps_877_en_89.pdf

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/circularno.1147-eligibilitytoplayforrepresentativeteams_55197.pdf

Quote to highlight from the second document

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21st birthday, and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:

(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition at "A" international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.U-21 internationals are not full internationals. Therefore, he's not cap-tied to Jamaica. In the article I read, O'Brian also said he's not sure who he'd like to play for at the full international level.

TFC07

01-13-2009, 05:40 PM

Is White even good enough to play for Canada?

TFC OZZ

01-13-2009, 05:41 PM

TFC OZZ

01-13-2009, 05:44 PM

Is White even good enough to play for Canada?

Marco Reda and Adam Braz were...:D

jloome

01-13-2009, 05:45 PM

This conversation seems like it came from a thread a few months ago:

1) he's torn his ACL and likely won't go top 10 as a result.
2) He's already said he'll choose Jamaica even though he could be eligible for Canada, based on residency.
3) He has already said he'll test Europe if he doesn't get an MLS deal he likes.

Big Bruva

01-13-2009, 08:14 PM

RedsYNWA

01-13-2009, 08:18 PM

White sucks and will never amount to anything beyond the Norwegian league

I_AM_CANADIAN

01-13-2009, 08:28 PM

Does it even matter if Messi could play for Canada if he never wants to?

OB has no intentions of playing for Canada like i have said in the past.

He is Jamaican through and through and only wants to represent them.
Aye, he can play wherever he wants; he's his own person and has legitimate reasons for wanting to play for both countries, unlike a certain Owen Hargreaves and Jonathan De Guzman. Just clarifying the FIFA rules. ;)

Big Bruva

01-13-2009, 08:50 PM

Yeah i hear ya.

Let me ask you this, do you think Canada takes the worlds biggest sport as anywhere near as seriously as it should be taken?

In regards to the association doing things that will improve the development of Canadian players and make this sport much bigger than it is etc

Aye, he can play wherever he wants; he's his own person and has legitimate reasons for wanting to play for both countries, unlike a certain Owen Hargreaves and Jonathan De Guzman. Just clarifying the FIFA rules. ;)

TOBOR !

01-13-2009, 08:58 PM

and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.

Did he have landed iimigrant status at the time he played for Jamaica ? Is that the same thing as 'Nationality'? I'm sure that it's not.

TOBOR !

01-13-2009, 09:09 PM

... add him as a friend - get inside his head :

http://www.facebook.com/people/OBrian-White/9022772

Beach_Red

01-13-2009, 09:14 PM

Ossington Mental Youth

01-13-2009, 11:26 PM

Does it even matter if Messi could play for Canada if he never wants to?

OB has no intentions of playing for Canada like i have said in the past.

He is Jamaican through and through and only wants to represent them.

totally agree with this.
the benefits outweight the negatives.
Dude has potential and counts as a canadian.
Who gives a shit whether or not he plays for the national team

reggie

01-13-2009, 11:30 PM

i would be pissed if mo does not draft him...

rocker

01-14-2009, 12:20 AM

i would be pissed if mo does not draft him...

what if mo drafts White and the guy sucks?

JonO

01-14-2009, 09:05 AM

Aye, he can play wherever he wants; he's his own person and has legitimate reasons for wanting to play for both countries, unlike a certain Owen Hargreaves and Jonathan De Guzman. Just clarifying the FIFA rules. ;)
Not to derail this into another one of those threads, but I'm trying to figure out why you think only some people are "their own person". Also, who gets to decide what are "legitimate" reasons?

I don't know enough about the Hargreaves situation, but is Jonathan deGuzman not his own person with legitimate reasons for wanting to play for both countries?

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 11:31 AM

what if mo drafts White and the guy sucks?

I have played against OB quite a few time, very smart player offensivley.

I_AM_CANADIAN

01-14-2009, 11:57 AM

Jonathan de Guzman was born in Toronto to Caribbean/Filipino parents, going to play for... the Netherlands, which until he moved there to play for Feyenoord, he had nothing to do with. Owen Hargreaves was born in Canada and lived there until as a teen he left to play for Bayern in Germany. He played for the Welsh youth teams and was available for any one of the 'Home Countries', and decided to play for England when he found he was good enough. The idea is to play for the country you feel you have the most in common with- for instance, Simone Perrotta was born in England to Italian parents but moved to Italy at a fairly young age- he has valid reason to want to play for Italy, as he feels more Italian than English.

White lived most of his life from what it sounds like in Jamaica, born to Jamaican parents, he has a valid reason to play for them. You can't tell me Judas or Hargreaves could have felt more Dutch or English than Canadian.

rocker

01-14-2009, 12:20 PM

I have played against OB quite a few time, very smart player offensivley.

i didn't realize playing against Big Bruva was a great test of skill!!! ;)

anyhow, my point above (to clarify) is not that White sucks, but there's no reason to get pissed off about MoJo's picks or his non-picks (as the poster above says he'll feel if Mojo doesn't choose White). That would be a waste of emotional energy. Many draft picks better touted than White have failed in this league.

If TFC doesn't select White, I won't be "pissed off". Until White shows he can succeed in this league, there's no reason to get too pissed off if we don't pick him. For all we know, TFC could pick White and he turns out to be a bust. Then all the Mojo-haters will come out of the woodwork and say "geez, we shouldn't have drafted an injured, older college player."
Last year Julius James was touted as MLS ready two years ago, and he wasn't by a long shot.

JonO

01-14-2009, 12:34 PM

I AM CANADIAN: That's crap - you said White had a valid reason to choose either Canada or Jamaica. As far as I understand it he only went to high school here. He then began his professional career in the States.

JDG went to Holland at 12 and has been there ever since. So if you could have understood White playing for Canada, you can certainly understand JDG playing for Holland.

That's it for me though. Back to the originally programmed thread...

T_Mizz

01-14-2009, 12:47 PM

White would have reason to play for Canada if we were better, that's what Hargreaves and De Guzman seemed to be drawn to. I think they realized playing for Canada is a dead-end street: never making the world cup, but both Holland and England are (almost) shoe-ins for every major tournament.

Having said that, when the choices are Jamaica or Canada, it becomes more of a difficult decision.

PS what do you think about holding off on drafting him until our last pick? He's already stated he wants to play for TFC or some european team so let's use that to our advantage

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 02:46 PM

I know Jono feels more Dutch than Canadian coz he has been there since the age of what 15 so that basically what he knows and they are a huge Football country compared to a country that does not take the sport seriously at all.

Hargreaves is born here and his parents are from England so decided to play for a huge football country and his parents country in England, again most of these players laugh at the OSA and they got a right to coz the OSA is basically a joke.

I do understand ya point though.

Jonathan de Guzman was born in Toronto to Caribbean/Filipino parents, going to play for... the Netherlands, which until he moved there to play for Feyenoord, he had nothing to do with. Owen Hargreaves was born in Canada and lived there until as a teen he left to play for Bayern in Germany. He played for the Welsh youth teams and was available for any one of the 'Home Countries', and decided to play for England when he found he was good enough. The idea is to play for the country you feel you have the most in common with- for instance, Simone Perrotta was born in England to Italian parents but moved to Italy at a fairly young age- he has valid reason to want to play for Italy, as he feels more Italian than English.

White lived most of his life from what it sounds like in Jamaica, born to Jamaican parents, he has a valid reason to play for them. You can't tell me Judas or Hargreaves could have felt more Dutch or English than Canadian.

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 02:49 PM

You obiously have not seen me play then ;)

Played with/against or friends with a bunch of players that play pro from SWP, Scotty Parker and more so judging a player like O'B isn't too hard.

I just said he is a clever player offensively and i hope his injury has not affected that.

i didn't realize playing against Big Bruva was a great test of skill!!! ;)

anyhow, my point above (to clarify) is not that White sucks, but there's no reason to get pissed off about MoJo's picks or his non-picks (as the poster above says he'll feel if Mojo doesn't choose White). That would be a waste of emotional energy. Many draft picks better touted than White have failed in this league.

If TFC doesn't select White, I won't be "pissed off". Until White shows he can succeed in this league, there's no reason to get too pissed off if we don't pick him. For all we know, TFC could pick White and he turns out to be a bust. Then all the Mojo-haters will come out of the woodwork and say "geez, we shouldn't have drafted an injured, older college player."
Last year Julius James was touted as MLS ready two years ago, and he wasn't by a long shot.

JonO

01-14-2009, 02:52 PM

I just said he is a clever player offensively and i hope his injury has not affected that.
What did he tear again? :D

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 02:53 PM

A lot of players feel that its a dead end playing for a country that does not take the sport seriously.

When it comes to O'B he will always rep J.A, you will find most Jamaican people especially men that are born in J.A and come here rep J.A and say im Jamaican.

I have been here for years now and i would never say im Canadian, no offence its just i rep where im from.

White would have reason to play for Canada if we were better, that's what Hargreaves and De Guzman seemed to be drawn to. I think they realized playing for Canada is a dead-end street: never making the world cup, but both Holland and England are (almost) shoe-ins for every major tournament.

Having said that, when the choices are Jamaica or Canada, it becomes more of a difficult decision.

PS what do you think about holding off on drafting him until our last pick? He's already stated he wants to play for TFC or some european team so let's use that to our advantage

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 02:54 PM

What did he tear again? :D

Can't remember, was it ACL? totally forgot what it was.

Flipityflu

01-14-2009, 02:58 PM

you know, i hate this debate of nationality. it should be pretty simple. you can only play for the country you were born in. seriously, why isn't this so?

Broadview

01-14-2009, 03:04 PM

Can't remember, was it ACL? totally forgot what it was.

Yeah, it was his ACL.

Not the horrible injury it was 15 years ago though. Comebacks are pretty routine these days.

It is however 2009 and I don't have a flying car :(

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 03:16 PM

So what if 2 people go on holiday and end up having their baby there you feel that child should only be able to represent that country he was born in yeah?

I dunno man.

you know, i hate this debate of nationality. it should be pretty simple. you can only play for the country you were born in. seriously, why isn't this so?

Hitcho

01-14-2009, 03:28 PM

you know, i hate this debate of nationality. it should be pretty simple. you can only play for the country you were born in. seriously, why isn't this so?

Sorry dude, but Big bruva has got you there, and I'd make the same point. what if your parents are working abroad for a couple of years only, you get born and then they move back home taking you with them. You spend your whole life in country A, with a passport from that country, and then get told you have to represent country B internationally, even though you've never been there and can't speak the language? You can;t make hard and fast rules about it, which is why the grey areas are so big, which in turn allows for exploitation.

If it were down to you, Navratilova would never have become the champion she did because she'd never have been allowed to leave the communist bloc for the USA. Not exactly a great policy that, is it? :noidea:

I_AM_CANADIAN

01-14-2009, 03:37 PM

That's not the same thing- it's not like there's an American national tennis team. ;)

Personally- I think they should have something like allowing you to play for countries you're a citizen of before you turn 18- meaning you can't pull a Judas and play for the country your club happens to be in. That's just stupid. Playing in the Netherlands doesn't make you Dutch, neither does living there for six years. Born in Canada, parents never had anything to do with the Netherlands. Pato moved to Italy when he was 17, doesn't make him Italian. I'm not sure if Owen Hargreaves inherited English citizenship through his parents, but from what I've heard he never set foot in the country until he started playing for the national team. Which is just wrong from a moral point of view in my opinion. Owen Hargreaves is not English, he's Canadian. A personal example- I inherited Italian citizenship at birth from my grandparents. If I had the opportunity, I wouldn't play for Italy because I'm Canadian and I know it, and so does Hargreaves.
It's just not right.

Broadview

01-14-2009, 03:38 PM

Davis Cup, uh...Ladies Davis Cup, Olympics.

But I stay outta these threads...

zooom

BakaGaijin

01-14-2009, 03:57 PM

A lot of players feel that its a dead end playing for a country that does not take the sport seriously.

When it comes to O'B he will always rep J.A, you will find most Jamaican people especially men that are born in J.A and come here rep J.A and say im Jamaican.

I have been here for years now and i would never say im Canadian, no offence its just i rep where im from.

It is my impression that in many cases (not necessarily yours specifically) that many people who "rep where there from" do so because they feel disconnected from the greater society. This is mostly socio-economically related. People who grow up in poverty are more likely to feel disenfrachised and disconnected from the rest of society, and therefore, will feel more of a connection to "where they are from".

Unfortunately, there have been some barriers within certain communities that have made them more vulnerable to these conditions.

giambac

01-14-2009, 04:35 PM

I have never heard this before.
You can take as long as you want to decide

yes,
I'm 42 and still haven't decided who I'm going to play for;)

T_Mizz

01-14-2009, 05:55 PM

Flipityflu

01-14-2009, 06:18 PM

So what if 2 people go on holiday and end up having their baby there you feel that child should only be able to represent that country he was born in yeah?

I dunno man.

how many woman who are 9 months pregnant go on holidays? ;). for the small amount that this is the case, surely the country of 'original' residency when born is good enough. the point is, what should not be acceptable is something like going to play for England just because daddy was born there and you haven't lived there yourself. that is just stupid.

this would also be the case for those working abroad as well.

this rule is the bane of International Football.

T_Mizz

01-14-2009, 06:21 PM

How about you have to have lived there for like a year before choosing that country?

Flipityflu

01-14-2009, 06:26 PM

i guess my biggest problem was touched upon by BB...picking a country because it is more successful. this isn't club football. national pride should mean everthing when playing for your country. i just think the rules are way to open.

TFCREDNWHITE

01-14-2009, 06:48 PM

A lot of players feel that its a dead end playing for a country that does not take the sport seriously.

When it comes to O'B he will always rep J.A, you will find most Jamaican people especially men that are born in J.A and come here rep J.A and say im Jamaican.

I have been here for years now and i would never say im Canadian, no offence its just i rep where im from.

How many years is a "few" years?? I can understand where you are coming from...

I think Jonothan DeGuzman and Owen Hargraeves are exceptional circumstances that basically screwed us! ...and don't get me wrong, i mean no personal disrespect to them, I just think that they should've choosen to play for Canada...I don't care what there "so-called" excuses or "mixed feelings" were!

JDG

01-14-2009, 07:01 PM

you know, i hate this debate of nationality. it should be pretty simple. you can only play for the country you were born in. seriously, why isn't this so?

how many woman who are 9 months pregnant go on holidays? ;). for the small amount that this is the case, surely the country of 'original' residency when born is good enough. the point is, what should not be acceptable is something like going to play for England just because daddy was born there and you haven't lived there yourself. that is just stupid.

this would also be the case for those working abroad as well.

this rule is the bane of International Football.

My mother is Ukranian, but wasn't born there, and has never lived there. My Grandparents weren't on vacation in Germany when my mother was born, they were being held as prisoners in a work camp called Neumarkt. Would you insist, if she were an athlete, that she played for the Germans because she was born within their borders?

Flipityflu

01-14-2009, 07:03 PM

hargraeves was born in Calgary, lived here till 16, then moved to Germany. when he decided to play for England, he hadn't even spent any time living there. complete bullshit as far as i'm concerned, and the exact reason why i'm all for tightening the rules on this. this was NOT based on patriotism or national pride...it was based on personal success and fortune that comes along with it.

Flipityflu

01-14-2009, 07:06 PM

My mother is Ukranian, but wasn't born there, and has never lived there. My Grandparents weren't on vacation in Germany when my mother was born, they were being held as prisoners in a work camp called Neumarkt. Would you insist, if she were an athlete, that she played for the Germans because she was born within their borders?

of course not, but can you tell me how many current international football players were born in foreign prison work camps? its the hargraeves example i'm talking about. thats has to stop.

CretanBull

01-14-2009, 07:10 PM

I know Jono feels more Dutch than Canadian coz he has been there since the age of what 15 so that basically what he knows and they are a huge Football country compared to a country that does not take the sport seriously at all.

Hargreaves is born here and his parents are from England so decided to play for a huge football country and his parents country in England, again most of these players laugh at the OSA and they got a right to coz the OSA is basically a joke.

I do understand ya point though.

If in his heart Juno feels more Dutch than Canadian then I can't fault him for that - at least he's representing something that he connects with, believes in and feels apart of.

What bothers me is when guys make their decision with career opportunities in mind. We all know that the CSA is shit, but we still support our national program and dream of better days. I buy tickets, I spread the word and I do whatever I can to help change the football culture in Canada. It bothers me when players turn their backs on us. I'm doing my part to help improve things, why can't they?

professor

01-14-2009, 07:24 PM

It goes the other way too

the CSA has recruited its fair share of soccer ba$tards as well

Marc Bircham, born and raised in England
17 caps for Canada and 1 goal

"Bircham was capped by the Canada men's national soccer team in 1999.
He is eligible to play for Canada, because one of his grandfathers was
born in Winnipeg. This meant that he is the only player to have played
for a country without actually vsiting it when his first cap - as well
as his first and only goal - came against Northern Ireland in Belfast.
He has won 17 caps for his adopted country."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bircham

Bircham couldn't generate a sniff from the English FA

he'd never stepped foot in Canada before being given our jersey

Tell me Dwayne DeRoasario wouldn't have benefited more if he would have
played ahead of Bircham rather than watching Bircham from the bench

TFCREDNWHITE

01-14-2009, 07:47 PM

If in his heart Juno feels more Dutch than Canadian then I can't fault him for that - at least he's representing something that he connects with, believes in and feels apart of.

What bothers me is when guys make their decision with career opportunities in mind. We all know that the CSA is shit, but we still support our national program and dream of better days. I buy tickets, I spread the word and I do whatever I can to help change the football culture in Canada. It bothers me when players turn their backs on us. I'm doing my part to help improve things, why can't they?

BINGO!! amen brother, you hit the nail on the head! and i know for sure shot! that both hargreaves and little deguzman made their decision with "career opportunities" in mind!! and thats what irks me!

:canada::canada::canada:

Cambridge_Red

01-14-2009, 08:01 PM

This thread belongs on the Voyageurs board. I love Canada and such but isn't this a TFC board ??? I think the bigger issues here are is White a good fit for TFC??? and will he recover and be effective on our shit turf? Would we have another Ronnie O situation?? You know discussions like this rather than this nationality non sense. Just from the outside looking in...

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:15 PM

You go to J.A and ask them who they look at as the real Jamaican out of Bolt and Bailey. ;)

This is somewhat unrelated but Donovan Bailey is very Jamaican, he is even as big a celebrity in Jamaica as he is here, and which country got the Gold?:canada:

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:20 PM

There can be so many circumstances where 2 adults have a baby in a country that they are in for s short time.;)

I think there should be somre different rules in place, but thats not one.

how many woman who are 9 months pregnant go on holidays? ;). for the small amount that this is the case, surely the country of 'original' residency when born is good enough. the point is, what should not be acceptable is something like going to play for England just because daddy was born there and you haven't lived there yourself. that is just stupid.

this would also be the case for those working abroad as well.

this rule is the bane of International Football.

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:23 PM

I totally agree, i think when it comes to country its a touchy subject and i think you should be patriotic unless there are serious issues you just don't like your country.

i guess my biggest problem was touched upon by BB...picking a country because it is more successful. this isn't club football. national pride should mean everthing when playing for your country. i just think the rules are way to open.

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:26 PM

Nah i never said a "few" lol i have been here since 1999 and go back home yearly, yet o get my citizenship but im not sure ill ever look at myself as Canadian.

I do understand what you mean about Owen and Jonothan though.

How many years is a "few" years?? I can understand where you are coming from...

I think Jonothan DeGuzman and Owen Hargraeves are exceptional circumstances that basically screwed us! ...and don't get me wrong, i mean no personal disrespect to them, I just think that they should've choosen to play for Canada...I don't care what there "so-called" excuses or "mixed feelings" were!

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:30 PM

See what i mean about different circumstances Flipityflu?

My mother is Ukranian, but wasn't born there, and has never lived there. My Grandparents weren't on vacation in Germany when my mother was born, they were being held as prisoners in a work camp called Neumarkt. Would you insist, if she were an athlete, that she played for the Germans because she was born within their borders?

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:35 PM

I hear what ya saying mate.

If in his heart Juno feels more Dutch than Canadian then I can't fault him for that - at least he's representing something that he connects with, believes in and feels apart of.

What bothers me is when guys make their decision with career opportunities in mind. We all know that the CSA is shit, but we still support our national program and dream of better days. I buy tickets, I spread the word and I do whatever I can to help change the football culture in Canada. It bothers me when players turn their backs on us. I'm doing my part to help improve things, why can't they?

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:42 PM

There you go, basically every country does it.

I have never heard any of the fans talk about Marc till now.

If Hargreaves situation was flipped and it was Messi playing for Canada i would put money down that most fans would not complain about him representing Canada.

Just my opinion.

It goes the other way too

the CSA has recruited its fair share of soccer ba$tards as well

Marc Bircham, born and raised in England
17 caps for Canada and 1 goal

"Bircham was capped by the Canada men's national soccer team in 1999.
He is eligible to play for Canada, because one of his grandfathers was
born in Winnipeg. This meant that he is the only player to have played
for a country without actually vsiting it when his first cap - as well
as his first and only goal - came against Northern Ireland in Belfast.
He has won 17 caps for his adopted country."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bircham

Bircham couldn't generate a sniff from the English FA

he'd never stepped foot in Canada before being given our jersey

Tell me Dwayne DeRoasario wouldn't have benefited more if he would have
played ahead of Bircham rather than watching Bircham from the bench

Big Bruva

01-14-2009, 09:43 PM

AMEN lol

This thread belongs on the Voyageurs board. I love Canada and such but isn't this a TFC board ??? I think the bigger issues here are is White a good fit for TFC??? and will he recover and be effective on our shit turf? Would we have another Ronnie O situation?? You know discussions like this rather than this nationality non sense. Just from the outside looking in...

BakaGaijin

01-14-2009, 10:08 PM

Roogsy

01-14-2009, 10:08 PM

I don't know why we keep having OW discussions personally. The guy took some unfortunate advice, decided to play another year in college and screwed up his professional chances...in the near term at least.

The only real question here is since he does count as a domestic for TFC (the "Canadian" discussion is an irrelevant issue, who cares if he will play for Canada, what matters for the consideration of the draft is how he is considered under MLS rules) so since he does count as a domestic...do we want to draft him and at what point?

My guess is Mo will only look at players that will have tradeable value which OW does not currently have because of his injury. My guess is that TFC will not draft him. Perhaps somebody else will. Either way, I don't view it as a big loss.

professor

01-14-2009, 10:19 PM

he'll be drafted, his name was mentioned alot at the combine

if he was smart, he would have applied for, perhaps has already acquired his green card while he was at school. his old man lives in connecticut so there's his sponsor that puts him past B1 visa he might have held as a student and/or the "P" visa he would need to play MLS for a US based club

Ossington Mental Youth

01-14-2009, 10:39 PM

correct me if im wrong but i think i remember seeing that Obrien hasnt signed with the MLS yet and wants to play for TFC so if hes drafted by someone else hes likely to try and play in Europe, so its more or less in TFCs favor...

T_Mizz

01-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Yeah I posted that in another thread we should draft him last in the 4th

BakaGaijin

01-14-2009, 10:48 PM

RedRum

01-14-2009, 11:00 PM

I bet Mo snaps up OW with a late 1st round pick he deals for or maybe even well into the second round. The circumstances regarding his stated wishes will scare alot of teams off, I think more so than many on here believe.

Ossington Mental Youth

01-14-2009, 11:03 PM

How about Harbour View FC?

LOL.

HAHAHA
yes, such a promising club

Jamaicanadian

01-15-2009, 10:08 AM

OB signed with the MLS.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=goal_connecticuts_obrian_white&prov=goal&type=lgns

How about Harbour View FC?

LOL.

Some of you need to do research and get off you high horse before you type. Harbour View has produced many international ballers. Ricardo Gardnder and Luton Shelton (to name but 2) were developd and sold by this small club.......

Roogsy

01-15-2009, 10:14 AM

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:17 AM

OB signed with the MLS.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=goal_connecticuts_obrian_white&prov=goal&type=lgns
Some of you need to do research and get off you high horse before you type. Harbour View has produced many international ballers. Ricardo Gardnder and Luton Shelton (to name but 2) were developd and sold by this small club.......
Two things:
1):mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:Why would you announce that out loud you asshole now other teams are going to be looking at drafting you so we have to pick you up in the first or risk another team holding you ransom. JK you're still welcome here:canada:

2) Champions Leagues Qualified:
Harbour View FC: 1/1
TFC: 0/1
winners: Harbour View FC

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:19 AM

What are the pros and cons of a Generation Adidas contract for the player? The article mentions he turned down a GA contract...what are the considerations for a player when looking at that? There is obviously a down side since he passed on it.
From what I understand the down side is you're now forced to play out your GA contract in the MLS but if your career doesn't pan out you get a scholarship to finish your education

Roogsy

01-15-2009, 10:21 AM

Since he is pretty much done school, I guess it doesn't have much upside in that regard. But if it's guaranteed, I wonder if there are any other considerations other than Europe. After all, Mo Edu was GA and he managed to move over, I guess after his contract was up. But still...

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:25 AM

Well I guess he figured MLS, which he was ready for, is a better showcase for europe than college soccer so why not?
Also a bit of a side note there aren't any players 18 or under this year which is a disturbing trend as there is becoming less and less U-18 players in the draft

Flipityflu

01-15-2009, 10:28 AM

don't think i don't get that there will always be circumstances that challenge basic rules BB, i just think some of the exceptions are silly and self serving.

Roogsy

01-15-2009, 10:30 AM

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:31 AM

In the world of soccer everything is and needs to be self-serving, its not like any other sport where there's no doubt that the best league is in NA. In soccer you need to get to the best leagues as soon as possible instead of being drafted into the best league in your early 20s

BakaGaijin

01-15-2009, 10:36 AM

Some of you need to do research and get off you high horse before you type. Harbour View has produced many international ballers. Ricardo Gardnder and Luton Shelton (to name but 2) were developd and sold by this small club.......

.........and the Toronto Lynx developed Dero...........doesn't make them a force.

Did you see Harbour View get raped by DC United last year?!?

Jamaicanadian

01-15-2009, 10:39 AM

It is my impression that in many cases (not necessarily yours specifically) that many people who "rep where there from" do so because they feel disconnected from the greater society. This is mostly socio-economically related. People who grow up in poverty are more likely to feel disenfrachised and disconnected from the rest of society, and therefore, will feel more of a connection to "where they are from".

Unfortunately, there have been some barriers within certain communities that have made them more vulnerable to these conditions.

Your impression is skewed....Money has absolutley nothing to do with this.....It's simply a fact that the Jamaican culture is a very very strong rich & inclusive culture. In this case race and economic status play a distant second fiddle when were talking Jamaica and cultural passion....It really is that simple.

Back to the thread..........

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:42 AM

That is a bad trend indeed. These players coming out at 22 are already behind the ball as far as Europe is concerned.
BTW last year there were 3:
2) Brek Shea 17, M
8) Josh Lambo 17, GK
17) Alex Nimo 17, F

2007- 4
9) Anthony Wallace 17, D
11) Bryan Arguez 17, D
12) Amaechi Igwe 17, D
14) Abdus Ibrahim 15, F

2006- 5
6) Dax McCarthy 18, M
12) Nathan Sturgis 18, D
17) Josmer Altidore 16, F
18) Blake Wagner 17, D
Undrafted) David Arvizu 17, F

Jamaicanadian

01-15-2009, 10:48 AM

.........and the Toronto Lynx developed Dero...........doesn't make them a force.

Did you see Harbour View get raped by DC United last year?!?

I would argue that Dero was NOT developed by the Lynx.
I also saw our beloved TFC struggle against Montreal....
So you want to judge an organization based on one of their worst results last year...Says everything about you..:)....You could have also pointed out that HV tied DCU in JA.......You make silly comments..

rocker

01-15-2009, 10:57 AM

I also saw our beloved TFC struggle against Montreal....

Wow, a win and tie against Montreal is a struggle??!?!?

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 10:58 AM

True our struggles were against Vancouver

Razcle

01-15-2009, 11:01 AM

Wow...this thread went above and beyond what its initial purpose was. But at least all the commentary is in the same thread and not mashed around different blogs and message boards on different sites.

I think I understand what is going on with OW now. Lets see if we draft him in a few hrs.

BakaGaijin

01-15-2009, 11:22 AM

I would argue that Dero was NOT developed by the Lynx.
I also saw our beloved TFC struggle against Montreal....
So you want to judge an organization based on one of their worst results last year...Says everything about you..:)....You could have also pointed out that HV tied DCU in JA.......You make silly comments..

I think we were poor for most of the entire season last year. I don't claim otherwise.

I watched the game in JA last year. DC United hadn't played in 4 months and the pitch was extremely poor. DC United was still the far superior team in that game.

Now, is TFC better than HV? I would like to think so, but who knows.... Perhaps we'll find out one day. I am 100% positive though that DC United WAS much better than HV last year. If you watched those games I don't know how you could disagree.

Beach_Red

01-15-2009, 11:23 AM

Wow, a win and tie against Montreal is a struggle??!?!?

When the predictions were two easy wins, yeah, it was a struggle. I'm still struggle to accept it ;).

And sorry to go further off topic.

rocker

01-15-2009, 11:30 AM

When the predictions were two easy wins, yeah, it was a struggle. I'm still struggle to accept it ;).

If we never lose to montreal ever and that's considered a "struggle," I'll take a struggle every time too :)

Sorry, any time I hear a fan (or so-called fan) of TFC even insinuating that we had trouble with the Limp Act, it hits a raw nerve. We get enough abuse from their fans that we don't need our own suggesting otherwise. Don't forget we "christened" Saputo stadium with the first ever goal there!

back to our regularly scheduled topic...

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 11:37 AM

I think we were poor for most of the entire season last year. I don't claim otherwise.

I watched the game in JA last year. DC United hadn't played in 4 months and the pitch was extremely poor. DC United was still the far superior team in that game.

Now, is TFC better than HV? I would like to think so, but who knows.... Perhaps we'll find out one day. I am 100% positive though that DC United WAS much better than HV last year. If you watched those games I don't know how you could disagree.
And we lost 4-0 to DC so comparing results against the same team isn't helpful, but anyway how bout that O'brien White, huh?

Big Bruva

01-15-2009, 11:37 AM

Agreed

don't think i don't get that there will always be circumstances that challenge basic rules BB, i just think some of the exceptions are silly and self serving.

Big Bruva

01-15-2009, 11:41 AM

Another reason why the MLS will be miles behind europe, these young men start their development at 22, 23 etc while kids in europe start their development at 11, 12 etc

That is a bad trend indeed. These players coming out at 22 are already behind the ball as far as Europe is concerned.

Big Bruva

01-15-2009, 11:45 AM

I wouldn't say Lynx totally developed DeRo at all

.........and the Toronto Lynx developed Dero...........doesn't make them a force.

Did you see Harbour View get raped by DC United last year?!?

Jamaicanadian

01-15-2009, 11:47 AM

If we never lose to montreal ever and that's considered a "struggle," I'll take a struggle every time too :)

Sorry, any time I hear a fan (or so-called fan) of TFC even insinuating that we had trouble with the Limp Act, it hits a raw nerve. We get enough abuse from their fans that we don't need our own suggesting otherwise. Don't forget we "christened" Saputo stadium with the first ever goal there!

back to our regularly scheduled topic...

I dunno about the fan or no fan business but in the football context; anytime a team from a "higher division" does not handily beat a team from a "lower division" this is a struggle.

It is a fact that TFC struggled through that whole Canada Cup competition No insinuation from this corner; the struggle was on display for all to see.......

What time is the draft?

BakaGaijin

01-15-2009, 11:50 AM

And we lost 4-0 to DC so comparing results against the same team isn't helpful, but anyway how bout that O'brien White, huh?

I hope we draft him.

jabbronies

01-15-2009, 11:52 AM

Well hopefully the academies change that. We now have guys who are starting thier training at 17 and 18

Hopfully next year we'll get the 15 and 16 year olds into the system

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 11:56 AM

2 o clock

T_Mizz

01-15-2009, 11:57 AM

Well hopefully the academies change that. We now have guys who are starting thier training at 17 and 18

Hopfully next year we'll get the 15 and 16 year olds into the system
We have a U-16 team already, they're also introducing a U-14 team this year

Beach_Red

01-15-2009, 12:00 PM

If we never lose to montreal ever and that's considered a "struggle," I'll take a struggle every time too :)

Sorry, any time I hear a fan (or so-called fan) of TFC even insinuating that we had trouble with the Limp Act, it hits a raw nerve. We get enough abuse from their fans that we don't need our own suggesting otherwise. Don't forget we "christened" Saputo stadium with the first ever goal there!

back to our regularly scheduled topic...

Well, I'm just glad our team on opening day this year will be quite different than the one that played in the Canadian Championship last year ;).

And I'd like to see OW in Toronto, too.

tfcmanu

01-15-2009, 03:18 PM

Toronto FC has taken Scarborough striker O'Brian White in the Major League Soccer SuperDraft.
White, 23, a standout with the University of Connecticut where he won U.S. college soccer's top individual award in 2007, was chosen fourth overall at the draft this afternoon in St. Louis. He missed much of the 2008 season after tearing up his knee.
Toronto, which had three of the top 13 picks, earlier chose Sam Cronin, a star midfielder with Wake Forest University.
Toronto also has a 13th pick in the first round and a pair in the third round.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/571657

jrey

01-16-2009, 01:20 PM

Another reason why the MLS will be miles behind europe, these young men start their development at 22, 23 etc while kids in europe start their development at 11, 12 etc

Most MLS teams now have academies, and in many cases I'd bet there are players starting as young as 13.

Sure, they'll be miles behind Europe - how many miles is a century, exactly? Remember this league started in the 90s, just about 100 years after EVERY top flight league in Europe.

By 2013 there could be a 20-team league in place, then it's all about spreading the game.

How about I go to many football-countries in Europe and start a hockey league - if it's doing as well 10-15 years on as MLS is in a much bigger continent, I'd probably be happy.

The NCAA route is mostly for players who will never be big stars in Europe, which encourages them to stay and play here - which is just fine by me. If OW or Cronin or Frei are past their time in Europe, that's great as far as I'm concerned. We could use their quality here.

gtaguy

07-27-2009, 09:36 PM

Most MLS teams now have academies, and in many cases I'd bet there are players starting as young as 13.

Sure, they'll be miles behind Europe - how many miles is a century, exactly? Remember this league started in the 90s, just about 100 years after EVERY top flight league in Europe.

By 2013 there could be a 20-team league in place, then it's all about spreading the game.

How about I go to many football-countries in Europe and start a hockey league - if it's doing as well 10-15 years on as MLS is in a much bigger continent, I'd probably be happy.

The NCAA route is mostly for players who will never be big stars in Europe, which encourages them to stay and play here - which is just fine by me. If OW or Cronin or Frei are past their time in Europe, that's great as far as I'm concerned. We could use their quality here.

just rehashing the old and adding imput into the the new faces of toronto fc..
Frei our starting goalkeeper..Like the guy and can only hope he figures out the almighty penalty kicks..
Cronin.. stable and secure player in our midfield.. like him a bunch aswell. can hold the ball and makes secure passes without giving away too much..

obw this kid when he gets his boots on straight he will be a mixture between ali gerba and marvel wynne.. he can hold a ball and ontop of that strike fear into our enemys.. i have seen signs of his glory and am glad hes in our club..I think that offensively he will be the player that will set our club on the road to riches.. he's got this distinctive quality i can't put a name to just yet but i rather be on his side of the ball then the opposing end.. I hope im right because for a canadian prospect obw seems to be gifted in my eyes.. :scarf: