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View Full Version : Onward! -- Deal the draft picks



Ben Knight
01-13-2009, 09:43 AM
http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/01/13/deal-the-picks/

:-) // Ben

rocker
01-13-2009, 09:44 AM
ben and I agree. he must be reading my posts ;)

CDNSoccerFan
01-13-2009, 09:49 AM
Random thought but does anyone else think the future success of this league depends on having the NCAA as its main feeder for players (high quality players and depth players)?

rocker
01-13-2009, 09:51 AM
some people believe as the league gets better the NCAA importance will decline.. cuz the better kids will come through the academies or teams will just buy young foreigners with the expected increase in the cap.
the draft has been great for the American teams to get reasonable talent that won`t leave MLS though... those workhorse no-names have been useful. they don`t cost a lot but do a nice filler job.

Puskas
01-13-2009, 09:53 AM
Thanks Ben. Great site, keep em coming sir

mednus
01-13-2009, 09:55 AM
Random thought but does anyone else think the future success of this league depends on having the NCAA as its main feeder for players (high quality players and depth players)?

If the future success of MLS depends on NCAA then we should pack it in now! Academies are the way to go even most of the leagues GM's say they want players at 16-17 not 21-23.

Academies are the way to go with the one in a million through the college ranks!

CoachGT
01-13-2009, 01:32 PM
Random thought but does anyone else think the future success of this league depends on having the NCAA as its main feeder for players (high quality players and depth players)?

Much like other major leagues in North America, MLS seems predisposed to using the NCAA as a feeder system (see the NFL, NBA and to a lesser extent the NHL). But in the first two, the primary source of players is in the US alone. In the third, major junior hockey is as much a feeder system, supplemented by a strong minor league support system. Baseball, while having a draft, relies primarily on the minor league development system. Baseball and hockey both have a more international source of players than the others (although the NBA is moving in that direction).

I can see MLS falling more closely into the baseball format that others, but the minor league or development system doesn't exist yet. MLS has started down the right path with the academy system, although there is a long way to go, and restrictions on signing academy players must be abolished. Also, some means of allowing academy players to move on to higher education should also be allowed, further enhancing their development through summer programs with their parent teams.

With football/soccer being a truly international game, the opportunity for seeking and finding top quality players is much greater in soccer than in any other sport. MLS needs to find some means of exploiting that with a truly world class development system. Players need more development than they can receive in NCAA alone.

CoachGT
01-13-2009, 01:37 PM
^^ and for what it is worth, I agree, deal all of the picks! Unless, as VPjr has suggested, there is a more startegic value to them!

jabbronies
01-13-2009, 01:39 PM
hmmm I'm not sure if dealing away draft pics is the best option. I'm all about holding on to good young talent and not trading them away for aging veterans (A la Toronto Maple Leafs).

We'll see what happens. I trust mo knows what he's doing. The draft is where he excels. IMO he has a real eye for picking out players in the draft.

ginkster88
01-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Who else just can't wait to see what Mo does come draft day?

Carts
01-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Who else just can't wait to see what Mo does come draft day?

Me!

Carts...

Beach_Red
01-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Much like other major leagues in North America, MLS seems predisposed to using the NCAA as a feeder system (see the NFL, NBA and to a lesser extent the NHL). But in the first two, the primary source of players is in the US alone. In the third, major junior hockey is as much a feeder system, supplemented by a strong minor league support system. Baseball, while having a draft, relies primarily on the minor league development system. Baseball and hockey both have a more international source of players than the others (although the NBA is moving in that direction).

I can see MLS falling more closely into the baseball format that others, but the minor league or development system doesn't exist yet. MLS has started down the right path with the academy system, although there is a long way to go, and restrictions on signing academy players must be abolished. Also, some means of allowing academy players to move on to higher education should also be allowed, further enhancing their development through summer programs with their parent teams.

With football/soccer being a truly international game, the opportunity for seeking and finding top quality players is much greater in soccer than in any other sport. MLS needs to find some means of exploiting that with a truly world class development system. Players need more development than they can receive in NCAA alone.

You're right, but it's worth noting that hockey has peaked in the US and is starting to decline and baseball has fallen far from the number one spot it once had no real competition for.

Either America will have to become more international, or the NCAA will have to someday produce players at the top level of the world - as they do in track and field, skiing, swimming, golf, tennis - and even baseball and hockey.

In every other sport the best coaching is in the NCAA - it could happen in soccer, too. Because if it's academies or NCAA it's still the very rare kid who makes a living as a pro and the NCAA (as corrupt as it is in football and basketball) has more to offer the kids who don't make it. How many parents are going to encourage an academy over a scholarship?

Oldtimer
01-13-2009, 03:12 PM
Who else just can't wait to see what Mo does come draft day?I think most of us are in that boat. 2PM on the 15th can't come soon enough...

Razcle
01-13-2009, 03:14 PM
^ But if the acadamies cater to the <18 year old soccer player. Wouldn't these kids be eligible for College if they do not graduate to the professional ranks? In my opinion, the acadamies will help differentiate the boys who should turn professional from the boys that need more development. Because what happens to the Acadamy kids who are 18-19 and are not in the plans to move up to the pro roster? I mean its not like we have a development roster anymore

CoachGT
01-13-2009, 03:37 PM
You're right, but it's worth noting that hockey has peaked in the US and is starting to decline and baseball has fallen far from the number one spot it once had no real competition for.

Either America will have to become more international, or the NCAA will have to someday produce players at the top level of the world - as they do in track and field, skiing, swimming, golf, tennis - and even baseball and hockey.

In every other sport the best coaching is in the NCAA - it could happen in soccer, too. Because if it's academies or NCAA it's still the very rare kid who makes a living as a pro and the NCAA (as corrupt as it is in football and basketball) has more to offer the kids who don't make it. How many parents are going to encourage an academy over a scholarship?

Agreed. NCAA has some outstanding soccer coaches, and there will always be good ones and less good ones. I think the academies need a way to encourage continued high level education and act in a supplemental role for soccer development. Soccer has a long way to go before it is mainstream at the MLS level, let alone at the NCAA level, so creating an alternative development system in addition to existing college level athletics is a necessity.

Beach_Red
01-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Agreed. NCAA has some outstanding soccer coaches, and there will always be good ones and less good ones. I think the academies need a way to encourage continued high level education and act in a supplemental role for soccer development. Soccer has a long way to go before it is mainstream at the MLS level, let alone at the NCAA level, so creating an alternative development system in addition to existing college level athletics is a necessity.

Yes, there's room for both, certainly.

In addition to developing players, NCAA will develop fans (this may be even more important). The main reason football was able to pass baseball as the #1 pro sport in America was because of the success of the NCAA in attracting fans - look at the difference between college football and minor league baseball. And basketball did the same thing.

We'll know soccer is big-time in the US when college soccer is on TV.

djking2
01-13-2009, 05:43 PM
NCAA soccer is the perhaps the worst possible training ground for professional footballers in the world. What it does well is produce a supply of players to play for the ridiculous starting wages of the MLS. Fook sake they have unlimited substitution!!!

http://soccerlens.com/youth-football-in-the-us/7381/

CoachGT
01-14-2009, 07:59 AM
NCAA soccer is the perhaps the worst possible training ground for professional footballers in the world. What it does well is produce a supply of players to play for the ridiculous starting wages of the MLS. Fook sake they have unlimited substitution!!!

http://soccerlens.com/youth-football-in-the-us/7381/

The unlimited subsititution really skews the ability of anyone to discern the true skill level of players. Playing a full 90 is different than playing parts of 90 with substitutions allowed. A player who is even partially rested can influence a game even if they are not at the same skill levels as the best players on the pitch.

Beach_Red
01-14-2009, 09:14 AM
The unlimited subsititution really skews the ability of anyone to discern the true skill level of players. Playing a full 90 is different than playing parts of 90 with substitutions allowed. A player who is even partially rested can influence a game even if they are not at the same skill levels as the best players on the pitch.


It's really too bad. Do you know of any discussions in the NCAA to "fix" it and bring the game in line with the rest of the world?

CoachGT
01-14-2009, 10:06 AM
^ No. I was at a coaching function a while ago where the question was asked about this, and no changes appear to be forthcoming.

poppamidnight
01-14-2009, 10:55 AM
Ben,
You mention how Mo should trade picks 2 + 4, but the only tangable veteran you mention bringing in is Serioux....
If i count, Serioux is one person. The picks are two people. He aiint worth the two.

A top-4 pick is worth more than "oh just trade it away for some veteran help in the back"....
So if theres nothing in place there with a set veteran target, why mention TRADING BOTH?

I understand you have a thing vs. youth coming in, but lets not go overboard here, theres no need to trade them both if Serioux is the only target we know for sure we have a shot at.

You make it sound like we Should take whatever we can get for it no matter how shitty our return on it could be.

No no no my friend, stand pat unless we know for sure both picks can fetch us Serioux quality return

As of now the only way i see us trading BOTH picks is if this happens (based on all the offseason rumblings):
#2 to FCD in that Serioux deal
#4 + Tyronne to Seattle for #1 (Gonzalez)

Then like you say #13 for White.

Beach_Red
01-14-2009, 10:59 AM
^ No. I was at a coaching function a while ago where the question was asked about this, and no changes appear to be forthcoming.

Damn. Of all the wonky "American rules," this is about the worst.

Ben Knight
01-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Read a little closer, Poppa. All the stuff about allocation money. :-)

poppamidnight
01-14-2009, 05:25 PM
Your contradicting yourself though:

"TFC can’t wait for help in the centre of defence."

then at the end u mention how fast allocation $ will run out

Oh im not discounting the fact allocation $ is a good thing, but wheres the body?

We no longer have faith in what TFC does with it's $ - what did it get us last year?

Our big signing:
Laurent friggen Robert????

Not to mention many expect the $ to be spent on help up front...

Again, if you ask me, Take the bodies - it seems like a safer bet with all the failed promises TFC has spewed out these past 2 yrs

Take a rookie D in the top-4 (preferably gonzalez #1 via tradeup)
then trade that #2 for veteran help (Serioux)

But don't move outta the top-4 completely.
Just seems downright silly w/ our trackrecord

Ben Knight
01-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Okay. One more time. Deal one pick for a central defender, deal another for allocation money. ... And watch Dallas throw a draft pick into a Serioux deal.

Mo's on good ground here. He can get Serioux, cash AND a couple of prospects.

MLS does not really reward teams for stockpiling youth. The transition from the NCAA to the pros is rarely smooth, and there really aren't enough roster spots to stash projects.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Mo had Serioux in the first year and got rid of him, and watching him this year i can see why, hes nothing special...don't trade any one or any pick for him, maybe allocation money but thats it.