TFC *HAVEN'T* Closed Door on DP Before Season Start

[Shakes McQueen]

From Ives:

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/mls-hot-stove-trade-talk-galore-ahead-of-draft.html#more


Reports that Toronto FC has already closed the door on signing a designated player before the start of the season are not true, team sources told SBI. With plenty of allocation money on hand to fit a DP salary onto its salary cap, Toronto could make a DP signing this pre-season if the right player came along, but a summer signing is still probably more likely.Let the speculation continue.

- Scott

[Razcle]

TFC is basically refuting the fact that they will not sign a DP this winter. This statement doesn't give me any more confidence that something will happen. I am now going to sit on the fence until something gets done. This speculation nonsence is really not worth the time IMO

[Shakes McQueen]

TFC is basically refuting the fact that they will not sign a DP this winter. This statement doesn't give me any more confidence that something will happen. I am now going to sit on the fence until something gets done. This speculation nonsence is really not worth the time IMO

I agree 100%, but it directly refutes Kristian Jack's assertion that the door has closed on signing a DP before the summer.

- Scott

[Detroit_TFC]

I think this was the FO's way to indirectly tell us to stop whining.

[Marc"2L"]

No it's the FO trying to contain any animosity about not signing the DP in the summer.

[Redcoe15]

Wasn't Blanco a summer signing for Chicago? :noidea:

[TFCREDNWHITE]

No it's the FO trying to contain any animosity about not signing the DP in the summer.

Agreed +1. Fackin' front office, they are trying to play us like 2 dollar hookers...:cool:

[Derko]

I see that the anti MLSE crew are at it again!!
It's called PR folks, and you get sucked into it everytime.lol

Patience is a virtue, I suppose!!

[jloome]

Beyond which, it may be that they're going to sign a player before the season starts, but not have him available until summer, given that the Euro season isnt' over when MLS starts.

[Keyman]

I see that the anti MLSE crew are at it again!!
It's called PR folks, and you get sucked into it everytime.lol

Patience is a virtue, I suppose!!
Being eternally patient, however, is not wise. I have previously been a supporter of the saying "good things come to those who wait" but I've been waiting, and waiting, and I don't want to wait anymore.

If nothing occurs this season, I will be infuriated. I've already stated my opinion on De Rosario, and I'm keeping it.

[Shakes McQueen]

Beyond which, it may be that they're going to sign a player before the season starts, but not have him available until summer, given that the Euro season isnt' over when MLS starts.

Even if they announced a name - sort of like when Beckham announced he was leaving Madrid at the start of his last season there - I would be satisfied.

I really do think this is the best time to be bringing in a DP. Our financial situation is rarely going to be better than this - lots of cap space, bags of allocation money. And we've got a proficient attacking midfielder to pair him with, in DeRo.

I just wish we as fans had some real insight or information into who is a) available, and b) is willing to come and play for us, so we could more accurately assess what was going on.

I don't want to get irritated with the FO for not making a signing, when the reality is that no one wants to come here, for example.

- Scott

[VPjr]

No it's the FO trying to contain any animosity about not signing the DP in the summer.

Bingo

[Roogsy]

Agreed +1. Fackin' front office, they are trying to play us like 2 dollar hookers...:cool:

How do you play a $2 hooker? LOL! Never heard that one before...

I agree...I think this is the FO's way of telling us to shut up. LOL!

I would be shocked...SHOCKED...if we signed a DP this winter. I want them to...but I doubt it will happen.

[Canadian Blue]

I don't care if we have a DP, all I want is a team with a solid consistent starting XI

[BuSaPuNk]

^ Complelely agree soild consistent play is what we lack. Consistency and we make the playoffs.

[TorontoBlades]

How do you play a $2 hooker? LOL! Never heard that one before...

A loonie up front....then a chocolate loonie after the deed is done :)

[Derko]

A loonie up front....then a chocolate loonie after the deed is done :)

Now that is funny!!

[BFin]

this situation is more drawn out then the Mats Sundin debacle Toronto had to go through for the past 6 months. Ugh, make a decision already, or throw us a bone with at least some hints as to what they are thinking of.

[Super]

I was just thinking about the whole DP situation. It's true that a DP is not a sure thing for a team, and that we may not get a return on our investment bringing one into the team. But why get 2 players worth $200k when you get 1 player for the same amount worth millions? The investment in terms if salary cap is just 150k or so more than what we paid Andy Welsh. Think about that fact! Also, how much do you figure we paid for Laurent Robert? Or Carlos Ruiz? How about Jeff Cunningham? All players not all that far from a DP salary. An extra bit of cash on top of the salary of any of these players and we can create a DP player - adding millions on top to get a real star on the team. Not that HUGE of a risk, is it now?

That's really how I look at it. Angel is worth 2 million, and if you look at the goals he's scored he clearly was a great investment. That's the sort of player we've all been wanting from day one anyway. Proper scouting will reveal the location of this player. Poor scouting will get us Colin Samuel, Andy Welsh and Tebily for far more than the cost of a DP (towards our cap, anyway).

[TFCREDNWHITE]

A loonie up front....then a chocolate loonie after the deed is done :)


HAHHA :D:D:p Nice!

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't care if we have a DP, all I want is a team with a solid consistent starting XI

Obviously aI agree with this sentiment, but all other things being equal, I would rather have a superstar striker, than merely a proficient and consistent one. I assume you would, too.

I don't want a DP, if it comes at the expense of a solid starting XI. But I don't think anyone is saying that.

- Scott

[tfc]

the footy show guys made an interesting point in their podcast yesterday in suggesting that one route to a DP is to go to brazil or wherever and pick up some young 18 year old, 20 year old, whatever, and pay him a DP salary before he realizes he's a genius and should be off to the prem or wherever. Definitely more risky as your not getting a star, but if you pulled it off it would be awesome.

Imagine the money we'd get when we sold him too! In the grand scheme of things, its not that big of a gamble for mlse considering how much money they pay players on other teams, however signing a 'prospect' is definitely a more intensive process ...

im not suggesting thats the route we should take, but definitely worth throwing on the table, in my mind.

[brad]

the footy show guys made an interesting point in their podcast yesterday in suggesting that one route to a DP is to go to brazil or wherever and pick up some young 18 year old, 20 year old, whatever, and pay him a DP salary before he realizes he's a genius and should be off to the prem or wherever. Definitely more risky as your not getting a star, but if you pulled it off it would be awesome.

Imagine the money we'd get when we sold him too! In the grand scheme of things, its not that big of a gamble for mlse considering how much money they pay players on other teams, however signing a 'prospect' is definitely a more intensive process ...

im not suggesting thats the route we should take, but definitely worth throwing on the table, in my mind.

I'd actually prefer this route over some aging Euro player. There's no guarantee that a player that used to be a quality player in Europe is going to tear the MLS apart either.

I think the main draw back would be from a marketing perspective. The Euro player is going generate a stir, where as some no name Brazilian won't.

Also, what about transfer fees? I wonder if we'd pay them.

[tfc]

^^^ True, marketing was the biggest drawback i could think of as well... If you take a longer term perspective though, bringing in a massive talent at a young age may be even better marketing if we pull it off. Not only does tfc become the team thats pumping out decent talent (wynne when we sell him, edu, some brazilian dp, etc ...), it makes us look like a better team in mls to potential players and bumps up opinion of the league across the pond, while at the same time helping us win!

my issue with the dp is that teams are taking such a short-term view of the role. who gives a shit about signing some old star who sticks around for a year or two? they should be using it to bring in better young talent. By doing that they are strengthening the marketability of the team by building tradition and history - way more important to me than being a team that is awesome for a year or two because of the dp, and when he is gone, being just average.

[Super]

I'd actually prefer this route over some aging Euro player. There's no guarantee that a player that used to be a quality player in Europe is going to tear the MLS apart either.

I think the main draw back would be from a marketing perspective. The Euro player is going generate a stir, where as some no name Brazilian won't.

Also, what about transfer fees? I wonder if we'd pay them.

I seriously doubt there is going to be an 18 or 19 year old in Brazil with great potential who is not tied down to a long-term contract. And if he has any potential you bet he'll be picked up by super scouts working for European clubs. Even if we managed to get an 18 year old who is a) not tied down to a contract and b) not in the eye of a Euro scout, I seriously doubt he'd make for a better investment than a proven, 2 million a year, striker in his 30's. Again, look at Angel. It's all about proper scouting. Denilson was SHIT scouting. People knock the DP's when really the clubs have nobody to blame but themselves.

Let's see what Mo is able to do!

[tfc]

I seriously doubt there is going to be an 18 or 19 year old in Brazil with great potential who is not tied down to a long-term contract. And if he has any potential you bet he'll be picked up by super scouts working for European clubs. Even if we managed to get an 18 year old who is a) not tied down to a contract and b) not in the eye of a Euro scout, I seriously doubt he'd make for a better investment than a proven, 2 million a year, striker in his 30's. Again, look at Angel. It's all about proper scouting. Denilson was SHIT scouting. People knock the DP's when really the clubs have nobody to blame but themselves.

Let's see what Mo is able to do!

Well thats the whole essence of scouting and bringing in players, isn't it. by your logic we shouldn't bother scouting young guys and only stick to old guys who have histories, which i don't think you'd agree with.

Proper scouting is definitely the key, regardless of whether it is an old guy, or a young guy. As an investment, i think it makes more sense (assuming you've scouted a good young kid) to sign the young guy over the old guy as you are building a meaningful tradition and history as a club, rather than having a tradition as scavengers, which i think is the first inclination of mls teams.

[Super]

Well thats the whole essence of scouting and bringing in players, isn't it. by your logic we shouldn't bother scouting young guys and only stick to old guys who have histories, which i don't think you'd agree with.

Proper scouting is definitely the key, regardless of whether it is an old guy, or a young guy. As an investment, i think it makes more sense (assuming you've scouted a good young kid) to sign the young guy over the old guy as you are building a meaningful tradition and history as a club, rather than having a tradition as scavengers, which i think is the first inclination of mls teams.

I'm all for scouting young players and good prospects, but I wouldn't want to pay DP money for one. And let's be honest here, how many 18-19 year olds, unattached and undiscovered, do you think are walking around in Brazil worth a DP contract? Zero!

[tfc]

I'm all for scouting young players and good prospects, but I wouldn't want to pay DP money for one. And let's be honest here, how many 18-19 year olds, unattached and undiscovered, do you think are walking around in Brazil worth a DP contract? Zero!

I'm using Brazil as an example, the country is irrelevant. I didn't bring it up to discuss the feasibility of TFC scouting young talent, rather, to discuss the status of the DP and the general understanding that he has to be a star at the end of his career.

Were there a scenario where our scouts found a young guy with boatloads of talent, but commanded DP salary, I would probably be more more excited to be in that situation than bringing in a fading star. I don't think that is the case with the majority of supporters, and I don't necessarily think that is the correct direction we should take our team. :D

[Super]

I'm using Brazil as an example, the country is irrelevant. I didn't bring it up to discuss the feasibility of TFC scouting young talent, rather, to discuss the status of the DP and the general understanding that he has to be a star at the end of his career.

Were there a scenario where our scouts found a young guy with boatloads of talent, but commanded DP salary, I would probably be more more excited to be in that situation than bringing in a fading star. I don't think that is the case with the majority of supporters, and I don't necessarily think that is the correct direction we should take our team. :D

Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you and would love a young player with lots of promise. The problem is just that the MLS doesn't really welcome this sort of investment. MLS-clubs don't buy players out of their contracts. And realistically the odds of finding an 18-year old free-agent anywhere, who is a huge talent with no better option than the MLS, is just to me beyond us at this point. We might find one that Europe has passed on, who is at the end of his contract, who we can lure to MLS with a huge pay-out. But again, that's more of a gamble in my eyes than signing Angel.

[tfc]

Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you and would love a young player with lots of promise. The problem is just that the MLS doesn't really welcome this sort of investment. MLS-clubs don't buy players out of their contracts. And realistically the odds of finding an 18-year old free-agent anywhere, who is a huge talent with no better option than the MLS, is just to me beyond us at this point. We might find one that Europe has passed on, who is at the end of his contract, who we can lure to MLS with a huge pay-out. But again, that's more of a gamble in my eyes than signing Angel.

Totally agree. You have got to think MLS will have to change its policy regarding this kind of stuff at some point; as a business model, basing the quality of your league on aging stars and young, homegrown talent wanting to play in North America (or, more often than not, not good enough to go overseas) is almost destined to fail at some point.

All this is predicated on the belief that MLS wants to eventually become one of the top leagues in the world, which I think is pretty much a given.

Up to now, I'd say the MLS model has been successful in encouraging slow, cautious growth, but now I think it is becoming more of a hinderance on growth than a benefit; I look forward to big things in the 2010 meeting. :p

[Oldtimer]

Again, look at Angel. It's all about proper scouting. Denilson was SHIT scouting. People knock the DP's when really the clubs have nobody to blame but themselves.

Let's see what Mo is able to do!

Ljungberg isn't looking too hot, either. I doubt Seattle is going to get their money's worth.

[wzhxvy]

This is nuts. These guys can not even do PR right. They get Paul to do MO's dirty work. Then that backfires, then they leak the opposite. What a joke and if they think anyone buys any of this blatently tranparent BS. The TFC FO is real life version of the Office.

[Parkdale]

"good things come to those who wait" but I've been waiting, and waiting, and I don't want to wait anymore.

If nothing occurs this season, I will be infuriated....


but what can you do? Cancel your season tickets?

or maybe just bang your head against a wall?

[Super]

Ljungberg isn't looking too hot, either. I doubt Seattle is going to get their money's worth.

Injuries can happen to anybody. That's no excuse not to invest. Who dares wins!

[Shakes McQueen]

Up to now, I'd say the MLS model has been successful in encouraging slow, cautious growth, but now I think it is becoming more of a hinderance on growth than a benefit; I look forward to big things in the 2010 meeting. :p

I look forward to a likely hike in the salary cap. However, given the economic situation that most of North America is in, I don't expect much else.

That slow cautious approach to growth is probably a good thing in these times, unfortunately. The NBA, NHL, and NBA are all running into financial problems right now.

- Scott

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Injuries can happen to anybody. That's no excuse not to invest. Who dares wins!


sure but do you want to invest in a company that is frequently broke (or a player that is frequently injured).
I sure as fuck dont

[Pachuco]

sure but do you want to invest in a company that is frequently broke (or a player that is frequently injured).
I sure as fuck dont

Who says that's what we need to invest in? I don't get it. Most people associate DP with aging European player coming to cash in and retire. That's fine if that's what you expect MLSE to do, but that's not what I expect. I would be just as pisssed if they sign some old European player that is injury prone or if they didn't sign anyone at all. We are simple bitching the MLSE has the money to spend on a quality player and they don't seem to be taking advantage of that.

[Cashcleaner]

Who says that's what we need to invest in? I don't get it. Most people associate DP with aging European player coming to cash in and retire. That's fine if that's what you expect MLSE to do, but that's not what I expect. I would be just as pisssed if they sign some old European player that is injury prone or if they didn't sign anyone at all. We are simple bitching the MLSE has the money to spend on a quality player and they don't seem to be taking advantage of that.

Someone who "gets it". You've nailed it on the head, Pachuco.

Indeed, people are thinking that a DP is going to be some over-the-hill EPL veteran that's gonna be prone to injury or will act out like a prima donna in the locker room. Believe the nightmare stories all you want, but throughout the world there are a handful of quality players who might like a shot at playing in North America and would look forward to contributing their skill to a team like Toronto.

[Beach_Red]

^ you're right, but as you say, it's only a "handful" of players. The odds are really quite high against finding a DP that's the right fit.

I want the team to find one, but I want them to win the Canadian Championships and I want to go to a playoff game at BMO whether they find a DP or not.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I dont give a shit how old or where our DP is from i just expect them to be unbelieveably effective for our team on the field.

Please reread my post, it was a response to someone else who said a DP is an investment (which isnt entirely untrue).