Toronto FC not getting a DP until the season

[ben_vw]

It's not the end of the world...

http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/01/07/5534.aspx

[Parkdale]

somewhat misleading title there Ben.

Toronto FC won't get DP before season starts

[ben_vw]

then fix it Mike. :)

[ACSertL]

somewhat misleading title there Ben.

Toronto FC won't get DP before season starts

That's the hallmark of a great headline ;)

I agree with Kristian Jack on pretty much all of the points. Wait till the summer and see what the options are. Besides, the contract would be pro-rated as well wouldn't it?

[Roogsy]

Is that our Chewy commenting on the Footy blog? If so I agree with him. I am not as expectant for a DP as I am some solid moves. If Mo brings in somebody to shore up the backline, at this point I am willing to see what this team does. Maybe after the European season ends, we could talk about picking up a goal-scorer if we are still having problem putting it in the back of the net. What I want is some consistency and some gelling by the team at the start of the season unlike the debacle that was last off-season.

[Parkdale]

then fix it Mike. :)


naw.... you've got the formula down right. Bring them in with an exciting headline, then break it to them softly.

[olegunnar]

Thank you DeRo.

Your hijacked pay increase will be taken from the 1st half of the season's DP cap hit. roughly $200,000

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Didnt carver swear to the death...if there was no DP coming in...he was out of here!?


have we improved going into our third season........sure we have by bringing in DERO....but will it be enough to challenge for the title?

We will be fighting for our lives to make the playoffs!

The only gurantee will come at seasons end...when TFC announce the ticket prices will be going up again..for year 4

[invictusTFC]

I wouldn't be upset if we didn't sign a DP. Lets face it, a DP is a huge salary cap hit, and not many clubs with a DP have not been hugely successful. As Kristian Jack states, "the club already have a lot of money invested in players that does not give them too much flexibilty to have another $400,000 cap hit." I would rather the club invest in a solid CB and forward around the $200-300k range. The addition of DeRo was huge and should help out the offense, now all the team has to do is shore up the back end with some experience.

[Shakes McQueen]

While I don't necessarily disagree with Kristian's assessment, I don't see any evidence our sources cited in his article, that categorically states there will not be a DP.

- Scott

[tfc]

guys, we shouldn't be blaming dero, we should blame the stupid mls cap. Mo is trying to build a strong team, where every player has an important role in our success, not just two or three outstanding players with a bunch of duds. its hard to do that when the cap is 2.3mm bucks or whatever. we should also be happy that guys are taking paycuts, or being flexible in their salaries so we can achieve this success. if we can pull in a solid veteran defender or two, i have a feeling we will make the playoffs this year, especially if we see some standout performances in wynne and barrett, both of whom i think will have great seasons

[Stryker]

Thank you DeRo.

Your hijacked pay increase will be taken from the 1st half of the season's DP cap hit. roughly $200,000

I guess watching Episode 3 has me drawing Anakin Skywalker comparisons. "You were the chosen one".

[flatpicker]

Before DeRo came into the picture I was supportive of the DP scenario.
But now I am not anxious for it.
I think there is enough room under the cap now to get a decent striker and defender without using up DP money.
Once that happens I think Toronto will be in a good position to challenge for the title.
Go find them Mo and Carver!

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Before DeRo came into the picture I was supportive of the DP scenario.
But now I am not anxious for it.
I think there is enough room under the cap now to get a decent striker and defender without using up DP money.
Once that happens I think Toronto will be in a good position to challenge for the title.
Go find them Mo and Carver!

He's apparently in Brazil as we speak.....;)

[flatpicker]

^ I have heard they play soccer in Brazil... is that true?

[T_Mizz]

I think we should have a solid team for sure with the young'ens stepping up and some veterns with the experience we need. But most importantly, Mo will deal away our draft picks and bring in some more seasoned vets. I think this whole DP in the summer thing will work out as we won't have to pay a transfer fee and it will be less of a cap hit, and I'm still not sure what position we need a DP for anyway. I think its entirely possible that we might need the first DP CB.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Oh well....the DP thing had my blood pumpin......i still have faith in MO......putting together a solid team for..09!

[tfc]

I think we should have a solid team for sure with the young'ens stepping up and some veterns with the experience we need. But most importantly, Mo will deal away our draft picks and bring in some more seasoned vets. I think this whole DP in the summer thing will work out as we won't have to pay a transfer fee and it will be less of a cap hit, and I'm still not sure what position we need a DP for anyway. I think its entirely possible that we might need the first DP CB.

I was also under the impression Mo was looking at Hume as a potential DP before he got injured... Not sure when he was supposed to be playing again, but he may also be waiting to see whether the injury will affect his play before he brings him in ... if hes still interested in him, that is.

[Super]

I was personally hoping for a DP striker. I worry we'll walk into another season with goalscoring problems. I'd hate to go through that again.

[reggie]

oh well....there is always porn for some DP action....

[ginkster88]

Our chances haven't changed in the slightest. As Paul said, it has to be the right player. Who that is is another matter, but it just so happens that the right player is not available right now. If he were, you can bet that he would be signed. If it still looks like they can't sign their guy mid-season, they won't sign a DP mid-season. The lesser cap hit this year is attractive, but irrelevant; you would hope that a DP would play for more than one year, and he would still be a $400 000 number in 2010 (they could be hoping for a salary cap increase, but if not they would be in the same situation cap-wise a year from now if they were to sign a DP now or wait until the summer). It is all a matter of the right player, the only timing that is involved is when that player comes available.

[ilikemusic]

I am absolutely shocked!!!


:lol:


I didnt think I would be as cynical about this team so fast, but here we are. :lol:


'We have to find the right guy' has been this team's story since day 1!

Why make any announcements ever if nothing has changed?

So is Carver gone now because he isnt getting his DP?

I mean holy effin crap. This is a friggin sideshow.

Though I must give Paul and MLSE credit. They certainly do know when they have hit the jackpot. We (and I include myself as a paying season ticket holder) are all suckers and they know it very well.

[olegunnar]

Our chances haven't changed in the slightest. As Paul said, it has to be the right player. Who that is is another matter, but it just so happens that the right player is not available right now. If he were, you can bet that he would be signed. If it still looks like they can't sign their guy mid-season, they won't sign a DP mid-season. The lesser cap hit this year is attractive, but irrelevant; you would hope that a DP would play for more than one year, and he would still be a $400 000 number in 2010 (they could be hoping for a salary cap increase, but if not they would be in the same situation cap-wise a year from now if they were to sign a DP now or wait until the summer). It is all a matter of the right player, the only timing that is involved is when that player comes available.

I think you're missing the underlying issue

In Oct-Dec it was guarenteed we'd have a DP for the start of the season.
Recently we found out the first week of January was going to be the unveiling. Dobson, Knight, all sorts of people reported that.

Then we start to get nervous about the silence on the DeRo side of things and we get told it's a $$ thing...and at the same time we get told...forget about the Jan 5th announcement.

Sweet Own Goal and others have tracked this story down and have gotten so close to the truth, Bierne has to put out some damage control to protect his player and head off the "we didn't get Thiery Henry because DeRo is greedy" kind of talk.

So now we get the spin from the club...oh "we have to find the right guy"...pfffft. At least they're smart enough not to have Mo be the BS artist anymore.

The money was there for DeRo (at his current wage) and a DP. Now that it seems Dero wants to renegotiate and grab some allocation money, we don't have the money for a full season of DP. Coincidence?

I'm not out to get DeRo, I just like to be treated like an adult.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Didnt carver swear to the death...if there was no DP coming in...he was out of here!?


have we improved going into our third season........sure we have by bringing in DERO....but will it be enough to challenge for the title?

We will be fighting for our lives to make the playoffs!

The only gurantee will come at seasons end...when TFC announce the ticket prices will be going up again..for year 4

Yes he did!! I HATE THE FACT WE ARE NOT GETTING A DP!!!!!


THIS SUCKS! THE WOOL IS BEING PULLED OVER OUR EYES AGAIN!!

:mad::mad::mad:

:mad::mad::mad:

:mad::mad::mad:

[canadian_bhoy]

I am dissapointed - not because it was promissed or because I want to see a "star", but because a DP would strengthen our squad.

IMO - the club should be using all resources possible to improve the club and get us to the MLS Cup, including finding a DP and securing.

What sort of impact would a 15 goal scorer add to our club? It'd be huge.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I am absolutely shocked!!!


:lol:


I didnt think I would be as cynical about this team so fast, but here we are. :lol:


'We have to find the right guy' has been this team's story since day 1!

Why make any announcements ever if nothing has changed?

So is Carver gone now because he isnt getting his DP?

I mean holy effin crap. This is a friggin sideshow.

Though I must give Paul and MLSE credit. They certainly do know when they have hit the jackpot. We (and I include myself as a paying season ticket holder) are all suckers and they know it very well.


YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT!

I am super pissed right now!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[ilikemusic]

I am dissapointed - not because it was promissed or because I want to see a "star", but because a DP would strengthen our squad.

I am disappointed because management and ownership talks to the fans (the people who have made this pathetic franchise a success) in nothing but platitudes, lip-service and double speak.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!

i Just Want To Scream Bloody Murder!!!!!!!!

THIS SUCKS.:hulk::sheep::puke::dupe::violin:

[olegunnar]

I am disappointed because management and ownership talks to the fans (the people who have made this pathetic franchise a success) in nothing but platitudes, lip-service and double speak.

+1

I agree 100%. That's my beef with all of this. Be straight forward. Treat us the paying customers like adults.

Not all of us are internet dweebs that can be herded and placated by as little as a complimentary post on a message board.

[flatpicker]

I think some of you are getting carried away with the negative comments here.
If we didn't have DeRo then yes, I would be upset at not getting a DP.
But we have made a solid acquisition and he is the one we should add the supportive pieces around.
To me, DeRo is a worthy substitute for a DP.

[Super]

True, the more I think about it the angrier I get. For a team that has struggled to score goals it's odd for management to say "It has to be the right guy". Well, clearly at this point it can't get much worse up front. No disrespect to Dichio, but he's not the type of striker to score 20 a season. Barrett, either. If TFC can't find the right guy they'll have failed us all. That doesn't mean we can't make the play-off's, but clearly they made it sound as though one was on the way, and Carver himself said he was leaving if one didn't come our way.

It's possible, of course, that this article is bogus. One can only hope.

[olegunnar]

On the bright side though.

IF giant IF we get a DP in June...it will coincide and hopefully cancel out our annual summer swoon where we can't score.

[Beach_Red]

^ I have heard they play soccer in Brazil... is that true?

Yes, they play soccer, but luckily they have no idea how much a good player is worth....

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I think some of you are getting carried away with the negative comments here.
If we didn't have DeRo then yes, I would be upset at not getting a DP.
But we have made a solid acquisition and he is the one we should add the supportive pieces around.
To me, DeRo is a worthy substitute for a DP.


NO WAY!! DeRo IS NOT A DP!!!

I want a DP!! Thats what was promised and i want it! We need a proven goal scoring machine!!

[Roogsy]

I agree Flats. The acquisition of DeRo signalled to me a willingness to improve the team and that is what I am looking for. If Mo continues to "trade" and gets a couple of solid CBs to shore up the backline, what are we getting upset about? To me that would be a team that can compete for a playoff spot, which is how I am measuring this team. Not an MLS Cup. That isn't reasonable in my mind.

To me it makes no sense to get all worked up in the middle of January when we haven't even had the draft yet! And we don't know what Mo is up to! So long as we don't head into the start of the season like last year, still plugging holes, I will be fine without a DP. For real people...the middle of January and we are already frothing at the mouth?

[Roogsy]

NO WAY!! DeRo IS NOT A DP!!!

I want a DP!! Thats what was promised and i want it! We need a proven goal scoring machine!!

A DP was never "promised". At least not from management. Carver wants one and made noise about it, but he's not the one signing players and therefore isn't the one in a position to "promise" anything.

[Beach_Red]

I am dissapointed - not because it was promissed or because I want to see a "star", but because a DP would strengthen our squad.

IMO - the club should be using all resources possible to improve the club and get us to the MLS Cup, including finding a DP and securing.

What sort of impact would a 15 goal scorer add to our club? It'd be huge.

A DP would only stregnthen the squad in the right conditions, no? When they said they would get a DP they didn't think they really had a shot at DeRo - when that trade happened (and DeRo asked for a raise) that would change things, wouldn't it? Before the DeRo trade did they think they were going to add another player near the top of the pay scale?

Besides, Barrett's going to score 15 this year ;).

The question really is, ho wmany more games will we lose or end up tied in the final five minutes?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I agree Flats. The acquisition of DeRo signalled to me a willingness to improve the team and that is what I am looking for. If Mo continues to "trade" and gets a couple of solid CBs to shore up the backline, what are we getting upset about? To me that would be a team that can compete for a playoff spot, which is how I am measuring this team. Not an MLS Cup. That isn't reasonable in my mind.

To me it makes no sense to get all worked up in the middle of January when we haven't even had the draft yet! And we don't know what Mo is up to! So long as we don't head into the start of the season like last year, still plugging holes, I will be fine without a DP. For real people...the middle of January and we are already frothing at the mouth?


What about all the problems that we have endured through the last 2 years!?? What about the PROMISE'S that were made!?! What about our severe Goal scoring problem!?? You think DeRo is a magical god!? NO WAY, HE'S NOT!

We were promised a DP!

[THA BUTCHA]

here's what I wrote on the blog:

Gotta love this back pedaling from TFC.
I dont have the quotes but I remember the team saying that a DP was a guarantee for this season.

I'm not that concerned about the team breaking there promise cause I'm sure they are trying/tried to get a DP player to help with TFC notoriously poor offence. What concerns me is WHY they haven't been able to lock a DP for this season.

We know that it isn't money cause MLSE has given them the green light to use a large amount of cash to sign someone that MOJO think will help the team.

I think it cause down to......

GRASS.

they are unable to sign anyone of relevance because anybody with half a brian and any respect for his body would never choose to play on that used up crap that thay have installed @ BMO Field.

What's worst is that as long as the FIELD TURF remains TFC will NEVER be the premiere North American Footballing Club that it should and deserves to be.

PS. I'm willing to spend 25% more for my tickets "JUST GET SOME GRASS" FFS

[Roogsy]

What about all the problems that we have endured through the last 2 years!?? What about the PROMISE'S that were made!?! What about our severe Goal scoring problem!?? You think DeRo is a magical god!? NO WAY, HE'S NOT!

We were promised a DP!

Please find me a quote with these supposed promises.

[Keyman]

The only thing I will be angry with is if the club uses De Rosario as a cheap substitute for a designated player. If that's their thinking, well then fuck you TFC FO!

However, I highly doubt that this is the case.

[AL-MO]

I think some of you are getting carried away with the negative comments here.
If we didn't have DeRo then yes, I would be upset at not getting a DP.
But we have made a solid acquisition and he is the one we should add the supportive pieces around.
To me, DeRo is a worthy substitute for a DP.

We still need a proven goal scorer Flatz.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

A DP would only stregnthen the squad in the right conditions, no? When they said they would get a DP they didn't think they really had a shot at DeRo - when that trade happened (and DeRo asked for a raise) that would change things, wouldn't it? Before the DeRo trade did they think they were going to add another player near the top of the pay scale?

Besides, Barrett's going to score 15 this year ;).

The question really is, ho wmany more games will we lose or end up tied in the final five minutes?

No disrespect or anything, but you always seem to be making excuses and keep saying "it has to be the right player" or "give it 6 months" or "maybe in a couple of years"

come on, honestly i could've sworn you wanted a dp at one point!? and now your changing your tune?? :cool:

[Oldtimer]

I'm not that happy, I was hoping that they'd found one of the rare DPs that can really be a help.

that being said, everything he says makes sense. I just wonder if they were planning to bring in a DP ($400K cap hit) at the beginning of the season, but will move it to mid-season ($200K cap hit) because of DeRo's extra $200k in salary demands?

[THA BUTCHA]

, DeRo is a worthy substitute for a DP.

I agree but having him on our squad does nothing to solve the number one problem that this team has had since it inception.

SCORING GOALS...

thats what the DP was for...

[Nodoubtguy]

Paul.....Any insight??

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Please find me a quote with these supposed promises.

come on roogsy thats easy! September 2008

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/499730 (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/499730)



Yesterday he all but promised when TFC kicks off the 2009 regular season, they'll do it with a roster that includes at least one designated player.
Carver's aware that over the last 18 months local fans have experienced several designated player false alarms, but unlike before Carver believes the time is right for TFC to add a high-priced impact player.
Last week Carver announced he planned to return to Toronto next season, and after Saturday's game he expressed confidence that the current lineup – when not dented by injury or international duty – can compete with the league's best.
Yesterday he rhymed off a list of improvements the organization had made, from scouting to coaching to the weight room, and decided there's only one area remaining for TFC to show improvement.
"The biggest upgrade has to come on the pitch," he said. "I know what I've got and I know what we need to do to upgrade. ... The only way this club is going to go forward ... is to produce the goods now."
Not mentioning names or whether negotiations had begun, Carver said he and GM Mo Johnston had identified at least one DP candidate and sounded beyond confident one of them would sign with TFC.
"It's going to happen," Carver said.
Sometimes called the "Beckham Rule," Major League Soccer's designated player rule allows each team to sign one player at any salary, yet only count $400,000 of his pay against the league's salary cap.

[olegunnar]

I'm not that happy, I was hoping that they'd found one of the rare DPs that can really be a help.

that being said, everything he says makes sense. I just wonder if they were planning to bring in a DP ($400K cap hit) at the beginning of the season, but will move it to mid-season ($200K cap hit) because of DeRo's extra $200k in salary demands?

This post is how I know you have me on ignore! :D

[Super]

It might work out just the same. But let's be honest here, if we hit a series of games with no goals everyone will be looking at management and blame them for not signing a DP striker. If, however, management signs a DP and goals still don't materialize at least they'll be able to look back at us, the supporters, and say: hey, we got you the DP. Can't blame us now!

[Nodoubtguy]

Not that I don't like DeRo.....but he was not brought in as a DP, so if that ends up being the case....I'd be a little ticked off

[Parkdale]

it's going to be a LONG off season.


I'll start worrying about DP and contract talks in March. Until then, there's so many variables.

[Beach_Red]

No disrespect or anything, but you always seem to be making excuses and keep saying "it has to be the right player" or "give it 6 months" or "maybe in a couple of years"

come on, honestly i could've sworn you wanted a dp at one point!? and now your changing your tune?? :cool:

Absolutely, I want the best players possible, I want the best team possible.

And I hate this stupid DP rule - why can't they just raise the cap whatever the DP would get and spend it on however many players they want? Making one guy "designated" is a recipe for disaster in a team sport.

But yeah, as long as the stupid rule is in place, I want them to use it. But I don't mind waiting till June if they have a line on someone who could really help then.

Let's face it, the DP will be older, he'll play on the turf and he'll get hurt. As Olegunnar says, if he comes in June, maybe he can get us through July (has this team ever won a game in July?) and maybe even be healthy for the playoffs.

[Pigfynn]

I'm not in any way panicking just yet, it's early days. I will say that I don't think that a Barret, Dichio, Ibby strike force is going to cut it at all. They can't provide enough goals for a championship....maybe just make the playoffs type thing...might be all they are interested in though. :(

[tfc]

No disrespect or anything, but you always seem to be making excuses and keep saying "it has to be the right player" or "give it 6 months" or "maybe in a couple of years"

come on, honestly i could've sworn you wanted a dp at one point!? and now your changing your tune?? :cool:

dude, you make it sound like all it takes is to run your finger down a list of guys out of favour in the prem and call them up.

bierne makes a very very valid point in saying it has to be the right player. we have a good thing going with our locker room, there is no way i want a guy in there regardless of his status as dp if he is going to be a giant prick and piss people off.

not only that, but our salary cap complicates the process even more, having to jiggle peoples salaries to allow for a dp.

no offense, but your making your judgement based on emotion, not reason or logic.

[MG42]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/09/15/torontofc-designated-player.html



Carver insists he hasn't thrown in the towel on the current campaign, but he has talked to general manager Mo Johnston about ways they can improve the club for the next season. The top priority is signing a designated player.
"I'll guarantee you that this will definitely happen by the start of next season. I'm guaranteeing it," Carver told reporters Monday afternoon.
Carver wouldn't confirm whether club management has begun to negotiate with potential DP candidates, but he did say the team has "earmarked a couple of players" that it would like to sign.
"We've already started planning for it. We are now thinking about what we're going to do next year. How can we take this on to another level," Carver said.
"The conversations we've had, without going into detail, is that it's going to happen. The time is right now to bring in at least one DP, if not two."


Fire the Liar? :lol:

[Parkdale]

, there is no way i want a guy in there regardless of his status as dp if he is going to be a giant prick and piss people off.


exactly.

Ruiz wasn't exactly DP quality, but there were some very high hopes for him, and look how that turned out.

[Super]

bierne makes a very very valid point in saying it has to be the right player. we have a good thing going with our locker room, there is no way i want a guy in there regardless of his status as dp if he is going to be a giant prick and piss people off.

No problem, Cunningham isn't a DP anyway :D

[Beach_Red]

It might work out just the same. But let's be honest here, if we hit a series of games with no goals everyone will be looking at management and blame them for not signing a DP striker. If, however, management signs a DP and goals still don't materialize at least they'll be able to look back at us, the supporters, and say: hey, we got you the DP. Can't blame us now!

And really, signing a 'name' DP is probably easier than building a winning team. They could easily sign a striker, even get 15 goals from him, and still lose games in the last five minutes.

I will still blame them, though....;)

[Roogsy]

I agree but having him on our squad does nothing to solve the number one problem that this team has had since it inception.

SCORING GOALS...

thats what the DP was for...

I agree with the problem of scoring goals, and yes DeRo isn't exactly a 15 goal scorer. But what DeRo brings may help the rest of the team score goals. Who do we have now?

Dichio, when healthy this guy can give us 6-7 a year.
Barrett, coming along nicely, I think he can also give us 6-7 a year, maybe more!
Guevara, with DeRo in the middle, Amado will have more room. Instead of 3 or 4 goals, he can also bump his production to 6-7 goals a year!
DeRo himself can be counted on for a few, coupled with Guevara, I think DeRo can give us 4-5 goals next year.
Rohan gave us 4 last year, I think he can also produce another 4-5 this year.

Between these 5 forwards, we have a possible 30+ goals for the season! And even better, it's spread out among several players which means teams will have a difficult time concentrating on one player because the others can burn them too.

Last year we scored 34 goals. You could argue that you need 40 goals or more to have a potent offence, with playoff capability. Meaning the rest of the squad would need to come up with 10 goals. Is that doable? I say yes. Even without a DP! That is what DeRo brings. Yeah, he isn't a 15 goal scorer...but like Dichio, his presence on the pitch changes things, makes the team better. And if bringing him in leaves room for Mo to bring in a couple of solid CBs that will bring down our total goals against....then I will guarantee a playoff spot next year.

And that is what I wanted.

[Parkdale]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/09/15/torontofc-designated-player.html

Fire the Liar? :lol:

I'd drop Mo long before Carver.

[tfc]

No problem, Cunningham isn't a DP anyway :D

thank god haha :D

[olegunnar]

Any mention/guarentees of DP signings after Oct 3rd?

[DOMIN8R]

I can put up with no DP. I don't like it - but I can put up with it.

But the argument that "....the chemistry in the locker room is really good right now and we dont' want to mess with it...." just doesn't hold water. The locker room had the same great chemistry last season and where did it get us? Oh yeah, second last! So the chemistry, although important, did not help the team achieve much sucess. So why is important to preserve it this season? Who honestly believes that keep the "great chemistry" is going to help us move from the bottom to the top of the table?

[THA BUTCHA]

bierne makes a very very valid point in saying it has to be the right player.

YA. the one willing to play on our pitch..

[Super]

Well, I feel bad for Carver. He made it quite clear that he will leave the club if he doesn't get a DP by the start of the season. I'd hate to see him go, but I'd also hate for him to look whipped going into the next season. It's a really bad situation. At least, if we don't get a DP, tell us all that you tried - management. Don't just say that we don't need one.

[Oldtimer]

This post is how I know you have me on ignore! :D

Not true, you just wrote your post faster than I did! :D

There's only one poster on these boards worth ignoring - giambac.

[AL-MO]

it's going to be a LONG off season.


I'll start worrying about DP and contract talks in March. Until then, there's so many variables.

You know the season starts in March right?

[Lucky Strike]

I agree with the problem of scoring goals, and yes DeRo isn't exactly a 15 goal scorer. But what DeRo brings may help the rest of the team score goals. Who do we have now?

Dichio, when healthy this guy can give us 6-7 a year.
Barrett, coming along nicely, I think he can also give us 6-7 a year, maybe more!
Guevara, with DeRo in the middle, Amado will have more room. Instead of 3 or 4 goals, he can also bump his production to 6-7 goals a year!
DeRo himself can be counted on for a few, coupled with Guevara, I think DeRo can give us 4-5 goals next year.
Rohan gave us 4 last year, I think he can also produce another 4-5 this year.

Between these 5 forwards, we have a possible 30+ goals for the season! And even better, it's spread out among several players which means teams will have a difficult time concentrating on one player because the others can burn them too.

Last year we scored 34 goals. You could argue that you need 40 goals or more to have a potent offence, with playoff capability. Meaning the rest of the squad would need to come up with 10 goals. Is that doable? I say yes. Even without a DP! That is what DeRo brings. Yeah, he isn't a 15 goal scorer...but like Dichio, his presence on the pitch changes things, makes the team better. And if bringing him in leaves room for Mo to bring in a couple of solid CBs that will bring down our total goals against....then I will guarantee a playoff spot next year.

And that is what I wanted.

Actually Barrett scored 9 goals and had 7 assists. I figure he can be good for 10 goals and a similar number of assists this year. That's not insignificant. Nevertheless, I still want a guy who can score at least 15.

[olegunnar]

Not true, you just wrote your post faster than I did! :D

There's only one poster on these boards worth ignoring - giambac.


I was just messing:drinking:

[Beach_Red]

I agree with the problem of scoring goals, and yes DeRo isn't exactly a 15 goal scorer. But what DeRo brings may help the rest of the team score goals. Who do we have now?

Dichio, when healthy this guy can give us 6-7 a year.
Barrett, coming along nicely, I think he can also give us 6-7 a year, maybe more!
Guevara, with DeRo in the middle, Amado will have more room. Instead of 3 or 4 goals, he can also bump his production to 6-7 goals a year!
DeRo himself can be counted on for a few, coupled with Guevara, I think DeRo can give us 4-5 goals next year.
Rohan gave us 4 last year, I think he can also produce another 4-5 this year.

Between these 5 forwards, we have a possible 30+ goals for the season! And even better, it's spread out among several players which means teams will have a difficult time concentrating on one player because the others can burn them too.

Last year we scored 34 goals. You could argue that you need 40 goals or more to have a potent offence, with playoff capability. Meaning the rest of the squad would need to come up with 10 goals. Is that doable? I say yes. Even without a DP! That is what DeRo brings. Yeah, he isn't a 15 goal scorer...but like Dichio, his presence on the pitch changes things, makes the team better. And if bringing him in leaves room for Mo to bring in a couple of solid CBs that will bring down our total goals against....then I will guarantee a playoff spot next year.

And that is what I wanted.

10 goals from the rest seems a little high (and Barrett will got more than 10), but the rest of this post makes far too much sense.

:drinking:

[MrHawk]

Just give them time to sign someone, it will happen.

[MG42]

Well, I feel bad for Carver. He made it quite clear that he will leave the club if he doesn't get a DP by the start of the season. I'd hate to see him go, but I'd also hate for him to look whipped going into the next season. It's a really bad situation. At least, if we don't get a DP, tell us all that you tried - management. Don't just say that we don't need one.


I'd hate to be Carver right now...are you a man of your word, or do you stay and appear to be someone who makes empty threats?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

dude, you make it sound like all it takes is to run your finger down a list of guys out of favour in the prem and call them up.

bierne makes a very very valid point in saying it has to be the right player. we have a good thing going with our locker room, there is no way i want a guy in there regardless of his status as dp if he is going to be a giant prick and piss people off.

not only that, but our salary cap complicates the process even more, having to jiggle peoples salaries to allow for a dp.

no offense, but your making your judgement based on emotion, not reason or logic.


Excuses Excuses Excuses!! I guess you never saw our goal scoring drought last year!??? I don't make it sound easy, TFC has had 2 years to scout for a DP!! 2 YEARS!!!

[AL-MO]

One way or another this team needs to add a proven goal scorer. Whether that is a DP or otherwise.

[THA BUTCHA]

I still want a guy who can score at least 15.


Agreed. If we could acquire a player that can score 15 goals + with everyone else playing as they should. I think we could contend for the Shield.

and we would do pretty good in CONCACAF aswell

[Pigfynn]

One way or another this team needs to add a proven goal scorer. Whether that is a DP or otherwise.

...and this may still happen from within the league. I say screw the draft! use the three picks to get 2 proven defenders and a striker from within MLS. Serioux, Conde and a 6-7 goal forward would do it

[Super]

NOW is the time to sign a DP striker. He'll need time to mesh with the team. You don't sign a player in March, or even June or July. That's bad timing. But fair enough, maybe no one wants to come to Toronto? Bad turf. Cold winter. Unknown city to most Europeans - compared to LA, Chicago and New York. Canada is not the same as the US in this regard.

[flatpicker]

We still need a proven goal scorer Flatz.

I'm not saying DeRo is the answer to all our problems.
But he is an important piece.
Obviously I think we need to add a striker and a CB.
But neither of them have to be a DP in order to be effective and improve our goal scoring significantly.

[canadian_bhoy]

Just give them time to sign someone, it will happen.

How's 3 years?

[Pigfynn]

oh and trade Marshall to Seattle for their 2nd pick which is what? the first 2nd rounder? probablt could still get O'brian White there.

I know, I know! why am I not the manager? lol

[ilikemusic]

exactly.

Ruiz wasn't exactly DP quality, but there were some very high hopes for him, and look how that turned out.

Seriously?

Who the hell had high hopes for Carlos Ruiz?

Anybody who followed MLS knew exactly what he was (or more specifically wasnt).

High hopes? :lol:

[Roogsy]

come on roogsy thats easy! September 2008

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/499730 (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/499730)

Sorry chief...that's not what we are looking for. This thread has been quite clear about separating Carver's guarantee from an actual promise. Carver can't guarantee jack shit. He's not signing anyone. He can put pressure on Mo and Paul to get things done, but other than quitting, Carver isn't the one that is bringing in the DP. Therefore, the promise has to come from Mo or Paul...and that has never happened. Shoot...even Tom Anselmi (if you were paying attention) at the kit launch was very careful to reduce expectations for a DP. Perhaps that is why I am not surprised that there probably won't be one signed by the start of the year. I don't think I ever expected one being as who would we want to sign anyways if they were free at the beginning of the MLS season?

I think the way the season develops will determine if we get a DP halfway through the season once Europe closes up shop. But if people were actually expecting a DP for the start of the MLS season, I don't think you were paying attention.

[TFC OZZ]

Begin Rant:

Honestly, I can't even explain how furious I am to hear this news. I feel let down, and almost lied to. Every since day fucking one of this team's existance they have used the DP slot as a marketing tool to increase public opinion during low times, and season seat renewals; the same can mostly be said for grass at BMO. This god damn bullshit about not being able to find "the right guy" has been used to the point where it's just cruel. The only thing preventing us from signing a DP is the fact that MLSE won't shell out the cash to do so, despite "approving" it in a boardroom meeting as far as I'm concerned. THere are hundreds, if not thousands of people who would fit the bill, but the price-tag is obviously significantly higher for them.

What makes me even angrier, is the fact that they say that the DP has a good potential to be a failure, and that we need to sign 3-4 players instead, who are all talented. My problem is that I don't believe that we will sign 3-4 talented players, honestly. I think the draft will occur, we'll get 2 guys who can play well, and then during training camp theyll bring in 1000 guys from butt-fuck nowhere who we won't sign, despite the fact that some of them will be talented. But the problem will remain exactly the same, WE NEED A FUCKING GOALSCORER, NOW. And then the season will begin, and we'll do decently, and during the summer transfer window they'll play up some big DP signing, and at the last minute they will say that he balked at the deal, OR they will bring in a piece of shit DP for like 900K, and our club will pretty much be in the same position as we're in now.

Oh wait, but we'll be able to think about the NEXT season the whole time, and good our team will eventually be, NEXT SEASON.

In all my time supporting this club I've never been so infuriated by news. Not completely because I had my heart set on a DP, but because I feel almost betrayed...

All I can say, is that I hope they prove me wrong, I have some faith in MO, and obviously if he CAN strengthen the squad with multiple players as opposed to the DP than that would be ideal, but until we ACTUALLY SIGN THE PLAYERS, and the season starts, FUCK YOU MLSE, get your act together.

End Rant.

[Beach_Red]

NOW is the time to sign a DP striker. He'll need time to mesh with the team. You don't sign a player in March, or even June or July. That's bad timing. But fair enough, maybe no one wants to come to Toronto? Bad turf. Cold winter. Unknown city to most Europeans - compared to LA, Chicago and New York. Canada is not the same as the US in this regard.

You may be right. It bothers me that TFC may have to pay a player much more than he would get in another city just to come here, but one of these days they'll have to do just that.

[sidvan]

Anselmi was backpedaling on DP at the kit party in his interview with Dobson. We saw it coming then, so we shouldn't be surprised now.

Still sucks though.

[tfc]

Begin Rant:

Honestly, I can't even explain how furious I am to hear this news. I feel let down, and almost lied to. Every since day fucking one of this team's existance they have used the DP slot as a marketing tool to increase public opinion during low times, and season seat renewals; the same can mostly be said for grass at BMO. This god damn bullshit about not being able to find "the right guy" has been used to the point where it's just cruel. The only thing preventing us from signing a DP is the fact that MLSE won't shell out the cash to do so, despite "approving" it in a boardroom meeting as far as I'm concerned. THere are hundreds, if not thousands of people who would fit the bill, but the price-tag is obviously significantly higher for them.

What makes me even angrier, is the fact that they say that the DP has a good potential to be a failure, and that we need to sign 3-4 players instead, who are all talented. My problem is that I don't believe that we will sign 3-4 talented players, honestly. I think the draft will occur, we'll get 2 guys who can play well, and then during training camp theyll bring in 1000 guys from butt-fuck nowhere who we won't sign, despite the fact that some of them will be talented. But the problem will remain exactly the same, WE NEED A FUCKING GOALSCORER, NOW. And then the season will begin, and we'll do decently, and during the summer transfer window they'll play up some big DP signing, and at the last minute they will say that he balked at the deal, OR they will bring in a piece of shit DP for like 900K, and our club will pretty much be in the same position as we're in now.

Oh wait, but we'll be able to think about the NEXT season the whole time, and good our team will eventually be, NEXT SEASON.

In all my time supporting this club I've never been so infuriated by news. Not completely because I had my heart set on a DP, but because I feel almost betrayed...

All I can say, is that I hope they prove me wrong, I have some faith in MO, and obviously if he CAN strengthen the squad with multiple players as opposed to the DP than that would be ideal, but until we ACTUALLY SIGN THE PLAYERS, and the season starts, FUCK YOU MLSE, get your act together.

End Rant.

haha dude, we still have months before the season starts, the draft hasn't occurred yet either. we have to get past that hurdle before we start bringing in other players.

[Nodoubtguy]

One way or another this team needs to add a proven goal scorer. Whether that is a DP or otherwise.

Thats it Alex....I don't care if we get a DP or not, as long as we get someone that can put the ball in

[THA BUTCHA]

But fair enough, maybe no one wants to come to Toronto? Bad turf. Cold winter. Unknown city to most Europeans - compared to LA, Chicago and New York. Canada is not the same as the US in this regard.


what bugs me is that TFC refuse to acknowelege the problem. Don't give me this "its gotta be the right player" crap.

TFC FO should treat the season ticket holders with respect.

ADMIT the FIELD TRUF is a hinderance to the team.
BUY BMO field from the city. Charge the season ticket holder base the SEAT LICENSING FEE.
Put in a grass field pitch.

[Roogsy]

10 goals from the rest seems a little high (and Barrett will got more than 10), but the rest of this post makes far too much sense.

:drinking:

Ah yes, I was corrected above...Barrett had 9 goals (since he joined us halfway). Does anyone here think he can't go 11-12 with DeRo behind him?

We are already well past the mid 30s. If between Robbo (good for one a year) and Jimmy B (good for one a year as well) we should get 3-4 goals from our defenders and maybe a couple from Ibby or whoever else is coming off the bench, we are well into the 40s at this point, which is historically what it takes to make it into the playoffs.

Maybe a taste of the playoffs, (the atmosphere plus the $$$ for the team/MLSE) will give the head honchos the impetus they need to drop the money sack for a DP.

At this point...a DP is not what I am looking at. What we need immediately, is to shore up that leaky back line.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Sorry chief...that's not what we are looking for. This thread has been quite clear about separating Carver's guarantee from an actual promise. Carver can't guarantee jack shit. He's not signing anyone. He can put pressure on Mo and Paul to get things done, but other than quitting, Carver isn't the one that is bringing in the DP. Therefore, the promise has to come from Mo or Paul...and that has never happened. Shoot...even Tom Anselmi (if you were paying attention) at the kit launch was very careful to reduce expectations for a DP. Perhaps that is why I am not surprised that there probably won't be one signed by the start of the year. I don't think I ever expected one being as who would we want to sign anyways if they were free at the beginning of the MLS season?

I think the way the season develops will determine if we get a DP halfway through the season once Europe closes up shop. But if people were actually expecting a DP for the start of the MLS season, I don't think you were paying attention.

:drinking::drinking::drinking: one two many in fantasyland for ya'

[The Kingpin]

Hello ladies and gentlemen! I hope you all had a wonderful New Year!

So here we go, and let's be honest, the individuals who are letting their emotions get into a knot need a sip from the cup of reality on this one. I'm not saying in any way that I disagree, but how we all couldn't see this coming is beyond me. I, like you, was very excited by the sighting of DeRosario. I was so excited that I decided to even start a new thread (which was subsequently deleted even though it was different from the other six going at the time). It was this excitement that the club was looking to induce as it would promote Toronto FC to the masses whilst increasing jersey sales. This to me was a great idea, I bought into it and it distracted me as well.

But I must admit, I thought there would be more to come. There still may be, but as many have said, to be placated like a child would really sully the key move already made. As has been noted, the scoring will simply not be enough. Expecting goal increases from aging players would not be a bet I would be willing to make. History tells us so. There may be aberrations, but the stats over 150 years of sporting history tells us the ultimate truth.

There is the need for added scoring first and foremost, that we all know. I'd be interested to see how this can happen without a very highly rated forward. I'm not going to jump the gun here, but let's be honest, the history has been poor... No matter how short it is. You have been given your wish, his name is DeRosario, sometimes we do need to be careful what we wish for. Just my initial reactionary thoughts...

[Roogsy]

:drinking::drinking::drinking: one two many in fantasyland for ya'

What fantasyland is that? Prove me wrong.

Does Carver sign players? No. Yet he is the one you quoted as promising us a DP.

Did Mo or Paul make a promise for a DP? No. Yet they are the ones with the control of the purse-strings.

Sounds to me like you are the one in fantasyland hearing what you want to hear. When Carver made that guarantee my first thought was "Why isn't Mo saying this instead of Carver?" If you didn't ask yourself that question...then you failed to look at the big picture.

[Roogsy]

You have been given your wish, his name is DeRosario, sometimes we do need to be careful what we wish for. Just my initial reactionary thoughts...

I have to agree with the Kingpin. If we thought we were getting DeRo AND a DP, I think we were fooling ourselves.

[AL-MO]

Hello ladies and gentlemen! I hope you all had a wonderful New Year!

So here we go, and let's be honest, the individuals who are letting their emotions get into a knot need a sip from the cup of reality on this one. I'm not saying in any way that I disagree, but how we all couldn't see this coming is beyond me. I, like you, was very excited by the sighting of DeRosario. I was so excited that I decided to even start a new thread (which was subsequently deleted even though it was different from the other six going at the time). It was this excitement that the club was looking to induce as it would promote Toronto FC to the masses whilst increasing jersey sales. This to me was a great idea, I bought into it and it distracted me as well.

But I must admit, I thought there would be more to come. There still may be, but as many have said, to be placated like a child would really sully the key move already made. As has been noted, the scoring will simply not be enough. Expecting goal increases from aging players would not be a bet I would be willing to make. History tells us so. There may be aberrations, but the stats over 150 years of sporting history tells us the ultimate truth.

There is the need for added scoring first and foremost, that we all know. I'd be interested to see how this can happen without a very highly rated forward. I'm not going to jump the gun here, but let's be honest, the history has been poor... No matter how short it is. You have been given your wish, his name is DeRosario, sometimes we do need to be careful what we wish for. Just my initial reactionary thoughts...

You couldn't get through one post without taking a shot at someone.

[Pigfynn]

Kenny Cooper is not a DP

Emilio wasn't a DP for a couple of years right?

Doesn't HAVE to be a DP....just someone better at finishing then what we have now. With DeRo in the mix that would be enough.

There will be tons of chances, just need the finish.

[ilikemusic]

What fantasyland is that? Prove me wrong.

Does Carver sign players? No. Yet he is the one you quoted as promising us a DP.

Did Mo or Paul make a promise for a DP? No. Yet they are the ones with the control of the purse-strings.

Sounds to me like you are the one in fantasyland hearing what you want to hear. When Carver made that guarantee my first thought was "Why isn't Mo saying this instead of Carver?" If you didn't ask yourself that question...then you failed to look at the big picture.

Shouldnt management and the head coach be at least somewhat on the same page?

If I ask myself now 'Why did Carver and not Mo say anything a DP' the only answer I can come up with is that the franchise wants to talk out of both sides of it's mouth. Let Carver play the good cop and tell the fans what they want to hear, knowing full well what the club's true intentions are.

Carver and Mo are both supposed to have the teams best intersts in mind, and I would think that the two of them being on the same page is a big part to any potential success. So either Mo and JC lied to us on purpose, or they are working against each instead of with each other. I thinks its more likely the latter.

Again. They communicate to us in nothing but platitudes and double speak.

[Shaughno]

Fuck the DP for the start of the season. Trade for Will Johnson and a solid CB. Pick up another CB either in the draft or through trade.

That's really all I think needs to be done. Add a goal scorer and solidify the backline (priority IMO).

[Shaughno]

Should management and the head coach be at least somewhat on the same page?

If I ask myself now 'Why did Carver and not Mo say anything a DP' the only answer I can come up with is that the franchise wants to talk out of both sides of it's mouth. Let Carver play the good cop and tell the fans what they want to hear, knowing full well that the club's true intentions are.

Again. They speak to us in nothing but platitudes and double speak.


Or... you know, maybe they just haven't found a player that a) wants to play here b) will come for the right money c) is worth spending the time, money and effort on bringing them in.

I'd rather not sign a DP just for the sake of it. Sign one that will make a large impact, or don't sign one at all.

[deltox]

2 things

if i was working for TFC/MLSE and i wanted the DP sigining to be a big deal...and if there was all this talk about it (like there was) i would let something slip about there not being a DP at all....that way it would have more impact when there is a DP signing


secondly, so if there is indeed no DP, i still want my DERO press conference bitch

[Pigfynn]

Why does everyone seem to think a DP is what we need? DP just means lots of money being paid, it guarantees nothing. Denilson was a fucking DP!

Bring in a goal getter and a CB...proven....at this level. We kid ourselves if we think they need to be proven at a higher level, they don't.

Look at Columbus, who the fuck are those guys? There's no one there that's that special other then mulatard.

Calm down.

[invictusTFC]

Fuck the DP for the start of the season. Trade for Will Johnson and a solid CB. Pick up another CB either in the draft or through trade.

That's really all I think needs to be done. Add a goal scorer and solidify the backline (priority IMO).

Sounds like what I said on this thread 3 pages ago... I don't know how ppl expect to sign DeRo, a DP and an exprienced CB (because they grow on trees and cost next to nothing) and still be under the cap even with the allocation money we have...

[ilikemusic]

Or... you know, maybe they just haven't found a player that a) wants to play here b) will come for the right money c) is worth spending the time, money and effort on bringing them in.

I'd rather not sign a DP just for the sake of it. Sign one that will make a large impact, or don't sign one at all.

Id rather management not continually dangle the proverbial carrot of a DP in front of the fans fans for a third year in a row.

And I would rather the head coach not rant to the media about getting a DP.

If he knew the conditions of probablity of a DP, then he shouldnt have said anything about getting one.

If he didnt know the conditions or probability of a DP then one has got to woner, just what the hell is going on with the TFC top brass?!

[Roogsy]

Shouldnt management and the head coach be at least somewhat on the same page?

If I ask myself now 'Why did Carver and not Mo say anything a DP' the only answer I can come up with is that the franchise wants to talk out of both sides of it's mouth. Let Carver play the good cop and tell the fans what they want to hear, knowing full well what the club's true intentions are.

Carver and Mo are both supposed to have the teams best intersts in mind, and I would think that the two of them being on the same page is a big part to any potential success. So either Mo and JC lied to us on purpose, or they are working against each instead of with each other. I thinks its more likely the latter.

Again. They communicate to us in nothing but platitudes and double speak.

I don't know the dynamics of the team and organization. All I know is that when Carver made that statement, it raised flags because we all knew he wasn't in a position to make that kind of promise.

Did the team send him out to make that promise to placate the fans? I doubt it. I think he did it on his own, based on what who knows?

But the "promises" I am listening to (or lack of promises) are the ones that come from the people that make the decision. If Tom Anselmi had made that Carver promise at the kit party, now that would be something. But Carver making it 3 months ago when they didn't even really have a short list to begin with...what reason did I have to believe that there was a DP on the way? None in my opinion.

That is not to say I want the team to stand pat. Truth be told, I am not convinced that is the best route right now anyways. If getting a DP to placate us out here means we wind up like the Galaxy, scoring a bunch of goals but letting even more in...then management hasn't done their job.

[Roogsy]

Id rather management not continually dangle the proverbial carrot of a DP in front of the fans fans for a third year in a row.

I agree.

I think the mistake TFC has made is that they have infact dangled that carrot in front of us to begin with. They should have just shut down any talk of DP and then surprised us with it somewhere down the road. Poor PR in my opinion, to talk about the possibility of getting one, and then not giving it to the best fans in the MLS.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, they are having a hard time containing this issue. How much of a headache this is to them I don't know. Maybe they think any press is good press?

[Shaughno]

That I agree with, but at the same time.... a new franchise and what had the fans been asking for these past well, 3 years now? A DP basically. I think we engrained it in their mind that it should happen and they have been trying to fulfil that.

That's what I think anyway.

[invictusTFC]

I agree.

I think the mistake TFC has made is that they have infact dangled that carrot in front of us to begin with. They should have just shut down any talk of DP and then surprised us with it somewhere down the road. Poor PR in my opinion, to talk about the possibility of getting one, and then not giving it to the best fans in the MLS.



That settles it, they need to fire Michelle Lissel :p

[Roogsy]

LOL! I don't think she controls Mo, Paul or Tom Anselmi!

If she did...she has stones (or "minerals" for those of you from across the pond).

[Oldtimer]

I actually believe that they were trying for a DP when the DeRo opportunity came along unexpectedly.

They can't afford DeRo + raise and still cram in a DP and a CB without damaging the rest of the team. So the DP goes. That's life. DeRo will greatly improve the team.

[TFC OZZ]

I agree.

I think the mistake TFC has made is that they have infact dangled that carrot in front of us to begin with. They should have just shut down any talk of DP and then surprised us with it somewhere down the road. Poor PR in my opinion, to talk about the possibility of getting one, and then not giving it to the best fans in the MLS.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, they are having a hard time containing this issue. How much of a headache this is to them I don't know. Maybe they think any press is good press?

That's mostly what I was trying to get at with my earlier rant.

Listen, obviously getting a goal getter who doesn't need DP money would be ideal, the fact is, I just don't believe it'll happen this season. At best, I believe we'll sign another guy, with talent similar to Barrett.

The reason why I feel so gutted about the DP, is I feel like it's a showing of solidarity from MLSE to sign a guy, saying "hey look, we're willing to shell out the big bucks for a star player". The fact that they're not, to me at least, feels like they are less committed to us. I understand that that's not how many other people may feel, but I do. If they can put out a winning team without the DP, I'll be a happy man, but after two poor seasons you have to agree that the system that we're using isn't working out.

I can't wait for pre-season baby! :D

[Roogsy]

The reason why I feel so gutted about the DP, is I feel like it's a showing of solidarity from MLSE to sign a guy, saying "hey look, we're willing to shell out the big bucks for a star player". The fact that they're not, to me at least, feels like they are less committed to us.

I can certainly understand this.

MLSE will need to appreciate that the fans are not feeling the love.

[RedRum]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.

Personally I'll be pleased if we just get our CB deficiency taken care of. Coupled with a solid midfield which we appear to possess, I can live with Dichio/Barrett/Ibee up front until June, possibly even all season if it pans out.

You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.

2 months into the season and everyone will be raving about what a great job the front office has done. Mark my words.

[Shaughno]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.

Personally I'll be pleased if we just get our CB deficiency taken care of. Coupled with a solid midfield which we appear to possess, I can live with Dichio/Barrett/Ibee up front until June, possibly even all season if it pans out.

You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.

2 months into the season and everyone will be raving about what a great job the front office has done. Mark my words.


THANK FUCKING GOD someone else see's it! :D

[Frick]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but is it not possible that they have their guy lined up but are not allowed to pay the transfer fee and thus have to wait until the summer when the player's contract expires?

[Shaughno]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but is it not possible that they have their guy lined up but are not allowed to pay the transfer fee and thus have to wait until the summer when the player's contract expires?


Don't be so reasonable, it's not tolerated well 'round these parts. ;)

[Roogsy]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.

Personally I'll be pleased if we just get our CB deficiency taken care of. Coupled with a solid midfield which we appear to possess, I can live with Dichio/Barrett/Ibee up front until June, possibly even all season if it pans out.

You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.

2 months into the season and everyone will be raving about what a great job the front office has done. Mark my words.

I would agree with everything except for the least desireable city. I think there are other holes in MLS that players would rather come here than there.

[Shaughno]

I would agree with everything except for the least desireable city. I think there are other holes in MLS that players would rather come here than there.


Maybe, but we're biased. American players don't want to come here on first choice. International players want to go to well known American cities. We're far far far down the priority list of places to play in the MLS, despite what we the fans think.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I don't know the dynamics of the team and organization. All I know is that when Carver made that statement, it raised flags because we all knew he wasn't in a position to make that kind of promise.

Did the team send him out to make that promise to placate the fans? I doubt it. I think he did it on his own, based on what who knows?

But the "promises" I am listening to (or lack of promises) are the ones that come from the people that make the decision. If Tom Anselmi had made that Carver promise at the kit party, now that would be something. But Carver making it 3 months ago when they didn't even really have a short list to begin with...what reason did I have to believe that there was a DP on the way? None in my opinion.

That is not to say I want the team to stand pat. Truth be told, I am not convinced that is the best route right now anyways. If getting a DP to placate us out here means we wind up like the Galaxy, scoring a bunch of goals but letting even more in...then management hasn't done their job.

Thats not the sentiment and posts that you were really posting back then...

I mean we can all say hindsight is 20/20, but gives us a little bit of a break roogsy...

just some of your quotes back then:

I said this in the Today's news thread.
Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.


Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!


You seemed to be all for Carver's side of things back then...You bought into what he was trying to tell us just like the rest of us...

[Pigfynn]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.

Personally I'll be pleased if we just get our CB deficiency taken care of. Coupled with a solid midfield which we appear to possess, I can live with Dichio/Barrett/Ibee up front until June, possibly even all season if it pans out.

You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.

2 months into the season and everyone will be raving about what a great job the front office has done. Mark my words.


If you're going to support this team this is a good mantra for your mental health.

[Shaughno]

Thats not the sentiment and posts that you were really posting back then...

I mean we can all say hindsight is 20/20, but gives us a little bit of a break roogsy...

just some of your quotes back then:

I said this in the Today's news thread.
Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.


Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!


You seemed to be all for Carver's side of things back then...You bought into what he was trying to tell us just like the rest of us...


:rofl: I thought so, but I wasn't going to bother with digging up quotes. Good on ya. :D

[TFCREDNWHITE]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.


You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.



No its not the be all and end all...I JUST WANT IT!

There are thousands of us fans that want a DP in addition to many other things!! I don't care if its too much to ask for, I WANT IT! :cool:

[Mrs. Workie]

And I want a million dollars....


We don't always get what we want ;)

[TFCREDNWHITE]

And I want a million dollars....


We don't always get what we want ;)

Sometimes all you have to do is ask and you shall receive! :D

[Mrs. Workie]

Sometimes all you have to do is ask and you shall receive! :D


Ok then.

Could I please have a million dollars?

[tfc]

Thats not the sentiment and posts that you were really posting back then...

I mean we can all say hindsight is 20/20, but gives us a little bit of a break roogsy...

just some of your quotes back then:

I said this in the Today's news thread.
Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.


Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!


You seemed to be all for Carver's side of things back then...You bought into what he was trying to tell us just like the rest of us...

why do people get so pissed when somebody changes their mind? the circumstances have changed significantly with signing dero and the way our team is shaping up for the year. its only reasonable to assume people's opinions will change as well.

[Pigfynn]

Ok then.

Could I please have a million dollars?


You going to get us a DP with it?

:D

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Ok then.

Could I please have a million dollars?


HAHAHA i'll put the good word out... :)

[Roogsy]

Thats not the sentiment and posts that you were really posting back then...

I mean we can all say hindsight is 20/20, but gives us a little bit of a break roogsy...

just some of your quotes back then:

I said this in the Today's news thread.
Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.


Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!


You seemed to be all for Carver's side of things back then...You bought into what he was trying to tell us just like the rest of us...

:lol:

You're funny dude. Nowhere in those posts did I buy what Carver was selling.

The REASON I like Carver is that he is on our side. If you want to know what I really think of his comment back then it's this.

Carver was tired of losing. He was tired of Mo's constant fiddling with the lineup. And Carver wanted competent help up front.

So to put pressure on Mo to get something done this offseason, he made that statement, knowing full well that the media would get a hold of it and run with it during the off-season. Bringing us to this point right now.

In other words, he put himself out on a limb. For us. For the team. That's why I love him.

My position has not changed from back then and I challenge you to find anywhere in those posts where you see me buying into the whole "we are getting a DP by the start of the season" because the posts you have quoted here don't show that.

I loved Carver, I still love Carver. I have been pro-Carver on this board since I saw for myself what he brings to this team and continue to be pro-Carver. That has never been a secret and quoting my posts doesn't show any change in that. But I never believed it was Carver's hand to deal, bringing in a DP. Show me where I say otherwise.

[Mrs. Workie]

You going to get us a DP with it?

:D


For you, Yes I would :)

But only for you.

[Pigfynn]

For you, Yes I would :)

But only for you.


:blush:

[TFCREDNWHITE]

why do people get so pissed when somebody changes their mind? the circumstances have changed significantly with signing dero and the way our team is shaping up for the year. its only reasonable to assume people's opinions will change as well.

I don't care about changing your mind....

I'm just saying that with (approx) 1 million in allocation

another 2.4 million or so in salary cap, there is room for a DP in addition to DeRo and the others...

[Roogsy]

why do people get so pissed when somebody changes their mind? the circumstances have changed significantly with signing dero and the way our team is shaping up for the year. its only reasonable to assume people's opinions will change as well.


Problem is...I haven't changed my mind. I never believed it was Carver's call to make. I loved him for calling out Mo and putting pressure on him to get a DP, but that's all Carver did with this guarantee. I thought it then, and I think it now. I am not sure what the point tfcrednwhite is trying to make, but so far, I don't see any disagreement with what I wrote in October and what I am writing now. Maybe Shag-no will explain it to me? :D

[brad]

The more and more I read about a DP vs a non-DP around here, the more I'm seeing a distinction between the fans and the fanboys.

The fans priority is to see the team succeed. They know that we need to shore up the defense, and they know that we need a clinical goal scorer. Those folks would be more than happy to see someone like Kenny Cooper come in and score 15+ goals for us.

Then there are the fanboys, who don't seem to care about any of that other stuff. They ignore the facts like DP's have not been the key to success for anyone in this leauge. But their number one proirity is getting a flash name to put on their new jersey.

[flatpicker]

^ get ready for some backlash dude!

:)

[Roogsy]

Let's not go down that road. What people want from the team will always be different from person to person.

[ilikemusic]

The more and more I read about a DP vs a non-DP around here, the more I'm seeing a distinction between the fans and the fanboys.

The fans priority is to see the team succeed. They know that we need to shore up the defense, and they know that we need a clinical goal scorer. Those folks would be more than happy to see someone like Kenny Cooper come in and score 15+ goals for us.

Then there are the fanboys, who don't seem to care about any of that other stuff. They ignore the facts like DP's have not been the key to success for anyone in this leauge. But their number one proirity is getting a flash name to put on their new jersey.

Ah the inevitable 'tiering' of fans. Its internet law.

How soon until someone gets compared to Nazis? ;)

[Mrs. Workie]

The fans priority is to see the team succeed. They know that we need to shore up the defense, and they know that we need a clinical goal scorer. Those folks would be more than happy to see someone like Kenny Cooper come in and score 15+ goals for us.



Making the playoffs is a priority in my eyes. I don't care how we do it, DP or Not, just as long as we're there.

[Mrs. Workie]

^ get ready for some backlash dude!

:)


Why? He has a point.

Would a DP help our team? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how he fits in with the team dynamic.

[MG42]

The over-reaction in this thread to the article is both so predictable and sad. So many of you are delusional in thinking a DP is the be all end all for on-field success, when history shows otherwise.

Personally I'll be pleased if we just get our CB deficiency taken care of. Coupled with a solid midfield which we appear to possess, I can live with Dichio/Barrett/Ibee up front until June, possibly even all season if it pans out.

You guys are way too hard on Mo/Paul/front office. We play in probably the least desireable city in a shit league, on a shit surface. You guys are on crack if you think you can just snap your fingers and get a world class quality guy into the lineup.

2 months into the season and everyone will be raving about what a great job the front office has done. Mark my words.


Maybe carver should have realised that before he told the fans and supporters one was coming...I like Carver and want him to stay, but the reaction you are seeing is related to the "promises" we were given.

That being said I agree that DP does not equal a big return as we have seen, but it's common thinking that a DP striker will score a lot of goals.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

:lol:

You're funny dude. Nowhere in those posts did I buy what Carver was selling.

The REASON I like Carver is that he is on our side. If you want to know what I really think of his comment back then it's this.

Carver was tired of losing. He was tired of Mo's constant fiddling with the lineup. And Carver wanted competent help up front.

So to put pressure on Mo to get something done this offseason, he made that statement, knowing full well that the media would get a hold of it and run with it during the off-season. Bringing us to this point right now.

In other words, he put himself out on a limb. For us. For the team. That's why I love him.

My position has not changed from back then and I challenge you to find anywhere in those posts where you see me buying into the whole "we are getting a DP by the start of the season" because the posts you have quoted here don't show that.

I loved Carver, I still love Carver. I have been pro-Carver on this board since I saw for myself what he brings to this team and continue to be pro-Carver. That has never been a secret and quoting my posts doesn't show any change in that. But I never believed it was Carver's hand to deal, bringing in a DP. Show me where I say otherwise.



The point is that I love Carver just like you do...

MoJo has had over a full year to acquire a DP...MoJo has had ample time to plug into what Carver is requesting(and many of us want) Actually I think that MoJo is on the same page as Carver is, but the *%$heads above MoJo are sticking their FAT fingers where they don't belong.

Being lied too, or thrown some Bullshit excuse from Anselmi or Beirne is complete and utter crap...MoJo himself said he has a couple of DP targets. I actually think that MoJo is pushing hard for a couple of Targets that he and Carver wanted, but the NOBODYS upstairs are complicating things.

[ilikemusic]

Making the playoffs is a priority in my eyes. I don't care how we do it, DP or Not, just as long as we're there.

Playoffs?!

[Mrs. Workie]

Playoffs?!

What did I say a dirty word?! ;)

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Problem is...I haven't changed my mind. I never believed it was Carver's call to make. I loved him for calling out Mo and putting pressure on him to get a DP, but that's all Carver did with this guarantee. I thought it then, and I think it now. I am not sure what the point tfcrednwhite is trying to make, but so far, I don't see any disagreement with what I wrote in October and what I am writing now. Maybe Shag-no will explain it to me? :D

You don't have to define what Carver and MoJo's job description is to me...

I actually think that they are on the same page, today and back then...

The evil-doers above MoJo i think force Carver and MoJo to do things they don't necessarily want to do...

[Roogsy]

The point is that I love Carver just like you do...

MoJo has had over a full year to acquire a DP...MoJo has had ample time to plug into what Carver is requesting(and many of us want) Actually I think that MoJo is on the same page as Carver is, but the *%$heads above MoJo are sticking their FAT fingers where they don't belong.

Being lied too, or thrown some Bullshit excuse from Anselmi or Beirne is complete and utter crap...MoJo himself said he has a couple of DP targets. I actually think that MoJo is pushing hard for a couple of Targets that he and Carver wanted, but the NOBODYS upstairs are complicating things.

If that is your point...then why are you saying that I changed my opinion when I haven't? Stop obfuscating the facts.

In fact...in THIS post you acknowledge that it's Mo's call to sign the DP, not Carvers. And yet you posted Carver's statement as the promise that we were getting a DP. If you recognize that Mo is the one with the authority to sign the DP, why are you taking Carver's guarantee as the promise and not Mo's? Because Mo never made that promise and you know it and therefore your premise was incorrect from the start. You were never promised anything by anyone who has the authority to make it happen. Therefore if you feel letdown, it's because you allowed yourself to believe something that wasn't there. Accept it and move on. And don't attribute incorrect facts to someone else when you can't get your own straight.

[Beach_Red]

I actually believe that they were trying for a DP when the DeRo opportunity came along unexpectedly.

They can't afford DeRo + raise and still cram in a DP and a CB without damaging the rest of the team. So the DP goes. That's life. DeRo will greatly improve the team.

You're making waaaay too much sense.

Was it also you who pointed out a DP halfway through the season would only mean a $200k hit against the cap?

Way too much sense....

[Super]

A type like Angel would be great to sign, but Toronto is just not as great an attraction as New York. Players don't move coz of great fan support. They move for money and lifestyle.

[olegunnar]

The more and more I read about a DP vs a non-DP around here, the more I'm seeing a distinction between the fans and the fanboys.

The fans priority is to see the team succeed. They know that we need to shore up the defense, and they know that we need a clinical goal scorer. Those folks would be more than happy to see someone like Kenny Cooper come in and score 15+ goals for us.

Then there are the fanboys, who don't seem to care about any of that other stuff. They ignore the facts like DP's have not been the key to success for anyone in this leauge. But their number one proirity is getting a flash name to put on their new jersey.

What the team needs to succeed is a DP quality striker

We scored 34 goals last year...2nd worst in the league.
In the summer of 2007 we set the record for the longest scoring drought.
In the summer of 2008 when our season pissed away...we stopped scoring.

When we started scoring again (3-1 vs NYRB and 3-2 vs shitcago) it was too late.

It's not about the name. It's about avoiding the summer goaless drought.
This isn't the French league...this league (LAG aside) is about scoring...not defending.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

If that is your point...then why are you saying that I changed my opinion when I haven't? Stop obfuscating the facts.

In fact...in THIS post you acknowledge that it's Mo's call to sign the DP, not Carvers. And yet you posted Carver's statement as the promise that we were getting a DP. If you recognize that Mo is the one with the authority to sign the DP, why are you taking Carver's guarantee as the promise and not Mo's? Because Mo never made that promise and you know it and therefore your premise was incorrect from the start. You were never promised anything by anyone who has the authority to make it happen. Therefore if you feel letdown, it's because you allowed yourself to believe something that wasn't there. Accept it and move on. And don't attribute incorrect facts to someone else when you can't get your own straight.

Mine are perfectly straight...I believe that MoJo are on the same page and want the same things for the club...I think MoJo and Carver are tight friends...Carver doesn't just SHIT in MoJo's plate for fun, and vice versa..I think they are trying to accomplish something but the, peeps upstairs keep messing it all up!!

[Roogsy]

Mine are perfectly straight...I believe that MoJo are on the same page and want the same things for the club...I think MoJo and Carver are tight friends...Carver doesn't just SHIT in MoJo's plate for fun, and vice versa..I think they are trying to accomplish something but the, peeps upstairs keep messing it all up!!

So then what's the point of bring up my old posts? Where was the change? The contradiction? How is THIS "point" related to what I posted before?

You've got some serious issues with logic kid. Don't call someone out if you aren't able to follow through.

[ilikemusic]

What did I say a dirty word?! ;)

You did.

Qwq7BYOnDrM

[S_D]

What fantasyland is that? Prove me wrong.

Does Carver sign players? No. Yet he is the one you quoted as promising us a DP.

Did Mo or Paul make a promise for a DP? No. Yet they are the ones with the control of the purse-strings.

Sounds to me like you are the one in fantasyland hearing what you want to hear. When Carver made that guarantee my first thought was "Why isn't Mo saying this instead of Carver?" If you didn't ask yourself that question...then you failed to look at the big picture.


Question: Any indications on a DP....to happen well before the start of 2009 season?

MO: Absolutely. Everything is being put to the board 12th Nov. DP is in the cards. We certainly have the money for it. We have 3 mill from Edu, 500K Allocation + additional allocation....

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=118

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=127

No stand up and "we promise" but it all says we are going to get one... I guess "fantasyland" is golTV :D

[Shaughno]

What the team needs to succeed is a DP quality striker

We scored 34 goals last year...2nd worst in the league.
In the summer of 2007 we set the record for the longest scoring drought.
In the summer of 2008 when our season pissed away...we stopped scoring.

When we started scoring again (3-1 vs NYRB and 3-2 vs shitcago) it was too late.

It's not about the name. It's about avoiding the summer goaless drought.
This isn't the French league...this league (LAG aside) is about scoring...not defending.


Who says it has to be a DP player to score 15+ goals? Fuck, Edson Buddle got 15 goals and 3 assists last year FFS.

[The Kingpin]

Stop obfuscating the facts.



:eek:

[Beach_Red]

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December



It would be nice to know who it was they were going after and if they still are. If the "maybe in November-December," passed and they just got turned down or if they're still going after the same targets and just having trouble working out a deal.

This DP thing is an agent's wet dream - everybody screaming for a DP and the agent can sit back and say, "more," all day.

[The Kingpin]

Question: Any indications on a DP....to happen well before the start of 2009 season?

MO: Absolutely. Everything is being put to the board 12th Nov. DP is in the cards. We certainly have the money for it. We have 3 mill from Edu, 500K Allocation + additional allocation....

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=118

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=127

No stand up and "we promise" but it all says we are going to get one... I guess "fantasyland" is golTV :D

Wow, not being in Canada I guess I didn't catch this. This does change many of the debates in this particular thread. BTW, I find the title change a little humourous, this is an extremely unfounded statement. The quote above along with Carvers comments have some validity, the thread title change has none.

[Roogsy]

Question: Any indications on a DP....to happen well before the start of 2009 season?

MO: Absolutely. Everything is being put to the board 12th Nov. DP is in the cards. We certainly have the money for it. We have 3 mill from Edu, 500K Allocation + additional allocation....

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=118

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=127

No stand up and "we promise" but it all says we are going to get one... I guess "fantasyland" is golTV :D

I can't pull up the video at work.

I am interested in the question, and how it was asked It seems incomplete. Because as it is answered, then yes, this sounds like a promise for a DP. And THIS would be something that can make Mo accountable to fans and the media.

If his idea of a DP is DeRo...well then that is something else entirely and he will have to explain that one. I certainly hope not. DeRo is not a DP. Carver's statement in October is worthless to me in terms of a DP. That was just a frustrated manager. But Mo making this statement on television needs to be answered by somebody. If he was only talking about getting the approval from the board (which we know he now has) in that case, he needs to apologize for mispeaking or come through with a DP like his statement seems to indicate. It's just so unclear, the way Mo speaks. It's frustrating.

Nice find Soccer Dad. This changes things quite a bit. Too bad it wasn't in print because Mo's interviews are notoriously unclear.

[ilikemusic]

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=118

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=127

No stand up and "we promise" but it all says we are going to get one... I guess "fantasyland" is golTV :D

Hey, hey, hey! Hold up.

Just because Mo said it doesnt mean he meant it. Youre just a fanboy! :rolleyes:

Stop holding TFC management accountable for their words! :lol:

[TFCREDNWHITE]

So then what's the point of bring up my old posts? Where was the change? The contradiction? How is THIS "point" related to what I posted before?

You've got some serious issues with logic kid. Don't call someone out if you aren't able to follow through.

I'm Calling you out, because back then you made it seem like you were just fine with getting a DP and agreed with what Carver was saying...You went along with it back then...But now, you're acting as if you are ALL KNOWING and such a genius as if you knew it was gonna play this way all along....sorry kid i don't think so....

Look at SD's posts MoJo also wanted a DP!

In addition to SD's posts you might wanna look up MoJo's interview on TFC TV talking about how he wanted a DP and he had some Targets in mind...

at the end of the day, we're on the same side so whats the big deal:noidea:

[Marco2K]

Well if the team does not improve i am not going to columbus this year. I had fun last year but travelling to watch a shit team just does not cut it in year 3.

You will see. Road numbers will be down.

I am very mad that we are not getting a dp. Just seems freakin CHEAP!!

[olegunnar]

Who says it has to be a DP player to score 15+ goals? Fuck, Edson Buddle got 15 goals and 3 assists last year FFS.

The thing is who are you going to add that's not a DP that will be the guy?

It won't be a guy currently in the league because the team won't want to get rid of them (Cooper, Emilio, Ching etc.), look at how often Cunny gets recycled. There's slim pickings.

It won't be a $300-350K kind of guy from overseas because who can you get at that price? We offered more than that to Milosevic and were turned down.

So it's DP or hang all our hopes on Chad Barrett, some 18 yr old kid that's scored 2 goals in his career and the legend who's probably good for 20 minutes max at this point in his career.

So that's my argument that the striker has to be a DP.

What's yours that it doesn't have to be? Who that will make less that $400K can we sign that will score guarenteed 10-15 goals next year?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Question: Any indications on a DP....to happen well before the start of 2009 season?

MO: Absolutely. Everything is being put to the board 12th Nov. DP is in the cards. We certainly have the money for it. We have 3 mill from Edu, 500K Allocation + additional allocation....

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=118

We know who we are going after...we will make that known maybe in November/December

Gol TV...Mojo unplugged
http://www.goltv.ca/video/?video=127

No stand up and "we promise" but it all says we are going to get one... I guess "fantasyland" is golTV :D


Thank you. +1

[Roogsy]

I'm Calling you out, because back then you made it seem like you were just fine with getting a DP and agreed with what Carver was saying...You went along with it back then...But now, you're acting as if you are ALL KNOWING and such a genius as if you knew it was gonna play this way all along....sorry kid i don't think so....

Agreed with what he was saying? Where? Comprehension seems to be an issue as well here. I praised Carver for what he did, I still do. But nowhere do you see me say "Carver is getting us a DP" like I have asked you to find. Yeah...I agree with what he did. Mo needed a kick in the pants. I still agree. Nothing changed. Unlike how you presented it. That somehow I backpedalled. Where?

All knowing? Never said that. I don't claim to have known that we weren't getting a player. For all I know, Mo is still working on one as we speak. I don't know. What I did know back then...and it isn't some grand insight that nobody had, ANYONE who knows anything about this team should have and probably does know this, and that is that Carver never had the authority to sign anyone and so how was HE going to make that promise? Only Mo (or higher) could make that promise. It's the same now as it was in October.

Now...it appears MO may have indeed promised a DP later on...I don't know. I never saw that interview so I am going to pull it up when I get home. But it doesn't change the fact that at no point was Carver ever going to be able to bring us a DP, that had to come from Mo so when you pulled up that thread, you didn't actually prove anything at all. So please, next time you quote me and claim I changed my position, please make an effort to understand the issue first and not make me have to point out the fallacy of your claim.

[Shaughno]

The thing is who are you going to add that's not a DP that will be the guy?

It won't be a guy currently in the league because the team won't want to get rid of them (Cooper, Emilio, Ching etc.), look at how often Cunny gets recycled. There's slim pickings.

It won't be a $300-350K kind of guy from overseas because who can you get at that price? We offered more than that to Milosevic and were turned down.

So it's DP or hang all our hopes on Chad Barrett, some 18 yr old kid that's scored 2 goals in his career and the legend who's probably good for 20 minutes max at this point in his career.

So that's my argument that the striker has to be a DP.

What's yours that it doesn't have to be? Who that will make less that $400K can we sign that will score guarenteed 10-15 goals next year?


There are players in the league that CAN do it. I think in a year or two (if we're lucky this year) Barrett may be at that stage. Twellman can do it if he's healthy. Casey could probably do it with good service.

In fact, with out midfield power it should potentially take some heat off our strikers with added goals as well. I do think we need a solid goal scoring striker, but I'm more worried about our backline to be honest.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Agreed with what he was saying? Where? Comprehension seems to be an issue as well here. I praised Carver for what he did, I still do. But nowhere do you see me say "Carver is getting us a DP" like I have asked you to find. Yeah...I agree with what he did. Mo needed a kick in the pants. I still agree. Nothing changed. Unlike how you presented it. That somehow I backpedalled. Where?

All knowing? Never said that. I don't claim to have known that we weren't getting a player. For all I know, Mo is still working on one as we speak. I don't know. What I did know back then...and it isn't some grand insight that nobody had, ANYONE who knows anything about this team should have and probably does know this, and that is that Carver never had the authority to sign anyone and so how was HE going to make that promise? Only Mo (or higher) could make that promise. It's the same now as it was in October.

Now...it appears MO may have indeed promised a DP later on...I don't know. I never saw that interview so I am going to pull it up when I get home. But it doesn't change the fact that at no point was Carver ever going to be able to bring us a DP, that had to come from Mo so when you pulled up that thread, you didn't actually prove anything at all. So please, next time you quote me and claim I changed my position, please make an effort to understand the issue first and not make me have to point out the fallacy of your claim.


Have i said that i love you!! because i do. :p

I would give you a big hug right now if i could.:o

[Roogsy]

Have i said that i love you!! because i do. :p

I would give you a big hug right now if i could.:o

If you were old enough I'd buy you a beer you fucking shit disturber! :D

[TFCREDNWHITE]

If you were old enough I'd buy you a beer you fucking shit disturber! :D

oooohhhh i'm not so sure about that...I'm 31....ouch, i know it hurts.:(

[Roogsy]

SNAP! :eek:

My bad...

[Yohan]

It's like this.

Do you want a goal scoring team with a weak backline (ie LAG) or do you want a team with solid defence but with decent offence?

And no, I don't think you can have both, not with the salary cap. I think there is enough room for only one area of improvement. Either offence or defence.

With DeRo, we have Guevara/DeRo/Barrett combo that should be pretty darn good, with Danny D and Ibby also chipping in a few.

No question that we need a commanding CB. I'd rather see a tight defence at the back rather than putting all our eggs in one basket with a DP striker who might go down injured for months and we'd be in a world of hurt

[TFC OZZ]

Dallas, can we haz Kenny Cooper plz? kthxs bai

[JonO]

There are players in the league that CAN do it. I think in a year or two (if we're lucky this year) Barrett may be at that stage. Twellman can do it if he's healthy. Casey could probably do it with good service.

In fact, with out midfield power it should potentially take some heat off our strikers with added goals as well. I do think we need a solid goal scoring striker, but I'm more worried about our backline to be honest.
Aww man - I'm agreeing with Shaughno again... there goes my new year's resolution....

[loconet]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A DP will help but it will not help as much as getting our back-line fixed and getting a DP CB is very unlikely. Having said that, it sucks there is no DP but whatever, specially with Dero on board, I much prefer to have a happy locker-room and other issues addressed first (ie. new CBs).

It's not the end of the world yet.

[Yohan]

Seriously. finding a Jimmy Conrad or Chad Marshall caliber CB in this shit league is worth helluva lot more than a 15goal DP striker

I'd rather have Mo spend whatever cap and allocation money we got left on some solid defender.
Then wait until new collective bargaining and see how much more cap space there are, plus whether DP rules change, again.

Of course, if we had Tebily right now, we should be going after DP striker right away

[Roogsy]

Seriously. finding a Jimmy Conrad or Chad Marshall caliber CB in this shit league is worth helluva lot more than a 15goal DP striker

I'd rather have Mo spend whatever cap and allocation money we got left on some solid defender.
Then wait until new collective bargaining and see how much more cap space there are, plus whether DP rules change, again.

Of course, if we had Tebily right now, we should be going after DP striker right away

Seriously...quality players like Conrad or Marshall would be a dream. Solid CBs that also put one or two in for you througout the season. But more than anything, they don't cost millions and they do a great job on the backline.

[Derko]

Seriously. finding a Jimmy Conrad or Chad Marshall caliber CB in this shit league is worth helluva lot more than a 15goal DP striker

I'd rather have Mo spend whatever cap and allocation money we got left on some solid defender.
Then wait until new collective bargaining and see how much more cap space there are, plus whether DP rules change, again.

Of course, if we had Tebily right now, we should be going after DP striker right away

I must agree with Yohan, the key to any successful team is a strong defence and midfield, it's no good losing 5-4 most matches, but winning most matches 1 or 2 nil is better and proven to be successful.
Yes a DP striker would be nice, but TFC have to improve defensively, I ask how many games became losses or draws because of blunders in the backline, had those games been wins, TFC and us (The Supporters) would have enjoyed a few post season games.

This thread sounds like alot of '...Mo said this and Carver said that...' now I'm going to take my ball and not play anymore, complaining.

C'mon guys we are supposed to be the most educated and well informed supporters in the MLS!!
:drinking:

[flatpicker]

6 pages!!!

You folks either need to go watch some tv, go for a walk, or find a place where you can all get together and discuss this over a beer!

[Yohan]

honestly. if i thought columbus shitheads will take it, I'd offer something like tyrone marshall, first round or two plus whatever allocation we got left after satisfying dero's contract for chad marshall

[Moe911]

DP or Bust

[Yohan]

DP or Bust
ok. we'll get DP CB:D

[Kooper]

aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!

i Just Want To Scream Bloody Murder!!!!!!!!

THIS SUCKS.:hulk::sheep::puke::dupe::violin:

Based on your comment in the previous thread "January 5th", you have promised to riot in the streets, and Canadian Blue has first dibs on your tickets.

[Kooper]

In Oct-Dec it was guarenteed we'd have a DP for the start of the season.
Recently we found out the first week of January was going to be the unveiling. Dobson, Knight, all sorts of people reported that.

I wasn't aware that Dobson, Knight and "all sorts of people" work for TFC. They are all journalists, I am a fan of their work, but we need to remember, they are all working for themselves and their station. What they are reporting is gossip and speculation until Mo and Carver put a red jersey on the Mystery DP player at a press conference.

Don't be upset with the team because they didn't do what others promised they would do. We still have months to go before the season starts and until the European leagues let out and the players are released there is a chance that we won't get anyone.

Calm down.

[rocker]

bring me wins..
if that's done by adding a DP or instead doing other things, I don't give a shit. wins are all that matters.
you don't need a DP to be successful in this league. the fact that TFC is looking carefully for the right guy is a good thing.
if they can maybe bring a DP in and reduce the cap impact by using allocation on DeRo/Robbo/Dichio, so be it. But I think some people get too caught up in the "prize" without thinking about the consequences.

p.s., I don't remember a guarantee comment about a DP. I remember, from the very beginning and through to Anselmi's comments at the jersey unveiling, that a DP would be carefully considered.. no guarantee.

[James17930]

We have a star player (i.e. DP player). His name is Dwayne De Rosario.

'Nuff said.

Quite fucking bitching about everything.

Jesus.

[Detroit_TFC]

It's like this.

Do you want a goal scoring team with a weak backline (ie LAG) or do you want a team with solid defence but with decent offence?

And no, I don't think you can have both, not with the salary cap. I think there is enough room for only one area of improvement. Either offence or defence.

With DeRo, we have Guevara/DeRo/Barrett combo that should be pretty darn good, with Danny D and Ibby also chipping in a few.

No question that we need a commanding CB. I'd rather see a tight defence at the back rather than putting all our eggs in one basket with a DP striker who might go down injured for months and we'd be in a world of hurt

This sums up what I was thinking. I'm not convinced that a DP lifts the team as a whole. Chicago may be the exception but that just shows how weak the other DPs have been in achieving the desired impact they were brought in to do.

Anyway, my theory is that Mo can't find a DP-quality player that is willing to come to Toronto. No matter. IMHO a new training facility with natural grass would get us way more goals (by improving our overall play) than any DP that would be willing to sign for TFC currently.

[egoodwin]

I'm not worried.

I am willing to accept DeRo as a DP, I would have a few months ago, I still do now.

Also, I have faith in our strikers, with a full season of Barrett and seeing more of Ibby and hopefully a healthy Dichio, combined with DeRo, and Guevara, I don't think we'll see the same scoring problems as the last two years...

Sure I am disappointed on how the DeRo acquisition was originally portrayed as an addition to a DP move, but it's not the end of the world.

Afterall DeRo does bring media attention to the team, he is someone who can get merchandise sold, he will improve the team greatly, he basically does the job of a normal DP..

Plus I'd rather have DeRo as a DP than some 35+ year old player who's prime has long past

[ilikemusic]

The impression im getting from alot of the 'calm down, we need to build our team right and a DP doesnt guarantee that' is that they are creating a false dichotomy and making their point based on that.

It isnt either we get a DP or we shore up the backline.

We didnt spend money on a DP for the last two seasons but that didnt ensure that we had a solid backline, a well balanced attack, and an economically sound payroll. So why would this season by any different?

All of the people upset about this apparent about-face by the FO arent stupid. They would obviously take a well balance winner sans the DP over a high scoring, LA Galaxian roster.

But what are fans supposed to think when our coach tells us that he needs a DP? That he needs a DP so much so that he will walk should he not get it? This is an opinion that Carver has expressed rather vehemently; That this team needs scoring, and that he thinks that will come from a DP.

To say the people upset about this are simply irrational folks who dont understand the game and are just looking to fly off the handle is absolving Carver, Mo, and everyone else making decisions for this team of any responsibility for the current condition of the club.

Nobody is saying '**** the rest of the squad, I just want Totti up front, I dont care if youre dressing garbage men on the backline'. People are simply upset (and justifiably so in my view) that they have yet again been sold a false set of goods.

Its awful convenient that at the end of the season, when tempers are running high and ticket renewals are mulling around in people's minds that Mo goes on TV and all but assures the fans that a DP is coming.

What I (and every other fan) wants is for the squad to be built right, DP or no DP, I could not care less.

What I dont want is to be fed a constant stream of BS and mixed messages from the organization.

And raising ticket prices every off season with no return in 'on the pitch investment' doesnt help either.

[Technorgasm]

PAUL?

Input?

[MG42]

The impression im getting from alot of the 'calm down, we need to build our team right and a DP doesnt guarantee that' is that they are creating a false dichotomy and making their point based on that.

It isnt either we get a DP or we shore up the backline.

We didnt spend money on a DP for the last two seasons but that didnt ensure that we had a solid backline, a well balanced attack, and an economically sound payroll. So why would this season by any different?

All of the people upset about this apparent about-face by the FO arent stupid. They would obviously take a well balance winner sans the DP over a high scoring, LA Galaxian roster.

But what are fans supposed to think when our coach tells us that he needs a DP? That he needs a DP so much so that he will walk should he not get it? This is an opinion that Carver has expressed rather vehemently; That this team needs scoring, and that he thinks that will come from a DP.

To say the people upset about this are simply irrational folks who dont understand the game and are just looking to fly off the handle is absolving Carver, Mo, and everyone else making decisions for this team of any responsibility for the current condition of the club.

Nobody is saying '**** the rest of the squad, I just want Totti up front, I dont care if youre dressing garbage men on the backline'. People are simply upset (and justifiably so in my view) that they have yet again been sold a false set of goods.

Its awful convenient that at the end of the season, when tempers are running high and ticket renewals are mulling around in people's minds that Mo goes on TV and all but assures the fans that a DP is coming.

What I (and every other fan) wants is for the squad to be built right, DP or no DP, I could not care less.

What I dont want is to be fed a constant stream of BS and mixed messages from the organization.

And raising ticket prices every off season with no return in 'on the pitch investment' doesnt help either.

well said.

[TFC07]

The impression im getting from alot of the 'calm down, we need to build our team right and a DP doesnt guarantee that' is that they are creating a false dichotomy and making their point based on that.

It isnt either we get a DP or we shore up the backline.

We didnt spend money on a DP for the last two seasons but that didnt ensure that we had a solid backline, a well balanced attack, and an economically sound payroll. So why would this season by any different?

All of the people upset about this apparent about-face by the FO arent stupid. They would obviously take a well balance winner sans the DP over a high scoring, LA Galaxian roster.

But what are fans supposed to think when our coach tells us that he needs a DP? That he needs a DP so much so that he will walk should he not get it? This is an opinion that Carver has expressed rather vehemently; That this team needs scoring, and that he thinks that will come from a DP.

To say the people upset about this are simply irrational folks who dont understand the game and are just looking to fly off the handle is absolving Carver, Mo, and everyone else making decisions for this team of any responsibility for the current condition of the club.

Nobody is saying '**** the rest of the squad, I just want Totti up front, I dont care if youre dressing garbage men on the backline'. People are simply upset (and justifiably so in my view) that they have yet again been sold a false set of goods.

Its awful convenient that at the end of the season, when tempers are running high and ticket renewals are mulling around in people's minds that Mo goes on TV and all but assures the fans that a DP is coming.

What I (and every other fan) wants is for the squad to be built right, DP or no DP, I could not care less.

What I dont want is to be fed a constant stream of BS and mixed messages from the organization.

And raising ticket prices every off season with no return in 'on the pitch investment' doesnt help either.

Well said.

You should have increased font size of that sentence instead of doing opposite.

Btw, this going to Mo's last year unless this team makes it to the playoffs.

[Pachuco]

I'm one of those that thinks we don't necessarily need a DP at this moment. BUT - What I'm sick and tired of is Mo making promises and not delivering. He promised a DP and now MLSE is back peddaling AGAIN. I'm tired of these off seasons full of promises. I actually see it for what it is now, everyone has renewed their season tickets so it's time to let everyone know that the promises Mo made in November, December worked in getting everyone to renew. It seems very calculated if you ask me.

[Pachuco]

The impression im getting from alot of the 'calm down, we need to build our team right and a DP doesnt guarantee that' is that they are creating a false dichotomy and making their point based on that.

It isnt either we get a DP or we shore up the backline.

We didnt spend money on a DP for the last two seasons but that didnt ensure that we had a solid backline, a well balanced attack, and an economically sound payroll. So why would this season by any different?

All of the people upset about this apparent about-face by the FO arent stupid. They would obviously take a well balance winner sans the DP over a high scoring, LA Galaxian roster.

But what are fans supposed to think when our coach tells us that he needs a DP? That he needs a DP so much so that he will walk should he not get it? This is an opinion that Carver has expressed rather vehemently; That this team needs scoring, and that he thinks that will come from a DP.

To say the people upset about this are simply irrational folks who dont understand the game and are just looking to fly off the handle is absolving Carver, Mo, and everyone else making decisions for this team of any responsibility for the current condition of the club.

Nobody is saying '**** the rest of the squad, I just want Totti up front, I dont care if youre dressing garbage men on the backline'. People are simply upset (and justifiably so in my view) that they have yet again been sold a false set of goods.

Its awful convenient that at the end of the season, when tempers are running high and ticket renewals are mulling around in people's minds that Mo goes on TV and all but assures the fans that a DP is coming.

What I (and every other fan) wants is for the squad to be built right, DP or no DP, I could not care less.

What I dont want is to be fed a constant stream of BS and mixed messages from the organization.

And raising ticket prices every off season with no return in 'on the pitch investment' doesnt help either.

That's one heck of a post.

[egoodwin]

I'm one of those that thinks we don't necessarily need a DP at this moment. BUT - What I'm sick and tired of is Mo making promises and not delivering. He promised a DP and now MLSE is back peddaling AGAIN. I'm tired of these off seasons full of promises. I actually see it for what it is now, everyone has renewed their season tickets so it's time to let everyone know that the promises Mo made in November, December worked in getting everyone to renew. It seems very calculated if you ask me.
Technically Mo didn't lie though, he promised a DP, and he brought in DeRo... who is a defacto DP...and probably will be a DP when the contract tinkering is finished

sure he's not a washed up has been DP from Europe, but he's good enough

[Pachuco]

Technically Mo didn't lie though, he promised a DP, and he brought in DeRo... who is a defacto DP...and probably will be a DP when the contract tinkering is finished

sure he's not a washed up has been DP from Europe, but he's good enough

IF Dero becomes our DP, then that's a whole different conversation. For now, we have no DP and speculation has it now that no DP is coming before the season starts.

[boban]

guys, we shouldn't be blaming dero, we should blame the stupid mls cap. Mo is trying to build a strong team, where every player has an important role in our success, not just two or three outstanding players with a bunch of duds. its hard to do that when the cap is 2.3mm bucks or whatever. we should also be happy that guys are taking paycuts, or being flexible in their salaries so we can achieve this success. if we can pull in a solid veteran defender or two, i have a feeling we will make the playoffs this year, especially if we see some standout performances in wynne and barrett, both of whom i think will have great seasons
lotsof 'ifs' in that.
Fact is Dero is to blame a bit. He knows the cap and he has a contract that pays he close to it that he recently signed. Thats one massive increase he is asking for.

[Keyman]

People are angry because DeRo is the cheap route out. Although Dwayne is a talented player, it is impossible to deny the fact that more talented players are indeed available on the open market. Why bring in a player who commands the same salary under the cap as a DP, when you could utilize a rule that brings in a player who is more talented and go over the maximum salary?

[Beach_Red]

But what are fans supposed to think when our coach tells us that he needs a DP? That he needs a DP so much so that he will walk should he not get it? This is an opinion that Carver has expressed rather vehemently; That this team needs scoring, and that he thinks that will come from a DP.


They could think that their coach is an emotional guy - he also theatened to quit over the officiating didn't he? - and that he's never coached in a salary cap-playoff league with something as dumb as the "DP rule," so it might take him a whole season to learn all the weird ins and outs of it.

Might as well get used to the idea that this is a coach who will fly off the handle and say all sorts of things - I can live with that.

[THA BUTCHA]

Remember guys we have 800,000 to a million in saved allocations.
There is no reason why we can't have DERO and a DP.

DERO only wants an additional 200,000...


pull out your calculator and do the MATH

[Beach_Red]

People are angry because DeRo is the cheap route out. Although Dwayne is a talented player, it is impossible to deny the fact that more talented players are indeed available on the open market. Why bring in a player who commands the same salary under the cap as a DP, when you could utilize a rule that brings in a player who is more talented and go over the maximum salary?

So, should Mo have turned down the trade with Houston?

[Thrillos]

I didn't want to read the 7 pages that accumulated in an incredible short amount of time so i don't know if this has been mentioned or not but... since they were saying we would have a dp around this time and now they are saying it most likely won't happen till the summer window... does any one remember about a month ago the rumors were that owen was gonna leave newcastle because he didn't want a paycut....

and then about a week ago he said that he is most likely leaving but wants to finish his contract and play until the end of season... effectivly making him a free agent this summer. Also lets not forget how everyone is all over Carver and his Newcastle connections on this board. And yes i know rumors are that Real Madrid and Chelsea and Man City were going after him but right now all those big name clubs are most likely making no new signings in the near future because they are hurting big time from the crunch.

His salary is a little higher than what we reportly offered nuno gomes a little ways back.... anyway thats my thoughts

[Keyman]

So, should Mo have turned down the trade with Houston?
If we are in a situation, due to cap restrictions, where we have to pick between one or the other, then yes. Because of the ridiculous cap restrictions that are placed on teams, you have to spend 400k very, very carefully.

[Beach_Red]

If we are in a situation, due to cap restrictions, where we have to pick between one or the other, then yes. Because of the ridiculous cap restrictions that are placed on teams, you have to spend 400k very, very carefully.

A bird in the hand...you never get both options at the same time with plenty of time to think about it. You have to take the first one that comes along and work it out later.

[tfc]

Remember guys we have 800,000 to a million in saved allocations.
There is no reason why we can't have DERO and a DP.

DERO only wants an additional 200,000...


pull out your calculator and do the MATH

So we pay dero his salary in allocation, which lasts only one year, and then drop him because we can't cover his salary next year?

how about you use COMMON SENSE :D:rolleyes:

[Keyman]

A bird in the hand...you never get both options at the same time with plenty of time to think about it. You have to take the first one that comes along and work it out later.

Well I'm assuming the club had done a significant amount of research into various players, and probably had a shortlist of potential DPs. Obviously, finalizing a deal with a DP is an excruciating process, however, simply signing DeRo because it came along first is ridiculous. I would clasify it as a knee-jerk decision, which lacked any sort of thought.

This is all, of course, if DeRo is Toronto's FC's version of a designated player.

[brad]

Well I'm assuming the club had done a significant amount of research into various players, and probably had a shortlist of potential DPs. Obviously, finalizing a deal with a DP is an excruciating process, however, simply signing DeRo because it came along first is ridiculous. I would clasify it as a knee-jerk decision, which lacked any sort of thought.

DeRo was on the list of player Mo wanted from day one. That move was not knee jerk.

If DeRo was intended as the DP, and we got him without use the slot, I'd say good on Mo. Sounds kind of familar doesn't it? I wonder if the Crew fans were disappointed about the fact that Schelotto wasn't a DP last year?

[Keyman]

What I said was if it was a choice between one or the other, then it's a very unintelligent transaction. You clearly don't understand what I'm saying. If we were to bring in De Rosario and a designated player, then I would be ecstatic. However, if we chose De Rosario over a DP, then it's a pointless move that screams thrifty. The only justification I can see is that he was the most talented player available, which I find very tough to believe.

[wzhxvy]

I am so fing pissed about the lies and then the fing talking heads give us BS and expect us to buy it. Oh we are waiting for the right guy ? Thanks for the education boys, we didnt know...its about GETTING the right guy, we all know they have to be the right guys. And if any of you think that anything other than Dero fell into Mo's lap you are dreaming...he deserves no fing credit...its not like he went and got him...So another sign of lack of execution, unable to execute and big mouths with no results. Then idiots think they can fool us. And where the F is Mo ? Why didnt he speak ? Since when is Paul speaking about player movement....are you kidding me ?

[Yohan]

People are angry because DeRo is the cheap route out. Although Dwayne is a talented player, it is impossible to deny the fact that more talented players are indeed available on the open market. Why bring in a player who commands the same salary under the cap as a DP, when you could utilize a rule that brings in a player who is more talented and go over the maximum salary?
Because we dont know who's available right now, or in the near future.

Finding the right player WHO WILL PLAY FOR YOUR CLUB is always going to be difficult, esp when you're a small team (fame wise) in a rather shitty league

So many people think there are shitloads of talented players out there who are dying to play for TFC if the money is right but this is not the case


Remember guys we have 800,000 to a million in saved allocations.
There is no reason why we can't have DERO and a DP.

DERO only wants an additional 200,000...


pull out your calculator and do the MATH
Isn't there some fucked up rule that says allocation can be only spent in certain ways?

Either way, like someone else mentioned, spending over the cap and use allocation money and have not enough cap left to pay for next year a bit shortsided thinking.

Not to mention we do want a little bit of cap room and allocation left in case there may be some player out there that might add a lot to our squad.


Well I'm assuming the club had done a significant amount of research into various players, and probably had a shortlist of potential DPs. Obviously, finalizing a deal with a DP is an excruciating process, however, simply signing DeRo because it came along first is ridiculous. I would clasify it as a knee-jerk decision, which lacked any sort of thought.

This is all, of course, if DeRo is Toronto's FC's version of a designated player.
I dont see how Mo could turn this deal down, even by MLS standards. TFC gave up so little to get quality back in return.

Now we dont know who's available right now and what sort of talks going on between players and Mo. I'd be a bit peeved too if it turns out there is a DP worthy player out there willing to play for TFC, but Mo spent all the money so we can't sign him.

But, lacking such information, based upon what we know, I fail to see how trading for DeRo is bad move when the alternative is some DP that we have no clue whether he exists or not

[S_D]

Isn't there some fucked up rule that says allocation can be only spent in certain ways?


Allocation money does not count against a team's salary budget and can be used:

• To sign players new to MLS (that is, a player that did not play in MLS during the previous season).
• To re-sign an existing MLS player, with League approval.
• In connection with the exercise of an option to purchase a player's rights or the extension of a player's contact for the second year provided the player was new to MLS in the immediately prior year.
Allocation money cannot otherwise be used to buy down the salary budget number of players already under contract to the League, nor can allocation money be used to buy down the budget number of a Designated Player.

http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

[Yohan]

dear MLS

stop it with the stupid rules that you need a team of lawyers just to figure out

no love,
-yohan

[Keyman]

Yes, it is impossible to know whether or not there were better players available for us to acquire. However, personally I think it is a valid assumption that yes, there were indeed options available that had significant amounts of talent. Simply fostering the idea that we don't need a designated player because we have De Rosario is an opinion that some people seem to share, and I guess these people simply have lower expectations than me. I feel that through signing De Rosario, and not signing a DP, Mo Johnston would not be using the 400k taken up be DeRo's contract in the most efficient way.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Id still love to see a DP (especially as a striker or CB) but i dont think its necessary for our club to succeed with one. I was expecting one and am a bit disheartened but once again i know that its not necessary and sometimes feel that people simply want the DP for the star power and bragging rights. Id rather win.

[Cashcleaner]

I think some of you are getting carried away with the negative comments here.
If we didn't have DeRo then yes, I would be upset at not getting a DP.
But we have made a solid acquisition and he is the one we should add the supportive pieces around.
To me, DeRo is a worthy substitute for a DP.That's the problem. Getting DeRo is great news, but just because you can make one good acquisition, that doesn't mean you should just stop there and rest on your laurels.

We are becoming the Maple Leafs for soccer. That's saying something and I haven't made such a remark before, but its becoming the reality we now face. Believe me, I hate even thinking about it.

Just how interested in winning is our club's ownership when they continue to drag their feet on so many issues. We get the press releases and the interviews making promise after promise, but look at us now. We've got our head coach threatening to pack up and move back to England; not because they're not paying him enough and not because he's not getting a contract he wants, but rather because the club isn't giving him the tools he wants/needs to put together a competitive roster. And somehow, some still believe Carver is the bad guy here. :rolleyes:

[Yohan]

That's the problem. Getting DeRo is great news, but just because you can make one good acquisition, that doesn't mean you should just stop there and rest on your laurels.

We are becoming the Maple Leafs for soccer. That's saying something and I haven't made such a remark before, but its becoming the reality we now face. Believe me, I hate even thinking about it.

Just how interested in winning is our club's ownership when they continue to drag their feet on so many issues. We get the press releases and the interviews making promise after promise, but look at us now. We've got our head coach threatening to pack up and move back to England; not because they're not paying him enough and not because he's not getting a contract he wants, but rather because the club isn't giving him the tools he wants/needs to put together a competitive roster. And somehow, some still believe Carver is the bad guy here. :rolleyes:
your comment would only make sense if there is no bloody cap

[Cashcleaner]

The cap isn't as restrictive as you probably think. Its something we have to take into account, obviously, but we can do it with the right maneuvering. Signing one player as DP and squeezing as much into the roster with the remaining cash works for us, especially when you consider the metric ass-load of allocation money we've built up.

Blaming the cap instead of the people making the desicions around it doesn't make sense.

[CretanBull]

Never in the history of sports have the fans of a club questioned ownership's willingness to win after having only played two seasons.

A FAR bigger mistake than not signing a DP is signing the wrong DP. Signing someone - anyone - for the sake of appeasement or fullfilling a promise would be one of the worst moves that could ever be made. MLSE gave TFC the go ahead as far as signing a DP. The fact that we have the money to pay for one, doesn't mean the right one is available. For anyone who's criticizing Mo or the front office, name a player who's available, who's willing to come to Toronto, who's willing to play on turf who fits our needs. If that player is out there and Mo is sitting on his hands then fire away with the criticisms. If you're mad that that player isn't out there right now and Mo refuses to sign someone who doesn't fit the above criteria then give your head a shake - he's doing the right thing.

[Cashcleaner]

^ I don't think anyone would argue that signing a DP simply for its own sake would be in the club's best interest. The issue I have is the fact that getting the right sort of player here doesn't have to be nearly as complicated as its being made out to be. If we were really suffering from some sort of stigma that is preventing players from signing a contract, why would Carver be suggesting otherwise? Read the latest remarks from Carver. He certainly seems to feel that we need a DP and I don't know about you guys, but I give the benefit of the doubt to the Head Coach.

Let's be honest, don't you think we should be paying attention to him when he makes such comments? I wouldn't be so adamant about this topic if it wasn't for the fact that our freakin' Head Coach is raising the issue.

[CretanBull]

I wouldn't go so far to suggest that there's a 'stigma' about playing in Toronto, clearly there are some issues surrounding our club. It shouldn't come as any surprise why a head coach would put on a strong public face and deny any such issues. We know Toronto is a great place to live and by all accounts TFC is a 1st class organization, great fan base etc. At the same time, Toronto is not America and for some Europeans/South Americans/Africans the appeal of the MLS is playing in America. Factor in taxation issues which means an increase of as much as 25% over taxation in America. Also consider the field turf, which may not bother a particular player but he'll know its an issue that will stop other players from joining the team thus limiting TFCs ability to improve more easily etc. None of these things are the end of the world, but we shouldn't be in denial that they are issues.

Again, I don't think that anyone is questioning whether or not we need a DP - its more of a matter of fidning out if the is right player out there for us right now. If he's not, it would be a mistake to sign someone who's less than perfect for the sake of appeasement.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about Toronto in the eyes of global sports personalities. I think its no surprise that if given a choice, most players would prefer a club somewhere such as New York, Chicago, Miami, or LA. Its unfortunate, but not much we can do about it. :(

[sidvan]

A question to the wise, are the players paid by the MLS, a U.S. company with a local branch office in Toronto, in U.S. $? Do they no in fact "work" for the U.S. company and are just on an extended "service" call to Canada, therefore not subject to local tax issues?

Tax guys, help me out here.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Finding a player to play here (MLS, then Toronto) is a challenge we've discussed many a time. KJ has a point but the counterpoint is what I'd like to bring up. Those "failures" as DP's- Have they killed those clubs involved? I think Cretan's on the right track that getting the right man is more important than if we put a DP beside his name.

As long as we get some talent in that is a level up from the strikers we have now we'll compete next year.

DP is just something quick to point to and say our ownership thinks the best of us as supporters but we should know the difference between a Beckham and a Blanco.

[Chewy Unikronik]

Why is it so difficult to understand?

We neeed/want an attacker and 2 defenders.

We get DeRo, but still would like the 3 above mentioned players.

DeRo asks for more money, thus eating into our allocation monies.

Now there's less to go around for the 3 players, so clearly you'd have to eliminate the most expensive option, first.

They never said never, but it also isn't their biggest priority right now. Give me 3 decent players over El SuperEstrella anyday.

Hmmmmm...

[CretanBull]

A question to the wise, are the players paid by the MLS, a U.S. company with a local branch office in Toronto, in U.S. $? Do they no in fact "work" for the U.S. company and are just on an extended "service" call to Canada, therefore not subject to local tax issues?

Tax guys, help me out here.

The players are signed to contracts by the MLS parent company, but the players still pay taxes where they earn their money and are therefor subject to municipal /provincial or state/ and federal taxes based on where they play. Their salaries, regardless of where they play, are paid in US dollars.

The way it works out is that a player playing in Canada gains about 20% from the exchange rate, but also ends up paying about 30% more in taxes. There's (roughly) a 10% net loss in coming to Canada, but that's subject to the fluctuation in the exchange rate.

Another factor (especially for those on the lower end of the wage scale) is that Toronto is a relatively expensive city to live in. Probably around the same as Chicago/Dallas/Houston, cheaper than LA or NYC...but far more expensive than KC, Columbus, Salt Lake City etc.

[Jack]

CretanBull is right.

A DP just for the sake of spending the money "because we have it" is just about the dumbest thing we could do.

It's not called "cheap", it's called smart. Just because you have the money, you should automatically spend it? And get the right person? Who's motivated and will help the team become a winner? And wants to live in Toronto? And who wants to play on turf? And who is available?

There are a lot of factors. I want to see a DP at some point. But I want to see the RIGHT DP for our club. No just "a DP". The DP.

[Yohan]

^ I don't think anyone would argue that signing a DP simply for its own sake would be in the club's best interest. The issue I have is the fact that getting the right sort of player here doesn't have to be nearly as complicated as its being made out to be. If we were really suffering from some sort of stigma that is preventing players from signing a contract, why would Carver be suggesting otherwise? Read the latest remarks from Carver. He certainly seems to feel that we need a DP and I don't know about you guys, but I give the benefit of the doubt to the Head Coach.

Let's be honest, don't you think we should be paying attention to him when he makes such comments? I wouldn't be so adamant about this topic if it wasn't for the fact that our freakin' Head Coach is raising the issue.
To be honest, Carver's rants were before DeRo got signed.
With DeRo, a proven MLS player, the whole equation changed


I wouldn't go so far to suggest that there's a 'stigma' about playing in Toronto, clearly there are some issues surrounding our club. It shouldn't come as any surprise why a head coach would put on a strong public face and deny any such issues. We know Toronto is a great place to live and by all accounts TFC is a 1st class organization, great fan base etc. At the same time, Toronto is not America and for some Europeans/South Americans/Africans the appeal of the MLS is playing in America.

It really doesnt matter if we know Toronto is a good city to live in, if the players out there dont, eh?

Kinda like have a restaurant with awesome food and service, but no one knows about it, or willing to try it

[CanuckPete]

Ives kind of just debunked the whole story. (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/mls-hot-stove-trade-talk-galore-ahead-of-draft.html)

[Oldtimer]

Ives kind of just debunked the whole story. (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/mls-hot-stove-trade-talk-galore-ahead-of-draft.html)

Not fully debunked, basically no firm decision has been made.

[CretanBull]

It really doesnt matter if we know Toronto is a good city to live in, if the players out there dont, eh?


Word travels fast, players talk to each other etc. Todd Dunnivant told me that he was thrilled when he got traded here based solely on the reputation that the city has among the players.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

CretanBull is right.

A DP just for the sake of spending the money "because we have it" is just about the dumbest thing we could do.

It's not called "cheap", it's called smart. Just because you have the money, you should automatically spend it? And get the right person? Who's motivated and will help the team become a winner? And wants to live in Toronto? And who wants to play on turf? And who is available?

There are a lot of factors. I want to see a DP at some point. But I want to see the RIGHT DP for our club. No just "a DP". The DP.


A long time ago i made a vow that i will support the Maple Leafs with just some free lip service(every now and again)...It would be great if they won a Stanley Cup while i'm alive, but i won't hold my breathe...and I certainly stopped spending my hard earned money on them...

With the advent of TFC, I thought that MLSE has and will try to do things a bit differently...I actually Love Carver and Johnstone....I'm not particularly fond of the guys above them though..:cool: That being said i will give them this year to produce some REAL, STRONG, CONCRETE results...

Those results should include, but not limited to, Strong TOP 3 League Finish, Playoffs 2nd Round, Canadian Championship Winners, Strong CONCACAF Champions League Showing....I have and am commiting my money(lots of it so far) to this team...I expect the same in return. NO MORE EXCUSES! NO MORE Front Office DRAGGING THEIR FEET. I have gotten my shit in order since day one by giving them CARTE BLANCE with my bank account, NOW ITS TIME FOR THEM TO PRODUCE THE GOODS! 3 years or not i don't really care...I'm not letting myself fall into the LEAFS trap.

[Kooper]

A long time ago i made a vow that i will support the Maple Leafs with just some free lip service(every now and again)...It would be great if they won a Stanley Cup while i'm alive, but i won't hold my breathe...and I certainly stopped spending my hard earned money on them...

With the advent of TFC, I thought that MLSE has and will try to do things a bit differently...I actually Love Carver and Johnstone....I'm not particularly fond of the guys above them though..:cool: That being said i will give them this year to produce some REAL, STRONG, CONCRETE results...

Those results should include, but not limited to, Strong TOP 3 League Finish, Playoffs 2nd Round, Canadian Championship Winners, Strong CONCACAF Champions League Showing....I have and am commiting my money(lots of it so far) to this team...I expect the same in return. NO MORE EXCUSES! NO MORE Front Office DRAGGING THEIR FEET. I have gotten my shit in order since day one by giving them CARTE BLANCE with my bank account, NOW ITS TIME FOR THEM TO PRODUCE THE GOODS! 3 years or not i don't really care...I'm not letting myself fall into the LEAFS trap.

When you pay the bills you can make demands and set expectations like that. As fans as much as we would like to be able to dictate terms to management we can't. We can complain, and boy does this board like complaints, but they have their own strategies and objectives. With the exception of winning the Canadian Championship the objectives you have put forth are very aggressive for a third year team.

[Cambridge_Red]

I think we may see a dp in the summer... Either way Im more concerned about adding quality to the defence which means using up that allocation money. I think this needs to be a bigger priority.

[Yohan]

Word travels fast, players talk to each other etc. Todd Dunnivant told me that he was thrilled when he got traded here based solely on the reputation that the city has among the players.
Among MLS yes, because Toronto is in the same league.

I'm talking more in terms of internationals, esp in SA and Europe.

Wonder how Tebily or Robert feels about Toronto, and what they'd say to their friends...

[Pachuco]

All I expect from this team this season is to:
1. Win the Canada Cup or whatever it's called this month (It's a joke that we aren't even defending it)
2. Make the playoffs, don't care if it's last spot, but we need to make the playoffs.
3. Improve on our away record
4. Improve on our goals for/against average

I don't think those things are much to expect from a team that has the support they have in a league where it's anyone's cup to take.

[Yohan]

Someone get an interview of JC and outright ask him, is he happy with the squad right now...

[CretanBull]

All I expect from this team this season is to:
1. Win the Canada Cup or whatever it's called this month (It's a joke that we aren't even defending it)
2. Make the playoffs, don't care if it's last spot, but we need to make the playoffs.
3. Improve on our away record
4. Improve on our goals for/against average

I don't think those things are much to expect from a team that has the support they have in a league where it's anyone's cup to take.

^ Those are realistic and sensible expectations, I'm on board ;)

[canadian_bhoy]

CretanBull is right.

A DP just for the sake of spending the money "because we have it" is just about the dumbest thing we could do.

It's not called "cheap", it's called smart. Just because you have the money, you should automatically spend it? And get the right person? Who's motivated and will help the team become a winner? And wants to live in Toronto? And who wants to play on turf? And who is available?

There are a lot of factors. I want to see a DP at some point. But I want to see the RIGHT DP for our club. No just "a DP". The DP.

I don't think anyone could/should argue against that. I just Mo and Carver would stop saying things in the media like "We should have him in the first couple of weeks in January".

If they are having an issue signing someone - or finding the right guy, that's fine. Just say "we are committed to making this team better, that includes a DP, which we have approval for - we want the right fit and we're doing everything we can to make it happen".

That's all!

When Mo or Carver say things like "he's on his way" then nothing happens it makes them look 1) stupid 2) liars.

[Parkdale]

Wonder how Tebily or Robert feels about Toronto, and what they'd say to their friends...

who cares? they were speaking French anyway.


:rolleyes:

[Phil]

All I expect from this team this season is to:
1. Win the Canada Cup or whatever it's called this month (It's a joke that we aren't even defending it)
2. Make the playoffs, don't care if it's last spot, but we need to make the playoffs.
3. Improve on our away record
4. Improve on our goals for/against average

I don't think those things are much to expect from a team that has the support they have in a league where it's anyone's cup to take.


Good goals. I think if 3 and 4 are done then 2 would be pretty solid.

[Oldtimer]

^ Those are realistic and sensible expectations, I'm on board ;)

Yeah, but realistic and sensible are a rare thing on this board!
You should be demanding that they beat Man United in their third year of existence to win the World Club Cup! :lol:

[Super]

The club is well aware that the supporters want to see a DP striker join our team for the new season. It's not like we've been scoring goals like crazy, here. Dichio, Barrett and Ibrahim alone doesn't really make me feel all that confident going into the new season. We might get another player from within the league, which would be great, but in order to really compete we need a proven goalscorer. Someone like Angel. Or, at least, that's what I'd like to see.

But still, I think we're looking a lot stronger this season with our current squad, so I think we'll do well even without a DP striker.

[olegunnar]

Good goals. I think if 3 and 4 are done then 2 would be pretty solid.

Not to be antagonistic or anything but I think the home/road record stuff is a myth that is starting to get believed by people because it gets repeated over and over again.

Out of 7 Eastern conference teams we had the 5th best home record.

We also had the same amount of road points as 3 playoff teams KC, NYRB and RSL.

We need to score more goals and get more wins at home. Only one...ONE team in the whole league had fewer home wins than us. Dallas with 5...we had 6 home wins.
No more 0-0 against KC and SJ at home.

[brad]

We need to score more goals and get more wins at home. Only one...ONE team in the whole league had fewer home wins than us. Dallas with 5...we had 6 home wins.
No more 0-0 against KC and SJ at home.

While it's obvious we need to score more, shoring up the defense would have most likely seen us slip into the playoffs last year as well.

Now, I'll preface by saying that I hope this isn't the scenario we are looking at - I'd like a 15+ goal striker (partially for results, partially for entertainment). However, I honestly don't think it is needed. DeRo will contribute a few more goals, and create a few more (both directly and indirectly). If we land a decent MLS caliber striker to score a few more, and tighten up at the back, I think we'd see dramatic improvements in our league position. It won't necessarily be the prettiest football you've seen, but it will get the job done.

[flatpicker]

While it's obvious we need to score more, shoring up the defense would have most likely seen us slip into the playoffs last year as well.

Now, I'll preface by saying that I hope this isn't the scenario we are looking at - I'd like a 15+ goal striker (partially for results, partially for entertainment). However, I honestly don't think it is needed. DeRo will contribute a few more goals, and create a few more (both directly and indirectly). If we land a decent MLS caliber striker to score a few more, and tighten up at the back, I think we'd see dramatic improvements in our league position. It won't necessarily be the prettiest football you've seen, but it will get the job done.


For sure...
The addition of DeRo will definitely mean more goals (even with the existing strike force we have now)
Add a decent defender to the mix and I think the number of wins will greatly improve.
Another "MLS caliber striker", as you say, would take us even further.

This team has potential, we are already better than last year, a couple decent pieces (and no DP) will take us into the playoffs!