Ives: Trader Mo Ready to Deal

[James17930]

"The Toronto FC director of soccer is holding some big cards in this year's draft. Not only does Toronto FC boast the No. 2 and No. 4 picks in a top-heavy draft, but the club is ready to deal both of those picks to bolster their squad with veterans. With half the teams in the league lining up to make offers for those picks, Johnson is already considering several deals that should keep him and his staff busy through the next week leading up to the MLS Draft on Jan. 15th.

So which teams just are lining up to do business with Toronto? Here are five teams sources have identified as being in the mix . . ."


Read it here:


http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/trader-mo-is-ready-to-deal.html

[Flipityflu]

its nice to have cards people want.

[James17930]

What's the best move, d'you think? I honestly don't know.

[DOMIN8R]

In Mo we trust.

[Flipityflu]

a veteran CB is a must. we come out of draft day with that, and i would be a happy camper.

[Nodoubtguy]

a veteran CB is a must. we come out of draft day with that, and i would be a happy camper.

Would we be happy with Wilman Conde??

[J .]

Bring in Will Johnson!

[Shakes McQueen]

Would we be happy with Wilman Conde??

If he was willing to stay with us? Sure. But I've heard that he is intent on leaving MLS if he doesn't end up in New York.

- Scott

[Pigfynn]

Hose em' Mo...fucking hose em'!!

[Shakes McQueen]

Bring in Will Johnson!

Not bloody likely. I don't know why Ives even mentioned him. He was gold for RSL last season, and there is just no way they would trade him away for the chance at an unproven draft pick.

Johnson is also relatively cheap.

- Scott

[sidvan]

Conde if he will play here and deal package to Dallas if Serioux deal can be made.

[invictusTFC]

I don't think Mo has any other choice but to deal. The way the team is shaping up the window of opportunity to make a run at the MLS Cup is short. As far as youth is concerned we have Ibbe, Attakora, Johann Smith and to a lesser extent Chad Barrett who are not just future assets but they can contribute now as well. Furthermore, as we have seen with last years draft (i.e. Julius James), first round draft picks are far from being guaranteed MLS ready players. If Mo can make some deals that will add depth to this team, I say go for it.

[T_Mizz]

I'd like to see us have more domestic players so those deals with Dallas and Salt Lake are appealing, especially since I have a bit of a man-crush on Johnson, this way we could deal our international spots which are also fairly decent bargaining chips IMO.

[sidvan]

Johnson would be nice but do we need the whole team to go to the Gold cup this summer?

[T_Mizz]

Not bloody likely. I don't know why Ives even mentioned him. He was gold for RSL last season, and there is just no way they would trade him away for the chance at an unproven draft pick.

Johnson is also relatively cheap.

- Scott
I think it might make sense getting a domestic as opposed to an international if the oppurtunity is there. There's a couple of great playmakers in this year's draft so its a definite possibility

[ben_vw]

Conde if he will play here and deal package to Dallas if Serioux deal can be made.

If our defense is Wynne - Conde - Serioux - Brennan this season, I'll be satisfied.

[sidvan]

Don't see anything happening here until late next week at the earliest.

[rudiker]

If Omar is this much of a "High Demand", why wouldn't we grab him up?

[Beach_Red]

Johnson would be nice but do we need the whole team to go to the Gold cup this summer?

Yes, better the whole team - embarrass MLS into changing the date, give them no choice.

[invictusTFC]

Conde if he will play here and deal package to Dallas if Serioux deal can be made.

DeRo, Conde, Serioux, Johnson and potentially a DP! I think people forget that this league has a cap. I know Mo is sitting on about $800k in allocation but even he can't stretch it that much. That money will be exhausted between DeRo and the DP alone. I can't see the club signing both Conde and Serioux. If Mo can turn one or two of those pics into allocation money then I expect the team to sign themselves a solid CB.

[BuSaPuNk]

If our defense is Wynne - Conde - Serioux - Brennan this season, I'll be satisfied.

That would be nice wouldn't it?

[Roogsy]

Get'r done!

[brad]

If Omar is this much of a "High Demand", why wouldn't we grab him up?

We need someone with experience in that role now.

[Brooker]

That would be nice wouldn't it?

almost too nice.

[J .]

I would trade both lower draft picks.. Conde and Johnson added to our lineup. I would love an up and comming Canadian striker to pair up with DeRo and Che and Barrett up front. Conde would solidify our backend...

Playoffs? I like the double with DeRo and those two guys added to our lineup.

[TFC OZZ]

We need someone with experience in that role now.

I disagree. What we don't need, is to be in the exact same situation next year looking for a new CB. I say we pick up Gonzales ourselves, ship out Velez/Marshall and bring in a veteran CB through those trades. Imagine, if this guy Gonzalez is as good as he's touted to be, than for the forseeable future, we will have a consitant backline, as opposed to the "yearly shuffle" that we are seeing now.

Pair Gonzalez with a talented veteran and I think we'll be set, similar to how Maurice Edu was influenced by Carl Robinson. I would be very unhappy if we did not draft Gonzalez.

[tfc]

I disagree. What we don't need, is to be in the exact same situation next year looking for a new CB. I say we pick up Gonzales ourselves, ship out Velez/Marshall and bring in a veteran CB through those trades. Imagine, if this guy Gonzalez is as good as he's touted to be, than for the forseeable future, we will have a consitant backline, as opposed to the "yearly shuffle" that we are seeing now.

Pair Gonzalez with a talented veteran and I think we'll be set, similar to how Maurice Edu was influenced by Carl Robinson. I would be very unhappy if we did not draft Gonzalez.

I see your point, but draft kids very rarely end up being solid in their first year. our weakness will be our back line, we need at least one solid guy in the back with wynne and brennan and possibly marshall to do well. If we get a guy who can boss the back line i have no problem with bringing gonzalez in as well for depth, but i dont want to have him as a starting XI right off the bat.

[TFC07]

How about TFC trade one of their draft picks + player for a DP slot so that TFC can use 2nd DP slot on DeRo who is looking for a big raise?

[Shaughno]

How about TFC trade one of their draft picks + player for a DP slot so that TFC can use 2nd DP slot on DeRo who is looking for a big raise?


We have DeRo, he just wants money. We have a shit tonne of allocation money, why not use it to our advantage and bring DeRo's salary down a bit all the while freeing up some cap space and keeping our DP options open for use later if an appropriate player is needed/found.

[TFC07]

We have DeRo, he just wants money. We have a shit tonne of allocation money, why not use it to our advantage and bring DeRo's salary down a bit all the while freeing up some cap space and keeping our DP options open for use later if an appropriate player is needed/found.

But TFC's allocation money runs out end of this season. We need tons of allocation money next season to cover DeRo and Robinson's contracts.

[Stouffville_RPB]

I disagree. What we don't need, is to be in the exact same situation next year looking for a new CB. I say we pick up Gonzales ourselves, ship out Velez/Marshall and bring in a veteran CB through those trades. Imagine, if this guy Gonzalez is as good as he's touted to be, than for the forseeable future, we will have a consitant backline, as opposed to the "yearly shuffle" that we are seeing now.

Pair Gonzalez with a talented veteran and I think we'll be set, similar to how Maurice Edu was influenced by Carl Robinson. I would be very unhappy if we did not draft Gonzalez.

Great in theory but last year Julius James was supposed to be the top defender in the draft. Not saying Gonzalez is James but a draft in a sport where the most talented are picked up well before 20 is just for filler. Only once in a while does someone become a star in the MLS draft. Soccer just isn't a draft friendly sport.

Allocation money runs out, so does a teams ability to win. We have alot of allocation money and guys like DeRo, Robinson, Guevara who may not play many more years at their level. Draft prospects will always be there.

[Shaughno]

Robbo and Dichio both agreed to renegotiate to lower contracts from what I've read. No reason why Robbo would need allocation money.

You are correct about DeRo though, and to be honest I am 90% sure that's what they are trying to work out with DeRo is how to, and how much to pay him in the future.

[Shaughno]

Great in theory but last year Julius James was supposed to be the top defender in the draft. Not saying Gonzalez is James but a draft in a sport where the most talented are picked up well before 20 is just for filler. Only once in a while does someone become a star in the MLS draft. Soccer just isn't a draft friendly sport.



Really? Maybe not stars... but these guys are all regular starters (or gone already) in the MLS and fairly highly rated as well.

Maurice Edu - 1st pick '07 (sold to Rangers)
Bakary Soumare - 2nd pick '07 ('08 MLS Best XI)
Michael Harrington - 3rd pick '07
Marvel Wynne - 1st pick '06
Sacha Kljestan - 5th pick '06
Jozy Altidore - 15th pick '06 (sold to Villareal)
Brad Guzan - 2nd pick '05 (sold to Aston Villa)
Chad Barrett - 3rd pick '05
Hunter Freeman - 7th pick '05 (sold to IK Start)
Michael Parkhurst - 9th pick '05

Now, not all of them are all stars but all solid MLS or better players that came from the drafts.

[Lucky Strike]

I'll agree that the experience with Julius James soured me on the draft last year, yet I'll always say (as Saughno does) that it can't be ignored. If you do your homework right, you can sniff out a good player.

Package picks 4 and 13 for help where it's needed and use #2 for Gonzalez who is now for sure a GenAdidas player - no cap hit (see http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090107&content_id=210926&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp). Then ship out Vélez for a solid CB who'll boss the place and can teach Gonzalez the way Edu learned from Robbo.

P.S. Zakuani (also GenAdidas) is currently predicted to go #1 overall so Gonzalez would be available to us in that scenario.

[Keyman]

The acquisition of either Johnson and Serioux/Conde or just Serioux and Conde would both be the best possible outcomes, in my opinion. Johnson's salary is miniscule for his talent (39K), and he would add some skill and versatility to our team, with his ability to play in various positions. Both Serioux and Conde are solid defenders, and neither would break the bank, as Serioux's salary is 113K and Conde's salary is at 156K. If we were to acquire two central defenders, we would leave the draft with a very, very solid team. A backline consisting of Wynne, Conde, Serioux and Brennan would rank up with the best in MLS. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, we would still have enough space under the cap, if allocations are used, to bring in a top drawer striker as our DP.

People should realize that building for the future is a terrible mindset to have with the current state of this league. Stockpiling talented, young players, is counter-productive as they will more than likely, within three years, go abroad to play. The best mindset to have, in my opinion, is to play in the "now". Acquire players who you know can help you win within the next 5 years, and then re-evaluate once that time period is up. These players are not going to leave if they are over 26. While doing this, allocate a large chunk of money to the academy, which should be viewed as our future. This will help produce a steady flow of young, loyal, domestic players, while also giving us high quality teams every year.

[Nuvinho]

2nd & 13th pick for 11th pick, Serioux, and minor allocation ($75K)

4th pick & minor allocation for Conde

You still have the 11th pick were you can take a serviceable player or take White.

You add around $275K to the payroll (as mentioned about), but you now have a solid backline. Which will make Velez or Marshall expendable, maybe even for a draft pick.

[Beach_Red]

I'll agree that the experience with Julius James soured me on the draft last year, yet I'll always say (as Saughno does) that it can't be ignored. If you do your homework right, you can sniff out a good player.


It also depends on the team the guy's drafted into. I'm still pissed at Tebily quitting - if JJ had one season as a back-up to higher quality players he may have developed differently. I realize he's a little "old" to still need more developing, but there's a good chance if he hadn't had to step in to a starting role so much it would have been quite different.

[Lucky Strike]

It also depends on the team the guy's drafted into. I'm still pissed at Tebily quitting - if JJ had one season as a back-up to higher quality players he may have developed differently. I realize he's a little "old" to still need more developing, but there's a good chance if he hadn't had to step in to a starting role so much it would have been quite different.

Yes, I was psyched about him, he looked like our best defender by a mile. I wouldn't say I'm pissed though, just bitterly disappointed (though some might say that's the same thing).

[Oldtimer]

If Mo picks up Conde, it will still be to trade him to NY.

[TFC OZZ]

Keep in mind, like it was mentioned above that Gonzalez's salary doesn't count towards the cap.

I would be ecstatic if we picked up Gonzalez, and shipped off the other two picks for Serioux. Obviously Julius James did sort of sour us all on the draft a bit, but when you look at Gonzalez's size, and the fact that I personally can't remember this much hype for a player that we had the potential to sign in the last two drafts, I think it would be wise to gamble on him. I'm a fan of large centre-backs, and he sure as hell fits the bill.

Secondly, I really want Will Johnson, but I'm worried that he wants consistent playing time, which I'm not sure that he'll get. Having said that, Guevera/DeRo/Robbo/Dichio are all getting up in years. But damn, 39K? That's an unbelievable steal.

[ensco]

Really? Maybe not stars... but these guys are all regular starters (or gone already) in the MLS and fairly highly rated as well.

Maurice Edu - 1st pick '07 (sold to Rangers)
Bakary Soumare - 2nd pick '07 ('08 MLS Best XI)
Michael Harrington - 3rd pick '07
Marvel Wynne - 1st pick '06
Sacha Kljestan - 5th pick '06
Jozy Altidore - 15th pick '06 (sold to Villareal)
Brad Guzan - 2nd pick '05 (sold to Aston Villa)
Chad Barrett - 3rd pick '05
Hunter Freeman - 7th pick '05 (sold to IK Start)
Michael Parkhurst - 9th pick '05

Now, not all of them are all stars but all solid MLS or better players that came from the drafts.

Interesting list. Note that 7 of those 10 players were top five picks, so the value of later first round picks drops dramatically.

The odds of finding a Parkhurst (ie a solid starter or star in the mid or late stages of the first round)are pretty slim. For more on this, see:

Boyens, A.
Phelan, P.
James, J.

The Gonzalez talk reminds me of the James talk before last year's draft. All these teams were "dying" to trade up for James...and we know where James went, so I don't put much stock in that.

But our 2 and 4 picks can, and should, bring a lot in trade.

I would like to keep one of those picks, we are still building and must rely on good drafting in the long run. Most of Columbus' and DCU's core came through the draft.

[Shaughno]

Interesting list. Note that 7 of those 10 players were top five picks, so the value of later first round picks drops dramatically.

The odds of finding a Parkhurst (ie a solid starter or star in the mid or late stages of the first round)are pretty slim. For more on this, see:

Boyens, A.
Phelan, P.
James, J.

The Gonzalez talk reminds me of the James talk before last year's draft. All these teams were "dying" to trade up for James...and we know where James went, so I don't put much stock in that.

But our 2 and 4 picks can, and should, bring a lot in trade.

I would like to keep one of those picks, we are still building and must rely on good drafting in the long run. Most of Columbus' and DCU's core came through the draft.


I pretty much agree but if you look through the first two rounds of the past few drafts (last year not included), there are a surprising amount of players that are now starters in the MLS, and at a decently young age as well.

[Pigfynn]

Where did that Robbie Rogers get picked? He'd do, or someone like him.

[Shaughno]

Where did that Robbie Rogers get picked? He'd do, or someone like him.


He was signed to a team in the Dutch league I'm pretty sure and then Columbus won him through a 'lottery'. :rolleyes:

[Pigfynn]

oh, ok makes sense

[MFG1]

I cant see and I hope Toronto doesnt deal with Chicago for a while. Remember when Paul said that they"wont forget" when Chicago dragged its ass with the Mcbride/barrett deal. I would love for Mo to just brush them off or really stick it to them

[Marc"2L"]

haha fuck Chicago!

But seriously, Allocation money would be fine with me.

[Pigfynn]

I cant see and I hope Toronto doesnt deal with Chicago for a while. Remember when Paul said that they"wont forget" when Chicago dragged its ass with the Mcbride/barrett deal. I would love for Mo to just brush them off or really stick it to them

getting Conde only to trade him to NY would do it lol

[Lucky Strike]

If Mo picks up Conde, it will still be to trade him to NY.

But what might we need from RBNY? I'd say Van den Bergh but he's just re-signed a new contract.

[Shaughno]

But what might we need from RBNY? I'd say Van den Bergh but he's just re-signed a new contract.


With the league though right, NYRB only have his rights as it is with all players. DeRo had just signed a new deal with Houston had he not?

[Lucky Strike]

With the league though right, NYRB only have his rights as it is with all players. DeRo had just signed a new deal with Houston had he not?

Yes that's true but I was more trying to say that the fact that DVB signed a new contract makes him more unlikely to move, not necessarily impossible, as the DeRo saga has taught us.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

people should give up on Conde, im a bit surprised hes even been mentioned, he wants to play under Osario or noone and since this is his last year im willing to bet he wont resign with the MLS having learned what he did. Serioux is a great idea, not sure who RSL has in the CB position but im sure they might be worth looking at dealing with as well...

[Hugh Jazz]

I'd say going after Serioux is the best of the options listed, going after Conde seems like it would waste more time as he'll probably want to get moved again. I don't like drafting a defender either as we already have two young players in our backline: Wynne and Nana, throw in another and I don't think Nana will get the attention/time off the he deserves. I guess we'll find out pretty soon either way.

[invictusTFC]

people should give up on Conde, im a bit surprised hes even been mentioned, he wants to play under Osario or noone and since this is his last year im willing to bet he wont resign with the MLS having learned what he did. Serioux is a great idea, not sure who RSL has in the CB position but im sure they might be worth looking at dealing with as well...

Wasn't Conde recently linked to a club abroad?

[TorontoBlades]

Sounds like we should keep our pick and take the Cronin kid

[brad]

I disagree. What we don't need, is to be in the exact same situation next year looking for a new CB. I say we pick up Gonzales ourselves, ship out Velez/Marshall and bring in a veteran CB through those trades. Imagine, if this guy Gonzalez is as good as he's touted to be, than for the forseeable future, we will have a consitant backline, as opposed to the "yearly shuffle" that we are seeing now.

Assuming we could do this without having to ship out a quality player now or something else of value now, I would agree. However, it's never that easy in the MLS. I doubt a straight swap for Marshall or Velez would be possible.

Draft pick for Serioux makes the most sense to fill this void.

[Pachuco]

I thought I read somewhere that Gonzales won't play in T.O? that he wants to play in Dallas or somewhere else. If my memory serves me right, then that's probably why Mo won't draft Gonzales and he's looking at trading for his spot instead. Or maybe Mo just doesn't rate Gonzales the way everyone else does. Mo's proven he can make the right decision at the draft so I'll just wait and see what he does.

[CretanBull]

Julius James didn't shine in Toronto, but he was a rookie who was trying to adapt to a new level of play on a team that had a very shaky backline...I wouldn't be surprised to see him do 'well' in Houston.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Gonzales has traded with Dallas previously and supposedly could be tempted by the allure of playing for LA. As for instant impact, its highly doubtful, trade him off as we are in great need of a solid CB, something that cannot be counted on with regards to draftpicks.

[DigzTFC!]

I think if there are no revelations at the combine and we can't get Zakuani, we will trade our top two picks. Gonzalez is a two to three year project like Soumare. We need help a CB now. There are guys out there that are projects like Nana and Marcus Haber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Haber

[Ossington Mental Youth]

wonder how haber did at Gillingham, it was great to see Simeon Jackson score the other day

[VPjr]

I think if there are no revelations at the combine and we can't get Zakuani, we will trade our top two picks. Gonzalez is a two to three year project like Soumare. We need help a CB now. There are guys out there that are projects like Nana and Marcus Haber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Haber

Haber fancies himself a striker

[J .]

I dont see why people hate on James so much. He was a decent player, played on a team that struggled a lot defensively. I think he can play the game and will be a good player in 2-3 years with more time and development.

However, I think TFC has good young talent in players. Attakora, JoSmith, Ibbe, Barrett are good guys who can play now but have tremendous upside.

We should trade our first rounders for players who can play now. Serioux and Johnson would be excellent additions, but we need two central defenders and I cant see Serioux coming here.

[Cashcleaner]

a veteran CB is a must. we come out of draft day with that, and i would be a happy camper.

Define "veteran". It's NCAA kids that we're drafting, so we're still looking at some further development time at the club level.

[ensco]

Define "veteran". It's NCAA kids that we're drafting, so we're still looking at some further development time at the club level.

I think he means by trading draft pick(s) on draft day, for a veteran CB.

[rocker]

I dont see why people hate on James so much. He was a decent player, played on a team that struggled a lot defensively. I think he can play the game and will be a good player in 2-3 years with more time and development.

well, he did blow it and give that penalty against Dallas that cost us a win and perhaps a chance at the playoffs. ;)

I thought James was more inept than any other defender on the team (worse than Velez). TFC was just slightly worse than average in defense (according to goals against) so it wasn't like we had the worst defense in the league around him.

And yeah he might develop, but in 3 years he'll be 27 years old going on 28 in July of that year, and will have no more upside, so he's not a prospect at all.

I thought he was a physical freak with so much to learn about the mental side of the game. If he were 20 years old, then I'd give him a break. But he's old by prospect standards.

[Pachuco]

well, he did blow it and give that penalty against Dallas that cost us a win and perhaps a chance at the playoffs. ;)

I thought James was more inept than any other defender on the team (worse than Velez). TFC was just slightly worse than average in defense (according to goals against) so it wasn't like we had the worst defense in the league around him.

And yeah he might develop, but in 3 years he'll be 27 years old going on 28 in July of that year, and will have no more upside, so he's not a prospect at all.

I thought he was a physical freak with so much to learn about the mental side of the game. If he were 20 years old, then I'd give him a break. But he's old by prospect standards.

Give me a break. What about all the other games we lost or tied last year? those weren't part of missing the playoffs? How about the Wynne penalty against DC. Or the Guevara penalty against whatever team that was. How about Hunter Freeman's own goal? How about Sutton blowing it in the last game against NY (I believe) by giving the ball back to them with 1 minute left on the clock? there's a million reasons we didn't make the playoffs, so it's pretty short sided to say he blew it and cost us a chance at the playoffs. In fact, he didn't play enough to have anything to do with us missing the playoffs. Blame the players who were on the field day in and day out for missing the playoffs.

[rocker]

Give me a break. What about all the other games we lost or tied last year? those weren't part of missing the playoffs? How about the Wynne penalty against DC. Or the Guevara penalty against whatever team that was. How about Hunter Freeman's own goal? How about Sutton blowing it in the last game against NY (I believe) by giving the ball back to them with 1 minute left on the clock? there's a million reasons we didn't make the playoffs, so it's pretty short sided to say he blew it and cost us a chance at the playoffs. In fact, he didn't play enough to have anything to do with us missing the playoffs. Blame the players who were on the field day in and day out for missing the playoffs.

calm down. he asked why people hated James and I gave a suggestion.
doesn't mean I hate James or that his penalty kept us out of the playoffs.

also see the word "perhaps" and the wink after.

[Pachuco]

calm down. he asked why people hated James and I gave a suggestion.
doesn't mean I hate James or that his penalty kept us out of the playoffs.

also see the word "perhaps" and the wink after.

I'm pretty calm actually :)

Was just making a point.