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SweetOwnGoal
12-15-2008, 10:00 PM
An interesting documentary on Mo, made just after he retired from playing. It runs about 30 minutes.

http://theoffsiderules.blogspot.com/2008/12/must-see-video-judas-mo-johnston-story.html

If you support Hearts, remove all sharp objects before watching...

rocker
12-15-2008, 10:34 PM
his wife is hot! mo respect!

rocker
12-15-2008, 10:44 PM
mo's short shorts at celtic look like underwear!

MG42
12-15-2008, 10:56 PM
mo's short shorts at celtic look like underwear!


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/1552621.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6D81DBB7B6E81A653 9930FDCFC4C15FBB

Corpand
12-15-2008, 10:56 PM
His wife is smokin

29:55 - 30:10 - good ol' Mo

sully
12-15-2008, 11:01 PM
I can't believe Everton wanted him to play a few pre-season games in the North of Ireland at that time of all places after what happened in Scotland....jeez..

Overall fair play to Mo, he put football ahead of bigotry...and probably enlightened a few sectarian bigots in doing so...

stretchthetruth
12-16-2008, 12:52 AM
that was excellent... thanks for posting it!

Redcoe15
12-16-2008, 01:42 AM
Holy fuck. It's so hard to imagine how many people over there had their heads so up their asses at the time. Big props to Mo for doing that.

Dunc
12-16-2008, 02:03 AM
does anyone know what he was sent off for in the league cup final against rangers? i have trouble following things with the Scottish accents, but it seemed like he was just talking about regretting crossing himself after being sent off, not the actual sending off, I didn't get what that whole situation was.

CretanBull
12-16-2008, 04:32 AM
He was sent off for crossing himself....

TFCREDNWHITE
12-16-2008, 08:51 AM
Bravo Mo' .....I think it takes a big man to break down big barriers! That whole religious thing needs to be quashed...poor people who died over that bullshit!

flatpicker
12-16-2008, 02:53 PM
great video!
It was nice to learn more about Mo since I was not familiar with him as a player.

invictusTFC
12-16-2008, 04:06 PM
mo's short shorts at celtic look like underwear!

I think "ball huggers" is the technical term for them.

stretchthetruth
12-16-2008, 10:10 PM
I think "ball huggers" is the technical term for them.


hahahaha at one point, his shorts looked like friggin' womens' beach volleyball shorts... "ball huggers" or "ass riders" - both work! :p

zeelaw
12-16-2008, 10:21 PM
Nice find. Watching it now. sweet

FluSH
12-16-2008, 10:25 PM
same... watching it now.... although that 5-nil trashing was pretty bad...

zeelaw
12-16-2008, 10:51 PM
He was sent off for crossing himself....
no he crossed himself on the way off

FluSH
12-16-2008, 10:57 PM
The worst part in that video was MO winning a cup with the Wizards. Take us to the promise land Mo...

Hustle
12-17-2008, 12:15 AM
Wicked Find...learned alot....what a story.

CretanBull
12-17-2008, 12:44 AM
no he crossed himself on the way off

I haven't had a chance to watch the movie yet, but I've read elsewhere that he once got red carded for crossing himself - it was seen as "a provocation to incite religious violence".

zeelaw
12-17-2008, 02:04 AM
I haven't had a chance to watch the movie yet, but I've read elsewhere that he once got red carded for crossing himself - it was seen as "a provocation to incite religious violence".
oh cool...

Brooker
12-17-2008, 04:53 AM
great video when your bored at 4am! or any time!

cheers.

Super
12-18-2008, 09:40 PM
Great documentary. Loved the goal he scored for Everton against Man Utd with Peter Schmeichel in Goal :D

Roogsy
12-18-2008, 11:23 PM
Very interesting documentary.

Can someone in the know explain why Mo was considered unwanted after the sending off? I why the crossing could be viewed as provocation but what caused the rift with Celtic? Seems to me he would have remained with the club had they not wanted him out?

.J.B.
12-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Awesome!!!
That's it.........

King Tut
12-20-2008, 03:23 AM
Great video man...Mo has balls to pull off a move like that...

Fiin
12-20-2008, 05:19 AM
How many times do you think he has smashed his head into his desk going "I had hear like that?!?!"

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 01:52 AM
Great player, unfortunately, his word is not his bond.

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Some big hair, all right.

I always think of athletes as living in a kind of suspended adolescence, they don't really mature till they're thirty so take everything they say as you would a teenager.

But that documentary sure makes the whole thing look like a lot of game playing on the part of all the teams involved, the managers and the agent - the contract was held by a private company not the team, FIFA made a ruling, teams wouldn't deal with the private company, and on and on. Agents, managers and lawyers - every one of them with a different, self-serving story and a personal agenda...

Seems to me you've got to blame everyone involved equally - or no one at all.

Roogsy
12-21-2008, 12:48 PM
Some big hair, all right.

I always think of athletes as living in a kind of suspended adolescence, they don't really mature till they're thirty so take everything they say as you would a teenager.

But that documentary sure makes the whole thing look like a lot of game playing on the part of all the teams involved, the managers and the agent - the contract was held by a private company not the team, FIFA made a ruling, teams wouldn't deal with the private company, and on and on. Agents, managers and lawyers - every one of them with a different, self-serving story and a personal agenda...

Seems to me you've got to blame everyone involved equally - or no one at all.


I agree. Sports is a dirty business and the players are usually the face of that business, but there's a lot of foolishness going on behind the scenes by many participants.

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 02:18 PM
Mo only had his own interests at heart & while I can't blame him for that, he die tell a few porkie pies (lies) His public proclamations & subsequent u-turns indicated at the time he was never on the same page as his oily agent. Hopefully he has matured & looks back on some of the doubletalk & cringes

The good thing about the documentary was that it gives u guys a peek at the horrible secterianism & bogotry that plagued the west of Scotland then. Thankfully those days are gone & only a minority of idiots still cling to the hatred thing.

Let's be clear though, Mo wasn't being alturistic & fighting bogotry by signing for Rangers, he was serving his own purposes. I'd have to say Souness & his chairman, Murray made a brave stab at erasing bigotry, Mo tho, was justan imature pawn.

I grew up in those times, my father being protestant & mother being catholic, Me attending a catholic school & being a Celtic supporter made for some frightful days, the depth of hatred ny adults & many teenagers then was unbeleivable.

We are blessed to be Canadians & live in a society that by & large doesn't have to deal with that nonsense.

Merry Christmas to all TFC fans whatever your affiliations are.

Roogsy
12-21-2008, 02:33 PM
Mo only had his own interests at heart & while I can't blame him for that, he die tell a few porkie pies (lies) His public proclamations & subsequent u-turns indicated at the time he was never on the same page as his oily agent. Hopefully he has matured & looks back on some of the doubletalk & cringes

The good thing about the documentary was that it gives u guys a peek at the horrible secterianism & bogotry that plagued the west of Scotland then. Thankfully those days are gone & only a minority of idiots still cling to the hatred thing.

Let's be clear though, Mo wasn't being alturistic & fighting bogotry by signing for Rangers, he was serving his own purposes. I'd have to say Souness & his chairman, Murray made a brave stab at erasing bigotry, Mo tho, was justan imature pawn.

I grew up in those times, my father being protestant & mother being catholic, Me attending a catholic school & being a Celtic supporter made for some frightful days, the depth of hatred ny adults & many teenagers then was unbeleivable.

We are blessed to be Canadians & live in a society that by & large doesn't have to deal with that nonsense.

Merry Christmas to all TFC fans whatever your affiliations are.

Wrong time to start posting with your anti-Mo stuff BB...he just brought us DeRo, right now Mo is a favourite around here.

Try around the start of the season, maybe you will find a few more around here that are agreeable with your obsession over Mo. :D

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Altruism is a rare commodity anywhere and when big money is involved even less so. And really, should we expect it? The agent sure does look "oily" in the docu. All the management does.

They did mention that Sounes and Murray agreed quickly and then probably regretted it so there's a question as to how brave they were. And it was Mo who was, as you say a pawn, and who got to be the very public face of it. I mean, the docu is called "Judas."

Sport is, as Roogsy says, an ugly business. What I find frustrating is that the managers and agents and lawyers involved can have very long careers, always finding new young talent to exploit and dumping them at the first sign of injury or other trouble and most athletes only have a very few years to make the bulk of their income before they have to start again on another career - which an awful lot are never successful at (it's tough enough to be good at one thing).

There seem to be plenty of "bad guys" in all this and you'd hope they all look back on it and see how badly it was handled. It really does seem, though, that too many people in positions of power and control were way too happy to let the player take all the ire and none of the responsibility themselves. As it usually is.

I knew nothing about the history of Scotland and this stuff till a couple years ago but it's common in most of the world, so the Scots shouldn't beat themselves up about it. And you're right, we're lucky to have not gone through that here.

I still remember when Guy Lafleur showed up at the forum in Montreal playing for the Nordiques and what a classy reception the Montreal fans gave him. Pissed off at managment, sure, but not the player.

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 03:19 PM
Wrong time to start posting with your anti-Mo stuff BB...he just brought us DeRo, right now Mo is a favourite around here.

Try around the start of the season, maybe you will find a few more around here that are agreeable with your obsession over Mo. :D

Actually, it's not antiMo. That piece was on a young Mo, hopefully he's mature, like most of us I'm sure he's done his fair share of immature stuff.

Like I said, I lived thru that period in Scotland, so I know what I'm talking about. I have no obsession on Mo, just observations. :noidea:

Last I heard that was allowed:canada:

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 03:27 PM
Altruism is a rare commodity anywhere and when big money is involved even less so. And really, should we expect it? The agent sure does look "oily" in the docu. All the management does.

They did mention that Sounes and Murray agreed quickly and then probably regretted it so there's a question as to how brave they were. And it was Mo who was, as you say a pawn, and who got to be the very public face of it. I mean, the docu is called "Judas."

Sport is, as Roogsy says, an ugly business. What I find frustrating is that the managers and agents and lawyers involved can have very long careers, always finding new young talent to exploit and dumping them at the first sign of injury or other trouble and most athletes only have a very few years to make the bulk of their income before they have to start again on another career - which an awful lot are never successful at (it's tough enough to be good at one thing).

There seem to be plenty of "bad guys" in all this and you'd hope they all look back on it and see how badly it was handled. It really does seem, though, that too many people in positions of power and control were way too happy to let the player take all the ire and none of the responsibility themselves. As it usually is.

I knew nothing about the history of Scotland and this stuff till a couple years ago but it's common in most of the world, so the Scots shouldn't beat themselves up about it. And you're right, we're lucky to have not gone through that here.

I still remember when Guy Lafleur showed up at the forum in Montreal playing for the Nordiques and what a classy reception the Montreal fans gave him. Pissed off at managment, sure, but not the player.

Actually, Billy McNeil the Celtic Mgr at the time & a real class act as player, mgr & person has had the last word on this episode, he 's on record as saying what actually went down. At the end of the day, he let Mo off the hook on what Fifa viewed as a legally binding contract. His view was that he didn't want any part of a player who wasn't up for playing for the team. He was pissed at Mo going back on his word to him, even after all this time he still gets angry at some of the revisionism that goes on.

Google it if you want his perspective. Like I said, Mo was a bit of a young pawn & did tell a few bare faced lies to McNeill. His agent was a beaut, oily as they come.

What can't be taken away from Mo, was the fact that he was a great player, he covered every blade of turf when he played.

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Actually, Billy McNeil the Celtic Mgr at the time & a real class act as player, mgr & person has had the last word on this episode, he 's on record as saying what actually went down. At the end of the day, he let Mo off the hook on what Fifa viewed as a legally binding contract. His view was that he didn't want any part of a player who wasn't up for playing for the team. He was pissed at Mo going back on his word to him, even after all this time he still gets angry at some of the revisionism that goes on.

Google it if you want his perspective. Like I said, Mo was a bit of a young pawn & did tell a few bare faced lies to McNeill. His agent was a beaut, oily as they come.

What can't be taken away from Mo, was the fact that he was a great player, he covered every blade of turf when he played.

That's the thing about revisionist history, it's constantly changing.

I did a lot of research into the Jackie Robinson stuff when I wrote the radio drama and the same people said quite different things ten, twenty, thirty years later.

What I found interesting was trying to find the information the people were working with at the time. Robinson made a lot of decisions based on information he was given that wasn't always reliable and almost always was slanted for someone else's self-interest - and he didn't even have an oily agent.

Branch Rickey has been made quite a hero in the whole thing - and he certainly deserves a lot of the respect - but he also picked Robinson because he didn't think he was a major league baseball talent and didn't mind sacrificing him to his "great experiment" if it failed and he had to try again with another player. Of course, no one ever told this to Robinson (but they did only sign him to a one year contract with the Montreal Royals, not the Dodgers and Robinson was smart enough to figure it out - if he failed, he would have been completely on his own).

One thing I believe is that we should never take an athlete too seriously when they say where they want to play. They probably always mean it when they say it (it's rarely a lie from the athlete, usually they are emotional kids) but they rarely have the real final say.

I wonder how many of those Rangers fans in the docu saying they'll never wear the colours again are wearing them now?

Would you say that anything good came out of this whole thing?

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 07:41 PM
The good that came out of it was Rangers officially ending the no Catholic signing policy, there were predecessors in the 50's but it was hushed - up. Kudo's to Mr Murray for doing that, it started a gradual easing off from intolerance & bigotry.

As for the Rangers fans, some never got over it, I think Rangers are better off without that bigotted element. Unfortunately they still exist at bothe Celtic & Rangers, although, they are a dying breed.

I remember the great Jock Stein, a Protestant Celtic Mgr, saying that if he had to choose between signing a catholic or protestant of equal ability, he'd sign the protestant, "cause he knew Rangers would never sign a catholic.

Growing up in Scotland as a Catholic with a protestant father was a real eye opener, some of the stuff that otherwise rational grown men would say & do was shocking.

It's hard for Canadians to understand that depth of hate, gladly it's on the wane

Roogsy
12-21-2008, 07:54 PM
It's hard for Canadians to understand that depth of hate, gladly it's on the wane


Ah the arrogance, like Scotland is the only place in the world where hate is found. :rolleyes:

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 08:04 PM
Ah the arrogance, like Scotland is the only place in the world where hate is found. :rolleyes:

Well, to be fair, he didn't say no one could understand it, just that it's hard for Canadians to understand. And that's true. I grew up in Montreal in the 60's and 70's - on the south shore, the first place that went PQ - with my very english name, and it was nothing compared to other places in the world.

Now, if I'd grown up on an Indian reservation....

Roogsy
12-21-2008, 08:12 PM
A large portion of Canadians are immigrants who come from parts of the world where hate is thriving. I am sure that they are fully aware of the dark side of humanity, and they don't necessarily have to come from Scotland.

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 08:18 PM
^ okay, that's true enough. I guess he should have said, "People who were born in Canada and have never lived anywhere else...." or something like that.

Sometimes, of course, Canadians have a lot of what I would call "willful naivete," where everytime we come across that kind of hate (or other awful stuff) we're shocked - more than we should be. There's plenty of bigotry and hate in Canada.

Roogsy
12-21-2008, 08:22 PM
^ okay, that's true enough. I guess he should have said, "People who were born in Canada and have never lived anywhere else...." or something like that.

Sometimes, of course, Canadians have a lot of what I would call "willful naivete," where everytime we come across that kind of hate (or other awful stuff) we're shocked - more than we should be. There's plenty of bigotry and hate in Canada.

We do live in a somewhat sheltered life in Canada...and I am thankful for that. But many Canadians are fully aware of or have experienced the dark things that are happening in this world and it is for that reason that they find themselves here.

Beach_Red
12-21-2008, 08:40 PM
We do live in a somewhat sheltered life in Canada...and I am thankful for that. But many Canadians are fully aware of or have experienced the dark things that are happening in this world and it is for that reason that they find themselves here.

On this I'm pretty sure we all agree.

bhoybobby
12-21-2008, 08:54 PM
Ah the arrogance, like Scotland is the only place in the world where hate is found. :rolleyes:


No arrogance, I was talking about west of Scotland sectarianism

You seem like your in a combative mood, I'm not so......:drinking:

BlizzardBhoy
12-27-2008, 10:25 PM
For those that enjoyed the video - great find - here is an interesting link from the BBC based on a Billy McNeil interview

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/6682005.stm

Former Celtic manager Billy McNeill claims Maurice Johnston had signed a contract with Celtic before his infamous switch to Rangers in 1989. Speaking to BBC Scotland, McNeill said Johnston put pen to paper, but the Celtic board failed to pay Nantes the fee due for the controversial striker....

flatpicker
12-28-2008, 11:55 AM
speaking of Johnston... someone needs to post a picture of him on Wiki...
our Commander in Chief deserves to be recognised!

Beach_Red
12-28-2008, 12:41 PM
For those that enjoyed the video - great find - here is an interesting link from the BBC based on a Billy McNeil interview

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/6682005.stm

Former Celtic manager Billy McNeill claims Maurice Johnston had signed a contract with Celtic before his infamous switch to Rangers in 1989. Speaking to BBC Scotland, McNeill said Johnston put pen to paper, but the Celtic board failed to pay Nantes the fee due for the controversial striker....

I'm just curious, why did you put that in bold instead of, "Celtic board refused to pay Nantes the fee due..."

BlizzardBhoy
12-29-2008, 05:28 PM
Hey Beach Red.

I never put it in bold. No agenda here.
It was just a direct copy paste of the opening paragraph from the BBC article.

I was living in Glasgow at the time of the big Rangers signing. And it's true that Mo was dispised by many for supposedly betraying Celtic fans (hence Judas) and many Rangers fans were not pleased either, mainly because he was Catholic. The video just touches on some of the reactions of the RFC fans, but it went much, much deeper and darker, on both sides. BhoyBobby may be able to recall what it was like too.

Like many others, I have always felt that Mo's signing was perhaps the beginning of the slow, and unfortunately, still ongoing, dismantling of sectarianism in Scottish football. Kudos to all those invloved - especially Mo.

Beach_Red
12-29-2008, 06:00 PM
Cool. I was just curious. I don't really know anything about Scotland except what I've picked up in novels, mostly Ian Rankin and Christopher Brookmyre (and Alistair MacLean, can't forget him). Brookmyre probably has more references to the "Old Firm" than any of them, and helpfully for me, he put a glossary in a couple of the novels and on his website (where there's also a link to his team, St. Mirren).

druid
12-29-2008, 09:19 PM
Here's a pretty good summary of the story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article756139.ece

Basically, he was after more cash and reneged on a signed contract to get it. So the Jackie Robinson parallels are probably an insult to Jackie Robinson.

As to whether Mo regrets his decision... He hasn't been able to live in Glasgow since. It's well known that Mo's people called the local Celtic Supporters Clubs to enquire about Mo attending to watch Celtic games when he first arrived in Toronto. I think the friendliest reply he got was that he was welcome to come but the club couldn't guarantee Mo's safety. Mo asked to play in a Celtic vs Rangers legends match for charity and was turned down due to public outcry. Many aspects of Celtic FC culture and history show up in Toronto FC marketing. Every indication is that Mo still has a soft spot for Celtic and would very much like for everyone to forget about the whole saga.

As to the great change that this supposedly brought on, it wasn't all that effective or deep: it was only in 2006 that UEFA fined Rangers and listed one of their supporters anthems as a proscribed song for sectarian content, Ranger's players still aren't allowed to bless themselves, Ranger's players can't wear a crucifix, Celtic fans are still killed with alarming frequency after Rangers games, and just about everyone hates Mo.

Beach_Red
12-30-2008, 01:27 AM
Here's a pretty good summary of the story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article756139.ece

Basically, he was after more cash and reneged on a signed contract to get it. So the Jackie Robinson parallels are probably an insult to Jackie Robinson.

It's a good article, too. I guess for many people here this is a rehashing of old events, but it's new to me and interesting.

The story does say that, "To the fury of McNeill, who was holidaying in Florida, by the end of June the board had decided to pull out of the deal," before the fee was paid to the French team. Something had to break the contract, afterall, it is a legal document and you can't just "renege" if a better offer comes along - I have to sign contracts with publishers in my business and once they're signed, they're signed.

And I don't think Robinson would be insulted at all by an athlete trying to get more money. Robinson himself held out for more money a couple of times and in fact, in '46 he signed his contract directly with the Montreal Royals, not the Dodgers. After that season, when he was rookie of the year and led the Royals to the Little World Series, he held out the entire off season and almost didn't show up for spring training (which had to be moved to Cuba) until he got more money.

Of course, the situation was very different. Robinson was out to integrate baseball - which was his 3rd or 4th best sport (his best was probably football, but pro football wasn't taken very seriously in the 40's and was already integrated and he was a track star like his older brother Mack who is on the podium with Jesse Owens at the '36 Olympics in that famous picture where Hitler refuses to shake Owens' hand).

But Robinson was also very aware that he couldn't look like too much of a deal for the Dodgers. It couldn't look like he was being taken advantage of, or that he was doing the Dodgers a favour. He understood the business aspects of the sport just as much the "America's Pastime," aspect. He was a very smart guy and not too emotional (reasons he was the first in that "fishbowl") and sometimes frustrated that the other players didn't get too involved in the business end of things. He was also one of the few baseball players of the time who was college educated.

Robinson left baseball with probably a couple more years to play to take an executive job with Chock Full o' Nuts Coffeee company for more money.

They're different, for sure, but both fascinating.