An idea

[Flipityflu]

I was wondering if there has been any discusion with TFC management regarding having a lyric sheet sent out with the seasons ticket packages of the common songs/chants? i'm sure we can get together with the other groups and come up with some goods idea's that can be discussed with Paul.

[kodiakTFC]

maybe put them in programs?

[Flipityflu]

i don't know much control TFC has with regards to the programs. thats a MLS production i believe. it should be looked into at least.

i'm pretty sure TFC has full control of the packages though. to me it just looks like a good chance to reach as many people as possible.

[Derko]

That is a good idea, it would get everyone on the same page as far as chants and songs go

[Carts]

A song booklet would be a nice addition in the season seat package...

Keep it to the simple songs/chants, and only a few of them... If there's a lot of them, and it seems confusing to people - they'll disregard. If its simple and looks like easy fun, the common fan will/should jump aboard...

Good idea Flip...

Carts...

[Miko]

"Can You Hear Columbus Sing" is pretty simple.

Think they'll include that?

[Hitcho]

This is a great idea.

El Presidente?

mlsintoronto?


EDIT - my list of chants and songs to be included:

TFC, TOR, ONT, OOOOOOO
THIS IS OUR HOUSE
Dichio 23:13
TFC Massive
When The Reds Go Marching In
They Built The House On Lakeshore

That should be a good opening sample. We can increase the list as the chants and songs become better known. but I really like the idea of having a TFC branded booklet sent out with the season tickets. I think kids would really get into it then and join in more, as well as some adults. It would suck to be in a quieter section and want to join in, but not really know the words etc. This would solve that problem, at least to some extent.

[sulfur]

The one problem with that, that I've brought up before, is that the team will have to "vet" the songs because suddenly those songs become a reflection on the front office.

As such, the songs can't be offensive, they'll have to be acceptable to the front office, and we'll actually have to agree on the contents.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think they'd have to keep to the tamer, and hence less popular songs IMO.

[DOMIN8R]

Even so, it's a great idea.

[Stencils]

It's a good idea and, yeah, the songs would have to be the ones without swearing in them (or revised lyrics would have to be supplied for the ones that do have swearing).

Cost is always an issue for something like this. And quality. Someone has to design something up that's pretty as well as functional and then it has to be printed.

Also, if this is a season seat holder produced item, input from the other supporters groups would be not necessarily required but certainly preferable to just RPBs picking the songs.

Maybe this idea should be floated around to the other SG's as a group effort?

[Hitcho]

Definitely think there should be combined SG input.

Also think the list of songs will need to be "clean", but there are a core group of songs and chants that are fine for this purpose - see my list above as an example.

As for design etc, it shouldn't be a problem to find someone among the SGs to do this. Cost of printing is an issue perhaps, but if it's kept to a few pages only it won't be too much. Compared to the scarves they send out, it won't add muchy to the overall package cost. And the season ticket printers might offer to print the song sheets at a discount. Or more likely, the club will get a sponsor to put their name on it and cover the cost that way.

I think it's a good idea. We'll never get the whole stadium chanting abuse in unison, but we might finally get everyone on board with the Dichio song, the massive (imagine that being done east to west?!) and simple songs like when the reds go marching in. And that has to be a good thing, imho.

[mlsintoronto]

I think we'd be in...but yes it should come from the leadership of the SGs and yes it would have to be clean...

jack - over to you and your counterparts with the other groups. We'd need it by mid January in order to get it into the ticket package.

[AL-MO]

This is a great idea.

El Presidente?

mlsintoronto?


EDIT - my list of chants and songs to be included:

TFC, TOR, ONT, OOOOOOO
THIS IS OUR HOUSE
Dichio 23:13
TFC Massive
When The Reds Go Marching In
They Built The House On Lakeshore

That should be a good opening sample. We can increase the list as the chants and songs become better known. but I really like the idea of having a TFC branded booklet sent out with the season tickets. I think kids would really get into it then and join in more, as well as some adults. It would suck to be in a quieter section and want to join in, but not really know the words etc. This would solve that problem, at least to some extent.

Sorry, but there is no need to include this in any song list.

I will speak with Jack on this.

[Canadian Blue]

is not the 3rd straight season that this idea has been suggested?

[Flipityflu]

I think we'd be in...but yes it should come from the leadership of the SGs and yes it would have to be clean...

jack - over to you and your counterparts with the other groups. We'd need it by mid January in order to get it into the ticket package.


well ain't that cool :)

[Hitcho]

Sorry, but there is no need to include this in any song list.

I will speak with Jack on this.

Song stroke CHANT list is what it was, and while it seems dead simple to anyone in the south end who sings it every week, I know for a fact there are people in the east stand who don't really know what's being sung, because I've spoken to them. Now, bearing in mind this list would be aimed at exactly those people, and not seasoned chanters in supporter sections, I thought it was worth including. It's on the video demo the club page links you to in any event.

Still, just my opinion. El Presidente and the other El Presidentes can finalize things however they want if this goes ahead. :D

[Hitcho]

I think we'd be in...but yes it should come from the leadership of the SGs and yes it would have to be clean...

jack - over to you and your counterparts with the other groups. We'd need it by mid January in order to get it into the ticket package.

Paul - what's the scope for the club getting a simple TFC branded design in place, or do the SG's need to basically provide you with a finished product ready to go to print?

I guess the point is, are the club/league happy to let someone else create designs using proprietary logos etc, or do you just want a chant/song list to brand up yourself?

[AL-MO]

I imagine it would be....We provide the songs/chants they would design something to go out.

[blackandwhite]

Waste of effort...

[Sab0tage]

Sorry, but there is no need to include this in any song list.

I will speak with Jack on this. Thank you. That song annoys me to no end when people start singing it. It's the most redundant song ever.

[MrHawk]

A song sheet?

what are we a choir??????????

[Jeffro]

Thank you. That song annoys me to no end when people start singing it. It's the most redundant song ever.

Lets not be elitist. Sure the song is simple, and yes fools have sung it when we are losing games at home, but seriously, not everyone that goes to games spends their whole day, every day on this forum, and therefore, some of these simple chants are completely necessary.

Also, IMO, this is one of the most effective chants we have, everyone gets it going, supporters, casuals, kids, and it gets loud. Is that not the point in the first place, and not showing off your Footy IQ?

When the whole South Stand can sing multiple verses all together, and sing anthems and whatnot, we can talk about dropping these chants. Christ, last year we couldn't even get the Dichio24 together consistently.

Finally, I would have to say that the Supporters who hate that song, judging by the masses at every game who love singing it, are in a distinct minority on this one.

Having said all that, I definitely agree that it is way over used, and can;t be sung over and over every game (ditto When the reds go marching in) But it certainly has it's time and place. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves as to which songs are too basic for us. We're young and we're learning.

[Hitcho]

Lets not be elitist. Sure the song is simple, and yes fools have sung it when we are losing games at home, but seriously, not everyone that goes to games spends their whole day, every day on this forum, and therefore, some of these simple chants are completely necessary.

Also, IMO, this is one of the most effective chants we have, everyone gets it going, supporters, casuals, kids, and it gets loud. Is that not the point in the first place, and not showing off your Footy IQ?

When the whole South Stand can sing multiple verses all together, and sing anthems and whatnot, we can talk about dropping these chants. Christ, last year we couldn't even get the Dichio24 together consistently.

Finally, I would have to say that the Supporters who hate that song, judging by the masses at every game who love singing it, are in a distinct minority on this one.

Having said all that, I definitely agree that it is way over used, and can;t be sung over and over every game (ditto When the reds go marching in) But it certainly has it's time and place. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves as to which songs are too basic for us. We're young and we're learning.

:hump::hump::hump:

[James Oliphant]

TFC, TOR, ONT, OOOOOOO

Not another one....

IvVr2uks0C8

Way too many people thinking the TFC comes first...

[AL-MO]

Lets not be elitist. Sure the song is simple, and yes fools have sung it when we are losing games at home, but seriously, not everyone that goes to games spends their whole day, every day on this forum, and therefore, some of these simple chants are completely necessary.

Also, IMO, this is one of the most effective chants we have, everyone gets it going, supporters, casuals, kids, and it gets loud. Is that not the point in the first place, and not showing off your Footy IQ?

When the whole South Stand can sing multiple verses all together, and sing anthems and whatnot, we can talk about dropping these chants. Christ, last year we couldn't even get the Dichio24 together consistently.

Finally, I would have to say that the Supporters who hate that song, judging by the masses at every game who love singing it, are in a distinct minority on this one.

Having said all that, I definitely agree that it is way over used, and can;t be sung over and over every game (ditto When the reds go marching in) But it certainly has it's time and place. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves as to which songs are too basic for us. We're young and we're learning.

Timing and use of this chant aside, I said there was no need for it to be included, as it is rather basic. Its one line, and there is really nothing else to it.

If this was to be done, I think that space that TIOH would take up could better be used for something else.

[Hitcho]

Timing and use of this chant aside, I said there was no need for it to be included, as it is rather basic. Its one line, and there is really nothing else to it.

If this was to be done, I think that space that TIOH would take up could better be used for something else.

Yeah, think what you could do with that whole extra line of space!!

:D:D:D

Smart ass quips aside, I guess it depends on who we're aiming the booklet/sheet at. I know there are some SSHs who don't really know any words to any chants, no matter how basic or simple. On that basis, the simple ones should be included, but then again are these people really going to join in even if they finally discover the words? If we're aiming at more middle of the road SSHs who join in on simple stuff but need help pinning down the words to more complex chants and songs, then I agree the dead simple stuff is a waste, because it's already known. I'd say aim for the lowest common denominator because it;s better to have 16,000 people singing some chants than 4,000 people singing all of them, no?

One other thing - these things will need to be small enough to take to games, unless we think people will sit and memorise the words at home before coming to the games!

[stretchthetruth]

Not another one....



Way too many people thinking the TFC comes first...

yes... i won a bet about this... it was sweet.

[MrHawk]

If this idea comes to life (and it really shouldn't), and this song is included (which it really shouldn't), there should some disclaimers

[flatpicker]

I can certainly see how this might seem like a good idea.
But my concern is that there would then be too much focus on just a few songs and chants. And considering how weak I think some of our standard repertoire already is, I would rather we concentrate on improving our selection before telling thousands of others what songs they should be aware of. We the supporters still have much work to do in order to get really good. Once that happens... then we can share the wisdom we have obtained!

[David]

I can certainly see how this might seem like a good idea.
But my concern is that there would then be too much focus on just a few songs and chants. And considering how weak I think some of our standard repertoire already is, I would rather we concentrate on improving our selection before telling thousands of others what songs they should be aware of. We the supporters still have much work to do in order to get really good. Once that happens... then we can share the wisdom we have obtained!

Agreed. Bad idea. We are not a choir first of all, secondly this effort will double to the amount of douchebags who only care to know one or two chants religiously...This is our house and tor-ont...

[egoodwin]

Agreed. Bad idea. We are not a choir first of all, secondly this effort will double to the amount of douchebags who only care to know one or two chants religiously...This is our house and tor-ont...
or screaming "OH WHEN THE REDS"

[canadian_bhoy]

The vid below is a joke - but Rangers have produced something like this for fans in the past (they hand it out at the match though rather than putting it in season books)

oYAPdcSWQoA

[Flipityflu]

to those who have 'choir' concerns, or just dismiss the idea out of hand, maybe you can post some of your idea's to propogate singing. we've been doing this for two seasons, and haven't improved that much. anybody can sing oh when the reds, or this is our house, because they know they lyrics. unless of course you enjoy hearing fernando torres chants because nobody has bothered pushing the actually TFC versions of a song...

[Hitcho]

I can certainly see how this might seem like a good idea.
But my concern is that there would then be too much focus on just a few songs and chants. And considering how weak I think some of our standard repertoire already is, I would rather we concentrate on improving our selection before telling thousands of others what songs they should be aware of. We the supporters still have much work to do in order to get really good. Once that happens... then we can share the wisdom we have obtained!

For once we disagree Flat Picker Man! By that rationale, you're waiting for an exclusive minority of fans to obtain some sort of promised land status of chanting and singing, perfecting some advanced and difficult numbers, and only then allowing or encouraging the masses to be a part of it, which they probably won't be able to manage.

BMO Field is not the kind of stadium where the whole place ever chants in unison - hell we can't even manage the south end together despite repeated efforts at it - so even if non supporter sections are churning out chants that people in 112 or elsewhere are sick of, the chances are they won't be heard in that section anyway, and people will do their own thing even if they can be heard.

And if that's the case, then surely it's better to have all sections of the stadium chanting and singing in some way, shape or form than what we have now, which is a few sections singing stuff that no-one else can join in with? I just don't see how that's better.

If there's to be any hope at all of ever getting 20,000 TFC fans in unison, then we have to get the masses started on the easy stuff, which they are currently not really doing much. Meantime, supporter sections can develop their repertoire and get the masses to work on that satuff later. We can't go from a standstill to Olympic 100m pace in terms of getting everyone stadium-wide up to the kind of standard you're aiming at. It has to be done gradually.

Just my 20c...

[EastYork]

For once we disagree Flat Picker Man! By that rationale, you're waiting for an exclusive minority of fans to obtain some sort of promised land status of chanting and singing, perfecting some advanced and difficult numbers, and only then allowing or encouraging the masses to be a part of it, which they probably won't be able to manage.

BMO Field is not the kind of stadium where the whole place ever chants in unison - hell we can't even manage the south end together despite repeated efforts at it - so even if non supporter sections are churning out chants that people in 112 or elsewhere are sick of, the chances are they won't be heard in that section anyway, and people will do their own thing even if they can be heard.

And if that's the case, then surely it's better to have all sections of the stadium chanting and singing in some way, shape or form than what we have now, which is a few sections singing stuff that no-one else can join in with? I just don't see how that's better.

If there's to be any hope at all of ever getting 20,000 TFC fans in unison, then we have to get the masses started on the easy stuff, which they are currently not really doing much. Meantime, supporter sections can develop their repertoire and get the masses to work on that satuff later. We can't go from a standstill to Olympic 100m pace in terms of getting everyone stadium-wide up to the kind of standard you're aiming at. It has to be done gradually.

Just my 20c...
20 cents? You must be a high roller!

[flatpicker]

^^

I think you misunderstand me...

I wasn't saying we needed bigger, better and more complex songs before making song sheets.
I am all for "simple"... and "simple" is what will get lot's of voices shouting together.
All I am saying is the simple songs and chants we have right now kinda suck.
I want us to put our thinking caps on and come up with a few more easy/catchy numbers that we can spread to all sections.

[FluSH]

Sorry, but there is no need to include this in any song list.

I will speak with Jack on this.


That's my favourite JAM!

[alexintoronto]

I think reaching out to everyone in the stadium is a good thing. I hear a lot of people saying they're stuck in a quiet section and wish they could be louder.

I don't think this is the best way to reach out to them though. I won't say it's selling out, and it's not as bad as putting words up on the big screen. Who knows what kind of control they would want over which songs are included or what the lyrics could be.

Then to cover the cost of printing will it end up being "The Official Supporter's Songbook brought to you by Bud Light"

[Sid]

i have an idea for a banner to go over the supporters Section like if we are winning and all the banner Says Why so serious????? then exp the crew or NYRBulls red banner and black letters and i know ppl may have i promble with this i think it would be great

[Flipityflu]

well, if this isn't the best, which way is?

its one thing to come up with good reasons why this wouldn't work, but the least people could do is come up with idea's on what will work. the fact is, an idea was brought to the table that the TFC Dircector of Business Operations has expressed interest in. run with it. in the end, its not going to do any harm is it?

[flatpicker]

I'm not saying it would harm us...
But what songs/chants are we wanting people to join in on?
"TFC clap clap clap"? "T-O-R...O-N-T..."? "Come on you Reds"?

Perhaps I am being naive... but do songs like those really need to be printed up for people?
You telling me that people haven't figured those ones out by now?
If they aren't singing, it's probably because they are too uncomfortable to do so, not because they don't know the words.
But I could be wrong... Lord knows I've been wrong about a lot of things before!

[alexintoronto]

well, if this isn't the best, which way is?



Moving people who want to support into the supporters sections.

I'm not trying to slam your idea - I think it was a good idea for the right reasons - I just think there may be some other things to take into consideration. The Voyageurs Cup and the Supporter's Tournaments were both sponsored. If lyrics are given to TFC, do they become TFC owned? Can they then put a sponsor's name on it?

Maybe I'm just paranoid :drinking:

[Pookie]

The one problem with that, that I've brought up before, is that the team will have to "vet" the songs because suddenly those songs become a reflection on the front office.

As such, the songs can't be offensive, they'll have to be acceptable to the front office, and we'll actually have to agree on the contents.


Do they?

Because they already have audio and video links to common chants on their website. (though a little outdated as they don't include some of the newer ones).

http://ww2.mlsnet.com/t280/fans/gameday/ (scroll down to chants)

I'd just recommend updating the files with newer chants and sending it out as an email link. Saves paper and could be replayed over and over.

[alexintoronto]

http://www.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/ads/2007/468x60/unico.gif

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

alexintoronto: I'm sure there probably will be sponsors in this lyric book, but TFC can't copyright songs they didn't write. And they know we'd throw a fit. As for sponsors, who cares anyway? MLSE use the argument that we don't make enough money to justify ground improvements and a DP, etc... Every little bit helps. Everyone knows who made up these songs, because the supporters have been singing them since day one.

This is a great idea, we should definitely go ahead with it. Having a book with the lyrics in it should encourage more people to join in. And this is just a general statement, the reason not a lot gets done here these days is because there's always people who oppose ideas because of personal opinion. Lyrics book probably = more people singing = better support throughout the stadium and not only in two sections in the southeast corner. And there's nothing bad about that. Most European clubs have songbooks either distributed by supporters groups or the club itself, I've been thinking we should do this for a while.

[James Oliphant]

i have an idea for a banner to go over the supporters Section like if we are winning and all the banner Says Why so serious????? then exp the crew or NYRBulls red banner and black letters and i know ppl may have i promble with this i think it would be great

Tim90?

[AL-MO]

alexintoronto: I'm sure there probably will be sponsors in this lyric book, but TFC can't copyright songs they didn't write. And they know we'd throw a fit. As for sponsors, who cares anyway? MLSE use the argument that we don't make enough money to justify ground improvements and a DP, etc... Every little bit helps. Everyone knows who made up these songs, because the supporters have been singing them since day one.

This is a great idea, we should definitely go ahead with it. Having a book with the lyrics in it should encourage more people to join in. And this is just a general statement, the reason not a lot gets done here these days is because there's always people who oppose ideas because of personal opinion. Lyrics book probably = more people singing = better support throughout the stadium and not only in two sections in the southeast corner. And there's nothing bad about that. Most European clubs have songbooks either distributed by supporters groups or the club itself, I've been thinking we should do this for a while.

I would totally be against anything that had a sponsor's logo on it. Most SG's would be against it too.

[Hitcho]

^^

I think you misunderstand me...

I wasn't saying we needed bigger, better and more complex songs before making song sheets.
I am all for "simple"... and "simple" is what will get lot's of voices shouting together.
All I am saying is the simple songs and chants we have right now kinda suck.
I want us to put our thinking caps on and come up with a few more easy/catchy numbers that we can spread to all sections.

Deepest apologies, Man Who Picks Flats. I did indeed misunderstand you, and now we're back on common ground again :D. We don't want to be circulating crap, totally agree, although every stadium in the world has its share of crap chants in fairness. Still, if we've not come up with some decent simple efforts after two full seasons, will we ever?! :noidea:

[Hitcho]

The club or sponsors claiming any kind of ownership of the songs/chants we come up with is a dead issue. Copyright vests on creation by the author(s), and for general worldwide footie songs, chants and tunes they've all been lost in the mists of times (very little, if anything, of what we've come up with at TFC is genuinely original, it's all borrowed and re-hashed to some degree). It's just not an issue. And even if it was, whcih sponsor is honestly going to want the bad press of actively trying to sue/stop fans from using certain supporter chants?! How to lose sales and alienate yourself...

I don't like the idea of a sponsor's name on whatever gets produced (if anything does, because it's not sounding likely judging by this thread!) but it can be avoided by having SGs do all the design work and leaving the club with nothing more than printing costs to cover, which can probably be roped into the season ticket printing costs anyway by using the same company. In fact, the SGs could give it to the club on the express stipulation that no sponsor's name is to be added to it (other than the TFC name and logo of course). Problem solved.

[Flipityflu]

who said anything about sponsors?

why don't we try talking with everybody before we make up our minds regarding how TFC will negotiate on this. i think Paul has been around here enough to know how we feel about commercialization of the groups.

lets just get the ball moving as we have limited time to set this up.

[David]

who said anything about sponsors?

why don't we try talking with everybody before we make up our minds regarding how TFC will negotiate on this. i think Paul has been around here enough to know how we feel about commercialization of the groups.

lets just get the ball moving as we have limited time to set this up.

Or we stop the ball and move on to something else. This is a bad idea. There are enough casuals who walk in, belt out this is our house, oh when the reds, and tor-ont like there is no tomorrow. Does anyone really care for those chants much? Especially to hear them all game? Because that's exactly what this sort of thing will encourage. All the chants that can be put on that sheet of paper are the short, simple, not so great chants. This is our house, is the equivalent to Go leafs go in my opinion, do you really think that gets the players motivated and going? I don't think so.

I don't think management should be involved in support at all. It's just another thing for them to end up marketing.

[Flipityflu]

lol, and all the other idea's here have done so well.

fine, give up., i couldn't care less. all i know is that for a supporters group, there seem to be alot of those who only care if a small minority actual do the supporting. if you took a second to be honest, you would realize that you aren't propagating anything. we get a chancew to reach out to a larger group, and you worry about sponsorship or chants you don't like.

you come up with a way to get actual songs then. personally, i'm not really sure why i continue to come back here. i thought it was to be with those who had a little bit of imagination to get something special started, but i don't think thats true.

have fun. i know i will, and i think it will be without the supporters groups from now on.

[flatpicker]

^ take it easy dude... we're all just talking here... that's how we reach decisions about things... talk it out...

[David]

lol, and all the other idea's here have done so well.

fine, give up., i couldn't care less. all i know is that for a supporters group, there seem to be alot of those who only care if a small minority actual do the supporting. if you took a second to be honest, you would realize that you aren't propagating anything. we get a chancew to reach out to a larger group, and you worry about sponsorship or chants you don't like.

you come up with a way to get actual songs then. personally, i'm not really sure why i continue to come back here. i thought it was to be with those who had a little bit of imagination to get something special started, but i don't think thats true.

have fun. i know i will, and i think it will be without the supporters groups from now on.

Your trying to downplay this way too much. Our hard work has already been spun around and used as marketing tools which don't honestly reflect the way us supporters think, if our ideas keep getting used to make them money while making us look like idiots then who could agree with making such a decision?

Sounds like everyone's better off without you, seeing how you give up on everything so easily. It was just a discussion but i must say it is fun laughing at your whining.

[David]

The club or sponsors claiming any kind of ownership of the songs/chants we come up with is a dead issue. Copyright vests on creation by the author(s), and for general worldwide footie songs, chants and tunes they've all been lost in the mists of times (very little, if anything, of what we've come up with at TFC is genuinely original, it's all borrowed and re-hashed to some degree). It's just not an issue. And even if it was, whcih sponsor is honestly going to want the bad press of actively trying to sue/stop fans from using certain supporter chants?! How to lose sales and alienate yourself...

I don't like the idea of a sponsor's name on whatever gets produced (if anything does, because it's not sounding likely judging by this thread!) but it can be avoided by having SGs do all the design work and leaving the club with nothing more than printing costs to cover, which can probably be roped into the season ticket printing costs anyway by using the same company. In fact, the SGs could give it to the club on the express stipulation that no sponsor's name is to be added to it (other than the TFC name and logo of course). Problem solved.

This would solve that problem, but what happens with the whole choir worries?

Anyways, if we take a step back and actually think about this, it wouldn't have an effect at all. It's the same thing as leaving song sheets on chairs before the game, almost all of them end up on the floor not used, and completely ignored. One sheet at the beginning of the season is going to help? The only argument against this that i can think of would be that becuase it's coming in the package more people will take it seriously, but going back to your point, if it's sitll coming from the supporters and clearly only from the supporters then people would still have the same reaction. "cool" and then leave it at home, forget about it, throw it out.

The people who haven't found the supporters groups out by now aren't interested in joining us by coming prepared to the games with knowledge other then they already have about the chants. They come for the atmosphere not to create it. If there are stragglers out there, or people who experience TFC the way that we all have in the future then they will find us, it's really not that hard to do.

[mlsintoronto]

MLSE use the argument that we don't make enough money to justify ground improvements and a DP, etc...

we do? no we don't. :)

[Hitcho]

This would solve that problem, but what happens with the whole choir worries?

Anyways, if we take a step back and actually think about this, it wouldn't have an effect at all. It's the same thing as leaving song sheets on chairs before the game, almost all of them end up on the floor not used, and completely ignored. One sheet at the beginning of the season is going to help? The only argument against this that i can think of would be that becuase it's coming in the package more people will take it seriously, but going back to your point, if it's sitll coming from the supporters and clearly only from the supporters then people would still have the same reaction. "cool" and then leave it at home, forget about it, throw it out.

The people who haven't found the supporters groups out by now aren't interested in joining us by coming prepared to the games with knowledge other then they already have about the chants. They come for the atmosphere not to create it. If there are stragglers out there, or people who experience TFC the way that we all have in the future then they will find us, it's really not that hard to do.

Hmmm, you may have swung me around to the other side on this.

Another issue of course is that in non-supporter sections people cannot stand all game. I always stand all game, every game, and it definitely makes it easier to get up for the chanting etc. If you're A) sat down and B) in a quiet section, are you really likely to start joining in with chants? Probably not.

Somone above posted about letting the relocation cycle take care of this over time, and I think that's probably the answer in fairness. If/when expansion occurs, hopefully the SGs will be in contact with the club about where to situate the new supporter sections, and then we have to hope those who want to cheer and sing can find a way to get in there.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

David- I apologize if I've misread your intentions, but it sounds like you're under the impression that if you're not a member of a group, you're not allowed to support. That isn't the case. The idea here is to support a team, not to feel like some exclusive club that's morally superior to everyone else in the stadium.

Also, do you think everyone at Anfield or Old Trafford knows the words to every player chant? No, they sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone', 'Glory, Glory Man United, 'Take me home United Road', etc. What on earth is wrong with singing team songs? I agree that This Is Our House should be thrown out the window, but on grounds of suckiness, not because everyone knows it. :rolleyes:

Step off your high horse, there's nothing wrong with trying to involve more people, even the 'un-initiated', in supporting the team.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

maybe put them in programs?


thats what i have been asking for for the past 2 seasons, match programs, every football club has thier own and TFC should get one
as well...have the game sheets from the MLS site is just cheap.

[David]

David- I apologize if I've misread your intentions, but it sounds like you're under the impression that if you're not a member of a group, you're not allowed to support. That isn't the case. The idea here is to support a team, not to feel like some exclusive club that's morally superior to everyone else in the stadium.

Also, do you think everyone at Anfield or Old Trafford knows the words to every player chant? No, they sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone', 'Glory, Glory Man United, 'Take me home United Road', etc. What on earth is wrong with singing team songs? I agree that This Is Our House should be thrown out the window, but on grounds of suckiness, not because everyone knows it. :rolleyes:

Step off your high horse, there's nothing wrong with trying to involve more people, even the 'un-initiated', in supporting the team.

Apology accepted. I am under no such impression, however when it comes to organized support i DO believe that being a member of a supporters group definitely puts you leaps and bounds ahead of any casual in the stadium, if that means anything to you.

I am on no such high horse but thanks for coming out. Again take a step back, this sheet won't do anything. The simple chants that can be included in this sheet are already known by the new season seat holders last year by the time the second half reached of their first game and this is how it'll be this year for the people who are just coming in. The casuals who come out for a game or two, already know or will know these chants-again- by the second half of the game. This sheet is pointless, complete and utter waste of time and effort. If they want to sing, they will sing they have enough oppurtunities on gameday to pick up the chants, either outside pre game, inside during game, or outside post match.

And for the record, i don't care about Anfield, or Old Trafford and i'm completely sick with the apparent obsession that some people have of realating everything support orientated back to the EPL. There are much better stadiums and SG's to look up to in regards to support direction then the grounds of the EPL.

[Hitcho]

Apology accepted. I am under no such impression, however when it comes to organized support i DO believe that being a member of a supporters group definitely puts you leaps and bounds ahead of any casual in the stadium, if that means anything to you.

I am on no such high horse but thanks for coming out. Again take a step back, this sheet won't do anything. The simple chants that can be included in this sheet are already known by the new season seat holders last year by the time the second half reached of their first game and this is how it'll be this year for the people who are just coming in. The casuals who come out for a game or two, already know or will know these chants-again- by the second half of the game. This sheet is pointless, complete and utter waste of time and effort. If they want to sing, they will sing they have enough oppurtunities on gameday to pick up the chants, either outside pre game, inside during game, or outside post match.

And for the record, i don't care about Anfield, or Old Trafford and i'm completely sick with the apparent obsession that some people have of realating everything support orientated back to the EPL. There are much better stadiums and SG's to look up to in regards to support direction then the grounds of the EPL.

For the dead simple chants (our house, tor-ont, etc) I'd agree with you. But the real issue here is where do you draw the line? I sit in 118 in the south end, and I'm pretty confident that at least 85% of the people in that section wouldn't have a clue what the words are to The House On Lakeshore. Many of them don't even know Oh When The Reds Go Marching In and there are plenty of people who put too many Danny's in the Dichio song.

So the question becomes, if there are supporter sections that don't even know songs and chants which fall into the well-known and fairly easy bracket as opposed to the stupidly simple and irritating bracket, then putting out something with the season tickets would at least (hopefully) fill in the blanks among the supporter sections on the simpler chants, and it may add a whole bunch of people to the list of those who join in outside of the SS.

So, take off our house and tor-ont etc, and can you still really say this is a bad idea? I'm undecided because I think there are valid arguments in favour and against. Although ultimately even if people decide to ignore what's sent out or just won't join in come hell or high water, what have we really lost? Whereas we migth see a significant gain in terms of supporters' voices for level 2 chants and songs (assuming the level 1 dross is left off).

[flatpicker]

^ what is "The House on Lakeshore"?

[Hitcho]

^ what is "The House on Lakeshore"?

they built the house on lakeshore for the reds, the reds
(etc)

to the tune of when jonny comes marching home

[flatpicker]

^ oh yeah... that one... I still the prefer the earlier version of that song that someone suggested... but it's ok too...

[Hitcho]

^ i've only heard the one version. And, more worryingly, I have never, ever heard it while sitting in 118 at the west end of the south stand. i've not even heard strains of it drifting across the stadium. i learned it outside of BMO Field, which says a lot about how useful the original idea of this thread could be, including in the SS.

[flatpicker]

^ let's face it... without a roof, most people will never know what song is being sung in the bunker anyways.
Even if they learn the song on their own, it's impossible to hear the Bunker in other parts of the South end.

[Hitcho]

^ agreed, but isn't that the point though? ie, that if all SSH in the south end (and toher areas) get the same song sheet, then when 112 (for example) starts off a song/chant, it can spread round section by section (in theory at least) until it hits 118? but if no-one knows the words, then there's no hope of that ever happening.

I'm not saying a son sheet with the season tickets will make it happen, but it might help. Plant a seed, let it grow into a tree. or something.

[flatpicker]

^ problem is, by the time the song reach from one end of the south to the other... the bunker has moved on to something else.

[Hitcho]

^ sure, but then if we ever want to have a unified south end, the bunker will just have to slow down or repeat chants and songs more times in a row to let them take off. that's nothing to do with song sheets etc, that's just a basic problem for fans in a stadium which holds 20,000 people. We have to coordinate.

The bunker should have been positioned in the middle of the south end if they wanted to control the pace of all the chants and songs!

*ducks head down to avoid sniper fire*