O'Brian White should TFC take the chance?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Shoukl TFC take O'Brian White with their first pick in the superdraft knowing that he will be out injured until July? With the 2nd and later 4th and 13 th picks, TFC should gamble and select the young Canadian first
and still have another good player availabe at the 4th pick?

[BuSaPuNk]

I would think that Mo is probably going to wait and see how the draft works out. White will fall in this draft that is for sure, but how far is the question. I think the best thing to do is use our 4th pick only if he hears interest from other teams taking him. If not if he falls in our laps with the 13th pick then we should pick him up then.

[ThunderTundra]

I think its important to pick up talented Canadians while we can, before they are picked up by US teams or international sides and locked up for their careers. The injury will be a negative, but if they get him training and ready for the mid summer push, we can really use domestic talent in a nearly dry pool of it

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I would think that Mo is probably going to wait and see how the draft works out. White will fall in this draft that is for sure, but how far is the question. I think the best thing to do is use our 4th pick only if he hears interest from other teams taking him. If not if he falls in our laps with the 13th pick then we should pick him up then.


dont think he will be around by the 4th pick...some team will take a chance on him, and hope that team is TFC.

[JDG]

ACL injury & Turf? That's going to cause problems. If Mo grabs him, he'll likely have to flip him for someone else as soon as he gets him.

[BuSaPuNk]

dont think he will be around by the 4th pick...some team will take a chance on him, and hope that team is TFC.

You would be surprised ACL injuries are one of those nagging repetitive injurys. Either way I think it would be too big of a gamble to waste a pick.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

wait and see, as well as see which other canadians are available. Gotta say that the fact that hes injured (albeit only for in and around 6 months, which should bring us to the start of the season) and had a less than successful season does throw some doubt into the matter. I said no for now, simply because it does look like we might be able to grab him with a later pick. Honestly i dont feel i know enough about the available players

[Flipityflu]

i say trade the pick. hey mighty, this is actually a pretty good poll :)

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

i say trade the pick. hey mighty, this is actually a pretty good poll :)


trade the pick? for DeRO? that might be worth a shot, but i would still rather get good young Canadians while we have the chance.

[Damien]

"No" & "Too Risky" = Same... why are they separate options?

[Lucky Strike]

Actually, we don't have our 4th round pick, we gave it to LA for Ruiz. I'm not sure about our 3rd pick (I think we may traded that in the Guevara deal) but if we have it, we should use that for White. I'd even go as far to say that a 2nd round pick for White wouldn't be insane. Unless there's an obvious better choice, of course, but by the second round, I don't think that'll be the case.

[Nuvinho]

I think that we'll take 1 of our top 2 picks (either 2nd or 4th) to take a GA player. The other pick we may trade to get a MLS CB (ie. San Jose and Garcia). With the 13th pick we could probably trade down to the 2nd round and then maybe now you take a chance on OW.

[DigzTFC!]

I would take a 2nd round pick on O'Brian White. I think it would be crazy not to. Nothing generally comes out of recent second round draft picks except the odd anomaly (Altidore). If White is out a year....that's fine. Dichio will be retired and most likely there will be grass at BMO by then.

We should pick up one player in the first round and use the rest of the picks as trade bait. 3rd round, if we have it, should be a Ricketts or Revivo or Hall selection. Imagine being able to trade a Marshall and a first for Serioux or Guevara and a 1st for DeRosario.

Core strikers: O'Brian White, Ibbe, Barrett, Revivo?, DP going forward.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

is Revivo any good?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

also im still uncertain about whether or not Toussaint is going to be in the draft

[DigzTFC!]

is Revivo any good?

Being the 5th forward on a team...I think he should be good enough to trial for that. Plus, Dichio will be around for next year, so technically if we draft White he would be the 6th when White's healthy.

Also, I'm not sure on Ricketts either. The fact that he has a better chance for a senior contract now might be enough incentive to enter in the MLS draft.

[Cambridge_Red]

I would be willing to risk it. Teams usually only get one or two maximum players of any quality in these drafts anyways. Either that or trade the pick for a quality defender.

[Nodoubtguy]

I don't see him being around at #13, so I'd be willing to use our #4 pick on him. We should be able to secure a decent pick at 2, and then take a chance on a Canadian kid with 4.....sounds good to me.

[RedRum]

Contrary to what most seem to think, I doubt the injury will cause him to go much lower in the draft, if at all.

He probably wasn't going to be a starter anyway come March, so in the scheme of things the injury is irrelevant.

[TFC HSV]

I thought LA got 2 supplemental draft picks from us. Didnt know we gave them a 4th rounder as well.

[Nuvinho]

I thought LA got 2 supplemental draft picks from us. Didnt know we gave them a 4th rounder as well.

It was for Harmse.

[arsenal]

Smaller roster sizes, possibly takes up an int'l player slot for US teams, less than impressive season prior to injury, non-Gen Adidas, other quality forwards available in the draft, can't work out at combine, uncertainty as to speed when he returns = 2nd round pick at best

[rocker]

and he soon turns 23.
so his first full season in the big leagues will be when he's 24 years old.
i wouldn't call that a "prospect".

if they wanna grab his rights later in the draft, then fine. they don't have to offer up a deal to him. just let him rehab and not take up a roster spot. but I wouldn't use any of those first round picks on the guy now.

[TFC HSV]

It was for Harmse.

I knew about that deal. I was referring to the ruiz deal.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I don't see him being around at #13, so I'd be willing to use our #4 pick on him. We should be able to secure a decent pick at 2, and then take a chance on a Canadian kid with 4.....sounds good to me.

Unless Mo can make a deal that would be impossible to turn down,

use the No 2 pick, and then take O Biran White at 4.:canada:

[jloome]

I've been watching some of the playoffs on Fox and have to say the quality of U.S college soccer is so low relative to MLS as a whole that I wouldn't peg success there as any greater marker of professional capacity. Ask Xavier Balc. It's still about the physical tools, which he has.

But as noted, he's 24. This isn't Jozy Altidore growing into a massive player, it's a guy who is by all expert standards only two or three years off his prime....and he's going to be a rookie who's here to learn? Waste of time, money and a pick.

The kids coming out of college that are valuable are the ones who can role-play right away.

[Oblio2]

I was just about to say, pick him. We need quailty Canuckles and, so what if he';s injured....he can learn and rehab here. He doesn't need to step in straight away and that if we let him slide to pick up later, another team will take him just so we dont.
However, I just saw he's 24!
24 Already......Really, a 24 year old should be on fire about now...this is their time. If he's not lighting it up, fuck it and lets go younger

[J .]

no there are other guys, younger and healthy we could take. Not sure if I would have taken him in with either of our first two picks.

[Nuvinho]

I like White, love the fact he won't count as an international......but when building your team, you have to look at the best available player.....for forward, I'd take Marcus Tracy ahead of OW right now. I really think that OW will fall in the draft, similiar to last year......who was the top rated defender in the draft and was supposd to go #1 or #2??? James, the reason why he fell was because of the GA players and being international.......now with OW's injury, that just moves him further down the draft chart.

[Flipityflu]

i'm surprised more people don't think its worth it to trade draft pick(s) to get an experienced CB. i wouldn't put it past Mo either.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Not with our 1st pick. No way.

[VPjr]

do any of you who voted to draft O'Brien White actually watch NCAA soccer? The level of play is not that high. That's not to say that there are not good soccer players in NCAA because there clearly are some good soccer players at the collegiate level but I would rather see TFC pluck 3 of the top 10 players in CSL (if it were possible) rather than take 3 college players.

Back to O'Brien White...lets get a few things straight about this guy

First, he's not Canadian, he's Jamaican. He won't ever represent Canada. He spent a few formative years in Scarborough...that's it. It's nice that he wouldn't count as an international but let's stop calling him Canadian.

2nd...he is not a game changer and, even if healthy, would not be a starter in this league anytime soon.

3rd, as quite rightly stated, he's 23 years old. he probably won't play his first meaningful match in MLS until he's 24 or even 25 (depending on how rehab goes...it doesn't always go perfectly).

If he was around with their 3rd round pick, then I'd take a shot at him. His 2009 season is done....he won't even be back training at full speed until late summer (August is likely).

My preference is for TFC to take the best Generation Adidas player available at #2 or #4 and package the other 2 first round picks for the best players they can possibly get (or a combo of player and lots of allocation money). We need players ready to play next season. NCAA players that can step in and have an impact are very few and far between.

[VPjr]

is Revivo any good?

yes, he's a nice player but still a work in progress. he wouldn't be someone to expect much from in year 1 (or maybe year 2).

The problem with college players, especially seniors, is that they are OLD (in soccer years) and they've picked up so many bad habits playing youth and college soccer that by the time they get to the pros, it is tough to really fully realize the talent these players have in them.

Its why I am so vehemently against top Canadian players going to school in the US. I would rather see our best players get out of youth soccer as soon as possible (16 or 17), get involved with a CSL club, work their way up through the Reserves to the senior team and play against men. If they want to go to school, go to a Canadian university (there are some limited scholarship opportunities for athletes now).

I look forward to the day when the USSF Development Academies expand their programs to include senior level soccer and take over as the top rung of player development in the US. NCAA is not going to cut it for much longer. MLS is propping up the NCAA for some reason by continuing to do their silly draft. The MLS needs to cut the ties with NCAA and encourage expedite the full integration of a more soccer specific development model
for their clubs.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

curious to see if any of the CSL rumors (well one in particular) are true.
youd think theyd at least trial some of the top goalscorers etc

[Lucky Strike]

yes, he's a nice player but still a work in progress. he wouldn't be someone to expect much from in year 1 (or maybe year 2).

The problem with college players, especially seniors, is that they are OLD (in soccer years) and they've picked up so many bad habits playing youth and college soccer that by the time they get to the pros, it is tough to really fully realize the talent these players have in them.

Its why I am so vehemently against top Canadian players going to school in the US. I would rather see our best players get out of youth soccer as soon as possible (16 or 17), get involved with a CSL club, work their way up through the Reserves to the senior team and play against men. If they want to go to school, go to a Canadian university (there are some limited scholarship opportunities for athletes now).

I look forward to the day when the USSF Development Academies expand their programs to include senior level soccer and take over as the top rung of player development in the US. NCAA is not going to cut it for much longer. MLS is propping up the NCAA for some reason by continuing to do their silly draft. The MLS needs to cut the ties with NCAA and encourage expedite the full integration of a more soccer specific development model
for their clubs.

Ideally, I'd like to see the draft at 2 rounds max, MAYBE 3. At the very minimum, get rid of the supplemental draft completely. I mean 4 rounds of superdraft followed by 4 round of supplemental drafts? Why didn't they just make it an 8 round draft? But that's not the point: shorter draft so you can get the rarer gems from NCAA but no further. Take what we want and no garbage.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i suspect part of the removing of developmental slots was to make the draft less important and to force teams to rely on scouting and development. The development bit gets fucked tho as they can only sign one player, ridiculous

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i would have initially been particularly upset if we didnt sign Obrien White but having heard about the NCAA (ie how the game is played opposed to how its played everywhere else in the bloody world) as well as the injury coupled by his soso year, I have to say im not as high on the guy as i was

[Nuvinho]

mlsdraft.net reports that Steve Zakuni could come out this year. He could be a potential TFC pick.

http://www.mlsdraft.net/?q=node/114

[Captain Croatia]

Off topic, but we have the 2nd overall pick with Seattle at #1?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

correct, we have number 2 and number 4 in the first 10

[Nuvinho]

Off topic, but we have the 2nd overall pick with Seattle at #1?

that is correct we have #2 (from SJ) and #4 (our pick).

[Jamaicanadian]

yes, he's a nice player but still a work in progress. he wouldn't be someone to expect much from in year 1 (or maybe year 2).

The problem with college players, especially seniors, is that they are OLD (in soccer years) and they've picked up so many bad habits playing youth and college soccer that by the time they get to the pros, it is tough to really fully realize the talent these players have in them.

Its why I am so vehemently against top Canadian players going to school in the US. I would rather see our best players get out of youth soccer as soon as possible (16 or 17), get involved with a CSL club, work their way up through the Reserves to the senior team and play against men. If they want to go to school, go to a Canadian university (there are some limited scholarship opportunities for athletes now).

I look forward to the day when the USSF Development Academies expand their programs to include senior level soccer and take over as the top rung of player development in the US. NCAA is not going to cut it for much longer. MLS is propping up the NCAA for some reason by continuing to do their silly draft. The MLS needs to cut the ties with NCAA and encourage expedite the full integration of a more soccer specific development model
for their clubs.

Below is the the opposite POV to the NCAA being unsuitable (in terms of football development) sentiment outlined above!!


While the NBA and the NFL (and to a lesser degree baseball and hockey) rely on colleges to provide an endless supply of new players, the prevailing wisdom is that NCAA soccer is an unsuitable learning environment for aspiring professionals. In many ways, it's a bum rap.The full article--> http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=600730&sec=ncaa&root=ncaa&cc=5901

[Beach_Red]

^ That's a good article. In addition to developing players for the pros, a good college program in the US will develop interest. Exactly what happened to basketball and why, I think, it skyrocketed past hockey in the 80's. The same will happen with soccer, the college level is very important.

[rocker]

I don't see how VpJr's comments and that article are at odds with one another.
They are talking across different points and making different arguments.

Just because players who have succeeded in MLS came through college doesn't not mean college made them what they are, or that they reached their highest potential through playing in college.

I think college has done a decent job populating MLS with players who are decent enough to play in MLS. It's like a farm system that doesn't cost MLS a cent. It provides the grunt workers in the league, and occasionally a good player. But the ones who played college and left were probably good enough to have succeeded in other systems than college.

But expecting a 4-year college player (White) at age 23 to turn out to be great is unlikely.
If you want to draft a 4 year college player to fill a backup role, great.

[Jamaicanadian]

Rocker: White is not unique...I would argue that any pick in this draft is essentially a risk and all MLS teams gamble based on their current needs.

I would make this statement....Expecting any player drafted to turn out to be great is unlikely.

Do a search for any of the #1 draft picks in the MLS and tell me how many turned out to be great <---However you define that.

As far as Vpjr's sentiments vs the article. I see them as clearly opposing view points.

VPjr: The MLS needs to cut the ties with NCAA and encourage expedite the full integration of a more soccer specific development model
for their clubs.

Doug McIntyre: College is an important pipeline to the pros.

[Beach_Red]

Well, given that any development program is going to turn 1 out of 100 (or 1000) into decently-paid professionals, almost every American-raised kid is going to chose college over anything else. Even the flawed NCAA system does give a lot of kids some education and some contacts for decent jobs.

I think MLS is on the right track developing players through the NCAA - it's early years yet, but there's no reason they won't turn out some of the best soccer players in the world like they do some of the best track stars.