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OneLoveOneEric
05-22-2008, 01:36 PM
On thestar.ca

Pachuca and Independiente, as suspected.

Pretty disappointing, IMO. Certainly not the showpieces I'd have hoped for.

werewolf
05-22-2008, 01:38 PM
Nice variety.

When West Ham is the all-star showcase, they kind of have to recalibrate the prestige level of the teams.

Laurignano
05-22-2008, 01:39 PM
On thestar.ca

Pachuca and Independiente, as suspected.

Pretty disappointing, IMO. Certainly not the showpieces I'd have hoped for.


Actually, this is a very very good friendly for our club. If we win the Canada cup we could very well see Pachuca. Its going to be good to see how we hold up agianst this club and if we can beat them.

OneLoveOneEric
05-22-2008, 01:39 PM
True enough. But, personally, if I'm not going to be wowed, I'd rather our boys didn't play friendlies and just focussed on the task at hand.

OneLoveOneEric
05-22-2008, 01:41 PM
Actually, this is a very very good friendly for our club. If we win the Canada cup we could very well see Pachuca. Its going to be good to see how we hold up agianst this club and if we can beat them.


I don't think the CC makes a difference. If we play Pachuca in that comp, then we play them. If we play them in a friendly and get shelled, do we not have to play them in the CC? Or if we win, do we get a bye? Nope, so it really doesn't matter if we play them now. Carver can watch tape if we have to play them for real later.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 01:41 PM
On thestar.ca

Pachuca and Independiente, as suspected.

Pretty disappointing, IMO. Certainly not the showpieces I'd have hoped for.


This sucks!

J .
05-22-2008, 01:41 PM
It will be nice to see some teams with different playing styles.

Broadview
05-22-2008, 01:42 PM
Great opportunities for James, Tebily, Harmse, Phlean, Lombardo/Cunny, Gala to shine if you ask me.

Nobody did though.

Canadian Blue
05-22-2008, 01:42 PM
True enough. But, personally, if I'm not going to be wowed, and rather our boys didn't play friendlies and just focussed on the task at hand.

I agree friendlies should be player pre/post season.....but I would will enjoy seeing Independiente. Hopefully Carver uses this game to play Julius James, Pat Phelan, and many of the kids.

Laurignano
05-22-2008, 01:43 PM
I don't think the CC makes a difference. If we play Pachuca in that comp, then we play them. If we play them in a friendly and get shelled, do we not have to play them in the CC? Or if we win, do we get a bye? Nope, so it really doesn't matter if we play them now. Carver can watch tape if we have to play them for real later.


Its true, but its just nice to see IMO. Im looking on the bright side lol

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 01:45 PM
Actually, this is a very very good friendly for our club. If we win the Canada cup we could very well see Pachuca. Its going to be good to see how we hold up agianst this club and if we can beat them.


Im sure this selection was made by tfc for some of the same reasons you have mentioned!


Still disapointed though!

My south end ticket for these games are listed at $70 a POP!

and thats the cheapest ticket!!! ...It will be interesting to se if they drop the prices..when they go onslae to the public!

giambac
05-22-2008, 01:46 PM
On thestar.ca

Pachuca and Independiente, as suspected.

Pretty disappointing, IMO. Certainly not the showpieces I'd have hoped for.

I'm really disappointed. :mad:Not what I wanted or expected.
I'm selling my tickets.

My 2 tickets in Section 115 have alrteady been sold,
I have 2 more seats in Section 223 - Dead centre field. If anyone is interested send me a PM.

Keyman
05-22-2008, 01:46 PM
Meh
Would have been nice to see a major team come in, but whatever. Friendlies are stupid anyway.

I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing us play teams like Pachuca and Independiente, I think it will be interesting.

Canadian Blue
05-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Guys, remember Euro 2008 is this summer so having South American teams is the only way we could guarantee each team's top players

Laurignano
05-22-2008, 01:49 PM
Meh
Would have been nice to see a major team come in, but whatever. Friendlies are stupid anyway.

I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing us play teams like Pachuca and Independiente, I think it will be interesting.


Exaclty, and it will be good to see some of our young guns go to work and how they hold up too.

arsenal
05-22-2008, 01:50 PM
Not disappointed with team teams but very unhappy to see the July 5 game. I am away for a wedding that day so will have to miss my first TFC game. :(

H Bomb
05-22-2008, 01:52 PM
I think this is great. We need to pull ourselves out of the European mentality and hopefully this is a start. These are two of South America's bigger teams and good on TFC for bringing them in and showing us what to aspire to.

Boschmeister
05-22-2008, 01:59 PM
I have always been a fan of going to friendly games against obscure teams but ones who will garner some pretty serious local support from expats. I don't see the attraction of a bottom of the table FA or Serie A side. On the flip side what big name side is going to fly over and play in front of 20K fans with minimal TV/Media coverage and on turf?

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 02:01 PM
These are two top teams from Mexico and Argentina people!!! this is not a disappointment!!

I rather have a top Central/South American team then a mid table European team.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:06 PM
These are two top teams from Mexico and Argentina people!!! this is not a disappointment!!

I rather have a top Central/South American team then a mid table European team.


Surely your not saying that these teams are better then mid table european sides?

GabrielHurl
05-22-2008, 02:07 PM
Summer Friendlies announced

July looks a bit jam-packed


July 1 vs Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 5 vs Pachuca - Friendly

July 9 @ Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 12 @ Chicago Fire - MLS

July 15 vs Independiente - Friendly

Jul 19 vs San Jose - MLS

July 22 vs Montreal - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 24 - All Star Game @ BMO Field

July 28 @ Real Salt Lake - MLS

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 02:08 PM
I have always been a fan of going to friendly games against obscure teams but ones who will garner some pretty serious local support from expats. I don't see the attraction of a bottom of the table FA or Serie A side. On the flip side what big name side is going to fly over and play in front of 20K fans with minimal TV/Media coverage and on turf?

Whats obscure about the 3rd most successful team in Argentina After River and Boca?? or are they obscure teams too??

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:10 PM
Thats insane!

Surely JC is smart enough not to play any of his top PLayers for these friendlies!!


July 1 vs Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 5 vs Pachuca - Friendly

July 9 @ Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 12 @ Chicago Fire - MLS

July 15 vs Independiente - Friendly

Jul 19 vs San Jose - MLS

July 22 vs Montreal - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 24 - All Star Game @ BMO Field

July 28 @ Real Salt Lake - MLS

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 02:11 PM
Surely your not saying that these teams are better then mid table european sides?

You don't think Independiente could challenge mid table Euro teams??

SilverSamurai
05-22-2008, 02:14 PM
Surely your not saying that these teams are better then mid table european sides?

In some cases they are.
These are not low ranking teams.
I'm glad that it's not 2 European teams just to change things up a bit.

People need to expand and look outside of Europe.
I hope I'm around for either of these games but if not I will be glued to the net for these.

Maybe next year we can get an Asian club and perhaps another club Europe. Bundesliga or a mid ranking La Liga club would be nice. (La Coruna anyone?)

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:14 PM
You don't think Independiente could challenge mid table Euro teams??

in a one game show down...yes....!!

In a full season in any top euro league....they would be relegated after one season!

Bobo
05-22-2008, 02:15 PM
True enough. But, personally, if I'm not going to be wowed, I'd rather our boys didn't play friendlies and just focussed on the task at hand.

Exactly. What's the point if they aren't going to be facing top class clubs? Waste of energy.

joelakeshore
05-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Thats insane!

Surely JC is smart enough not to play any of his top PLayers for these friendlies!!


July 1 vs Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 5 vs Pachuca - Friendly

July 9 @ Vancouver - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 12 @ Chicago Fire - MLS

July 15 vs Independiente - Friendly

Jul 19 vs San Jose - MLS

July 22 vs Montreal - CONCACAF Champions League Qualifier

July 24 - All Star Game @ BMO Field

July 28 @ Real Salt Lake - MLS
It would be nice to see how our first team matches up with Pachuca for CC's sake, but JC would have to be a madman to play them with the schedule being the way it is...personally, I really don't see the sense in these friendlies landing in the middle of a busy schedule besides being an opportunity for the reserves.

giambac
05-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Guys, remember Euro 2008 is this summer so having South American teams is the only way we could guarantee each team's top players

Remember,

Engalnd didn't qualify for this prestigous tournament!

Several teams from the EPL or champions league could have been avaialble.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:16 PM
In some cases they are.
These are not low ranking teams.
I'm glad that it's not 2 European teams just to change things up a bit.

People need to expand and look outside of Europe.
I hope I'm around for either of these games but if not I will be glued to the net for these.

Maybe next year we can get an Asian club and perhaps another club Europe. Bundesliga or a mid ranking La Liga club would be nice. (La Coruna anyone?)



Dont get me wrong...the thing that attracts me most about these games....i want to see how we match up vs our regions top clubs!

Boschmeister
05-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Whats obscure about the 3rd most successful team in Argentina After River and Boca?? or are they obscure teams too??

I would say obscure to the average football fan in Canada. I would argue most fans here follow the main Euro Leagues.

Nothing against Independiente, I am a Dinamo Zagreb supporter but I would also consider them somewhat obscure to Canadian Footie fans even though they would wipe the floor with any team in the MLS (prior to the exodus of their stars over last months).

SilverSamurai
05-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Dont get me wrong...the thing that attracts me most about these games....i want to see how we match up vs our regions top clubs!

Well these are some of the best clubs in the South America and from the Mexican League. Consider Pachuca a test of the CONCACAF Champions League. After they did make it to the finals (not sure if they won though)

ilikemusic
05-22-2008, 02:19 PM
People who are unhappy with these games need a kick in the ass.

Great teams and exactly the kind of teams we should be playing.

Theyre both better than West Ham anyway.

:dita:

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Remember,

Engalnd didn't qualify for this prestigous tournament!

Several teams from the EPL or champions league could have been avaialble.

please name a few of these teams you mention?

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Remember,

Engalnd didn't qualify for this prestigous tournament!

Several teams from the EPL or champions league could have been avaialble.

What does the English National side have to do with EPL clubs?? Lots of players would still be missing from the EPL clubs....

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:21 PM
What does the English National side have to do with EPL clubs?? Lots of players would still be missing from the EPL clubs....


he's on the pipe again!

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 02:24 PM
I would say obscure to the average football fan in Canada. I would argue most fans here follow the main Euro Leagues.

Nothing against Independiente, I am a Dinamo Zagreb supporter but I would also consider them somewhat obscure to Canadian Footie fans even though they would wipe the floor with any team in the MLS (prior to the exodus of their stars over last months).

You think that too many "Canadian footie fans" know much about Blackburn, Portsmouth, Man City, Middlesbrough, Wigan, Sunderland, or Bolton?? all placed between 7-16 in the EPL.....

giambac
05-22-2008, 02:33 PM
he's on the pipe again!

Dip stick.

Th ecomment was made that it was better to have Mexican and Soth Americn team come becuse of The 2008 Euro's in June. The argument that was made was that if a European club team came (say AC Milan, Porto, Bayern Munich etc), there was a risk that several of the players would not be able to make it because they would be playing for their national teams Italy, Portugal, Germany, Spain etc.

My point was that England did not qualify for the tournament. Hence if you brought over a mid level team from the EPL or a team from the champions league their palyers wouldn't be playing for the national side.

Got It. Do you now understand or do I have to get my 2 year old neighbour to explain it to you?

Boschmeister
05-22-2008, 02:41 PM
You think that too many "Canadian footie fans" know much about Blackburn, Portsmouth, Man City, Middlesbrough, Wigan, Sunderland, or Bolton?? all placed between 7-16 in the EPL.....

I would like to think so since their games are televised on Sportsnet/The Score (standard cable) on the weekends. I know they show South American games on GOL TV but their scores and highlites don't get any air time on the Score or Sportsnet.

werewolf
05-22-2008, 02:45 PM
who cares what the general public thinks or knows? We have heard of these teams, I would rather see CONCACAF champions Pachuca then Sunderland or Blackburn.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Dip stick.

Th ecomment was made that it was better to have Mexican and Soth Americn team come becuse of The 2008 Euro's in June. The argument that was made was that if a European club team came (say AC Milan, Porto, Bayern Munich etc), there was a risk that several of the players would not be able to make it because they would be playing for their national teams Italy, Portugal, Germany, Spain etc.

My point was that England did not qualify for the tournament. Hence if you brought over a mid level team from the EPL or a team from the champions league their palyers wouldn't be playing for the national side.

Got It. Do you now understand or do I have to get my 2 year old neighbour to explain it to you?

what team would you consider from the Champions Leauge?

footyfan
05-22-2008, 02:51 PM
I don't think the CC makes a difference. If we play Pachuca in that comp, then we play them. If we play them in a friendly and get shelled, do we not have to play them in the CC? Or if we win, do we get a bye? Nope, so it really doesn't matter if we play them now. Carver can watch tape if we have to play them for real later.

What he means is, that by playing Pachuca in a FRIENDLY, it gives your squad REAL WORLD experience playing them before it might count in the CONCACAF Champions League assuming you win the Canada Cup.
:canada:

footyfan
05-22-2008, 02:57 PM
I think this is great. We need to pull ourselves out of the European mentality and hopefully this is a start. These are two of South America's bigger teams and good on TFC for bringing them in and showing us what to aspire to.


Exactly. Suppose TFC becomes some sort of North American Power...

You're more than likely to be facing teams like Pachuca and Independiente in the CONCACAF Champions League, SuperLiga, Copa Sudamericana and perhaps even the Copa Libertadores than you will be to face Real Madrid in the Club World Cup.


European clubs hardly ever bring their a-squads and a-game when they come over, so who cares if you beat a disinterested Euro team over here who cares more about the shopping than the result in a friendly? DC has done it countless times and it still means nothing.

Much better to play against your future opponents so Carver et. al know how to change and adapt their playing style for regional international play.

MLS league play is quite different from the style of the Mexican league, CONCACAF and South America and at least teams from Mexico and South America take friendlies seriously as there is pride on the line and no one wants to lose to the "gringos".

bdrs
05-22-2008, 02:57 PM
I think this is great. We need to pull ourselves out of the European mentality and hopefully this is a start. These are two of South America's bigger teams and good on TFC for bringing them in and showing us what to aspire to.

Agree 100%

giambac
05-22-2008, 02:57 PM
what team would you consider from the Champions Leauge?


Of Course it would have to be he South Carlina Battery:taz::cool::noidea::D:eek::(

Wake up.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Surely your not saying that these teams are better then mid table european sides?

Pachuca is. Not sure about Independiente.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:08 PM
I would say obscure to the average football fan in Canada. I would argue most fans here follow the main Euro Leagues.



That's a problem, you need more Mexican immigrants then.

VPjr
05-22-2008, 03:12 PM
Remember,

Engalnd didn't qualify for this prestigous tournament!

Several teams from the EPL or champions league could have been avaialble.

last time I looked, the prestige EPL sides don't even feature englishmen so there goes that argument.

These are 2 teams that I personally can't wait to see them live. Pachuca is a perennial powerhouse (not so much this clausura but every team is entitled to a slightly off year). Independiente is consistently developing excellent players, including Aguerro, but their finances force them to sell too many of them to give them a chance to compete for a title but nonetheless, they are one of the 4 BIG clubs of Argentina.

Anyone who thinks these 2 teams would not survive most European leagues is out of their mind. The only two leagues that these teams might struggle in is La Liga and possibly EPL (I'd argue that Fulham, Sunderland or Wigan would have gone down if they had to compete with the 2007 edition of Pachuca).

Howeve, I agree that mid-season friendlies, played at the hottest time of the season, are stupid, I'm far more interested in league play and the Canada Cup. But, if you have to play them, I'd rather see Pachuca over Aston Villa and I'd much rather see Independiente than West Ham. There are only 4 (maybe 5) EPL sides I'd pay to see and none of them are come to wee little BMO field anytime soon. Once we get a 40,000 seater, then maybe we'll see them.

Cashcleaner
05-22-2008, 03:15 PM
SO we're playing the oldest professional team in Mexican history and the world renown Independiente from Argentina (though I admit their fortunes of late haven't been great). How are these not high-profile clubs in the soccer world? While I admit most Canadian fans generally follow the EPL almost exclusively, I'd think most others would be fairly impressed by the two friendlies we'll be facing.

Fort York Redcoat
05-22-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm not going to friendlies that have CONCACAF teams in them. Not interested in Independiante either but enjoy.

Juanito
05-22-2008, 03:17 PM
I will probably get lambasted, but a Mexican (not South American) and an Argentine (South American) is not what I was hoping for the friendlies. Call me a Euro-snob but I wanted to see somebody from across the pond!

noochie
05-22-2008, 03:19 PM
I am looking forward to seeing Pachuca. I have seen 3 of their games this year on FSC and they are an exciting team to watch. I must admit I know very little of Independiente but by all accounts I hear they are a good ticket also.

With the sched being as jammed as it is though in July I wouldn't expect many of our starters out there. Am I the only one who thinks that instead of these friendlies that the CCL tickets should have been included instead? Maybe it was a timing thing as the announcement came out later... maybe next time.

Cowboy905
05-22-2008, 03:19 PM
i'm happy about this.

i hate the epl and i'm sure a lot of people will enjoy Independiente and Pachuca.

Oldtimer
05-22-2008, 03:21 PM
I may be a little euro-snobbish, and am less interested in these teams, but Pachuca is valuable preparation for the CCL, assuming that we win the CC.

VPjr
05-22-2008, 03:22 PM
I will probably get lambasted, but a Mexican (not South American) and an Argentine (South American) is not what I was hoping for the friendlies. Call me a Euro-snob but I wanted to see somebody from across the pond!

euro-snob.

you told me to call you that so I did. :D

All I can say to you guys who would have prefered European clubs as friendly opponents is come to these 2 games and give it a chance. People are always skeptical about stuff they don't know. If you have the season's tickets already, use them and expand your horizons a little. you might be pleasantly surprised.

Juanito
05-22-2008, 03:23 PM
MLS league play is quite different from the style of the Mexican league, CONCACAF and South America and at least teams from Mexico and South America take friendlies seriously as there is pride on the line and no one wants to lose to the "gringos".

I don't think Latin America considers us "gringos" ... that's reserved for our friends south of the 49th!

CanadaLFC
05-22-2008, 03:24 PM
I am happy about this as well.

Your all entitled to your opinion, but its a piss-off when people think that if its not Euro, its not good. Independiente is a great team and play exciting football. Pachuca we can potentially see in CL, so why not play them?

Fort York Redcoat
05-22-2008, 03:27 PM
I've been told by Mexicans Gringo is reserved for Americans not all caucasians. I thought that kind of interesting...but friendlies will start being less attractive if they don't sellout...

Juanito
05-22-2008, 03:28 PM
I will give them a chance, a footie game is a footie game!

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Well these are some of the best clubs in the South America and from the Mexican League. Consider Pachuca a test of the CONCACAF Champions League. After they did make it to the finals (not sure if they won though)


Pachuca is the back to back CONCACAF Champions Cup champion. They won in 2007 and 2008 and will represent our region at the FIFA Club World Cup.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:31 PM
I've been told by Mexicans Gringo is reserved for Americans not all caucasians. I thought that kind of interesting...but friendlies will start being less attractive if they don't sellout...


To your average Mexican they won't make the distinction of America vs Canada. If anything they'd hate losing to a Canadian team even more than an American one because Canada's record in the sport is not that illustrious.

jabbronies
05-22-2008, 03:32 PM
good games from a football stand point, but not from a glitz and glamour view.

However, I still would like to not see these games take place right smack dab in mind season just before the final stretch for the playoffs.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-22-2008, 03:32 PM
I may be a little euro-snobbish, and am less interested in these teams, but Pachuca is valuable preparation for the CCL, assuming that we win the CC.

We play pachuca in between to huge games vs Vancouver....I cant see us fielding our best team it would be nuts considering the 2 big canada cup games!!

Whoever sloted these games in such an important month of july...should have there head examined!

Juanito
05-22-2008, 03:32 PM
Latin America, in general, knows very little about Canada. I think they know as much about us as we know about them. Either way, football is universal and Latin American countries take their football very seriously, so I will give them that.

Nomad
05-22-2008, 03:40 PM
Geez man, some people really do need to pull their heads out of their arses.

I gotta say Footyfan, desipte your less than warm reception on these boards i quite enjoy your posts and perspective. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this subject. I'd buy you a beer when i'm down in DC this Saturday, but unfortunately you wear the wrong jersey and i view you as the enemy on matchday.

RealG-TFC
05-22-2008, 03:45 PM
I'm really disappointed. :mad:Not what I wanted or expected.
I'm selling my tickets.

My 2 tickets in Section 115 have alrteady been sold,
I have 2 more seats in Section 223 - Dead centre field. If anyone is interested send me a PM.

:out:

giambac
05-22-2008, 03:49 PM
:out:


:mad::confused::cool::noidea::eek::taz:........... .

RealG-TFC
05-22-2008, 03:50 PM
To your average Mexican they won't make the distinction of America vs Canada. If anything they'd hate losing to a Canadian team even more than an American one because Canada's record in the sport is not that illustrious.

Well a lot of Mexicans actually know that they are different. They just don't really know much about Canada.

Though "gringo" is for Americans, I'm sure the uneducated people would just call any Caucasian that but it's mostly used for Americans. Hell I use the word myself.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:52 PM
good games from a football stand point, but not from a glitz and glamour view.

However, I still would like to not see these games take place right smack dab in mind season just before the final stretch for the playoffs.

Then consider these games a test of Toronto's football IQ. If your crowd is REALLY what you say it is, a bunch of knowledgable world football fanticos then you should get a great turnout.

But if it is as some suspect, a crowd of prawn sandwich euro-wannabees then I expect to see a lot of red, and I don't mean jersies.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:54 PM
We play pachuca in between to huge games vs Vancouver....I cant see us fielding our best team it would be nuts considering the 2 big canada cup games!!

Whoever sloted these games in such an important month of july...should have there head examined!


Welcome to MLS. You think if you make SuperLiga next year your schedule gets any easier? At least you only have a few Canada Cup games and friendlies.

Down here we have the SuperLiga AND the Open Cup plus league play.

VPjr
05-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Latin America, in general, knows very little about Canada. I think they know as much about us as we know about them. Either way, football is universal and Latin American countries take their football very seriously, so I will give them that.

Canada is a very low profile country all around the world. Whenever I am in Europe, there is virtually no distinction made between Canadians and Americans amongst the general public. In Italy, we're all "Americani". Same in Spain. The French make some distinction. I make a point of wearing a Canadian flag lapel pin whenever I travel but it hardly makes a dent. I travel to Asia quite a bit too and the only thing they know about Canada is Toronto and Vancouver because they've all got relatives living over here. It's a bit of a generalization but not that much.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:56 PM
Geez man, some people really do need to pull their heads out of their arses.

I gotta say Footyfan, desipte your less than warm reception on these boards i quite enjoy your posts and perspective. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this subject. I'd buy you a beer when i'm down in DC this Saturday, but unfortunately you wear the wrong jersey and i view you as the enemy on matchday.

No problem, I'd buy you a beer as well, but i'd be sure to piss in it while singing "Oh Canada" first.

;)

Just some good natured supporter ribbing

footyfan
05-22-2008, 03:59 PM
Canada is a very low profile country all around the world. Whenever I am in Europe, there is virtually no distinction made between Canadians and Americans amongst the general public. In Italy, we're all "Americani". Same in Spain. The French make some distinction. I make a point of wearing a Canadian flag lapel pin whenever I travel

Hey so do I! :canada: "Thank you Mr. Bush."

Pachuco
05-22-2008, 04:07 PM
My god, all we have is a bunch of cry babies in here. What pisses me off is not the fact that you would rather see a European team over a south american team. Sure, you have your right to who you prefer. It's THE FACT THAT you would say screw watching a TFC game simply because they aren't playing a European team. That's what I call a sad bunch of wanna be supporters. I go watch the TFC Academy games against CSL oponents because I support this team. Bunch of you morons won't go watch very good quality teams in their respective countries. Oh and guess what? Argentina is ranked #1 in the world. THAT'S RIGHT? #1. so get your head out of your European ass and realize that the only reason the EPL is any good is because of the international players that are brought up through the ranks in their respective countries.

canadian_bhoy
05-22-2008, 04:39 PM
Its official! No one from Europe wants to come to BMO and play on turf!!!

chip_butty
05-22-2008, 04:40 PM
On thestar.ca

Pachuca and Independiente, as suspected.

Pretty disappointing, IMO. Certainly not the showpieces I'd have hoped for.

Not disappointing..

CONCACAF Club Champs and Independiante Woo!

Very excited for both!

joel
05-22-2008, 04:44 PM
Dip stick.

My point was that England did not qualify for the tournament. Hence if you brought over a mid level team from the EPL or a team from the champions league their palyers wouldn't be playing for the national side.

Got It. Do you now understand or do I have to get my 2 year old neighbour to explain it to you?

Are you aware that only 38% of players in the EPL are english? And the % of them that are marquee players is even less. You're kind of a douche, by the way.

footyfan
05-22-2008, 04:47 PM
My god, all we have is a bunch of cry babies in here. What pisses me off is not the fact that you would rather see a European team over a south american team. Sure, you have your right to who you prefer. It's THE FACT THAT you would say screw watching a TFC game simply because they aren't playing a European team. That's what I call a sad bunch of wanna be supporters. I go watch the TFC Academy games against CSL oponents because I support this team. Bunch of you morons won't go watch very good quality teams in their respective countries. Oh and guess what? Argentina is ranked #1 in the world. THAT'S RIGHT? #1. so get your head out of your European ass and realize that the only reason the EPL is any good is because of the international players that are brought up through the ranks in their respective countries.

QFT.

Woah did I just say that. I guess I'm hanging around these forums too much now that I've used the infamous "QFT".

That said, I would be hyped to see a good African side like Heart of Oaks or Asian side like Urawa Reds. Different styles.

Pachuco
05-22-2008, 04:48 PM
Are you aware that only 38% of players in the EPL are english? And the % of them that are marquee players is even less. You're kind of a douche, by the way.

:party:

joel
05-22-2008, 04:50 PM
Canada is a very low profile country all around the world. Whenever I am in Europe, there is virtually no distinction made between Canadians and Americans amongst the general public. In Italy, we're all "Americani". Same in Spain. The French make some distinction. I make a point of wearing a Canadian flag lapel pin whenever I travel but it hardly makes a dent. I travel to Asia quite a bit too and the only thing they know about Canada is Toronto and Vancouver because they've all got relatives living over here. It's a bit of a generalization but not that much.

I don't really agree with that. We're americans to everyone by face and accent (by not being british). As soon as people know you're canadian you get a lot fo respect from people. I wouldn't say canada is low profile at all. A lot of coutries got a lot of help from us in the world wars, and we have a strong international reputation.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-22-2008, 04:55 PM
awesome. Should be good, ideally its rotation on the squad so they arent exhausted. Ideally friendlies are at the start or end of the season. Great selection anyways! Excited to see what these other teams bring, dunno either of them at all (cept what little ive seen on the tele).

Marco2K
05-22-2008, 05:01 PM
Back afew weeks ago at the reserve game MO told afew of us that it was these teams coming.

But sure enough some of the KNOW IT ALL people on this site did not believe us.

OLD news.

SilverSamurai
05-22-2008, 05:02 PM
I've been told by Mexicans Gringo is reserved for Americans not all caucasians. I thought that kind of interesting...but friendlies will start being less attractive if they don't sellout...

Not what I've been told. Pretty much anyone "north" is a gringo. Although if you tell them you're Canadian they won't "insult" you anymore. :canada:;)

BeachRed
05-22-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't really agree with that. We're americans to everyone by face and accent (by not being british). As soon as people know you're canadian you get a lot fo respect from people. I wouldn't say canada is low profile at all. A lot of coutries got a lot of help from us in the world wars, and we have a strong international reputation.

There's a new book out called The Truth About Canada (http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780771041655)that says a lot of the way we view our country has changed in the last twenty years - and not for the better.

Oh well, makes us like everybody else, right :canada:

These friendlies will be just that for us now, friendlies, with really nothing on the line. Much better than when we're always trying to prove ourselves in meaningless games. They should be fun.

Azerban
05-22-2008, 05:09 PM
*has never seen these two teams play*

*calls these two teams small*

*makes wild assumptions based on nothing*

i'm participating in this thread too!

SilverSamurai
05-22-2008, 05:14 PM
We play pachuca in between to huge games vs Vancouver....I cant see us fielding our best team it would be nuts considering the 2 big canada cup games!!

Whoever sloted these games in such an important month of july...should have there head examined!

That's my only thing. Why both in July? July is going to be packed! Guess this will be the true test of Winsper's training...

Man I wish I was here in July. Grr...

FluSH
05-22-2008, 05:15 PM
FluSH will be happy to take ALL of your tickets for these games.... I MEAN ALL

If anyone does not want to go... Feel Free to make a donation to yours truly! =P

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-22-2008, 05:16 PM
I'm really disappointed. :mad:Not what I wanted or expected.
I'm selling my tickets.

My 2 tickets in Section 115 have alrteady been sold,
I have 2 more seats in Section 223 - Dead centre field. If anyone is interested send me a PM.


theres a real TFC fan for you!!!:mad::mad:

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-22-2008, 05:22 PM
Canada is a very low profile country all around the world. Whenever I am in Europe, there is virtually no distinction made between Canadians and Americans amongst the general public. In Italy, we're all "Americani". Same in Spain. The French make some distinction. I make a point of wearing a Canadian flag lapel pin whenever I travel but it hardly makes a dent. I travel to Asia quite a bit too and the only thing they know about Canada is Toronto and Vancouver because they've all got relatives living over here. It's a bit of a generalization but not that much.

Christ why worry aabout what Italians and french think of us. Christ one supported the Nazis and one didn't put up a fight against them, their personal characteristics suck at the best of times. Canada is the most friendly nation of the 3 North american countries. Pachuca will be a big test for us...the Argentine team as well, we don't need the Benficas coming back to play a 0-0 draw we can bring in any Italian team for that.

giambac
05-22-2008, 05:26 PM
Are you aware that only 38% of players in the EPL are english? And the % of them that are marquee players is even less. You're kind of a douche, by the way.

Ass wipe, keep it clean

I'm kind of a douche. I'll settle for that. You are a Douche.

If you bring a mid level team from the ePL or champions league the majority are in fact English.. The top Internationals paly for the ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool. Doesn't aren't the teams I'm talKing about:confused:

UltraSuperMegaMo
05-22-2008, 05:28 PM
One advantage of playing a Mexican and South American team - I wont know if they’re fielding B teams.

Seriously, I don’t see why some people are turning their noses up at these teams.

giambac
05-22-2008, 05:30 PM
theres a real TFC fan for you!!!:mad::mad:

These games are meaningless, don't count for anything. In addition to that TFC has a full schedule in July so I'm sure you will be seing the majoriyy of reserve players. Also not keen on the 2 reams coming over.

Hey Big supporter put your wallet where your mouth is and by my tickets. Special price for you becasuen your the biggets suporter.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-22-2008, 05:34 PM
These games are meaningless, don't count for anything. In addition to that TFC has a full schedule in July so I'm sure you will be seing the majoriyy of reserve players. Also not keen on the 2 reams coming over.

Hey Big supporter put your wallet where your mouth is and by my tickets. Special price for you becasuen your the biggets suporter.



i already have season thanks...those games give exposure to the club/league which is needed. I will demand first team players not reserve,
i can watch reserve games for that. you should sell all you tickets though
there are some real supporters waiting out there..

jloome
05-22-2008, 05:41 PM
Good teams with good histories, both from countries with good communities in Toronto. Makes sense to me. These things aren't just about impressing the widest fan base.

RealG-TFC
05-22-2008, 05:51 PM
CA Independiente is a good team. None other than Sergio "Kun" Aguero came from that club.

Here's a highlight of game against boca:

N9w8SkKvGes

and this of their support

lGBC4DBRhLs

RealG-TFC
05-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Pachuca

Lol

PhIJOvzL9xk

Damn...

kCG50wxlioQ

joel
05-22-2008, 06:04 PM
Ass wipe, keep it clean

I'm kind of a douche. I'll settle for that. You are a Douche.

If you bring a mid level team from the ePL or champions league the majority are in fact English.. The top Internationals paly for the ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool. Doesn't aren't the teams I'm talKing about:confused:


Yeah, stick to your standard m.o., show up in a thread, shit on it and insult everybody. Little surprise people don't seem to care what you think, and have no respect for your opinions.

As you were.

ManUtd4ever
05-22-2008, 06:18 PM
This is somewhat disappointing from a selfish point of view as I would obviously prefer to see top flight European clubs at BMO Field. However, the TFC braintrust must cater to the diverse fan base in T.O. for the benefit of the supporters as a whole. Besides, even as a casual observer of South American football, I'm aware of the storied history of Pachuca and Independiente as elite football clubs in Mexico and Argentina...

giambac
05-22-2008, 06:19 PM
Yeah, stick to your standard m.o., show up in a thread, shit on it and insult everybody. Little surprise people don't seem to care what you think, and have no respect for your opinions.

As you were.

buudy I staed my opinion on teams i wanted to see and didn't want to see.

Your the on ewith the insults calling me a douche. Grow up.

ensco
05-22-2008, 06:25 PM
Why couldn't we have one "AV or Benfica" and one "Independiente or Pachuca"?

I'd be very curious to know - that was the obvious way to go.

I have my suspicions about the answer (clue - ask Martin O'Neill how he felt about his GK going down, and seeing 3 TFC guys get hurt)

olegunnar
05-22-2008, 06:29 PM
The Argies are funny. I watched some of Independiente vs River this past weekend and the diving was off the charts. The thing is, instead of pulling a Schelotto and pouting when they didn't get the foul call they sort of looked up with a "well I tried" or "did my cheating duty, can't ask for more from me" kind of look. Makes the diving a bit more amusing and more tolerable, for the neutral at least.

olegunnar
05-22-2008, 06:35 PM
Also I felt a little less embarassed that one of our songs is a men without hat's tune after watching Independiente....their main song is to the tune It's a heartache by Bonnie Tyler!

james
05-22-2008, 06:35 PM
Independiente Supporters are some of the best in the world:


http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/James_d_champ/Argentina3.jpg

james
05-22-2008, 06:36 PM
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/James_d_champ/Argentina2.jpg

james
05-22-2008, 06:43 PM
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/James_d_champ/Ind.jpg

Toronto_Bhoy
05-22-2008, 06:43 PM
To be honest, I'm more interested in seeing Montreal and Vancouver…

nfitz
05-22-2008, 06:45 PM
When there's not much else going on, the friendlies are fine (though personally I would tend to want to pay less for these, compared to regular matches - but if other's don't mind paying, I'm fine with it).

But with Canada Cup games at the same time, and a good chance that we'll have 4 more Champion's League games this season as well, I'd sooner that there the team had some rest, than playing 8 games in 4 weeks. The current 2 weeks are a bit of a marathon, but we'll have 4 weeks like that in July - with some players having to squeeze in a 9th game (All-Star game) during that.

Nodoubtguy
05-22-2008, 06:45 PM
A goal from Toluca, not one of the friendly opponents but a club that might be considered "obscure" to Euro-centric football fans

UJq4ANEhCZ0

james
05-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Independiente also are one of South Americas best teams. They have won 7 Copa Libertadores Cups ( its South Americas version Champions League Cup) thats more then any other team in South America. They have also won the 3rd most Argentina Championships behind just River Plate and Boca with 14 tittles. They have also won 3 (more then any other team) of the now discontinued Copa Interamericana which was the Championship between best teams of South America and North America. And have aslo won 6 other international Cups.

OneLoveOneEric
05-22-2008, 06:58 PM
^^^Independiente is clearly the better of the two teams. I'm not bummed at all about them.
Pachuca is stupid though. And, no, I couldn't give a shit about CONCACAF "glory".

Toronto_Bhoy
05-22-2008, 06:59 PM
This will be a real acid test as to how much fans are willing to spend…are these premium priced tickets…with all due respect to our Latin members…I don't consider these premium opponents.

Pachuco
05-22-2008, 07:17 PM
This will be a real acid test as to how much fans are willing to spend…are these premium priced tickets…with all due respect to our Latin members…I don't consider these premium opponents.

16,000 season ticket holders already own tickets to these games. What your saying doesn't make sense. The test will be the attendance at the game. Simple as that.

Toronto_Bhoy
05-22-2008, 07:41 PM
Your absolutely right, Pachuco…how many will show up…how many will attempt to off load…how many of the 4,000 "public" tickets will sell?

Your asking supporters to attend 9 games in 28 days…not only that but these two fixtures are the least important in TFC's schedule during this insanely hectic period.

I'm not saying they aren't teams of quality…I'm saying it's too much footie…for the players and fans…it's a game every four days!

Blixa
05-22-2008, 07:53 PM
I think these friendlies are pointless. We have enough games as it is and all we're doing is putting our players in jeopardy with these Latin hotheads.

rocker
05-22-2008, 07:58 PM
i actually wouldn't mind if they put some of the kids in for these. give them a chance against good competition. I'm itchin to see Gala and Melo go at it.

FluSH
05-22-2008, 08:05 PM
The funny thing is both Independiente supporters and Pachuca supporters are probably saying.... WTF? Who's TFC? I want my money back BITCH!!!

MrHawk
05-22-2008, 08:07 PM
^^
Lol

ExiledRed
05-22-2008, 08:07 PM
Pachuco are the Concacaf champions correct?

Its like any team in Europe playing a friendly with the CL champions, what's wrong with that? If we disregard Concacaf champions, why do we care if we even qualify?

Surely we want the Concacaf CL to be a regular and worthy tournament for our team, and make no mistake, Pachuco are going to be the team to beat when we play in it.

$70 though?

More than a sufficient match up, and maybe less potentially humiliating than going against Elite opposition and getting gutted 6-0

Toronto_Bhoy
05-22-2008, 08:08 PM
Rocker, I'm expecting the reserves with a couple of runs for first team players for these games and I'll be livid if it's not…

Craver must be saying to Mo…"you've gotta be fuckin' joking!"

Nomad
05-22-2008, 08:56 PM
I'd love to see both these matches! I'm waaay more excited to see these teams than some shit EPL reserve team. Anyone needs to unload some tickets in south/127 pm me.

TorontoFC_Matt
05-22-2008, 09:29 PM
I like pachuca, and I can take my boss to the argentine club match :) haha

Red CB Toronto
05-23-2008, 12:02 AM
I am looking forward to both games, it will be very interesting to see the different styles, it will be a good time.

greatwhitenorf
05-23-2008, 12:07 AM
I'll admit I don't know much about these teams. I see them from time to time on FOX, but really don't follow those leagues. But I'm intrigued by these choices, which really do seem to offer better value than Euro sides stripped of talent playing in the Euro 2008 tourney.

Looking down the road for TFC, these teams should offer far more relevant playing experiences than some mid-level Prem side. Look at Man City being such great value for the ticket-buying fans of Asia. Besides, at the rate we're picking up players and staff, we'll be watching Newcastle in disguise in no time.

If these teams are likely to field their reserves and we field many of ours, could well be a very robust pair of games as guys bust their chops trying to impress their respective coaches. I'll be going to the Indy game for sure.

Good calls, TFC.

Whoop
05-23-2008, 12:50 AM
Man, some people are dense.

Last I checked, people of many different backgrounds live in the GTA. And while I don't profess to know much about Pachuca and Independiente, I'd take them over a Siena or West Ham any day. Argentina is one of the top football nations in the world and Independiente is one of the top Argentinan teams. Hell, you might end up seeing players that European teams are drooling over and could be playing in Europe come next season. And Pachuca is the oldest team in Mexico and one of its most successful clubs. What has Siena won?

I won't be able to make the Pachuca game as I'll be in Europe but I'll try to make it to the Independiente game if I have money when I come back - and hopefully the ticket prices aren't too out of whack, which is my only slight concern.

But at the end of the day, I'm going to support TFC.

Red CB Toronto
05-23-2008, 01:22 AM
I just think all the Euro types are crying in their beers, I on the otherhand is quite happy to see the South American style on the pitch, the Mexicans are not too shabby either, if you are true to the Reds, just enjoy the games.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 08:06 AM
What i cant understand is how people call themselves true football fans and arent even in the least bit a)curious about these other teams b) excited to see a team they know nothing about play. If youre a true fan you love the sport in all its forms and want to consume more and more.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 08:23 AM
Dunno what the excuse is if you have season tickets and got these games for free.

CanadaLFC
05-23-2008, 08:23 AM
These games are meaningless, don't count for anything. In addition to that TFC has a full schedule in July so I'm sure you will be seing the majoriyy of reserve players. Also not keen on the 2 reams coming over.

Hey Big supporter put your wallet where your mouth is and by my tickets. Special price for you becasuen your the biggets suporter.

But if its a team that you wanted to see play, you would go correct? It would still mean that TFC are playing reserves and we would still have a full schedule.

Which proves Joel's point that you wouldn't actually go to support TFC, but to go watch a "euro" team. That really questions support! However, there are a lot of real supporters that can't get tickets, so you shouldn't have a problem offloading them.

ComeonyouReds
05-23-2008, 08:56 AM
fucking Gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

giambac
05-23-2008, 10:00 AM
But if its a team that you wanted to see play, you would go correct? It would still mean that TFC are playing reserves and we would still have a full schedule.

Which proves Joel's point that you wouldn't actually go to support TFC, but to go watch a "euro" team. That really questions support! However, there are a lot of real supporters that can't get tickets, so you shouldn't have a problem offloading them.

This is my point.

1) I purchased 4 season tickets and paid good $$ for my tickets.
2) As a STH I have the right to do what I please with my tickets.
3) I am a big TFC supporter and thats wahy I purcahsed 4 tickets and paid good $.
4) I go to watch all TFC regular season games whcin count in the standings
5) I am not a supprter of international friendlies for 2 reasons
i) The games don't count in the satndings
ii) I'm not an idiot and realize that TFC has a full schedule in July with league games + 2 CC games and now + 2 friendlies. Chances are that TFC will rest most of their regulars for these games and use reserve players. Mo johnston learned his lesson last year with the injuries incurred during the friendlies.They will use their regulars for league games and CC games
6) I would go watch an international game if it was a team that interested me. Last year I watched both Benfica and Aston Villa. This year team don't interest me. Everyone has preferences. everyone has their own tastes. I wouldn't go watch any Euro team. It would have to be a team that interest me because I know there will be alot of reserve players from both sides.
It doesn't mean I'm not a supporter. I can't go to all the games ( I do have a life and family)so these are 2 games I will try and unload and give other supporters a chance.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

CanadaLFC
05-23-2008, 10:11 AM
I do not think that anyone is ACTUALLY a huge fan of the friendlies because they have a potential to cause an injury that can hurt us during games that count, unless they are just going to watch the teams brought over. It is also very understandable if you can't make every game because of family/work commitments. However, you made it sound like you wouldn't go because the "big" teams aren't coming. Maybe I am wrong and am misunderstanding you, but I believe that we are there for TFC first and not for benifca, aston villa etc.


Also, I think this may also be an indication of what the quality difference is between us and the Mexicans/Argentinians !!

OneLoveOneEric
05-23-2008, 10:12 AM
What i cant understand is how people call themselves true football fans and arent even in the least bit a)curious about these other teams b) excited to see a team they know nothing about play. If youre a true fan you love the sport in all its forms and want to consume more and more.


Really? Let's think about that. So if TFC announced they were playing friendlies against 2 Toronto high school teams, I'm supposed to be excited because I want to consume football in any form? That's absurd. I'm not comparing these teams to high school sides by any means, but your logic is very flawed. I love football. I love TFC. I love TFC so much that not only am I willing, but I get EXCITED to go watch them play every week against teams that are very often quite half-assed, in a league that is quite half-assed. That is me "consuming" football out of love. Why aren't people allowed to have preferences? If I'm not interested in these clearly meaningless games, why do I have to be excited in order to prove what a supporter I am?
These games have absolutely dick all to do with TFC. They are showpieces, cash grabs, practice opportunities, whatever you want to call them.
To each his/her own.

Damien
05-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Pachucaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... i'm excited to see a top mexican club!

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-23-2008, 10:22 AM
IF your gona bring mexico's and argentina's best atleaste invite the best!!

Pachuca Finished 3rd!
and the argentine (who are they?) Finished mid table!? 5th i think?

FluSH
05-23-2008, 10:29 AM
Let's be honest here... How attractive are WE to international clubs...

Some of the questions asked about us:

1) Who are we
2) What have we done
3) hmmm ok, how did we finish last year?
4) How's their Stadium like?
5) Did you say Artifical Turf?!!?!

All of the above translate into $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That MLSE has to dish out.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 10:30 AM
Really? Let's think about that. So if TFC announced they were playing friendlies against 2 Toronto high school teams, I'm supposed to be excited because I want to consume football in any form? That's absurd. I'm not comparing these teams to high school sides by any means, but your logic is very flawed. I love football. I love TFC. I love TFC so much that not only am I willing, but I get EXCITED to go watch them play every week against teams that are very often quite half-assed, in a league that is quite half-assed. That is me "consuming" football out of love. Why aren't people allowed to have preferences? If I'm not interested in these clearly meaningless games, why do I have to be excited in order to prove what a supporter I am?
These games have absolutely dick all to do with TFC. They are showpieces, cash grabs, practice opportunities, whatever you want to call them.
To each his/her own.

Thats not the case tho is it?
Its two world class teams, how can one not be excited about two world class teams playing our team?

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 10:36 AM
I dont understand why people are upset if they dont intend on going anyways?
Is it because they cant sell off their tickets at a premium price?

giambac
05-23-2008, 10:46 AM
Really? Let's think about that. So if TFC announced they were playing friendlies against 2 Toronto high school teams, I'm supposed to be excited because I want to consume football in any form? That's absurd. I'm not comparing these teams to high school sides by any means, but your logic is very flawed. I love football. I love TFC. I love TFC so much that not only am I willing, but I get EXCITED to go watch them play every week against teams that are very often quite half-assed, in a league that is quite half-assed. That is me "consuming" football out of love. Why aren't people allowed to have preferences? If I'm not interested in these clearly meaningless games, why do I have to be excited in order to prove what a supporter I am?
These games have absolutely dick all to do with TFC. They are showpieces, cash grabs, practice opportunities, whatever you want to call them.
To each his/her own.

I must say this was the best explanation I've heard on this topic. You did a gret job explaining your view.

I have the same feelings and have expressed my opinions on this forum on this topic. I have been called a traitor, an asshole and not a real TFC supporter because I think these games are a waste of time.

What people don't realize that as STH we paid good $ for our tickets. How can they call us non supporters when we are paying the players salaries.
You are correct, the MLS is at best an average league and the play is average. Yet we buy tickets becasue of our love for soccer and for TFC. Yet when we say we don't care about these meaningless games you get shit on.

As stated I don't care for these games because they are meaningless. Also TFC has a full schedule in July so you will be seeing mostly reserve players that don't interest me. Thirdly I admit I would have preferred a Euro team (that just happpens to be my cup of tea).
Also there are time constraints and family commitments that limits the games you can go to. If something has to give for me it is the interrnational friendlies.

I think the people that complainn otherwise and say you have to attend every game, every friendlly, every CC games, every reserve game, every academy game, every practice, Need to get a LIFE. Something must be lacking in their lives.

Dave67
05-23-2008, 10:48 AM
I'm not reading this whole thread, but the friendlies are freebies. Add up your game tickets and you will see these 2 games did not cost anything. Don't go if you don't want to go but don't moan about being ripped off on a free ticket.

** Disclaimer I suck at quick math so if I am wrong remember you were not charged for this post :)

footyfan
05-23-2008, 11:00 AM
I do not think that anyone is ACTUALLY a huge fan of the friendlies because they have a potential to cause an injury that can hurt us during games that count, unless they are just going to watch the teams brought over. It is also very understandable if you can't make every game because of family/work commitments. However, you made it sound like you wouldn't go because the "big" teams aren't coming. Maybe I am wrong and am misunderstanding you, but I believe that we are there for TFC first and not for benifca, aston villa etc.


Also, I think this may also be an indication of what the quality difference is between us and the Mexicans/Argentinians !!


What scares me about you guys playing Independiente is that you may eventually partner with them, thereby funneling some of their reserve players into TFC like Dallas has done with Brazilian club Atletico Parnese and trying to do with Mexican club Tigres.


Partnerships often grow out of these friendlies with clubs south of the US border.

Pachuco
05-23-2008, 12:07 PM
What scares me about you guys playing Independiente is that you may eventually partner with them, thereby funneling some of their reserve players into TFC like Dallas has done with Brazilian club Atletico Parnese and trying to do with Mexican club Tigres.


Partnerships often grow out of these friendlies with clubs south of the US border.

Dude, I'm starting to think you are smart :)

no really, I do enjoy your posts and almost always seem to agree with you!

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm not reading this whole thread, but the friendlies are freebies. Add up your game tickets and you will see these 2 games did not cost anything. Don't go if you don't want to go but don't moan about being ripped off on a free ticket.

** Disclaimer I suck at quick math so if I am wrong remember you were not charged for this post :)

Yep, thats what i dont understand.

OneLoveOneEric
05-23-2008, 12:38 PM
Well, this board has set the precedent that buying a ticket means you can complain about food lines, the ratio of foam to beer in your cup, the nature in which substitutions are signaled to the field, and endless other minutia at the game, so I hardly think expressing disappointment at the choice of friendly opponents is frivolous next to those complaints.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 12:41 PM
Well, this board has set the precedent that buying a ticket means you can complain about food lines, the ratio of foam to beer in your cup, the nature in which substitutions are signaled to the field, and endless other minutia at the game, so I hardly think expressing disappointment at the choice of friendly opponents is frivolous next to those complaints.

HAHAHA
Fact
I put them all in the same category/box
[do not want]

OneLoveOneEric
05-23-2008, 12:44 PM
I hear ya, OMY.
I don't think I was moaning either. I jut get pissed when my thread started with me saying in one sentence that I was disappointed in the opponents chosen, and then somehow this becomes an issue about my love of TFC. The two have nothing to do with each other, IMO.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 12:46 PM
I hear ya, OMY.
I don't think I was moaning either. I jut get pissed when my thread started with me saying in one sentence that I was disappointed in the opponents chosen, and then somehow this becomes an issue about my love of TFC. The two have nothing to do with each other, IMO.

Pretty reasonable point of view when stated like that.
I guess for me i just dont understand how people cant be somewhat curious about both of these opponents and/or why season ticket holders are angry when the tickets are free...

Draracle
05-23-2008, 12:50 PM
I think these are great friendlies. I don't know what all the crybabies are on about...

Technorgasm
05-23-2008, 01:06 PM
That club is now Pachuca, champions of CONCACAF for the second time and now carrying the banner of their nation and the region to do battle against the best the world can put against them.


and this team is NOT suitabel for a friendly?

ya. . .2 time champs of the biggest / highest level competition TFC has a chance to play for.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 01:22 PM
I am super excited to see Independiente. in terms of world footballing history they are one of the biggest clubs out there. 14 league titles, 7 copa libertadores!!, 2 intercontinental cups. stepping outside the eurocentric view clubs don't come much bigger than this. not to mention the fact that the argentine league is a very attractive league to watch with great football (when there is no diving and rioting lol) and i am pretty excited to go to this game.

i am not too familiar with pachuca though, i think they have come to the forefront more recently but no matter, it is good experience for the team to play someone like that for next year after we win the MLS cup...

UltraSuperMegaMo
05-23-2008, 01:45 PM
What scares me about you guys playing Independiente is that you may eventually partner with them, thereby funneling some of their reserve players into TFC like Dallas has done with Brazilian club Atletico Parnese and trying to do with Mexican club Tigres.


Partnerships often grow out of these friendlies with clubs south of the US border.

That had occurred to me as well. There was an article not too long ago in which Mo (remember Mo? Haven’t herd anything from him in ages) said TFC was looking to partner up with a South American team. Lets hope this is the first step.

rocker
05-23-2008, 01:50 PM
I watched Pachuca play DC at home earlier this year. Pachuca was awesome (altho DC sucks so it's probably not high enough competition for them ;) ) Pachuca had a great chemistry together and played a highly entertaining game.

Nodoubtguy
05-23-2008, 01:56 PM
and the argentine (who are they?) Finished mid table!? 5th i think?

They must be thinking..."wait, they have Football in Canada??"
Who are they, who are we?? A MLS team with one year under their belt (when they finished LAST in the league!!).

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 02:04 PM
IF your gona bring mexico's and argentina's best atleaste invite the best!!

Pachuca Finished 3rd!
and the argentine (who are they?) Finished mid table!? 5th i think?

uhmm ok. you might want to do a tad bit of research before you post. historically independiente are one of the best teams in SOUTH AMERICA nevermind just argentina

Cambridge_Red
05-23-2008, 02:08 PM
One thing is for sure our team is going to be exhausted.

Nodoubtguy
05-23-2008, 02:11 PM
uhmm ok. you might want to do a tad bit of research before you post. historically independiente are one of the best teams in SOUTH AMERICA nevermind just argentina

Just so people know how good Independiente are, heres a list of Copa Libertadores winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#By_club), or is that not a good competition because it's not played in Europe??

giambac
05-23-2008, 02:18 PM
I'm not reading this whole thread, but the friendlies are freebies. Add up your game tickets and you will see these 2 games did not cost anything. Don't go if you don't want to go but don't moan about being ripped off on a free ticket.

** Disclaimer I suck at quick math so if I am wrong remember you were not charged for this post :)

See this is the problem. Some people just don't understand. I'm not insulting you here just trying to make a point so people are clear and taht there is no misundersatndings out there.

Let's be realistic here, Nothing is free. We live in a capitalist world where maoney drives everything. Everyone (individuals, corporations) are out there to make $$$$. MLSE is no exception. MLSE is not a charity and they don't give anything out for free. In fact they are the opposites. They are an entity that is driven by the bottom line. The first priority is the bottom line.

Let' take an example. These #'s are made up,and used for the example.

At the beginning of the season MLSE know what they wnat to sell their seats for (i.e Revenue targets). Assume 1 Season ticket costs for a mid range seat is $600. There are 15 regular season games so that works out to an average cost of $40/ticket

Now MLSE says they want to bring in 2 internatioanl friendlies. My sources say that last year when they brought in 2 Euro teams it cost close to $1 million .This was because both Ashton Villa are well known teams in the international communities (Therefore demanded big fees to come over) and becasue of the exchange rate (Cdn $ vs the Britih pound and Euro is low). So it cost them $1 million - lets say $500k for each team for simplicity. MLSE then wants to make aprofit on this game . Let's say they want a meagre 20% return which is another $200k Therefore MLSE in fact turns around and builds these costs in their ticket prices.There are 20,000 seats in BMO. To recover the $500k cost per game +$200k profit it works to another $35 per ticket

So rather than paying $600 for 15 regular season games , you are now paying (600 +35+35) $670 for 15 regualr season games +2 international games.

This is exactly waht MLSE did. In your Season ticket package, the fees included 15 regular season games +2 international. The costs were built in. Nothing is free. If you don't realize it, then your a fool. That's how the businees works.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-23-2008, 02:19 PM
JOhnny Carver's ((((ALL RED)))) ARMY!
JOhnny Carver's ((((ALL RED)))) ARMY!
JOhnny Carver's ((((ALL RED)))) ARMY!


oops wrong thread!

giambac
05-23-2008, 02:28 PM
Dude, I'm starting to think you are smart :)

no really, I do enjoy your posts and almost always seem to agree with you!


Pachuco,

Let me start by saying I'm happy that Pachuca is coming over for you. Hope you enjoy the game.

However, I hate to burst your bubble. There won't be a partnership between TFC and any Mexican or taem from South America.

It is plain and simple why they are coming over. IT's all economics (COSTS)

A litlle birdie (friend of mine who works at MLSE - no names mentioned) told me at the begiining of the season that no European team would be coming over this year. Apparently MLSE lost money on last years game. 2 reasons for this. Both ashton Villa and Benfiaca are well known teams in the international community and demanded big $$ to come over. The second reason was that the Cdn$ is poor against both the British pound and the Euro. So the exchange rate conversion hurt them.

Now if you lok at Pachuca and Independente, both aren't as well known teams and therefore don't demand as much to come over. In othe rwords it is less expensive. Secondly, the Cdn$ is very strong against both the Mexico peso and the Argentina peso. TFC gains on the exchange.

In other words it is cheap to bring them over. Less expensive for MLSE and they can still get the same revenue from ticket sales. This is the sole reason why these team sare coming here. IT's palin and simple. It's economics.

Like I said I hope you enjoy the game but don't expect any partnerships anytime soon.

joelakeshore
05-23-2008, 02:45 PM
I have to admit my eurocentric bias meant I wasn't crazy about the friendlies- but before complaining prematurely, I took 5 minutes to actually learn about Independiente, and I have to say that now I'm pretty excited about seeing them play. Besides their amazing history, they've raised some of Argentina's top talents in recent times- Milito, Cambiasso, Aguero, Forlan (Uruguay, but still), and Ustari (soon to be great)- you can't be a fan of Argentinian football or their national team (or football, for that matter) and not be excited about seeing this team. They have some great young players that will be in the national mix for some time to come, and will bring a flavour of football to the grounds that we won't see again this season.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Gambiac, you are officially slipping back into being ridiculous after having one or two good points in a previous thread. We know how the ticket system works, and to be frank it seems that either a) you like to see your own words in print or b) like to complain about everything and anything (and disguise it as 'telling it how it is'). Then again it could be both. The tickets are free, you didnt pay extra, MLSE doesnt owe us shit and they have given us two great games with great opponents. If you dont liek that maybe you should contact them and see if they will buy your tickets back.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Let it also be said that with all the mismanagment and hardships that youve endured and been quite vocal about throughout this season and im sure the last, that it is amazing that you are still a TFC supporter.

Nodoubtguy
05-23-2008, 02:55 PM
I have to admit my eurocentric bias meant I wasn't crazy about the friendlies- but before complaining prematurely, I took 5 minutes to actually learn about Independiente, and I have to say that now I'm pretty excited about seeing them play. Besides their amazing history, they've raised some of Argentina's top talents in recent times- Milito, Cambiasso, Aguero, Forlan (Uruguay, but still), and Ustari (soon to be great)- you can't be a fan of Argentinian football or their national team (or football, for that matter) and not be excited about seeing this team. They have some great young players that will be in the national mix for some time to come, and will bring a flavour of football to the grounds that we won't see again this season.

Thank you!!! someone with some sense!!
besides that list of players, how can everyone be overlooking the fact that Independiente's GK is call Fabian ASSMANN!!!!!

VPjr
05-23-2008, 02:59 PM
IF your gona bring mexico's and argentina's best atleaste invite the best!!

Pachuca Finished 3rd!
and the argentine (who are they?) Finished mid table!? 5th i think?

Pachuca has consistently been Mexico's best side for 10 years.

They have scuffled a bit in the clausura but I think they suffered a bit as a result of their heavy CONCACAF schedule in March/April.

Independiente is a very solid team. There is not a huge difference between a team rated #1 or #2 in the Argentine primera and the 5th or 6th place team. There is a lot of parity. River is the class of the league right now but they're not THAT much better than the teams below.

giambac
05-23-2008, 03:01 PM
Gambiac, you are officially slipping back into being ridiculous after having one or two good points in a previous thread. We know how the ticket system works, and to be frank it seems that either a) you like to see your own words in print or b) like to complain about everything and anything (and disguise it as 'telling it how it is'). Then again it could be both. The tickets are free, you didnt pay extra, MLSE doesnt owe us shit and they have given us two great games with great opponents. If you dont liek that maybe you should contact them and see if they will buy your tickets back.

Now it's official.
You are the dummiest guy on this forum.
I can't beleive that someone would think it is free.
You startt off by saying you know how the ticket system works, you then contradict yourself and say the tickets are free.

I guess you are a mental youth afterall. either that or you didn't go to school.

HeY I have some land for sale in the swamps of New Jersey. Are you interested. I'll give you a god price for it. Next to free.

Unbelieveable. You take the cake.

boban
05-23-2008, 03:07 PM
Nice variety.

When West Ham is the all-star showcase, they kind of have to recalibrate the prestige level of the teams.
Huh? :confused:

masrawy
05-23-2008, 03:10 PM
Both ashton Villa and Benfiaca are well known teams in the international community and demanded big $$ to come over.

:willy_nilly:

MFBODD
05-23-2008, 03:16 PM
For me the bottom line is I'd pay the same price for my tickets even if these two matches weren't included.

You want to talk about making money? $8.50 for a beer...$4 for a pop? I spend more money on beer each match than I did for my ticket!

MrHawk
05-23-2008, 03:19 PM
The teams who come here, come here after playing a long full season. Now I did not go to any of the games last year, but can anyone tell me if AV and Benfica brought their A team or Reserve team?

I mean not everyone is going to be happy with the teams who come here. If Real Madrid came here, you would have people "WTF why didn't you bring Barcelona", and same situation in reverse. It's whoever MLSE can plunk the cash for. World Club teams don't come here so they can chant OKAY BLUE JAYS in the 7th inning, or to get a piece of street meat. There are how many millions of people in there area, you can't please them all (I too would have preferred a Euro team, but perhaps next year we'll get them)

Not being happy with the friendlies is one thing, but being questioned of one's love for TFC b/c of the choice of friendlies? Eh..........too each their own.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Nice variety.

When West Ham is the all-star showcase, they kind of have to recalibrate the prestige level of the teams.

what are you talking about? independiente are a much bigger club than west ham

giambac
05-23-2008, 03:22 PM
For me the bottom line is I'd pay the same price for my tickets even if these two matches weren't included.

You want to talk about making money? $8.50 for a beer...$4 for a pop? I spend more money on beer each match than I did for my ticket!

exactly,

everything and anything MLSE is involved in is to gnerate $$.

Yet some peolple from the mental institute think that MLSE would take money out of their own pockets to bring in international teams and then give away free tickets to the games..

Why can't I meet these people when I have to make a businees deal and am trying to make a sales pitch. They are so gullible.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Now it's official.
You are the dummiest guy on this forum.
I can't beleive that someone would think it is free.
You startt off by saying you know how the ticket system works, you then contradict yourself and say the tickets are free.

I guess you are a mental youth afterall. either that or you didn't go to school.

HeY I have some land for sale in the swamps of New Jersey. Are you interested. I'll give you a god price for it. Next to free.

Unbelieveable. You take the cake.

Damn, i am the dummiest guy on the forum, thanks for pointing this out. Those spelling mistakes of yours certainly are misleading.
So what percentage of what we paid for our season tickets do you think went to the friendlies?
10%? 15%?
The correct answer is nothing.
I was being facetious (you may have to look that up in the dictionary, i didnt want to resort to personal insults but because you seem to enjoy using them so much, i thought id join in) with regards asking for a refund.
The friendlies are free with the season tickets. Unlike the canadian cup tickets which we can purchase at a discount separately.
Other people, who dont have season tickets, have to pay for them individually.

When you purchase your season tickets they come, whether you want them or not. Even if they are part of the cost (im sure MLSToronto can clear this up because its such a serious matter), do you think the cost of the season tickets will be that much cheaper?
If you look at EPL ticket holders the majority of them get 1 friendly ticket. So even if you calculate that we paid for the seasons tickets and include that one ticket in the cost, we still get a ticket for free.
I cant believe i spent this much time arguing such a useless thing let alone with someone that is up in ends about everything and anything. Your schtick is tiresome. Keep on telling it like it is guy.

werewolf
05-23-2008, 04:28 PM
what are you talking about? independiente are a much bigger club than west ham


In what sense? If you saw how much people were complaining about West Ham for the all-star game, just imagine if it was Independiente, certain people don't even want to see them play in a "free" friendly.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 04:32 PM
In what sense? If you saw how much people were complaining about West Ham for the all-star game, just imagine if it was Independiente, certain people don't even want to see them play in a "free" friendly.

in terms of history, trophies won, caliber of trophies won. look the copa libertadores is the south american equivalent of the european cup, and independiente have won it 7 times, more than anyone else.

i would even go so far as to say they are the best team to visit toronto in recent years, outside of liverpool. there are not many teams that can compete with the level of trophies that independient have won.

the people that are complaining, and would complain about independiente are, quite frankly ignorant of football outside of the EPL/europe. for people that know the game, appreciate the history, etc this is a great club and it is very exciting that they are coming to TO, friendly or not.

werewolf
05-23-2008, 04:36 PM
I am satisfied, they are certainly a great team, but they are a tier 2 team. We should be satisfied, but they aren't Barcelona. That was my initial point, if its only West Ham for the all-star showcase, how can a meaningless game against Chelsea be justified.

I would personally say West Ham and Independiente are about equal, or at least near the same.

giambac
05-23-2008, 05:05 PM
Damn, i am the dummiest guy on the forum, thanks for pointing this out. Those spelling mistakes of yours certainly are misleading.
So what percentage of what we paid for our season tickets do you think went to the friendlies?
10%? 15%?
The correct answer is nothing.
I was being facetious (you may have to look that up in the dictionary, i didnt want to resort to personal insults but because you seem to enjoy using them so much, i thought id join in) with regards asking for a refund.
The friendlies are free with the season tickets. Unlike the canadian cup tickets which we can purchase at a discount separately.
Other people, who dont have season tickets, have to pay for them individually.



When you purchase your season tickets they come, whether you want them or not. Even if they are part of the cost (im sure MLSToronto can clear this up because its such a serious matter), do you think the cost of the season tickets will be that much cheaper?
If you look at EPL ticket holders the majority of them get 1 friendly ticket. So even if you calculate that we paid for the seasons tickets and include that one ticket in the cost, we still get a ticket for free.
I cant believe i spent this much time arguing such a useless thing let alone with someone that is up in ends about everything and anything. Your schtick is tiresome. Keep on telling it like it is guy.


Listen I'm unloading my tickets for free. you can have them for free. I will personalyy delive rthem. The tickets are free.

Oh by the way I'm charging $100 for delivery. But the tickets are free. you can tell your buddies that you got a great deal the tickets are free. the tickets are free.

And the land I have for sale. Are you interested. Great price for you. I'm not looking for aprofit just want to be Generous like the MLSE and give it away next to free.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 05:13 PM
I would personally say West Ham and Independiente are about equal, or at least near the same.

on what basis??

independiente have won 14 league titles, 7 copas, 2 intercontinental cups, 2 supercopas, 1 recopa, and 3 copa intraamericana. now to a europhile this might not seem like a big deal but i can assure you this are huge deals in south america. this is the equivalent of someone winning 7 euro cups, and maybe 2 uefa cups.

west ham have won 1 european cup winners cups, and 3 fa cups.

they are no where near equal or anywhere close to being the same. please tell me on what basis you say this, because you are not talking sense.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-23-2008, 05:19 PM
Listen I'm unloading my tickets for free. you can have them for free. I will personalyy delive rthem. The tickets are free.

Oh by the way I'm charging $100 for delivery. But the tickets are free. you can tell your buddies that you got a great deal the tickets are free. the tickets are free.

And the land I have for sale. Are you interested. Great price for you. I'm not looking for aprofit just want to be Generous like the MLSE and give it away next to free.


You're a fucking IDIOT!!!:cool:

werewolf
05-23-2008, 05:27 PM
Independiente and West Ham are about the same place in their respective leagues, except West Ham play in the best league in the world. I respect Independiente's history, but they haven't won a Copa Libertaderos in 25 years. West Ham are full of international stars, and are possibly going to sign Henry. They might not have the trophies historically, but at this moment in time, I would put their prestige levels, internationally, on an equal level.

ComeonyouReds
05-23-2008, 05:38 PM
This is quite possibly the shittiest thing that could have happened. Oh wait Haifa could be one of the friendlies. How can we not have at least one truly TOP team. I know these two are close to the top in the leagues but thier leagues are shit compared to Euro leagues.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 05:41 PM
Independiente and West Ham are about the same place in their respective leagues, except West Ham play in the best league in the world. I respect Independiente's history, but they haven't won a Copa Libertaderos in 25 years. West Ham are full of international stars, and are possibly going to sign Henry. They might not have the trophies historically, but at this moment in time, I would put their prestige levels, internationally, on an equal level.

ok but west ham haven't won anything for years. and independiente have more chance of winning something again before west ham ever will. i know what you are saying, especially the marketing force behind the EPL making names more known and such like, but i think we are gonna agree to disagree on this one! :)

werewolf
05-23-2008, 05:44 PM
I didn't even get a chance to mention the marketing machine of the premier league, that goes along with prestige in the eyes of many. They are both decent teams, but the names and location of West Ham compensate for their lack of trophies.

ensco
05-23-2008, 05:56 PM
Giambac, not to pick on you, but you are getting confused about the meaning of "price" and "cost" and "value".

The price you pay for your season tickets is not really connected either the cost of providing those tickets, or the value you receive. (This is broadly speaking true for everything in life, be it eggs at the corner store, or a Ferrari, btw)

When MLSE put AV and Benfica in the season ticket package last year, they knew it was probably going to be a money loser, but they did it:

(i) to help stimulate overall and season's ticket sales, and
(ii) as an experiment, because if they had sold 6,000 tickets at an average of $100 each, they would have recouped the guarantee and learned something valuable - that they could bring "bigger-ticket" friendlies into BMO despite its small size

Guess what?

(i) it turns out they don't need friendlies of that caliber to sell the seasons tickets (sounds like maybe you're the exception, but in general, almost nobody will not renew next year over this, in their opinion)
(ii) not very many people will pay $100 to see an "Aston Villa" or a "Benfica" in a TFC friendly

(there's been no big change in the C$dollar from 2007 to 2008, fyi, and as for the guarantee market, it's ALWAYS been a big money game)

So the result is Pachuca and Independiente. Not bad, although I wish the games weren't in July. But it's got nothing to do with getting screwed by MLSE - "value" is not an absolute for everyone. They just try to predict where "value" falls for the vast majority. You're always free not to renew your seats next year.

tfctillidie
05-23-2008, 05:57 PM
The funny thing is both Independiente supporters and Pachuca supporters are probably saying.... WTF? Who's TFC? I want my money back BITCH!!!
QFT!

I don't know why most of you people are whining...we've only been around for 2 years, I don't think we earned that right to complain yet about who we want to face in friendlies...I'm curious on how we'll do against their side, incase we face this clubs in CONCACAF Champions League we will have a measuring stick

Dirk Diggler
05-23-2008, 06:00 PM
Why would Pachuca supporters care that their team is playing TFC? TFC isn't going over to their stadium to play a friendly. In fact they are making their money off of us.

werewolf
05-23-2008, 06:04 PM
^ we cared when we played at Portland.

They will especially care if one of their stars gets injured.

VPjr
05-23-2008, 06:10 PM
Independiente and West Ham are about the same place in their respective leagues, except West Ham play in the best league in the world. I respect Independiente's history, but they haven't won a Copa Libertaderos in 25 years. West Ham are full of international stars, and are possibly going to sign Henry. They might not have the trophies historically, but at this moment in time, I would put their prestige levels, internationally, on an equal level.

This argument could go on and on forever.

I'll just say this and I wont comment on this topic anymore because I doubt anyone will want to read my ramblings after digesting this one:

West Ham is a club with some history and have a well recognized name, especially in the english speaking world because of the preponderance of the British media telling us over an over again how important the EPL is. But realistically, they are a club of middling importance in the grand scheme of things in England (no offense to Hammer fans). To many people, West Ham is best known for being the club featured in that stupid hooligan moovie with Elijah wood. To say their current club is full of international "stars" is a bit of stretch. They had a star last season (an argetine by the name of Tevez) but I don't see any "stars" on the current roster...

Independiente, on the other hand, is the 3rd most famous teams in a country that is home to 2 of the most famous teams in the world. People who don't believe that River and Boca are two of the most famous teams in the world simply don't speak spanish. In the spanish speaking world (and this includes Spain), Boca and River would rank just below Barca and Real Madrid in importance (even though Boca has won way more global titles than either Barca or Real Madrid).

The problem with Argentinian soccer is the economy of the country itself. The country's economy has been garbage for 20+ years and it's had a corrosive effect on the economics of football in the country. If these clubs could afford to pay their young players the way they can be paid in Europe (partly thanks to the incredibly strong Euro), trust me, they wouldn't leave at the rate they do now. Argentine's are a bit like Italians. They don't like to stray so far from home. But the money talks and the clubs have no choice but to sell, which is a shame and affects the way the Argentine primera is judged.

Independiente consistently has developed some of the most significant names in Argentine footballing history. The list is so long that I'd just suggest checking out their Wiki page. If they could afford to keep some of the youngsters that they've been forced to sell to retire their debt, this club would have been a powerhouse still.

Who are the West Ham all time greats? Bobby Moore no doubt...Trevor Brooking for sure...Billy Bonds too. Rio Ferdinand is probably the best Hammer graduate in EPL currently but he wasn't a Hammer for very long. Its a decent list but not exactly what I'd call overwhelming.

Unfortunately, EPL fans are alot like Italian Serie A fans (who I have had to listen to all my life). They're incredibly myopic. Things that are great in the rest of the world can't really be that great if they don't happen in England (or Italy....its interchangeable).

Lets never forget that the footie is a truly global game. It doesn't belong to one country or another. There are great clubs in all corners of the world. They're just different. Hopefully one day, North America will be able to claim that they have some great clubs. I hope TFC will be one of them.

Milton_Arab
05-23-2008, 06:51 PM
^^^^ excellent post dude. you are 100% correct. and good to see someone else is familiar with the world game

Nodoubtguy
05-23-2008, 06:53 PM
ALL HAIL VPjr!!

Dirk Diggler
05-23-2008, 07:20 PM
^ we cared when we played at Portland.

They will especially care if one of their stars gets injured.

I don't know about you but I don't recall many people objecting to that friendly. Obviously it would be a different story if Portland came to play Toronto at BMO Field but that friendly in itself was fine by me. Seemed a bit pointless, yes, considering that Portland possibly could not have been paying us the big bucks in appearance fees but it was fine none the less.

And teams like Manchester United and Chelsea go off to Asia to play some no name teams because it doesn't matter who you're playing as long as you're making money. Heck, Man U went to the Middle East during the Christmas break.

Any way, in my opinion, the ideal situation would have been a Euro team plus a South American team. Benfica and Independiente would have been cool.

james
05-23-2008, 09:06 PM
i love seeing teams from all around the world play. Only thing i dont like about the friendlies is they are at a bad time on are schedule. Its right in the middle of some of are most inportant games, such as the qualifying matches for Champions League vs Montreal and Vancouver and in a busy part of are MLS season. I wish the games were more like now or even a few weeks ago like when we had 2 weeks off. Not in July.

And as for Pachuca playing, i think they are the best team in North America currently, they have proved this by winning 2 Concacaf Cups in a row, won alot of cups in the mexican league over the last few years and even won Copa Sudamericana in 2006 ( for people who dont know what that is, its like the South American version of UEFA Cup but they also let mexico teams compete in it). But i would have rather played a different team then Pachuca because we most likely be playing at some point over the years in Champions League. I would have rather played a team outside of North America who we porbably will never get to play against.

McHaggis
05-24-2008, 12:25 AM
These will likely amount to a pair of glamour 'reserve' games. TFC can't afford to put our best players on the pitch(not for long, at least) due to the density of the July schedule. Who knows what sort of squads Pachuca and Independiente will bring?
Last year, Benfica brought a weak reserve squad peppered with one or two old names and Aston Villa fielded a good number of starters... only because it was near the end of their pre-season. The results reflected the sort of squads that they brought over. A full-strength Benfica would have annihilated a first-year TFC not tie 0-0.
Take these friendlies for what they are...just friendlies. Go watch some TFC players you don't normally get to see. Seize the opportunity to go to the merchandise stand and not have to line up. It's never bad spending an evening at BMO field.

VPjr
05-24-2008, 01:03 AM
this isn't related to TFC's friendlies but its interesting and relevant:

Sorry that I missed this, but Real Madrid has bailed on their exhibition in Salt Lake City later this summer for financial reasons (the US Dollar is so weak that it's not worth their time.)
- from Du Nord Blog

tfc007
05-24-2008, 06:30 AM
Sure I would like to of seen a major football club,but Pachuca and indipendiente if i spelled it correct are pretty good attractions.Remember the euros are in june and alot of the top players are playing for their countrys and then they go on holidays.If a big club came here especially in the first couple of weeks of july it would be a watered down roster anyway.I dont think seeing these clubs are that bad.The games might be very enjoyable!you never know.

sidvan
05-24-2008, 08:03 AM
this isn't related to TFC's friendlies but its interesting and relevant:

Sorry that I missed this, but Real Madrid has bailed on their exhibition in Salt Lake City later this summer for financial reasons (the US Dollar is so weak that it's not worth their time.)
- from Du Nord Blog

Just finished reading in the latest Soccer360 that Real madrid are in financial difficulty and had to go to the banks recently with hat in hand looking for a loan for operating capital. Can't imagine that playing this game would have been a money losing proposition but you never know.