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deeznutz
11-26-2008, 12:51 PM
Are there any links on this live???

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 12:58 PM
If there is anything it'd be on the MLS site. but really, there's no point in having anything live. Seattle just basically has to submit a list 10 players at 1 pm. It's an instant event, not one with any duration.

Oldtimer
11-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Are there any links on this live???

It's a 5 minute phone call, it doesn't get covered live.
They'll post the results on mlsnet afterwards.

Oblio2
11-26-2008, 01:00 PM
Bahh.....boring

Oblio2
11-26-2008, 01:03 PM
MLS Expansion Draft Rules


Senior Roster
Teams may protect 11 players between their Senior and their Developmental Roster. If the Player's contract expires at the end of 2008, he will still be considered part of the team's Senior Roster. If a team protects a player, it is not obligated to exercise the player's option. The team may renegotiate a new budget number for the player as in previous years. If a player retires, he will not be a part of the Senior Roster, but his team will lose its right of first refusal to him should he ultimately decide to play.
Developmental Roster
Players on a team's Developmental Roster, other than Generation adidas players who have not been graduated at the end of the 2008 season, may be left unprotected and are eligible may be selected by Seattle in the expansion draft. Generation adidas players who have not been graduated at the end of the 2008 season are automatically protected (teams do not have to protect them). If Seattle Sounders FC select a Developmental Player they must offer him a Senior Roster position and he must be on Seattle's Senior Roster as of Roster Compliance Date.
International Players
Teams are restricted in the number of international player(s) that they may make available per the table set forth below. For purposes of this expansion process, for U.S.-based teams, any non-domestic U.S. player would count as an International and for Toronto FC, any non-domestic U.S. player or non-domestic Canadian player would count as an International.
Designated Players
Designated Players do not have to be protected unless the player has a no trade clause in which case he must be protected.
Maximum Player Loss
Once a player has been claimed from a team's non-protected roster, that team is eliminated from the expansion draft and may not lose any further players.
Right to Renegotiate
Seattle will have the right to renegotiate a drafted player's salary (either up or down) without having to place such player on waivers or giving his previous Team a right of first refusal.
Priority
On the first day of the Discovery/Allocation Period, Seattle will have priority over players who played professionally in the USL First or Second Division in 2008, subject to another MLS team's right of first refusal.
Rounds
The expansion draft will be 10 rounds.
INTERNATIONAL PLAYER PROTECTION REQUIREMENT


Teams may make available a number of international players equal to their total number of international players minus 3, provided that if a team has 3 or less international players it may make available not more than 1.
COMPLETE LIST OF AVAILABLE PLAYERS FOR WEDNESDAY'S DRAFT


Chivas USA
Chiles, Kraig
Curtin, Jim
Ebert, Eric
Ferreira, Dejair
Flores, Jorge
Hamilton, Anthony
Kennedy, Dan
Mayen, Gerson
Nurse, Roberto
Paladini, Daniel
Parker, Lance
Razov, Ante
Savage, Keith
Suarez, Claudio
Talley, Carey
Thornton, Zach
Vaughn, Lawson
Victorine, Sasha
Wicky, Raphael
Zotinca, Alex
Chicago Fire
Banner, Michael
Brown, C.J.
Carr, Calen
Frankowski, Tomasz
Herron, Andy
Kasiguran, Kai
Kettering, Tyler
King, Stephen
Lowry, Peter
Marmol, Lider
Noble, Nick
Pappa, Marco Pablo
Prideaux, Brandon
Washington, Austin
Woolard, Daniel
Colorado Rapids
Burciaga, Jose
Burpo, Preston
Cooke, Terry
Dalby, Greg
DiRaimondo, John
Erpen, Facundo
Grazier, Brian
Harvey, Jordan
Hughes, Justin
Keel, Stephen
Kimura, Kosuke
McManus, Tom
Petke, Mike
Sarkodie, Kwame
Ward, Tim
Zambrano, Cesar
Columbus Crew
Burns, Kevin
Elenio, Cory
Evans, Brad
Garey, Jason
Gaven, Eddie
Gruenebaum, Andy
Josten, George
Junge, Ryan
Lenhart, Steven
Miglioranzi, Stefani
Moffat, Adam
Noonan, Pat
Nyazamba, Stanley
Oughton, Duncan
Peterson, Andrew
Pierre-Louis, Ricardo
Plotkin, Brian
Schoeni, Kenny
FC Dallas
Burse, Ray
Daniels, Andrew
Davino, Duilio
Dello-Russo, Michael
Pitchkolan, Aaron
Rowland, Jeff
Sikora, Victor
Wadsworth, Spencer
Wagenfuhr, David
Watson, Jamie
Wileman, Chase
D.C. United
Carroll, Jeff
Carroll, Pat
Cordeiro, Ryan
Crayton, Louis
Doe, Francis
Dyachenko, Rod
Gallardo, Marcelo
Kirk, Quavas
Koroma, Ibrahim
Martinez, Gonzalo
Mediate, Domenic
Miller, Ryan
Olsen, Ben
Peralta, Gonzalo
Thompson, Craig
Thorpe, James
Vide, Joseph
Wells, Zach
Zaher, Michael
Houston Dynamo
Alcaraz, Johnny
Ashe, Corey
Barrett, Wade
Brown, Kyle
Caig, Tony
Chabala, Michael
Hatzke, Nick
Hayden, John Michael
Ianni, Patrick
Jaqua, Nate
Mulrooney, Richard
Onstad, Pat
Ustruck, Erik
Waibel, Craig
Waller, Corbin
Wondolowski, Chris
Wondolowski, Stephen

Kansas City Wizards
Hartman, Kevin
Hohlbein, Aaron
Kraus, Michael
Kronberg, Eric
Marquess, Matt
McKenzie, Rauwshan
Morsink, Kurt
Pardo, Boris
Pizarro, Nelson
Pore, Ryan
Thompson, Abe
Trujillo, Ivan
Wahl, Tyson
Watson, Lance
Los Angeles Galaxy
Adzemian, Vardan
Alamo, Charles
Allen, Ely
Barlow, Jeremy
Cronin, Steve
Dominguez, Eduardo
Franchino, Joe
Gavin, Michael
Kirovski, Jovan
Klein, Chris
Munoz, Mike
Randolph, Michael
Saunders, Josh
Tudela, Josh
Vagenas, Peter
Valentin, Julian
Wicks, Josh

New England Revolution
Angulo, Jose
Badilla, Gabriel
Brill, Samuel
Flood, Gary
Germanese, Joe
Knighton, Brad
Manzonelli, Brandon
Matamoros, Mauricio
Phelan, Pat
Smith, Khano
Thompson, Wells
Tierney, Chris
Tyler, Brandon
Warren, Doug
Zapata, Argenis Fernandez
New York Red Bulls
Boss, Terry
Boyens, Andrew
Cichero, Gabriel
Borman, Danleigh
Echeverry, Oscar
Gilkerson, John
Jimenez, Diego
Kljestan, Gordon
Leitch, Chris
Magee, Mike
Mbuta, Andongcho
Mendes, Carlos
Palacio, Michael
Parke, Jeff
Patterson, Caleb
Pietravallo, Juan
Roth, David
Touray, Sainey
Wolyniec, John
Real Salt Lake
Besagno, Nik
Cutler, Kenny
Deuchar, Kenneth
Horst, David
Joy, Ian
Kirby, Dustin
Kovalenko, Dema
Mathis, Clint
Nunez, Tino
Reiman, Kevin
Reynish, Kyle
Sturgis, Nathan
Tennelle, Brennan
Williams, Andy
San Jose Earthquakes
Arce, Miguel
Ayres, Jay Michael
Cunliffe, John
Denton, Eric
Ghebru, Michael
Glinton, Gavin
Grabavoy, Ned
Gray, Kelly
Gustavson, Michael
Hatzke, Matt
O'Brien, Ronnie
Riley, James
Roberts, Jamil
Smarte, Adam
Somma, Davide Toronto FC
Attakora-Gyan, Nana
Elkinson, Kilian
Freeman, Hunter
Gala, Gabe
Gaudet, Derek
Melo, Joey
Ricketts, Rohan
Rosenlund, Tyler
Ruiz, Carlos
Smith, Jarrod
Smith, Johann
Sutton, Greg
Velez, Marco

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:06 PM
http://www.soundersfc.com/ says they will have the list up at noon PST........3pm here, right??

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:08 PM
yep, im sure we will have it sooner

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:18 PM
yep, im sure we will have it sooner

Yes, but I'm still itching to find out how this plays out. Sooner isn't soon enough! :D

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:19 PM
Ives predicts.....


NATE JAQUA (Houston Dynamo)
League sources have told SBI that this one is a done deal and Jaqua will be going to Seattle. A good target striker who could benefit from playing alongside Ljungberg and LeToux, Jaqua also has ties to the Pacific Northwest as an Oregon native.
BRAD EVANS (Columbus Crew)
If Schmid is providing input into this selection then look for Evans to get the nod. Evans was a real revelation for the Crew this past season and his modest salary makes him even more appealing to a Seattle team already carrying Freddie Ljungberg's designated player slot. Eddie Gaven seems like an enticing pick as well, but Evans makes a fraction of Gaven's salary and there are other wing options for Seattle.
BRANDON PRIDEAUX (Chicago Fire)
You can never have too many solid veteran defenders and Prideaux proved to be that for the Fire in 2008. Yes, he is 32, but he can step right in and start at right back. It also doesn't hurt that he's a Washingto native. Seattle could also look toward central defender C.J. Brown or forward Calen Carr, especially if it chooses to grab another right back like Lawson Vaughn or Chris Leitch.
MICHAEL RANDOLPH (Los Angeles Galaxy)
Seattle wants players who have shown an ability to start in MLS, but who make modest wages. Randolph qualifies and could give Seattle a quality young left back prospect. He also has past ties to the Pacific Northwest, having played for the Portland Timbers.
JOHANN SMITH (Toronto FC)
You can't teach speed and Seattle could very well turn to arguably the fastest player in MLS by grabbing Smith, a left winger with plenty of promise. Even if Seattle wouldn't plan on keeping Smith, there is certainly interest in the former U.S. Under-20 player from other teams in MLS.
JORGE FLORES (Chivas USA)
With Sanna Nyassi and Johann Smith on board, it wouldn't seem to make much sense to pick-up Flores, despite the great promise he showed last season, but this would be a pick for a trade. If the Sounders weren't looking to deal Flores, then it could turn to veteran striker Ante Razov, who played collegiately for Schmid, though his price tag might be an issue.
KEVIN HARTMAN (Kansas City)
With Kasey Keller signed, and USL standout Chris Eylander set to become his understudy, the last thing Seattle needs is goalkeeping. Right? Well, this is true, but goalkeeper is fast becoming a thin position in MLS and Seattle will find no shortage of takers for Hartman, one of the league's best veteran goalkeepers. In fact, if you package Flores and Hartman, Seattle just might have the makings of a package to acquire Cuban striker Maykel Galindo from Chivas USA. Galindo played for the USL Sounders before moving to MLS. Now, if Seattle decides against trying to grab Hartman for a trade, the Sounders could certainly look to young defender Tyson Wahl, who impressed this year.
PAT PHELAN (New England)
Young, talented, versatile and cheap. Those are four qualities Seattle wants to find in at least some of its expansion draft picks and Phelan fits all of those categories. Capable of playing in central defense or as a defensive midfielder, Phelan could certainly challenge for a starting role in 2009.
MIKE PETKE (Colorado Rapids)
Finding a veteran centerback to lead the back-line is always important for an expansion team and Petke fits that bill. He turns 33 in January but has been the picture of reliability throughout his career. Before last season, when he was sidelined due to foot surgery, Petke had played in at least 24 games for 10 straight seasons. A smart and physical player who is also capable of heading home the occasional goal, Petke is also out of contract and might be able to be had for a reasonable price.
NATHAN STURGIS (Real Salt Lake)
Before injuries derailed his young career, Sturgis was regarded as a future star. The former U.S. Under-23 player has struggled for two years to stay healthy but just might be a gamble worth taking for Seattle. If the Sounders he isn't worth the risk, don't be surprised to see Seattle grab young and inexpensive midfielder Joe Vide (D.C. United), who impressed as a defensive midfielder late in 2008.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:20 PM
Yes, but I'm still itching to find out how this plays out. Sooner isn't soon enough! :D

HAHAHAHA
i hear that.
KEEP SCOWERING FOR ANSWERS MEN!

mlsintoronto
11-26-2008, 01:23 PM
we lost .... someone...

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 01:24 PM
just tell us dude....

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:24 PM
we lost .... someone...

Elaborate.

justin
11-26-2008, 01:25 PM
we lost .... someone...

that's just cruel

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 01:27 PM
well at least we'll have some real news in the next few weeks. Nice to have something tangible to talk about.

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:29 PM
we lost .... someone...

Paul....thats just cold.....we need info!!!
I swear if its someone like Jo Smith or RR.....sad day!!! Please say they took Ruiz!!!

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 01:29 PM
It's a 5 minute phone call, it doesn't get covered live.
They'll post the results on mlsnet afterwards.
The MLS site says it will be 10 draft "rounds".

Does that mean they take a break after each selection for some "wheeling and dealin"?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:30 PM
Itll be JoSmith for certain.
If its RR hes prob heading back to Europe, i really dont see him going to Seattle

justin
11-26-2008, 01:30 PM
Paul....thats just cold.....we need info!!!
I swear if its someone like Jo Smith or RR.....sad day!!! Please say they took Ruiz!!!

he said we lost someone, and since ruiz is a nobody, they obviously didn't pick him :P

Just TFC
11-26-2008, 01:32 PM
we probably lost Johann.. that's too bad.. I thought he could develop into a good bench player for the left wing.. since we really have no one else.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:32 PM
The MLS site says it will be 10 draft "rounds".

Does that mean they take a break after each selection for some "wheeling and dealin"?

I don't see why they would: they're the only ones participating so most deals would likely be agreed upon (in principle, since rosters are frozen until after the draft) before any list was to be submitted.

But you're right: "rounds" is an ambiguous word in this context.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:34 PM
Itll be JoSmith for certain.



we probably lost Johann.. that's too bad.. I thought he could develop into a good bench player for the left wing.. since we really have no one else.

et al.

Funny. I think for the first time in history, I think we have a consensus on something.

Oh wait, Cunny sucks.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:35 PM
I have news:

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/11/ougoing-ruiz-and-marco-pappa-to-seattle.html

Carlos Ruiz?

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:37 PM
I have news:

http://www.mls-rumors.net

Carlos Ruiz?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:37 PM
et al.

Funny. I think for the first time in history, I think we have a consensus on something.

Oh wait, Cunny sucks.

HAHAHA
im sure theres something else as well.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:38 PM
WOw, i think it may be true too cuz Schmid (who may be going to seattle) found Ruiz who had a couple of great years under him. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BE TRUE
FUCK OFF RUIZ!

Reg_Sims
11-26-2008, 01:38 PM
I heard Seattle wanted Bitchy the hawk?

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:38 PM
I have news:

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/11/ougoing-ruiz-and-marco-pappa-to-seattle.html

Carlos Ruiz?

hahahahaha!!!! I can't stop laughing.

Flashman
11-26-2008, 01:38 PM
I have news:

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/11/ougoing-ruiz-and-marco-pappa-to-seattle.html

Carlos Ruiz?

Wow, that is good news!! Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite us:)

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:39 PM
Wow, that is good news!! Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite us:)

Well...to be honest, it's a good rumour.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:39 PM
Don't think it would come back to bite us b/c we only have up supplementary picks to acquire him.

nascarguy
11-26-2008, 01:39 PM
the list will not be out in till noon pst so we got to wait in till 3pm est to find out who goes.

Just TFC
11-26-2008, 01:40 PM
et al.

Funny. I think for the first time in history, I think we have a consensus on something.

Oh wait, Cunny sucks.


lol doesn't happen too often that the board agrees on things.
lol i think we ALL agree Cunny sucks, and his goals in Dallas were pretty much tap-ins or shoddy goal keeping.

and if Seattle really picked Ruiz.. then thank God, cuz he was taking up a HUGE salary, and he really didn't produce for the short while he was here. plus, he spilled our precious gatorade in San Jose.. and we all know we can't accept gatorade spillers. :p

justin
11-26-2008, 01:40 PM
im not counting on it, but that would be fucking awesome if they picked ruiz

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:42 PM
MLSR has more info..........Houston's GK Corbin Walker gone.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:42 PM
im sure he'd take a cut as he'd be playing under schmid and isnt worth his 400k
dont know that i believe hes gone tho
FINGERS CROSSED

deeznutz
11-26-2008, 01:43 PM
can't he just die?

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:45 PM
can't he just die?

No because Seattle won't pick a corpse in the draft. We need alive bodies to lower the odds of us losing Ricketts or Smith. :D

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:45 PM
MLSR has more info..........Houston's GK Corbin Walker gone.

As in, took in the draft gone? I've refreshed MLSR a ton and it's not showing.

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:45 PM
This is the mlsrumors posting.....



http://www.rojomania.com/splashpage.jpg

An english translation of the above is:


Carlos Ruiz and Marco Pappa Will Go Today in The Major League Soccer Expansion Draft after Toronto and the Fire left them:

Unprotected!
Ruiz looks Creepy!!!

deeznutz
11-26-2008, 01:46 PM
No because Seattle won't pick a corpse in the draft. We need alive bodies to lower the odds of us losing Ricketts or Smith.


Can he die after he leaves?

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:46 PM
As in, took in the draft gone? I've refreshed MLSR a ton and it's not showing.

the twitter blog on the right hand side.

Reg_Sims
11-26-2008, 01:50 PM
As in, took in the draft gone? I've refreshed MLSR a ton and it's not showing.

I believe Waller is going to be sent back to Houston and Jaqua and a draft pick will be sent to Seattle...

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:50 PM
Can he die after he leaves?

Then yes.

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Are you kidding me? They took Ruiz? :D Nice.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
the twitter blog on the right hand side.

I figured, the server here at work blocks certain things, one of which is the twitter function on MLSR.

Strikers
11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
I have a feeling that Seattle will be taking Velez from us.

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Are you kidding me? They took Ruiz? :D Nice.

Noone said it's for sure though right?

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Are you kidding me? They took Ruiz? :D Nice.
Unsubstantiated rumour.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:52 PM
http://assets1.twitter.com/images/twitter_logo_s.png (http://www.twitter.com/mlsrumors)

All hell is breaking out in houston. As many as 4 players could be leaving. Story to follow soon on www.mls-rumors.net less than a minute ago (http://twitter.com/mlsrumors/statuses/1025020001)

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:52 PM
I believe Waller is going to be sent back to Houston and Jaqua and a draft pick will be sent to Seattle...

That seems like a horribly unfair deal for Houston...

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 01:53 PM
Unsubstantiated rumour.

Correct, but my day has gone from shat to awesome in the moment it took me to read that 'rumour'. :D

mlsintoronto
11-26-2008, 01:53 PM
not ruiz. you won't be able to guess....

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:54 PM
Is MLSR becoming more reliable for info......hahaha!!!

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:54 PM
not ruiz. you won't be able to guess....

interesting........

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 01:54 PM
not ruiz. you won't be able to guess....

One of these players :lol:

Attakora-Gyan, Nana
Elkinson, Kilian
Freeman, Hunter
Gala, Gabe
Gaudet, Derek
Melo, Joey
Ricketts, Rohan
Rosenlund, Tyler
Ruiz, Carlos
Smith, Jarrod
Smith, Johann
Sutton, Greg
Velez, Marco

mlsintoronto
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
parkdale...did I ever give you that scarf? I have a brand new black MLS Cup 2007 toque for the first correct guess.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
not ruiz. you won't be able to guess....

That sounds like it's going to hurt AND be unexpected. Holy shit, it's Sutton isn't it?

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
perhaps they took someone and then we traded someone else for them back and that's why we can't guess?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Really?
one of our canadians?
Cuz if we wont be able to guess it would nix Ricketts and Smith

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Sutton

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 01:56 PM
seriously? Then i guess jarrod smith

Steve
11-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Definitely Kilian Elkinson. I don't know why we didn't think of that before.

Strikers
11-26-2008, 01:56 PM
not ruiz. you won't be able to guess....



I'll have a educated guess and say they did the unexpected and took
either Greg Sutton or Tyler Rosenlund

Damien
11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
Maybe Nana?

Frick
11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
Marco Velez

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
Jarod Smith?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
That sounds like it's going to hurt AND be unexpected. Holy shit, it's Sutton isn't it?

yeah, i dont like the sounds of this

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
http://assets1.twitter.com/images/twitter_logo_s.png (http://www.twitter.com/mlsrumors)

All hell is breaking out in houston. As many as 4 players could be leaving. Story to follow soon on www.mls-rumors.net (http://www.mls-rumors.net) less than a minute ago (http://twitter.com/mlsrumors/statuses/1025020001)





There's alot of talk still
inside the office about RICARDO CLARK going to Europe, Bobby Boswell had an offer from Europe but he wants to stay and the Dynamo are getting rid of Patrick Ianni who makes more than 100,000 per year, so with Ianni out and possibly going to a team in California, the Dynamo are willing to give a good salary increase to Boswell, he is 3rd on the list for defenders that might leave to Europe.


Coach [Kinnear] really likes De Rosario
and Ching, they pretty much do whatever they want during practice, show up late, train or no train, etc… there's too much freedom for those two, but… De Rosario has said a couple of times that he wants to go back home and play for his home team, he is liked over there. But there is no one in Toronto that the Dynamo are willing to take in exchange, so there's still a doubt in that one.


Stuart Holden just came back from Europe, he had surgery in Germany, he is looking at some options as well, all his GENERATION ADIDAS teammates are already starters for their teams, except for him, and it seems that sending away De Rosario and bringing Stuart Holden to the first team would open a possibility of getting an International striker. Some of this negotiations are very well advanced, it's crazy down here, with so many things going on its hard to keep things quiet, like the SUPERCLASICO being played here in Houston on
FEBRUARY 3 between AMERICA and CHIVAS MEXICO, still the venue is undecided either Robertson Stadium or Reliant Stadium.


interesting

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 01:58 PM
Holy shit, it's Sutton isn't it?

and trade us back for someone else...Ruiz? :lol:

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 01:58 PM
Joey Melo

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 01:58 PM
and trade us back for someone else...Ruiz? :lol:

we'll even throw in Velez.

Stryker
11-26-2008, 01:59 PM
Hopefully its Freeman and he ll pop one into his own again when we play Seattle.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 01:59 PM
perhaps they took someone and then we traded someone else for them back and that's why we can't guess?

If that were true, then it stand to reason the exposed player was valued more by Mo than the protected one. That wouldn't make much sense...

Steve
11-26-2008, 01:59 PM
Sutton

Hmm, how many keepers were exposed in the draft? Maybe every team thought Seattle was good for keepers, and Seattle decided to try to corner the market...

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:00 PM
doubt it's Sutton......they had Keller, a backup.....and possibly already selected a GK from Houston.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:01 PM
http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/default.aspx
Interesting speculation with regards to trades

Strikers
11-26-2008, 02:01 PM
Definitely Kilian Elkinson. I don't know why we didn't think of that before.




He would be my third guess after Sutton & Rosenland. When I say him
play for the reserves he was outstanding.

lintberg
11-26-2008, 02:01 PM
One of these players :lol:

Attakora-Gyan, Nana
Elkinson, Kilian
Freeman, Hunter
Gala, Gabe
Gaudet, Derek
Melo, Joey
Ricketts, Rohan
Rosenlund, Tyler
Ruiz, Carlos
Smith, Jarrod
Smith, Johann
Sutton, Greg
Velez, Marco



Gabe Gala

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
so they take sutton and then we trade them JJ or Tyrone for him perhaps....this is wild speculation of course...chances of it being true are basically nil

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
Hopefully its Freeman and he ll pop one into his own again when we play Seattle.


freeman is playing in Europe so that wont happen!!

Jay P
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
Tyler ? :(

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
doubt it's Sutton......they had Keller, a backup.....and possibly already selected a GK from Houston.

More like a shot in the dark since it sounds like it's going to be unexpected. In rational analysis though, I still think it'll be Johann Smith... I hope I'm wrong though...

mlsintoronto
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
well done Hbomb...thats a pretty good guess. oh wait...did you say JARROD?

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
Gaudet??

Paull....I know your still in the thread....INFO!!!!

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
parkdale...did I ever give you that scarf? I have a brand new black MLS Cup 2007 toque for the first correct guess.
OK... I'll bite....
They took Danny D. didn't they?

just to piss us off! :mad:

Reg_Sims
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
That seems like a horribly unfair deal for Houston...

Houston will have Seattle pick a player for them and will come with Waller. My apologies...
rumour would be Jaqua and pick to Seattle to Houston, Waller back and someone they want that is available...

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
Hmm, how many keepers were exposed in the draft? Maybe every team thought Seattle was good for keepers, and Seattle decided to try to corner the market...

I've had a strong feeling someone would lose a keeper, if only to be traded back. I figured Hartman would be the one gone though.

GabrielHurl
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
parkdale...did I ever give you that scarf? I have a brand new black MLS Cup 2007 toque for the first correct guess.

I'd rather have the 2008 hat

and they took Velez :cool:

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:04 PM
i did say jarrod...

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:04 PM
well done Hbomb...thats a pretty good guess. oh wait...did you say JARROD?

They took Sutton and traded him back for Jarrod Smith??

Stryker
11-26-2008, 02:05 PM
freeman is playing in Europe so that wont happen!!

Not sure why though, I wasnt impressed at all with him.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:05 PM
What probably happened, they put down J.Smith on their list of 10. When Garber asked, do you mean Jarrod Smith, without knowing, they said, yeah him.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:06 PM
What probably happened, they put down J.Smith on their list of 10. When Garber asked, do you mean Jarrod Smith, without knowing, they said, yeah him.

Hahahaha, EPIC FAIL if that were true.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:06 PM
Here is the list of players chosen by Seattle:


Nate Jaqua (Houston)
Brad Evans (Columbus)
Stephen King (Chicago)
Jeff Parke (New York
James Riley (San Jose)
Khano Smith (New England)
Jarrod Smith (Toronto FC)
Nathan Sturgis (Real Salt Lake)
Peter Vagenas (Los Angeles)
Tyson Wahl (Kansas City)
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/11/jaqua-leads-seattles-10-expansion-draft-picks.html

Ryan1984
11-26-2008, 02:07 PM
Jarrod Smith

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:07 PM
Here is the list of players chosen by Seattle:


Nate Jaqua (Houston)
Brad Evans (Columbus)
Stephen King (Chicago)
Jeff Parke (New York
James Riley (San Jose)
Khano Smith (New England)
Jarrod Smith (Toronto FC)
Nathan Sturgis (Real Salt Lake)
Peter Vagenas (Los Angeles)
Tyson Wahl (Kansas City)


What? Really?

deeznutz
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
linky or stinky

rocker
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
JARROD??????? hahahahah.. huhuhuhh?????

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
Pictures or it never happened!!

If they took Jarrod I wouldn't be concerned....he barely ever played and well when he did play he wasn't that good to be honest...

CretanBull
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
^ some odd picks there, but I can live without Jarrod Smith....

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/11/jaqua-leads-seattles-10-expansion-draft-picks.html

jabbronies
11-26-2008, 02:08 PM
tyler rosenland is my answer

Stryker
11-26-2008, 02:10 PM
They took Jarrod...ahahahaha suckers. Seattle needs to fire their scout already.

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:11 PM
I'm A Winner Today!!

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:11 PM
no way.
Get out.
Jarrod?

rocker
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
here people are all worried about sutton and ricketts and johan and gala and attakora and rosenlund..... and they pick jarrod.

there must be some side deal going on there with TFC and Seattle.

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
Doesn't make sense...does it?

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/11/jaqua-leads-seattles-10-expansion-draft-picks.html

I can't access the site from my work. You're saying that's the source of your earlier list you posted in the thread?

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
This is good for us...Good luck to him and we kept the pieces we wanted to keep. works out well for everyone. They also took vaginas...who has a funny name

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
no way.
Get out.
Jarrod?

They must of screwed up names or something...haha

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:12 PM
So Happy!!!

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
Well we avoid disaster if they took Ricketts....

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
Decent outcome for us. The only picks that threw me for a loop where these really.

Peter Vagenas (Los Angeles)
Tyson Wahl (Kansas City)

I mean, Jarrod Smith isn't terrible. He's been a utility player for us, but he's never had a proper crack at first team time in one dedicated position. I can see him doing well there if they give him some time.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
I can't access the site from my work. You're saying that's the source of your earlier list you posted in the thread?

Yes, I forgot to post the link on the orginal post, so I had to edit it again.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
gotta be a mistake somewhere.
im sure of it.

rocker
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
how about Mo worked a deal with Seattle to pick Jarrod in exchange for some future deal?

that's my theory.

deschamp86
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
They definitely must have thought that Jarrod was Johann. Unless Ives messed up.

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 02:13 PM
Just because they took a player doesn't mean they have any intention of keeping them. Lots of side deals possible in all this.

Steve
11-26-2008, 02:14 PM
Umm, what? I was kind of hoping we would just cut him (waste of an international spot) but yeah, you guys have fun with him. If they put down the wrong name, I'd pay to be there on the first day of practice. Expecting a fast black dude and you get a terrible kiwi instead? Oops.

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:14 PM
I wonder if there is any trades being worked out now either???

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:14 PM
I mean, Jarrod Smith isn't terrible. He's been a utility player for us, but he's never had a proper crack at first team time in one dedicated position. I can see him doing well there if they give him some time.

was thinking htis too

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:15 PM
Decent outcome for us. The only picks that threw me for a loop where these really.

Peter Vagenas (Los Angeles)
Tyson Wahl (Kansas City)
.

From IVES

Those of you wondering if the list would have a Sigi Schmid imprint on it need look no further than to the inclusion of Vagenas, who played for Schmid with the Galaxy (and UCLA) so many years ago

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:16 PM
I wonder if there is any trades being worked out now either???

I would put $100 down right now that there will be trades up and coming. Whether or not we're included is another thing.


was thinking htis too

He's showed promise. Too many players get over criticized here, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him do well there.

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm gonna hold you to your word Paul....as you being such a gentleman will of course not go back on your word!:D

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:16 PM
From IVES

Those of you wondering if the list would have a Sigi Schmid imprint on it need look no further than to the inclusion of Vagenas, who played for Schmid with the Galaxy (and UCLA) so many years ago

And the peices start to fall into place...

jabbronies
11-26-2008, 02:16 PM
he's still young. and is an international. and can light the fire sometimes. why not Jarrod

profit89
11-26-2008, 02:17 PM
Bye bye Jarrod Smith

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:17 PM
he's still young. and is an international. and can light the fire sometimes. why not Jarrod


Exactly. He's a promising young Int'l player with some speed, some skill and he's got decent ability in the air.

Steve
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
He's showed promise. Too many players get over criticized here, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him do well there.

He showed some promise at the start, but really just didn't live up to it here. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery, and I wish him the best. That being said, I think people (including myself) are just so happy to have avoided losing players that are in future TFC plans (we have Barrett and DD at striker, are developing Ibby, and everyone wants a DP striker, so he wasn't going to get playing time), we overstate how bad Jarrod is.

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
Interesting... Jarrod Smith is the TFC player pictured on the tfc website next to the announcement of the eligible players...
Conspiracy theorists... let er fly!

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
wow...just noticed 200 users online....

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Id like to see JaSmith do well too.
Dont mind seeing hte back of him tho.
HAHAHAHAHA
Looking forward to seeing what else is going to go on

Strikers
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
I'm think that there is a possible side deal here. Seattle picks Jarrod from us, they also pick Parke from the dead bulls, we then trade Marshall for Parke.

jloome
11-26-2008, 02:19 PM
They probably picked him for his flexibility as both a wide man and a target forward.

HAAHHAHAHAHAHHa

Sorry, I can't help it. They could've taken Johann Smith and instead they took Jarrod Smith. HAHHHAHHAHAHAHA, shit, now coffee's coming out of my nose.

Seriously, people:this is the best fucking news we could've gotten out of this short of them taking Fat Boy.

jabbronies
11-26-2008, 02:19 PM
Interesting... Jarrod Smith is the TFC player pictured on the tfc website next to the announcement of the eligible players...
Conspiracy theorists... let er fly!

The web guys know all......they know ALL!!!!!

rocker
11-26-2008, 02:19 PM
it's not that jarrod is the worst player, but that he's far down the list of skill of the players TFC made available.
i wouldn't be surprised to see MO send some allocation money to Seattle soon for this favour... musta been planned in advance with seattle.

Stryker
11-26-2008, 02:21 PM
Jarrod was great and worked his arse off for us...


then the thrill of playing in an actual game wore off.

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:22 PM
I'm think that there is a possible side deal here. Seattle picks Jarrod from us, they also pick Parke from the dead bulls, we then trade Marshall for Parke.

I was thinking the same thing....

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:22 PM
it's not that jarrod is the worst player, but that he's far down the list of skill of the players TFC made available.
i wouldn't be surprised to see MO send some allocation money to Seattle soon for this favour.

A gentleman's agreement then? As in, please don't pick these players from our unprotected list and we'll give you $ allocation money/a pick, etc...

Sounds plausible.

Steve
11-26-2008, 02:23 PM
it's not that jarrod is the worst player, but that he's far down the list of skill of the players TFC made available.
i wouldn't be surprised to see MO send some allocation money to Seattle soon for this favour.

it's quite possible (or a low draft pick since we can't use them anyway). Honestly, say what you want about Mo's ability to bring in established talent (I agree, he's not a superstar) but I don't think anyone plays the MLS game like Mo. He was really the first one to use the expansion draft to build assets rather than collect players (after which teams had to adjust their strategy), he plays MLS politics like he was born to it, and he's pretty solid at drafting. What we really need now is someone to work with Mo as an international scout. Let Mo handle the MLS, and he can go handle the rest of the world.

Stryker
11-26-2008, 02:24 PM
I don't think anyone plays the MLS game like Mo. He was really the first one to use the expansion draft to build assets rather than collect players (after which teams had to adjust their strategy), he plays MLS politics like he was born to it, and he's pretty solid at drafting. What we really need now is someone to work with Mo as an international scout. Let Mo handle the MLS, and he can go handle the rest of the world.

Well said.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:25 PM
illegal in every league i can think of...though MLS is mickey mouse, so it's possible

Mo buys the pints when Seattle visits Toronto, that was the side deal.

Parkdale
11-26-2008, 02:25 PM
parkdale...did I ever give you that scarf? I have a brand new black MLS Cup 2007 toque for the first correct guess.

yes, and I gave it to Alan Frew. It's in the My Town video.

justin
11-26-2008, 02:26 PM
gotta be something else up here...too good to be true.

there are currently 89 people viewing this thread lol

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:26 PM
illegal in every league i can think of...though MLS is mickey mouse, so it's possible

I know it's been done before actually. I think it involved TFC and FC Dallas during our expansion draft. I forget what the specifics were though.

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:26 PM
^ Completely agree as well.

rocker
11-26-2008, 02:26 PM
how is it illegal? raps did it with vince carter in the draft. they had another team draft him and shortly after he was a rap.

nothing mickey mouse about pre-draft talk with another team.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:27 PM
Gotta agree with the above comment.
Mo is definitely shrewd as far as drafting in any manner is concerned dude runs shit

Broadview
11-26-2008, 02:28 PM
The title for worst haircut on the TFC squad is once again up for grabs.

I'm nominating Brian Edwards, though I can't find a pic to post that does that mane any justice.

Any other contenders?

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:28 PM
Confirmed by Goff:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:29 PM
it's quite possible (or a low draft pick since we can't use them anyway). Honestly, say what you want about Mo's ability to bring in established talent (I agree, he's not a superstar) but I don't think anyone plays the MLS game like Mo. He was really the first one to use the expansion draft to build assets rather than collect players (after which teams had to adjust their strategy), he plays MLS politics like he was born to it, and he's pretty solid at drafting. What we really need now is someone to work with Mo as an international scout. Let Mo handle the MLS, and he can go handle the rest of the world.


I said the same thing last year and got reprimanded by many. People who said Mo is shit and can't do anything.

He's very good at dealing within the MLS. He needs a proper coach and Int'l scouts to work with though, like you mentioned.

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:30 PM
Confirmed by Goff:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/

Nuh uh! We heard it from Nuvinho first! :D Liar Goff...

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:30 PM
Also, after looking at the list. They picked mostly midfield players.. the position they already had the most of. Definitely some deals going on.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:30 PM
im sorry i doubt Mo.
christ.
its so nice to be wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:31 PM
read that Score blog update, i posted a couple of pages back, some interesting views on us trading off Marshall and James.

Parkdale
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
wow... this thread is nuts.

I'd like to see Parke in TFC red

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
not to self, don't trust MLSR anymore!!! Ruiz, Pappa, Walker......none of them were taken.

jloome
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
This whole list smacks of Seattle having other players lined up already who are going to take significant cap dollars. Why would they take guys Smith and Smith when they could've taken Wells Thompson and Eddie Gaven.

Mind-blowing. They had, on paper, a chance to come out of the draft with a competitive team and about $1 million still left under the cap. But not this group; this is a last-place team waiting to happen.

Beach_Red
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
I know it's been done before actually. I think it involved TFC and FC Dallas during our expansion draft. I forget what the specifics were though.

Come on, side deals are done every day in every league. It's only illegal if they get caught...

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
wow... this thread is nuts.

I'd like to see Parke in TFC red

dam right....he's a great soild player....:hump:

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:36 PM
I do remember rumors about Freddy Monteiro who is top scorer in colombia linked with them, im certain he will need allocation funds to cover his pay, that may account for a mass amount of trades etc

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:36 PM
This whole list smacks of Seattle having other players lined up already who are going to take significant cap dollars. Why would they take guys Smith and Smith when they could've taken Wells Thompson and Eddie Gaven.

Mind-blowing. They had, on paper, a chance to come out of the draft with a competitive team and about $1 million still left under the cap. But not this group; this is a last-place team waiting to happen.

Yup. For instance: for me, Terry Cooke was a no-brainer to work the wing opposite Ljungberg.

Wooster_TFC
11-26-2008, 02:37 PM
Anyone think that maybe Johann is making way too much money for a bench player? His salary for last year was listed at $47k or something, but isn't that pro-rated for the year like Pie-Man's was?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johann's salary at around $100k or more next year, which might be why he wasn't chosen.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:37 PM
they are defo bringing in other players that are taking up funds, i have no doubt.
too bad cuz they could have gone the conservative route too.
BWAHAHAHAH SEATTLE

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:37 PM
wow... this thread is nuts.

I'd like to see Parke in TFC red

so you can get Park-e on a kit??

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:38 PM
Anyone think that maybe Johann is making way too much money for a bench player? His salary for last year was listed at $47k or something, but isn't that pro-rated for the year like Pie-Man's was?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johann's salary at around $100k or more next year, which might be why he wasn't chosen.

Could be but i doubt he will be a bench player for long, hes young but has sme experience and i expect will jump in skill much like Wynne did this year

Stouffville_RPB
11-26-2008, 02:40 PM
Anyone think that maybe Johann is making way too much money for a bench player? His salary for last year was listed at $47k or something, but isn't that pro-rated for the year like Pie-Man's was?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johann's salary at around $100k or more next year, which might be why he wasn't chosen.

He most likely wouldn't have been a bench player in Seattle's first season.

brad
11-26-2008, 02:40 PM
wow... this thread is nuts.

I'd like to see Parke in TFC red

Parke, Parke, wherever you may be....:)

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 02:41 PM
Parke, Parke, wherever you may be....:)
You should play for TFC
Could be worse
Could be Crew
Running around in yellow shoes

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:42 PM
Wooster- Just reread what you said and i do agree, it is alot for someone thats likely to sit on the bench.
Once again, Mos a shrewd motherfucker

Shakes McQueen
11-26-2008, 02:46 PM
So, instead of taking one of our good players, they choose to take some of our dead weight, who not only takes up an international slot, but also receives international call-ups?

Trader Mo, sometimes I think I love you. Let it never be said that this man can't manage in MLS. He just needs people around him, who can scout.

- Scott

Stouffville_RPB
11-26-2008, 02:49 PM
WAIT!! Does this mean we still have Ruiz??? DAMN!!

Lucky Strike
11-26-2008, 02:49 PM
So, instead of taking one of our good players, they choose to take some of our dead weight, who not only takes up an international slot, but also receives international call-ups?


That pretty much sums it up, yeah.

reggie
11-26-2008, 02:50 PM
i'm thinking goff has got the wrong smith on his list.....

H Bomb
11-26-2008, 02:50 PM
as reported on TFC's website

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=206968&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 02:50 PM
WAIT!! Does this mean we still have Ruiz??? DAMN!!

is he even under contract for next season??

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 02:51 PM
Ruiz will be gone, his contract is up, we dont want him here, he wont play for less (most likely). Prob end up back in Guatamula for a year then back up once hes found form and dignity

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 02:55 PM
as reported on TFC's website

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=206968&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280
yep... it's official.

reggie
11-26-2008, 02:55 PM
as reported on TFC's website

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=206968&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280
WTF...did mo gave up a 1st rd pick to take him off our hands....

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 02:55 PM
Now we all await the wheeling and dealing!!

Strikers
11-26-2008, 02:56 PM
What I found ineteresting in the artilce by Goff is that the players officially transfer to the Sounders on Friday, making Jaqua still eligable to play for Houston tonight in the CCL.

Wooster_TFC
11-26-2008, 03:01 PM
WTF...did mo gave up a 1st rd pick to take him off our hands....

Oh, and another thing of note, there's rumours swirling that Jarrod counts as a domestic by MLS rules from his days playing in the States for school.

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 03:02 PM
So now you guys invite Jarrod for a final pint... thank him for the efforts....
and toss streamers at him on his way out the door!

Shaughno
11-26-2008, 03:06 PM
Oh, and another thing of note, there's rumours swirling that Jarrod counts as a domestic by MLS rules from his days playing in the States for school.

I do believe this is correct actually.

Stryker
11-26-2008, 03:06 PM
Me thinks Mo got Seattles scout shit faced and convinced him he thought highly of Jarrod.

BuSaPuNk
11-26-2008, 03:08 PM
:drinking:^ Yeah that's Mo's answer to everything!!:drinking:

Nodoubtguy
11-26-2008, 03:09 PM
So theirs also a waiver draft today?? that means we can pick up a player....right??

from sportsnet.ca

Seattle Sounders FC have another opportunity to add to their roster this afternoon in the waiver draft. All MLS teams were required to submit their waiver lists by 2:30 p.m. ET and the draft takes place at 4 p.m. ET. Players selected in the Waiver Draft will be made public after the draft has concluded.

Oldtimer
11-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Jarrod Smith?

Bwahahahaha!

Mo certainly knows the MLS game.
Add a few good international scouts, and we'll be rolling!

Mark in Ottawa
11-26-2008, 03:15 PM
http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=206969&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

"Sounders FC selection Nate Jaqua will be available to play for the Dynamo in tonight's CONCACAF Champions League game."


Sure hope he doesn't get injured or anything dumb like that.

Stouffville_RPB
11-26-2008, 03:24 PM
is he even under contract for next season??

Ahhh true. I forgot his contract expires. You are very wise.

olegunnar
11-26-2008, 03:28 PM
This is good news.

How though, is this a coup by Mo? I'm not 100% sure how we can attribute Seattle's decisions to Mo. Doesn't he work for us?

jloome
11-26-2008, 03:28 PM
I find the ongoing assumption in this thread that Mo Johnston had anything to do with this pretty amusing. There's absolutely nothing to suggest it, other than the insanity of Seattle's choice and the fact that Mo unloaded Edu for a gob-smacking amount.

Hell, we've been around for two-and-a-half years and still don't have a decent strike pairing. But all of a sudden, everyone's suspecting Mo has MLS's rules wrapped around his little finger.

Most leagues, including I imagine MLS, would frown somewhat on the draft being "circumvented" with pre-arranged, someone nebulous cash allocations.

More likely, they thought Smith is ready to contribute regularly, whereas Johann Smith might (as with several players in this draft) have a guaranteed contract increase on trade written into his deal; Rohan Ricketts is on an option year and it hasn't been picked up yet either by RR or the league; they already have a goalie, so Sutton is out. They took local boy Jaqua, which meant Ruiz was out. We're into the dregs beyond that, and all at positions with stronger picks in the draft.

But if everyone wants to hang onto the so-far unproven suggestion that Trader Mo is an MLS expert, don't be too disappointed if our pre-season roster....looks like last season's pre-season roster. Thankfully, this time Carver is here early.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2008, 03:31 PM
still giving Mo the benefit of the doubt with regards to our preseason/new signings
I do think Mo is behind it to a certaine extent as someone else pointed out, Seattle prob wasnt going to pick a developmental project that costs 100k to sit on the bench

SLBuu
11-26-2008, 03:32 PM
dont feel so bad about jarod Smith going. I like the kid but it could have been worse.

jloome
11-26-2008, 03:39 PM
This entire list is the laughing stock of the league today. I've found that MLS hardcores have some interesting ideas (they think Brandon Prideaux is a great left back, for example and that Khano Smith's speed makes him a good winger, despite his 10-cent football brain) about what makes a good player.

But checking out the reactions on the blogs, people think that either Seattle is apeshit crazy stupid, or there are a lot of trades and other purchases upcoming.

SLBuu
11-26-2008, 03:41 PM
im thinking the same..... trades are coming for sure. And they still dont have a full squad, they have what? 14-15 players now at the most. They still have more spots to fill, easy.

Oldtimer
11-26-2008, 03:47 PM
Mo has always been strong (not perfect but strong) in MLS wheeling and dealing and in the draft. He's weak in international drafting (likely due to not having had a good scouting network, one player agent doesn't count).

jloome
11-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Mo has always been strong (not perfect but strong) in MLS wheeling and dealing and in the draft. He's weak in international drafting (likely due to not having had a good scouting network, one player agent doesn't count).

Again, how exactly does level of activity equate to quality?

We saw what Mo's team was like when it was his show alone. Our supposedly strong "wheeling and dealing" in the draft got us

• Mo Edu. Okay, his one big win -- and even then it was as a con job sale, not as a player, where he was slumping badly.

Then we have.....
• Julius James. A project, perhaps even a perma-project.
• Pat Phelan. The best player we took in the draft, subsequently released and now doing a damn good supersub role in New England.
• Mike Zaher. Enjoying life as a bencher at DC United.
• Brian Edwards. Looks like a backup, plays like a backup.
• Xavier Balc. Stock groceries at S-Mart. Shop smart, shop S-Mart.
• Joe Lapira. Pride of the Norwegian Second Division.

Wynne was a trade. Velez was a free-agent, Marshall was an expansion draft pick but no one is convinced he's adding much. Harmse was a trade, Guevara was a trade, Ruiz was a trade;

His actual signings -- Dichio, Ricketts, Brennan, Robinson, Jo Smith -- aren't exactly league leaders and yet are still miles above what he has drafted.

So perhaps the "Trader Mo" designation as something positive is a wee bit premature. He has yet to deliver us anything that looks like a consistent winning starting eleven, a marquee player or a single solid draft pick who's still with the (first) team.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 04:08 PM
Again, how exactly does level of activity equate to quality?

We saw what Mo's team was like when it was his show alone. Our supposedly strong "wheeling and dealing" in the draft got us

• Mo Edu. Okay, his one big win -- and even then it was as a con job sale, not as a player, where he was slumping badly.

Then we have.....
• Julius James. A project, perhaps even a perma-project.
• Pat Phelan. The best player we took in the draft, subsequently released and now doing a damn good supersub role in New England.
• Mike Zaher. Enjoying life as a bencher at DC United.
• Brian Edwards. Looks like a backup, plays like a backup.
• Xavier Balc. Stock groceries at S-Mart. Shop smart, shop S-Mart.
• Joe Lapira. Pride of the Norwegian Second Division.

Wynne was a trade. Velez was a free-agent, Marshall was an expansion draft pick but no one is convinced he's adding much. Harmse was a trade, Guevara was a trade, Ruiz was a trade;

His actual signings -- Dichio, Ricketts, Brennan, Robinson, Jo Smith -- aren't exactly league leaders and yet are still miles above what he has drafted.

So perhaps the "Trader Mo" designation as something positive is a wee bit premature. He has yet to deliver us anything that looks like a consistent winning starting eleven, a marquee player or a single solid draft pick who's still with the (first) team.

Marshall was a trade.......but it was for Buddle.

Broadview
11-26-2008, 04:09 PM
Pretty sure Mo drafted Wynne when with NY.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 04:10 PM
Pretty sure Mo drafted Wynne when with NY.

Mo drafts well, he drafted Altidore as well.

Beach_Red
11-26-2008, 04:13 PM
We saw what Mo's team was like when it was his show alone.


Come on, you're not going to judge a GM after one year with an expansion team, "When it was his show alone?" The best we saw last year was the filling of holes when they came up - and in this league they come up all the time. The one that didn't get filled was losing Tebily and that really hurt us.

Keyman
11-26-2008, 04:19 PM
Seattle cannot be as stupid as this. If they actually believe this was the best group of players to select, then this expansion draft as an epic fail.

Trades have to be coming...

London
11-26-2008, 04:22 PM
they picked jarrod smith!!

Shakes McQueen
11-26-2008, 05:04 PM
Again, how exactly does level of activity equate to quality?

We saw what Mo's team was like when it was his show alone. Our supposedly strong "wheeling and dealing" in the draft got us

• Mo Edu. Okay, his one big win -- and even then it was as a con job sale, not as a player, where he was slumping badly.

Then we have.....
• Julius James. A project, perhaps even a perma-project.
• Pat Phelan. The best player we took in the draft, subsequently released and now doing a damn good supersub role in New England.
• Mike Zaher. Enjoying life as a bencher at DC United.
• Brian Edwards. Looks like a backup, plays like a backup.
• Xavier Balc. Stock groceries at S-Mart. Shop smart, shop S-Mart.
• Joe Lapira. Pride of the Norwegian Second Division.

Wynne was a trade. Velez was a free-agent, Marshall was an expansion draft pick but no one is convinced he's adding much. Harmse was a trade, Guevara was a trade, Ruiz was a trade;

His actual signings -- Dichio, Ricketts, Brennan, Robinson, Jo Smith -- aren't exactly league leaders and yet are still miles above what he has drafted.

So perhaps the "Trader Mo" designation as something positive is a wee bit premature. He has yet to deliver us anything that looks like a consistent winning starting eleven, a marquee player or a single solid draft pick who's still with the (first) team.

As others pointed out, you're not looking outside his limited tenure in Toronto. He also drafted Wynne and Altidore.

- Scott

ensco
11-26-2008, 05:05 PM
This has little to do with Mo (so far as we know).

All this means is that Seattle are nuts. Some of the guys they passed on are unbelieveable.

rocker
11-26-2008, 05:09 PM
for now I'm gonna equate "nuts" with "we worked all these side deals that will play out over time to explain our madness".
To me that's the only rational explanation. Maybe with time this will be the correct answer, or Seattle is run by idiots.

jloome
11-26-2008, 05:10 PM
As others pointed out, you're not looking outside his limited tenure in Toronto. He also drafted Wynne and Altidore.

- Scott

He was Alexi Lalas's assistant when they were drafted, both in the 2006 draft, which took place in the fall of 2005, so we don't really know how much of a role he had.

Either way, it's a bit of a moot point, as two useful picks at New York haven't really done fuck all for Toronto's draft, have they?

It also hardly invalidates the main point, which is that everyone is talking up basically non-existent credentials. He has Mo Edu as his one success, and the same people praising him here have been quick to point out that we fleeced Walter Smith at Rangers big-time.

Shakes McQueen
11-26-2008, 05:23 PM
He was Alexi Lalas's assistant when they were drafted, both in the 2006 draft, which took place in the fall of 2005, so we don't really know how much of a role he had.

Either way, it's a bit of a moot point, as two useful picks at New York haven't really done fuck all for Toronto's draft, have they?

It also hardly invalidates the main point, which is that everyone is talking up basically non-existent credentials. He has Mo Edu as his one success, and the same people praising him here have been quick to point out that we fleeced Walter Smith at Rangers big-time.

Personally I don't think he's a great "wheeler and dealer" in the draft - I just think he's a decent drafter, based on his still-limited history.

However, the "Trader Mo" moniker is thoroughly earned. As you listed yourself, he has made tons of signings, and fleeced a few people, in his short time here.

- Scott

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 05:35 PM
For all we know players could say "I won't play for Seattle so you can leave me unprotected and if they pick me I'll go to Norway" or where ever. Plus the league is known for "helping" teams keep guys or steering players to certain teams right? So, why is this so hard to understand guys?

Better players on those lists make bigger dough as well, which means Seattle couldn't get them all...so with all those factors combined it really does make sense.

Pigfynn
11-26-2008, 05:39 PM
Like Ronnie O' was left unprotected right? Is he going to play for Seattle on the dreaded Field Turf? I don't think so. The league wouldn't make him either.

ensco
11-26-2008, 06:14 PM
Seattle picked players from SJ, Toronto, LA (in the case of LA and Toronto, the guy they took was a complete shock) but decided no one was good enough from two of the league's best teams, DCU and Chivas.

Unbelievable.

jloome
11-26-2008, 08:03 PM
They passed over Flores, Razov and Talley from Chivas; they passed up Chris Klein, an established wide player who can be both a mid- and fullback; they passed on Terry Cooke, one of better wingers in the league. They passed on Lider Marmol who, while unheard of in MLS because he's been bench relegated, is a major central defender. They passed on Jo Smith. They passed on Wade Barrett instead of just trading for Jaqua, who wanted to go to Seattle anyway. They passed on Brandon Prideaux, an average wingback who is from Seattle and used to play in USL there.

It was a damn-near unbelievable sequence ofchoices.

Beach_Red
11-26-2008, 08:18 PM
And we have to do this again next year with Philly and the year after with at least two more teams.

Yohan
11-26-2008, 08:48 PM
It's absolutely bullshit, this expansion draft. No teams should be giving up players for new teams coming into the league.

Nuvinho
11-26-2008, 08:50 PM
http://goalseattle1.proboards101.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=seattlemls&thread=2461&page=1


Chris Henderson

(On selecting Jarrod Smith from Toronto FC…) “We did a lot of research, and watched some video and the stats that we had, we liked what we had seen from Jarrod. He’s currently in the New Zealand National Team pool, so that’s something that if he makes the Confederation’s Cup next year, we’ll deal with that. I think he’s a player that’s hungry to prove himself. I think he’s a competitor. He’s a versatile player. He’s a strong target type forward, but he can also play another position. We like that. We see a tremendous upside with Jarrod.”

Strikers
11-26-2008, 08:54 PM
^^^^^^^

Interesting response on there reason for choosing Jarrod.

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-26-2008, 11:25 PM
I hate the stupid expansion draft.

And upon looking at the list, I realized we must have protected Harmse.

You know, the man who's essentially a red card personified. You protect Harmse, but you leave the likes of Ricketts and Johann Smith up for grabs?

ua-kozak_TFC
11-26-2008, 11:37 PM
after watching the Interview...i want to say that Listening to Mo Johnston gives me Anxiety... honestly this guy is the biggest Bull Shitter in the league
"we could ahve picked up 3 or 4 guys... but then again we could have hang on to guys that we didn;t want to" you mean like Ruiz??

Also he said that now that he manages the team ONLY it's now done properly... to my knowledge no other club in MLS has a pecial position for "Soccer Manager" nor anywhere in the world for that matter. And the worst part is that thus far he's done an awful job.... not only we have no players on the bench that can come in and make an impact but more importantly is that going to third year of our franchise we still have a leaky defence, no offence and unconsistent midfield. The fact that he still has the job and gets 400k for doing this is beyond me...

Oldtimer
11-26-2008, 11:44 PM
He was Alexi Lalas's assistant when they were drafted, both in the 2006 draft, which took place in the fall of 2005, so we don't really know how much of a role he had.



Yes we do. It's well known that Mo chose those players himself. Any RBNY supporter would tell you that.

Altidore and Wynne were brilliant picks that gave Mo the reputation of a great drafter. No less than Ives has said that he is the best drafter in the league. Of course, what does Ives know? :rolleyes:

I laugh when I think that your Mo-hatred has gone to such extremes that you would credit Alexi Lalas for good drafting? Talk to any RBNY fan (or LA supporter for that matter): Lalas is an idiot. Period.

My problem with Mo is not in drafting or trading, it's with an inability to find cheap & good international signings, something which an MLS side needs to be competitive. Can Mo overcome his weakness by getting some good scouts? Time will tell.

Oldtimer
11-26-2008, 11:46 PM
I hate the stupid expansion draft.

And upon looking at the list, I realized we must have protected Harmse.

You know, the man who's essentially a red card personified. You protect Harmse, but you leave the likes of Ricketts and Johann Smith up for grabs?

It's all strategic. Mo knew they would never pick Ricketts.

Harmse is actually quite good on defense (though not as a midfielder), look at the archive of our last game at BMO and you'll see what I mean.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2008, 12:36 AM
after watching the Interview...i want to say that Listening to Mo Johnston gives me Anxiety... honestly this guy is the biggest Bull Shitter in the league
"we could ahve picked up 3 or 4 guys... but then again we could have hang on to guys that we didn;t want to" you mean like Ruiz??

Also he said that now that he manages the team ONLY it's now done properly... to my knowledge no other club in MLS has a pecial position for "Soccer Manager" nor anywhere in the world for that matter. And the worst part is that thus far he's done an awful job.... not only we have no players on the bench that can come in and make an impact but more importantly is that going to third year of our franchise we still have a leaky defence, no offence and unconsistent midfield. The fact that he still has the job and gets 400k for doing this is beyond me...

dude, Ruiz is gone, his contract is up, hes certainly not staying here.
and i dunno what football you were watching previously to the MLS but there are a TON of teams that rely on managers to pick players for the coaches. youre hatred of Mo is tiresome, just add to one of the other i hate mo threads.

jloome
11-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Yes we do. It's well known that Mo chose those players himself. Any RBNY supporter would tell you that.

Altidore and Wynne were brilliant picks that gave Mo the reputation of a great drafter. No less than Ives has said that he is the best drafter in the league. Of course, what does Ives know? :rolleyes:

I laugh when I think that your Mo-hatred has gone to such extremes that you would credit Alexi Lalas for good drafting? Talk to any RBNY fan (or LA supporter for that matter): Lalas is an idiot. Period.

My problem with Mo is not in drafting or trading, it's with an inability to find cheap & good international signings, something which an MLS side needs to be competitive. Can Mo overcome his weakness by getting some good scouts? Time will tell.

Yeah, get off the crack man. I don't hate Mo. I just don't think he has proven fuck all yet, and certainly not enough for the kind of love he seems to by mysteriously getting on the boards this off-season. Give me a DP before training camp, a solid team-leading CB and a good all-purpose midfielder and I'll start buying into "the plan." Until then, I'll just stick with supporting the team.

I do vaguely remember those threads on Ives, so I won't suggest you produce some evidence; but I will say that, given Lalas's ineptitude and Mo's departure shortly thereafter to a chorus of "in over his head", neither man's tenure in New York was exactly a stirling resume point.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2008, 01:03 AM
Jloome-
I can kinda understand your hesitancy with regards to Mo as hes batting more or less 50/50 right about now (arguably even 60/40) but if there was a season for the guy to produce it would be this season (seeing as it could be his last). I dont think his time at NY is as bad as some suggest tho. I guess we will find out.

ensco
11-27-2008, 07:34 AM
Just for the record: Mo has had some personnel blunders here

- the Mulrooney fiasco, which wound up costing us the second overall pick in the draft last year

- Phelan and Boyens - two recent first round picks that are already gone, with no return

- Welsh and Robert

Lucky Strike
11-27-2008, 08:10 AM
You know, the man who's essentially a red card personified. You protect Harmse, but you leave the likes of Ricketts and Johann Smith up for grabs?

I used to think that too, but he's buckled down after getting "the treatment" from JC after his DC red early in 2008. He's definitely got use now. It's just that his image from his old "I'm-a-red-card-waiting-to-happen" days hasn't gone yet.

Lucky Strike
11-27-2008, 08:12 AM
Just for the record: Mo has had some personnel blunders here

- the Mulrooney fiasco, which wound up costing us the second overall pick in the draft last year

- Phelan and Boyens - two recent first round picks that are already gone, with no return

-Welsh and Robert

- Wasn't Welsh recommended by Robinson? All that means is that we shouldn't let Robbo scout.
- Robert was more of a Carver thing. Robert was playing well but then just got lazy.
- Phelan: no argument there.
- Boyens: wasn't he waived to make room for a better player? Wasn't it Guevara or something?
- Mulrooney: don't remember that. Could you explain what happened there?

It's not as bad as some make it to sound. :D

ensco
11-27-2008, 08:25 AM
- Wasn't Welsh recommended by Robinson? All that means is that we shouldn't let Robbo scout.
- Robert was more of a Carver thing. Robert was playing well but then just got lazy.
- Phelan: no argument there.
- Boyens: wasn't he waived to make room for a better player? Wasn't it Guevara or something?
- Mulrooney: don't remember that. Could you explain what happened there?

It's not as bad as some make it to sound. :D

Robert clearly came here of Carver, but it's still Mo who signed him as GM. Same for Welsh. Mo owns those signings 100%. That's life as the GM.

Mulrooney was Dallas' starting MF. In pre-season last year, Mo traded our first rounder in 2008 (plus something I think) for him. Turns out his wife didn't want to come to Toronto or some such. Two games later we traded Mulrooney to Houston for their first rounder and Goldthwaite. Problem is, Houston's pick was 11th overall (if I recall correctly), ours was 2nd overall. No way Goldthwaite/Dunivant was worth sliding from 2nd to 11th in the draft for.

That Houston first round pick went to RSL for Cunny. I forgot to put him on that list. I also forgot to mention Esky, Buddle, (these two cases are a bit complex, I admit) plus Braz and Reda (disasters by any measure).

There's quite a bit to criticize Mo for. Having said that, Wynne, Edu, Brennan, Robinson, Dichio, Ibrahim, getting Guevara for almost nothing, same with Barrett, having 3 picks in the first round this year.....there's a lot to like.

50/50 is about right. Jury is still out for me.

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-27-2008, 08:32 AM
I used to think that too, but he's buckled down after getting "the treatment" from JC after his DC red early in 2008. He's definitely got use now. It's just that his image from his old "I'm-a-red-card-waiting-to-happen" days hasn't gone yet.
I admit he has played well on defence in the last month or so, but who's to say the random acts of violence aren't completely out of his system?:noidea: He's a useful player to have, but if they'd chosen one of Ricketts or Johann Smith, I would have cursed Mo Johnston to hell.

Oldtimer
11-27-2008, 08:40 AM
I do vaguely remember those threads on Ives, so I won't suggest you produce some evidence; but I will say that, given Lalas's ineptitude and Mo's departure shortly thereafter to a chorus of "in over his head", neither man's tenure in New York was exactly a stirling resume point.

Mo's departure had mostly to do with Red Bull taking over and wanting to clean out the AEG bunch. New York has averaged almost 1 coaching change per year since it's start, so it's no reflection (good or bad) on Mo.

I'm not sold on Mo, he's still gotta prove himself this season, but neither am I in the "Mo's an idiot" camp.

Now, after reading Seattle's reasoning for their picks, I think we can both agree that their GM is less than stellar.

Shaughno
11-27-2008, 08:42 AM
http://goalseattle1.proboards101.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=seattlemls&thread=2461&page=1 (http://goalseattle1.proboards101.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=seattlemls&thread=2461&page=1)


Chris Henderson

(On selecting Jarrod Smith from Toronto FC…) “We did a lot of research, and watched some video and the stats that we had, we liked what we had seen from Jarrod. He’s currently in the New Zealand National Team pool, so that’s something that if he makes the Confederation’s Cup next year, we’ll deal with that. I think he’s a player that’s hungry to prove himself. I think he’s a competitor. He’s a versatile player. He’s a strong target type forward, but he can also play another position. We like that. We see a tremendous upside with Jarrod.”



That's basically what I was saying earlier about Jarrod. I still think he has more to show than what we saw. Think about it, he was almost always paired up with shit when he played up front (pie man, cunny) and sometimes stuck out on the wing, where I personally thought he did quite well considering he was supposed to be a dedicated striker.


He's a promising young Int'l player with some speed, some skill and he's got decent ability in the air.




I mean, Jarrod Smith isn't terrible. He's been a utility player for us, but he's never had a proper crack at first team time in one dedicated position. I can see him doing well there if they give him some time.


If they keep him included semi regularily in their first team plans this year, I think you'll see a decent improvement in his consistancy and overall form.

Good luck Jarrod, you busted your balls for us and for that I'm grateful. Not every player who's donned our jersey has put forth as much effort as you have.

SoccMan
11-27-2008, 09:11 AM
Jarrod Smith = Andrea Lombardo, both hard running and hard working players, both found it hard to find the back of the net, both gave it their all when they were on the field, no big loss here. Andrea Lombardo was not a big loss when they let him go, and Jarrod Smith is no big loss either. The only thing about Lombardo was that he was Canadian and it's always a bit sad when a Canadian player does not work out after showing a little bit of potential when he was first signed.

Shaughno
11-27-2008, 09:17 AM
IMO, Smith is a much more talented and promising player than Lombardo.

That said, it was probably the best outcome from the expansion draft we could have hoped for.

justin
11-27-2008, 09:18 AM
IMO, Smith is a much more talented and promising player than Lombardo.

That said, it was probably the best outcome from the expansion draft we could have hoped for.

no question

Shaughno
11-27-2008, 09:20 AM
ps. Justin, sounds like I got out of the Winterpeg trip. I'll let you know if I get screwed into going. :lol:

SoccMan
11-27-2008, 09:32 AM
Like I said Jarrod Smith and Lombardo are the same type of player, Jarrod Smith much more talented and promising than Lombardo no way. Same type of players only difference is in their names. I have players on my U13 Boys Rep. team I coach with more skill and promise than those two put together.

Shaughno
11-27-2008, 09:36 AM
Like I said Jarrod Smith and Lombardo are the same type of player, Jarrod Smith much more talented and promising than Lombardo no way. Same type of players only difference is in their names. I have players on my U13 Boys Rep. team I coach with more skill and promise than those two put together.


Sorry, but I'll put money on those promising kids not making it as far as Smith.

Reality is, Jarrod Smith is an International player, actual professional coaches see something in him. I'm not sure why people are so overly negative around here.

justin
11-27-2008, 09:36 AM
ps. Justin, sounds like I got out of the Winterpeg trip. I'll let you know if I get screwed into going. :lol:

lucky bastard :lol:

Lucky Strike
11-27-2008, 09:38 AM
Robert clearly came here of Carver, but it's still Mo who signed him as GM. Same for Welsh. Mo owns those signings 100%. That's life as the GM.

Mulrooney was Dallas' starting MF. In pre-season last year, Mo traded our first rounder in 2008 (plus something I think) for him. Turns out his wife didn't want to come to Toronto or some such. Two games later we traded Mulrooney to Houston for their first rounder and Goldthwaite. Problem is, Houston's pick was 11th overall (if I recall correctly), ours was 2nd overall. No way Goldthwaite/Dunivant was worth sliding from 2nd to 11th in the draft for.

That Houston first round pick went to RSL for Cunny. I forgot to put him on that list. I also forgot to mention Esky, Buddle, (these two cases are a bit complex, I admit) plus Braz and Reda (disasters by any measure).

There's quite a bit to criticize Mo for. Having said that, Wynne, Edu, Brennan, Robinson, Dichio, Ibrahim, getting Guevara for almost nothing, same with Barrett, having 3 picks in the first round this year.....there's a lot to like.

50/50 is about right. Jury is still out for me.

Yeah, that seems fair. Although not obvious (and it sounds somewhat insane), it may be unfair to judge Mo on the Cunny deal. At the time, he was getting one of MLS's top all-time strikers and at the time, there was no indication that he couldn't replicate his form for us. We all know how that turned out and I'm pretty sure everyone knows how much I hate Cunny.

Lucky Strike
11-27-2008, 09:44 AM
IMO, Smith is a much more talented and promising player than Lombardo.

That said, it was probably the best outcome from the expansion draft we could have hoped for.





Reality is, Jarrod Smith is an International player, actual professional coaches see something in him. I'm not sure why people are so overly negative around here.


There's a slight bit of discontinuity but I hear what you're saying. What's happening is that:

1. People are extremely glad to not have lost a player like Ricketts, Jo Smith (who I guess we can just call Smith now), Sutton and Attakora.

2. Thus, indirectly, it means that we're glad that Seattle picked Ja Smith so it can often seem like we're making him out to be worse than he was.

P.S. Depending on whether Mo was going to get rid of Ja Smith, we can decide whether it was the best outcome. Because if Ja Smith was going to be let go, then yes. However, if Mo planned to keep him, the best outcome would have been to have lost no player (or perhaps Ruiz instead).

Beach_Red
11-27-2008, 09:56 AM
Robert was more of a Carver thing. Robert was playing well but then just got lazy.


Not all picks are going to work out. But should there be some question as to why Robert started strong and gave up? I know we all hate Cunningham but he did better once he left. Ruiz never even bothered, why not?

Is any of this coaching?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2008, 10:02 AM
Could be that those guys just didnt like Carver, it happens, then ya gotta look to Barrett, Velez, Ricketts who would run over to Carver after scoring

Shaughno
11-27-2008, 10:06 AM
Could be that those guys just didnt like Carver, it happens, then ya gotta look to Barrett, Velez, Ricketts who would run over to Carver after scoring

Also those players, Ruiz, Robert and Cunny all were semi-problematic in the past. Guevara is really the only problem child that seems to have adapted to Carver. All the rest of the players seem to love Carver.

ACSertL
11-27-2008, 10:17 AM
Also those players, Ruiz, Robert and Cunny all were semi-problematic in the past. Guevara is really the only problem child that seems to have adapted to Carver. All the rest of the players seem to love Carver.

Its Winsper they must all hate ;)

Beach_Red
11-27-2008, 10:21 AM
Also those players, Ruiz, Robert and Cunny all were semi-problematic in the past. Guevara is really the only problem child that seems to have adapted to Carver. All the rest of the players seem to love Carver.

Yes, as an expansion team it's to be expected there'd be a lot of problem players available. I hope that's one of the things we'll see less of as the team gets more established.

Steve
11-27-2008, 10:45 AM
Mulrooney was Dallas' starting MF. In pre-season last year, Mo traded our first rounder in 2008 (plus something I think) for him. Turns out his wife didn't want to come to Toronto or some such. Two games later we traded Mulrooney to Houston for their first rounder and Goldthwaite. Problem is, Houston's pick was 11th overall (if I recall correctly), ours was 2nd overall. No way Goldthwaite/Dunivant was worth sliding from 2nd to 11th in the draft for.


I do agree with your overall point, but I'd like to address this one. So, maybe it was Mo's fault for not checking to make sure Mulrooney would play in Canada, fine, but let's look at the overall effect of this trade (given Mo's first plans were probably ruined, as many plans are, by a damned woman).

We trade our 2nd overall for an 11th overall
We get Dunivant

So, essentially, the question is, is Dunivant worth the difference between a 2nd overall and an 11th overall? Personally, I think he is. I mean, it was unfortunate he got injured, but before that, he was an absolutetly quality defender/midfielder. Our most solid bench player, and could have easily been pushing for the start. He is worth a lot in trade value (due to his domestic status in the states, his versatility, and his relative cheap price tag).

Now, I guess we have to look at the draft choices.

2nd overall: Brek Shea - US MF, 2 apps, 0 goals in the 2008 season (FC Dallas)
11th overall: Roger Espinoza - Honduran MF, 22 apps, 1 goal 2008 season (KC Wiz)

Now, I'm not trying to suggest one is better than the other (Brek is younger) but you have to look at our strategy in the drafts. We cannot afford to pick up real projects. They count as internationals for us. Instead, we need to fill our reserve roster with Canadians (who are likely not in the draft, or will not be chosen by other teams as much). We need to draft players who are either immediately worth something (Edu was, JJ was supposed to be), or have some trade value. Frankly, I would rather have Dunivant on our team than a project like Shea.

Essentially, as a Canadian team, our drafting strategy has to be different than most. Because of this, it will be useful for us to sometimes trade away high picks in order to get proven players. For this year, I don't expect to go into the draft with 3 first rounders (I expect some to be packaged with lower picks to get players, or possible a first rounder put with later pics to get Seattles first pic to secure White).

My one question with the future of the draft is the changes to reserve teams this year. By dropping rosters from 28 to 24, and increasing senior spots to 20 (from 18) you're getting rid of 6 reserve players (from 10 to 4). With that in mind, how many teams are going to have roster space to develop these young kids? I understand the point of trying to save money and such, but doesn't this kill the suplimental draft? Maybe a better solution would be allowing teams to have a reserve roster of like 12 players (with the same salary as current) but forcing the team owners to pay for it? This would be a small concession to larger clubs (allowing them to pay out an extra 100-200k) but would still allow clubs to develop players if they wanted to (without sticking them with 4 total).

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2008, 10:58 AM
supposedly with the ridding of those 6 spots itll force teams to really really scout players and only bring quality to the league. IMO itll force alot of teams to make hasty decisions as there have been players in the supplemental draft that did waaaaaaay better than the regular draft players. Also itll deminish rosters and fuck alot of canadian players.

ensco
11-27-2008, 11:06 AM
So, essentially, the question is, is Dunivant worth the difference between a 2nd overall and an 11th overall? Personally, I think he is.



Both of us had it wrong. It was the 14th overall pick (David Horst to RSL) that we got for Mulrooney and traded to RSL. Doesn't change the discussion much.

We disagree mainly in the assessment of the difference between 2nd and 11th/14th overall. Huge in my opinion. Dallas reached and may have wasted the pick, but that wouldn't change my opinion on the strategy.

Go back and look at the last 5 superdrafts -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MLS_drafts

Most of the players who've made a name for themselves were taken in the first 5 overall picks - yes there are Altidores out there, but not many.

(An aside - it's interesting how weak the 2007 class turned out to be.)

I like Dunivant's versatility, but it's not clear he's real quality. I expect he will be traded (for the reason you state). I always thought he was going back to the Quakes - the supporters love him out there.

Steve
11-27-2008, 11:16 AM
Both of us had it wrong. It was the 14th overall pick (David Horst to RSL) that we got for Mulrooney and traded to RSL. Doesn't change the discussion much.

We disagree mainly in the assessment of the difference between 2nd and 11th/14th overall. Huge in my opinion. Dallas reached and may have wasted the pick, but that wouldn't change my opinion on the strategy.

Go back and look at the last 5 superdrafts -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MLS_drafts

Most of the players who've made a name for themselves were taken in the first 5 overall picks - yes there are Altidores out there, but not many.

(An aside - it's interesting how weak the 2007 class turned out to be.)

I like Dunivant's versatility, but it's not clear he's real quality. I expect he will be traded (for the reason you state). I always thought he was going back to the Quakes - the supporters love him out there.

That's fair. I'm not saying I've definitely right, but for me, right now, I view Dunivant as more important than that difference. In the long run, you may be right, that's just not by gut feel. I just don't see the draft as being as important to Toronto given our international player restrictions.

As far as Dunivant, I view him as a very solid player. Never a superstar, never someone to stand out, not someone you would kill for, but all around solid. That makes him a great roll player in MLS. If we trade him, I'm sure we'll get quality in return, if we keep him, I'm sure he'll contribute a lot to the team (and not give us too many chances to curse his name).

Edit: And it's true that most players who have gone on to make a name for themselves have been picked in the top 5, but it's by no means a guaruntee. I'd be curious how many of the top 5 in the last 5 years have been successful? Curious enough to actually find out? Who knows...