Montreal "drops" MLS bid

[troy1982]

does that fee go up every year? how many years would one team have to wait to get in? The Impact has been around longer than top tier soccer in this city, so maybe they were looking at joining back when it was only 10 million? Sure it's easy to say that it's all about the money, but there's so much more than just the cash. I'd rather have a strong, small team join instead of just a rich owner.

Actually Joey could've joined many times earlier but he said he didn't like the MLS model and bashed the league and wasn't interested. that was up to 2 years ago before TFC joined and before Beckham. Since then he has changed his toon, but the competition for new teams and stadium requirements has also increased and so has the expansion fee.

Unlike most here I am loving the karma and MLS saying NO to him.

[troy1982]

MLS loses more here than the Impact.

Montreal is a well run professional organization.
Has its own Private Stadium.
Dosent seem to need MLS to sell tickets, win chamionships, compete internationally
Can grow professional soccer in Quebec just as well in the USL.

We are not talking about the Lynx here , the IMPACT are and will remain strong with or without MLS.

One thing though, Montreal is in the USL which will be getting smaller in the coming years. they are losing Seattle, Atlanta, Miami, and possibly Vancouver and Portland. They will gain 3 more cities soon but they will lose most of the strong stable ones.

Rochester used to be a top USL team aswell but the fans wanted to be in MLS and as that dream faded so to has there attendance.

[Roogsy]

Actually Joey could've joined many times earlier but he said he didn't like the MLS model and bashed the league and wasn't interested. that was up to 2 years ago before TFC joined and before Beckham. Since then he has changed his toon, but the competition for new teams and stadium requirements has also increased and so has the expansion fee.

Unlike most here I am loving the karma and MLS saying NO to him.

A lot of people here are indeed forgetting the Saputo arrogance about the MLS in the not to distant past. However, I was hoping things had moved beyond that for the fans and the game.

[keem-o-sabi]

well we still get to play them in the canuck championship. Just have to beat them next year and tell them to shut the hell up.

Atlanta isn't a phantom bid, I know this from the owners of the now defunct Silverbacks. They have been somewhat working with the group trying to get the MLS team there.

St. Louis, isn't a phantom bid either. if they are then god bless them, they totally conned the city and all of the youth clubs there to merge together and commit to building a stadium for them (great con, especially with a phantom team).

It would be nice if it was Vancouver and Portland to come in, that would be a nice little rivalry (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver). Miami is hard to turn down, and St. Louis was in the final two of the last round of expansion.

Why has the cost of MLS teams gone up??? I see asked a lot here. MLS isn't setting the price, groups are buying existing MLS clubs for around that and that is how they came to those figures (i'm guessing here though).

As for bashing Garber...piss off. You have no freaking clue. The man is one of the best sports execs and before him MLS was toast. You probably didn't follow the league before it arrived here (or did but not a lot as the matches aren't shown here), I grew up in the states and it was going to die when they contracted Miami and Tampa Bay and the other groups were dying slowly. The new groups have really saved MLS, RSL, TFC, Chivas, Houston (although they aren't new just moved) the new SJ have all done a pretty damn good job raising the bar in terms of attendance, etc. The league is lightyears ahead of where it was in 1999-2000. Attendance after the Beckham effect dipped a little bit, but was still pretty high (I think 3rd highest ever 1996 being 1st, 2007 being 2nd).

You have the weakest team in terms of attendance getting their own palace now (KC) they did well in the carnival atmosphere they had at their temporary home. It was kind of like Chicago when they moved to that little stadium for a year when Soldier Field was being renovated, it created a great little atmospher that got even more people interested.

I was told by friends of mine in MLS that Montreal's bid was the weakest long ago, and as we found out this weekend it was. I get so sick of people bashing garber, true MLS screws the pooch a lot, but you know what? For all the stupid things that MLS does, it has helped my national team become very good, it gave US players a place to play and be noticed. The one rule they need to change (beside playing on international dates and the discovery claim/allocation silliness) is to let Canucks count the same as yanks and then the pool of players will be larger (especially with the amount of new teams being bandied about).

Alright I wrote enough.

[GeorgeB]

One thing though, Montreal is in the USL which will be getting smaller in the coming years. they are losing Seattle, Atlanta, Miami, and possibly Vancouver and Portland. They will gain 3 more cities soon but they will lose most of the strong stable ones.

Rochester used to be a top USL team aswell but the fans wanted to be in MLS and as that dream faded so to has there attendance.i got to agree.the gap between mls and usl will start getting wider and Montreal will get left behind.

[gmacpheetfc]

True...and the MLS may wind up with another KC or Columbus on their hands when they could have had the best Canadian derby since the Oilers/Flames, Leafs/Habs and Northern vs North Toronto!


I Like to throw Lawrence Park in there Roogsy as a distinguished alumni

[gmacpheetfc]

instead of NT that is

[GeorgeB]

Don't forget the hot easy girls! and Danse Contact !

[Cashcleaner]

exactly.

Why do they keep shoving this Crew rivalry down our throats when there's already the Toronto-Montreal one right there? Getting Montreal into the MLS would have done wonders for traveling support. Every team on the east Coast would have sent a bus there. That would be great for the league. I can get excited about going to see Miami and Seatle, but St.Louis? Not one bit

How could Garber or anyone else not see the potential for a Toronto/Montreal rivalry? Like you said, they're gonna ram the Trillium Cup down our throats because its a convenient derby for the league - despite its illegitimacy in the eyes of the supporter (ie: the people who count).


And it's doubly frustrating because MLS doesn't HAVE TO be the NHL. Hockey is an expensive game for kids to play, it's tough to build at the grassroots and it's gone as far in the world as it can. Pretty much the opposite of soccer.

That's what frustrates me the most. It doesn't have to be nearly as complicated as the league is making it. The marketing is all about a family-atmosphere. It's all about soccer moms and 2-and-a-half kids watching a nice friendly game in the sun. What about focusing on the important things like raising the quality of talent and allowing for more independence for the individual teams. By adding these silly "rivalry cups" so arbitrarily they make me less interested in the games.


MLS loses more here than the Impact.

Montreal is a well run professional organization.
Has its own Private Stadium.
Dosent seem to need MLS to sell tickets, win chamionships, compete internationally
Can grow professional soccer in Quebec just as well in the USL.

We are not talking about the Lynx here , the IMPACT are and will remain strong with or without MLS.

True, but it would have been much better for us and soccer as a whole in the country if they did get the franchise.

[kodiakTFC]

I am upset they wont have a team, it would have given me something to do when I was in school there from Sept to Nov. Stade Saputo would need a lot of upgrades, I have been there and it is just awful. Under the stands would need a LOT of work.

[keem-o-sabi]

English Saputo press conference

http://www.impactmontreal.com/News/News.aspx?language=EN&ArticleID=1031

Clearly states he has the money to pay the franchise fee, but didn't want to.

[massive_magpie]

In hindsight (I really wanted the Montreal bid for the rivalry), if Ottawa does get the team because of Montreal pulling out Canada gets it's 4th 'top flight' (I'm equating USL and MLS here) team that's pretty positive for Canadian soccer.

And if they (Ottawa) attempt to steal MNT home games from BMO by having a better (grass) pitch, it'll put pressure on MLSE to do that same.

[Beach_Red]

That's what frustrates me the most. It doesn't have to be nearly as complicated as the league is making it. The marketing is all about a family-atmosphere. It's all about soccer moms and 2-and-a-half kids watching a nice friendly game in the sun. What about focusing on the important things like raising the quality of talent and allowing for more independence for the individual teams. By adding these silly "rivalry cups" so arbitrarily they make me less interested in the games.

It seems like people decided before they even tried that the only way to sell soccer was to make it a "family" outing and to Americanize it. You would think with the success of TFC someone would realize that there actually is a market for 'real football.'

You never know, if Seattle turns out as good as it looks and the new stadium in New York works as well as it can the league may start to move more in that direction.

[Parkdale]

You never know, if Seattle turns out as good as it looks and the new stadium in New York works as well as it can the league may start to move more in that direction.

Plus it seems like San Jose has a decent sized supporters section too.
Philly would have a top notch one with the Sons of Ben.

[Redcoe15]

Wow, so much hate here for Joey Saputo in the last 24 hours.

While I can't say he isn't without fault here, I do have to think that maybe he has a point about how MLS is conducting their business in terms of expansion, given the state of the economy today. MLSE paid $10 million dollars for a team three years ago and that fee has jumped fourfold today. This without a real jump in any new TV revenues and sponsorships.

Doesn't anyone remember what happened in 1990 when the NHL was looking to add two new teams at $50 million? A lot of promising bids bailed out because they questioned the wisdom of the league's asking price. Ron Joyce came in to front Hamilton's bid, but wanted to negotiate how to pay out the money. The league told him "NO TEAM FOR YOU!" and awarded it to Ottawa and Tampa Bay only because both said "yes" to the league's questionable demands. And both those franchises same close to collapsing because they didn't have the means to make a go of it. And Hamilton has still been chasing a team ever since (hi there, Jim Balsillie). But did anyone rag all over Joyce for making demands to the NHL that ultimatly lost him a team? Nope. Everyone took shots at the NHL for denying a hockey market in Canada a chance at a team and blamed the league for being greedy bastards. History it seems is repeating itself with Don Garber and MLS.

The feeling seems to be "tough shit, Saputo". "if you'd only acquiested to Garber's demands you'd have a team pretty soon". I don't share that view. I think Saputo is a smart enough businessman who understands the business end of soccer to know that MLS is not really trying to grow the game from a soccer standpoint, but from the dollars and cents they envision dancing in their heads. Isn't that what we accuse Gary Bettman of doing to hockey?

MLS may not know it, but they need someone like Joey Saputo in their league a lot more than they realize. I fear this league is heading down the wrong path.

[GhostPK]

Whitecaps, thats what they are called Vancouver Witcaps. I like their uniforms.

You're kidding right? Any three year old can come up with a blank white shirt with a solid blue stripe across it with the words WhiteCraps. Im sure when van gets into the MLS, they will be having a wardrobe change.

[ensco]

English Saputo press conference

http://www.impactmontreal.com/News/News.aspx?language=EN&ArticleID=1031

Clearly states he has the money to pay the franchise fee, but didn't want to.

The C$45MM "total investment" included both the expansion fee and the stadium expansion. If the stadium expansion is C$15-20 million (interesting and telling that he doesn't break that out) Montreal's fee proposal was aronund US$20-23 million.

It's baffling. Why would Saputo or Gillett have ever thought that this would work?

I was born in Montreal, but I'll say it again. Nobody, including the MLS, needs to be in Montreal. It's a nice market, there are other nice markets too. It's not special in any sense. That market has issues (linguistic, regulatory, political risk). It gets 10-12K for minor league soccer - BFD.

It would have been far better in the long run for Montreal soccer fans if Saputo had just stayed home.

[Beach_Red]

The C$45MM "total investment" included both the expansion fee and the stadium expansion. If the stadium expansion is C$15-20 million (interesting and telling that he doesn't break that out) Montreal's fee proposal was aronund US$20-23 million.

It's baffling. Why would Saputo or Gillett have ever thought that this would work?

I was born in Montreal, but I'll say it again. Nobody, including the MLS, needs to be in Montreal. It's a nice market, there are other nice markets too. It's not special in any sense. It's gets 10-12K for minor league soccer. BFD.

It would have been far better in the long run for Montreal soccer fans if Saputo had just stayed home.

It is baffling.

MLS is taking a risk here jumping up to the 'next level' as it were, valuing the franchises at $40 million and hoping the league really does get a lot more popular.

It could work. They are actually bringing bigger sponsors on board and new stadiums and so on. Raise that salary cap, raise the level play, who knows, TV ratings could go way up.

Go big or go home, I guess.

[rocker]

the example of the NHL and Ron Joyce is interesting, because I'm sure if you asked the guy now, he'd say "We shoulda spent the $$$ up front and got in then." Whatever happened with Tampa and Ottawa, they are still in the league and worth much more than then. And Hamilton has what? the Hamilton Bulldogs of the AHL (second division). Saputo may look back in 20 years and be in the same situation.

Negotiating on something like this is dumb. And the way the NHL is so profitable now in Canada (you sure couldn't get a team for $50mil either), Joyce made a bad decision. This is the price you pay for being cheap now like Saputo when the value could increase dramatically in the future. What if in 10 years MLS teams are going for $100 million?

If Joey really planned to expand the stadium with just another 15-20 mil, he obviously doesn't understand MLS requirements. I don't think a 15-20 mil expansion gets that stadium up to the revenue potential of BMO. All the new MLS stadiums cost 70-100 million for a reason....

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Wow, so much hate here for Joey Saputo in the last 24 hours.

While I can't say he isn't without fault here, I do have to think that maybe he has a point about how MLS is conducting their business in terms of expansion, given the state of the economy today. MLSE paid $10 million dollars for a team three years ago and that fee has jumped fourfold today. This without a real jump in any new TV revenues and sponsorships.

Doesn't anyone remember what happened in 1990 when the NHL was looking to add two new teams at $50 million? A lot of promising bids bailed out because they questioned the wisdom of the league's asking price. Ron Joyce came in to front Hamilton's bid, but wanted to negotiate how to pay out the money. The league told him "NO TEAM FOR YOU!" and awarded it to Ottawa and Tampa Bay only because both said "yes" to the league's questionable demands. And both those franchises same close to collapsing because they didn't have the means to make a go of it. And Hamilton has still been chasing a team ever since (hi there, Jim Balsillie). But did anyone rag all over Joyce for making demands to the NHL that ultimatly lost him a team? Nope. Everyone took shots at the NHL for denying a hockey market in Canada a chance at a team and blamed the league for being greedy bastards. History it seems is repeating itself with Don Garber and MLS.

The feeling seems to be "tough shit, Saputo". "if you'd only acquiested to Garber's demands you'd have a team pretty soon". I don't share that view. I think Saputo is a smart enough businessman who understands the business end of soccer to know that MLS is not really trying to grow the game from a soccer standpoint, but from the dollars and cents they envision dancing in their heads. Isn't that what we accuse Gary Bettman of doing to hockey?

MLS may not know it, but they need someone like Joey Saputo in their league a lot more than they realize. I fear this league is heading down the wrong path.


MLS don't need Joey Saputo as they have just proved. MLS has a set Expansion fee and the clown Saputo tried to get around it...didn;t work did it. If going for a franchise in any sport , MLS , NHL, NFL, NBA etc who HAVE to pay the expansion fee, if your not willing (Saputo) they just stay
away sand stop wasting peoples time. Montreal and the Impact won't be missed cause they were never there to begin with. The league is heading i the right direction by getting rid of the pretenders of owners and keeping the real deals,

[Steve]

The C$45MM "total investment" included both the expansion fee and the stadium expansion. If the stadium expansion is C$15-20 million (interesting and telling that he doesn't break that out) Montreal's fee proposal was aronund US$20-23 million.

It's baffling. Why would Saputo or Gillett have ever thought that this would work?

I was born in Montreal, but I'll say it again. Nobody, including the MLS, needs to be in Montreal. It's a nice market, there are other nice markets too. It's not special in any sense. That market has issues (linguistic, regulatory, political risk). It gets 10-12K for minor league soccer - BFD.

It would have been far better in the long run for Montreal soccer fans if Saputo had just stayed home.

Exactly. When I first heard it, I thought Saputo had offered a $45M CND expansion fee, which was still lower than $40M USD, but seemed to me reasonable. I could understand Garber rejecting it, but I at least thought Saputo was not too far off.

Now I realise the ENTIRE investment was $45M CND. That is WAY off. That included the stadium, and I presume some other infrastructure improvements. Honestly, I would say Saputo probably tried to offer an expansion fee of between 15 and 25 Million USD, but buried it in his "$45M" figure, hoping it would go unnoticed. Sorry Joey, but your stadium expansion is not deductable. That's entirely up to you. When you have teams putting up $200M facilities, do you really think you can get away with throwing a few million at your minor league stadium and hoping? And getting the league to essentially pay for it?

Saputo suffers from too much ego. The problem is, Garber does as well. That proposal was an insult, one put together by a man who thought he was more important than he is. Honestly, if that's how cheap Saputo is going to be, I'd rather he stay out of the league (I want the league to grow, to move into stadiums like the new Red Bull Arena, not to be content with minor league mediocrity).

As for the valuation, look at TFC right now. Bought in at $10M, has a current valuation (after 2 years) of $44M. We got lucky. We got in at the perfect time (though Toronto helped make it that way). The league is looking much more stable, more viable, and more successful these days. TV contracts are paying money instead of taking it. Teams are all (err, mostly) moving into their own stadiums. $10M was a steal for what MLSE got. $40M might be high right now, but don't compare it to the $10M like that's the appropriate price. Investors right now are banking on the promise of the league, and it looks like a significant number of big players DO think $40M is correct, so who are we to argue?

[rocker]

do you really think you can get away with throwing a few million at your minor league stadium and hoping? And getting the league to essentially pay for it?
Honestly, if that's how cheap Saputo is going to be, I'd rather he stay out of the league (I want the league to grow, to move into stadiums like the new Red Bull Arena, not to be content with minor league mediocrity).


I'm with you on this. Saputo Stadium needs wayyyy more $$$ than Saputo wants to put into it.

I hear fans complaining about BMO not being as nice as these pretty stadiums going up elsewhere (every time some stadium porn comes on the board, BMO always gets criticized). but when it comes to Saputo, some people take his side as if Stade Saputo is a gem of a stadium ready for MLS needing just more seats.

Well, fact is, it isn't. It needs massive renovations to get it up to BMO's standard. And that's BMO's standard, which is less than Rio Tinto, or Red Bull Park or even Dick's. BMO in 5 years is probably gonna be on the low end of the quality scale for MLS stadiums, given all the new ones coming on line. So Montreal's stadium expansion plan had no vision at all. Ottawa's stadium plans express a vision that fits with MLS's future. That's what Montreal should have shot for.

Since MLS gets a cut of revenues from the stadium, MLS has every right to be concerned about the expansion designs. The # of seats is not the only question here. If Saputo wants to keep ticket prices low for "families" then he's lowering MLS's cut... not to mention proper concessions etc.

[Beach_Red]

the example of the NHL and Ron Joyce is interesting, because I'm sure if you asked the guy now, he'd say "We shoulda spent the $$$ up front and got in then." Whatever happened with Tampa and Ottawa, they are still in the league and worth much more than then. And Hamilton has what? the Hamilton Bulldogs of the AHL (second division). Saputo may look back in 20 years and be in the same situation.


Well, maybe if you asked him today he'd say, "Yeah, we should have lied and told them we had all the money and then financed it the way Ottawa did," but he actually seemed like a guy who told the expansion committee the truth and lost out because of it.

It might be interesting to see the NHL today if Hamilton had gotten instead of Ottawa the way it was then. And Tampa.

MLS is taking a risk that they are ready to move into the big leagues. If they're right then Saputo will look back in 20 years and think he blew it. If MLS goes the way of NASL that would have been a $40 million expansion fee down the drain.

[Redcoe15]

MLS don't need Joey Saputo as they have just proved. MLS has a set Expansion fee and the clown Saputo tried to get around it...didn;t work did it. If going for a franchise in any sport , MLS , NHL, NFL, NBA etc who HAVE to pay the expansion fee, if your not willing (Saputo) they just stay
away sand stop wasting peoples time. Montreal and the Impact won't be missed cause they were never there to begin with. The league is heading i the right direction by getting rid of the pretenders of owners and keeping the real deals,
That must make MLSE geniuses just because they paid their fee and knew just what the fan support for TFC would be like. Great soccer minds they are, eh? ;)

[rocker]

MLS is taking a risk that they are ready to move into the big leagues. If they're right then Saputo will look back in 20 years and think he blew it. If MLS goes the way of NASL that would have been a $40 million expansion fee down the drain.

Visionaries are willing to take that risk. And personally I think if they are worried about MLS becoming the NASL they are misguided since MLS isn't run in any way like the NASL. Indeed, spending 40 mil in MLS is much less risky than doing the same in the USL.
If anything, what i hear about people expecting the USL to compete with larger salaries and no cap sounds like the NASL.

The upside of getting in MLS is so much greater than the upside of being in a league with Charleston and Rochester. Saputo needs to stop being so pragmatic and be a visionary.

[Cashcleaner]

Visionaries are willing to take that risk. And personally I think if they are worried about MLS becoming the NASL they are misguided since MLS isn't run in any way like the NASL. Indeed, spending 40 mil in MLS is much less risky than doing the same in the USL.
If anything, what i hear about people expecting the USL to compete with larger salaries and no cap sounds like the NASL.

The upside of getting in MLS is so much greater than the upside of being in a league with Charleston and Rochester. Saputo needs to stop being so pragmatic and be a visionary.

I like that remark. Visionaries are willing to take risks. Garber has shown he has little vision, only an interest in the here-and-now. He's not willing to give Saputo a break, even though most people would concede that Montreal has the best bid out of all. Montreal is actually one of the safest bets for the league and has the most potential to make money out of most contenders.

Garber simply isn't looking at the potential of Montreal's bid. All he cares about is the cash they can fork up-front. Is that really the responsible way to go about expansion?

[twistedchinaman]

Garber has so far proved to be a moron, sorta along the same lines as Bettman. You can only hope that people like these will be relieved of their duties when their economic downturn starts turning the screws o' pain.

Hell, has any modern commissioner of any sporting league in recent memory shown any visionary capabilities?

[mednus]

Visionaries are willing to take that risk.

The upside of getting in MLS is so much greater than the upside of being in a league with Charleston and Rochester. Saputo needs to stop being so pragmatic and be a visionary.


Saputo IS a visionary he just dosen't share the same vision as MLS!

Look at what he has done with the Impact. It seems he is still not sold on MLS/SUM making a profit. Alot of selling goes into the SUM part of the expansion deal but remember the "exclusive" rights SUM holds could go somewhere else in 2014 (Higher Bid) and then the "profit" making abilities of some MLS teams will decrease and destabilise.

[Blizzard]

Garber has so far proved to be a moron, sorta along the same lines as Bettman. You can only hope that people like these will be relieved of their duties when their economic downturn starts turning the screws o' pain.

Hell, has any modern commissioner of any sporting league in recent memory shown any visionary capabilities?

I think the role of commissioner has changed over the years. Remember that they have their job at the whim of the board of directors of their respective leagues.

It's not like Garber can say to the board, "I've accepted Montreal even though they are only going to end up paying us less than anybody else".

The board votes on these things. He is a figurehead.

If he doesn't do what the board wants, they'll kick his ass out of town.

[Blizzard]

I like that remark. Visionaries are willing to take risks. Garber has shown he has little vision, only an interest in the here-and-now. He's not willing to give Saputo a break, even though most people would concede that Montreal has the best bid out of all. Montreal is actually one of the safest bets for the league and has the most potential to make money out of most contenders.

Garber simply isn't looking at the potential of Montreal's bid. All he cares about is the cash they can fork up-front. Is that really the responsible way to go about expansion?

Ya but CC, it's not up to Garber, it's up to the members of the league. They vote on who they accept into the league. Why would they accept such a low ball bid if they have other parties willing to pay the full freight.

I don't think Montreal has the best bid at all. They want to pay less than anybody else to join the league. It was nonsensical of Joey to think he could pull that off.

When Joey low-balled with a joke of an offer, he shot himself in the foot.

[Parkdale]

The board votes on these things. He is a figurehead.

If he doesn't do what the board wants, they'll kick his ass out of town.


and we all know how well these non-elected soccer boards / committees / associations function in North America, right?


The long and the short of it for me: The MLS was more interested in taking cash for a franchise than it was in promoting the right team to the league.

[rocker]

Saputo is about as much a visionary now as a blind man.

Whatever he did 10+ years ago to save soccer in Montreal is old news. Now that's he's the big fish, any creativity, any sense of the future, is gone.
Now he's holding on to his power and willing to be the big fish in the little pond with his soccer moms.
He doesn't give a crap about the USL. He gives a crap about soccer in Montreal, and that's it.
That's a radically different perspective than the one MLS has, which is "all for one." That makes no sense to Saputo unless it's on his terms.

Saputo's success is based on spending more money than his fellow clubs. Wow, what a competitive strategy. He wouldn't know how to survive in MLS because he wouldn't be able to spend more than his fellow teams.

[Steve]

and we all know how well these non-elected soccer boards / committees / associations function in North America, right?


The long and the short of it for me: The MLS was more interested in taking cash for a franchise than it was in promoting the right team to the league.

Though I agree Montreal was a strong bid, they weren't the only bid.

Frankly, this huge low-ball bid (including a cheap ass stadium enhancement) tells me one thing: Saputo would not have been good for MLS. He is offering so little money because he's still thinking minor league! He's not planning on making his team a huge financial success, he's quite content with the level he's at right now. He doesn't want to spend because he doesn't plan to get a return on that spending. Either he doesn't think the Montreal crowd would react well to MLS, or just doesn't care. Either way, he obviously doesn't see growth in MLS, he just sees another league to put his "good enough" team into. Again, that's not who I want in my league. I want owners willing to drop $100M + on a new, impressive, stadium because they believe MLS is going to grow (and will work their asses off to make it happen).

Face it, Saputo is out of his league. He doesn't believe in MLS, and he didn't care that much if he made it in. He's making a fuss now and trying to blame it on MLS because he doesn't want his current fans to get pissed at HIM for screwing up the deal. If Montreal wants in, Saputo needs to get out.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I agree that Saputo doesn't want or to a certain extant need MLS right now and is going through motions for the fans but to think he and Gillette couldn't pay the $$ is unfounded. If we get more Canadian teams in the league that's nice but in a way I hope we build the V cup more. It's worth more and every meeting is more exclusive than the MLS schedule.

[trane]

and we all know how well these non-elected soccer boards / committees / associations function in North America, right?


The long and the short of it for me: The MLS was more interested in taking cash for a franchise than it was in promoting the right team to the league.

That is the bottom line, and that is the problem, as many have already pointed out.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Saputo is going to regret this like those canadian teams did back when we had a league in the 70s

[Beach_Red]

I agree that Saputo doesn't want or to a certain extant need MLS right now and is going through motions for the fans but to think he and Gillette couldn't pay the $$ is unfounded. If we get more Canadian teams in the league that's nice but in a way I hope we build the V cup more. It's worth more and every meeting is more exclusive than the MLS schedule.

Okay, just so I get this straight, when we win the V Cup, the league and the play-offs it's called the "Treble," right?

;)

[Oldtimer]

MLS expansion fee won't scare away Whitecaps

Vancouver group undaunted by Montreal's pullout


Ian Walker, Vancouver Sun

Published: Tuesday, November 25, 2008
Vancouver Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi isn't into reading into things.
So despite a confusing turn of events this weekend, the longtime soccer executive said Monday he remains confident in Major League Soccer's desire for additional Canadian franchises. More specifically, one in Vancouver.
On Friday, MLS commissioner Don Garber announced in his annual state-of-the-league address that the Montreal Impact had withdrawn its bid because of financial concerns arising from the $40 million expansion fee.




Two days later, Garber amended his comments by saying the league actually had not retained the bid.
While it could be a simple matter of semantics, more concerning for Vancouver soccer fans should be Garber's comments that more Canadian franchises "take away from growing our footprint and our television ratings in the United States."


http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=a0af2cc5-5873-45db-a550-724e0daac136

Unlike Saputo, who thinks that the positives deserve a lower expansion fee, Lenarduzzi has a more realistic appraisal: negatives = TV coverage, positives can out way the negatives, but require the full fee.

[Pookie]

: Saputo would not have been good for MLS. He is offering so little money because he's still thinking minor league! He's not planning on making his team a huge financial success, he's quite content with the level he's at right now. He doesn't want to spend because he doesn't plan to get a return on that spending. Either he doesn't think the Montreal crowd would react well to MLS, or just doesn't care. Either way, he obviously doesn't see growth in MLS, he just sees another league to put his "good enough" team into. Again, that's not who I want in my league. I want owners willing to drop $100M + on a new, impressive, stadium because they believe MLS is going to grow (and will work their asses off to make it happen).


I find it a little ironic that the word "visionary" comes to mind in the same argument that encourages the growth of MLS beyond "minor league" status.

I drink the MLS Kool-Aid, heck my 3 year old knows the chants. But I'm also realistic.

A league that has a salary cap of 2.5M (DP aside), no major network TV contract and a 15 home game schedule in which to draw on average 15k fans, isn't really in a position to compete and grow.

You can't retain players on the open market when you have to fit that within a very low salary cap. The league will attract developing players who will then leave or it will attract retiring or "problem" players that can't get their ticket punched elsewhere.

Growth of MLS will always be limited by the environment in which they operate.

Unless of course, you are willing to pay more than your $30/ticket.

I'm sure people have visions of MLS growing and attracting high calibre players. I'm not sure those same people embrace the concept of Personal Seat License fees to go along with a much higher ticket price that would support that vision of growth.

Enjoy the league for what it is. Saputo did the math, didn't see a future return on his investment. Others will take that risk and hope that the vision of growth is what materializes. Just know that you are going to pay for that vision out of your wallet.

[olegunnar]

As for the valuation, look at TFC right now. Bought in at $10M, has a current valuation (after 2 years) of $44M. We got lucky. We got in at the perfect time (though Toronto helped make it that way). The league is looking much more stable, more viable, and more successful these days. TV contracts are paying money instead of taking it. Teams are all (err, mostly) moving into their own stadiums. $10M was a steal for what MLSE got. $40M might be high right now, but don't compare it to the $10M like that's the appropriate price. Investors right now are banking on the promise of the league, and it looks like a significant number of big players DO think $40M is correct, so who are we to argue?

Don't forget since our entry into the league there's been another expansion (Seattle and Philly).
They paid $30m
So our $10m isn't the correct barometer.

The $40 required now should be compared to the $30 for the last round of expansion.

[Cashcleaner]

Here's an intriguing idea...

What if Melnyk got together with Gillett and Saputo and dropped his Ottawa bid to throw some more cash into the Montreal proposal?

Melnyk seems to have a great plan and enough money to back it, but Ottawa...it's so hard to see how popular it could become.