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View Full Version : Ives: Speculating a possible move for DeRo to T.O.



canadian_bhoy
11-11-2008, 09:41 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/11/what-next-for-1.html#more (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/11/what-next-for-1.html#more)
What will happen with Brian Ching and Dwayne DeRosario?
The team's two top stars could be on the move this off-season. There have long been rumors about Ching potentially making the move to the Seattle Sounders FC. Ching played college soccer in Washington and also began his pro playing career there for the Spokane Shadow. Will the Dynamo really let him go?
Then there is DeRosario, who has long been linked to a potential move to Toronto FC. A Toronto native, DeRosario is a cult hero up north and TFC has tons of allocation money and first-round draft picks it could use to lure make Houston consider dealing. With Stuart Holden as a likely replacement, Houston could very well consider moving DeRosario to strengthen in other areas.

MG42
11-11-2008, 09:49 AM
Well we still have fieldturf, wasn't that one of DeRo's complaints about BMO?

Lucky Strike
11-11-2008, 09:53 AM
In another thread, there was a lengthy discussion about DeRosario coming. In short, questions like "Is he DP-worthy?" "Doesn't Guevara play the same position as him?" etc... were brought up.

For my own three cents (my opinion is worth more than yours :D...just kidding), the answers are no and yes. But, that being said, he could play at centre forward, or am I just imagining the fact that I heard he used to play there?

Shaughno
11-11-2008, 09:54 AM
He has been used as a forward many times.

Nuvinho
11-11-2008, 09:54 AM
IF DeRo wants to come here, I think it will either take the 2nd or 4th pick plus major allocation. I think the price for DeRo has gone down for the Dynamo because they have a replacement but also they desperately need allocation money.

4th pick/13th pick/minor allocation for DeRo
4th pick/major allocation for DeRo

Nuvinho
11-11-2008, 09:56 AM
In another thread, there was a lengthy discussion about DeRosario coming. In short, questions like "Is he DP-worthy?" "Doesn't Guevara play the same position as him?" etc... were brought up.

For my own three cents (my opinion is worth more than yours :D...just kidding), the answers are no and yes. But, that being said, he could play at centre forward, or am I just imagining the fact that I heard he used to play there?


You could see a formation like this if we have DeRo and Guevara

LM-----------Guevara-------------RM

-------DeRo-------------------------

------------------DP Striker---------

Shaughno
11-11-2008, 09:57 AM
^^ Yep, basically a 4-5-1 and push DeRo up to forward when you need to really press for a 4-4-2.

Lucky Strike
11-11-2008, 09:58 AM
You could see a formation like this if we have DeRo and Guevara

LM-----------Guevara-------------RM

-------DeRo-------------------------

------------------DP Striker---------

Sweet.

Parkdale
11-11-2008, 10:01 AM
IF DeRo wants to come here....


that's the key to the whole thing. We should only be trying to get players who actually want to play here, despite the few problems we have (turf being the main one). Guys like Nagamura and Casey in the past, or Ruiz and to a lesser extent O'Brien recently. If their heart isn't in it, then send them elsewhere.

Damien
11-11-2008, 10:15 AM
You could see a formation like this if we have DeRo and Guevara

LM-----------Guevara-------------RM

-------DeRo-------------------------

------------------DP Striker---------

Wow, that would be phenominal! Guevara and DeRo would be interchangable there.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-11-2008, 10:21 AM
i suspect that DeRo would be the dp striker.
still dont think Guevara would be cool with DeRo basically taking his position.
Not entirely convinced that signing DeRo would come at a cheap price or would be a good idea...

Ossington Mental Youth
11-11-2008, 10:22 AM
we need a poacher not another AM btw ill be happy to be proven wrong on all accounts

Nuvinho
11-11-2008, 10:24 AM
Is DeRo's contract up with MLS? If we traded for him, his salary would dictate him being paid like a non-DP player I assume.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-11-2008, 10:31 AM
nah hes signed on until 2010 or something, good point tho

tlear
11-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I been thinking about this for a while, with Houston out I think there is a good chance for us to land DeRo as a "cheap" DP. What to trade for him.. I was thinking Rickets + ? previously, but I did not realise the allocation/salary situation Houston was in, I think allocation + picks should do it!

DeRo surrounded by Guevara, Rickets, Robo.. sounds quite nice actually, sounds like a best midfield in the league.. :)

Hmm new jersey by December 10th right? I wonder what are the chances for the first model to be De Rosario :)

jloome
11-11-2008, 02:31 PM
This is a problematic situation, Gents. DeRo's been courted by Blackburn and Man City; he's a multi-award winner in this league. He'll want DP money or a guaranteed multi-year deal at the Max. Either way, that's a lot of money to spend on a role player, which is what he has largely been in Houston.

The formation cited earlier means Chad Barrett sits. We just signed him to a four-year deal.

But the 4-5-1 is about the only way we'd keep both Guevara and DeRo on the f ield at the same tinme; 4-3-3 requires one or both to play wider. Everything else means dropping our holding mid, which would be suicide (with the exception of putting DeRo upfront, which he has said he doesn't want.)

So Oss is right, if they sign DeRo as a DP it's going to cause major tactical issues on a team that lacked tactical cohesion all season.

We need a top striker. We need a defender who can marshall the backline. We need another good wide player, preferably two footed. That's it. And DeRo doesn't meet any of those qualifications.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-11-2008, 02:47 PM
Jloome,
you sir are correct.
It is for these reasons, that i do not think we will see DeRo coming to TFC any time soon. Unless we rid of Guevara, which i do not think will happen.

Nuvinho
11-11-2008, 02:55 PM
Another formation, but its very offensive for a team that has problems letting in goals, is the Christmas tree sort of formation.

====================CDM======================

LM=========================================RM

=============DeRo===========Guevara============

===================DP Striker===================

You are right tho, Chad will have to sit.

Roogsy
11-11-2008, 02:58 PM
This is a problematic situation, Gents. DeRo's been courted by Blackburn and Man City; he's a multi-award winner in this league. He'll want DP money or a guaranteed multi-year deal at the Max. Either way, that's a lot of money to spend on a role player, which is what he has largely been in Houston.

The formation cited earlier means Chad Barrett sits. We just signed him to a four-year deal.

But the 4-5-1 is about the only way we'd keep both Guevara and DeRo on the f ield at the same tinme; 4-3-3 requires one or both to play wider. Everything else means dropping our holding mid, which would be suicide (with the exception of putting DeRo upfront, which he has said he doesn't want.)

So Oss is right, if they sign DeRo as a DP it's going to cause major tactical issues on a team that lacked tactical cohesion all season.

We need a top striker. We need a defender who can marshall the backline. We need another good wide player, preferably two footed. That's it. And DeRo doesn't meet any of those qualifications.


That is a great analysis. Which is sad because I am hoping to see DeRo in TFC red. But at the end of the day it's more an emotional choice rather than an analytical one. If your points are accurate, then indeed bringing in DeRo creates problems. I will have to think about that.

What we can all agree though is that we need a solid CB. End of.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-11-2008, 03:06 PM
DeRo cult hero? don;t now about that, but he would give the attack a bit more power...Dynamo Dynasty done?

jloome
11-11-2008, 05:16 PM
Yeah, and you'd think that this is one area where both Mo and Carver have a ton of British connections, as there are numerous English players (the Sam Collins' and Michael Duberrys of the world) who aren't quite good enough for the Prem but have had decent careers at the CCC and below, making less than they could make here in some cases.

djking2
11-12-2008, 08:19 AM
This is a problematic situation, Gents. DeRo's been courted by Blackburn and Man City; he's a multi-award winner in this league. He'll want DP money or a guaranteed multi-year deal at the Max. Either way, that's a lot of money to spend on a role player, which is what he has largely been in Houston.


Unless I misunderstand your use of the term "role player" it's hardly an accurate way to describe DeRo's contribution in Houston?San Jose. Perennial all-star selection. twice MLS MVP. twice MLS Goal of the Year award and a list that goes on are the kind of achievements of an impact player not a role player.

Having said that I'm looking forward to the possibility that a stable management and coaching staff will build the roster around their playing strategy rather than fielding the players available and hoping for the best. I'd like to see DeRo in a TFC kit but I'm more interested in having a club composed of the palyers that are the best fit.

As far as role players go you don't need to look any further than Barrett.

Fort York Redcoat
11-12-2008, 08:31 AM
This is a problematic situation, Gents. DeRo's been courted by Blackburn and Man City; he's a multi-award winner in this league. He'll want DP money or a guaranteed multi-year deal at the Max. Either way, that's a lot of money to spend on a role player, which is what he has largely been in Houston.

The formation cited earlier means Chad Barrett sits. We just signed him to a four-year deal.

But the 4-5-1 is about the only way we'd keep both Guevara and DeRo on the f ield at the same tinme; 4-3-3 requires one or both to play wider. Everything else means dropping our holding mid, which would be suicide (with the exception of putting DeRo upfront, which he has said he doesn't want.)

So Oss is right, if they sign DeRo as a DP it's going to cause major tactical issues on a team that lacked tactical cohesion all season.

We need a top striker. We need a defender who can marshall the backline. We need another good wide player, preferably two footed. That's it. And DeRo doesn't meet any of those qualifications.


Blackburn, Man City? That would be a big difference in exposure when compared to Kobenhaven who couldn't close the deal. As a V I want DeRo in top leagues first plus the timing is all wrong as you've said. The striker, the back comprise the additions we need whereas DeRo would be the cherry on top.

I don't want to create more scrutiny on our national team by lumping TFC's hopes next season on DeRo's shoulders. Get people to play around him first. please and thank you.

redcard
11-12-2008, 10:00 AM
nah hes signed on until 2010 or something, good point tho

he is not signed with the dynamo, hes signed with mls...so i dont think that would be an issue...he would just be switching teams, right?

Shaughno
11-12-2008, 10:02 AM
he is not signed with the dynamo, hes signed with mls...so i dont think that would be an issue...he would just be switching teams, right?


I believe that's the case. Just like Barrett signed a new 4 year deal with the MLS not TFC.

Damien
11-12-2008, 10:16 AM
Unless we go with:
- Barrett & DP Striker
- DeRo and Guevara on attacking mid
- 2 mids & 2 centre backs
- 2 pivoting winger mid/backs (but i dont think MLS play is intelligent/fast enough)

Ossington Mental Youth
11-12-2008, 10:32 AM
DeRo has repeatedly stated he prefers the AM role, he no longer wants to play as a striker. So i would wipe the idea of DeRo as a striker out of your head (those that believe he will be our striker)

Ossington Mental Youth
11-12-2008, 10:33 AM
he is not signed with the dynamo, hes signed with mls...so i dont think that would be an issue...he would just be switching teams, right?

thats true too, but certainly Houston would demand something big for their best player

Ossington Mental Youth
11-12-2008, 10:44 AM
DJ King, you are misunderstanding Jloome, what hes suggesting is that DeRo has a specific role to play, as a result once he steps out of that role he considers himself to be less productive. His role is playing as an AM

Hitcho
11-12-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm hoping that DeRo is a very effective smokescreen while we set about pulling off a major shock with our actual DP selection, ideally a super effective striker/poacher who will net us 20 goals a season.

Commanding CB, poacher type striker and LM (in that order) is what we need in the off-season, as well as holding on to all of our current decent players of course.

MartinUtd
11-12-2008, 01:40 PM
We need a defender who can marshall the backline.

We have one, but in the context I used this year it meant giving fouls

Hitcho
11-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Another formation, but its very offensive for a team that has problems letting in goals, is the Christmas tree sort of formation.

====================CDM======================

LM=========================================RM

=============DeRo===========Guevara============

===================DP Striker===================

You are right tho, Chad will have to sit.

I was thinking the same thing, but it would leave Robbo with an awful lot of work to do. A top level CB would be even more important in that scenario.

Thing is, we have DD and Barrett already on the books, so if we're going to sign a DP striker we really need to play 2 up front, and that means 4-4-2 because there's no way we're going to survive with 3 CBs and then where do you put Wynne?

DeRo is a popular choice but not a practical one. I reckon we'll see this next season:

==============Sutton==================

Wynne===New CB===TM/JJ/Harmse===Dunivant

Rohan====Robbo======Guevara======Jimmy B

========Barrett/DD====DP Striker=======

It's the only thing that makes sense and DeRo just doesn't fit in, unless we get rid of Guevara, which would be harsh to say the least and a more expensive way of doing exactly the same thing.

jloome
11-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Perhaps the interesting question we should be posing, having reached a near-consensus on the fact that DeRo doesn't fit our current lineup, is whether it would be worth a straight-up trade for Guevara plus some allocation cash to sweeten the deal.

I realize he's technically our best player, but given his relative lack of productivity, absences, the occasional flightiness (the straight red, the late return from Honduras) and the size of the latino community in Houston, it might be better for both sides.

tlear
11-12-2008, 02:10 PM
We can always do
4-4-1-1

with front looking something like

Rickets - Robo - Guevara - Smith
----------- De Ro ------------
-------- Barret/Dichio ----------

I don't think it is a problem for Danny and Barret to share time, each adds a different dimension to our attack. DeRo and Guevara will also be able to exchange their positions dynamically, creating a very dangerous dynamic for opponents to deal with.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-12-2008, 02:23 PM
DeRo and Guevara produced about the same and would be away about the same due to international appearances. Also im not so sure Guevara whos relatively settled would be up yet again another move. Not so sure the locker room would either. even for DeRo.

shwade
11-12-2008, 03:18 PM
Isn't DeRo the one who said he'd rather play in Montreal with all the foreign support than in Toronto because of the fieldturf? So why would he come here..unless it's for DP money. If he does come here I hope we can pay him more with our allocation money than actually using the DP slot on him.

ensco
11-12-2008, 04:06 PM
Perhaps the interesting question we should be posing, having reached a near-consensus on the fact that DeRo doesn't fit our current lineup, is whether it would be worth a straight-up trade for Guevara plus some allocation cash to sweeten the deal.

I realize he's technically our best player, but given his relative lack of productivity, absences, the occasional flightiness (the straight red, the late return from Honduras) and the size of the latino community in Houston, it might be better for both sides.

Yup.

That was actually a big rumour (Ives had it, maybe others too) when Guevara was first rumoured to be coming to TFC in 2007.

It's more than Latinos, there are lots of Hondurans all along the Gulf Coast. Lots of Honduran restaurants in Houston. Best of all, there are two daily nonstop flights from Houston to Honduras, one to Tegucigalpa, one to San Pedro Sula. It's less than a 3 hour flight. He'd be very happy there.

Amado would sell tickets there, DeRo would sell tickets here. The league should force the teams to do it, a la McBride.

But I think the price would be higher than you suggest (maybe Amado plus one of our high draft picks). DeRo has produced at a much higher level than Amado has, over the last two years.