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View Full Version : Toronto FC's DP plans headed for a vote



johnmolinaro
10-30-2008, 12:22 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/10/30/toronto-fc-dp.html

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
10-30-2008, 12:26 PM
haha..what a joke....its not even rubber stamped yet! :)


Re-jections could flare off riots in toronto!!!...well atleaste here at the RPB site!!

BuSaPuNk
10-30-2008, 12:28 PM
Well hopefully Peddie can open up his large pockets and shell out the money.

UltraFootyKWC
10-30-2008, 12:28 PM
*fingers crossed*

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
10-30-2008, 12:33 PM
Well hopefully Peddie can open up his large pockets and shell out the money.

we know its there!:hump:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3006/wekw6.png (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

Lucky Strike
10-30-2008, 12:38 PM
I find it extremely hard to believe the board would ever reject the idea of spending money on a DP. Putting all benefits aside and looking at the monetary cost only, it's not very logical that MLSE would deny us a 10 million $ DP (at the very highest estimate) while spending tens of millions on a team like the Leafs.

And whatever the DP is paid, you have to figure some of it will be recouped if it's a famous name that can sell shirts and get us into the playoffs.

Shaughno
10-30-2008, 12:39 PM
Sorry, but a 'vote' on whether or not to get a DP? What a joke. Make a fucking decision and stick by it already.

The only reason they are putting it to vote....


Nobody wants to take responsibility for when the next Toronto team's decision flops.

joel
10-30-2008, 12:40 PM
No choice really. MLSE is controlled by a board of multiple investors.

Roogsy
10-30-2008, 12:41 PM
:noidea:

Um...that's how a decision IS made...

Mrs. Workie
10-30-2008, 12:41 PM
No choice really. MLSE is controlled by a board of multiple investors.


I knew they'd find a way to fuck up this team too...

Shaughno
10-30-2008, 12:42 PM
:noidea:

Um...that's how a decision IS made...


I'm sure they put up all the Leaf decisions to a vote. :rolleyes:

BuSaPuNk
10-30-2008, 12:42 PM
we know its there!:hump:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3006/wekw6.png (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

Well yeah for sure concidering the leafs had a $50 million war chest the year before the lockout. The money has been there the whole time, and don't forget collecting interest!!

Roogsy
10-30-2008, 12:43 PM
I'm sure they put up all the Leaf decisions to a vote. :rolleyes:

Leafs work within a cap. Let's compare apples to apples here please. So does TFC, but this exceeds their cap expectations. It isn't prudent business practice to exceed your stated budget without an executive vote. Anyone in business realizes this is responsible financial management.

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 12:43 PM
Sorry, but a 'vote' on whether or not to get a DP? What a joke. Make a fucking decision and stick by it already.

The only reason they are putting it to vote....


Nobody wants to take responsibility for when the next Toronto team's decision flops.

I don't think its a "vote on a DP" per se.

I seem to recall last season around November TFC going to the board with their 08 budget.

Basically, my understanding of what is happening on Nov 10th is that TFC is going to the MLSE board to have their 2009 budget approved. Within that budget is a DP.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure this is what happened last year.

Mrs. Workie
10-30-2008, 12:46 PM
I don't think its a "vote on a DP" per se.

I seem to recall last season around November TFC going to the board with their 08 budget.

Basically, my understanding of what is happening on Nov 10th is that TFC is going to the MLSE board to have their 2009 budget approved. Within that budget is a DP.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure this is what happened last year.

You could be right Mike, but that's not how the article came across.

It's all in how it's written ;)

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 12:49 PM
You could be right Mike, but that's not how the article came across.

It's all in how it's written ;)

To be fair to the article - All Mo mentioned was the DP and the board. I'm just adding input based on what I recall from last year.

All the was said by Mo was that they were taking the DP request to the board - so that's all they can report.

I still think its a much more "budgety" meeting rather than "hey Larry can we please have a DP? Pleeeeeeeeeeease"

Mrs. Workie
10-30-2008, 12:50 PM
I really do hope that's the case Mike.

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 12:51 PM
There's only one way to find out for sure.

Pauuul????

Pauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllll????

You there?

Mrs. Workie
10-30-2008, 12:52 PM
Use your Ex-President Powers to get us some Info!!!!!

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 12:54 PM
Leafs work within a cap. Let's compare apples to apples here please. So does TFC, but this exceeds their cap expectations. It isn't prudent business practice to exceed your stated budget without an executive vote. Anyone in business realizes this is responsible financial management.

This is why the whole DP thing is stupid - if every team is willing to spend money on a DP then just RAISE THE CAP!!!!

This stupid league puts so many restrictions on player recruitment - if they want to have a cap, fine, set a dollar amount and then let teams decide how many players they want to spread that over, what they want to pay each player and so on.

Sheesh.

Roogsy
10-30-2008, 12:57 PM
I 100% completely agree.

Someone before had mentioned a soft cap. Or a collar of some sort. Where teams need to spend a minimum and have a maximum with various rules and restrictions in between.

Much more flexible than...you only get a one time shot at someone who could come in and blow up your budget and give you nothing back. (Denilson anyone?).

Not a big fan of the DP rule. But if we have it...let's use it already.

Yohan
10-30-2008, 12:59 PM
This is why the whole DP thing is stupid - if every team is willing to spend money on a DP then just RAISE THE CAP!!!!

This stupid league puts so many restrictions on player recruitment - if they want to have a cap, fine, set a dollar amount and then let teams decide how many players they want to spread that over, what they want to pay each player and so on.

Sheesh.
stop making sense. the commish might have a fit

Broadview
10-30-2008, 01:00 PM
These guys might be able to help.

http://www.acmefilmworks.com/images/stories/images/cache/208_ex_presidents_260x195.jpg

olegunnar
10-30-2008, 01:01 PM
What I think will happen is since Mo specifically mentioned that there are 2 targets that that will be the excuse.

The 2 of them both said no.

If he had just said targets, then we could sit here and debate any number of players, but it's just 2 so there's the built in excuse.

No DP, no search, no nothing, no playoffs, no mo Mo.

joel
10-30-2008, 01:01 PM
It's a large individual expenditure over and above the regular operations. I think any business would be stupid to let some staff spend millions outside their regular business model, and not have to make a business case for it. It's just common sense.

flatpicker
10-30-2008, 01:08 PM
This is why the whole DP thing is stupid - if every team is willing to spend money on a DP then just RAISE THE CAP!!!!

This stupid league puts so many restrictions on player recruitment - if they want to have a cap, fine, set a dollar amount and then let teams decide how many players they want to spread that over, what they want to pay each player and so on.

Sheesh.

I would like to see the cap raised... but I do like having the DP as well.
You would have to raise the cap significantly if you were to fit a roster with a star player (Beckham, or Ljungberg for instance)
I think the best thing is to raise the cap to 3m for now, and have a DP that does not count against the cap.
This league needs to keep increasing exposure. Star players help with that, and they raise the level of play in the league.
1. Better game = more fans
2. More fans = more money
3. More money = more teams affording a DP, and a rising cap
repeat steps 1, 2 and 3 = better and better media coverage
repeat steps 1, 2 and 3 again, and again, and again...

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 01:10 PM
To be fair to the article - All Mo mentioned was the DP and the board. I'm just adding input based on what I recall from last year.

All the was said by Mo was that they were taking the DP request to the board - so that's all they can report.

I still think its a much more "budgety" meeting rather than "hey Larry can we please have a DP? Pleeeeeeeeeeease"

It's likely a complete budget/strategy/etc. meeting.
Mo and Carver make their submissions to the board. Paul B. gives the lowdown on the business end (beer sales, season ticket renewals, lots of pretty graphs). someone, maybe Paul discusses how GOLTV fits into their plans to position the brand and earn further revenues.

The board then meets behind closed doors... they discuss if they like Mo and Carver's plan (I'm assuming Paul's stuff will be a no-brainer, considering how much the team makes). If they like the plan, Mo and Carver stay on, and they approve the plan (maybe with some changes). If they don't, either they'll tell them to come back with another, or Larry will call Mo and Carver's agents to inform them that their contracts won't be renewed.

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 01:10 PM
sure you could make the argument that we'd be better with a single owner, Hey Ted Rogers, you want to drop a few million on a really good player? Sure. Done. Welcome to the team sonny.

however, that's not the case we're in, and things need to be okayed by the board. I just hope that Mo doesn't use it as a crutch like olegunnar suggested. If the players he wants don't come, then he should still be out there looking, even if the name on the budget is different. I'd hate to see him give up on the DP hunt and pin that on some anonymous board of bankers and accountants at MLSE.

Roogsy
10-30-2008, 01:13 PM
^ That doesn't even happen either since Ted owns Rogers and Rogers owns the Jays so it would be Rogers who would make the decisions in a board meeting much like what is happening at MLSE and Ted would be on that board.

The days of a single owner are behind us. Let's just accept where we are.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
10-30-2008, 01:14 PM
This is why the whole DP thing is stupid - if every team is willing to spend money on a DP then just RAISE THE CAP!!!!

This stupid league puts so many restrictions on player recruitment - if they want to have a cap, fine, set a dollar amount and then let teams decide how many players they want to spread that over, what they want to pay each player and so on.

Sheesh.


Not a bad point...but its the league who pay the teams salaries not the team!!

and its the team who pay the DP..and not the league( well they do cover 360 000 of the Dp salary..:)...

so by rasing the CAP and RIDDING the DP..would cost the LEAGUE more in the end!!...thats why the League loves the DP!!:D they dont have to dish out for the BIG stars!!

flatpicker
10-30-2008, 01:19 PM
they need to re-examine the whole 'single entity' idea in MLS.
Doesn't the NHL have a form of revenue sharing that helps the weaker clubs, yet payrolls are still the sole responsibility of the team (under a cap)?
That seems like the better way to go...

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 01:19 PM
Not a bad point...but its the league who pay the teams salaries not the team!!

and its the team who pay the DP..and not the league( well they do cover 360 000 of the Dp salary..:)...

so by rasing the CAP and RIDDING the DP..would cost the LEAGUE more in the end!!...thats why the League loves the DP!!:D they dont have to dish out for the BIG stars!!

Bingo! Cheapskate owners like Mr. Kraft don't pay a penny, but get the benefits when Becks or Blanco roll into town.

nascarguy
10-30-2008, 01:20 PM
here is a list of players i would like mojo to go after:

1.) Ruud van Nistelrooy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruud_van_Nistelrooy) with Madrid until 2010

2.) Carlos Tévez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_T%C3%A9vez)

3.) Lionel Messi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi)

4.) Thierry Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry)

5.) Fernando Torres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres)

6.) Lukas Podolski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Podolski)

7.) Miroslav Klose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Klose)

8.) Craig Bellamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bellamy)

9.) Michael Ballack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ballack)

10.) Ronaldinho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldinho) I hope mlse has €21 million

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 01:23 PM
and its the team who pay the DP..and not the league( well they do cover 360 000 of the Dp salary..:)...

So let's hope this is a transition stage from a single-entity league to an association of independent teams.

The whole point of a salary cap is to ensure that every team has an equal chance and the league doesn't simply become dominated by the richest teams. I'm not thrilled with that because the "richest teams" means the ones who sell the most tickets and why shouldn't those fans be better rewarded than the ones in cities that don't sell as many?

Oh right, because you need more than four teams to have a worthwhile league.

Okay, so I can accept the cap, but I'd still like each team to decide if they want to spend 50% on one guy or spread it around more.

Maybe there should be a cap the league spends and then some other amount, let's say $2 million, that the team spends and they can decide how many players to spend it on.

Batman
10-30-2008, 01:53 PM
I don't see anything unreasonable about having to take an annual budget to the board. I'm sure that is what this is. All MLSE teams do it, and for that matter, any business who's expenses would be effected by as much as the DP money will be would do it to.

Let's just hope it passes however, as expectations have been set, and we, the loyal revenue generators feel like we deserve it.

olegunnar
10-30-2008, 01:54 PM
The whole point of a salary cap is to ensure that every team has an equal chance and the league doesn't simply become dominated by the richest teams.

I think you're off base with this.

In my opinion the cap is to control costs (be the anti-NASL). In that way they can ensure the league is stable (no moving or folding teams that can't compete financially), which will help build credibility. All the while planning to gradually increase the cap as the league gets stronger.

The idea of a DP is a one time Cap exception, so that the "rich" teams have some flexibility or reward for being rich, without totally screwing up the competitive balance of the league.

So, I think it's about cost control and the stability of franchises rather than trying to avoid a situation like baseball, where the rich win the majority of the time.

There are successes (KKKrew winning the league) and failures (a poor team like KC paying for a DP).

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 02:15 PM
In my opinion the cap is to control costs (be the anti-NASL). In that way they can ensure the league is stable (no moving or folding teams that can't compete financially), which will help build credibility. All the while planning to gradually increase the cap as the league gets stronger.

I think it's two ways of saying the same thing. The league needs to build credibility and so they require all the teams to work within the same budget because a new league with two or three teams dominating won't have any credibility.

The fact it's a new league is important. Baseball had a sort of unofficial 'cap' for decades because it had no free agency. The same kind of unofficial agreement it had not to hire black players. It even went to the Supreme Court to get itself exempt from anti-trust legislation. Baseball was just so corrupt it's almost funny. Anyway, by the time baseball finally got forced out of this stuff, it was well-established with fans completely committed to franchises - then they even got screwed when half the franchises moved away...

So, anyway, I agree with you, the goal of the cap is to ensure stability and credibility as the league grows. The thing is, the DP exemption just makes the whole thing laughable and works against any of that credibility.

I agree it's tricky to know exactly when the league is stable enough to start to remove some of these restrictions, but I'd say with the amount of potential owners willing to pony up the kind of expansion fees they're asking for, it's very soon.

OneLoveOneEric
10-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Good to see that the same rule by board of governors strategy that has destroyed the Leafs is in place for TFC.
I see darkness coming......

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 03:10 PM
Good to see that the same rule by board of governors strategy that has destroyed the Leafs is in place for TFC.
I see darkness coming......

It's been pretty well-documented that the board spends up to the cap in other sports and are spending up to the cap for TFC, too.

This "special dispensation" DP stuff does give them an out, which is why I wish it was just included in a higher cap.

OneLoveOneEric
10-30-2008, 04:19 PM
The BOG isn't a money issue. It's that the person who should be making on-the-field decisions (ie the manager) is not able to without getting a bunch of businessmen to agree first. This is the MLSE way of working (except with the Raptors), and you can see how much success -- on the field, not at the bank -- that strategy has bred.

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Wonder if they're also gonna vote on grass and a north end?

joel
10-30-2008, 04:28 PM
here is a list of players i would like mojo to go after:

1.) Ruud van Nistelrooy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruud_van_Nistelrooy) with Madrid until 2010

2.) Carlos Tévez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_T%C3%A9vez)

3.) Lionel Messi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi)

4.) Thierry Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry)

5.) Fernando Torres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres)

6.) Lukas Podolski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Podolski)

7.) Miroslav Klose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Klose)

8.) Craig Bellamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bellamy)

9.) Michael Ballack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ballack)

10.) Ronaldinho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldinho) I hope mlse has €21 million

Pass me that bong

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 04:30 PM
I hope MLSE rethink the DP issue, we don't really need one. All we need in consistent players , one striker, one midfielder, and 2 more defenders that would make us a complete team, instead of a DP who could make the club Worse ie Beckham and the Galaxy.

flatpicker
10-30-2008, 04:33 PM
^ again... if the DP did not count against the cap then those teams would be far better off.
I think it is in the best interest of the league to make that happen... it would go a long way to better promote the star players and promote the league to new fans.

jloome
10-30-2008, 04:37 PM
This is what happens when the public collectively has a 10 second memory.

There is NOTHING new in this story. He repeated the same "we have to take it to the board" line as he did two weeks ago (although I could've sworn he said Nov. 12 not Nov. 10, but anyway) and John torqued it into "it's yeah or nay."

Always has been. Nothing new, just from a new scrum, that's all. It's called 'getting nothing new but filing a story anyway.' Almost everyone in the business does it at one time or another (although typically when they've already been scooped, at which point they wait two weeks, then regurgitate the same story as "new".)

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 04:38 PM
^ again... if the DP did not count against the cap then those teams would be far better off.
I think it is in the best interest of the league to make that happen... it would go a long way to better promote the star players and promote the league to new fans.

the league needs to be on a more solid ground before these high price players are brought in....teams that are well off, LA Galaxy, Toronto FC,
and Chicago would have no problem signing guys but the other clubs might have a problem, and this could hurt the league in general.

flatpicker
10-30-2008, 04:41 PM
^ if they can't afford them, then they don't buy them!

If the league wants to be financially stable, then simply tell teams that they must present their budget to the league to prove they are capable of affording a DP.

Teams that can afford a DP salary above the cap will get them.
They may become stronger as a result... but that's the bonus they get for being successful.
More star players in the league will draw more fans to games in weaker cities to watch them play.
More fans = more money for the poorer teams
More money = more teams affording to hire DP's
and from there, exposure for the league will continuously rise... along with the cap.

jloome
10-30-2008, 04:44 PM
here is a list of players i would like mojo to go after:

1.) Ruud van Nistelrooy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruud_van_Nistelrooy) with Madrid until 2010

2.) Carlos Tévez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_T%C3%A9vez)

3.) Lionel Messi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi)

4.) Thierry Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry)

5.) Fernando Torres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres)

6.) Lukas Podolski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Podolski)

7.) Miroslav Klose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Klose)

8.) Craig Bellamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bellamy)

9.) Michael Ballack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ballack)

10.) Ronaldinho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldinho) I hope mlse has €21 million

NONE of these players is coming to MLS, let alone Toronto. None of them. Even Thierry Henry, who has expressed an interest in finishing his career here, isn't coming this year, as his Euro career isn't done yet.


Look at the current DPs
Angel: English career was washed up.
Gallardo: French career was washed up
Blanco: Never had much of a Euro career, would've been pushed to play week in and out in Mexico.
Lopez: Euro career had long fizzled.

Of these, arguably on his BEST day, Lopez was the only guy who could be considered world class (because he was once the most expensive player in the world, not because of his performances). The others were great players in their day, but not one of them could have contended for world player of the year.

Shakes McQueen
10-30-2008, 04:55 PM
What gives with all of the baseless cynicism?

Our season has been over for about a week, and Mo (apparently) already has two DP's targeted. If both of them reject us, that leaves us several months to continue the search. I don't think Mo will just give up.

I also don't understand people guffawing at the idea of having the MLSE board approve this expense. That is how financial decisions are made these days. It's rare that you get a Mark Cuban, who simply says "yeah sure, go do it". Especially in a league that just barely crests profitability for MLSE.

And stop comparing this to the Leafs. TFC isn't the Leafs. The Maple Leafs' net worth is estimated at around $500 million dollars, and are the most profitable franchise for MLSE. What was TFC's operating PROFIT this year?

- Scott

Cashcleaner
10-30-2008, 05:09 PM
Toronto FC's pursuit of a designated player will either be rubber-stamped or rejected by the team's board of directors, according to team general manager Mo Johnston.

Where's all the people saying that he had a carte-blanche for signing a DP now? Come on out, people and show your faces. I've been saying all along that Mo never had his hands completely free to sign a DP. People kept saying the same old line of "Oh, he can get whoever he wants, he just needs to convince them. Its his fault that nobody is interested in Toronto." I'm sorry, but you're being completely niave to think the board at MLSE was just gonna hand him the money with no questions.

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Yet interim GM Cliff Fletcher is allowed to throw $4 million at Jeff Finger...

This is a complete injustice. :mad: :mad: :mad: Fuckin' MLSE...

Shakes McQueen
10-30-2008, 07:17 PM
Yet interim GM Cliff Fletcher is allowed to throw $4 million at Jeff Finger...

This is a complete injustice. :mad: :mad: :mad: Fuckin' MLSE...

The Toronto Maple Leafs make bags of money for MLSE. In addition, Finger was signed with salary cap money. A DP for TFC, would go above and beyond the cap budget, which is why it needs special approval.

- Scott

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 07:23 PM
will a DP provide the following 100%?

a) Make the playoffs...................NO

b) Give us more wins next season?.....NO

c)upset the other team memebers who get paid less?......yes

in the long run is it worth the risk.....NO...wait till season 4.

Cashcleaner
10-30-2008, 07:32 PM
^ Seriously? While I don't think anyone here would submit that a DP can magically turn this team around himself, you're making it sound like he would be more of a detriment than anything else. Dude, I think you're kidding yourself if you really think we'd be in worse shape with a DP signed.

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 08:11 PM
^ Seriously? While I don't think anyone here would submit that a DP can magically turn this team around himself, you're making it sound like he would be more of a detriment than anything else. Dude, I think you're kidding yourself if you really think we'd be in worse shape with a DP signed.


Is possible we would be better,its also possible we could be worse...
Has LA benefited from Beckham other then selling shirts and putting fannies in the seats? the team is not very good, and while you can't put all the blame on Becks, how would have LA been if thet got another star
mls player DeRo instead?

Cashcleaner
10-30-2008, 08:17 PM
^ That's true about Galaxy, but let's say you were a regular Joe McPlayer on their roster and the only words you heard out of the mouth of your owners are "Becks" and "Landon".

Yeah, the Galaxy fucked up big time putting all their eggs into one basket, but I don't think its likely we would fall into the same bad habits that they have.

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 08:21 PM
^ That's true about Galaxy, but let's say you were a regular Joe McPlayer on their roster and the only words you heard out of the mouth of your owners are "Becks" and "Landon".

Yeah, the Galaxy fucked up big time putting all their eggs into one basket, but I don't think its likely we would fall into the same bad habits that they have.


Looks like Landy is looking to Europe for next season....europe forgive us!!

La wouls be smart if they could get something for him and add a couple of defenders they might look good then.

nascarguy
10-30-2008, 08:27 PM
^ Seriously? While I don't think anyone here would submit that a DP can magically turn this team around himself, you're making it sound like he would be more of a detriment than anything else. Dude, I think you're kidding yourself if you really think we'd be in worse shape with a DP signed.

nope it take more then just one player i want a player with the skills of a dp but not the price that dream dp list that I made up was for fun you guys sould see my fifa 09 tfc team for psp and 360

eustacchio
10-30-2008, 08:47 PM
And stop comparing this to the Leafs. TFC isn't the Leafs. The Maple Leafs' net worth is estimated at around $500 million dollars, and are the most profitable franchise for MLSE.


Not only are the Leafs the most profitable for MLSE, they're the most profitable in the NHL.

"For the third straight year, the Toronto Maple Leafs are the NHL’s most valuable team, worth US$448 million."

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=cp-nhl_team_values&prov=cp&type=lgns

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 09:07 PM
nope it take more then just one player i want a player with the skills of a dp but not the price that dream dp list that I made up was for fun you guys sould see my fifa 09 tfc team for psp and 360


Henry was mentioned for the Seattle DP,but the got the Swede instead.

nascarguy
10-30-2008, 09:09 PM
Looks like Landy is looking to Europe for next season....europe forgive us!!

La wouls be smart if they could get something for him and add a couple of defenders they might look good then.
this is la we are talking about the whole state is full of dumb blondes

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-30-2008, 09:13 PM
this is la we are talking about the whole state is full of dumb blondes



:D:D

S_D
10-30-2008, 10:20 PM
LA screwed themselves by spending so much on 3 players and TFC has to be careful on what they spend it on.

I have seen mention of 10 million dollar players I can't see that happening at all. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2 million $ max. Even though TFC made a profit this season according to Forbes, to spend 2 mill, I think Mo will have to pretty much guaruntee the board a playoff match to justify the expense.

TFC has 500K from Edu, a major allocation for sucking this season and perhaps some allocation cash left over.

I can't see any major bump in the salary cap, so if TFC can find an JPA like player we should be pretty happy.

djking2
10-31-2008, 06:05 AM
There is NOTHING new in this story. He repeated the same "we have to take it to the board" line as he did two weeks ago (although I could've sworn he said Nov. 12 not Nov. 10, but anyway)

Don't forget he also made it pretty clear in that interview they favoured the idea of a Canadian. DeGuzman is out of contract in May!

Steve
10-31-2008, 09:16 AM
The BOG isn't a money issue. It's that the person who should be making on-the-field decisions (ie the manager) is not able to without getting a bunch of businessmen to agree first. This is the MLSE way of working (except with the Raptors), and you can see how much success -- on the field, not at the bank -- that strategy has bred.

What the hell? Have you ever worked in any kind of business? You seriously think Mo should just be able to sign anyone he wants, up to any price he wants, and not get approval for it? I mean, TFC has a budget, they can spend that budget on what they need to without going to the board for approval, because the board can't be bothered by every little thing. But (even assuming this isn't a normal budget meeting for TFC) the DP salary does not fit within that normal budget. So, if, in a business, you need to spend money over and above your normal budget, you need to seek approval. The more money it is, the higher the approval that is necessary. It's fairly basic stuff.

So, you, Mr. "Let Mo sign anyone he wants". How much do you think he should spend? 2 Million? 10 Million? 20 Million? Remember, any expenditure must increase revenue by MORE THAN the cost. So, if you say 10 million dollars, what is your justification that that 10 million dollar player will bring in more than an extra 10 million dollars to the club? Oh I see, you don't know. In fact, Mo probably doesn't know. His job isn't to think about that. Hence, he has to go to the businessmen so they can ensure he is making a sound investment.

Sure, it may sound like silly capitalism to you, but it's the reason our team exists. It's the reason this league exists. Leagues built on sound financial principles will last much longer and continue to be more stable.

Yohan
10-31-2008, 09:20 AM
What the hell? Have you ever worked in any kind of business? You seriously think Mo should just be able to sign anyone he wants, up to any price he wants, and not get approval for it? I mean, TFC has a budget, they can spend that budget on what they need to without going to the board for approval, because the board can't be bothered by every little thing. But (even assuming this isn't a normal budget meeting for TFC) the DP salary does not fit within that normal budget. So, if, in a business, you need to spend money over and above your normal budget, you need to seek approval. The more money it is, the higher the approval that is necessary. It's fairly basic stuff.

So, you, Mr. "Let Mo sign anyone he wants". How much do you think he should spend? 2 Million? 10 Million? 20 Million? Remember, any expenditure must increase revenue by MORE THAN the cost. So, if you say 10 million dollars, what is your justification that that 10 million dollar player will bring in more than an extra 10 million dollars to the club? Oh I see, you don't know. In fact, Mo probably doesn't know. His job isn't to think about that. Hence, he has to go to the businessmen so they can ensure he is making a sound investment.

Sure, it may sound like silly capitalism to you, but it's the reason our team exists. It's the reason this league exists. Leagues built on sound financial principles will last much longer and continue to be more stable.
but the fans 'deserve' an expensive 'world class' player!

Steve
10-31-2008, 09:27 AM
but the fans 'deserve' an expensive 'world class' player!

It's true, I'm totally entitled to a mutli-million dollar player, isn't that printed somewhere on the back of my 15 dollar ticket?

OneLoveOneEric
10-31-2008, 09:28 AM
What the hell? Have you ever worked in any kind of business? You seriously think Mo should just be able to sign anyone he wants, up to any price he wants, and not get approval for it? I mean, TFC has a budget, they can spend that budget on what they need to without going to the board for approval, because the board can't be bothered by every little thing. But (even assuming this isn't a normal budget meeting for TFC) the DP salary does not fit within that normal budget. So, if, in a business, you need to spend money over and above your normal budget, you need to seek approval. The more money it is, the higher the approval that is necessary. It's fairly basic stuff.

So, you, Mr. "Let Mo sign anyone he wants". How much do you think he should spend? 2 Million? 10 Million? 20 Million? Remember, any expenditure must increase revenue by MORE THAN the cost. So, if you say 10 million dollars, what is your justification that that 10 million dollar player will bring in more than an extra 10 million dollars to the club? Oh I see, you don't know. In fact, Mo probably doesn't know. His job isn't to think about that. Hence, he has to go to the businessmen so they can ensure he is making a sound investment.

Sure, it may sound like silly capitalism to you, but it's the reason our team exists. It's the reason this league exists. Leagues built on sound financial principles will last much longer and continue to be more stable.


First off, calm down.
Second, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My fears about this management structure are twofold:
1. I don't for a second believe that the "DP meeting" is only about budget. MLSE track records have shown us that they probably want a hand in naming the player to be bought as well, which is where the line between a business decision and a football decision ends. Sure, you can say that the name on the shirt dictates revenues, and therefore it's their business, but I'd say that football decisions HAVE to belong to the manager, or else any chance of a cohesive long-term plan goes out the window. And for those who say "TFC aren't the Leafs", you're right, but all I can go on regarding MLSE is the Leafs and the Raptors, and both of those teams (until Colangelo) had ownership butting in on player decisions.
2. My other issue with this is why is this meeting only happening now?? Why would a DP only be on the table now? Makes no sense to me.

PS -- that's how you write a response without being a douchebag.

Steve
10-31-2008, 09:47 AM
First off, calm down.
Second, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My fears about this management structure are twofold:
1. I don't for a second believe that the "DP meeting" is only about budget. MLSE track records have shown us that they probably want a hand in naming the player to be bought as well, which is where the line between a business decision and a football decision ends. Sure, you can say that the name on the shirt dictates revenues, and therefore it's their business, but I'd say that football decisions HAVE to belong to the manager, or else any chance of a cohesive long-term plan goes out the window. And for those who say "TFC aren't the Leafs", you're right, but all I can go on regarding MLSE is the Leafs and the Raptors, and both of those teams (until Colangelo) had ownership butting in on player decisions.
2. My other issue with this is why is this meeting only happening now?? Why would a DP only be on the table now? Makes no sense to me.

PS -- that's how you write a response without being a douchebag.

Until that line anyway ;)

Yes, I agree to an extent that the board shouldn't name players, but in a way they have to be involved. This is the way I see it: When Mo has his eye on some players, he goes to the board, and asks for a certain amount of money to try to sign them. They make sure the money is reasonable for the caliber of player it is (and of course they will have to rely on people who know soccer to help them determine that).

That means Mo might have gone to the board before, in fact, maybe he went there for up to, say, 1 million dollars for a DP. Within that, the board could have said "we trust you, sign anyone for 1 million dollars". Now, maybe he sees a player worth 3 million dollars, so goes to the board to justify why this player is worth it from both the business, and the player end.

Now, obviously this is all speculation, but you can see where I'm coming from hopefully. It's only prudent for a board to get involved in large money expenditures, even if they trust the person spending the money. It might just be a formality, a form of business controls necessary by MLSE. Mo might already have the informal go ahead by the board, but he needs them to sign off. We really don't know, and just because there is a BOG meeting, doesn't mean TFC is going down the wrong path (which was really my only point).

OneLoveOneEric
10-31-2008, 09:52 AM
^^^Agreed that we don't know. And there's obviously no point in engaging in speculation, but I will say that the scenario you have described suggests a level of sense and rationality from a group of men that very rarely have shown that in the past.

brad
10-31-2008, 09:54 AM
2. My other issue with this is why is this meeting only happening now?? Why would a DP only be on the table now? Makes no sense to me.

I'd guess that they wanted to wait until the season is over before deciding. If we'd made the playoffs, that may have influenced the decision on approval or the amount available (if approved). The results of the playoffs themselves may also be relevant. DP's have had very little bearing on winning things in this league so far. One of the things that Mo is going to have to convince the board on is why a DP is so important to us. And he's going to have to address the fact that the best teams in the league do not have one.

I'd also bet they wanted to hold out until all the season ticket renewals and additional sales were finished.

Finally, they probably already had the board meeting scheduled for then.

Marco2K
10-31-2008, 05:22 PM
Well if MO can get us 2 DP type players that would be amazing.

the Money will be there. We need to sign the right guy. this guy must be good.

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-31-2008, 05:30 PM
LA screwed themselves by spending so much on 3 players and TFC has to be careful on what they spend it on.

I have seen mention of 10 million dollar players I can't see that happening at all. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2 million $ max. Even though TFC made a profit this season according to Forbes, to spend 2 mill, I think Mo will have to pretty much guaruntee the board a playoff match to justify the expense.

TFC has 500K from Edu, a major allocation for sucking this season and perhaps some allocation cash left over.

I can't see any major bump in the salary cap, so if TFC can find an JPA like player we should be pretty happy.


DP = tickets prices going up...thats a fact....but Mo can;t guarentee
playoff spot, no one can. Its a gamble, TFC are they willing to take it?

Cashcleaner
10-31-2008, 05:41 PM
What the hell? Have you ever worked in any kind of business? You seriously think Mo should just be able to sign anyone he wants, up to any price he wants, and not get approval for it? I mean, TFC has a budget, they can spend that budget on what they need to without going to the board for approval, because the board can't be bothered by every little thing. But (even assuming this isn't a normal budget meeting for TFC) the DP salary does not fit within that normal budget. So, if, in a business, you need to spend money over and above your normal budget, you need to seek approval. The more money it is, the higher the approval that is necessary. It's fairly basic stuff.

So, you, Mr. "Let Mo sign anyone he wants". How much do you think he should spend? 2 Million? 10 Million? 20 Million? Remember, any expenditure must increase revenue by MORE THAN the cost. So, if you say 10 million dollars, what is your justification that that 10 million dollar player will bring in more than an extra 10 million dollars to the club? Oh I see, you don't know. In fact, Mo probably doesn't know. His job isn't to think about that. Hence, he has to go to the businessmen so they can ensure he is making a sound investment.

Sure, it may sound like silly capitalism to you, but it's the reason our team exists. It's the reason this league exists. Leagues built on sound financial principles will last much longer and continue to be more stable.


Steve, your argument would make sense if we're talking about signing several players each with multi-million dollar contracts. But we're not. We're talking about one player that might fetch, at the very most, maybe 3 million per year.

Do you really believe Fletcher had to go to Peddie and the board to pay the same amount for Hagman, Antropov, or Bell?

That's the whole crux of the argument. It seems only TFC has to jump through hoops to get people signed, and it's only for one individual.

jloome
10-31-2008, 06:21 PM
Steve, your argument would make sense if we're talking about signing several players each with multi-million dollar contracts. But we're not. We're talking about one player that might fetch, at the very most, maybe 3 million per year.

Do you really believe Fletcher had to go to Peddie and the board to pay the same amount for Hagman, Antropov, or Bell?

That's the whole crux of the argument. It seems only TFC has to jump through hoops to get people signed, and it's only for one individual.

I doubt that's the case. I've interviewed a lot of pro sports execs and my impression has been that operating budgets as a whole are usually profered to a board, but with a substantial attached explanation of where the salary portions of those budgets are going.

So it would be normal for TFC to take the same approach: approve a total budget figure, and if the board feels it needs to know ask specifically about the breakdown.

Maple Leaf Red
10-31-2008, 07:51 PM
Where's all the people saying that he had a carte-blanche for signing a DP now? Come on out, people and show your faces. I've been saying all along that Mo never had his hands completely free to sign a DP. People kept saying the same old line of "Oh, he can get whoever he wants, he just needs to convince them. Its his fault that nobody is interested in Toronto." I'm sorry, but you're being completely niave to think the board at MLSE was just gonna hand him the money with no questions.


As Pat Quinn always said, the board always rubberstamped his budget. Mo does have carte blanche to do it within a budget which is no different that any other manager in any other league in any other sport in the world. But then that takes away everyone's ability to bash MLSE so just pretend it's not true.

Maple Leaf Red
10-31-2008, 07:53 PM
1. I don't for a second believe that the "DP meeting" is only about budget. MLSE track records have shown us that they probably want a hand in naming the player to be bought as well, which is where the line between a business decision and a football decision ends.

Name an instance when that has been true with any of the other MLSE teams.

Bluenose13
10-31-2008, 08:00 PM
Name an instance when that has been true with any of the other MLSE teams.Don't hold your breath......It has never happened & probably never will.

Beach_Red
10-31-2008, 11:08 PM
So it would be normal for TFC to take the same approach: approve a total budget figure, and if the board feels it needs to know ask specifically about the breakdown.

This is why I hate the whole DP thing so much. The team will spend right up tp tha cap on its own, but as the DP is some extra, "special" expense, it has to be approved. If the cap was simply higher then the team wouldn't need special appro... oh hell, we've gone over this enough...

LucaGol
11-01-2008, 08:10 AM
This is the most inane issue ever.

Why does DP mean that you have to spend 5 million dollars a year on a player?

Because you can?

Obviously you want to exploit the rule and maximize the level of player that you can bring in ... but for heaven's sake if you're not going to bring in a world class player ... don't let the spot go to waste.

Even if you're spending 100k more than the 400k limit your team is gaining an advantage over the cap limitations. And for the past 2 seasons our management has had this stupid idea that the DP has to be a multi-million dollar athlete.

A DP in Toronto will only be about one thing with MLSE ... marketing. I said this in year one. If ticket sales drop off ... say hello to a DP.

Bluenose13
11-01-2008, 08:56 AM
This is the most inane issue ever.

Why does DP mean that you have to spend 5 million dollars a year on a player?

Because you can?

Obviously you want to exploit the rule and maximize the level of player that you can bring in ... but for heaven's sake if you're not going to bring in a world class player ... don't let the spot go to waste.

Even if you're spending 100k more than the 400k limit your team is gaining an advantage over the cap limitations. And for the past 2 seasons our management has had this stupid idea that the DP has to be a multi-million dollar athlete.

A DP in Toronto will only be about one thing with MLSE ... marketing. I said this in year one. If ticket sales drop off ... say hello to a DP.Hmmm.............No drop off & a DP is on it's way :noidea:

Maple Leaf Red
11-01-2008, 09:08 AM
Even if you're spending 100k more than the 400k limit your team is gaining an advantage over the cap limitations. And for the past 2 seasons our management has had this stupid idea that the DP has to be a multi-million dollar athlete.

No, they have had this stupid idea that signing the wrong DP clogs up a valuable tool, possibly for multiple years, that they can use to help a competitive team get over the hump.

Those idiots want to bring in the most impactful DP that they can. What a bunch of maroons.

Fort York Redcoat
11-01-2008, 10:01 AM
The first two seasons have seen improvement but not to the point that we're winning the league with adding a DP. The DP should be added this year but just make sure that he'll fit in to the style we play best.

rocker
11-01-2008, 10:25 AM
The DP should be added this year but just make sure that he'll fit in to the style we play best.

this is key.
I was thinking the other day about the situations that DPs have come into.
I think you have to have the right situation before you take the plunge. Otherwise it's just wasted money.

Situations:
1) LA -- shit team; ADD DP -- Becks; RESULT = still a shit team
2) Kansas City -- barely a playoff team; ADD DP -- Lopez; RESULT = still barely a playoff team
3) DC United -- class of the league; ADD DP -- Gallardo; RESULT = out of playoffs
4) New York -- barely playoff team; ADD DP -- Angel; RESULT = barely playoff team
5) Chicago -- shit team; ADD DP -- Blanco; RESULT = good team

(i'm not even gonna bother including Denilson's run with FC Dallas or Reyna's in NY..).

So we can see that only in 1 of 5 instances did the DP make a drastic change in the team. Yes, these teams had very different circumstances and the teams did not all stay the same and just added a DP. The DP was one change of many, in some teams' cases. But i think it shows that a DP isn't a cure-all. A DP can't help you overcome being a shit team, or help you overcome many other changes going on in the roster. Also, if a DP gets hurt you're in trouble if he's supposed to be "the man".

I think the key thing is to get your team in order first. Have some continuity, chemistry, some young players who are good and will stick around (see: Barrett). Then see where your major hole is.... and if you can't plug it with MLS players, and you have 400K and a roster spot, get the DP.

Cashcleaner
11-01-2008, 10:33 AM
As Pat Quinn always said, the board always rubberstamped his budget. Mo does have carte blanche to do it within a budget which is no different that any other manager in any other league in any other sport in the world. But then that takes away everyone's ability to bash MLSE so just pretend it's not true.

Dude, once again I have to point out that we're not paying for a Chris Bosh and laying down 15 million. If you think that signing one single player who might be worth 3 million per year at the most necessitates board approval, then you have been suckered. There are quite a few Raptors and Leafs players getting paid more than TFC entire payroll combined. Perhaps in those instances approval was required by the brass, but it shouldn't when we are talking about one individual who still won't get anywhere near the same cash as the big earners on the other two teams.

Oldtimer
11-01-2008, 10:59 AM
I think the key thing is to get your team in order first. Have some continuity, chemistry, some young players who are good and will stick around (see: Barrett). Then see where your major hole is.... and if you can't plug it with MLS players, and you have 400K and a roster spot, get the DP.

Good points (as usual). We have a hole in our squad -- it's called goal-scorer. The right DP could address that issue, much as Blanco has for Chicago.

Beach_Red
11-01-2008, 11:04 AM
Good points (as usual). We have a hole in our squad -- it's called goal-scorer. The right DP could address that issue, much as Blanco has for Chicago.

How many goals do you think TFC can expect next year from Barrett and Ibrahim? And, I guess Dichio. It wuld be awfully nice to add a proven goal scorer to the mix, wouldn't it?

I guess it's kind of dumb to spend DP money on a CB, but that seems like just as big a hole to fill, doesn't it?

Fort York Redcoat
11-01-2008, 11:17 AM
this is key.

I think the key thing is to get your team in order first. Have some continuity, chemistry, some young players who are good and will stick around (see: Barrett). Then see where your major hole is.... and if you can't plug it with MLS players, and you have 400K and a roster spot, get the DP.

Yep I think I think we're on the same wavelength here. I just think Mo didn't build the team he wanted to add the finishing touch to in 2 years (not a newsflash, I know) but to hold out another year looking at MLS quality only vs DP seems a bit negligent to me.

LucaGol
11-01-2008, 11:40 AM
No, they have had this stupid idea that signing the wrong DP clogs up a valuable tool, possibly for multiple years, that they can use to help a competitive team get over the hump.

Those idiots want to bring in the most impactful DP that they can. What a bunch of maroons.

Its only a valuable tool if its used.

Secondly, there's no guarantee that after months or even years of deliberation on who the "correct" DP for the team will be that said player will be impactful.

My sole point is that the DP slot does not necessarily have to be best utilized as if we're aiming for a high score on how far over the cap we can go.

Let's just bring in a useful player from wherever in the world he's from and disassociate the term DP with someone of David Beckham's stature.

That being said, if Thierry Henry or Andriy Shevchenko want to come to TFC ... then great ... but don't let me sit through another season of a DP'less team. Use it on someone please.

S_D
11-01-2008, 11:56 AM
^^^^ ahhh finally some sanity.

People have to get away from well the Leafs pay Finger xxx and Bosch YYY. They work in a world of much larger salary caps.

MLSE didn't buy TFC to be subsidized by it's other business units just because they have the money. Not only does it have to make sense on the pitch, it has to make sense business wise.

Mark in Ottawa
11-01-2008, 01:48 PM
Mo is just preparing us for the inevitable.
He will have a set budget and will try to get the best player(s) that he can within that restriction.

If he doesn't get a player of the quality the fans demand (Carlos Tevez... c'mon get real here folks) there will be many reasons and $$ will surely be part of it.

LucaGol
11-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Apparently Juan Pablo Angel is thinking about going back to River Plate.

He's already familiar with the league, he knows what TFC is all about. Maybe if we throw him an extra 20% on what he's currently earning ... he'll come play at BMO for a couple years before heading back to Argentina.

Red Bulls are probably going to want to splash the cash for Sheva, Ronnie or Henry anyways seeing as they will be moving into their new park, rather than resigning JPA.

S_D
11-01-2008, 05:32 PM
I watched quite a few Red Bull games this season and you could see JPA getting right pissed off with the poor service and bungled plays. Reminded me of watching Robert getting ready to explode with frustration :)

Interesting if he could be convinced to come here and it may not even take 20% uppage to do it. And not to nit pick...he is from Columbia.

jloome
11-01-2008, 09:46 PM
I watched quite a few Red Bull games this season and you could see JPA getting right pissed off with the poor service and bungled plays. Reminded me of watching Robert getting ready to explode with frustration :)

Interesting if he could be convinced to come here and it may not even take 20% uppage to do it. And not to nit pick...he is from Columbia.

And not to totally nitpick, but he's actually from Colombia. :D

jloome
11-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Is possible we would be better,its also possible we could be worse...
Has LA benefited from Beckham other then selling shirts and putting fannies in the seats? the team is not very good, and while you can't put all the blame on Becks, how would have LA been if thet got another star
mls player DeRo instead?

Uh, they're the top goal scoring team in the league because of Beckham setting up Donovan and Buddle. So yes, he has benefited them. If they had a defense, they'd be in the playoffs.

And your original argument holds no water either. You don't think adding a guaranteed 10 goals from a guaranteed 10-goal-plus scorer like Cooper or Angel would've made a difference to us getting in the playoffs? Don't kid yourself. Why do you think it was the first priority Carver publicly stated. Yes, we also need a backline. But 10 more goals is potentially three or four more wins, and that's enough to put us in.

S_D
11-01-2008, 10:50 PM
And not to totally nitpick, but he's actually from Colombia. :D

:D

damn spelling

jloome
11-02-2008, 04:20 PM
Well, Jorge Campos's sister-in-law is from B.C. THat's almost the same thing.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-02-2008, 10:51 PM
Uh, they're the top goal scoring team in the league because of Beckham setting up Donovan and Buddle. So yes, he has benefited them. If they had a defense, they'd be in the playoffs.

And your original argument holds no water either. You don't think adding a guaranteed 10 goals from a guaranteed 10-goal-plus scorer like Cooper or Angel would've made a difference to us getting in the playoffs? Don't kid yourself. Why do you think it was the first priority Carver publicly stated. Yes, we also need a backline. But 10 more goals is potentially three or four more wins, and that's enough to put us in.


10 goals would be enough to get in, as long as we suddenly leak goals
like LA did this year. Buddle there was one player i didn;'t want to see leave TO yet most on this forum did.

Oldtimer
11-03-2008, 06:18 AM
10 goals would be enough to get in, as long as we suddenly leak goals
like LA did this year. Buddle there was one player i didn;'t want to see leave TO yet most on this forum did.

Even LA fans say they wouldn't miss Buddle. The only two players they would consider a real loss to lose are Donovan and Beckham.

If you watch LA games closely, it's Beck's service that is making Buddle score.

CoachGT
11-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Last night I was at the leaf game - a corporate event. I was sitting six rows behind the leaf bench wearing my RPB bar scarf. During the second intermission, I spoke to the guy sitting in front of me - Larry Tanenbaum, Chairman of MLSE. I thanked him for MLSE's investment in soccer, and he started talking about how thrilled he's been to see the enthusiasm at the games. He mentioned RPB, so I decided to give him my scarf. He was very appreciative and wore it for the rest of the game! He made a point of showing it to a couple of other gentlemen who came to see him during the third period.

He also pointed out that Jimmy Brennan and his very pregnant wife were sitting three rows in front of us, right behind the leaf bench. His wife was almost hit by the puck cleared over the glass for the second penalty to give the 5 on 3 in the third period. I didn't speak to Jimmy - just didn't seem right to bother him on a night out.

As I was leaving, he spoke to me again, and I suggested that he wear the scarf to the board meeting next week, and he said that he would.

I just hope they make good decisions at the board to support the fans!

Nuvinho
11-05-2008, 08:52 AM
hahaha......nice work coachGT!!