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canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 08:29 AM
I thought this was already posted - but I can't find it. (if someone already has this posted please merge).

Anyways, Mo was on TFC TV talking about the season and looking towards next year.

Positives include him talking about our draft picks and amount of allocation money available. The other highlight of the vid is Mo saying we should have our DP "by January or February 2009. He said they have 2 guys potentially lined up.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=320

This is not 100% fact, but I have a reliable source that says the 2 players in question are De Guzman and De Rosario.

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 08:39 AM
If true, De Guzman would be a good choice.

DeRo is a very good player, but I'm not certain he's DP quality.

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 08:43 AM
I have been thinking about this whole "worthy of a DP thing" and have changed my tune a bit.

I used to be of the opinion that a blockbuster DP was the only way forward. But now I look at the DP as something different. All it is (or should be) is a loophole for the team to spend as much as they want on one talented player.

If the club has the ability to sign a player that is good enough that they command a salary above what would normally be offered, then why not sign them.

If we had a choice of Henry, DeGuz or DeRo it'd be a different story - but to sit on the DP rather than signing the like of DeRo to a one year deal is wrong.

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 08:49 AM
I don't want to let MLSE off the hook that easily.

We deserve a world-class player.
If they offer DeRo, say $460,000 instead of getting Henry, I mean it's better than nothing at all (which is what we've got) but it's not really what I'm expecting when they say they're going to sign a DP. Also a $60,000 cost to MLSE (with $400k paid by the league) is small change.

Where's that "World starting XI" player that Mo was blathering about earlier?

TFC Tifoso
10-30-2008, 08:50 AM
hmmm Mo's not wearing sunglasses.....this interview must've been done during "sober time".

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think they should be bringing in someone world-class as well.

All I'm saying is that until a deal can be brokered with a top-class player, they shouldn't be wasting it, it should be used on someone.


I don't want to let MLSE off the hook that easily.

We deserve a world-class player.
If they offer DeRo, say $460,000 instead of getting Henry, I mean it's better than nothing at all (which is what we've got) but it's not really what I'm expecting when they say they're going to sign a DP. Also a $60,000 cost to MLSE (with $400k paid by the league) is small change.

rocker
10-30-2008, 08:53 AM
if they got De Guzman now (when he is in his prime) I would shit myself. he would destroy this league.

regarding DeRo -- I wonder if they could get him, increase his salary, but knock it down against the cap with allocation money. Schellotto is making something like nearly a million but he doesn't count as a DP cuz they reduced his salary with allocation money.

Kenny/Boozemaster/Lenny/togetherness/Roc le Roc
10-30-2008, 08:53 AM
signing one guy no matter who it is will not make the team that much better unless the guys around him bring the goods..

11 guys on the field last time I checked.. This whole DP thing to me is a bit of smoke and mirrors thing..

but all that said , bring on Henry .. He would help..

Shakes McQueen
10-30-2008, 09:00 AM
I would die from joy if De Guzman become our DP... but... seriously? Your source says they are lining him up? He would seriously leave La Liga at 27 years old, voted MVP of his own club there, to come and play in MLS?

I just find that to be such a stretch of the imagination, that while I want to believe it, I cant. The only benefit for him would be playing in front of home crowds, but I can't imagine it's a big enough deal for him to basically end his aspirations for high-level play.

- Scott

Frick
10-30-2008, 09:02 AM
if they got De Guzman now (when he is in his prime) I would shit myself. he would destroy this league.

regarding DeRo -- I wonder if they could get him, increase his salary, but knock it down against the cap with allocation money. Schellotto is making something like nearly a million but he doesn't count as a DP cuz they reduced his salary with allocation money.

My thoughts exactly.

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 09:04 AM
to be brutally honest..... I don't want DeRo.

why you ask?

He could have come to play for us at any point in the past two years if he wanted to. He's always said he'd like to play for Toronto later in my career. Sorry bud, but we're not going to be a retirement team in a retirement league. Now don't get me wrong, I would like to see him play for us, and I understand that leaving a Championship team for the basement of the league is a hard thing to so, but I just don't get the feeling he really wanted to be here. I want someone who wants to be here, especially if we're not talking about a world-class player like Henry or someone like that.

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 09:06 AM
11 guys on the field last time I checked.. This whole DP thing to me is a bit of smoke and mirrors thing..

You're right. And if every team is spending a lot of money on a DP they've pretty much just raised the salary cap - but restricted how the teams can spend the money.

Let's hope this is just a stepping-stone to a higher salary cap that can be spread out over more players.

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 09:13 AM
If MLSE is serious about TFC becoming a top side within MLS then they should be looking to get them both in. Both Canadians, both top players, both would be brilliant in this league for us, especially in front of home fans - can can you seriously imagine what the atmosphere at BMO Field would be like if we had those two lining up for us at the opening home game of 2009?!

Realisitcally it can be done, too - de Guz as the DP and de Ro on the allocation money reduction. That would also completely solve our midfield shortage.

Agree with the comment above though re de Guz not leaving La Liga to come here, it seems unlikely. And what are the chances of Houston sending us one of their best players? Again, not likely.

I would cream myself if we got these guys, but I think they fall into the same class of likelihood as Henry to be frank. Siiiiiiggggghhhhh..... :(:(

Steve
10-30-2008, 09:13 AM
to be brutally honest..... I don't want DeRo.

why you ask?

He could have come to play for us at any point in the past two years if he wanted to. He's always said he'd like to play for Toronto later in my career. Sorry bud, but we're not going to be a retirement team in a retirement league. Now don't get me wrong, I would like to see him play for us, and I understand that leaving a Championship team for the basement of the league is a hard thing to so, but I just don't get the feeling he really wanted to be here. I want someone who wants to be here, especially if we're not talking about a world-class player like Henry or someone like that.

Though I agree with you to an extent, I'm not entirely sure you're correct in all of your assumptions. I mean, he has always been under contract to Houston, so he couldn't go play for us whenever he wanted to. Sure, last year he could have allowed his contract to lapse (he was being paid what, 140k?) then renegotiated a deal with Toronto. Of course, that would have been taking a risk, as if he got injured, or we didn't need him, or anything else bad happened, he would have been out of luck. So, at the beginning of last year, he made the prudent call, and resigned for much more money (he has a family to think about). Also, his statements about Toronto reveal exactly nothing. Yes, he says he wants to play here later, but do you really think he could say anything else? I mean, he is currently under contract. Let's say tomorrow Ricketts, instead of saying he loves Toronto, and sure, would consider a move back to England sometime in the future, instead says "I'm just waiting for the right offer, the second a decent team in England gives me an offer, I'm out of here", would you respect that? Or, worse, what if Barrett said he'd really love to play for NY, and wants to get out of here asap, would that be cool with you?

Now, I'm not saying DeRo actually wants to come play for us. All I'm saying is that it's really difficult to know his true motivations at this time.

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 09:15 AM
to be brutally honest..... I don't want DeRo.

why you ask?

He could have come to play for us at any point in the past two years if he wanted to. He's always said he'd like to play for Toronto later in my career. Sorry bud, but we're not going to be a retirement team in a retirement league. Now don't get me wrong, I would like to see him play for us, and I understand that leaving a Championship team for the basement of the league is a hard thing to so, but I just don't get the feeling he really wanted to be here. I want someone who wants to be here, especially if we're not talking about a world-class player like Henry or someone like that.

Agree with the sentiment, but the bottom line is if TFC announced his signing today, we'd all be thrilled about it. Plus it might also be a loyalty to Houston thing as much as a snub to TFC thing.

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 09:20 AM
Now, I'm not saying DeRo actually wants to come play for us. All I'm saying is that it's really difficult to know his true motivations at this time.

good point. It's hard to think he wouldn't want to come back and be a hometown hero, but it just seems to me like if he really wanted to make it happen, it would have been a done deal ages ago.

Plus I understand that leaving the Championship team for anyone else, especially a team as unstable as ours has been, would be a really hard decision to justify.

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Sure, last year he could have allowed his contract to lapse (he was being paid what, 140k?) then renegotiated a deal with Toronto. Of course, that would have been taking a risk...

Something like that would put him in the weakest possible negotiating position - certainly the guy has a professional agent who'd never do something like that.

Damien
10-30-2008, 09:33 AM
to be brutally honest..... I don't want DeRo.

why you ask?

He could have come to play for us at any point in the past two years if he wanted to. He's always said he'd like to play for Toronto later in my career. Sorry bud, but we're not going to be a retirement team in a retirement league. Now don't get me wrong, I would like to see him play for us, and I understand that leaving a Championship team for the basement of the league is a hard thing to so, but I just don't get the feeling he really wanted to be here. I want someone who wants to be here, especially if we're not talking about a world-class player like Henry or someone like that.

Maybe a poor choice of wording on DeRo's behalf. He could have meant once he's accomplished what he wanted to at Houston.

Maybe if Houston's eliminated early from the playoffs this year, he may get the feeling his time is done there.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-30-2008, 09:39 AM
My only issue with the two speculated players are that a) they a striker and an attacking midfielder, DeRo is an attacking midfielder, DeGuzman is a DM, or at very least a box to box mid and b)it just doesnt make sense that Deguzman would want to come play in the MLS, no matter how patriotic the guy is, at this point in his career.
That being said, i guess we will find out come Nov.

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 09:41 AM
or we find out Mo is just feeling us another crock of shit.

wouldn't be the first time.

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 09:49 AM
or we find out Mo is just feeling us another crock of shit.

wouldn't be the first time.

Is there anything to pin these names on Mo though? The thread opener doesn't list him anywhere as a source. If it si Mo, or anyone esle at the FO, selling us a fast one, then that's bang out of order. Those are not names ot dangle in front of the fans and then spank them really hard with. I'd be seriously pissed it that were the case.

Still, having met Canadian Bhoy a couple of times, I prefer to think this may be a possibility for now. Although I want them both. BOTH DAMMIT BOTH!!!!! :canada::canada::canada:

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 09:52 AM
Is there anything to pin these names on Mo though?


I'm not thinking about the specific players. I'm thinking of this:

Positives include him talking about our draft picks and amount of allocation money available. The other highlight of the vid is Mo saying we should have our DP "by January or February 2009". He said they have 2 guys potentially lined up.



We've heard him lie though his teeth before.

Daveisonfire
10-30-2008, 10:49 AM
This is not 100% fact, but I have a reliable source that says the 2 players in question are De Guzman and De Rosario.

Paging Big Bruva...I'm sure he'd have some kind of scoop ;)

DigzTFC!
10-30-2008, 11:07 AM
Well, I'm interested in the draft picks as it sounds like Mo is going to package Chicago's first rounder with a player for Seattle's first overall.

He also mentions that they have 2-3 players they're looking at that they've had their eye on. So, its not one of these GA's out of high school most likely unless they're are unbelievable. My suggestions: Marcus Tracy, O'Brian White, Corben Bone and Charles Renken (if he goes into the draft). If we trade with Seattle it will be be: Charles Renken 1st, O'Brian White 2nd (he has to due to international spots) and Corben Bone/Maybe Omar Gonzalez 4rth. Dan Revivo will be taken in later rounds.

As for the DP, he says he's looking at two guys (one from overseas: singular). De Guzman and DeRo could meet that mix.

I'm interested to see how he drafts. Potentially we could have O'Brian White and Marcus Tracy. Which would mean we don't need anymore forwards. Which would mean DeGuz & DeRo are fine additions

------Barrett--Tracy/White
DeRo-DeGuz---Guevara--Ricketts
Brennan--Robbo-Harmse?-Wynne
------------Sutton

Realistic? I don't know

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 11:09 AM
I'm not thinking about the specific players. I'm thinking of this:

Positives include him talking about our draft picks and amount of allocation money available. The other highlight of the vid is Mo saying we should have our DP "by January or February 2009". He said they have 2 guys potentially lined up.



We've heard him lie though his teeth before.

Ah yes. Now that, I grant you, is a valid concern. I'm not actually expecting a DP for next season. I don't doubt that the club are going after people (althoguh whoe xactly is anyone's guess) but whether any of those players will actually sign up is another matter. Personally I think we can expect more of the same from last season (ie, some good excitement at the signings of players like RR, Amado and - at the time - Robert, but that's about it, no major DP scoop).

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 11:12 AM
Well, I'm interested in the draft picks as it sounds like Mo is going to package Chicago's first rounder with a player for Seattle's first overall.

He also mentions that they have 2-3 players they're looking at that they've had their eye on. So, its not one of these GA's out of high school most likely unless they're are unbelievable. My suggestions: Marcus Tracy, O'Brian White, Corben Bone and Charles Renken (if he goes into the draft). If we trade with Seattle it will be be: Charles Renken 1st, O'Brian White 2nd (he has to due to international spots) and Corben Bone/Maybe Omar Gonzalez 4rth. Dan Revivo will be taken in later rounds.

As for the DP, he says he's looking at two guys (one from overseas: singular). De Guzman and DeRo could meet that mix.

I'm interested to see how he drafts. Potentially we could have O'Brian White and Marcus Tracy. Which would mean we don't need anymore forwards. Which would mean DeGuz & DeRo are fine additions

------Barrett--Tracy/White
DeRo-DeGuz---Guevara--Ricketts
Brennan--Robbo-Harmse?-Wynne
------------Sutton

Realistic? I don't know

I think so, although not your CB pairing! Robbo will surely be kept as part of the midfield (we'll need cover, four players isn't enough). Your draft picks, plus De Ro and de Guz, plus one decent CB to go alongside Marshall/James would represent an amazing off season for us. That really would be play-offs or bust time I think.

TFCREDNWHITE
10-30-2008, 11:54 AM
Why does it have to be DeRo...??? I mean look, i like the guy. But DP worthy?? Nah.

I want TFC to put together a real offer to Henry! Why not try? Throw him like 4/5 million a year!

For the DP slot, I want BIG BIG Names/players...I want MLSE to throw some BIG money at it!

DeGuz? ah heck sure throw him 3/4 million a year and see if he bites...

Damien
10-30-2008, 12:16 PM
Do we really think Henry would be intrigued to play in Toronto?

Don't get me wrong, i'd love it if he came.... I just don't think he would even consider it.

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 12:23 PM
We've heard him lie though his teeth before.

I don't trust Mo. He's been two-faced since... well we all know (and I'm not an Old Firm supporter).

Carver, on the other hand, has said the same things. Unless Mo is taking him for a ride, I would expect to see a DP signing. If not, Carver has already said he would step down. It's time for MLSE to anty up a small portion of their profits to aid the long-term future of our club.

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 12:40 PM
I don't trust Mo. He's been two-faced since... well we all know (and I'm not an Old Firm supporter).

So, do you buy what those supporters are selling, or do you have your own sources?

This board throws around words like "liar" and "two-faced" pretty loosely -- well, it is an internet sports forum, so I guess that's natural enough.

rocker
10-30-2008, 12:53 PM
i don't think Mo lies about potential TFC moves. He just talks too much when he's in the middle of working on a deal. when the deal fails he looks dumb because he psyched us up about it.
I don't think he's deliberately not telling the truth (the definition of a lie).
unless you have proof from accessing his brain ;)

there's HUGE difference between saying "MoJo failed to deliver" on something than saying "Mo lied to us and thus never intended to do what he said."

Yohan
10-30-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't want to let MLSE off the hook that easily.

We deserve a world-class player.

Attracting 'world class player' to a near bottom place team in a rather shitty league is not an easy thing to do.


I would die from joy if De Guzman become our DP... but... seriously? Your source says they are lining him up? He would seriously leave La Liga at 27 years old, voted MVP of his own club there, to come and play in MLS?

I just find that to be such a stretch of the imagination, that while I want to believe it, I cant. The only benefit for him would be playing in front of home crowds, but I can't imagine it's a big enough deal for him to basically end his aspirations for high-level play.

- Scott
I really can't see De Guzman coming to Toronto right now. Plus I don't think Guevara or Robbo be content coming off the bench.

Or maybe De Guzman wants to atone for his brother making shambles out of choosing Holland over Canada? ;)


Why does it have to be DeRo...??? I mean look, i like the guy. But DP worthy?? Nah.

I want TFC to put together a real offer to Henry! Why not try? Throw him like 4/5 million a year!

For the DP slot, I want BIG BIG Names/players...I want MLSE to throw some BIG money at it!

DeGuz? ah heck sure throw him 3/4 million a year and see if he bites...

You're assuming that all these top players will be let go on a free transfer, because MLS rules won't let TFC pay a hefty transfer fee.:noidea:

Oldtimer
10-30-2008, 01:37 PM
You're assuming that all these top players will be let go on a free transfer, because MLS rules won't let TFC pay a hefty transfer fee.:noidea:

You can use allocation $$$ for a transfer fee, it's been done. However, it needs special approval from Garber & Co.

Parkdale
10-30-2008, 01:46 PM
Attracting 'world class player' to a near bottom place team in a rather shitty league is not an easy thing to do.

http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/img/2008_06_22/moneyTruck.jpg


Rocker said:

i don't think Mo lies about potential TFC moves. He just talks too much when he's in the middle of working on a deal. when the deal fails he looks dumb because he psyched us up about it.
I don't think he's deliberately not telling the truth (the definition of a lie).
unless you have proof from accessing his brain ;)

there's HUGE difference between saying "MoJo failed to deliver" on something than saying "Mo lied to us and thus never intended to do what he said."

I prefer the old Perry Mason version. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Clearly we've been misled in some cases. Oh, and ask King Dave about his golf caddy.

Yohan
10-30-2008, 02:00 PM
You can use allocation $$$ for a transfer fee, it's been done. However, it needs special approval from Garber & Co.
And no matter how much allocation money Toronto has, it will not be anywhere you need to get someone like Henry. At least few million required.
I know Mo's been squirreling away allocation money, but I doubt we have a million

invictusTFC
10-30-2008, 02:17 PM
I'll eat my TFC Jersey and season ticket holder scarf if TFC signs either Henri or DeGuzman. I honestly think some people are dreaming in technicolour in these forums. Take off your rose coloured glasses for a bit and join us in the real world...

canadian_bhoy
10-30-2008, 02:18 PM
Can I throw this one in the ring if we get JDG!

To the tune of I dream of Genie

(pronounced Jewel Yin)

Julian Julian Deguzman
Julian Julian Deguzman
Julian Julian Deguzman
de dut dut dut
Da dut dut dut da dut da
Da dut dut dut da dut da
Da dut dut dut da dut da
Da dut dut dut da dut da

for those that don't know the song
w1dlLxrBn1c

invictusTFC
10-30-2008, 02:23 PM
I also love the way Mo essentially deflected any potential backlash to the MLSE board if they can't land a DP. "Well I did my job, the offer is on the table. Its not my fault if the board doesn't accept it"!

Blizzard
10-30-2008, 02:46 PM
i don't think Mo lies about potential TFC moves. He just talks too much when he's in the middle of working on a deal. when the deal fails he looks dumb because he psyched us up about it.
I don't think he's deliberately not telling the truth (the definition of a lie).
unless you have proof from accessing his brain ;)

there's HUGE difference between saying "MoJo failed to deliver" on something than saying "Mo lied to us and thus never intended to do what he said."

I totally agree Rocker. He IMO has done exactly what you have said. He has not intentionally told us falsehoods. He has been foolish by saying too much before things have been locked down. If he says he's talking to someone, I believe him. The thing is, he shouldn't have told us in the first place!!!

B

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 02:58 PM
I'll eat my TFC Jersey and season ticket holder scarf if TFC signs either Henri or DeGuzman. I honestly think some people are dreaming in technicolour in these forums. Take off your rose coloured glasses for a bit and join us in the real world...

Henry and De Guzman are not in the same bracket, in fairness. For a start Henry is world class, whereas De Guzman is comparatively unknown outside of Canada and Spain. Plus, Henry has no connection to TFC or MLS, whereas De Guz is a local lad (as is de Ro). So whilst I agree that Henry is a total dream, I think both de Ro and De Guz are hugely ambitious but still just about achievable targets, since they're local guys and, in de Ro's case, is now over 30. Those players migth actually WANT to come to TFC, whcih makes the whole thing far more plausible, whereas you just cannot see the likes of Henry giving a monkey's about us over any other club in the world.

I'd rather see the club going for ambitious but attainable players than settling for overpaid mediocre crap (or aiming into the stratosphere with the likes of Henry and failing miserably).

Beach_Red
10-30-2008, 03:30 PM
I also love the way Mo essentially deflected any potential backlash to the MLSE board if they can't land a DP. "Well I did my job, the offer is on the table. Its not my fault if the board doesn't accept it"!

Okay, if there's an offer on the table that the player accepted and the board doesn't, whose fault is it?

Kenny/Boozemaster/Lenny/togetherness/Roc le Roc
10-30-2008, 03:33 PM
I think DeGuzman should be out of everyones mind .. He is in Europe and doing very well .. He I am sure has no plans to come back this soon in his careeer ..

jloome
10-30-2008, 04:22 PM
I think DeGuzman should be out of everyones mind .. He is in Europe and doing very well .. He I am sure has no plans to come back this soon in his careeer ..

Rep'd for reality.

He's not coming, get over it. ANd to anyone thinking we can last ANY decent DP for three-quarters of a million, I want some of what you're smoking. These guys make, typically, not less than $20,000 a week in Europe, which is a million to start. The AVERAGE salary in the coca cola championship last year was in excess of $500,000 per year. The stars are making well over double that, and we're not even talking about the premiership.

Seriously. Both Dichio and Robinson did us favours by even coming here, as they'd both make more riding the pine in England.

DeRo is possible, but he's not going to add the 10 or so extra goals we need to guarantee a playoff spot, so what would the point be? We end up playing a 451 all year to accomodate, and playing a single striker, as neither Guevara nor DeRo is a wide player.

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Am I the only one who's noticed that any talk of grass has gone out the window?

MG42
10-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Am I the only one who's noticed that any talk of grass has gone out the window?


I believe that was "distract the supporters during a 2 month winless streak" strategy :)

Hitcho
10-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Rep'd for reality.

He's not coming, get over it. ANd to anyone thinking we can last ANY decent DP for three-quarters of a million, I want some of what you're smoking. These guys make, typically, not less than $20,000 a week in Europe, which is a million to start. The AVERAGE salary in the coca cola championship last year was in excess of $500,000 per year. The stars are making well over double that, and we're not even talking about the premiership.

Heh - you've just done what i did in your poll thread, despite the fact that your poll listed, among others, Gudjohnsen as one of the players people would like to see signed for TFC, who is way above de Guz in terms of quality/expense.

I agree that top players with high wages are unlikely to come and sign for us (unless they're looking for a quick pay day on the way to the glue factory), but the one exception to that might be local guys, or at least Canadian players, who want to come and play for TFC for personal reasons. There's at least some cause for optimism there, however wild. So de Ro and De Guz might be attainable, although I still think it's unlikely.

King Tut
10-31-2008, 05:42 AM
Where's that "World starting XI" player that Mo was blathering about earlier?


That's what I'm wondering too. They got me thinking they'll be signing a "World Starting XI" player and now I'm expecting nothing less than a player of that caliber/history/name/talent..Obviously the player will be a bit older than when they were ripping it up in Europe or wherever they came from, but he still be able to do the job and push the team forward...I can't wait till they unveil this DP. He better be someone worth waiting 3 years for!


Why does it have to be DeRo...??? I mean look, i like the guy. But DP worthy?? Nah.

I want TFC to put together a real offer to Henry! Why not try? Throw him like 4/5 million a year!

For the DP slot, I want BIG BIG Names/players...I want MLSE to throw some BIG money at it!

DeGuz? ah heck sure throw him 3/4 million a year and see if he bites...

I agree. There's also Crespo, Inzaghi, Nedved, Van Nistelrooy (whenever he decides to quit, whoever doesn't have a DP should definitely go after this guy..he's a goal scoring machine!!), Riquelme and many others that should be considered for the "Starting XI" type that we were told we'd have when the time is right.

invictusTFC
10-31-2008, 08:36 AM
I can't believe I'm even going to through a name into the hat here, but I was watching GolTV news this morning, and one player jumped out at me as a reasonable player I would target if I were in Mo's position; Marco Di Vaio from Bologna FC. At 32 he is still scoring goals quite regularly in Serie A. I'm not sure he is worth DP money at this stage of his career, but he most likely will demand it.

invictusTFC
10-31-2008, 08:44 AM
One other thing that has to be taken into consideration is that many player agents will use MLS offers as a way to get their players a better deal in Europe. So TFC can very well put in a very competitive and lucrative bid for a player like Henri and it will be used strictly as a bargaining ploy for the player to get a better deal from Barca or some other European team, because Henri has no desire to come here. Samuel Eto did the exact same thing this summer using a $ multi-million offer from a Uzbek team as leverage.

Beach_Red
10-31-2008, 08:52 AM
One other thing that has to be taken into consideration is that many player agents will use MLS offers as a way to get their players a better deal in Europe.

That's what Dickov did, didn't he?

I'm sure MLS GM's have their time wasted constantly by agents fishing for a better deal, it's part of the job. They have to figure out pretty quickly who's serious about coming over and who isn't.

Beach_Red
10-31-2008, 08:53 AM
I'm expecting nothing less than a player of that caliber/history/name/talent..Obviously the player will be a bit older than when they were ripping it up in Europe or wherever they came from...

Wasn't that the NASL "secret to success?"

canadian_bhoy
10-31-2008, 08:55 AM
You're not going to get an Italian DP. Those guys LOVE playing in Italy. They'd rather play for some carp 3rd division team in Italy than come to MLS - let alone the arctic that is Canada.

Look at Baggio, you telling me he couldn't have played in England or Spain? But nope - he went to Brecia.

Steve
10-31-2008, 09:25 AM
Am I the only one who's noticed that any talk of grass has gone out the window?

Nope, and the speed at which it dropped off is very telling. The only two possibilities are 1) MLSE told Mo and Carver that it was never going to happen, so to shut up about it. or 2) The City of Toronto told MLSE who told Carver and Mo that it was never going to happen, so to shut up about it. I would lean towards the city (since TFC does have a sizable amount of money they MUST spend on club improvements from the Edu transfer, I'm sure MLSE would use it on grass if they could).

The most telling thing about the grass issue for me was Carver's last media scrum. Listen carefully when he is talking about the pre-season. He says that he doesn't want to be away as much, only 10 days at a time, then he specifically mentions coming back to Toronto to play "on the Fieldturf" 2-3 times. I mean, he could have said to play at BMO, but he was very specific about playing "on the Fieldturf" which tells me that he has been told to make sure the fans know there will be no changes to the surface over the winter.

rocker
10-31-2008, 10:26 AM
well, even IF they wanted grass, there's no way they get it before next season, so of course pre-season at BMO will be on fieldturf. They can't put grass down in the winter. I would think you'd put grass in during mid-season when you have the warmth and the growing season ahead of you. The La Galaxy tear up their field for the X Games every year and resod midseason so that shouldn't be a problem.

Also, the city is on board with the grass thing.. but it still would have to be approved by the CNE board and apparently by the higher levels of government. These things don't happen two months after you get the transfer fee from Rangers. I don't think we should read anything into the lack of talk right now. The time that they talked about this was two months ago after the Mo Edu trade, when they got that wad of $$$.

At some point that money has to be used otherwise it's just sitting in an MLS bank account collecting interest -- that does no good to TFC.

TicTacTabarnack
10-31-2008, 10:34 AM
2 to 3 months until we know who we're going to sign as our DP, eh? I hope this off season is a hell of a lot more productive than last off season and we actually do ink a DP by end of January.

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-31-2008, 11:13 AM
^Miller has been a big supporter of Toronto FC and it staying soccer-specific, I'd imagine he'd like BMO to have grass as well. If city council are behind the idea, as you've said, I don't see why it shouldn't happen, the facility is owned by the city, not by the province. If that's the case, then all we're waiting on now is for MLSE to first be willing to pay for the grass and maintenance costs and secondly to build a year-round facility.

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-31-2008, 11:18 AM
You're not going to get an Italian DP. Those guys LOVE playing in Italy. They'd rather play for some carp 3rd division team in Italy than come to MLS - let alone the arctic that is Canada.

Look at Baggio, you telling me he couldn't have played in England or Spain? But nope - he went to Brecia.
Spoken for truth. The only notable Italian players who ever left Italy (pre-Calciopoli) as far as I can remember were Zola, Vialli and Di Canio... And only two years ago every player on the Italian World Cup-winning side played in Italy.

As much as I would love to have an Italian DP, the chances of it happening are very, very slim.

Oldtimer
10-31-2008, 11:24 AM
Spoken for truth. The only notable Italian players who ever left Italy (pre-Calciopoli) as far as I can remember were Zola, Vialli and Di Canio... And only two years ago every player on the Italian World Cup-winning side played in Italy.

As much as I would love to have an Italian DP, the chances of it happening are very, very slim.

only old-timers like me would remember, but Giorgio Chinaglia played for the NY Cosmos in the NASL. One of the best players (and biggest jerks, unfortunately) to ever play on North American soil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Chinaglia

TFC07
10-31-2008, 11:50 AM
Roberto Bettega played for Toronto Blizzard!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Bettega

Del Piero said he wants to play outside of Italy in the future. Maybe TFC should try to get him.

Back to the topic: I highly doubt JDG will come to Toronto now. Maybe in 3-4 years we will see him here. DeRo isn't making DP money now, so I don't understand why TFC will use their DP on him in the future. I get a sick feeling that Mo is going to target some no-name reject from England and use DP on him.

Big Bruva
10-31-2008, 01:01 PM
Julian is not coming to TFC right now, he wants to ideally stay in Spain but would like to go to England as a 2nd choice. He loves Spain and is practically Spainish lol

DeRo on the other hand is one of the DP targets that i think Mo is talking about.

invictusTFC
10-31-2008, 01:47 PM
You're not going to get an Italian DP. Those guys LOVE playing in Italy. They'd rather play for some carp 3rd division team in Italy than come to MLS - let alone the arctic that is Canada.

Look at Baggio, you telling me he couldn't have played in England or Spain? But nope - he went to Brecia.

Marco Di Vaio played a couple of seasons in Spain for Valencia. Zambrotta played for Barca last season. Fabio Cannavaro is currently at Real. Pannucci also played at Real. Christian Vieri played at Monaco, Fabrizio Ravanelli at Olympique Marseille and Middlesboro,Lorenzo Amoruso at Rangers, Gatusso aswell.Thats just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.rsssf.com/players/ital-players-abroad.html

For the right money players will practically go anywhere regardless of nationality...

jloome
10-31-2008, 02:48 PM
Heh - you've just done what i did in your poll thread, despite the fact that your poll listed, among others, Gudjohnsen as one of the players people would like to see signed for TFC, who is way above de Guz in terms of quality/expense.

I agree that top players with high wages are unlikely to come and sign for us (unless they're looking for a quick pay day on the way to the glue factory), but the one exception to that might be local guys, or at least Canadian players, who want to come and play for TFC for personal reasons. There's at least some cause for optimism there, however wild. So de Ro and De Guz might be attainable, although I still think it's unlikely.

I'd have to disagree, Hitcho, because Gudjohnsen has already had a long and successful career, DeGuzman hasn't. He may be way above DeGuzman in terms of quality (apples and oranges, given that they play different positions, and DEG WAS Depor's player of the year last year) but that doesn't make him unapproachable -- a la a world class player -- just unlikely.

Kenny/Boozemaster/Lenny/togetherness/Roc le Roc
10-31-2008, 03:09 PM
Julian is not coming to TFC right now, he wants to ideally stay in Spain but would like to go to England as a 2nd choice. He loves Spain and is practically Spainish lol

DeRo on the other hand is one of the DP targets that i think Mo is talking about.


There u have it ... This guy knows what he's talking about booyaa
:canada:

I_AM_CANADIAN
10-31-2008, 03:31 PM
Marco Di Vaio played a couple of seasons in Spain for Valencia. Zambrotta played for Barca last season. Fabio Cannavaro is currently at Real. Pannucci also played at Real. Christian Vieri played at Monaco, Fabrizio Ravanelli at Olympique Marseille and Middlesboro,Lorenzo Amoruso at Rangers, Gatusso aswell.Thats just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.rsssf.com/players/ital-players-abroad.html

For the right money players will practically go anywhere regardless of nationality...
Zambrotta and Cannavaro left due to the Calciopoli scandal along with many of their Juve and Milan teammates, and the only ones besides them who ever became Italy regulars are Gattuso and Vieri, and Vieri played for a zillion and a half different teams in his career.

Naming a handful of guys who spent time in their career in foreign leagues is hardly proof that we can get an Italian DP, and when you compare the amount of Italians who leave to the amount of players from other countries who leave, there's a big discrepancy. A few guys, like Materazzi and Vieri (who also had one season at Atletico Madrid), experiment with playing in other leagues but there are very few Italians who spend the majority of their careers in foreign countries.

S_D
10-31-2008, 04:16 PM
I am trying to understand why Dero would have to become a DP? he is under contract @ the league max with MLS unless his contract is expiring. No need to renegotiate his contract. The problem is prying him out of Houston's hands.

Ron Manager
10-31-2008, 04:41 PM
I am trying to understand why Dero would have to become a DP? he is under contract @ the league max with MLS unless his contract is expiring. No need to renegotiate his contract. The problem is prying him out of Houston's hands.

Give him the chance to play alongside DeGuzman every week?

Hitcho
10-31-2008, 04:55 PM
I'd have to disagree, Hitcho, because Gudjohnsen has already had a long and successful career, DeGuzman hasn't. He may be way above DeGuzman in terms of quality (apples and oranges, given that they play different positions, and DEG WAS Depor's player of the year last year) but that doesn't make him unapproachable -- a la a world class player -- just unlikely.

Well we can agree to disagree on this I guess. Ordinarily I'd say both players are no hopers for TFC since we're currently a basement club in a plastic league with a plastic pitch as far as players of that ilk go. Local lads might feel more inclined to come here, whereas the likes of Gudjohnsen just wouldn't, IMHO. I'd say both should be approached with ambitious offers, but neither are likely to accept, unless De Guz wants to "come home" at some point.

I hope you're right though, uh'd loov to see Eidur here, uh'd loov it... :D:D

Big Bruva
11-01-2008, 10:03 AM
There u have it ... This guy knows what he's talking about booyaa
:canada:

There has been discussions though but as of right now Julian is not looking to come to TFC

Big Bruva
11-01-2008, 10:04 AM
I am trying to understand why Dero would have to become a DP? he is under contract @ the league max with MLS unless his contract is expiring. No need to renegotiate his contract. The problem is prying him out of Houston's hands.

DeRo would most likely have to become a DP if he came to TFC coz he is requesting that kinda money to get him here.

rocker
11-01-2008, 10:08 AM
There has been discussions though but as of right now Julian is not looking to come to TFC

you say "as of right now".... is this politician-speak?? ;)

of course Julian won't come here "as of right now" since the MLS season is over!
but if I said "As of June next year"....... would that be more possible?? ;)

Beach_Red
11-01-2008, 10:52 AM
Give him the chance to play alongside DeGuzman every week?


Some days I just think how cool it would be to be Houston's GM... Hmmm, if the Toronto fans put enough pressure on the team, we can trade DeRo for anyone we want...

S_D
11-01-2008, 11:16 AM
Give him the chance to play alongside DeGuzman every week?

You don't need to give Dero DP cash to do that :)

S_D
11-01-2008, 11:28 AM
DeRo would most likely have to become a DP if he came to TFC coz he is requesting that kinda money to get him here.

Well then let him stay in Houston :) 7 goals and 2 assists in 24 games is not worth DP money. And considering how good Houston is, he should be doing better.

He is worth what he is getting paid now, actually comparatively speaking, probably a bit overpaid.

Schelotto:
7 goals 19 assists in 27 games. Now THAT is worth a DP slot.

Angel:
14 goals 3 assists in 23 games with poor service is worth a DP slot.

We can do better than Dero. And yes I am getting ready to hide from all of the Dero lovers :hide:

Shakes McQueen
11-01-2008, 04:01 PM
I like DeRo, and want him to play here at some point, but I will be pretty bummed out if we use our one DP slot on a domestic player already in MLS, under a non-DP contract to boot.

Can we really not aim our sights any higher than that?

- Scott

Big Bruva
11-04-2008, 10:56 AM
you say "as of right now".... is this politician-speak?? ;)

of course Julian won't come here "as of right now" since the MLS season is over!
but if I said "As of June next year"....... would that be more possible?? ;)

lol nah as it goes right now he would not be coming to TFC.

Maybe Mo and the gang will talk to his agent and make a good offer

Daveisonfire
11-04-2008, 11:17 AM
Julian is not coming to TFC right now, he wants to ideally stay in Spain but would like to go to England as a 2nd choice. He loves Spain and is practically Spainish lol

DeRo on the other hand is one of the DP targets that i think Mo is talking about.

Does that mean there's interest from England for JDG? Seeing Julian suit up for a Premiership side would be fantastic...well depends on who actually.

Oldtimer
11-04-2008, 11:30 AM
I imagine it like this (in Mo's office):

DeRo: You want me to play in Toronto? I'd love to play in front of family and friends, but that plastic pitch is a killer, and the team is crap. Right now I'm playin' for a winning team.

Mo (moves picture frame revealing secret safe. Opens safe and bundles of cash tumble out): There ya go laddie, $460,000 in DP cash. Help yerself, after ya sign right here...

DeRo: hmmm... maybe we can discuss things...

Hitcho
11-04-2008, 12:21 PM
I like DeRo, and want him to play here at some point, but I will be pretty bummed out if we use our one DP slot on a domestic player already in MLS, under a non-DP contract to boot.

QFT. We can get him here (if he'll come and Houston will let him) without using the DP slot, and that's the kind of mabition I'd like to see the club showing to be honest. De Ro AND and a DP would be a serious commitment to taking the club a long way forward in season III.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-04-2008, 12:33 PM
ech, little bit disappointed with DeRo being a potential DP.
We need a striker (he prefers playing attacking mid, whcih we already have in Guevara) and frankly isnt worth the DP slot (i love the guy, i do but christ, cant we sign us an Angel?)

Ossington Mental Youth
11-04-2008, 12:33 PM
id even take a top calibre CB as a dp over DeRo.
Hes just not the player we need currently.

ben_vw
11-04-2008, 12:34 PM
All we need DeRo to say is "I wanna go home and play in Toronto" and the league will get it done, and it likely won't cost us a DP spot. **ahem, Landycakes**

arsenal
11-04-2008, 12:36 PM
ech, little bit disappointed with DeRo being a potential DP.
We need a striker (he prefers playing attacking mid, whcih we already have in Guevara) and frankly isnt worth the DP slot (i love the guy, i do but christ, cant we sign us an Angel?)

Agree 100%. DeRo is an upgrade over Guevara (especially with counting as a domestic). But given what we would have to deal to get his rights and tying up the DP spot I would much rather just keep Guevara and sign a DP striker.

rocker
11-04-2008, 12:54 PM
De Guzman would have a greater effect on TFC than Henry because 1) he would probably hustle more since he cares deeply about the city and the team -- Big Bruva said he follows TFC closely and has his TFC gear in spain! 2) he'd be here longer -- potentially the rest of his career while Henry would do his 2-year term or whatever and move on; 3) De Guzman is younger and thus a decline in his play won't be seen for some time; 4) he wouldn't take up an international spot.

Kenny/Boozemaster/Lenny/togetherness/Roc le Roc
11-04-2008, 01:18 PM
^^^^ hahaha it was sort of funny tho .. I think it was a joke

Ossington Mental Youth
11-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Agree 100%. DeRo is an upgrade over Guevara (especially with counting as a domestic). But given what we would have to deal to get his rights and tying up the DP spot I would much rather just keep Guevara and sign a DP striker.

exactly

Billy the kid
11-04-2008, 01:28 PM
It would be nice if they could combine DeRo's salary with some kind of a sponsorship deal so they would not have to use a DP slot. Kinda like how some of the money for Beckham came from sponsors, except this would be on a smaller scale of course.

Flashman
11-04-2008, 01:33 PM
Having DeRo and DeGuz playing 30 games a season in the midfield for TFC would be a tremendous benefit for the CMNT, and I would love to see it, if we could get DeGuz as a DP and DeRo by lowering his salary with allocation money.

I just worry what we would have to give up to Houston to get DeRo. We would be better off getting an equivelant talent from outside MLS, and paying similar money, but not having to give up anything for the signing rights.

Kenny/Boozemaster/Lenny/togetherness/Roc le Roc
11-04-2008, 01:34 PM
I really think we should stop dreaming about DeGuzman ..

He aint coming here .. not yet

its gotta be way too much fun overseas

jloome
11-04-2008, 01:37 PM
I imagine it like this (in Mo's office):

DeRo: You want me to play in Toronto? I'd love to play in front of family and friends, but that plastic pitch is a killer, and the team is crap. Right now I'm playin' for a winning team.

Mo (moves picture frame revealing secret safe. Opens safe and bundles of cash tumble out): There ya go laddie, $460,000 in DP cash. Help yerself, after ya sign right here...

DeRo: hmmm... maybe we can discuss things...

Yeah, that would buy you about four games at his current salary level.

Dunc
11-04-2008, 01:43 PM
Dunc, comments like that are illegal and inappropriate on a public forum.

it was just a joke, lighten up.

But some mod deleted it, fine, so we'll leave it at that.

JonO
11-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Yeah, that would buy you about four games at his current salary level.
Ummm... I think you have the wrong player...

Oldtimer
11-04-2008, 01:56 PM
Yeah, that would buy you about four games at his current salary level.

You must be thinking DeGuzman, not DeRo!

Keyman
11-04-2008, 01:59 PM
I've been told that Atiba Hutchinson is on our radar. However, he is very hard to acquire because of his curent contract with FCK.

Nuvinho
11-04-2008, 02:15 PM
I've been told that Atiba Hutchinson is on our radar. However, he is very hard to acquire because of his curent contract with FCK.

I kinda figured he was the more attainable Canadian who we could get. I guess MLS has to pay a transfer fee for him.

Hitcho
11-04-2008, 02:30 PM
Ummm... I think you have the wrong player...

Who's that elephant in your avatar JonO? He looks pretty nimble, we should sign him. I imagine he could play well in goal, as a holding DCM or as a big target man. High utility, low salary - probably counts as a non-Canadian though. Bummer.

JonO
11-04-2008, 03:19 PM
^^^ Only if he gets to use his trampoline. I notice you are sorely lacking an avatar. May I suggest

http://www.digitalrendezvous.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/simonextreme.png

or

http://www.toonhound.com/simon.jpg

Hitcho
11-04-2008, 03:32 PM
Here's the first image that Google Images shows up with when you type in JonO:

http://jonoscoffee.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/jono.124100028_std.jpg

Perhaps you should consider changing yours instead, no? :p

EDIT - photoshoppers, feel free to change the word "coffee" to something else...

tlear
11-04-2008, 03:37 PM
Now in some dream world if we get DeGuzman.. we would have to play 4-5-1 with Robo, Guevara and DeGuzman. If I actually saw it at BMO field I think I would cry from joy..

Now if we get DeRo, this is definitely doable, we have a lot of players we could use for trades.. allocation money etc. we can definitely make a good offer to Houston, this is if DeRo actually want to play here. But once again we go back to 4-5-1 it would actually be very fun to see Guevara play alongside player like DeRo for whatever reason I think they would work well together. We then have serviceable striker force in Dichio, Barret, Ibrahim add another (#1 draft pick supposedly very good right?) and we are good there.

Our issue then becomes a huge hole in our central defense, Mo needs to atleast determine if Harmse will now play in his new role, need to get rid of Velez and James, needs to sign one very good CB and 2 backups. Our wings look good.

It would be a pretty good team if we ended up with DeRosario and settle to playing 4-5-1 and/or 3-5-2. We need to get that additional striker from draft, then fill our gaping hole in defense.

I am however still convinced that we should spend DP slot on either:

1. Proven CB who can be a real leader in defense, 31-34 year old. Can be a "retirement" job for him, much easier to sign such player then most strikers or AMs. They also do not age as fast. What killed our playofs hope was defense lapses, we scored serviceable amount of goals, if we concede in the last minutes of the games.. DP striker will not help us.

2. Poacher type striker, harder to sign, more risky.. huge payoff potential.

I had very high hopes for Ruiz. What is the most frustrating part is that he is a great player when playing for Guatemala, he is still young.. now I know people will want to kill me but maybe he can turn it around? if he had chance to go through preseason, get healthy etc. He scored some beautiful goals in his time.

tfc
11-04-2008, 03:59 PM
Now in some dream world if we get DeGuzman.. we would have to play 4-5-1 with Robo, Guevara and DeGuzman. If I actually saw it at BMO field I think I would cry from joy..

Now if we get DeRo, this is definitely doable, we have a lot of players we could use for trades.. allocation money etc. we can definitely make a good offer to Houston, this is if DeRo actually want to play here. But once again we go back to 4-5-1 it would actually be very fun to see Guevara play alongside player like DeRo for whatever reason I think they would work well together. We then have serviceable striker force in Dichio, Barret, Ibrahim add another (#1 draft pick supposedly very good right?) and we are good there.

Our issue then becomes a huge hole in our central defense, Mo needs to atleast determine if Harmse will now play in his new role, need to get rid of Velez and James, needs to sign one very good CB and 2 backups. Our wings look good.

It would be a pretty good team if we ended up with DeRosario and settle to playing 4-5-1 and/or 3-5-2. We need to get that additional striker from draft, then fill our gaping hole in defense.

I am however still convinced that we should spend DP slot on either:

1. Proven CB who can be a real leader in defense, 31-34 year old. Can be a "retirement" job for him, much easier to sign such player then most strikers or AMs. They also do not age as fast. What killed our playofs hope was defense lapses, we scored serviceable amount of goals, if we concede in the last minutes of the games.. DP striker will not help us.

2. Poacher type striker, harder to sign, more risky.. huge payoff potential.

I had very high hopes for Ruiz. What is the most frustrating part is that he is a great player when playing for Guatemala, he is still young.. now I know people will want to kill me but maybe he can turn it around? if he had chance to go through preseason, get healthy etc. He scored some beautiful goals in his time.

I agree about Ruiz actually. everyone on the board is so ready to see him go, but to tell you the truth, we got him for a lot less than he is worth (which people will likely debate), and he is still reasonably young. I would like to see him get back in to shape over the off-season and then make my assessment of him as our impression of him has been when hes been hurt, away on international absences, and a prior massive hatred of him haha while he may suck, he may also come back with a vengence and score some big goals.

... and cue the hate on hahaha

Ossington Mental Youth
11-04-2008, 04:00 PM
sorry man, i had hopes for Ruiz too but those went down the toilet when he got subbed off against San Jose. You do bring up some good points tho.

JonO
11-04-2008, 04:49 PM
... and cue the hate on hahaha
He plays like he doesn't want to be here... not much you can do to change that...

tfc
11-04-2008, 05:16 PM
Ruiz didn't travel back with the team. He flew to LA after our last match. He's likely as good as gone.

Interesting, I was unaware of that. Well, lets hope his poor form continues then! :D

ben_vw
11-04-2008, 05:26 PM
Interesting, I was unaware of that. Well, lets hope his poor form continues then! :D

Haha ya. I agree with what you're saying though - with the right attitude and work ethic, Ruiz could have been a hit here for a couple of years.

Hitcho
11-05-2008, 10:00 AM
That's the key problem though - attitude. No amount of talent will ever get past a bad attitude, and that's all Ruiz is - a pissing, whining, lazy, moaning bee-atch who happens to be a good footballer as well, but his talent is too often obscured by his terrible approach to the game.

Definitely had potential (although no-one else got it out of him at club level so not surprising we didn't either), but good riddance. Bring in O'Brian White instead...