25+ Teams in MLS?!?

[Lucky Strike]

WTF?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=as_zx3w.aXCU&refer=canada

Deputy Commish Gazidis getting ahead of himself?

[Beach_Red]

"Gazidis said the league could have as many as 25 teams in the future and surpass the NHL in terms of popularity."

I don't see why not...

[Eastend]

then bring on 1 table and relegation....

[Toronto Ruffrider]

"Gazidis said the league could have as many as 25 teams in the future and surpass the NHL in terms of popularity."

I don't see why not...

Talent might be a limiting factor. Expand too fast and the quality of play in MLS will plummet.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

"Gazidis said the league could have as many as 25 teams in the future and surpass the NHL in terms of popularity."

I don't see why not...


passing the nhl in the states should not be too hard a dog show and spelling bee already do that....

[Beach_Red]

Talent might be a limiting factor. Expand too fast and the quality of play in MLS will plummet.

That can be easily fixed with a higher salary cap and an expanded roster.

[Juanito]

That can be easily fixed with a higher salary cap and an expanded roster.

In theory that SHOULD help. However, for the long-term sustainability of the league, we would need more home-grown talent coming up the ranks. I don't see that right now but it's a chicken-and-egg conundrum.

By having more teams, there is a POTENTIAL for more money and more and more kids will choose soccer over other sports and there will be an incentive to go professional.

As far as MLS surpassing the NHL state-side, it shouldn't take very long. I read a while back that the average NHL is 1.0 while MLS was hovering at 0.7.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

hope the 25 team league is after 2035 so the league does not expand to quick. with the Montreal and Philadelphia bids looking bleak, maybe hold off on 2011 and push back to 2012-13

[Mango Kid]

then bring on 1 table and relegation....

I don't think you'll ever see relegation here.

[J .]

I would like to see one table, 20 teams.

[MrHawk]

Why not just use the USL as relegation/promotion?

[Cashcleaner]

Gazidis is getting more than a little ahead of himself. 25+ teams in MLS? What sort of schedule would we have with that many teams? What would that do to our player's national team commitments? As I've said several times before, I don't see promotion or relegation happening either, so my bet is on a league with 20 teams max and playing as a single table.

[troy1982]

Gazidis is getting more than a little ahead of himself. 25+ teams in MLS? What sort of schedule would we have with that many teams? What would that do to our player's national team commitments? As I've said several times before, I don't see promotion or relegation happening either, so my bet is on a league with 20 teams max and playing as a single table.

The scheduled will not be a problem, it will just be un-balanced. I also imagine that the central conference will return, maybe as soon as next year with 5 team in each conference.

[James17930]

Why is Montreal looking bleak? Who said that?

[Oldtimer]

Why not just use the USL as relegation/promotion?

This is brought up many times, Garber and Gazidis both say it will never happen. Hpw could it? No-one whos paid 40 million is going to want to play in the USL.

IMO the playoff race is as interesting as a relegation battle.

[Keegan]

Why not just use the USL as relegation/promotion?

Do you really need that answered?

I don't think MLS wants a team like Puerto Rico or Charleston in their league. North American owners are WAYYY too stuck up. They won't accept dropping divisions as they pay good money to enter MLS. North American owners are lazy and most don't give a shit about winning just making a profit so they can be lazy and still make money, except if they drop a division. Its so retarded really, I pray for promotion/relegation between MLS/USL it's just that MLS is all about money not competitiveness.

[torfchamilton]

with the Montreal and Philadelphia bids looking bleak

Philadelphia is already in!!

[phonzo]

if we ever do have 25+ teams does that mean we're still playing on world cup qualifying weekends :)

either way money will be an issue, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the MLS still bleeding money in some areas? Homegrown talent is next but from my understand the US is starting to put more money into amateur development and the CSA is doing whatever it is they do....

[Parkdale]

relegation will never work in North America.

If you're in a professional league, the only way you will leave is if you lose the fans and have to close up shop for financial reasons. NEVER will a losing record put a team out of the league.


never.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/TRND/FP3911%7EToronto-Maple-Leafs-Posters.jpg



^ you can't have the biggest money maker drop down to a lower league. It will never happen in North American Sports.


other examples: of team that could never be relegated:

Atlanta Braves, Miami Heat, Vancouver Canucks, Pitsburg Pirates....

[Detroit_TFC]

Maybe the Microsoft guys can just buy the entire Championship and move it to North America. Charlton Athletic - your new home is Little Rock, Arkansas!

[Beach_Red]

IMO the playoff race is as interesting as a relegation battle.

I agree. And then the playoffs themselves can also be great battles.

It can be tough the rest of the year. I now only get interested in hockey for playoff battles and some playoff series. The 30 game schedule in MLS is a good length, and then top that off with a good playoff run - it would make for a great year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

playoffs vs relegation/promotion. As long as we play by different rules than the best leagues in the world we'll never compare to them. never.

[flatpicker]

Once there are some more teams in MLS, I think the best thing to do would be to keep the two divisions...
but make them two separate single tables (east and west)
The winner of each division would go head to head in the final.
makes sense to me anyway...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

playoffs vs relegation/promotion. As long as we play by different rules than the best leagues in the world we'll never compare to them. never.

relegation and promotion wont work here thats why it will never happen..god willing. New team owners don't want to spend money on a team that won't be playing in the top flight, see lack of teams in USL.

A 8 team east, 8 team central and 8 team west division would
be the ideal way for the league to go...top 4 teams in each division make playoffs, then next best 4 with best record reguardless of division all in the playoffs.
Future MLS 24 team League

east; TFC, NY red bulls, Ny 2 (exp) Miami (exp) Tampa (exp)
New England, Rochester (exp) Ottawa (exp)

central: Columbus, Chicago, Kansas city, detroit (exp) minnestota (exp)
Philadelphia (exp) DC Utd, st louis (exp)

west: La galaxy, San Jose, Chivas, Real salt lake, Houston, Fc Dallas
Colorado rapids, San Diego (exp)

[Beach_Red]

Once there are some more teams in MLS, I think the best thing to do would be to keep the two divisions...
but make them two separate single tables (east and west)
The winner of each division would go head to head in the final.
makes sense to me anyway...

Just like it used to be in baseball. Or did you want to have east and west playing each other during the regular season?

[flatpicker]

^^ I just think they should do away with the preliminary playoff rounds and go straight to a cup final.
Just take the top team from each division at the end of the season.
There would often be a good race to first place during the season.
But of course that wouldn't work in your 3 division scenario.

if that is too hard for North Americans to swallow, then have the top two teams from each division play a semifinal game.

Also, have the majority of games played be against those in your own division.
More like the MLB set-up

*edit* I was responding to MightTFC... but I think it also answers your question Beach... in my ideal world, teams from the two divisions would not play each other during the season.
It would be a true measure of who is champ in North America.
Then you would have two championships to play for each year... the Division Cup and the MLS Cup.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

^^ I just think they should do away with the preliminary playoff rounds and go straight to a cup final.
Just take the top team from each division at the end of the season.
There would often be a good race to first place during the season.
But of course that wouldn't work in your 3 division scenario.

if that is too hard for North Americans to swallow, then have the top two teams from each division play a semifinal game.

Also, have the majority of games played be against those in your own division.
More like the MLB set-up

*edit* I was responding to MightTFC... but I think it also answers your question Beach... in my ideal world, teams from the two divisions would not play each other during the season.
It would be a true measure of who is champ in North America.
Then you would have two championships to play for each year... the Division Cup and the MLS Cup.

playing more games against teams in your own division would hurt, i would like to see the san Jose's, the Galaxy, Dynamo etc...not to thrilled at seeing the Red Bulls or New england more often...

[flatpicker]

^ I'm sure some baseball fans would get a kick out of seeing more of the big names from the other league too, but they are limited and they don't seem to complain.

[james]

i dont think enough cities in the states as well as Canada would support a soccer team. And if the league does expand they need to it at a slow pace. IF they just keep adding teams before they have stadiums built and all then the league is just gonna fall apart.

[Redcoe15]

relegation and promotion wont work here thats why it will never happen..god willing. New team owners don't want to spend money on a team that won't be playing in the top flight, see lack of teams in USL.

A 8 team east, 8 team central and 8 team west division would
be the ideal way for the league to go...top 4 teams in each division make playoffs, then next best 4 with best record reguardless of division all in the playoffs.
Future MLS 24 team League

east; TFC, NY red bulls, Ny 2 (exp) Miami (exp) Tampa (exp)
New England, Rochester (exp) Ottawa (exp)

central: Columbus, Chicago, Kansas city, detroit (exp) minnestota (exp)
Philadelphia (exp) DC Utd, st louis (exp)

west: La galaxy, San Jose, Chivas, Real salt lake, Houston, Fc Dallas
Colorado rapids, San Diego (exp)
Where's Montreal and Vancouver? :canada:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Where's Montreal and Vancouver? :canada:


USL where they should stay for the near future anyways.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Philadelphia is already in!!


their current owners are going through a financial problem...wont be surptised if they get put back a couple of years..

[Cashcleaner]

I really, REALLY don't like the idea of not playing each team in the league at least twice (home and away) in a season. How can you really figure out what team is the best? You play each and everyone in the league - simple as that.

Just think about a theoretical conversation a couple years down the line if we go down that route:

Cash - "Oh man! With our world-class forwards and aggressive midfield; and Vancouver's tight defense but inexperienced keeper, wouldn't that make for a pretty interesting game?"

Guy - "Yeah it would. Too bad we'll never see it unless both teams make the playoffs and face-off against each other then."

Cash - "Well that's just shit."

You get the idea, anyway. Soccer is the sport that's all about lining up teams and shaping up their strengths and weaknesses with each other. It's hard to do that when they only face particular opponents in the post-season, though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I really, REALLY don't like the idea of not playing each team in the league at least twice (home and away) in a season. How can you really figure out what team is the best? You play each and everyone in the league - simple as that.

Just think about a theoretical conversation a couple years down the line if we go down that route:

Cash - "Oh man! With our world-class forwards and aggressive midfield; and Vancouver's tight defense but inexperienced keeper, wouldn't that make for a pretty interesting game?"

Guy - "Yeah it would. Too bad we'll never see it unless both teams make the playoffs and face-off against each other then."



Cash - "Well that's just shit."

You get the idea, anyway. Soccer is the sport that's all about lining up teams and shaping up their strengths and weaknesses with each other. It's hard to do that when they face particular opponents in the post-season, though.

Agreed. Home and away facing every one in the league is the only way to determine a true winner of league competition. Except for playoffs. I know it's the way over here but we all know that teams out of the league championship (supporters shield) but are secured a playoff spot to contest for a post season tournament (MLS cup) do not truly care about the over-hyped "playoff position" and therefore devalue end of season games.:rant:

[T_Mizz]

Didn't Fifa make it a rule that no league can have more than 20 teams?

[jloome]

This is an asinine argument. By that measure, no one would ever buy a team in Europe, either. It's the same guys, with the same money; the two top clubs in England are both owned by Americans now.

If the fanbase is soccer-knowledgeable -- which at current rates will take another decade -- there's nothing in your argument that cohesively proves or demonstrates that promotion/relegation wouldn't work.

You're right in thinking that North Americans delineate much more specifically between minor and major leagues, whereas in lots of other countries, the lower leagues are held in more respect. But again, with soccer that's part of the educational process.

Twenty years ago, people were saying that after the NASL debacle, there'd NEVER be another major pro league in North America. NEVER. Less than a decade later.....


relegation and promotion wont work here thats why it will never happen..god willing. New team owners don't want to spend money on a team that won't be playing in the top flight, see lack of teams in USL.

A 8 team east, 8 team central and 8 team west division would
be the ideal way for the league to go...top 4 teams in each division make playoffs, then next best 4 with best record reguardless of division all in the playoffs.
Future MLS 24 team League

east; TFC, NY red bulls, Ny 2 (exp) Miami (exp) Tampa (exp)
New England, Rochester (exp) Ottawa (exp)

central: Columbus, Chicago, Kansas city, detroit (exp) minnestota (exp)
Philadelphia (exp) DC Utd, st louis (exp)

west: La galaxy, San Jose, Chivas, Real salt lake, Houston, Fc Dallas
Colorado rapids, San Diego (exp)

[Beach_Red]

This is an asinine argument. By that measure, no one would ever buy a team in Europe, either. It's the same guys, with the same money; the two top clubs in England are both owned by Americans now.

If the fanbase is soccer-knowledgeable -- which at current rates will take another decade -- there's nothing in your argument that cohesively proves or demonstrates that promotion/relegation wouldn't work.

You're right in thinking that North Americans delineate much more specifically between minor and major leagues, whereas in lots of other countries, the lower leagues are held in more respect. But again, with soccer that's part of the educational process.

Twenty years ago, people were saying that after the NASL debacle, there'd NEVER be another major pro league in North America. NEVER. Less than a decade later.....

But it's also possible for North America to have a successful league that isn't simply a copy of a European league, isn't it?

Yes, the top two teams in England are owned by Americans, but they aren't in much danger of being relegated, are they? I mean, according to the rules they could be, but it's unlikely any time soon. Those owners knew how that system worked when they bought into it and knew they'd be able to spend far more than teams worried about relegation.

In fact it's possible that whole relegation/promotion system is outdated now that the operating budgets between the teams is so different. I'm not 100% certain about this, but my guess is thirty years ago most English teams had pretty similar budgets. Those days are gone. TV revenue, Champions League revenue, all that is making the gap even wider, isn't it?

[Cashcleaner]

If the fanbase is soccer-knowledgeable -- which at current rates will take another decade -- there's nothing in your argument that cohesively proves or demonstrates that promotion/relegation wouldn't work

Again, look at baseball and hockey. Both are sports with mulitiple professional, semi-professional, and amatuer tiers, yet there has never been a system of promotion/relegation put in place for them. And many of them have been around almost as long as the FA.

Just answer me this: If promotion/relegation can possibly work so well in North America, how come no sports here have adopted it?

[troy1982]

Didn't Fifa make it a rule that no league can have more than 20 teams?

Fifa never has and why would they when they are just concern by the number of games played. you can play a 30 game schedule with as many teams as you want, the schedule just will not be balanced. every other league in North America has an unbalance scheduled including MLS.