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james
10-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Heres the average season ticekts sales per game for 2008 regular seasoon:

Los Angeles................26,008 (lowest attendence 20,426 vs TFC)
Toronto.....................20,107
DC United.................. 19,835
Houston.....................17,411
Chicago......................17,034
Salt Lake....................16,181
New York....................15,928
Chivas........................15,114
Columbus....................14,622 (MLS sason league low attendence 6,723)
San Jose.....................13,113
FC Dallas.....................13,022 (Dallas had less then 8,500 fans for 4 matches)
Kansas........................10,684 (didn't sell out 10,385 stadium for 8 games)


New England...............NA
Colorado....................NA

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-27-2008, 11:53 PM
if toronto had a 40,000 seat stadium we would have a 38-39k average attendance

Brooker
10-28-2008, 12:08 AM
if toronto had a 40,000 seat stadium we would have a 38-39k average attendance

tickets sold? oh for sure....

but between the scalpers, people who get tickets for free, and the seats abandoned by people who go to the beer garden: the stadium would look half empty like it does on a regular saturday. (just on a larger scale.)

such a waste. i've heard scalpers talking and saying they have a shitload of tickets and can't get rid of them. literally seen some scalpers with a big fistful of tickets 20 minutes before kickoff. tell me they didnt just throw those tickets in the garbage shortly after the game started.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-28-2008, 12:31 AM
As always, interesting numbers. It's handy that MLS keeps its game-to-game attendance figures available. Factoring away such outliers as double headers and each team's home game(s) against the LA Galaxy, here are the adjusted attendance figures for MLS teams:

Los Angeles..................26,008
Toronto FC...................20,107
DC United.....................18,682
Chicago........................16,811
Houston.......................15,980
RSL.............................15,508
Chivas USA...................14,266
Columbus......................14,046
New York......................13,726
Colorado.......................13,259
New England.................13,108
FC Dallas......................11,693
San Jose......................10,750
Kansas City....................9,584

League Average.............15,252

More than a few interesting pieces of information can be gleaned from the above numbers. For one thing, TFC's attendance was not affected by its Beckham game - we drew almost the same crowd for that game as our season average (20,096). T.O. aside, every MLS team's attendance drops once L.A. is taken out of the equation.

Another team of interest in this analysis is New England. New England's raw average attendance is 17,580. Omitting the Galaxy game (attendance 39k) and a double header on June 6 that featured New England vs. FC Dallas and Brazil vs. Venezuela at Gillette Stadium (attendance 54k), New England's average attendance drops to only about 13k.

Of course, we know how accurate Columbus' numbers are. Columbus' paid attendance is only about 10k, so an average crowd of 14k or more is way too flattering. The Chivas numbers seem high as well - they have the smallest season ticket base in MLS - but I haven't read any articles describing how Chivas "sells" its tickets.

One team that I find perplexing is FC Dallas. Dallas is one of the lightest draws in MLS - it frequently draws under 10k - yet it somehow manages to turn a small profit. I'm not sure how this is possible, but perhaps the organisation makes extra money by leasing out Pizza Hut Park - high school football is known to take place there.

In sum, the above numbers are interesting, but they need to be taken with a grain of salt. Aside from a few teams which are known to sell large quantities of tickets - Toronto, LA, and maybe DC - the remaining teams' attendance numbers look suspicious. A few years ago, the San Diego Union-Tribune (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/soccer/20060927-9999-lz1s27goal.html) wrote an interesting article on MLS attendance, stating that teams padded their numbers by giving away thousands of free tickets. Seeing as how MLS' gate numbers sans Beckham are more or less the same as the 2005 figures, I'm inclined to believe that most teams are still being too generous with their ducats.

Fort York Redcoat
10-28-2008, 06:56 AM
Chicago I thought would be higher.
NJ and SL will be bumped and chase us next year.

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2008, 08:48 AM
Dallas is too hot to play real soccer.

get a roof or get out

NF-FC
10-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Chicago I thought would be higher.
NJ and SL will be bumped and chase us next year.

I'm not sold on SL. The stadium is way out in the burbs. You might see 17K a game there but it wont sell out. RedBull arena wont open untill the end of 09 or possibly the start of 2010, so it won't factor much. the big bump is going to come from Seattle. I'm willing to bet they break the attendance record next year.

Southsider
10-28-2008, 04:16 PM
/\ /\ How much are willing to bet? ;)

james
10-28-2008, 06:32 PM
if toronto had a 40,000 seat stadium we would have a 38-39k average attendance

ya i dont think we could sell 38-40k on a regualar basis. I think some people think TFC tickets are more of a demand then they really are. I couldnt get rid of 2 of my extra tickets on a saturday night TFC vs Pachuca. I was offerring them for like $10 8th row. No one wanted them.

james
10-28-2008, 06:33 PM
i bet salt lake will avarage about 17,000 next year. I exspect NY will draw 20-25 k when they do get there new stadium.

james
10-28-2008, 06:44 PM
Chivas
i thot Chivas USA attendence looked a little higher then it really was as well. One reason is because they do play LA Galaxy a few times a year, thats always a 27,000 sell out. They also drew about 25,000 when Chicago came to town, reason is becuase with the huge mexican following many fans came to see Blanco. Those 2 games there really helped keep the attendence up.

FC Dallas
i have no idea how they make a profit. THey got one of the worst attendence. If it wasn't for playing 2 home games vs Galazy the average attendnece would be more like 9k. Wierd thing is that Dallas is so different then Houston. Houston get pretty good crowds, and its a pretty big draw when Mexican clubs come to play Houston. Houston even managed to sell 30k vs Chivas and i think 25k vs another Mexican club. Yet when Mexican clubs come to play Dallas no one cares. They got like 5k for some of there friendlies vs Mexican clubs.

jloome
10-28-2008, 07:46 PM
Having been on the media side of this equation and told candidly from time to time how many tickets are given away for EVERY big event out there, I would be surprised if you couldn't knock 2K-to-4K off of every one of those actuall attendance average.

That's borne out by the Columbus Dispatch report, which quoted internal documents showing actual attendance at under 10K per game.

There was a similar knock on the Montreal Impact a few years back, with the suggestion being that half their tickets are actually given away to sponsors.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-28-2008, 11:38 PM
Having been on the media side of this equation and told candidly from time to time how many tickets are given away for EVERY big event out there, I would be surprised if you couldn't knock 2K-to-4K off of every one of those actuall attendance average.

That's borne out by the Columbus Dispatch report, which quoted internal documents showing actual attendance at under 10K per game.

There was a similar knock on the Montreal Impact a few years back, with the suggestion being that half their tickets are actually given away to sponsors.

The San Diego article quoted similar figures for attendance padding. In 2005 the total average attendance in MLS was 15,118, but the paid attendance was only 10,746. Those figures are similar to the ones found in the Columbus Dispatch Report, so it would seem that both articles are fairly accurate.

With regard to the Montreal Impact, I'm not surprised that they give away thousands of tickets. Whether the Impact play at Complexe Claude Robillard or Stade Saputo, the FO of that organisation continues to market itself to family crowds above all else. That cohort doesn't exactly strike me as a group of people that have a loyal attachment to the club. If Joey Saputo is serious about selling a greater proportion of his tickets, he might want to pull a TFC and market toward actual supporters.

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
11-05-2008, 03:06 AM
ya i dont think we could sell 38-40k on a regualar basis. I think some people think TFC tickets are more of a demand then they really are. I couldnt get rid of 2 of my extra tickets on a saturday night TFC vs Pachuca. I was offerring them for like $10 8th row. No one wanted them.

well i would of taken them but i already had tiks :canada: