Beckham Joins AC Milan on Loan

[King Jeff]

Breaking news on the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7683877.stm




Beckham to join AC Milan on loan


David Beckham has agreed to move to AC Milan on loan from January until the end of the season, the Italian club has told BBC Sport.
The England midfielder, 33, plays for Los Angeles Galaxy, whose Major League Soccer season ends this weekend.

[CretanBull]

And with that, the MLS just became an undeniable joke.

[denime]

"until the end of the season" = Sunday, 31 May 2009 ouch MLS

[Christoff]

LOL looks like LA is going to be missing their star for the first half of the season!

[CretanBull]

Beckham played a full MLS season, played international friendlies and WCQ games for England (with more of each to come), is going to play a half season for AC Milan - a team that will likely go deep into Champions League, and then jump right back into the 2009 MLS season? I'd say the Galaxy are getting majorly ripped off, and any arguements about the MLS trying to establish itself as a serious league are all out the window.

Do you think Chelsea will lend us Frank Lampard? No? Me neither....

[Red CB Toronto]

He will also being missing games to to World Cup qualifying, I wonder how the MLS and Galaxy is going to explain to all their sponsors that the poster boy of the league will be missing the first two months of the season, there has to be more to this, what would the MLS get out him missing so much time.

[denime]

Don't forget that he is not going for free.AC Milan will pay nice money to MLS,and that all they care anyway.

[RickyRockets]

Beckham played a full MLS season, played international friendlies and WCQ games for England (with more of each to come), is going to play a half season for AC Milan - a team that will likely go deep into Champions League, and then jump right back into the 2009 MLS season? I'd say the Galaxy are getting majorly ripped off, and any arguements about the MLS trying to establish itself as a serious league are all out the window.

Do you think Chelsea will lend us Frank Lampard? No? Me neither....

They're not in the CL this year.

[King Jeff]

They're not in the CL this year.

The irony, though, is that you play more games in the UEFA Cup than in the Champions League.

[CretanBull]

They're not in the CL this year.

Sorry, I meant UEFA Cup - same difference as far as the point about games played being made.

[ensco]

And with that, the MLS just became an undeniable joke.

No. Beckham never belonged here anyway. We're not players in the greater game.

MLS is what it is. A few notable players, a lot of journeymen, and some better younger players. Someday it could, maybe, be more.

Lapira and Freeman signing in the Norwegian second division, because it pays better, tells you all you need to know.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

hes gone to train not play, like he did with arsenal last year, i wouldnt stress it too much

[Ossington Mental Youth]

id be willing to bet he will be recalled for the MLS season, even if hes not i dont give a shit, fuck that dude and fuck his team

[canadian_bhoy]

Don't forget that last season Beckham trained with Arsenal in the MLS offseason. This situation seems to be a little different - but the only surprising thing out of all of this is the "end of the season". However there may be stipulations that LA can recall him for the start of MLS season.

[Roogsy]

hes gone to train not play, like he did with arsenal last year, i wouldnt stress it too much

I am not sure this is the same thing as last year. Last year he trained with Arsenal...without a contract.

This year he has a contract with Milan? There is the possibility this is more than simply "training". If he plays in a game, it is official, he's looking for an out.

[JDG]

The article indicates that he isn't heading over immediately after the season ends, so he will be availible to the Galaxy for their off season games. The article also makes it pretty clear that he will be rejoining the Galaxy for the start of the MLS season.
This isn't a big deal. He's going to stay match fit for England, and by next season he'll be weary enough to be less of a threat when we face him in league play.

[Fort York Redcoat]

He's moving his family by my reckoning since they don't care enough in Hollywoo. He may do some appearances for LA this year or maybe not but MLS is already thinking of the next big flash to spotlight instead of grow this league. Henry to the Miami Barcas! etc., etc. This really doesn't concern the attendance of real football fans anyway.

[djking2]

The article may have been edited in the last few minutes but it clearly says he will be back at the start of the MLS season. The original tagline quoted has been changed as well. No mention of staying to the end of the season

[SLBuu]

this is just a joke

[Shaughno]

No, not a joke... it's so Capello doesn't drop him from England as he said he will only pick players that are match fit.

[CretanBull]

No. Beckham never belonged here anyway. We're not players in the greater game.

MLS is what it is. A few notable players, a lot of journeymen, and some better younger players. Someday it could, maybe, be more.

Lapira and Freeman signing in the Norwegian second division, because it pays better, tells you all you need to know.

I'm not delusional about what the league is and where it's at, but as a supporter who has an interest in the growth of the game in Canada and America it's clear that this move hurts the credibility of the league. It's impossible to imagine a top star from a European league being sent out on loan to a summer league....could you imagine Manchester United sending Rooney out on loan to Zenit St.Petersburgh? What team would allow one of it's top players - the player that they are most heavily invested in, the player who's helped determine the value of the franchise itself -appear in another team's kit in league play? Could you imagine Chelsea allowing Lampard to come to Toronto for the summer? No, because the Premiership has intergrity as a league and understands the value of their assets and doesn't freely share/over expose them.


hes gone to train not play, like he did with arsenal last year, i wouldnt stress it too much

It's not a training arrangement, he's there on loan as a player for league and UEFA Cup games.


The article indicates that he isn't heading over immediately after the season ends, so he will be availible to the Galaxy for their off season games. The article also makes it pretty clear that he will be rejoining the Galaxy for the start of the MLS season.

He'll play in the Galaxy off season games, because the transfer window doesn't open until January. He'll rejoin the Galaxy, literally days after the Italian season ends...what kind of proformances are Galaxy fans going to get from an un-rested 34 player?



This isn't a big deal. He's going to stay match fit for England, and by next season he'll be weary enough to be less of a threat when we face him in league play.

Oh, it's good news for us for sure...I just think that it hurts the credibility of the league.

[TicTacTabarnack]

Don't forget that he is not going for free.AC Milan will pay nice money to MLS,and that all they care anyway.

Ka-Ching! LAG's going to get a nice return or at least subsidize their acquisition of Beckham. I doubt they'll let him be loaned right through the beginning of the season though. Just doesn't make any sense? I guess we'll find out on Friday.

On the flip side ... This may be a good way for MLS to sign key players and make some extra cash by loaning them out in the off-season?

[SLBuu]

No, not a joke... it's so Capello doesn't drop him from England as he said he will only pick players that are match fit.

i get that.... but i honestly think he going there for more than just training which in my mind makes LA a joke therefore making the league look stupid.

[Shaughno]

what kind of proformances are Galaxy fans going to get from an un-rested 34 player?



Knowing Beckham, not much will change. He's never been a player beater or known for his speed. Being tired doesn't affect his game as much as it might other players. Sure it may affect his performances, but not enough to stop him from supplying the team with goal opportunities. Think about it, the Galaxy are the highest scoring team in the league this year, want to take a guess why?

[brad]

Oh, it's good news for us for sure...I just think that it hurts the credibility of the league.

Disagree. If he was coming from the best league in the World, Capello would still not pick him if he wasn't playing regular, competitive football. It's about match fitness and does not reflect on the strength of the league from that angle.

On the contrary, if Beckham goes to Milan and makes any sort of impact in the Serie A, I think it reflects positively on the MLS. Especially to those who think good players are rotting away in this league.

[CretanBull]

Think about it, the Galaxy are the highest scoring team in the league this year, want to take a guess why?

'cause Becks isn't playing exhausted? At 33 years old, he's giving up his off-season rest period to play a half season of higher level football & UEFA Cups games, plus the England friendlies/WQC that were already on his schedule. This isn't about being tired and losing a step, this is about allowing your body to recover from the beating that it takes over the course of a season and not picking up any new bumps and bruises.

Beyond any of that, what other team/league would allow it's most valueable asset (in terms of marketing the league) to play in another league and wear another team's kit?

[CretanBull]

It's about match fitness and does not reflect on the strength of the league from that angle.

I'm not talking about the quality of the league, I'm talking about the integrity and credibility of the league. A business that doesn't protect the value of it's assets is a joke. You'd never see a top team in a top league loan out it's top player for any reason, the willingness for the Galaxy/MLS to do this puts the mickey mouse nature of this league on display to the world.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

aparrentaly....a part of the deal..is to have SHEVY play at LA on LOAN...once the season is over at Milan.....makes perfect sence...! :)



j/k...but ...hmmm who knows?! ;)

[tfcleeds]

I don't see what the big deal is personally. I have a feeling that there will be some stipulation where Goldenballs has to be back with the LA Galaxy for their preseason training.

And there are European players who ply their trade in the Americas during the European offseason. Brazilian players do it all the time. A couple of cases in point, Ze Roberto of Bayern Munich played with Santos during the summer, Adriano played with Sao Paulo I think. And those were just a couple of examples. I don't see anyone calling the Bundesliga or Serie A a joke just because some of their players are involved with other leagues during the offseason.

As someone pointed out, it probably more than anything has to do with Becks wanting to remain in the England frame. He has his reasons, I'm sure he'll be back with LAG in time for preseason.

[flatpicker]

I don't see what the big deal is...
The LA season is all but over now, he can go play somewhere else, make money for LA, and be back in time for the start of the MLS season.

The only way it would be bad is if he gets hurt or if he wears himself out with all the extra play (assuming he sees much action)

[brad]

I'm not talking about the quality of the league, I'm talking about the integrity and credibility of the league. A business that doesn't protect the value of it's assets is a joke. You'd never see a top team in a top league loan out it's top player for any reason, the willingness for the Galaxy/MLS to do this puts the mickey mouse nature of this league on display to the world.

Fair enough. However, we are no where near a top league, and a very long way away from being one. You'll also never see a top league that doesn't align with the International calendar.

It's a double edge sword though, and I do see your point. However, to increase the quality of this league, we need to start drawing (or developing and retaining) better caliber players. Not just retirement players, but younger players of quality. With the way our season is set up, players won't be playing competitive matches during a lot of qualifying rounds for International tournaments, which will hurt their chance for selection. African players won't be match fit during the African Cup of Nations.

The last thing the MLS needs to know for is being a league where International Careers go to die.

[Shaughno]

'cause Becks isn't playing exhausted? At 33 years old, he's giving up his off-season rest period to play a half season of higher level football & UEFA Cups games, plus the England friendlies/WQC that were already on his schedule. This isn't about being tired and losing a step, this is about allowing your body to recover from the beating that it takes over the course of a season and not picking up any new bumps and bruises.

Beyond any of that, what other team/league would allow it's most valueable asset (in terms of marketing the league) to play in another league and wear another team's kit?

Who's to say he'll be exhausted? He trained with Arsenal throughout the entire winter last year, then played the entire MLS season with some England call ups as well. Yet he still had a fantastic season, why would this be any different?

I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. He's proved in his play for England that he's still able to compete with the big names, who cares if it's AC Milan or Redbulls Salzburg that he plays/trains with over the off season?

[CretanBull]

I don't see what the big deal is personally. I have a feeling that there will be some stipulation where Goldenballs has to be back with the LA Galaxy for their preseason training.

I have no doubt that he'll be back, but I don't think that's the point. To me, from a business perspective, this is about protecting the league 'brand' and it's assets. This would be like Burger King allowing McDonald's to make the whopper for a few months. I think that if you want a whopper, then you should have to go to Burger King - know what I mean? Beckham isn't just 'a player' he's the walking embodiment of our league (whether we like it or not)...he is the MLS brand and that shouldn't be loaned out.



And there are European players who ply their trade in the Americas during the European offseason. Brazilian players do it all the time. A couple of cases in point, Ze Roberto of Bayern Munich played with Santos during the summer, Adriano played with Sao Paulo I think. And those were just a couple of examples. I don't see anyone calling the Bundesliga or Serie A a joke just because some of their players are involved with other leagues during the offseason.


Ze Roberto was without a contract when he signed with Santos...his contract with Munich had expired. Adriano played for Sao Paulo because they reached a (normal) loan agreement with Inter, and Adriano was out of favour at the time - he wasn't an icon of his team or league.



As someone pointed out, it probably more than anything has to do with Becks wanting to remain in the England frame. He has his reasons, I'm sure he'll be back with LAG in time for preseason.

I'm sure that's what it's about too...I understand the move from his perspective, I don't get it from a Galaxy/league one (other than keeping Becks happy).

[CretanBull]

Who's to say he'll be exhausted?

No one, but that's entirely besides the point. Having said that, it's not a stretch to think that an older player who is going to play through what should be his time off might get tired as a result. But again, that's besides the point.

[Roogsy]

He is a cash machine for LA isn't he?

[Christoff]

Who's to say he'll be exhausted? He trained with Arsenal throughout the entire winter last year, then played the entire MLS season with some England call ups as well. Yet he still had a fantastic season, why would this be any different?

I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. He's proved in his play for England that he's still able to compete with the big names, who cares if it's AC Milan or Redbulls Salzburg that he plays/trains with over the off season?

the difference is this time he is playing and training for the full off season(and from what i read when the artical was freshly posted, part of the MLS season), where as his training with Arseholes was only 3 weeks in Jan.
And this talk about "oh we arnt a top league" well we are suppose to be a top league, and MLS gets all pissy when they are looked at as a lesser league, as do most supporters, yet for some reason people back and support these bush league moves.

[The Kingpin]

AC Milan vice-president Adriano Galliani has confirmed the club hope to sign David Beckham on a short-term loan.

Beckham is trying to find himself a club in Europe to train with while the MLS season takes a break to maintain his fitness for international duty with England.

A number of clubs have been linked with the former Manchester United and Real Madrid star, but Milan are leading the race for Beckham's signature.

"Beckham wants to train and play with Milan," Galliani told Corriere Della Sera.

"We want him. He will arrive in January and we will sign him for the rest of the season.

Great deal

"It's not just a shop window deal, it's a great deal. He will be avaliable for Ancelotti for Serie A and the Uefa Cup.
"Football today is not just about tactics and technical abilities. It's about full stadiums and sponsors. No-one can beat the 65,000 fans we had on Sunday.

"The stadiums will only fill up with superstars like Beckham who has asked Milan for hospitality, not another club.

"With him, Kaka and Ronaldinho, it would be a dream team."

Milan coach Carlo Ancelotti has welcomed the prospect of Beckham joining the Rossoneri.

"For me it will be a pleasure, Beckham is a serious athlete, a great professional," Ancelotti told the club's official website.

"If he is available for four months with us, we will be very happy."

The 33-year-old is still under contract with LA Galaxy but Milan are prepared to sign him until the MLS season resumes.

[Shaughno]

What exactly, makes this a bush league move? He's being loaned to a TOP club, to keep his conditioning up for England, which I'm assuming he requested and LA obliged being that he is their cashcow.

[OneLoveOneEric]

IMO, the joke is that there are still people that doubt Becks, or think that he's somehow not the finest talent in this league. IS there a single other player from MLS that Milan would want on loan? Didn't think so.....

[tfcleeds]

I have no doubt that he'll be back, but I don't think that's the point. To me, from a business perspective, this is about protecting the league 'brand' and it's assets. This would be like Burger King allowing McDonald's to make the whopper for a few months. I think that if you want a whopper, then you should have to go to Burger King - know what I mean? Beckham isn't just 'a player' he's the walking embodiment of our league (whether we like it or not)...he is the MLS brand and that shouldn't be loaned out.



Ze Roberto was without a contract when he signed with Santos...his contract with Munich had expired. Adriano played for Sao Paulo because they reached a (normal) loan agreement with Inter, and Adriano was out of favour at the time - he wasn't an icon of his team or league.

I see your point when it comes to protecting the MLS 'brand' and everything, I guess its just one of those situations where the Beckham 'brand' carries far more weight than the MLS brand at this point in time, and the league will do what it can to accomodate their star player. In reality, MLS can't do much about it - what Beckham wants, he gets. If MLS can benefit from it financially in the meantime, I guess they'll have no problems allowing it.

As for Ze Roberto, I was unaware he was out of contract with Bayern at the time. All I know is, he was with Bayern at the start of the Bundesliga season, I just assumed it was a regular loan deal.

[Christoff]

Because LA owns him, their whole brand is based on him, hell you could say the whole leagues brand is based on him. This move is like letting Sundin go play for another team in a summer pro ice hockey league, you think the leafs will ever let that happen?

[ensco]

It's impossible to imagine a top star from a European league being sent out on loan to a summer league....could you imagine Manchester United sending Rooney out on loan to Zenit St.Petersburgh? What team would allow one of it's top players - the player that they are most heavily invested in, the player who's helped determine the value of the franchise itself -appear in another team's kit in league play? Could you imagine Chelsea allowing Lampard to come to Toronto for the summer? No, because the Premiership has intergrity as a league and understands the value of their assets and doesn't freely share/over expose them.

No, but I could very easily imagine Zenit loaning Arshavin to Man United, which is the more appropriate comparison.

On this integrity point, you're kidding, right? It's about the dough. For Man United, for Zenit, for Beckham, for TFC, for AC Milan....for everybody.

Don't forget, Beckham has an "opt out" clause in his Galaxy contract and could be a free agent Jan 1. He's doing the league/Galaxy a serious favour if he does this, instead of opting out.

[Shaughno]

Because LA owns him, their whole brand is based on him, hell you could say the whole leagues brand is based on him. This move is like letting Sundin go play for another team in a summer pro ice hockey league, you think the leafs will ever let that happen?


Becks could play nearly anywhere in the world, yet he's come to LA to supposedly help bring football to the forefront. He also is still a regular feature for England and wants to train with some of the best players in the world while he's in the offseason. I doubt LA, or the MLS even, have much say in the matter as I'm sure they are afraid he might just 'fuck off' to another league for good.

While it may be unorthodox, it's not a similar situation to anyone else, anywhere in the world, regardless of sport because of Beckham's status. In fact, I'll even venture to say, this is far from making the MLS look 'bush league'. The referreeing, the $2M salary cap, the arena fields/baseball/etc, all make it look more bushleague than this move ever will.

Think about it, he plays for AC Milan and does well... MLS gains recognition. He plays for AC and doesn't do well (I VERY highly doubt) and comes back as if nothing happened... but in top shape.

But... oh wait, this can't happen... it's not allowed it makes us look bush league! Ask Henrik Larsson about his loan spell at United and how it made his hometown team look like a bush league. :rolleyes:

[Bluenose13]

What exactly, makes this a bush league move? He's being loaned to a TOP club, to keep his conditioning up for England, which I'm assuming he requested and LA obliged being that he is their cashcow.Exactly.....This can't hurt the league at all. If anything it brings more needed exposure.

[Shaughno]

No, but I could very easily imagine Zenit loaning Arshavin to Man United, which is the more appropriate comparison.

On this integrity point, you're kidding, right? It's about the dough. For Man United, for Zenit, for Beckham, for TFC, for AC Milan....for everybody.

Don't forget, Beckham has an "opt out" clause in his Galaxy contract and could be a free agent Jan 1. He's doing the league/Galaxy a serious favour if he does this, instead of opting out.

Or as I stated, Helsingborg loaning Larsson in their offseason to United. It happens, the difference being Beckham is just a much bigger 'brand' if you will.

[CretanBull]

No, but I could very easily imagine Zenit loaning Arshavin to Man United, which is the more appropriate comparison.


No, the Rooney comparison is more appropriate because Rooney - like Beckham - is an 'untouchable' on his team and isn't on the transfer market. It's entirely likely that a guy like Arshavin could be loaned out because Zenit is looking to shop him (essentially what Zamalek has done with Zaki). There's no intention of the loaning team of selling the loaned player in this case.



On this integrity point, you're kidding, right? It's about the dough. For Man United, for Zenit, for Beckham, for TFC, for AC Milan....for everybody.

Don't forget, Beckham has an "opt out" clause in his Galaxy contract and could be a free agent Jan 1. He's doing the league/Galaxy a serious favour if he does this, instead of opting out.

I'm blown away how people don't see how this move reflects poorly on the MLS as a league. All the side issues - fitness, England, money etc. are all secondary to the heart of the issue, and that is the MLS not protecting the value of it's brand. If you can't imagine Burger King allowing McDonalds to make Whoppers, I don't know how you can accept MLS allowing Beckham to play footy with a AC Millan jersey on his back.

[Shaughno]

IMO, the joke is that there are still people that doubt Becks, or think that he's somehow not the finest talent in this league. IS there a single other player from MLS that Milan would want on loan? Didn't think so.....


Also find it hilarious. I mean, he's wanted by multiple big teams. He's commanding attention to himself, which indirectly commands attention to the league itself. Can you see AC making a move for Blanco/Angel/Emilio/Donovan/insert any other 'big name' MLS player...

[Christoff]

Becks could play nearly anywhere in the world, yet he's come to LA to supposedly help bring football to the forefront. He also is still a regular feature for England and wants to train with some of the best players in the world while he's in the offseason. I doubt LA, or the MLS even, have much say in the matter as I'm sure they are afraid he might just 'fuck off' to another league for good.

While it may be unorthodox, it's not a similar situation to anyone else, anywhere in the world, regardless of sport because of Beckham's status. In fact, I'll even venture to say, this is far from making the MLS look 'bush league'. The referreeing, the $2M salary cap, the arena fields/baseball/etc, all make it look more bushleague than this move ever will.

Think about it, he plays for AC Milan and does well... MLS gains recognition. He plays for AC and doesn't do well (I VERY highly doubt) and comes back as if nothing happened... but in top shape.

But... oh wait, this can't happen... it's not allowed it makes us look bush league! Ask Henrik Larsson about his loan spell at United and how it made his hometown team look like a bush league. :rolleyes:

LOL dude if you dont want to say its a bush league move, you dont need to, in my mind it is.
The salary cap, the arena stuff and even the referreeing arnt what make it to the world-stage, most common fans or even hard-up EPL fans dont care enough about MLS to know about the things the supporters of this league dislike, what they will see is MLS having to send off one of the only stars the league has to another team to keep him 'match fit'.

[flatpicker]

...what they will see is MLS having to send off one of the only stars the league has to another team to keep him 'match fit'.


that makes no sense!

He is staying match fit so he can play for England!

It has nothing to do with MLS not keeping him sharp enough...
The season is over... what better way to stay fit then to keep playing???

[CretanBull]

Or as I stated, Helsingborg loaning Larsson in their offseason to United. It happens, the difference being Beckham is just a much bigger 'brand' if you will.

Exactly, it makes the Galaxy - a team trying to establish itself on the world footy map - look like Helsingborg...which probably isn't what they dream about in LA board rooms.

[Shaughno]

No, the Rooney comparison is more appropriate because Rooney - like Beckham - is an 'untouchable' on his team and isn't on the transfer market. It's entirely likely that a guy like Arshavin could be loaned out because Zenit is looking to shop him (essentially what Zamalek has done with Zaki). There's no intention of the loaning team of selling the loaned player in this case.

I'm blown away how people don't see how this move reflects poorly on the MLS as a league. All the side issues - fitness, England, money etc. are all secondary to the heart of the issue, and that is the MLS not protecting the value of it's brand. If you can't imagine Burger King allowing McDonalds to make Whoppers, I don't know how you can accept MLS allowing Beckham to play footy with a AC Millan jersey on his back.


On your first point. No, it's not. AC Milan would be United in this situation, the larger club. Zenit would be LA, holding onto a star. Or wait for it... Helsingborg, holding onto Larsson, yet letting him go to a much larger club in Manchester United during the club's offseason, on loan. It makes no sense to use Rooney going to a much lesser club as an example. That's like saying TFC will loan out Dichio to the Toronto Lynx... just doesn't make sense.

On your second point. I can understand where you're coming from, but you're missing one VERY important thing. MLS is looking to expand their image globally, any way they can. This isn't the food industry, there is no comparison since it's a sport and player are frequently loaned about here and there. Everyone who knows anything about Beckham, knows he plays for LA Galaxy in Los Angeles, California, USA. With Beckham going to AC on loan, it broadens Beckham's presense, creates a stir in the Italian press which.... wait for it.... HELPS THE MLS BRAND! Oh my god...their entire use for Beckham has been and always will be to market the league and this does just that, on a much higher platform.

[Oldtimer]

This move does one thing. It will silence the naysayers who say that Beckham is "washed up."

If he proves that he can still play at top Euro clubs, it will ensure that he continues to draw fans to MLS games.

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.

Milan wins - Beckham will help to win the CL, more "star power." Italian ladies will fill up their stadium, which is not sold out.

LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

Only TFC doesn't win (except for TFC's share of league revenue-sharing) as we don't care that much about Beckham and will fill our stadium regardless.

[Shaughno]

Exactly, it makes the Galaxy - a team trying to establish itself on the world footy map - look like Helsingborg...which probably isn't what they dream about in LA board rooms.


Trying to look like a team who's jumping above their league's typical play by making semi-frequent Champions League runs... helped by the star they lent to a major club.

Amazing... that is EXACTLY what they are trying to do.

[Shaughno]

This move does one thing. It will silence the naysayers who say that Beckham is "washed up."

If he proves that he can still play at top Euro clubs, it will ensure that he continues to draw fans to MLS games.

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.

Milan wins - help to win the CL, more "star power." Italian ladies will fill up the stadium.

LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

Only TFC doesn't win (except for TFC's share of league revenue-sharing) as we don't care about Beckham and will fill our stadium regardless.


Bang fucking on with that post.:thumbsup:

[Bluenose13]

I'm blown away how people don't see how this move reflects poorly on the MLS as a league. All the side issues - fitness, England, money etc. are all secondary to the heart of the issue, and that is the MLS not protecting the value of it's brand. If you can't imagine Burger King allowing McDonalds to make Whoppers, I don't know how you can accept MLS allowing Beckham to play footy with a AC Millan jersey on his back.I would agree if this league was on more solid ground & was looked at as a minor league around the world.

Having Beckham suit up for for one of the best teams in the world in one of the best leagues in the world shows that he still has it. The fact that he is a very good player in this league but not over dominant will show that this league has a higher playing standard than most people believe.

Knowing that Beckham is still involved with the national team will only make sense to most people that he stays in top form to play for England & does not diminish the brand of either the Galaxy or the MLS IMO.

[Bluenose13]

This move does one thing. It will silence the naysayers who say that Beckham is "washed up."

If he proves that he can still play at top Euro clubs, it will ensure that he continues to draw fans to MLS games.

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.

Milan wins - Beckham will help to win the CL, more "star power." Italian ladies will fill up their stadium, which is not sold out.

LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

Only TFC doesn't win (except for TFC's share of league revenue-sharing) as we don't care that much about Beckham and will fill our stadium regardless.Wish I had of read this before I started typing.....Well said.

[Christoff]

that makes no sense!

He is staying match fit so he can play for England!

It has nothing to do with MLS not keeping him sharp enough...
The season is over... what better way to stay fit then to keep playing???

Do you know of a player in Allsvenskan or any other summer league that goes on loan over the off season to keep match ready for the national team? because i sure as hell dont.
And while I understand this will bring media attention to the league, what you lot keep missing is this isnt the media attention we should be looking for, this isnt how the MLS brand should be getting out.

[Boris]

Do you know of a player in Allsvenskan or any other summer league that goes on loan over the off season to keep match ready for the national team? because i sure as hell dont.
And while I understand this will bring media attention to the league, what you lot keep missing is this isnt the media attention we should be looking for, this isnt how the MLS brand should be getting out.

while its not how the mls brand should be getting out the fact of the matter is that its how MLS wants to be branded....a.k.a $$

[Shaughno]

Do you know of a player in Allsvenskan or any other summer league that goes on loan over the off season to keep match ready for the national team? because i sure as hell dont.
And while I understand this will bring media attention to the league, what you lot keep missing is this isnt the media attention we should be looking for, this isnt how the MLS brand should be getting out.

How so? Can you give a specific example as to why this isn't how the MLS brand should be getting out? In fact, use the points below and counter argue them please.




LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

[Detroit_TFC]

The article in the Guardian said that its a free loan. I don't think that MLS/LAG gets anything from this, other than a little PR when the Gals get mentioned.

[Canadian Blue]

TFC's season is not even over yet but I see the off season BS has already begun. First of all, if Beckham wants to go play in Serie A then fine he is good enough and will be an asset to Milan. Obviously Beckham still wants to be considered for England so what better way to do that than play for arguably one of the best teams in the world? If Beckham wins a title with Milan he will have the prestige of winning Championships in what are probably the top 3 leagues in the world EPL, La Liga and Serie A.

In my opinion this creates absolutely no negetivity for the MLS considering this whole move is simply about Beckham's desire to contiune to play for England and to hopefully have some role in the next WC in 2010. As others have stated if Beckham does well in Italy as he probably will this will only help further the exposure of the MLS.

[ACSertL]

I mean who's to say that he even gets regular time at Milan? Sure he will be available for all of the games, doesn't mean he's going to get into the lineup or even on the bench.

[OneLoveOneEric]

Exactly, it makes the Galaxy - a team trying to establish itself on the world footy map - look like Helsingborg...which probably isn't what they dream about in LA board rooms.

Looking like Helsingborgs is actually a step up for the Galaxy. They have a long history, and produce quality internationals for the Sweden team, which is a very good one. Only the Galaxy think the Galaxy are better than Helsingborgs.

[joel]

This is a good deal for everyone. MLS has a top player on England, he will play in the 2010 world cup, so more americans will watch it, aside from USA being in it. Beckham keeps fit, LAG gets money, ACM gets shirt sales.

Lets not kid ourselves, it is the fact that the MLS season runs at the opposite time of the euro leagues is the ONLY reason this is possible. So whine away, it's the league structure that makes it feasible, if we could support an Aug-May schedule, he wouldn't be going anywhere.

[Canadian Blue]

I mean who's to say that he even gets regular time at Milan? Sure he will be available for all of the games, doesn't mean he's going to get into the lineup or even on the bench.


Your joking right? There is no doubt he will be playing and if not regularly he will defo be on the bench every game barring any injury

[ACSertL]

Your joking right? There is no doubt he will be playing and if not regularly he will defo be on the bench every game barring any injury

Well Milan boast a midfield with Kaka, Pirlo, Gattuso, Flamini, and Ronaldinho...so I wouldn't say it is a gimme. I think Beckham is a nice addition to the Milan squad I just don't think he's automatically in the starting XI.

[CretanBull]

On your first point. No, it's not. AC Milan would be United in this situation, the larger club. Zenit would be LA, holding onto a star. Or wait for it... Helsingborg, holding onto Larsson, yet letting him go to a much larger club in Manchester United during the club's offseason, on loan. It makes no sense to use Rooney going to a much lesser club as an example. That's like saying TFC will loan out Dichio to the Toronto Lynx... just doesn't make sense.


You're missing the point. It's not about the size of the club, it's about the intentions behind the loan move. In the original example, a player like Rooney would never be loaned out because the club has no intention of selling him. Zenit could easily loan out Arshavin to a larger club for the same of exposure because they intend to sell him. You're trying to make a comparison on relative circumstance, the original point was about intentions - not circumstance. There's no need to debate the point any further.



On your second point. I can understand where you're coming from, but you're missing one VERY important thing. MLS is looking to expand their image globally, any way they can. This isn't the food industry, there is no comparison since it's a sport and player are frequently loaned about here and there. Everyone who knows anything about Beckham, knows he plays for LA Galaxy in Los Angeles, California, USA. With Beckham going to AC on loan, it broadens Beckham's presense, creates a stir in the Italian press which.... wait for it.... HELPS THE MLS BRAND! Oh my god...their entire use for Beckham has been and always will be to market the league and this does just that, on a much higher platform.

If you want to continue a discussion with me, you're going to have to...wait for it...cut the patronizing bullshit. I'm not a 7 year old kid. Don't address me like one.

I think it comes down to this...there are some people who think that this will generate exposure and hype for the league and that's a good thing. While others see this as a league whoring out the brand that it's trying to establish for itself. I understand both points of view, and they're not mutually exclusive, but I think - especially at this point in this league's developement - it should take the attitude of "If you want to see Beckham play, come to see an MLS game" and not allow his brand to extend itself into other leagues.

[MartinUtd]

I don't see Beckham playing a full 90, or even 45. AC Milan is likely to use him as the super sub in the last 15 like the English National team is.

I could be wrong though, it'll certainly be an interesting story to follow.

[denime]

It sad to see 3pages being full about Beckham instead TFC,and it is not an official off season.
I can see a crazy off season coming,and us writing about cooking too. ;)

[CretanBull]

Looking like Helsingborgs is actually a step up for the Galaxy. They have a long history, and produce quality internationals for the Sweden team, which is a very good one. Only the Galaxy think the Galaxy are better than Helsingborgs.

I'm only saying that when investors decided to start a footy league in North America I think it's safe to assume that they were dreaming big and didn't have clubs like Helsingborgs in mind. I'd bet everything that I owned that the founders of the Galaxy said things like "One day, in a city like LA, we could be the Manchester United of North America" and the name Helsingborgs was never, never mentioned. Yet, by loaning out their brand they've pointed themselves in the direction of Helsingborgs, not Manchester United.

[Bluenose13]

I think it comes down to this...there are some people who think that this will generate exposure and hype for the league and that's a good thing. While others see this as a league whoring out the brand that it's trying to establish for itself. I understand both points of view, and they're not mutually exclusive, but I think - especially at this point in this league's developement - it should take the attitude of "If you want to see Beckham play, come to see an MLS game" and not allow his brand to extend itself into other leagues.If this was the league's decision then you would be right but this is Beckham's will to stay fit & to keep his spot on the national team. I don't see how this is the league whoring out it's star player.

[joel]

Dude you are totally missing the point, really. It doesn't matter what you want to speculate on and on about..the fact is.

- MLS schedule does not run in time with the europe and FIFA schedules
- Beckham wants to play for england
- Beckham is going to do what's best for his career to be fit for the England squad.

You can make up what is means for the league and this and that, but any intelligent fan will see it as exactly what I posted above, a well thought out move by a player who has the ability to, and wants to play for his home country in the 2010 World Cup, given his current league schedule would not enable him to keep top form.

[CretanBull]

If this was the league's decision then you would be right but this is Beckham's will to stay fit & to keep his spot on the national team. I don't see how this is the league whoring out it's star player.

Beckham could have stayed fit by training with another club (as he did last year) but in order for an actual loan agreement to be worked out it would have to be done through the league. I'm sure it was Beckham's idea, but at the same time I'm also willing to bet that the league probably tripped over itself to make it happen when they probably should have been more protective of their assets.

It's just a different view of things. Truth be told, the league doesn't have much of a reputation to lose, but I cringe at the thought of how this move re-inforces the idea that some people have of this being a mickey mouse league....the dream big LA Galazxy and their $250 million dollar player solidified themselves in the ranks of Helsingborgs, when I'm sure they were chasing a different model altogether.

[brad]

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.


You mean UEFA Cup, right :)

[brad]

The article in the Guardian said that its a free loan. I don't think that MLS/LAG gets anything from this, other than a little PR when the Gals get mentioned.

Well, they do get to keep Beckham. We know that England is his number one priority, and if he does have an opt out in his contract, saying no might very well have meant the end of his tenure in LA.

[CretanBull]

Dude you are totally missing the point, really. It doesn't matter what you want to speculate on and on about..the fact is.

- MLS schedule does not run in time with the europe and FIFA schedules
- Beckham wants to play for england
- Beckham is going to do what's best for his career to be fit for the England squad.

You can make up what is means for the league and this and that, but any intelligent fan will see it as exactly what I posted above, a well thought out move by a player who has the ability to, and wants to play for his home country in the 2010 World Cup, given his current league schedule would not enable him to keep top form.

You're missing the point - I understand (and haven't argued against) any of the points that you've made and I realize what Beckham's motivations are...everything that I've said from my first post in this thread has been about how I think this move reflects on the league, that is all.

EDIT: I don't think Beckham is thinking about playing in 2010, I just think he wants to breal Bobby Moore's record for England caps and help get England through the qualification process. If a 36 year old Becks is one of our top 6 or 7 midfielders in 2010, we're sunk!

For the record, I'm an England supporter and want to see him on the team...my view on this is from the perspective of someone who wants to see the MLS establish itself as a credible league.

[OneLoveOneEric]

I'm only saying that when investors decided to start a footy league in North America I think it's safe to assume that they were dreaming big and didn't have clubs like Helsingborgs in mind. I'd bet everything that I owned that the founders of the Galaxy said things like "One day, in a city like LA, we could be the Manchester United of North America" and the name Helsingborgs was never, never mentioned. Yet, by loaning out their brand they've pointed themselves in the direction of Helsingborgs, not Manchester United.

I agree with you there. Where I imagine we'll disagree is that I believe that dream is a delusion. Others here think soccer will really take hold in North America. I'm not one of them.

[Bluenose13]

Beckham could have stayed fit by training with another club (as he did last year) but in order for an actual loan agreement to be worked out it would have to be done through the league. I'm sure it was Beckham's idea, but at the same time I'm also willing to bet that the league probably tripped over itself to make it happen when they probably should have been more protective of their assets.

It's just a different view of things. Truth be told, the league doesn't have much of a reputation to lose, but I cringe at the thought of how this move re-inforces the idea that some people have of this being a mickey mouse league....the dream big LA Galazxy and their $250 million dollar player solidified themselves in the ranks of Helsingborgs, when I'm sure they were chasing a different model altogether.The other side of that arguement from the league would be......If we want to sign top flight European international stars we will have to bend so these players can stay match fit for there national sides. This would be the only way that top stars would agree to join MLS in the future.

[joel]

Beckham could have stayed fit by training with another club (as he did last year) but in order for an actual loan agreement to be worked out it would have to be done through the league. I'm sure it was Beckham's idea, but at the same time I'm also willing to bet that the league probably tripped over itself to make it happen when they probably should have been more protective of their assets.

I just don't agree. Merely training with a club will not keep you sharp enough to play for England. You need competitve games.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

im sure there is a clause when he has to report back to the Galaxy...this is just a training exercise for him.

[Beach_Red]

The other side of that arguement from the league would be......If we want to sign top flight European international stars we will have to bend so these players can stay match fit for there national sides. This would be the only way that top stars would agree to join MLS in the future.

Yes.

Let's face it, there's what MLS wants to be and what MLS is and a long way in between.

I'm one of those people who does think soccer will take hold in North America, but it's going to to have to do stuff like this along the way - not very often, though, it's not like this will come up again too soon.

[CretanBull]

The other side of that arguement from the league would be......If we want to sign top flight European international stars we will have to bend so these players can stay match fit for there national sides. This would be the only way that top stars would agree to join MLS in the future.

I think that it was a problem that no one anticipated...Beckham had been cut from the England squad when he came to the MLS and no other sigings on the MLS radar were of age/quality to play for any of the European national teams. To the point though, I think that it would be less of an issue with other players because I doubt the league as a whole would have as much invested in another player like it does with Beckham. If the league brings in another $250 million player, it will be a nice problem to have :D


I just don't agree. Merely training with a club will not keep you sharp enough to play for England. You need competitve games.

For the kind of minutes that Beckham will play, training probably would do really. It's not like he's going to sit around eating pizza and cheese burgers in the off season knowing WCQ games are coming up. At 33, he knows what he's doing. Realistically, his role is going to be as a playing coach who only plays a few minutes.

[trane]

All I can say, as a Milan and TFC supporter this is great. Milan will have a midfield of Pirlo, Gattuso, Becks, Kaka, and Ronaldinho, does not get better then that (age being the only concern) and Galaxy will get either a tiered Beckham back, or he may not even come back. Either way it is a win/win for me as a supporter.

By the way, Becks will have quite the resume at the end of his carrer, Man U, Real , AC Milan and LA. ( one just does not seem to belong)

[The Kingpin]

...it should take the attitude of "If you want to see Beckham play, come to see an MLS game" and not allow his brand to extend itself into other leagues.

And there it is. The core point.

[Oldtimer]

You mean UEFA Cup, right :)

You're right. I don't follow Italian footy that closely (I follow EPL and French league 1).

[joel]

And there it is. The core point.


No it's not...any Serie A fan (especially one in Europe) is not tuning into MLS games, if anything having exposure in Serie A will entice fans to look into the league more..it's good advertising.

Beckham isn't enough of a game-changer to keep him exclusively MLS and expect people to just bolt to MLS fandom...

[Vindaloo]

This move does one thing. It will silence the naysayers who say that Beckham is "washed up."

If he proves that he can still play at top Euro clubs, it will ensure that he continues to draw fans to MLS games.

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.

Milan wins - Beckham will help to win the CL, more "star power." Italian ladies will fill up their stadium, which is not sold out.

LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

Only TFC doesn't win (except for TFC's share of league revenue-sharing) as we don't care that much about Beckham and will fill our stadium regardless.

Post of the month! Refreshing to see some reality for once.

[Bluenose13]

Just posted on Sporting Life.......

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/10/22/SOCCER_Beckham_Snap.html&TEAMHD=soccer

[trane]

As a Milan fan I cannot get over how much tallent we will have in the mid Pirlo, Gattuso, Becks, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Flamini , Seederof , Ambrosini. I think that Becks may end up staying in Milan, or at least in Europe, if thinks do not get better in LA.

[james]

as long as Beckham is back for the start of the MLS season then who cares. He is keeping him self in shape durring the MLS off season. And making Galaxy some money while hes at it. The only worry would be if he got a bad injury and missed most of another MLS season!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think frustration is bound to happen when

Becks- shows the world our league season isn't enough to prove one's talent level
Milan- is using him more for a brand than a player
LA- is ceding him to Europe for an uncertain amount of time and getting him back in uncertain condition
MLS- is looking like they can't even buy and keep a player interested in their place int the league regardless the money.

but as a fan of the game I'm not really influenced by his move. This league should be worried. LA should be worried.

[Shakes McQueen]

The story was clear that he is coming back for the beginning of the MLS season - he is simply staying match fit during the off-season for England call-ups. I don't see the big deal with it.

If anything, it HELPS the league, because it keeps Beckham's profile high during the off-season.

To all the people saying this is bad, because it shows that MLS isn't a top league - was that ever in dispute? A top player getting loaned in the off-season looks no worse than, say, a player going to the Danish 2nd Division to earn more money, or teams playing on carpeted asphalt, or teams playing in front of 8,000 people.

The reality is, this league has a ton of growing up to do, on all fronts, before it's a serious league. In the meantime, I have no problem with moves like this.

At least under this arrangement, the MLS get to keep him. My suspicion is that he might have left the Galaxy if they didn't make a deal.

- Scott

[Bobo]

Milan are a joke. Here's what President' Galliani had to say lol


"Football today is about full stadiums and sponsors and superstars like Beckham fill them up. With him, Kaka and Ronaldinho, it will be a dream team."

[Shakes McQueen]

Milan are a joke. Here's what President' Galliani had to say lol


"Football today is about full stadiums and sponsors and superstars like Beckham fill them up. With him, Kaka and Ronaldinho, it will be a dream team."




Haha - one's old, one's overweight, and one's gone to Chelsea after this season. Dream team, indeed. :D

- Scott

[SLBuu]

$$ Dream Team $$

and when beckham gets injured playing in Italy we'll have to deal with the Media Circus of 'why doesn't he play' or 'why did they let him go, now he's hurt and cant make more $$ for us'

[Shakes McQueen]

$$ Dream Team $$

and when beckham gets injured playing in Italy we'll have to deal with the Media Circus of 'why doesn't he play' or 'why did they let him go, now he's hurt and cant make more $$ for us'

My suspicion is that he won't be a starter for AC Milan. He'll be a super-sub cash-cow.

Unless Galliani really want's to disrupt whatever chemistry has club currently has, in the middle of their season.

- Scott

[Bobo]

$$ Dream Team $$


Exactly, Galliani even came out and said it. Full stadiums and sponsors. I'd be pretty embarrassed if I was a Milan fan.


Ancelotti will be forced to play him at the start, but after a few crap appearances he'll rot on the bench. Seedorf is more useful.


And I've lost the little respect I had for Becks. Hopefully LA comes to Toronto in at least June.

[SLBuu]

My suspicion is that he won't be a starter for AC Milan. He'll be a super-sub cash-cow.

Unless Galliani really want's to disrupt whatever chemistry has club currently has, in the middle of their season.

- Scott


you may be right, but if one of their wingers go down, baby becks will begin to start games.

i honestly hope he ends up staying so we dont have to put up with all the BS that surrounds him.

[trane]

Exactly, Galliani even came out and said it. Full stadiums and sponsors. I'd be pretty embarrassed if I was a Milan fan.


Ancelotti will be forced to play him at the start, but after a few crap appearances he'll rot on the bench. Seedorf is more useful.


And I've lost the little respect I had for Becks. Hopefully LA comes to Toronto in at least June.

If I was an Inter fan I would always be embarrased.

Who is going to Chelsea?

[Shakes McQueen]

If I was an Inter fan I would always be embarrased.

Who is going to Chelsea?

There have been strong rumours that Milan made a deal with Chelsea to sell Kaka after this season. The rumour is also that the price has already been negotiated, and everything.

You may recall that Chelsea had been making overtures for Kaka during the transfer window, that included incredibly high sums of money...

- Scott

[trane]

Despite our shit start we are only three points behind Inter, we will win Serie A this year 2008/2009, and then Champions League in 2010. Inter di Merda.

[trane]

There have been strong rumours that Milan made a deal with Chelsea to sell Kaka after this season. The rumour is also that the price has already been negotiated, and everything.

You may recall that Chelsea had been making overtures for Kaka during the transfer window, that included incredibly high sums of money...

- Scott

I have read this, but I have a hard time believing that Milan will sell one of its younger players. Youth is what we need, we have abundent talent, but most of it is on the wrong side of 30. The money would have to be exeptional, and we would have to have some serious players in the wings.

[SLBuu]

Who is going to Chelsea?


There have been strong rumours that Milan made a deal with Chelsea to sell Kaka after this season.

Dont worry, you guys have Becks! LMAO

[trane]

^ We have much more then Beck's my friend, we have Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Flamini, Ronaldinho, Ambrosini and Kaka is only a rumour. We can beat any team in Europe on any given day. If we let go of Kaka it will be to bring in a younger upcoming player or players.

[Shaughno]

What ever happened to that Pato kid? He still with Milan?

[trane]

^ He is but he is playing as a striker, I am only talking about our Mids ( or those who are playing mid/attacking mid for Milan). He is good, but wel play a 4-3-2-1, he and Borrielo , a bigger stiker share time upfront. Kaka and Ronaldinho play most of the time as the two attacking mids.

[SLBuu]

^ We have much more then Beck's my friend, we have Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Flamini, Ronaldinho, Ambrosini and Kaka is only a rumour. We can beat any team in Europe on any given day. If we let go of Kaka it will be to bring in a younger upcoming player or players.

apparently Galianni doesn't rate them very highly if he's willing to try and grab becks from LA

........just my opinion


:hulk:

.........^^ this is cool... lol

[ensco]

OK I'm going to repeat something I wrote earlier in the thread:

"Beckham has the right to opt out of his Galaxy contract on Dec 31 2008"

So all you people flying off the handle about the "denigration" of the MLS brand, think about that, and tell me what you would do differently.

From Beckham's point of view, he wants to play top football (which playing for the Galaxy doesn't accomplish in any sense), but doesn't want to be seen as a carpetbagger who left MLS high and dry. Beckham has been considerate of appearances in terms of how this is presented.

If the Galaxy/MLS don't go along with this, Beckham just opts out and leaves them holding the bag.

By the way, this assertion that the Galaxy ownership had "bigger objectives than being Helsingborg" is not true. I'll put up links that show that AEG's only interest is commercial - they invest in players/teams/sports properties to earn a return. Period. Ask any LA Kings fan. They do not care about the status of their team per se, at all.

What Anschutz (AEG's owner) has a passion for, is conservative Christian causes.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Philip-F-Anschutz_DSAK.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/philip-anschutz-the-westerner-407105.html

[Shakes McQueen]

I have read this, but I have a hard time believing that Milan will sell one of its younger players. Youth is what we need, we have abundent talent, but most of it is on the wrong side of 30. The money would have to be exeptional, and we would have to have some serious players in the wings.

The reported money was exceptional - in the area of 80 million Euros.

Nonetheless, Galliani doesn't seem to care much about youth - he seems more concerned with big names to sell jerseys and tickets. Why else bring in an overweight party animal like Ronnie Gaucho?

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

OK I'm going to repeat something I wrote earlier in the thread:

"Beckham has the right to opt out of his Galaxy contract on Dec 31 2008"

So all you people flying off the handle about the "denigration" of the MLS brand, think about that, and tell me what you would do differently.

From Beckham's point of view, he wants to play top football (which playing for the Galaxy doesn't accomplish in any sense), but doesn't want to be seen as a carpetbagger who left MLS high and dry.

If the Galaxy/MLS don't go along with this, Beckham just opts out and leaves them holding the bag.

By the way, this assertion that the Galaxy ownership had bigger objectives than being "Helsingborg" is not true. I'll put up links that show that AEG's only interest is commercial - they do not care about the status of their team in world football.

You're exactly right. That's why I said he would have probably left the Galaxy if they didn't make this deal.

- Scott

[Shaughno]

The reported money was exceptional - in the area of 80 million Euros.

Nonetheless, Galliani doesn't seem to care much about youth - he seems more concerned with big names to sell jerseys and tickets. Why else bring in an overweight party animal like Ronnie Gaucho?

- Scott


3 goals in 6 games... and he's hardly playing like shit. Despite his 'party' lifestyle, he still produces results.

I was secretly hoping Manchester United would scoop him up to be honest.

[trane]

apparently Galianni doesn't rate them very highly if he's willing to try and grab becks from LA



Becks, is a different player then any of them, he is an opportunity that came up, Milan took it. He is not comming in to replace any of the other players. Flamini and Gattuso are more of the holding mid type players, Pirlo a playmaker, Kaka and Ronaldinho are attacking mids. Becks is none of those, he adds another dimension.

[Shaughno]

I'd agree with that. Becks is such a weird player. He doesn't really play like any other 'set' midfielder. He's quite versatile despite what a lot of people think and he always seems to know where everyone is on the pitch.

[Oldtimer]

By the way, this assertion that the Galaxy ownership had "bigger objectives than being Helsingborg" is not true. I'll put up links that show that AEG's only interest is commercial - they invest in players/teams/sports properties to earn a return. Period. Ask any LA Kings fan. They do not care about the status of their team per se, at all.


AEG is basically LA's MLSE.

[OneLoveOneEric]

The more I think about this the more I feel like it's a sign that Becks regrets his early move to LA.... I think he now knows he could have continued on at a high level in Europe, and he made his decision to leave while out of favour with Capello at Madrid.

[trane]

I'd agree with that. Becks is such a weird player. He doesn't really play like any other 'set' midfielder. He's quite versatile despite what a lot of people think and he always seems to know where everyone is on the pitch.

I realy like him , despite the hype, great sense, and great distripution, great vision, qualities that are usualy found in a central mid.

[ensco]

AEG is basically LA's MLSE.

Bang on.

[trane]

The more I think about this the more I feel like it's a sign that Becks regrets his early move to LA.... I think he now knows he could have continued on at a high level in Europe, and he made his decision to leave while out of favour with Capello at Madrid.


I agree. I would not be suprised if Capello actaualy had a hand in arrenging this move.

[GeorgeB]

This move does one thing. It will silence the naysayers who say that Beckham is "washed up."

If he proves that he can still play at top Euro clubs, it will ensure that he continues to draw fans to MLS games.

Beckham wins - he gets in shape, helps guarantee an England call-up, and gets a chance for a CL win.

Milan wins - Beckham will help to win the CL, more "star power." Italian ladies will fill up their stadium, which is not sold out.

LA wins - cash from the loan will help the bottom line for AEG at a time that the US economy is hurting. Their star player proves that he is still good enough to play with the "big boys" and maintains his value. He comes back fit and ready to contribute next season.

MLS wins - They'll likely get a cut of the cash. Their star draw (who was losing some of his drawing lustre) comes back with a refurbished image, and will still sell jerseys and fill stadiums.

Only TFC doesn't win (except for TFC's share of league revenue-sharing) as we don't care that much about Beckham and will fill our stadium regardless.addidas wins too.they get to sell more AC Milan jerseys with the Beckham name on it.

[Roogsy]

Hmmm...the Globe's article doesn't make it sound so innocent.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081022.wsptbecks1022/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home
Firstly...if it is indeed just a loan move...I agree with Cretan, it makes LA look Mickey Mouse. No top tier team loans out their star player, ever. Name me one.

Second, like I said earlier today, if it was just for "keeping fit" why not the same scenario as last year and work out in England without a contract? A loan complicates things...and personally, after the disappointment of what LA has been, I am thinking it's possible Becky's on his way back to the other side of the world.

[Shakes McQueen]

I actually like David Beckham, and hope he does well at AC Milan. In every interview I've seen or read, he's always comes across as a really nice guy. He's also a great salesman for MLS, and his coming here is no doubt part of the reason guys like Thierry Henry are even looking across the Atlantic at our league in the first place.

I'm glad they found a resolution to let him play top-quality football, and still continue his career in MLS.

Shaughno: As you may have noticed from my signature, I'm a Barca fan. So please don't listen to anything I have to say on Ronaldinho. I'm still bitter, and thus, incredibly biased. :D

[Keyman]

Wow, so this is the first I've heard of this.

Um, on one hand it makes the league look like a joke. On the other hand it makes the league look good. On one hand it makes Beckham look smart, it also shows he's still got it, but on the other hand it could make him look like a dick who has no respect or actual heart for his team.

Overall, I honestly just don't care, this league is never going to be a respected worldwide league. This is the kind of shit we're going to have to deal with for years to come, so get used to it.

[Chevy]

^^ If it were any other player in MLS everyone would be saying how great it was for MLS to have players training overseas with a top club. Didn't Wynne and Edu train with Aston or somebody in the EPL last off season?? That was great news.

The issue here is that people think Beckham won't come back. If not, that's fine but at least it gives some legitimacy to MLS when one of its own (even if its only the highest profile/paid player) can still compete at the highest levels.

[OneLoveOneEric]

Trane, you were right! It was Capeelo who orchestrated the move:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/23/serieafootball-acmilan

[Pachuco]

^^ If it were any other player in MLS everyone would be saying how great it was for MLS to have players training overseas with a top club. Didn't Wynne and Edu train with Aston or somebody in the EPL last off season?? That was great news.

The issue here is that people think Beckham won't come back. If not, that's fine but at least it gives some legitimacy to MLS when one of its own (even if its only the highest profile/paid player) can still compete at the highest levels.

Actually, my beef with this is that there's a possibility he gets hurt and Beckham doesn't play again. The difference is, if that happens to Edu or Wynne, then no big deal. If that happens to Beckham, you can see the MLS attendance numbers go back to what it was in 2004. There is no doubt he sells out every stadium he walks into in the MLS, he also sells more jerseys then any player in the MLS, that is something you need to protect.

[Oldtimer]

Trane, you were right! It was Capeelo who orchestrated the move:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/23/serieafootball-acmilan

Then the Globe article is wrong.

[CretanBull]

^^ If it were any other player in MLS everyone would be saying how great it was for MLS to have players training overseas with a top club. Didn't Wynne and Edu train with Aston or somebody in the EPL last off season?? That was great news.

This isn't about training...Beckham is going to play for (not train with) AC Milian - he'll be playing in Serie A and UEFA Cup games as a member of their team. No one would be against a MLS player going to work out with and keep fitness with a European club - it happens all the time.



The issue here is that people think Beckham won't come back. If not, that's fine but at least it gives some legitimacy to MLS when one of its own (even if its only the highest profile/paid player) can still compete at the highest levels.

No, the issue is the negative preception of the MLS that this re-enforces. Beckham now plays for AC Milan the "real club", and in his off-season he takes it easy and collects a giant pay-check in the MLS. That's how the world will view this move. That's how other players will view the move...guys like Henry will think "Wait, I can sign a $250 million contract with Seatle and still play for Barca? Sign me up!". It's not a preception that the league should allow to exist.

[Bluenose13]

No, the issue is the negative preception of the MLS that this re-enforces. Beckham now plays for AC Milan the "real club", and in his off-season he takes it easy and collects a giant pay-check in the MLS. That's how the world will view this move. That's how other players will view the move...guys like Henry will think "Wait, I can sign a $250 million contract with Seatle and still play for Barca? Sign me up!". It's not a preception that the league should allow to exist.Do you really think that most players will want to play 12 months of the year? You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions here, I think players will look at it for what it is, Beckham wants to play for England so Beckham is staying match fit while his league is over.

Beckham's situation is hardly going to be the norm, really how many players that can still play for there European based national team are going to play in the MLS.

If they play for smaller nations like Robbo for Wales it becomes a non issue as he was still getting picked during our off-season, Beckham's situation is a one off.

Although if Henry wanted to sign for TFC under the condition we would let him play for Barcelona during the off-season so he could keep his place on the French national team would you still sign him?.......I would.

[Roogsy]

Do you really think that most players will want to play 12 months of the year? You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions here, I think players will look at it for what it is, Beckham wants to play for England so Beckham is staying match fit while his league is over.

Beckham's situation is hardly going to be the norm, really how many players that can still play for there European based national team are going to play in the MLS.

If they play for smaller nations like Robbo for Wales it becomes a non issue as he was still getting picked during our off-season, Beckham's situation is a one off.

Although if Henry wanted to sign for TFC under the condition we would let him play for Barcelona during the off-season so he could keep his place on the French national team would you still sign him?.......I would.

Of course we would...but it actually highlights CB's point moreso. We'd be so desperate to have a star on our team, we'd put up with something that European teams wouldn't even consider. It really is a sign of desperation.

[Shaughno]

Do you really think that most players will want to play 12 months of the year? You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions here, I think players will look at it for what it is, Beckham wants to play for England so Beckham is staying match fit while his league is over.

Beckham's situation is hardly going to be the norm, really how many players that can still play for there European based national team are going to play in the MLS.

If they play for smaller nations like Robbo for Wales it becomes a non issue as he was still getting picked during our off-season, Beckham's situation is a one off.

Although if Henry wanted to sign for TFC under the condition we would let him play for Barcelona during the off-season so he could keep his place on the French national team would you still sign him?.......I would.


Pretty much. Another thing, staying fit through training with a team is one thing, but actually playing for the team with actual logged minutes means he's not only physically fit, but he's match fit. Ask any player and they will tell you how much of a difference there is between the two.

[Shaughno]

Of course we would...but it actually highlights CB's point moreso. We'd be so desperate to have a star on our team, we'd put up with something that European teams wouldn't even consider. It really is a sign of desperation.

Why is it desperation? Why isn't it just, "having the chance" for a world class player to come play for your club? That's how it is everywhere else in the world. Who's to say other clubs like, let's say from the J-League, wouldn't accept a deal in the same circumstances? I'm pretty sure even Urawa Reds would take Henry even if it meant him going on loan in the offseason.

[Bluenose13]

Of course we would...but it actually highlights CB's point moreso. We'd be so desperate to have a star on our team, we'd put up with something that European teams wouldn't even consider. It really is a sign of desperation.European teams wouldn't consider playing on natural turf with football line across it either, it is what it is for the time being. I guess the argument here is, what is better, giving concessions to star players to grow exposure in the league & increase the standard or not giving any concessions because European teams would never do it.

[OneLoveOneEric]

^^^exactly. There seems to be a wide gulf between what some people hope MLS is and what it actually is. And it's way too early to try to bridge that gap with actions.

[Roogsy]

Exactly...concessions. Whether it be for the purposes of growing the league, or whatever else reason, star players like Becks know they have all the power and that is exactly what highlights the shortcomings of the league. That we have to accept it I agree. That we have to create some sort of false sense of positivity about it? Um...not so much.

[CretanBull]

Exactly...concessions. Whether it be for the purposes of growing the league, or whatever else reason, star players like Becks know they have all the power and that is exactly what highlights the shortcomings of the league. That we have to accept it I agree. That we have to create some sort of false sense of positivity about it? Um...not so much.

That sums up my feelings better than I could have said myself...

[Roogsy]

Beer time!
:cheers:

[OneLoveOneEric]

Look... not to get side tracked, but the league is what it is. It's a decent domestic league that fans can enjoy watching. Almost every country has one. I don't think the fans of the Swedish league (sorry... still have Helsingborgs on my mind!) worry about why Thierry Henry won't come to play in Stockholm. They have domestic players that play there. And the best ones, the ones that only come every generation or two, like Larrson And Ibrahimovic, go and play elsewhere. That's what we have. I don't see that changing. Think of Beckham as some weird anomaly, and hopefully not a failed experiment. It's trendy right now to talk about "maybe" playing in the USA "at some point", but I don't think it's any more than that. I wouldn't get too excited about comments players make to foreign reporters. Goals of being some Mecca for foreign talent are far-fetched, IMO.

[Bluenose13]

Exactly...concessions. Whether it be for the purposes of growing the league, or whatever else reason, star players like Becks know they have all the power and that is exactly what highlights the shortcomings of the league. That we have to accept it I agree. That we have to create some sort of false sense of positivity about it? Um...not so much.I think long time followers of this league are probably amazed at how far it has come that we are now discussing loaning a player to AC Milan, not too long ago this would have been laughed at.

It also shows how much the league has grown in standard of play & reputation that players like Henry are even considering the MLS.

Let it grow & lets get the best players from around the world even if we have to give some concessions.

Look at it this way, would the swedish elite league make concessions to Sidney Crosby just to get him there? They are not the NHL & we are not the EPL.

[Roogsy]

Yes and no. At the end of the day though, Sweden does not have a) the marketing power of the US and b) the attendance figures of MLS. While the MLS is no EPL, Liga or any other top tier European league...it's financial power isn't exactly as Mickey Mouse as the league allows itself to act. And it's definitely more influential than Sweden.

[OneLoveOneEric]

^^^the financial power you speak of doesn't come in to play, though, because the league restricts its own ability to do so.

[Technorgasm]

Just saw this on the tele.

Not surprised, will have more to say tomorrow Im sure.

[Roogsy]

Agreed. And with good reason. Nobody wants another NASL debacle.

[jabbronies]

The MLS is a revolving door league. Players come in on the tail end of their career (blanco) so that they can regain past glory status or on the downslide when no other team wants them (Rohan Rickets), then they leave either for retirement or for greener pastures if the chance presents itself.

Beckham came over here prematurly. He thought his career was over due to the circumstances over in Madrid, but now he realizes that wasn't the case. he just needed to focus and regain that confidence he had lost.

I'm one of those people who feel sorry for him being in MLS. He is better than MLS. Players of his calibre don't come over here to retire, they finish out their career in the big leagues. I hope this does pan out to something bigger for him. This Beckham circus has gone on for too long. He plays on one of the worst teams in the league in front of a bunch of a bunch of people who could give two shits about the game that he puts everything he's got into.

[Shakes McQueen]

How about this - if a Coca-Cola Championship team had the ability to have Beckham play for them, but he went to AC Milan during their offseason (lets assume hypothetically that the Championship operated on our schedule) as part of the deal - would they do it? You bet your balls they would.

This makes us no more pathetic than any other lower league. Our weird scheduling just happens to put us in a position where we are able to accommodate requests like this.

Is this a "great" thing? Overall, probably not. But there are upsides to it. For starters, the commotion of him coming to Serie A might generate some press for MLS over there.

Eventually MLS will hit a point where we call the shots, and not our poster-boy players, but we don't have that luxury in a young league, trying to grow in largely non-football country.

- Scott

[NateDoGG]

good for beckham, we need him for england, i really thought he was just gonna go back to training with arsenal, but now that hes actually gonna play thats even better, get to see him with the allstar squad of ac milano!!

[Dirk Diggler]

Wow ... some people just like to bitch all the time...off-season or in .... seriously, how does this deal make MLS less respectable? If anything, it makes Serie A look desperate because the biggest team in the league is willing to sign a dude who will be just one phone call away from going back to the team that owns his contract. People need to grow the fuck up. This makes business sense for all the parties involved ... MLS gets money from this while still having him in game shape .... Beckham gets to fight for a spot on the national team ... AC Milan gets to jump on the Beckhamania and have their merchandise fly off the shelves all across the globe ....

[Roogsy]

How does having an opinion make it immature? Someone has an opposing point of view and they need to not just grow up but grow the FUCK up? :rolleyes:

If you fail to see the big picture, it doesn't mean other people are missing it.

[NateDoGG]

btw i dunno why u guys think this makes the mls look like a joke?
if anything other players in europe will see this and think to themselves "if i can play in the mls, and still keep my match fitness up in the offseason for my country, thats huge and i will consider the mls now"
i mean am i right or am i right

[CretanBull]

^because it effectively makes the MLS a place for top players to go in their off season, a league where they can collect a pay check and take it easy in...while they play their "real" football in Europe on "loan".

[Shakes McQueen]

^because it effectively makes the MLS a place for top players to go in their off season, a league where they can collect a pay check and take it easy in...while they play their "real" football in Europe on "loan".

Beckham isn't going for the full Serie A season, which actually makes AC Milan the place "where top players go in the off-season", haha.

Now, if he went for the full AC Milan season, and said to L.A. "I will come back after the season is over", you would have a point.

I stand by what I said earlier: If any of the lower English leagues were on our schedule, and they were offered Beckham with the same caveat - they would take him in a heart beat.

- Scott

[CretanBull]

You're talking about reality, I'm talking about perception...if you play for AC Milan and The LA Galaxy, the entire world will view AC Milan as your real team and the Galaxy as the other thing that you do. As for the arguements about this being good for the MLS etc. How much has the Egyptian league gained in terms of interest with Zaki playing in Wigan? None? The effect on the MLS from Beckham playing in Milan will be even less because Beckham is already an established players with Man U and Real Madrid on his resume..he's not a product of our league, I can't see anyone seeing Beckham play and then wonder to themselves what the quality of play is like in the MLS. This does nothing for our league, other than establish it as a summer league where top players can go to grab a pay check and still play for a 'real' team.



I stand by what I said earlier: If any of the lower English leagues were on our schedule, and they were offered Beckham with the same caveat - they would take him in a heart beat.

The point is that they wouldn't be. No other major team, in a major league, would loan out it's top player to another league...leagues like the NHL, NBA, MLB etc. all protect the value of thier assets. The fact that the MLS is willing to go along with his is an admission that it's not a top league. That's been my point from the begining.

This is all dead horse territory for me now...I think it's a horrible move from a business/credibility perspective. Others don't. We can leave it at that.

[Red CB Toronto]

I would think most players would not want to play year round football, when you look back at TFC's inaugural season they issue of year round football came to the forefront as they Reds had a few players like Robinson and Dichio who joined the club having literally played in England, fatigue become an issue, this will almost always be an issue when you first sign a player from Europe when you consider when the MLS season starts but I do not see it happening on a regular basis where a player goes all year, every year, the body does need a rest.

This is only really an issue because of who is at the forefront of this story, as some of you said, I think the football world underestimated what Becks had left in the tank and he wants to show us all what he can still do and no offence to the MLS, but what better place to to do it with than with a world super power like AC Milan.

[TFC_Toon]

Talk here of being for a 3 month loan and having him back with LA by the end of March. Also notable Bruce Arena appears not to have had any clue this was in the works until yesterday, he himself is scratching his head by the sounds of it according to his quote below.

"The first I heard about it was today (Wednesday)... but I would think [given] the position the Galaxy is in and [the fact that] we're rebuilding our team and trying to have a successful year, it would seem very odd to me if we were loaning out our top players at the start of the season.
"It would seem pretty odd to me to operate that way.''

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=584729&sec=europe&cc=5901

[Shakes McQueen]

You're talking about reality, I'm talking about perception...if you play for AC Milan and The LA Galaxy, the entire world will view AC Milan as your real team and the Galaxy as the other thing that you do. As for the arguements about this being good for the MLS etc. How much has the Egyptian league gained in terms of interest with Zaki playing in Wigan? None? The effect on the MLS from Beckham playing in Milan will be even less because Beckham is already an established players with Man U and Real Madrid on his resume..he's not a product of our league, I can't see anyone seeing Beckham play and then wonder to themselves what the quality of play is like in the MLS. This does nothing for our league, other than establish it as a summer league where top players can go to grab a pay check and still play for a 'real' team.


The point is that they wouldn't be. No other major team, in a major league, would loan out it's top player to another league...leagues like the NHL, NBA, MLB etc. all protect the value of thier assets. The fact that the MLS is willing to go along with his is an admission that it's not a top league. That's been my point from the begining.

This is all dead horse territory for me now...I think it's a horrible move from a business/credibility perspective. Others don't. We can leave it at that.

I disagree with everything you just said, and you're absolutely retarded because of it! :D

- Scott

[ensco]

You're talking about reality, I'm talking about perception...if you play for AC Milan and The LA Galaxy, the entire world will view AC Milan as your real team and the Galaxy as the other thing that you do. As for the arguements about this being good for the MLS etc. How much has the Egyptian league gained in terms of interest with Zaki playing in Wigan? None? The effect on the MLS from Beckham playing in Milan will be even less because Beckham is already an established players with Man U and Real Madrid on his resume..he's not a product of our league, I can't see anyone seeing Beckham play and then wonder to themselves what the quality of play is like in the MLS. This does nothing for our league, other than establish it as a summer league where top players can go to grab a pay check and still play for a 'real' team.


The point is that they wouldn't be. No other major team, in a major league, would loan out it's top player to another league...leagues like the NHL, NBA, MLB etc. all protect the value of thier assets. The fact that the MLS is willing to go along with his is an admission that it's not a top league. That's been my point from the begining.

This is all dead horse territory for me now...I think it's a horrible move from a business/credibility perspective. Others don't. We can leave it at that.

This is shot through with nonsense.

1) Everybody, and I mean everybody, understands where the Galaxy and MLS rank relative to AC Milan. With or without Beckham.

2) This business about "protecting the value of their assets"....you are seriously just repeating yourself without acknowledging some pretty obvious things. If the Galaxy don't allow him to do this, he leaves. How does Beckham's "asset value" to MLS and the Galaxy look then?

[Shaughno]

The point is that they wouldn't be. No other major team, in a major league, would loan out it's top player to another league...leagues like the NHL, NBA, MLB etc. all protect the value of thier assets. The fact that the MLS is willing to go along with his is an admission that it's not a top league. That's been my point from the begining.



But... aren't we working in reality? ;)

Despite the name Major League Soccer, it's hardly a 'major' league in the football world. We gave you an example of a team loaning their top player (Helsingborg with Larsson) during their offseason. Nobody, I mean no educated football fan either here or in Europe, thinks that the MLS is a top league so why draw the comparison? I don't think anyone here is saying the MLS is a top league are they? As much as Garber spews shit, he knows full well the MLS is not a TOP league and it's still far from it. No doubt it's a goal, the main goal even, but having a goal does not make it a reality.

If the one article posted is true and Cappello orchestrated it, says a lot in my eyes. Again look at it from a players/coach perspective. Training and playing competitively are VERY different things altogether. Capello wants his players to be in the best match condition he can get, which obviously meant pulling strings for him. I guarantee if Beckham were to just 'train' with someone for 3 weeks again, he wouldn't get picked for England.

So the question is, since the MLS is hogtied in the situation, do you let him go and possibly come back injured or do you try to force him to stay and possibly have him use his 'opt out' clause and fuck off from the league altogether. I mean it's obvious he's still commanding attention from the top leagues so you can't really try and block any move he tries to make without putting the whole deal on the chopping blocks.

[CretanBull]

This is shot through with nonsense.
1) Everybody, and I mean everybody, understands where the Galaxy and MLS rank relative to AC Milan. With or without Beckham.


That's my point, it's other people who are suggesting otherwise.



2) This business about "protecting the value of their assets"....you are seriously just repeating yourself without acknowledging some pretty obvious things. If the Galaxy don't allow him to do this, he leaves. How does Beckham's "asset value" to MLS and the Galaxy look then?

If he leaves then it on him. If we hold his hand and walk him out the door, it's on us. One hurts Beckham's reputation, the other establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope of establishing itself as a major league.

No other major league in the entire world would allow it's star players to play in another league, the second we allow our stars to play in other leagues we're signalling to the world that we aren't a major league. End of story.

:deadhorse:

[Shaughno]

No other major league in the entire world would allow it's star players to play in another league, the second we allow our stars to play in other leagues we're signalling to the world that we aren't a major league. End of story.




Helsingborg's Larsson to Manchester United on loan for 3 months in the offseason.

:deadhorse:

[Canadian Blue]

I am not 100% sure but don't some NBA player's play in Europe during the off season?

[Shaughno]

I am not 100% sure but don't some NBA player's play in Europe during the off season?

I do believe so. Any many European hockey players have been known to 'train' and/or 'play' with hometown team/leagues in the offseason as well.

[Oldtimer]

Looks like LA's coach had no part in the wheeling-dealing:


The LA Galaxy manager Bruce Arena has questioned the benefits to his team of loaning David Beckham (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-beckham) to Milan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/acmilan) for three months. Arena described the proposed deal as "odd" and suggested that it may be nothing more than a a rumour, despited the MLS confirming yesterday that talks between Milan and Galaxy had already taken place.http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/23/bruce-arena-beckham-milan

Must be "great" to be the coach of a team and not have any idea what's going on with your own players.


Could he be going permanently after a Milan trial?:


Is American Dream over for Beckham?

His bid to sell soccer to the US has failed dismally. So now Milan beckons – and the boutique owners can't wait. By Guy Adams
Thursday, 23 October 2008


When David Beckham announced he was quitting the Galácticos of Real Madrid to sign for the provincial Los Angeles Galaxy team, the transfer was lambasted – despite the player's protestations – as a move from the football pitch to the showbusiness premier league. He and Victoria would mix with the likes of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, Will Smith, Eva Longoria and Governor Schwarzenegger. It seemed to be the ultimate realisation of celebrity dreams. The couple's children were looking forward to playing on Malibu beach, Mrs Beckham told this newspaper at the time.
The only problem has been the football. The standards in Major League Soccer are, not to put too fine a point on it, below those enjoyed in Europe. Since arriving in July 2007, Beckham's on-field performances have failed to set alight his teammates. With one game remaining, Galaxy is the second-worst team in its league, and has won just two of its 15 games since July. He remains an important fringe player for England but often looks tired after long transatlantic flights.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/is-american-dream-over-for-beckham-969781.html

[CretanBull]

But... aren't we working in reality? ;)

Despite the name Major League Soccer, it's hardly a 'major' league in the football world. We gave you an example of a team loaning their top player (Helsingborg with Larsson) during their offseason. Nobody, I mean no educated football fan either here or in Europe, thinks that the MLS is a top league so why draw the comparison? I don't think anyone here is saying the MLS is a top league are they? As much as Garber spews shit, he knows full well the MLS is not a TOP league and it's still far from it. No doubt it's a goal, the main goal even, but having a goal does not make it a reality.


I don't see how you can think that a league that talks out of both sides of its mouth ends up with a damaged credibility. The league should at least try to live up to the "shit" Garber "spews" if it wants to be taken seriously. My point, from the very begining, is that this move makes this league a joke - it's put on display the difference between how the league wants to market itself (as a major league) and how it actually opperates (a secondary league). Your example of Helsingborg and Larsen makes my point, it doesn't contradict it. Helsingborg is not a major team, it is not in a major league and it's their behaviour that we're copying. No major team in any major league would do this. While under contract with Man U, Rooney will only play for them. While under contract with with Barca, Messi will only play for them. The fact that we're following Helsingborg's lead and not Manhester or Barcalona's speaks volume about our league. It's as if the league has called it's own bluff on the world stage. That's the sole point that I've been making going back to my very first post in this thread. There's nothing left to argue about on this point...




If the one article posted is true and Cappello orchestrated it, says a lot in my eyes. Again look at it from a players/coach perspective. Training and playing competitively are VERY different things altogether. Capello wants his players to be in the best match condition he can get, which obviously meant pulling strings for him. I guarantee if Beckham were to just 'train' with someone for 3 weeks again, he wouldn't get picked for England.


I've not said a word about any of this, I've only commented about how this reflects on the perception of the MLS.



So the question is, since the MLS is hogtied in the situation, do you let him go and possibly come back injured or do you try to force him to stay and possibly have him use his 'opt out' clause and fuck off from the league altogether. I mean it's obvious he's still commanding attention from the top leagues so you can't really try and block any move he tries to make without putting the whole deal on the chopping blocks.

If he leaves then it on him. If we hold his hand and walk him out the door, it's on us. One hurts Beckham's reputation, the other establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope of establishing itself as a major league.

[CretanBull]

But... aren't we working in reality? ;)

Despite the name Major League Soccer, it's hardly a 'major' league in the football world. We gave you an example of a team loaning their top player (Helsingborg with Larsson) during their offseason. Nobody, I mean no educated football fan either here or in Europe, thinks that the MLS is a top league so why draw the comparison? I don't think anyone here is saying the MLS is a top league are they? As much as Garber spews shit, he knows full well the MLS is not a TOP league and it's still far from it. No doubt it's a goal, the main goal even, but having a goal does not make it a reality.


I don't see how you can think that a league that talks out of both sides of its mouth ends up with a damaged credibility. The league should at least try to live up to the "shit" Garber "spews" if it wants to be taken seriously. My point, from the very begining, is that this move makes this league a joke - it's put on display the difference between how the league wants to market itself (as a major league) and how it actually opperates (a secondary league). Your example of Helsingborg and Larsen makes my point, it doesn't contradict it. Helsingborg is not a major team, it is not in a major league and it's their behaviour that we're copying. No major team in any major league would do this. While under contract with Man U, Rooney will only play for them. While under contract with with Barca, Messi will only play for them. The fact that we're following Helsingborg's lead and not Manhester or Barcalona's speaks volume about our league. It's as if the league has called it's own bluff on the world stage. That's the sole point that I've been making going back to my very first post in this thread. There's nothing left to argue about on this point...




If the one article posted is true and Cappello orchestrated it, says a lot in my eyes. Again look at it from a players/coach perspective. Training and playing competitively are VERY different things altogether. Capello wants his players to be in the best match condition he can get, which obviously meant pulling strings for him. I guarantee if Beckham were to just 'train' with someone for 3 weeks again, he wouldn't get picked for England.


I've not said a word about any of this, I've only commented about how this reflects on the perception of the MLS.



So the question is, since the MLS is hogtied in the situation, do you let him go and possibly come back injured or do you try to force him to stay and possibly have him use his 'opt out' clause and fuck off from the league altogether. I mean it's obvious he's still commanding attention from the top leagues so you can't really try and block any move he tries to make without putting the whole deal on the chopping blocks.

If he leaves then it on him. If we hold his hand and walk him out the door, it's on us. One hurts Beckham's reputation, the other establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope of establishing itself as a major league.

[CretanBull]

Helsingborg's Larsson to Manchester United on loan for 3 months in the offseason.


So, in your estimation Helsingborg is a major team and the Allsvenskan is a major league? If so, you're wrong. If not, you're making my point for me.

[Shaughno]

IMO, signing Beckham for $50M ($250M with sponsors), solely for marketing purposes was what made the league look like a joke in this situation. Everything after that, I just don't see how it can be made worse.

If he leaves, people forget he was ever in LA. If he stays, he's renewed his status as a top player in the world and cements the fact that he can still play with the big boys, while bringing much needed exposure for MLS into Europe. All this press, is what the MLS wants. They know they are hogtied, they want the best they can get out of the situation.

I don't see how a flatout statement like that, "establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope", can be made when it's obvious they got the result out of the whole Beckham thing that they wanted? I mean, Henry, Ljungberg, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Ronaldo (fat toad) have all made statements saying they would play in the US. You honestly believe they would have if Beckham didn't come here? The way to establishing the league as a 'major league', is a loooooong road. MLS is not even 15 years old, and it won't be a contender overnight. They need major players to come over and help elevate the status and skill level of the game. Does it not make sense that if you have top players here, the domestic players will have to up their game to compete, which in turn raises their skill level? I would put money that regardless of the outcome of this deal, it won't adversely affect the progress of this league. Beckham made his mark and now it's time's turn to let things happen and the league will progress.

[CretanBull]

I am not 100% sure but don't some NBA player's play in Europe during the off season?

No, not if they are under contract to a NBA team.


I do believe so. Any many European hockey players have been known to 'train' and/or 'play' with hometown team/leagues in the offseason as well.

Train? Yes, but they don't play in league games.

[Shaughno]

So, in your estimation Helsingborg is a major team and the Allsvenskan is a major league? If so, you're wrong. If not, you're making my point for me.

No, they are on par with the MLS as I've been saying all along which is why it's a valid comparison. Both are trying to expand the profile of their leagues, one through media exposure, one through Champions League play.

[Shaughno]

:lol:



Portsmouth manager Harry Redknapp has said he is considering a last- minute swoop for England midfielder David Beckham who is set to move to AC Milan on loan from LA Galaxy. (The Sun)

[ACSertL]

^ This thing just keeps on getting better and better.

[CretanBull]

No, they are on par with the MLS as I've been saying all along which is why it's a valid comparison. Both are trying to expand the profile of their leagues, one through media exposure, one through Champions League play.

My point, from the very begining, is that this move makes this league a joke - it's put on display the difference between how the league wants to market itself (as a major league) and how it actually opperates (a secondary league). Your example of Helsingborg and Larsen makes my point, it doesn't contradict it. Helsingborg is not a major team, it is not in a major league and it's their behaviour that we're copying. No major team in any major league would do this. While under contract with Man U, Rooney will only play for them. While under contract with with Barca, Messi will only play for them. The fact that we're following Helsingborg's lead and not Manhester or Barcalona's speaks volume about our league. It's as if the league has called it's own bluff on the world stage. That's the sole point that I've been making going back to my very first post in this thread. There's nothing left to argue about on this point...

[Shaughno]

There is still a difference. United/Barca are established teams in established leagues. They don't have to prove to anyone that they are a major player in the game. MLS is not a major player, how can you compare the two? One is striving to be something, the other already is something.

The league is secondary on the world stage, everyone knows that. They are trying to change that and IMO they've already opened the right doors with Beckham which has led some major players to be signed/linked with the MLS. That's a step in the right direction. Helsingborg can't just up and sign someone like Beckham, that's where the MLS is using it's advantages to their fullest.

[CretanBull]

You're focussed on how things actually are. My comments are about how the league is trying to market and represent itself (major league) vs. how they act (secondary league). If you want to be taken seriously as a major league, you should emulate the behaviour of other major leagues. When you try to brand yourself as major league, but emulate the behaviour of secondary leagues you harm your credibility. I don't see how you can argue that your credibility doesn't take a hit when your words and actions are contradictory.

[Valentine]

No NBA team is going to ever allow an European athlete which they have invested in the 10's of millions of dollars in play with another team! If that athlete was to ever get hurt - then who would be responsible for the remainder of the contract. The only time a player has ever been able to go across and PLAY with a European team is when they go across as a free agent with the intent to sign! And that does work both ways as some of their players come here to try out and sign. For example Anthony Parker played for Tel Aviv Maccabi B.C. and was noticed by the Raptors when he played an exhibition game here October 2005. And the European Leagues schedule is basically the same time as the American. So not much chance of a player playing over there in the off season. Also the NBA runs a pre-development league in Las Vegas in the summer. The league is mainly for rookies and players to keep in shape or get in shape after an injury. And lastly if the NBA is going to send or allow a player under contract to play anywhere it is the NBDL. They are governed by the same insurance policy there. Kobe Bryant has stated in the past that he wants to play for Olimpia Milano (now known as Armani Jeans Milano), but you will never hear of the Lakers even letting him even go on the floor with them while he is under contract!

As for hockey players playing for another team in the off season - NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! They may skate, but it has to be a non-contact scrimmage. But no contact and definitely no games and it is all monitored by their club. When a player leaves for the summer they are given a special contract with requirements they must follow or risk being fined or loosing their contracts. These requirements include what activities that they may not participate in. An example of these special requirements is that if a player has had knee problems in the past - they might not be allowed to go participate in motorized water sports. If you live in place where professionals come from and call home - most of them organize pick up games (non-contact, and basically fun shinny) where you they skate and get ready for the upcoming season. In Mississauga it is at the Hershey Centre. And it includes many well known players, recent draft picks and players trying to make it back into the NHL. The players agents organize it. And a lot of the time a top European players would show up.

I do agree with those that think that Beckham leaving does undermine the MLS in the international community. It makes what the MLS is becoming not what it was intended to be for some players - a stepping stone to 'greener' pastures. In the Beckham case I am also curious what will happen and who will pay out the hefty contract if an injury does occur?

[Roogsy]

^ All this back and forth and it can be easily answered in one question that I posed yesterday.

Name me one big team that loans out not only a star, but it's biggest star in the off-season.

If you can't name one, then the Galaxy are behaving like a minnow. That is all the reality we are asking you to acknowledge. Beyond that, if you think it's a good thing, that is where people will have to agree to disagree.

I look forward to hearing how C. Ronaldo will be playing in Sweden during the off-season or how Rooney will be playing in MLS in the summer of '09. I'm excited!

[Shaughno]

^ All this back and forth and it can be easily answered in one question that I posed yesterday.

Name me one big team that loans out not only a star, but it's biggest star in the off-season.

If you can't name one, then the Galaxy are behaving like a minnow. That is all the reality we are asking you to acknowledge. Beyond that, if you think it's a good thing, that is where people will have to agree to disagree.

I look forward to hearing how C. Ronaldo will be playing in Sweden during the off-season or how Rooney will be playing in MLS in the summer of '09. I'm excited!


But it's flawed logic. Different situations altogether. Galaxy and the MLS want to be a big team/league, and are trying to find ways to achieve that goal. Signing Beckham was the first stepping stone on the way. You can't act like a big league or team if your circumstances don't permit it.

I'm not talking about whether I like the decision or not, I'm talking just about this situation and the league in general.

Rooney and Ronaldo didn't sign for United with the intention of 'heightening the presence of the game", where Beckham did. He was signed and came here for one reason, supposedly anyway, to be a marketing ploy. It's worked, job complete. Am I wrong?

Many times in this thread, if you had bothered to read, I have stated and agreed that the Galaxy are a second tier team in a second tier league. That's a fact, you can't fudge that. What I am arguing is that this move doesn't hurt the credibility anymore than the circus of when they signed Beckham in the first place. This is a chance for him to prove he could play for top teams in top leagues, but instead is using AC Milan to cement his place in the England squad by staying match fit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Many people outside of North America, fuck even here, look down upon this league as shit, garbage, Americanized and bastardized football. I think it would take some serious errors to make thier view of the MLS any worse. If Beckham wins something with Milan, or even just proves with his play that he's still 'got it', then the MLS will have made the press in Europe multiple times simply because of Beckham's name. That's what the MLS wants out of Beckham, brand recognition. The more his name is out there, the more people hear about the MLS. End of story.

It's not all doom and gloom as some seem to think here.

What would you say if because of this loan, Gattuso or Seedorf comes over and ends up playing for Toronto, or LA, or anyone for that matter? I'd say MLS's marketing tool worked... again, or still. However you want to put it.

[trane]

Trane, you were right! It was Capeelo who orchestrated the move:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/23/serieafootball-acmilan


Nice find.


On the subject/side note of Sweden, I have family there, and have been many times, they have a similar problem as the MLS, it is not just their top tallent that goes abroad, EPL and Serie A mainly, but most of their better players play in Denmark and Norway, as they pay much better. This keeps the local league back. That is why the attendance figures are low as they are, Roogsy. Football is the number one sport there, much bigger then hockey, but because of the drain on tallent they do not do nearly as well as they could. Ibrahimavic, is a god their, and you will see many follow an EPL team or Serie A team as closley as their local team. I started watching EPL on a trip to Sweden in the early 90's, they were showing so much of it there.

[Chevy]

That's my point, it's other people who are suggesting otherwise.



If he leaves then it on him. If we hold his hand and walk him out the door, it's on us. One hurts Beckham's reputation, the other establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope of establishing itself as a major league.

No other major league in the entire world would allow it's star players to play in another league, the second we allow our stars to play in other leagues we're signalling to the world that we aren't a major league. End of story.

:deadhorse:




You reference 'major' league players not being loaned out - and that makes perfect sense as those players are not going to get any better playing in inferior leagues. Unfortunately MLS is NOT a top league (probably top 30 world wide at best) and need to make concessions like this in order to improve its overall quality.

To play devil's advocate here - one could say that if a world-class player like Beckam can't help his shit MLS team but can help AC Milan - In some wierd way that may actually add some credibility to the talent level in MLS.

[trane]

Shags, you should be our GM that is a great idea, if we sing Gattuso and Seedorf, we will resolve both our offensive and defensive issue, it would be gold. You are a genious.;):)

[Shaughno]

I know. :D

[trane]

Bringing Beckham over was only about preception, it does little to raise the general level of play in the league. Hence his frustration in LA.

However, if things like this allow for stronger ties with top clubs it would help this league. Bringing older strat players can only help so much, what would realy help is if we could get younger players on loan here. Imagine if we had a good relatioship with Everton, New CAstele . Celtic and Rangers, we could get some of their youngers players on loan here. That would improve our overal play. Or LA and Montreal, when they get in, having contacts with Milan/Inter/Roma/Juve, if this became a league trend that would help grow the sport. The problem with what LA is doing it is trying to be Man U, Real, and AC Milan, when it is not even Wigan or Chievo. The growth has to be slow and steady at it has to be real on the pitch, for long term strengh.

[Valentine]

Bringing Beckham over was only about preception, it does little to raise the general level of play in the league. Hence his frustration in LA.

However, if things like this allow for stronger ties with top clubs it would help this league. Bringing older strat players can only help so much, what would realy help is if we could get younger players on loan here. Imagine if we had a good relatioship with Everton, New CAstele . Celtic and Rangers, we could get some of their youngers players on loan here. That would improve our overal play. Or LA and Montreal, when they get in, having contacts with Milan/Inter/Roma/Juve, if this became a league trend that would help grow the sport. The problem with what LA is doing it is trying to be Man U, Real, and AC Milan, when it is not even Wigan or Chievo. The growth has to be slow and steady at it has to be real on the pitch, for long term strengh.

So in essence the MLS will become the development league for European clubs? Is that what you are promoting the MLS should become?

[Shaughno]

I don't think it needs to become a development league. I think there are two major problems with linking up with Prem/Liga/etc clubs. One being that clubs start shipping players over who aren't the young talents we want, becuse those true talents usually don't stray too far from the first team so they can gain valuable experience. Second being that it also opens a bigger window for the talent that is here in the MLS to leave. Something they are actively working against.

Though I though Colorado was already linked with Arsenal? RSL with Real? Someone with like Everton or something?

[trane]

Valentine.

Wake up and smell the coffee, we need to develp footy and not pretend to be on par with teh big leagues when our product is inferior. I belive in brading but at the end of the day, if our product is shit peopel may buy it once, but they will not be our long terms costumers. More tallent in the leageu, better coaches ect. Means a better game one start player among shite, as LA in Beckham still result in mostly shite.

I love TFC, but it is not AC Milan or even Everton on the field.

Shugs, your concerns are legitimate.

[ACSertL]

Bringing Beckham over was only about preception, it does little to raise the general level of play in the league. Hence his frustration in LA.

However, if things like this allow for stronger ties with top clubs it would help this league. Bringing older strat players can only help so much, what would realy help is if we could get younger players on loan here. Imagine if we had a good relatioship with Everton, New CAstele . Celtic and Rangers, we could get some of their youngers players on loan here. That would improve our overal play. Or LA and Montreal, when they get in, having contacts with Milan/Inter/Roma/Juve, if this became a league trend that would help grow the sport. The problem with what LA is doing it is trying to be Man U, Real, and AC Milan, when it is not even Wigan or Chievo. The growth has to be slow and steady at it has to be real on the pitch, for long term strengh.

I'm not sure I'd like MLS to be a league where teams send over young players just to gain experience. But I guess if you really think about it all of the best young players in this league end up shipping off over to bigger clubs in more prestigous leagues anyways. Unless what you're getting at Trane is a logical step in the development of MLS...moving from the aging stars to the younger potential stars, to our own talent?

I would be more in favour of having partnerships with big clubs if it meant an exchange of ideas, or coaches...something of that nature that helps develop our own talent and grow our own domestic North American league instead of having to borrow players from others. If David Beckham playing in Milan on loan from the LA Galaxy can in some way help that...I can't see the harm (provided he stays healthy, and decides to come back).

[Roogsy]

Nice find.


On the subject/side note of Sweden, I have family there, and have been many times, they have a similar problem as the MLS, it is not just their top tallent that goes abroad, EPL and Serie A mainly, but most of their better players play in Denmark and Norway, as they pay much better. This keeps the local league back. That is why the attendance figures are low as they are, Roogsy. Football is the number one sport there, much bigger then hockey, but because of the drain on tallent they do not do nearly as well as they could. Ibrahimavic, is a god their, and you will see many follow an EPL team or Serie A team as closley as their local team. I started watching EPL on a trip to Sweden in the early 90's, they were showing so much of it there.

I understand, but if you will allow me the comparison, football is also the biggest sport in Ecuador. I would say, the ONLY sport.

And we wouldn't compare the marketing influence of Ecuador to MLS would we? That is all I am talking about. We are talking about monetary power. Sweden's league is about as big as it's going to get. MLS is just starting out.

Now either MLS is or isn't a big time league. Obviously right now, it is not. But if it does want to be, this sort of thing eventually has to end. Should it end now? Absolutely not. MLS is at the mercy of the whims of these players because MLS isn't big enough. But one day I hope the league competes with the real big leagues, and at that point, this sort of nonsense should be unheard of.

[trane]

^
AC Sertal

You are getting to what I would not mind seeing , we need closer ties with the Football world, we are too isolated, our coaching and training needs systemic upgrades. It seems to be happening with TFC, and Montreal seem to have it better developed, but it needs to improve across the league.

[ACSertL]

Though I though Colorado was already linked with Arsenal? RSL with Real? Someone with like Everton or something?

Shaughno...Everton has a partnership with the Ontario Soccer Association.

http://www.evertonfc.com/club/ontario-soccer-association.html

I am not 100% if it is still active, but I do remember seeing an Everton FC tent in the parking lots at BMO last season.

[Pachuco]

Beckham isn't going for the full Serie A season, which actually makes AC Milan the place "where top players go in the off-season", haha.

Now, if he went for the full AC Milan season, and said to L.A. "I will come back after the season is over", you would have a point.

I stand by what I said earlier: If any of the lower English leagues were on our schedule, and they were offered Beckham with the same caveat - they would take him in a heart beat.

- Scott

You keep saying that. But MLS was not offered Beckham with that caveat. That was not part of the deal when Beckham came. MLS has the right to call the shots now and not let him go, this is where I personally believe they are making a mistake. Protect your biggest marketing assett in this league, because if he gets hurt, it will be the dumbest decision in it's existence.

You are talking about a player playing 2 MLS seasons and half an Italian Seria A season in a row. You don't think odds are he'll be hurt by the time he's supposed to come back?

[Shaughno]

You keep saying that. But MLS was not offered Beckham with that caveat. That was not part of the deal when Beckham came. MLS has the right to call the shots now and not let him go, this is where I personally believe they are making a mistake. Protect your biggest marketing assett in this league, because if he gets hurt, it will be the dumbest decision in it's existence.

You are talking about a player playing 2 MLS seasons and half an Italian Seria A season in a row. You don't think odds are he'll be hurt by the time he's supposed to come back?


I'll give you one reason why they won't say no.


Beckham will, and I almost guarantee it, use his Opt Out clause if they try to block it. Then what? Then they lose their biggest marketing tool and money maker in the same shot.

I honestly believe he doesn't want to be a secondary player for his last few seasons and he can, and will, thrive here when he comes back. They let him go, he stays match fit, he plays for England, he comes back and all is well, injuries or not.

[Pachuco]

I'll give you one reason why they won't say no.


Beckham will, and I almost guarantee it, use his Opt Out clause if they try to block it. Then what? Then they lose their biggest marketing tool and money maker in the same shot.

I honestly believe he doesn't want to be a secondary player for his last few seasons and he can, and will, thrive here when he comes back. They let him go, he stays match fit, he plays for England, he comes back and all is well, injuries or not.

When is his opt out clause?

All is not well if he's hurt when he comes back. What player in professional sports can play 2.5 seasons at a competitive level with no time off and not get hurt?

[Shaughno]

I'm not sure to be honest. I remember reading about it somewhere, but I just read an article over lunch in the paper that suggest Milan was considering 'buying out' the remainder of his contract with LA...

[trane]

There is an opt out clause that kicks in at the end of the second season.

[SLBuu]

I'm not sure to be honest. I remember reading about it somewhere, but I just read an article over lunch in the paper that suggest Milan was considering 'buying out' the remainder of his contract with LA...

and how much would that cost?

[jabbronies]

Beckham long balls to Inzaghi.....that's all he'll be doing when he's there.

[Chevy]

So in essence the MLS will become the development league for European clubs? Is that what you are promoting the MLS should become?


When you really think about it, almost every league in the world is a development league for the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and the Bundesliga.

[Shaughno]

When you really think about it, almost every league in the world is a development league for the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and the Bundesliga.

It's so true. The Portugeuse know all about being a development league. ;)

[ACSertL]

It's so true. The Portugeuse know all about being a development league. ;)

The Eredivisie as well.

[Chevy]

If still in doubt - look at Arsenal's club. There are players on the roster from the following countries:

England
Spain
France
Ireland
Czech Republic
Croatia
Mexico
Brazil
Wales
Ghana
Switzerland
Poland
Togo
Portugal
Denmark

Even five of the six guys out on loan are foreigners!!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.

[ACSertL]

If still in doubt - look at Arsenal's club. There are players on the roster from the following countries:

England
Spain
France
Ireland
Czech Republic
Croatia
Mexico
Brazil
Wales
Ghana
Switzerland
Poland
Togo
Portugal
Denmark

Even five of the six guys out on loan are foreigners!!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.

Holland as well :D. You know...to further my point above.

[SLBuu]

It's so true. The Portugeuse know all about being a development league. ;)

yup.... thats why the big five will always remain the big five.

[trane]

I do not mind players moving to Europe, what I would like more access to larger pools of talent on and off the field. You would get that if we were more recognized globaly, but thinking that we can compete with the major European leagues is silly, even Brazil, Argentina and France have a hard time, forget about North American. But if we are better regarded we will have access to more quality. There are plenty of tallented but non-star players in Europe, east and West, Africa and South America to go around, and there will be more from the emerging soccer nations in Asia, it is a matter of time. Several Korean and Chinese players have already made their way to the EPL.

[olegunnar]

2 positives I can think of that haven't been mentioned.

1) He played in Europe, came to the MLS then went back. That's not a common MLS career path. Right now it's a play here then leave for good...or a play there then retire here.
I think the back and forth should be encouraged. Granted Beckham is a special case in that he came for money and LA, but still I like the idea that MLS isn't a womb or a graveyard, it can be a viable career pit stop.

2) The Beckham bounce has had it's time, I bet it's on the downslope now. If they can snag a Henry or someone else then there will be a new bounce, in a new market.
You can't have a new King without getting rid of the old King. Like it our not MLS isn't big enough to have more than one King.

[Oldtimer]

You can't have a new King without getting rid of the old King. Like it our not MLS isn't big enough to have more than one King.

The NASL did (although they bankrupted the league in the process).

[Shakes McQueen]

You keep saying that. But MLS was not offered Beckham with that caveat. That was not part of the deal when Beckham came. MLS has the right to call the shots now and not let him go, this is where I personally believe they are making a mistake. Protect your biggest marketing assett in this league, because if he gets hurt, it will be the dumbest decision in it's existence.

You are talking about a player playing 2 MLS seasons and half an Italian Seria A season in a row. You don't think odds are he'll be hurt by the time he's supposed to come back?

But that wasn't MLS's option. Beckham had an opt out in his contract this winter, that he could have used to leave MLS for good. Instead, he clearly made a deal with the league that let's him play top-flight football, and still honour his commitment to the Galaxy.

Is there a chance he might come back injured? If he isn't a super-sub, sure. But if that's the case, then MLS had two options - somehow convince him to dedicate himself 100% to MLS, or go.

It isn't a great situation for MLS, but it's better than nothing, in my opinion.

- Scott

[ensco]

If he leaves then it on him. If we hold his hand and walk him out the door, it's on us. One hurts Beckham's reputation, the other establishes the league as a back-water secondary league with no hope of establishing itself as a major league.

No other major league in the entire world would allow it's star players to play in another league, the second we allow our stars to play in other leagues we're signalling to the world that we aren't a major league. End of story.



You guys who are all up in arms about this...I'm curious: do you work for a business, or have you had any exposure to business?

How does it make a difference whether it's "on him" or "on us"? You've mentioned this 3 times now but I can't follow how this would matter - if Beckham justs opts out, MLS would get eviscerated for the failed Beckham experiment, and if you can't acknowledge how obvious this is, then I can't help you.

Beckham's case is unique to his circumstances (unique in terms of the marketing aspect, and unique in terms of the career renaissance - face it, most people thought he was done at Madrid). Whinging about the indignities of what it all means for MLS strikes me as pretty silly.

As to all this crying about the fact that no other team would do this, come on. How many Rooneys, Messis and Ronaldos don't play for the big teams in Europe? The answer is zero.

[CretanBull]

A James Sharman article from the Footyshow Blog....



Becks move mystifies his Gaffer!

Imagine this. Michael Owen, an ageing albeit effective superstar, decides that he needs to prove to Fabio Capello that he still 'has it' and despite a sub-par season, where injury derrailed him in part, and playing on a very poor team, derrailed him further, suggests that in order to force his way onto the England World Cup squad, he had better keep playing through the off-season, sign with another team, in a different league, and perhaps get the playing time, and the form that will appease his national boss. Imagine Owen meeting with the Newcastle brass, and asking if they would loan him out for a few months over the summer?

Imagine it!

Now, accepting that the current Newcastle regime might actually agree, let's be serious. It would never happen! It would be a farce. It would paint Newcastle as weak willed, unaccountable, and a team where the inmates clearly run the asylum. Moreover, it would paint the Premier League as a Mickey Mouse operation, where the standard of play is so low that it's stars don't even need an off season to recover.

I am in disbelief that David Beckham is set to sign with AC Milan. This isn't a Beckham issue, or an AC Milan issue, as much as certain people (some of whom are close to me) are using the story as an opportunity to lambaste Beckham's ability, or lack there of, this is an MLS issue. I fully understand why Beckham wants to play over the winter, it's been well documented, he's even been encouraged by Fabio Capello, and clearly for Milan it is a master PR move. The big picture here, is the hold Beckham has on MLS.

The signing of 'The Other Special One' has been brilliantly handled by MLS. I still support it as a clever, albeit expensive move, which has already payed off. However, this latest twist goes a long way to destroy what credibility the league has gained since Beckham arrived. Just what do you think the rest if the world is thinking at the moment? It isn't pretty. It also reveals that Becks sees MLS as his own personal play thing, a league that pays the bills, meets his need for a challenge, and cements his brand in North America. It, as if we ever thought it was, was never about the football.

Bruce Arena, as credible a figure, and as big a supporter of North American soccer as there is also seems mystified. And he's Beckham's coach! Arena says that on the surface it is very odd for a player to do what Beckham is. I bet that under Arena's surface he is absolutely furious!

I just wonder how MLS will sell this? If they try to argue that if the loan move secures Beckham's England future, then it will enhance the leagues credibility, then they are as dellusional as they appear.
As you know, I am a big Beckham backer, but this is a selfish move, and demonstrates that David Beckham calls the shots in the league, he clearly transcends any football that is played in this league!

[Roogsy]

Boggles the mind. It really does. Seeing this as a positive is like saying cancer is helpful because it makes you lose weight.

[CretanBull]

^ Hahahah, ouch, but hahahaha.

[Shakes McQueen]

Boggles the mind. It really does. Seeing this as a positive is like saying cancer is helpful because it makes you lose weight.

I don't see it as a positive for the league - I simply see it as a lose-lose situation, so we might as well try to find something positive to draw from it.

If Beckham goes on loan, it makes the league look bad. But the other option is that he jumps ship at first opportunity (his opt out window), to go and play "real football", which also makes the league look bad.

I think the league should just frame it as something that, while unfortunate, had to happen in order for Beckham to make the national squad - which it did. Perhaps if MLS played a more UEFA-ish league schedule, we wouldn't be in this situation.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

I don't see it as a positive for the league - I simply see it as a lose-lose situation, so we might as well try to find something positive to draw from it.

If Beckham goes on loan, it makes the league look bad. But the other option is that he jumps ship at first opportunity (his opt out window), to go and play "real football", which also makes the league look bad.

I think the league should just frame it as something that, while unfortunate, had to happen in order for Beckham to make the national squad - which it did. Perhaps if MLS played a more UEFA-ish league schedule, we wouldn't be in this situation.

- Scott

Not you Shakes...and I agree. It's a lose/lose situation that we have to accept, but not necessarily like.

[ensco]

A James Sharman article from the Footyshow Blog....

Sharman's just somebody else who doesn't know about, or can't think through, Beckham's opt out

[CretanBull]

Do you think that Beckham would opt-out of a deal that owes him $150 million dollars and in the process forever brand him as a quiter in North America? I don't.

[Shakes McQueen]

Do you think that Beckham would opt-out of a deal that owes him $150 million dollars and in the process forever brand him as a quiter in North America? I don't.

If he wouldn't, then why would MLS make the deal with him?

Beckham is filthy rich, and probably makes more from sponsorships and endorsement deals than his club salary.

Plus, there are teams like AC Milan that would love to sign him anyway. He doesn't need AEG's money.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Not you Shakes...and I agree. It's a lose/lose situation that we have to accept, but not necessarily like.

We are on the same page then. :D

- Scott

[Bluenose13]

Sharman's just somebody else who doesn't know about, or can't think through, Beckham's opt outExactly.......short sited & closed minded article.

[trane]

^ I do not think that Beckham needs the money, but I do not think AC takes him if it were not for the current situation, it is alot of money to spend on what Milan has in ubandace, very talented but older (in footy terms) mids. But under the current situation it helps them make a run at Serie A at an ucceptable cost. This deal simply happened only because of the very particular situation, Cappello's involvment, and that the MLS plays a scheudle opposite to European Footy. Cappello love him or hate him will do anything it takes to push his sides to victory. When he was coaching Becks at Real it was cause of conflict.

However, it is what it is Becks was calling the shots because of the contract the league must try to take advantage of this. Perhaps have a contract for Cappello to coach TFC when his stint with England is done.

[Shaughno]

Do you think that Beckham would opt-out of a deal that owes him $150 million dollars and in the process forever brand him as a quiter in North America? I don't.


Remember, his deal with LA is only a 5 year $50 million deal. The extra $200 million is all sponsor money.

[trane]

Remember, his deal with LA is only a 5 year $50 million deal. The extra $200 million is all sponsor money.

Acctually when you put it that way that is not a bad price for him at all, if he stays on his current form. A bit steep because of his age, but 10 Mil for his quality and marketing cachet is not bad for a big club.

He is such a potential game breaker that even as a sub it may be worth it. You put him in on the wing, put Pato, Kaka, Ronaldinho in the box, Pirlo not to far out of the box, your chances of scoring are pretty good.

[CretanBull]

Remember, his deal with LA is only a 5 year $50 million deal. The extra $200 million is all sponsor money.

It's not sponsor money, it's guaranteed money that LA gave Becks up front vs. his possible future earnings (on things like merch, image rights etc.) If he walks away from LA, he'll lose that portion of the deal too....it's not just his $5-$6 million salary that he'd lose.

[ensco]

Remember, his deal with LA is only a 5 year $50 million deal. The extra $200 million is all sponsor money.

Actually it's $27.5 million ($5.5 million a year). And the sponsor money is totally contigent on merchandise sales - the adidas contract has never been made public.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/galaxys-beckham-out-of-this-world-as-pay-skyrockets-806217.html

This contract was always stupidly over-hyped every which way to Sunday.

[CretanBull]

He is such a potential game breaker that even as a sub it may be worth it. You put him in on the wing, put Pato, Kaka, Ronaldinho in the box, Pirlo not to far out of the box, your chances of scoring are pretty good.

He'll be able to contribute to AC Milan on the pitch for sure (even at this point, late in a game is there anyone in the world who you'd rather see taking a free kick deep in the attacking zone?) but this is more about helping AC Milan's financial situation. Beckham will make millions from him, without costing them anything.

[ensco]

It's not sponsor money, it's guaranteed money that LA gave Becks up front vs. his possible future earnings (on things like merch, image rights etc.) If he walks away from LA, he'll lose that portion of the deal too....it's not just his $5-$6 million salary that he'd lose.

You are embarassing yourself. If he leaves he'll have a new merchandise deal with his new club. He'll make that money either way.

I really don't think you have any experience in business whatsoever.

[CretanBull]

^ Not a $50 million dollar a year merch deal.

And go fuck yourself.

[kelzag]

Morgan Campbell's blog on the topic:

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/

[nascarguy]

Beckham is not that great of a player anymore the only thing he does great is sell his name I hope he gets hurt

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is mindboggling that this thread has 8 pages.

[trane]

Morgan Campbell's blog on the topic:

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/


The problem for the MLS is that with the opt out, they are not holding any of the cards at this juncture. Thay can say no. He moves anyway, and they lose him permantly.

[Shaughno]

^ Not a $50 million dollar a year merch deal.

And go fuck yourself.

:eek:

Maybe not $50M a year, but I'm sure it's hardly an amount to scoff at.

[Shaughno]

The problem for the MLS is that with the opt out, they are not holding any of the cards at this juncture. Thay can say no. He moves anyway, and they lose him permantly.

Hog tied as it were.

[flatpicker]

This is mindboggling that this thread has 8 pages.

QFT!

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is mindboggling that this thread has 8 pages.

Proof that there's a reason to get him regardless what he does on the pitch.

[Shaughno]

Proof that there's a reason to get him regardless what he does on the pitch.


Proof that Beckham is a major marketing tool and that you want to hold onto him for as long as possible.

[Boris]

You are embarassing yourself. If he leaves he'll have a new merchandise deal with his new club. He'll make that money either way.

I really don't think you have any experience in business whatsoever.


^ Not a $50 million dollar a year merch deal.

And go fuck yourself.

personal insults are NOT tolerated!

[ensco]

personal insults are NOT tolerated!

OK. I think the guy is being ridiculous, but I see that I may have gone too far.

However, putting my comment together with his seems harsh to me.

[Shaughno]

I think he was just trying to nip the problem before it got worse. ;)

[ensco]

I think he was just trying to nip the problem before it got worse. ;)

I get it. No problem.

[nascarguy]

Proof that Beckham is a major marketing tool and that you want to hold onto him for as long as possible.
that is all Beckham is good for. if he had great skills la would have made it to the playoffs

[Shaughno]

that is all Beckham is good for. if he had great skills la would have made it to the playoffs


Wrong. Who was the highest scoring team in the league? Who has two of the top 5 goal scorers in the league?

One player can only do so much, especially when you have ZERO defense.

[nascarguy]

Wrong. Who was the highest scoring team in the league? Who has two of the top 5 goal scorers in the league?

One player can only do so much, especially when you have ZERO defense.
he was a great player for manu & Real Madrid

yeah your right la has no defense the only good players on the team is

Edson Buddle 14 goals Assists 3
Landon Donovan 19 goals Assists 9
David Beckham 5 goals Assists 9

[trane]

No way that Buddle ladycakes get 33 between them without Beckhams service.

[SLBuu]

are people really still talking about this.... dam, i guess some people really make him out to be more imortant than he actually is.

[nascarguy]

here is the stats from last year with out beckhams

Landon Donovan 8 goal & Assists 13

[Vindaloo]

I really don't see what the big deal is. At the weekend he's off work til Spring except a small tour of Asia in Dec. He's being offered work with AC Milan until Galaxy start the regular season. This keeps him fit for international matches, which are a priority for any international footballer, as Capello, his coach, says as much. It also keeps him fit for the coming MLS season.

The temporary move also keeps the Gal's biggest investment in the international spotlight, playing at the highest level in one of the top leagues in the world. They should be thanking their lucky charms this is happening.

Surely him being kicked off of international duty forever is partly detrimental to the Gal's marketing manifesto for Beckham.

[Shaughno]

Latest and greatest:



David Beckham has revealed he is joining AC Milan on loan from LA Galaxy purely to save his England career. (Various)

[Mrs. Workie]

:rofl:

Funniest thing I've read all week.

[Oldtimer]

More Beckham news:


On Wednesday the Italian club confirmed that they are trying to sign David Beckham on loan from LA Galaxy.
Now Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi wants her to present a film charting the couples move, including their arrival, house-hunt and their first shopping trips in the European fashion capital, it has been reported.
It is also hoped that the couple's friends Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes will appear in the show.
If she accepts the deal, it will make Victoria Beckham the most highly paid presenter in Italian television history.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3256780/Victoria-Beckham-offered-10million-for-AC-Milan-documentary.html

:ack2: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3256780/Victoria-Beckham-offered-10million-for-AC-Milan-documentary.html)


LONDON (AFP) — David Beckham said on Saturday he felt "honoured" about the prospect of a loan move to "one of the biggest sides in the world" in Italian giants AC Milan but stressed his long-term future was with LA Galaxy.
England midfielder Beckham is set to put pen to paper on a temporary move to the San Siro with his American club's Major League Soccer season now at an end.
Such a move is necessary if Beckham is to maintain the match fitness England boss Fabio Capello says is essential if the free-kick expert is to have a chance of equalling Bobby Moore's 108-cap record in next month's friendly away to Germany.
"One of the reasons I want to train and play in Milan for a few months is the fact that the MLS season doesn't run as long as the European season and my body is programmed to actually not have that amount of time off," former Manchester United and Real Madrid playmaker Beckham told his official website.
"AC Milan is one of the biggest clubs in the world, I've been lucky enough to play with one of the biggest clubs in England, one of the biggest clubs in Spain and now I'm being given the chance to play with one of the biggest clubs in Italy.
"I've been given the chance to join up with Milan for a couple of months and I'm very honoured."

And it was clear the 33-year-old, for all he has repeatedly defended the standard of the MLS, was excited about working with some of the best players in the world once again.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hf4cOW9yeexT3uYYNYYw3dr3HcsA

What, Edson Buddle is not one of the "best players in the world?"

:rolleyes:


Speaking for the first time since his planned move to AC Milan became public knowledge last week, David Beckham on Saturday said he had every intention of returning to the Galaxy in time for the 2009 Major League Soccer season.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-beckham26-2008oct26,0,3963330.story

[trane]

Edson Buddle is not "one of the best palyers in the world" but he certainly is one of the top 10, 000 stikers in the world.