Next Season - Realistic Appraisal

[Hitcho]

The off-season will be full of insane posts about who we're acquiring and what positions we need to fill (especially DP stuff) but, realistically, and assuming we keep our core players, here's how I see our starting XI for next season:

Sutton

Wynne
Marshall
Velez/James OR New Player
Brennan

Ricketts
Robbo
Amado
Smith OR New Player

Barrett
Dichio OR New Player

Now I know we've got some good young players who will hopefully get more game time next season, and some ok squad players, but focussing on the starting XI I think we'll see a new CB for sure and probably a striker (hopefully as a DP). A left sided midfielder of top pedigree would also be good, but we'll have Dunivant back so Brennan might push up there.

More than three top players seems unlikely to me, and I'm also hoping to avoid wholesale changes and keep some stability in the squad/side because we've finished the season in ok form and we want the new players to gel properly BEFORE the season starts in 2009.

I'm looking for thoughts on what positions we'll likely fill rather who the actual players will be. So, whaddya reckon?

:D

[flatpicker]

I thought we already decided that Henry was coming to Toronto??!!! ;)

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/henrytfc2.jpg

[TFC_Toon]

I thought we already decided that Henry was coming to Toronto??!!! ;)

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/henrytfc2.jpg

That's a given Flat, I already have this pic up as wallpaper. Now to additional signings to complement Mr. Henry.....:)

[Hitcho]

I thought we already decided that Henry was coming to Toronto??!!! ;)

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/henrytfc2.jpg

Cheers FP, this is exactly what i was looking for...

;)

[ccopela]

If Robbo leaves that's another hole we'll need to fill.

[deschamp86]

Probably add Harmse into the mix for that CB spot with Velez and James. At this point I'd say that he is the more likely of the three.

[Nuvinho]

I see/hope these 3 things happen:

1. a DP striker
2. a anchor at Central Defense
3. Gerard

[trane]

We need one new player at each position. Everyone is still looking for a DP striker. I cannot disagree with this. We can use more help in the mid, Robbo( if he stays), Guevarra and Rickets are set, but the others are still not proved. We ceartainly need an upgrade at the back, I am good with Attakora, Wynne and Brennan, but we need an upgrade at centreback.

[Lucky Strike]

- We need 2 additional CBs: One to replaced Velez and another in order to relegate Marshall to the bench. I'd keep Harmse there for next season.

- Assuming Robbo stays, I'd like to see one extra good midfielder to create competition for shirts.

- Is it unrealistic to want a DP striker? I don't think so. At the very least, we need another one who's as good as Barrett and another damn good one (no matter what we pay him). If Dichio remains with TFC, we'd only need the damn good one.

Ideally, this is what I'd like to happen to our starting XI. Further needs may be addressed for the bench/covering for injuries/internationals etc...

[yellowfellow]

I see/hope these 3 things happen:

1. a DP striker
2. a anchor at Central Defense
3. Gerard

So, Gerrard is coming and not as a DP? You think he will play for $300K a year? That's a good deal.

[Nuvinho]

Assuming Robbo stays, I'd like to see one extra good midfielder to create competition for shirts.

That's where I think the spanish Gerard could be a good fit, and he is a great passer, which will help both our wings and forwards.

[Nuvinho]

So, Gerrard is coming and not as a DP? You think he will play for $300K a year? That's a good deal.

Gerrard is English, Gerard is Spanish.

[Hitcho]

Another good central midfielder to put pressure on Robbo and Amado is interesting, although it would surely have to be someone who wasn't at risk of being called up for internationals. Same goes for any DP we get, whatever position he plays. Our list of definite starters who don't get called up for internationals is pretty short, and this needs to be steadily addressed.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

How i would like to see the line up if i were JC

Edwards

Wynne - Marshall - James - Dunivant

- Robinson - Brennan - Ricketts

Guevara - Barrett - IBBY


go for a more attacking mode...

[Oldtimer]

How i would like to see the line up if i were JC

Edwards

Wynne - Marshall - James - Dunivant

- Robinson - Brennan - Ricketts

Guevara - Barrett - IBBY


go for a more attacking mode...

No DP striker? James on D? Not good enough.

[colman1860]

How i would like to see the line up if i were JC

Edwards

Wynne - Marshall - James - Dunivant

- Robinson - Brennan - Ricketts

Guevara - Barrett - IBBY


go for a more attacking mode...

Glad you're not JC then...

[Chewy Unikronik]

Glad you're not JC then...
A-fuckin-men!!!!! :hump: LOL!!!!

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

No DP striker? James on D? Not good enough.

since we don't have a dp striker its hard to add him...saying that if there is a good one signed....move Ibby as a sub...James will be better in his second year.

[Section 117]

My realistic approach to next year is as follows:

1. Make the playoffs - As the team is going into it's third year they need to make the playoffs. If they do not make the playoffs we have greater problems than anyone would wants us to believe

2. New Center Backs - I would prefer two, but one is a minimum. He has to be able to play no Tyrone Marshall, Julius James. or Velez. We need a player who will control the back line.Teliby for what it is worth is probably the best defender to actually wear our jersey.

3. A DP Striker - We need a proven goal scorer, not some washed has been that played at a high level 5 years ago. There is one in my opinion that plays in the MLS that is a free agent who we could sign. His name is Juan Pablo Angel from the NU Shitebulls. 13 goals 3 assits in 22 games. He has scored in almost 60% percent of his games.

4. Danny & Robbo Staying - I want Danny to stay as he is a great leader and he is a great influence in the locker room. And overall class act. Robbo as he is the best player on our team and he is our MVP for this season and overall class act.

This is what I want next year

[Zeke_Jones]

I hope Toronto makes the playoffs next year but im afraid somebody in the front office is gonna trade in all that cash from the Edu sale for some magical beans.....

[Cambridge_Red]

I see alot of moves in the offseason, a quality striker and 2 solid defenders is a must.

[RPB73]

How i would like to see the line up if i were JC

Edwards

Wynne - Marshall - James - Dunivant

- Robinson - Brennan - Ricketts

Guevara - Barrett - IBBY


go for a more attacking mode...

Barrett is not a centre forward, Guevara is not fast enough to play in a wide position. Marshall and James are a nightmare, and that midfield lacks creativity. If that was to be our starting 11 I will take any bet that we don't make the playoffs.

[scooterTFC]

Here’s my opinion on what we’re going to need to add to the team in the offseason as well as how the current player will slot into next years roster

For next year I think we to upgrade the following positions:

Striker
CB

And based on how the roster develops in the offseason, we might need to backfill departures in the following slots

Holding Mid - Robbo
RB - Wynne
Wingers – do we have anyone playing the left side of our midfield (I think we have 3 LB’s platooning at left wing)? If he stays, is Rickets the answer on the right side?

Returning players from this season and their roles next year:
GK – No Changes needed

Sutton - solid no need to make a change
Edwards - a good back-up (will put pressure on Sutton in pre-season again)
FB - No changes needed (there might be some positional shuffling)

Wynne - will be a defining year in his career – is he a star in the making?
Brennan - could stay at LB or move to midfield depending how the roster evolves
Dunivant - good enough to start if JB moves to mid
Attakora - still needs seasoning but is a legit depth guy for next year with potential to play a bigger role down the road
CB - Changes needed - who’s in and who’s out?

Velez/Marshall - I predict that only one of two will be back. Does it really matter which one? Neither one of them is going to be the ‘sheriff’ to anchor the backline of a team with playoff aspirations. But either could serve as deputy. Lately, Velez looks to be in JC’s doghouse, but he’s younger and cheaper. Marshall has been more consistent.
Harmse - will he get a chance to compete for a starting position CB? Might be a better fit for his style of play than mid (although how many PK’s could he cost us with his sloppy tackling).
James – same as Attakora
Mid – Don’t go Robbo! We need a wide threat to spread field and balance the build-up of our attack – otherwise teams will just keep clogging up the center of the filed to neutralize Gueverra.

Gueverra - Hopefully JC finds away to keep him focused and challenged. Has anyone else noticed that he seems to play to the level of opponent?


Robbo/Ricketts - Why do a I feel like we’ll only see one of these guys back next year? If I had my choice it would be Robbo – but from a salary cap perspective he’s an expensive holding-mid in a league that typically only pays $$ for attacking players. Is Ricketts the best wing player we can get? He seems skilled but he also seems to lack aggression and confidence – attacking players should really want the ball and work to make themselves available – he’s seems ball shy at times.
Jo Smith – he looks like he’s going to be an impact player for us, in the mode of Dane Richards for the RBNY. Is he a starter next year? Or 60th min sub when we need offense.
Forward - The search for a striker continues

Barrett - he should be a regular starter but he’s not going to be a 20 goal guy
Dichio - if he comes back its got to be as a late game sub or spot starter
Ibrahim - he looks like he needs more time to develop…but he’s so young its hard to predict how slow/fast he will develop

[nascarguy]

I thought we already decided that Henry was coming to Toronto??!!! ;)

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/henrytfc2.jpg
that would be nice

[twistedchinaman]

Five things:

- Finisher (to compliment Barrett)
- DP
- DEFENCE
- Playoffs (at least the first round please!)
- Beating Craplumbus (Besides SJ, Chivas and New England, no team more detestable we have remained winless against)

[Hitcho]

WHy is everyone saying Robbo might go? he's easily one of our top two or three players, and in his position he could play on for a few years yet. Has he said something about leaving? I can't believe JC wants to get rid of him. So where did this come from? Anyone know?!

[flatpicker]

^ nobody wants him to go!

But he apparently has offers back home to play...
He has said that playing in Toronto has re-energised his love for footie.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

WHy is everyone saying Robbo might go? he's easily one of our top two or three players, and in his position he could play on for a few years yet. Has he said something about leaving? I can't believe JC wants to get rid of him. So where did this come from? Anyone know?!

Did you read the news at all today?
The several articles in which JC stated he doesnt want him to leave and that hes had offers abroad from EPL teams or something?
Gotta read before you jump to conclusions

[Ossington Mental Youth]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Kerr-trains-with-Falkirk.4568046.jp

Kerr may still be an option next season...

[Hitcho]

Did you read the news at all today?
The several articles in which JC stated he doesnt want him to leave and that hes had offers abroad from EPL teams or something?
Gotta read before you jump to conclusions

Did you read my post at all?! I didn't jump to any conclusions, all I did was ask a question.

Having said that, thanks for the clarification! :D:D

[David_Oliveira]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Kerr-trains-with-Falkirk.4568046.jp

Kerr may still be an option next season...

I've never heard of Kerr. Could you give us more info on:
How he plays
What position (I know mid but where in mid)

Thanks

[David_Oliveira]

yeesh he's had some bad luck.
looks like in 2003 broke his leg and then in 2004 he tore his ACL and MCL in a preseason game

[Ossington Mental Youth]

He was here for a trial and almost got signed before the end of the international window here. Plays DM and played at Newcastle and Hibbies. Was recently released. Was held in high regard but according to diff people he either a) fell off or b) fell out of favor.
Ill see if i can find some info but i seem to remember Morgan Campbell saying that it wouldnt be out of the question if we saw him again in the new season... Could be Robbos replacement should he leave...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2008/09/with-less-than.html

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Did you read my post at all?! I didn't jump to any conclusions, all I did was ask a question.

Having said that, thanks for the clarification! :D:D

HAHA
sorry for coming off snarky

[AL-MO]

How i would like to see the line up if i were JC

Edwards

Wynne - Marshall - James - Dunivant

- Robinson - Brennan - Ricketts

Guevara - Barrett - IBBY


go for a more attacking mode...

By setting this out you are suggesting that the players we currently have are good enough. This is clearly not the case. We didn't make the playoffs.

Aside of the defensive issues, the other problems I see with the above lineup are:
1) Brennan in the middle - don't think he has what it takes to play in the middle of the park
2) Starting Ibby - needs more time to develop before he becomes a regular starter. Should come off the bench

[el rojo fanatico]

We still have to see who we lose in the expansoin draft. Clubs can only protect 11 players(i think) if so there might be more holes to fill than the ones we have now

[djking2]

It's possible that the player order for the team appreciation lap at the end of the last game was totally random but, when Ty Marchall came by us after DD the thought crossed my mind that it was the last time we'd see Marshall at BMO. Most of us are assuming he'll be back but I can't help but wonder.

[Hitcho]

HAHA
sorry for coming off snarky

Heh, no worries dude. Can be hard to guage tone on e-forums sometimes. Interesting link to the Kerr article btw, thanks. I still hope Robbo stays though because A) he's facking brilliant and B) i want to see that windmill celebration at least once more before he goes...

[Hitcho]

It's possible that the player order for the team appreciation lap at the end of the last game was totally random but, when Ty Marchall came by us after DD the thought crossed my mind that it was the last time we'd see Marshall at BMO. Most of us are assuming he'll be back but I can't help but wonder.

I wondered that too, and because like DD he brought his kids along on the lap. but then I heard DD say in an interview he was only behind because he waited for his kids to join him and he wasn't retiring. So the same may be true of Tyrone. We'll have to see. I'd be less bothered about Marshall going, so long as we get a decent CB to replace him. DD is part of the spirit of the club, so I think we all hope he plays one more season.

[GuelphStorm2007]

It is still to early to predict for next year, But I would not have a problem with Harmse in one of the CB positions, Of course a attacking midfielder will help. and a DP striker.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

we have two attacking midfielders
Guevara
Rosenlund
we do not need more.
i do agree with Harmse at CB

[jloome]

Kerr is a better midfielder than Robbo, a hard tackler and a two-way player because he can deliver a really nice pass. My understanding though is that his play (allegedly, you never know with managers) dropped off considerably after his injuries.

[Hitcho]

I'd keep Robbo in a heartbeat, because he's proven for TFC. No way would I want to replace him, and the more big players we can hold onto from that magical first season the better I say. They won't last forever but it'd be nice to keep some of the spirit around and pass it on to the new players.

Guevara is a first XI player, Rosenlund is a squad player. So if we were to get another first XI level attacking CM, I'd be fine with that.

Harmse deserves a shot at the second CB slot (competing with Tyrone and James), but we really need a top class CB to come in and lead the line next season.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

defo need a CB to run the back

[The Oz]

Hey Ossington, you said that Robbo was getting EPL offers, mind if i see the link? Thanks.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

a .500 season next year or close should see a playoff date depending on the changes other clubs make. It would also still mark continuing improvement in the clubs short history.

[VPjr]

way too much sentimentality from some in this thread. This is not a great team. Its adequate, at best, but without a significant facelift, they are still looking at missing the playoffs in 2009. This team has a lot of ill fitting pieces, IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, the only players I'd hate to see leave the team are:

Guevara
Dichio
Ibrahim
Ricketts
Dunivant
Wynne
Nana
Brennan

that's it....even most of those guys are replaceable but I generally like what those players bring to the table and you need to keep some degree of continuity from year to year. total overhauls are disruptive.

the rest? I'm indifferent about some (i.e. Marshall, Jo. Smith, Sutton, Barrett, Robinson and some of the young Canadians) and others I just want to see get out of town ASAP (i.e. James, Ruiz, Velez, Ja. Smith).

to really take a big step forward, this team needs at least 8 quality players to come into the side.

Forward:

We need a top notch, can't miss Striker (a Juan Pablo Angel-like, clinical striker on a DP deal).

Plus, I'd like to see at least one more young striker added to compete for PT. Ibrahim is a talent but he needs to be pushed.


MF:

We need more quality and depth in midfield. 2-3 new faces at minimum.

Rosenlund is not a player who can be relied on for substantial playing time if we expect this team to make a big step forward. Jo. Smith is still a project in my mind (all world athlete but not a quality footballer yet).

I'd rather take Robinson's 300K salary and find two guys who'll earn the same amount (more or less). It won't be easy to replace Carl's ball winning ability but he's a horrible passer of the ball...that's a fact. Any new players must be able to help Guevara with ball distribution duties. They need to be trolling South America and Central America for these types of players...forget Europe...too expensive.

Defence:

We need alot of new faces on D. There are no safe spots in my mind, not even Brennan. Where they find these quality defenders? I don't know.

If Wynne leaves, we're really screwed. Marvell is now becomming reliable in his 3rd season even though he still makes big mistakes positionally (but his other attributes make those errors more acceptable).

Nana is quality but young. I'd be worried if we are relying on him to be a starter at 20 years old.

Harmse is a wild card. He might develop into a reliable CB. If he does, I can live with Marshall and Harmse as starting center backs. That would be a hard nosed tandem (too bad they are both lousy passers of the ball).

In my opinion, you can't rely on draft picks to step in...too much of a jump up in quality between college soccer and the pro game. It takes a minimum of 3 years for the typical college player to transition and i still think that most college players pick up too many bad habits. I'd rather find up and coming 19-20 year olds and try to develop them in a professional system (like what they are doing with Nana).

I'm ok with Sutton as GK but that is also a position that could use upgrading. I'd feel better about Sutton as my backup rather than as my starter. he's definitely not among the best in MLS, nor is he the worst. Maybe Lars Hirschfeld would like to play in North America. sitting at the end of the bench for a team in Romania has to get a bit boring sometimes, don't you think?

[VPjr]

^ sorry for such a long post...

[ensco]

^ sorry for such a long post...

Great post. My only quibbles -

1) I'd put Ricketts in the the "I'm indifferent" category, as he had too many games where he was invisible for me, and I don't think he's a great crosser,

2)I'd move Barrett up as a guy I'd keep - he had more skill than I expected (expectations based on how the Chicago fans hated him) and he has a shot at being a 15 goal scorer in this league

[Hitcho]

^ sorry for such a long post...

I'd include Barrett in the keep list for sure, he's been really good for us since we got him, plus he will bleed for the shirt and always gives 100% effort, and he has a reliable free kick by the looks of it, and is reasonably young and well versed in MLS. Definitely a keeper.

I agree about the midfield, we could use a couple of extra faces, but I'd settle for keeping Robbo and getting in someone who can do a good job left mid or CM (without international hang ups).

Defence we just need a top CB to shore us up, because with Wynne, Brennan, Dunivant, Nana we have good FBs and in Harmse, James, marshall we have good second CB cover.

Sutton I'd keep. He's Canadian, loves the club and has kept us in games this season, as well as stopped some from getting embarrassing. Edwards is an ok back up too.

I still think too many new faces will set us back too much. A top CB, a left mid player who can also cover CM and a decent striker to go with DD, CB and Ibby is what we really need. Then we'll have a starting XI that can really challenge and enough squad players to cover for injuries etc, except maybe in midfield.

[Luanda]

Yesterday, in another thread, I asked people for patience, since we just finished our 2nd season. Were Manchester, Porto, Barcelona, Milan etc. built overnight?

Today, I would like to point out one thing. Whatever TFC does in the off-season in terms of acquisitions to better the squad, other teams will be doing exactly the same. Adding players, even of higher calibre, does not necessarily improve the team. Such players have to be the right players (they have to fit into the core of TFC), otherwise it will all be to no avail.