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StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-17-2008, 05:31 PM
Alright Boys its here i know there are alot of random threads on this issue but some new numbers prove a good case for a large expansion of BMO field.

The Numbers:

16,000 Current Seasons Ticket holders

13,000 Waiting List Seasons tickets.

THATS 29,000 People!!!!! BMO needs alot of work , however i suggest if they add another deck to the east side, complete it by adding another ontop of the south end !! Photoshops will follow =) :canada:

P.s I know for a fact there are people not on the waiting list who want to acquire Seasons tickets with an increase in the stadium confirmed , you will see those app's boosted majorly:canada:

MartinUtd
10-17-2008, 05:39 PM
I'd rather see the corners filled first before anything major like a second deck on the east side. Also I think part of the pull for TFC is the fact that there's such a back log of tickets. As it sounds right now there's always 1000+ empty seats at every game (regardless of the announced sell outs).. I think if we expanded to 30000 you'd really noticed the holes in the stands.

I'd hate to see this at BMO

http://tfcsupporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/img_1075-800.jpg

TorCanSoc
10-17-2008, 05:45 PM
Great pic. Man we owned that stadium that day. Brilliant.

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-17-2008, 05:45 PM
not gunna happen, for a host of reasons, Toronto is a footy city, we have ample crowd, GET THE TICKS OUTA THE SCALPERS HANDS!!!!!! log onto those site and they have hundreds of ticks , thats y theres gaps....

MartinUtd
10-17-2008, 05:48 PM
Having said that, how many of those 13000 on the waiting list are or are associated with scalpers?

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-17-2008, 05:53 PM
i really dont think so even if you stretch it and say that 1000 of them are... thats still 12000 people! i think that the scalper problem has to be adressed swiftly, they have to be stripped of there tickets, and the ticks should be sold to a legit fan on the list..... until that happens you will see gaps in the stadium

Fernandinho
10-17-2008, 05:55 PM
I think it would be best to start off small with the expansion, fill in the corners etc. but dont exceed adding 5,000 seats...with that said, the issue of scalpers still exist. So why not cap a limit of say 4 seats for all new season seat holders and go from there.

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-17-2008, 06:03 PM
I think it would be best to start off small with the expansion, fill in the corners etc. but dont exceed adding 5,000 seats...with that said, the issue of scalpers still exist. So why not cap a limit of say 4 seats for all new season seat holders and go from there.

i tend to not agree, the east side is more than 5k seats, at least make it the same as the lower deck for future expansion, however we will be talking about this after the seats are on........ then they will have to expand again .....at a higher price ....

i say 10-15k it will sell mite get 33-34 k but it will be a bigger revenue than the 20k we get now

Fernandinho
10-17-2008, 06:09 PM
Well that was one problem I thought would arise...the fact that they would have to do another expansion which would lead to more construction costs.

Adding 10K will certainly help the demand for tickets and at the same time the scalper issue still stands (so fixing that is the key)...but Iam thinking if more "fans" were able to get tickets, than that would put a dent into the scalper situation

james
10-17-2008, 07:20 PM
i herd alot of people didnt renew there season tickets for next year. We ddin't sell out every single game this year. There was a few season games that had like 19,000 or so on. When we played Vancouver there was 18,100 fans, NOT SOLD OUT. When TFC played Montreal tickets weren't really selling like hot cakes either, they didn't sell out the tickets till the night before the game. We knew this was a huge game for TFC a few weeks ahead of time.Tickets aren't as big a demand as some people think or MLSE make it look. Id say if TFC expanded to 30,000 or so TFC would get pretty good crowds but i bet not sold out for the most part, Unless maybe we are top of the league. But if they had any bottom of the league finnishes i bet your just gonna see alot of empty seats in those extra 10,000 seats that make the stadium fit 30,000.

Really id say spend the money on fixing the stadium up, add some roofs on all the stands, fill the corners in, and add a north stand similar to the South End stand and then you got a nice stadium of maybe 25,000 or so and still keep it full for the most part. If they go any bigger your just gonna start seeing more empty seats more often!

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
10-17-2008, 09:18 PM
i dont agree, i believe the reason the two canada cup games mite not have been sold out due to poor marketing, also SCALPERS! if you see empty seats .... thats scalpers not selling there tix for triple the price... also stubhub and that other ripoff ILLEGAL scalping sites.......

rocker
10-17-2008, 09:25 PM
some of the empty seats later in the year were a negative side of having so many season ticket holders. When some people buy the whole season as a package, it's easy to get complacent when the team isn't doing well or the weather sucks. I am surrounded by guys who are fans of soccer but who are also clearly relatively wealthy and they don't come to every game. If those seats were always available to the general public on a game by game basis, we'd probably wouldn't see it happen. But since the games get sold out so early, the non-STH who doesn't know these guys doesn't have a way of getting the seats. So they go to "waste" (altho they are paid for).

profit89
10-17-2008, 10:20 PM
keep bmo at 20K... full stadium --> keeps demand high --> keeps stadium full.. circular.

profit89
10-17-2008, 10:22 PM
I'd rather see the corners filled first before anything major like a second deck on the east side. Also I think part of the pull for TFC is the fact that there's such a back log of tickets. As it sounds right now there's always 1000+ empty seats at every game (regardless of the announced sell outs).. I think if we expanded to 30000 you'd really noticed the holes in the stands.

I'd hate to see this at BMO

http://tfcsupporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/img_1075-800.jpg

sad.

MartinUtd
10-17-2008, 10:27 PM
i dont agree, i believe the reason the two canada cup games mite not have been sold out due to poor marketing, also SCALPERS! if you see empty seats .... thats scalpers not selling there tix for triple the price... also stubhub and that other ripoff ILLEGAL scalping sites.......

Although scalping is a big problem, I think you're giving them too much credit. In my buddies section there's a few people who were regulars and just stopped showing up. Not everyone share's the same enthusiasm as the minority on this board.

james
10-18-2008, 11:47 PM
Although scalping is a big problem, I think you're giving them too much credit. In my buddies section there's a few people who were regulars and just stopped showing up. Not everyone share's the same enthusiasm as the minority on this board.

i agree, i mean ya we have lots of fans but some people think TFC are a bigger deal then they really are. I think we could sell out 30,000 tickets to a game. I just dont think we would sell 30,000 every game. Id say keep the stadium small, then it will stay full.

james
10-18-2008, 11:55 PM
Also alot of people on the waitting list for season ticekt holders already go to TFC games.The waitting list makes some people think that there are 20,000 TFC fans at the game and 10,000 more on the waitting list but actually theres 10,000 fans on the waitting list but thousands of them are already at the TFC games buying single tickets. I know a few guys who couldn't get season tickets so now they just buy singles to almost every single game, once they get season tickets question is there more fans who are gonna buy there old single tickets?

UltraSuperMegaMo
10-19-2008, 12:01 AM
Why not a modest north end stand?

The point about the overlap between the waiting list and the people attending the game on single game tickets is a well made point - it’s the first time I ever seen anyone make it.

GuelphStorm2007
10-19-2008, 12:05 AM
If they do expand which I think will H appen in maybe 3 years time. They should put another deck on the east stand fill in corners, and build a north stand. That should be enough for 10000 more seats. which will make the capacity at 30, 500.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-19-2008, 12:06 AM
Also alot of people on the waitting list for season ticekt holders already go to TFC games.The waitting list makes some people think that there are 20,000 TFC fans at the game and 10,000 more on the waitting list but actually theres 10,000 fans on the waitting list but thousands of them are already at the TFC games buying single tickets. I know a few guys who couldn't get season tickets so now they just buy singles to almost every single game, once they get season tickets question is there more fans who are gonna buy there old single tickets?

Some marketing on the part of MLSE would really help here. I know a lot of people who want to go to TFC games but do not because they assume that there are no tickets available. People need to know that, despite games being sold out, there are still single-game tickets for sale.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-19-2008, 12:07 AM
Although scalping is a big problem, I think you're giving them too much credit. In my buddies section there's a few people who were regulars and just stopped showing up. Not everyone share's the same enthusiasm as the minority on this board.

To simply not show up is a waste of tickets. At the very least, just give the tickets to charity!

Shakes McQueen
10-19-2008, 12:57 AM
I think upgrading to 25,000 - 27,000 would be a good investment for maybe 4-5 years down the road.

In the meantime, I'd like to see them a) fill in the corners, b) put a roof around the entire thing, and c) make it more of a real pro sports stadium, and less a set of varsity bleachers with washrooms, and frigging prawns. :D

- Scott

nascarguy
10-19-2008, 08:19 AM
it's in the works it's all up to the city to give the ok .. Think if we make bmo hold more poeple that is just going to make the cfl want to come move in more

james
10-19-2008, 07:15 PM
To simply not show up is a waste of tickets. At the very least, just give the tickets to charity!

ya, but alot of people do waste some of them. People go on holidays or cant make it to some games for whatever reason. But i really wish they just gave them back to the club so they can re-sell them rather then just waste them!

Super
10-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Put a roof on the south-end and you'll have 3-5 times the volume coming from the supporters.

Detroit_TFC
10-19-2008, 07:33 PM
I admit I wasn't able to come to all the home games, but I didn't have any problem selling my tickets to fellow STHs sitting next to me. To see so many empty seats yesterday just puzzles me.

OneLoveOneEric
10-19-2008, 07:38 PM
Way too soon for major expansion. Several reasons for this, but for me the biggest one is price. From my conversations with the FO, MSE view seats at BMO as incredibly underpriced right now. I've seen a 20% increase in my seat price over 2 years. That's before we get grass, or a DP. The MLSE business plan, which I think was the correct thing for them to do, was "get 'em in the seats at any cost, then adjust the price". That's what's happening now. Over the next several years, tickets will continue to increase in price to line up better with the Toronto market. I'm not saying Leafs prices, but they're going to go up a lot. This will severely trim down interest in tickets, IMO, unless either TFC become contenders for the league, or the league itself becomes a much more impressive game. IMO, both will actually have to happen to support the current level of demand at significantly higher prices. Just my opinion, but I'm not pulling these thoughts out of mid-air.
My 2 cents.

OneLoveOneEric
10-19-2008, 07:40 PM
I admit I wasn't able to come to all the home games, but I didn't have any problem selling my tickets to fellow STHs sitting next to me. To see so many empty seats yesterday just puzzles me.

Because people here for the most part are die hard, and assume everyone is. NHL season has started, NFL has started, european football leagues are on TV, and 95% of the public had written off TFC's season long before this game. Many here will blame it on scalpers, but the truth, as far as I can see, is that people had simply tuned out by yesterday.

Cashcleaner
10-20-2008, 01:18 AM
Let's remember that even if the club doesn't sell-out for regular season games, it's always good to have additional seats for play-offs, friendlies, and Canadian team matches.

The more I think, of it the more 25,000 sounds like the sweet spot to me when you consider all of that and the value of high-demand.

Shakes McQueen
10-20-2008, 02:28 AM
Another idea, but I'd also like to see them add a terrace somewhere for supporters, instead of having BMO be an all-seater. Trying to stand around those shitty little plastic seats can be awkward, and they'd be able to cram more people into the same square footage, equalling more money.

For that matter, just tear out the seats in the south end :D

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
10-20-2008, 02:36 AM
The more I think, of it the more 25,000 sounds like the sweet spot to me when you consider all of that and the value of high-demand.

I think it could probably be higher, if you consider that the current waiting list is (According to numbers given by MLSE), anywhere from 9,000 to 13,000 people. Now, it's important to note that figure is just single people who want season tickets - it doesnt' even account for how many tickets they want each.

I'd sooner have them add to BMO's capacity, than increase the price of tickets on existing STH's. I think 25,000 is probably the low-end of the "sweet spot" for BMO, but my guess is probably up around 28,000.

With that in mind, I doubt we will see any change for a couple of more years, while MLSE waits to make sure this franchise isn't just a passing fad in the city.

- Scott

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
10-20-2008, 06:48 AM
I'd rather see the corners filled first before anything major like a second deck on the east side. Also I think part of the pull for TFC is the fact that there's such a back log of tickets. As it sounds right now there's always 1000+ empty seats at every game (regardless of the announced sell outs).. I think if we expanded to 30000 you'd really noticed the holes in the stands.

I'd hate to see this at BMO

http://tfcsupporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/img_1075-800.jpg

there was only about 12000..at this one..so it would hardly look like this!..But i know what your saying...

Id rather see a the north ebd have seats ....and a seconed level in the southend after that...

To have the view of the city line disapear with another level on the east side... that would suk!

we are ready for another 5000 seats..and thats it!...25000 would be a great start

mednus
10-20-2008, 07:32 AM
.

To have the view of the city line disapear with another level on the east side... that would suk!



As a Non season Ticket holder on the waiting list I have sat almost everywhere in the stadium. Why care so much about the city skyline? When sitting on the west side we looked at the skyline for about 30 seconds before each match! The rest of the time EYES ON THE FIELD. Seriously do you think in major stadiums (or minor ones for that matter) around the world supporters of the team give two sh*ts about the Skyline?

OneLoveOneEric
10-20-2008, 08:49 AM
^^^I certainly don't.

Luanda
10-20-2008, 09:40 AM
Sometime time ago, there was a post with someone's rendition of an upgraded/expanded BMO, that included a roof throughout. It really looked good.
Can anyone upload it again?

rocker
10-20-2008, 10:00 AM
As a Non season Ticket holder on the waiting list I have sat almost everywhere in the stadium. Why care so much about the city skyline? When sitting on the west side we looked at the skyline for about 30 seconds before each match! The rest of the time EYES ON THE FIELD. Seriously do you think in major stadiums (or minor ones for that matter) around the world supporters of the team give two sh*ts about the Skyline?

the last person we're gonna contact for stadium expansion opinions is you. You shoulda got season's tickets earlier, instead of jumping on the bandwagon now. If they expand to the southend, maybe you'll get your chance to get seasons. But for now, your opinion sounds like angry sour grapes.

i had my nephew at the game in the first season and we sat in the upper deck west side, and he LOVED being able to see the city skyline. but i guess he's just a little shit, so it doesn't matter right?? ;) We should just ruin the view because buddy here needs seasons tickets cuz he came late to TFC. hahahhaah

I don't see anything wrong with keeping the nice view. There are expansion options that can get the stadium to 25000 seats without having to expand the east side. The east side is also the worst side to expand because you get the sun in your eyes the whole game. A roof won't be big enough to make a difference over there, since the sun is in the west.

anyhow, I see a south end and north end expansion before i see east side expansion. So it's a moot point.
the east side expansion would be the most difficult and most expensive.
The north end expansion would be the most ideal. They could add 2000 more seats there.
Southend expansion currently has the space. And they can add more private boxes extending from the current ones.

Going above 25000 seats is dangerous, in my opinion.

joel
10-20-2008, 10:16 AM
the east side stand wont be expeanding..its clear from the design they took it as high as they could without bloking the skyline..it is not design to be built on like the south and north sides when you compare it to the west side.

Kurt
10-20-2008, 03:59 PM
i had my nephew at the game in the first season and we sat in the upper deck west side, and he LOVED being able to see the city skyline. but i guess he's just a little shit, so it doesn't matter right?? ;) We should just ruin the view because buddy here needs seasons tickets cuz he came late to TFC. hahahhaah



sorry to break it to you but MLSE doesnt give a shit about anything but money(please see leaf ticket prices). Were going to lose the view eventually. ALSO, to say that because someone doesnt have season tickets means that they're coming late to TFC is a little retarded. I know many a "fan" who have tickets b/c it was a fashionable buy and b/c they were financial able at the time, not because they are die hard supporters. How do you know this guy hasnt been following the team from its beginning?

The Oz
10-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Expansions:
Fill in corners
GET RID OF THE FUCKING BEER GARDEN and kindly puts seats in their stead
(optional) second tier to south or east side, preferably the east, maybe both eventually
roof

those two right there are like a couple thousand, if you really wanted to add more with the second tier(s) that would get you between 25K-30K which i think is perfect, i dont think tfc should really go above that until the mls gets actually really big and i mean as a league. this will prolly not happen for a while.

problems to be rectified:
fucking scalpers

David_Oliveira
10-21-2008, 12:13 AM
I have an idea on expansion to the north that could keep the beer garden there. Build around it ala this
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/picture.php?albumid=162&pictureid=937

james
10-21-2008, 01:01 AM
the last person we're gonna contact for stadium expansion opinions is you. You shoulda got season's tickets earlier, instead of jumping on the bandwagon now. If they expand to the southend, maybe you'll get your chance to get seasons. But for now, your opinion sounds like angry sour grapes.

i had my nephew at the game in the first season and we sat in the upper deck west side, and he LOVED being able to see the city skyline. but i guess he's just a little shit, so it doesn't matter right?? ;) We should just ruin the view because buddy here needs seasons tickets cuz he came late to TFC. hahahhaah

I don't see anything wrong with keeping the nice view. There are expansion options that can get the stadium to 25000 seats without having to expand the east side. The east side is also the worst side to expand because you get the sun in your eyes the whole game. A roof won't be big enough to make a difference over there, since the sun is in the west.

anyhow, I see a south end and north end expansion before i see east side expansion. So it's a moot point.
the east side expansion would be the most difficult and most expensive.
The north end expansion would be the most ideal. They could add 2000 more seats there.
Southend expansion currently has the space. And they can add more private boxes extending from the current ones.

Going above 25000 seats is dangerous, in my opinion.

All tho my wish would be to expand to the South End, and add a North End, and just add a roof all the way around. But the truth is that apparently plans for when they first built BMO was that if there was ever to be expansion in the stadium the East stand was built so it would be the easiest to expand on. From day 1 that had plans to make east stand bigger before adding to any other stand at BMO.

james
10-21-2008, 01:05 AM
As a Non season Ticket holder on the waiting list I have sat almost everywhere in the stadium. Why care so much about the city skyline? When sitting on the west side we looked at the skyline for about 30 seconds before each match! The rest of the time EYES ON THE FIELD. Seriously do you think in major stadiums (or minor ones for that matter) around the world supporters of the team give two sh*ts about the Skyline?

me personally i wouldn't care to much about the skyline since i can't see it from my seat. But i think you would be suprised how many bran new baseball and NFL stadiums are built in a certain shape or angle so that the skyline of the city can been seen. There is loads of them....so i beleive the skyline does have some effect to people!

greatwhitenorf
10-21-2008, 01:41 AM
Posted this before and happy to do it again.

Mayor David Miller personally stated to a group that I was a part of earlier this summer, that BMO Field will be expanded by 5,000 seats through the addition of a second tier on the east side. He was clear and unequivocal about it. 5,000 seats. East side.

Wouldn't get drawn into discussion on any other form of expansion, i.e., south or north ends. Got all wobbly when we brought up the issue of a grass field.

Do you think he's hinting that this sort of expansion would be undertaken so that the stadium doesn't close any options about hosting the Argos?.

mednus
10-21-2008, 08:56 AM
the last person we're gonna contact for stadium expansion opinions is you. You shoulda got season's tickets earlier, instead of jumping on the bandwagon now. If they expand to the southend, maybe you'll get your chance to get seasons. But for now, your opinion sounds like angry sour grapes.

i had my nephew at the game in the first season and we sat in the upper deck west side, and he LOVED being able to see the city skyline. but i guess he's just a little shit, so it doesn't matter right?? ;) We should just ruin the view because buddy here needs seasons tickets cuz he came late to TFC. hahahhaah


You as so right! I should of gotten season tickets in the beginning when I had the chance! But at the time I was not sure how many matches I could get to (I live 2 hours away) and to be honest I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend that kind of money [4 Seats] (sorry Guys I love to see the supporters section but like to sit midfield) on a unknown quantity.

That being said my family (4) have been to 6 league games both years and both Canadian Championship games this year. So yes I would like season tickets because it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to support this team than it is now! And I wouldn't have to hear complaining that we are not going this week!

My now 11 year old son has been to all those games and though the CN tower was "cool" , he also cared more for what was on the field (yelling and chanting at the players not the skyline)!

Rocker be happy you did buy season tickets when you did, but there is absolutely no reason to be an @ss about your good fortune and foresight!

T_Mizz
10-21-2008, 05:34 PM
I remember this topic was mentioned earlier in the year when I believe it was ricard peddie of perhaps the director of Business operations for TFC, not Paul B, the other guy was on the radio and he said that when they do projections for waiting lists they do something like each person on the waiting list accounts for 2 or 3 people who'd plant their asses in the stands so that would bring us up to 16000 + (13000*3)= 55000 or more conservatively 16000 + (13000*2) = 42000 these are still very high but that is the way MLSE sees it and they're the billion dollar sports-business geniuses so I say we trust them. Plus I'm sure the city of Toronto, Province of Ontario, Federal Government of Canada, CSA, wouldn't mind having a Fifa 5-star stadium capable of hosting a world cup final.

WATP
10-21-2008, 09:03 PM
I'm willing to bet we'll see TFC in a new stadium instead of a 25k seat BMO.

NF-FC
10-21-2008, 09:14 PM
I'm willing to bet we'll see TFC in a new stadium instead of a 25k seat BMO.

based on?

gmacpheetfc
10-21-2008, 09:17 PM
Where When How????

WATP
10-21-2008, 09:21 PM
based on?

Based on an account rep (who will remain nameless) telling me so at my renewal last year. Credibility? Who knows. But I know there were a few others that heard the same thing.

IMO - Owned and operated by MLSE. Location - I wouldn't even dare guess as we already have a great one.

But yea.. just a hunch. Plus I like making high odds bets :D

TFC Cityboy
10-21-2008, 09:51 PM
if you want a nice view of the downtown, go stand on Bathurst bridge.Yes it's a nice view from the West stand, but I'd like to think that even the prawns in that stand would divert their eyes downwards occasionally.
:)

egoodwin
10-21-2008, 10:13 PM
if you want a nice view of the downtown, go stand on Bathurst bridge.Yes it's a nice view from the West stand, but I'd like to think that even the prawns in that stand would divert their eyes downwards occasionally.
:)
it's part of the stadium's character...

Cashcleaner
10-22-2008, 12:17 AM
^ Gotta agree with you on that. Say what you will about the facilities and the structure itself, but you gotta admit BMO Field is in the right place with a terrific view of the city and waterfront. It has character by the boatload - unlike most other stadiums in the league.

nascarguy
10-22-2008, 03:40 AM
if you want a nice view of the downtown, go stand on Bathurst bridge.Yes it's a nice view from the West stand, but I'd like to think that even the prawns in that stand would divert their eyes downwards occasionally.
:)
yeah we re not there to see the city

Oldtimer
10-22-2008, 07:30 AM
Another idea, but I'd also like to see them add a terrace somewhere for supporters, instead of having BMO be an all-seater. Trying to stand around those shitty little plastic seats can be awkward, and they'd be able to cram more people into the same square footage, equalling more money.

For that matter, just tear out the seats in the south end :D

- Scott

For National Team games, FIFA requires all seaters. So terraces aren't going to happen to our "National Soccer Stadium."

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2008, 08:20 AM
Yeah I don't know how the beer garden makes that much more than a stand that could hold more thatn twice as many devoted people. But if Miller adds tier 2 to the east that's fine with me. I don't want to see empty seats any game in the future.