Expansion bids are In...

[Pronto]

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20081015&content_id=196067&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

i would think Montreal is in nomatter what but the second team?

[GeorgeB]

suprised new york didnt get a bid in.

[werewolf]

Miami or St. Louis

[FluSH]

Miami... that Barca deal makes it a shoe-in

Miami Roadtrips... here we go =P

[Redcoe15]

suprised new york didnt get a bid in.
I bet the Borough Boys are on suicide watch! :D

[Redcoe15]

Should be considered:

-Montreal
-Vancouver
-St. Louis
-Portland

Who should NOT be considered:
-Ottawa
-Miami
-Atlanta

[FluSH]

I will take any of the two except for Atlanta...

Here are my choices in order of preference:

1. Portland
2. Miami
3. Montreal
4. Ottawa
5. Vancouver
6. St.Louis
7. Atlanta

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Hopefully Montreal and Vancouver, but i doubt Van will be in without their stadium, as a result i see St Louis or Portland (hopefully).
The rest seem to be crap (as discussed in a billion other threads) to me

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I will take any of the two except for Atlanta...

Here are my choices in order of preference:

1. Portland
2. Miami
3. Montreal
4. Ottawa
5. Vancouver
6. St.Louis
7. Atlanta

Really?
Portland and Miami over Montreal?
How come?

[FluSH]

Really?
Portland and Miami over Montreal?
How come?


Support in Portland is bigger than all applicants... bar none. The Portland Timbers Army will bring a new element to MLS... away from the leagues quest for little leagues and soccer moms, and more towards supporters.

Miami with the new Barca partnership changes the dynamics of the equation. You will have a Futbol experienced Management team with possible ties and partnerships in Europe. It will really open the hinges of MLS abroad in my opinion and maybe more younger INTL players might consider MLS as an option.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Fair enough.
I guess i dont doubt that barca can put together a good organization, i just doubt the support is there.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Dont ya think that Mont has the same support/organization (granted a few thousand less) than Portland?

[icecoldbeer]

suprised new york didnt get a bid in.

i'm happy about that!

[Redcoe15]

Miami with the new Barca partnership changes the dynamics of the equation. You will have a Futbol experienced Management team with possible ties and partnerships in Europe. It will really open the hinges of MLS abroad in my opinion and maybe more younger INTL players might consider MLS as an option.
In other words, MLS will become the new American Hockey League. :prrr:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

my choices in Order:

Miami
Ottawa
St Louis
Portland
Atlanta
Montreal
Vancouver.

[FluSH]

Dont ya think that Mont has the same support/organization (granted a few thousand less) than Portland?


Hell no... Portland trumps over Montreal...bad. Besides, we also need to look at the MLS from a business perspective. They need the TV ratings... not here but in the U.S. This is a big issue for the league... Montreal vs Toronto will NOT be hot ticket in the U.S.... in particular for soccer.

[troy1982]

So MLS has recieved 7 bids

Atlanta
Miami
Montreal
Ottawa
Portland
St. Louis
Vancouver

and i would say 5 of them are strong bids. So does anyone think MLS should/would allow 4 teams instead of 2 in the next round of expansion.

My 4 canidates are

St. Louis
Montreal
Vancouver
Portland

I am a fan of expansion and would like the league to expand faster rather than slower and so i would love 4 instead of 2 teams. I have never bought into the idea that the league would hurt itself in anyway if it took the faster root. I think 4 teams in one year would generate alot of buzz/press throughout north america aswell and the new teams would also be rivals to many teams.

Rivals:

Imagine in 2011

Toronto v Montreal
Seattle v Vancouver v Portland
Kansas City v St Louis
St. Louis v Chicago

plus Montreal v Portland v Vancouver v St Louis

[rocker]

Montreal helps TFC in the Canadian TV ratings... I know everyone talks about TV in the states, but Garber talked to CBC at the all-star game, I believe, about how Canadian expansion might help TFC, which is turn helps the league.

I think Garber is looking at Canada as a bit of an untapped market. If his SUM Marketing group can start making inroads here, that's money for the league.

TV ratings in the US are important, but this is still a league with low-ratings anyways, and the gate revenues are more important. Wherever you can pack them in, that's probably where they'd want to go.

Anyhow, given that 3 of the 7 applicants are Canadian, we can pretty much assume 1 Canadian side will get in within the next two available spots. TFC would love this.
My belief is Garber will choose 1 Canadian and 1 America city in this next round of expansion, and then 1 Canadian and 1 American in the subsequent round. This gives Americans something, while also setting up that Canadian market.

McClown made a good point today (confirmed by the esteemed Dan Schulman) that Atlanta and Miami are two of the worst sports cities in terms of support in America. They might exist in important TV markets, but if nobody cares, then the TV ratings will be shit anyways.

[canadian_bhoy]

I would bet a LOT of money that Miami is getting one of these teams. There is no way that Barca would put themselves out there like this only to be denied.

I would say that this Atlanta bid has a good chance of getting in due to the strength of their ownership (Falcons)

Ottawa, St. Louis and Portland all probably be next on the list with Montreal and Vancouver dragging up the rear.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Montreal helps TFC in the Canadian TV ratings... I know everyone talks about TV in the states, but Garber talked to CBC at the all-star game, I believe, about how Canadian expansion might help TFC, which is turn helps the league.

I think Garber is looking at Canada as a bit of an untapped market. If his SUM Marketing group can start making inroads here, that's money for the league.

TV ratings in the US are important, but this is still a league with low-ratings anyways, and the gate revenues are more important. Wherever you can pack them in, that's probably where they'd want to go.

Anyhow, given that 3 of the 7 applicants are Canadian, we can pretty much assume 1 Canadian side will get in within the next two available spots. TFC would love this.
My belief is Garber will choose 1 Canadian and 1 America city in this next round of expansion, and then 1 Canadian and 1 American in the subsequent round. This gives Americans something, while also setting up that Canadian market.

was thinking this too.
If we had both (which i dont think we will but...) we would without a doubt have national coverage of the sport. Id still be willing to bet with a second team there will be national coverage on a national channel.

[FluSH]

Montreal helps TFC in the Canadian TV ratings... I know everyone talks about TV in the states, but Garber talked to CBC at the all-star game, I believe, about how Canadian expansion might help TFC, which is turn helps the league.

I think this is Garber just playing the camera... what else is he supposed to tell CBC? We took a nice gamble, but that's it?



I think Garber is looking at Canada as a bit of an untapped market. If his SUM Marketing group can start making inroads here, that's money for the league.

There is far greater opportunity in the U.S. with alot more teams that also need help at risk. Tapping 1% in the Canadian market vs Tapping 1% in the U.S. maket? The populations alone speak volumes.

[FluSH]

I would bet a LOT of money that Miami is getting one of these teams. There is no way that Barca would put themselves out there like this only to be denied.



Exactly... Can you imagine the League looking at Barca for further friendly games in the U.S. after closing the door in their face? It ain't going to happen.

[Axeman]

My choices in order:
Ottawa
and who ever else it doesn't matter
(Slight Bias):D

[Axeman]

Support in Portland is bigger than all applicants... bar none. The Portland Timbers Army will bring a new element to MLS... away from the leagues quest for little leagues and soccer moms, and more towards supporters.

Agreed, It shocks me how much support Portland has for the team especially the Portland Timbers Army, I think they draw close to 9000 per game or something like that, atleast they did a couple of years back.
Alot of Hatians in Miami too, their very passionate about soccer.

[Lucky Strike]

- As long as Montreal is one of the teams that make it in, I'll be satisfied.
- I don't want to see Atlanta or Ottawa.
- Of the rest I haven't mentioned, my preference is: Vancouver, St. Louis, Miami, Portland.
- In terms of who's most likely to get in of the above four: Miami, St. Louis, Portland, Vancouver.

[Axeman]

All that being said I doubt if MLS would put a team in Portland given their 'Big City' bias (and finding a billionaire owner to by into it bias), but they would if they knew what was good for them.

[Pronto]

Hell no... Portland trumps over Montreal...bad. Besides, we also need to look at the MLS from a business perspective. They need the TV ratings... not here but in the U.S. This is a big issue for the league... Montreal vs Toronto will NOT be hot ticket in the U.S.... in particular for soccer.

who cares about the U.S.... a move like this helps Canadian Soccer by puting it on another level... TV ratings are already pretty good for TFC.

having two MLS Acadamies in Canada can help the CSA. In the long run also helps the League

[SLBuu]

if Miami gets a team i know where im getting my tattoo!!!

[james]

Man you guys are crazy. Heres how the order of deserving a team should go:

1) Montreal-got the highest attendence in USL and a stadium ready to go

2) Portland - got good supporters and just need to renovate there stadium.

3) Vancouver - have had a franchise for over 30 years and have a multi culture city and are in Canada so you know they will get good support. They just need a new stadium, BC Place is to big

4) miami- with barca they will be rich. If they build a stadium in the city i think they will get good support. If they in the suburbs then dont even bother giving them another team

5) Ottawa- they are a small market but they did support the Under-20 matches in that city well.Maybe they could do good attendence. I dont see them making much of an impact of MLS tho.

6) St.Louis - got no stadium, they probably would build the stadium in the burds if they ever get a stadium. It will be shit. And i dont see them having any better support them Kansas.


oh and Atlanta.....hahaha, fuck off, no way

[Christoff]

My guess, and no one is going to like this, is it will be Miami and Portland. The east coast market in my mind is a bigger one for football, but I think they will pick one from east and one from west, so if not Portland the best bet will be Vancouver.
Overall who id like to join would be Miami and Montreal, both for the "real" football team management of what will be Miami and the Battle of Canada with Montreal, I smell another RedvsBlue rivalry.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

- As long as Montreal is one of the teams that make it in, I'll be satisfied.
- I don't want to see Atlanta or Ottawa.
- Of the rest I haven't mentioned, my preference is: Vancouver, St. Louis, Miami, Portland.
- In terms of who's most likely to get in of the above four: Miami, St. Louis, Portland, Vancouver.\

god Noto Montreal.....Ottawa first before Montreal Or Vancouver,,,

[Pronto]

one bad thing is they already did have a team in Miami, once upon a time in MLS... i hope if they do get a team again they can stay longer then 4yrs...

[Roogsy]

Miami... that Barca deal makes it a shoe-in

Miami Roadtrips... here we go =P

OMG...those are going to be legendary.

And trouble!

I foresee divorces!

[ben_vw]

6) St.Louis - got no stadium, they probably would build the stadium in the burds if they ever get a stadium. It will be shit. And i dont see them having any better support them Kansas.

St. Louis was actually second behind Philly for the 2010 expansion spot. They already have a proposed stadium that would break ground if they are awarded the expansion spot, though, you are right, it is planned for a burb.

They are definitely ahead of Ottawa though.

[AL-MO]

OMG...those are going to be legendary.

And trouble!

I foresee divorces!

And expensive! :yum:

[AL-MO]

\

god Noto Montreal.....Ottawa first before Montreal Or Vancouver,,,

Mighty you make sense in one thread, then in another make no sense at all. You can't serious be thinking this? Ottawa doesn't have a team at all. I guess the Fury, but VanCity and MTL both have USL 1 franchises!

[james]

St. Louis was actually second behind Philly for the 2010 expansion spot. They already have a proposed stadium that would break ground if they are awarded the expansion spot, though, you are right, it is planned for a burb.

They are definitely ahead of Ottawa though.

probably ahead of Ottawa, but still fuck St.Louis! :D

[Roogsy]

if Miami gets a team i know where im getting my tattoo!!!

Kat Von D is in LA now... *drool*

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/AQUA/24-472.jpg

[Vindaloo]

MLS wants SSS. If your looking at just the stadium then Vancouver has just as much chance as the other two, if not better. At least they have a plan to move into an SSS.

If you look at history and fanbase, Van and Port are similar but Van is the oldest club in North America, the most successful, and with a continuous history going back to 1974. No one else can say that. It has one of the top Residency programmes and grassroots investment. To deny Vancouver a franchise and hand Miami one because they have flashy Barca injecting a quick fix, is disgusting.


- Portland will share a Field Turf pitch with their university football team. This needs to be paid for with tax dollars. 20k seats.

- Miami looks like they will share a Field Turf pitch with a university football team. 45k seats.

- Vancouver - Temporary stadium with Field Turf(likely) shared with CFL. Vancouver is the only one that have said they will be temporarily at BC Place. 62k Their focus has always been a SSS privately funded though.

- Seattle - As a comparison and double standard. Permanent Field Turf stadium shared with NFL. 67k seats.

[ben_vw]

probably ahead of Ottawa, but still fuck St.Louis! :D

Haha. If it's not Toronto, fuck em! ;)

[james]

MLS wants SSS. If your looking at just the stadium then Vancouver has just as much chance as the other two, if not better. At least they have a plan to move into an SSS.

If you look at history and fanbase, Van and Port are similar but Van is the oldest club in North America, the most successful, and with a continuous history going back to 1974. No one else can say that. It has one of the top Residency programmes and grassroots investment. To deny Vancouver a franchise and hand Miami one because they have flashy Barca injecting a quick fix, is disgusting.


- Portland will share a Field Turf pitch with their university football team. This needs to be paid for with tax dollars. 20k seats.

- Miami looks like they will share a Field Turf pitch with a university football team. 45k seats.

- Vancouver - Temporary stadium with Field Turf(likely) shared with CFL. Vancouver is the only one that have said they will be temporarily at BC Place. 62k Their focus has always been a SSS privately funded though.

- Seattle - As a comparison and double standard. Permanent Field Turf stadium shared with NFL. 67k seats.

Portland currently play in a baseball stadium that fits 20k. The basball team is planning on moving out in 2011 to get there new baseball park. From what i herd Portland plan to take over that stadium and renovate it to 25k and it will be a SSS!

[Roogsy]

I can't believe people are taking Ottawa seriously.

Wow.

Cities of millions can't sustain teams...you think a city of 500k will?

[Pronto]

Man you guys are crazy. Heres how the order of deserving a team should go:

1) Montreal-got the highest attendence in USL and a stadium ready to go

2) Portland - got good supporters and just need to renovate there stadium.

3) Vancouver - have had a franchise for over 30 years and have a multi culture city and are in Canada so you know they will get good support. They just need a new stadium, BC Place is to big

4) miami- with barca they will be rich. If they build a stadium in the city i think they will get good support. If they in the suburbs then dont even bother giving them another team

5) Ottawa- they are a small market but they did support the Under-20 matches in that city well.Maybe they could do good attendence. I dont see them making much of an impact of MLS tho.

6) St.Louis - got no stadium, they probably would build the stadium in the burds if they ever get a stadium. It will be shit. And i dont see them having any better support them Kansas.


oh and Atlanta.....hahaha, fuck off, no way

totally agree with you when it comes down to Atlanta hahaha. the thing i would change would be Van with Miami

thing about Portland is do they have money to fix there Stadium or would they have to make a new one to make MLS happy?

[james]

I can't believe people are taking Ottawa seriously.

Wow.

Cities of millions can't sustain teams...you think a city of 500k will?

well heres a comparison

Ottawa City 850,000......metro area 1.4 million
St.Louis City 353,000.....metro area 2.8 Million
Montreal city 1.6 million.....metro 4.2 million
Miami City - 409,000......metro 5.4 million
Portland City - 568,000.....Metro area 2.1 million

[kodiakTFC]

Montreal averages a higher attendance then a few MLS teams, it is ridiculous they don't have a team all ready! That is not even mentioning the stadium they all ready have and the pretty great location its in. Montreal has a lot of soccer fans but very few follow the Impact just because its considered a bush league. If Montreal got a team they could average 22k a game without a problem, I'd even guess more towards 26k.

[kodiakTFC]

1. Montreal - As most of you mentioned they have a stadium and have a ridiculous USL attendance of 13k (next highest is 8000)!

2. Portland - I like what I've seen from their supporters and they have absolutely no competition during the season from local teams. Good rivalry options and it looks like a great small market.

3. Miami - The Barca thing will make the team succeed on its own. If they could get some academy and older players, they would destroy the league and be a huge success.

4. Vancouver - I like the idea of more Canadian teams but their attendance is rather small. However, the money is there and there are easily enough people in the area to make this a success. I HATE THE FACT THEY WANT TO USE BC PLACE!! It will kill the passion and hurt the team in its infant stages; totally a bad idea.

5. St.Louis - I know its a soccer hot bed but to me it seems like another Colorado. A stadium in bum f**k no where, with boring fans and 12k average attendance.

6. Ottawa - While I love the idea of another team in Canada, Ottawa is a place where sport teams go to die. I would move them to #4/5 however if they moved the new stadium from Kanata to the downtown sector. Kanata IS FAR and wont help bringing some new-semi interested fans.

7. Atlanta - seriously? wtf?

[james]

if Miami gets a team i know where im getting my tattoo!!!

apparently the people who are actually on the show are very very rarely actually in the shop. SO if you went to a get a Tattoo there then you would get it from just a normal dude you would see at any regular tattoo parlour.

[rocker]

there's definitely no perfect bid of the 7. each one has at least one negative, depending on your perspective.

[ben_vw]

Just as a sidenote,

I have a poll on my blog.

Which Canadian city do you want in MLS in 2011?

www.tfcconnected.com

[Dirk Diggler]

there's definitely no perfect bid of the 7. each one has at least one negative, depending on your perspective.

Aside from that fact that Montreal is in Canada, they really don't have a negative the way I see it.

[rocker]

Aside from that fact that Montreal is in Canada, they really don't have a negative the way I see it.

yep. I agree. But to Americans (go read Bigsoccer) that's a major one. This is, afterall, the league designed to help American soccer grow. that's why i said above each bid has a problem, depending on one's point of view.
If Montreal was an American city, their bid would be perfect.

[billyfly]

I wonder if the recent dip by the CAD will affect VAN and MTL bids. The time that CAD spent at par or over with the USD was pivotal for the NHL's profitability. The lower Loonie could put a hamper on the Canadian bids either from the standpoint of the MLS or the Canadian bids and the expansion fee. Not sure about this just a thought.

[james]

does anyone know when they are gonna anounce the 2 expansion teams for 2011????

[ensco]

nobody wants to face the facts re Montreal and Vancouver, but they are in very tough, and I don't think either one will get in

it is going to be very hard to stop Miami and Atlanta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_Area#Top_25

[Axeman]

Any Canadian team playing in MLS would benefit Canadian soccer. Period.
MLS has the best players in NA and would it not help our young players to have an option of playing pro without moving to europe(to say nothing of the work permit).
Also they would be playing full time in the best NA league and with quality players.
I dont give a fuck about MLS being a better American League, I want to see MLS make Canadians better players and I dont think you can dispute MLS has done that with TFC. To say more Canadian teams are not worthy over Portland and Miami maybe true (and fair)but for Canadians it will only make us better the more MLS teams we have. So Fuck Miami, Go Montreal, Vancouver, and yes Ottawa!

[forza_tfc]

Definitely: Miami (who's gonna say no to Barca)

Probably: St. Louis (waited patiently) or Portland (fans & rivalry w/ Seattle)

Unlikely: Montreal, Vancouver (next round for sure, US comes first), Atlanta (good owner, soccer market?)

Definitely not: Ottawa (fairweather fans)

[Nodoubtguy]

I'd take any 2 except Atlanta.....would like 2 CDN teams, but don't see it happening

[Axeman]

Definitely: Miami (who's gonna say no to Barca)

Probably: St. Louis (waited patiently) or Portland (fans & rivalry w/ Seattle)

Unlikely: Montreal, Vancouver (next round for sure, US comes first), Atlanta (good owner, soccer market?)

Definitely not: Ottawa (fairweather fans)

You try having a CFL team that's Horrible for 20 years and owners that turn the stands into a peep show and still draw over 22,000 fans.
Oh that's right you're American you can afford that.
Not all Ottawa fans are Bandwagon jumpers.

[B45]

Ottawa fans are not all bandwagon jumpers...but most of them are...the city has a much longer list of pro sports problems than just the CFL.

1. The CFL. Yes, the Rough Riders were terrible and had idiot owners who ruined a proud franchise, eventually, after 20 years, it's not a surprise they stopped coming. However, the Renegades only lasted about 4 seasons...hardly a fair shake from the fans for the owners to build a team...too bad Gliebermans got involved at the end...it ended things.

2. Lacrosse. The Ottawa Rebel. Same league AND owners of the Toronto Rock who draw 14,000-17,000 every game at the ACC. They couldn't draw flies at SBP and fans complained it was too far so they moved down to the Civic Centre and still didn't draw. End of story.

3. Ottawa Lynx. Opened to rave reviews when baseball was big in 1992-1993 and were the Expos farm team and led the league in attendance. When they left town last year after a few subpar seasons they had dwindled their attendance average from 10,000 in 1993 to a league-low (by a mile) of around 1,500. The Ottawa Rapidz, an independent league team who replaced have gone bankrupt after just one year.

4. The Senators. How we forget that they went bankrupt only a few short years ago and couldn't sell out playoff games (except to Leafs fans) ad were drawing around 13,000 a game despite making the playoffs on a consistent basis. Granted, Eugene Melnyk bought the team and turned things around but even to this day some games won't sell out very quickly, if at all, including in the playoffs, although the are profitable now. (If you don't believe me check Capital Tickets, it will tell you how many seats remain for each game and some pretty impressive opponents are still not sold out).

5. The 67's had some very lean years but are now back on their feet thanks to Jeff Hunt (who is part of the new CFL group who is close to securing a stadium deal at Landsdowne Park).

So don't to be mean but Ottawa might only be ahead of Atlanta on this list. Melnyk is probably applying to get his foot in the door for future rounds but does Ottawa have enough people to support this team? Especially if the CFL returns and that seems likely. It's a crowded market with the Sens, CFL, 67's and Olympique (in Gatineau).

Oh and any population figure you want to give for Ottawa should deduct anything that includes Gatineau, it's a known fact they don't care to support Ottawa's teams so they won't start for MLS.

[greatwhitenorf]

Running up the periscope, I see the goal of building great rivalries as key foundation stones for MLS.

Portland would create an instant spark with Seattle - the Sounders' owner being of long-term mega importance - and set the stage for Vancouver's entry in a couple of more years. Give Vancouver more time and incentive to get the soccer stadium proposal sorted out. BC Place is not the answer.

Montreal has clearly distinguished itself as an organization to add and the rivalry with TFC will be mental. Garber and Co. will be wetting themselves. League and Canada Cup - Foragers Cup, whatever - games will all be major tussles. It also gives Ottawa a great situation to eventually merge into. The start of an all-Canadian division, maybe? A national TV deal with proper coverage will follow.

They need St. Louis to work, coz it will prop up KC, who are making the playoffs this year regardless of how much it costs to buy off the refs. And, being the gateway city, it helps set up future southern expansion with Atlanta, who are putting on quite the push.

Miami is hard to judge, lot of smoke and mirrors. Barca certainly seems to sex up the bid, but do Barca really need to work on boosting their image like this? And is the Miami bid really all that serious if it will fall apart at the first denial. Someone's fishing for a bargain here. Aren't foreign owners a big concern? And won't all them hurricanes being whipped up by global warming and pasteurizing play bloody hell with the MLS schedule? Nuh-uh. Not seeing it with this burg.

[Pronto]

does anyone know when they are gonna anounce the 2 expansion teams for 2011????

later this yr or early 09... check out this video Episode 74»

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Mighty you make sense in one thread, then in another make no sense at all. You can't serious be thinking this? Ottawa doesn't have a team at all. I guess the Fury, but VanCity and MTL both have USL 1 franchises!


Toronto didn;t really have a franchise before TFC. sorry Lynx fans its true so Ottawa could get a team going the way TFC did...Sorry but im not
positive about MTL and VAN being successful in this league, Vancouver lost a Lacrosse team, in a city where Lacrosse is big? Montreal lost the Expos and NLL Express. Ok Ottawa lost the roughriders, but they are not missed are they?

[Christoff]

You seem to have forgotten about the Ottawa Rebels? Ottawa doesn't have the base for the MLS, Montreal and Van have it, you use the TFC story, well TFC also had a pool of close to 9million people to find its fans, Ottawa has around 2. it doesnt make any sense at all to put a team in Ottawa before Montreal or Van.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

nobody wants to face the facts re Montreal and Vancouver, but they are in very tough, and I don't think either one will get in

it is going to be very hard to stop Miami and Atlanta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_Area#Top_25


outside of being canadian i dont think they are in that tough, they have supporters (Montreal having the most in the USL), an SSS and a plan for one (both stadiums, SSS and otherwise are downtown), organizations that know what they are doing, billionaires backing them, and the teams are doing well (Van won the USL, Impact in top 4 and playing well in the CL).

Few of the other options can say as much. Portland has a supported team with intentions of building a SSS and a millionaire backing them. Miami has Barca but no immediate intention of building an SSS, no immediate fan base and a background of failed expansion teams. Ottawa has plans for an SSS but thats debateable as the gov would haveto sign off on it and theres someone that wants to build a CFL stadium again, they do have financial support, but no immediate fanbase and a history of failed sports teams. St Louis has a history of footie but no plan for an SSS, no immediate fans, they do have some financial support but they have complained about how much it costs to get in now. Atlanta has money and none of the other things.

Honestly i think itll be one american team and one canadian, the MLS sees what TFC has done for the league.

I think itll be Portland and Montreal.
They will prob stretch to accept another 4 afterwards.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dont see them putting two teams in the west or the east either, for obvious reasons.

[Axeman]

Ottawa fans are not all bandwagon jumpers...but most of them are...the city has a much longer list of pro sports problems than just the CFL.

1. The CFL. Yes, the Rough Riders were terrible and had idiot owners who ruined a proud franchise, eventually, after 20 years, it's not a surprise they stopped coming. However, the Renegades only lasted about 4 seasons...hardly a fair shake from the fans for the owners to build a team...too bad Gliebermans got involved at the end...it ended things.

2. Lacrosse. The Ottawa Rebel. Same league AND owners of the Toronto Rock who draw 14,000-17,000 every game at the ACC. They couldn't draw flies at SBP and fans complained it was too far so they moved down to the Civic Centre and still didn't draw. End of story.

3. Ottawa Lynx. Opened to rave reviews when baseball was big in 1992-1993 and were the Expos farm team and led the league in attendance. When they left town last year after a few subpar seasons they had dwindled their attendance average from 10,000 in 1993 to a league-low (by a mile) of around 1,500. The Ottawa Rapidz, an independent league team who replaced have gone bankrupt after just one year.

4. The Senators. How we forget that they went bankrupt only a few short years ago and couldn't sell out playoff games (except to Leafs fans) ad were drawing around 13,000 a game despite making the playoffs on a consistent basis. Granted, Eugene Melnyk bought the team and turned things around but even to this day some games won't sell out very quickly, if at all, including in the playoffs, although the are profitable now. (If you don't believe me check Capital Tickets, it will tell you how many seats remain for each game and some pretty impressive opponents are still not sold out).

5. The 67's had some very lean years but are now back on their feet thanks to Jeff Hunt (who is part of the new CFL group who is close to securing a stadium deal at Landsdowne Park).

So don't to be mean but Ottawa might only be ahead of Atlanta on this list. Melnyk is probably applying to get his foot in the door for future rounds but does Ottawa have enough people to support this team? Especially if the CFL returns and that seems likely. It's a crowded market with the Sens, CFL, 67's and Olympique (in Gatineau).

Oh and any population figure you want to give for Ottawa should deduct anything that includes Gatineau, it's a known fact they don't care to support Ottawa's teams so they won't start for MLS.

Ok let me just say you're not wrong here but let me defend my position:

1)The crowds never stopped coming even when the Glibermans turned it into a peep show we regularly drew over 22,000. I dont know where people got the idea people stopped coming if you add the families that didn't want their kids going to a strip joint it would've made 30,000 easy.

2)Easy, Lacrosse sucks ass.

3)Granted the Lynx openned to great attendance figures but then turned into dwindling attendance, but alot of that had to do with that no players were staying with the team, if you think TFC had a revolving door of players look at the Lynx. Not to mention it was 2nd-tier. And I'm not gonna pretend that we're as big as TO, or even Mtl, we have trouble supporting a non-1st tier league, it's easier for a Halifax or Winnipeg to accept that. Like it or not it's the truth, it's Capital-City syndrome, but hardly makes us unsupportive.

4)You're right it took people awhile to come out to Senator games(well to sell-out anyway)but now they sell-out alot, but don't you think alot of that had to do with the high-tec boom in Kanata-West Ottawa which put alot of money in the average persons pockets and got them to the games in the first place, but still Hockey is grossly over-priced.

5)Jeff Hunt is a tremendous Owner(too bad he didn't have even more money) but Ottawa has always gone for good hockey at good prices and the lean years you speak of were probably before the Senators came to town and suddenly looked like a better option for your buck at the time.

As for including Gatineau in population figures you're absolutely right, they dont give a fuck about Ottawa, I wouldn't even defend that point.
I'm not trying to say I'm right and you're wrong, you make many good points and you're right not all Ottawa fans are loyal and devoted but I ask you to take what I say into consideration. Are we really that different that TO would be with less of a population, I doubt it.

[dupont]

Wow. Impressive expansion bids. I would say everyone has a chance aside from Atlanta and Ottawa.

I really hope Miami doesn't get a team because it's the lamest city on this continent. I'm worried that the Barcelona connection will get them in though.

[kodiakTFC]

The league should just add vancouver, montreal, portland, and miami all in 2011.

[Cashcleaner]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that Ottawa just might get a franchise and make a good go of it. Obviously, Montreal and Vancouver coming in would be cool, but I won't discount Ottawa just because of the other two cities.

[Luanda]

Everyone is assuming that only two will be accepted. But, given the circumstances, could there be 4 bids accepted, bringing the total number of teams to 20.

Montreal & Vancouver, as well as Portland & Miami.

Such a decision would solve a number of headaches for MLS.

[Tintin]

Everyone is assuming that only two will be accepted. But, given the circumstances, could there be 4 bids accepted, bringing the total number of teams to 20.

Montreal & Vancouver, as well as Portland & Miami.

Such a decision would solve a number of headaches for MLS.


Exactly. I think there will be four over 2 yers.

Year 1: Montreal and Portland

Year 2: Miami and St-Louis or Vancouver...

[Mark in Ottawa]

I see them going two expansions of two teams each.

Vancouver as champs of USL and with a long history and Montreal with their great support, SSS and champions league run have to be considered but it looks likely that only one will get an invite in round one. I still hold that if it was Montreal to move to MLS then Ottawa could take their USL spot and start on building a fan base. If the city responds (and I think they will) then future movement to MLS looks possible.

St. Louis & Portland would seem to be the front runners for the second spot but Miami with it's cash and professional backing clouds the picture. Atlanta is on the outside looking in.

[ensco]

All you people dismissing Atlanta with the snap of your fingers amaze me...

Do you realize who Arthur Blank is?
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Arthur-M-Blank_6Q6S.html

Before everyone goes off half-cocked about George Gilllett, recognize that he does what he does with borrowed money. Joey Saputo, even if he had access to all his dad's money, isn't in Blank's league either. And Kerfoot isn't even worth discussing in the same conversation.

And I haven't even mentioned that Atlanta is a critical US TV market.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

moneys fine but markets that have no history with soccer have been proven in the past to be poor supporters (ahem Columbus, KC) and Garber has said outright that he would prefer to follow the TFC formula. Im not dismissing it out right, i just think there are markets with better history etc etc that look to be in better position

[Oldtimer]

Garber said that Montreal's stadium doesn't meet MLS standards (not just capacity), so it's by no means a shoo in, although Gillette helps.

[brad]

I wonder how much the Barca brand will sway the decision in Miami's favor.

[Cashcleaner]

All you people dismissing Atlanta with the snap of your fingers amaze me...

Do you realize who Arthur Blank is?
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Arthur-M-Blank_6Q6S.html

Before everyone goes off half-cocked about George Gilllett, recognize that he does what he does with borrowed money. Joey Saputo, even if he had access to all his dad's money, isn't in Blank's league either. And Kerfoot isn't even worth discussing in the same conversation.

And I haven't even mentioned that Atlanta is a critical US TV market.

It should also be noted that last year an ownership group from Atlanta came to the execs at TFC for a consultation according to an inside source.

[rocker]

Saputo probably has a leg up on the stadium thing, along with Portland.
Every one of the 7 bids has the stadium plan as a major issue to varying degrees.
Saputo's is probably in the best shape because he has the land, and a new stadium in place that can be expanded (my only question is how far that expansion will go. His plan better have added a significant expansion portion, not just throw up another metal stand).

Atlanta -- no stadium, must build one
Miami -- no stadium, must build one, might share with a college at first
Ottawa -- no stadium, must build one, asking for public money to some degree
Vancouver -- no stadium, must renovate BC Place, maybe build an SSS 5-10 years down the road from now
Montreal -- stadium in place, must expand
Portland -- stadium in place, must renovate
St. Louis -- no stadium, must build one

[FluSH]

All you people dismissing Atlanta with the snap of your fingers amaze me...

Do you realize who Arthur Blank is?
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Arthur-M-Blank_6Q6S.html

Before everyone goes off half-cocked about George Gilllett, recognize that he does what he does with borrowed money. Joey Saputo, even if he had access to all his dad's money, isn't in Blank's league either. And Kerfoot isn't even worth discussing in the same conversation.

And I haven't even mentioned that Atlanta is a critical US TV market.


Atlanta = Strip Club Capital of the U.S.

If this was a proposal for StripperWorld I can see Arthur Blank winning hands down.

[FluSH]

It should also be noted that last year an ownership group from Atlanta came to the execs at TFC with Strippers for a consultation according to an inside source.

FiXED

[CretanBull]

Obviously I'd like to see Vancouver and Montreal but it's highly unlikely that they'll award two new teams to Canada. Montreal looks like a sure-thing IMO. A brand new stadium that can easily be expanded with incredible ownership...the Saputo's who have proven that they 'get it' and the money of the Montreal Canadiens and Liverpool FC is as solid as it comes.

Miami is a failed MLS city, but I think it would be hard to deny the interest of a world footy giant like Barcelona wanting to involve itself with the league. They'd add instand credibility to the league. At the same time, it would be hard for the MLS to turn it's back on a city like Portland who have earned it, and St. Louis who deserve it.

So, I think Montreal is a lock and Portland, St. Louis and Miami will fight it out for the other spot. Portland is probbably the favourite for the sake of league balance...with Philly added and Montreal on it's was, a team will have to be added out West.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Obviously I'd like to see Vancouver and Montreal but it's highly unlikely that they'll award two new teams to Canada. Montreal looks like a sure-thing IMO. A brand new stadium that can easily be expanded with incredible ownership...the Saputo's who have proven that they 'get it' and the money of the Montreal Canadiens and Liverpool FC is as solid as it comes.

Miami is a failed MLS city, but I think it would be hard to deny the interest of a world footy giant like Barcelona wanting to involve itself with the league. They'd add instand credibility to the league. At the same time, it would be hard for the MLS to turn it's back on a city like Portland who have earned it, and St. Louis who deserve it.

So, I think Montreal is a lock and Portland, St. Louis and Miami will fight it out for the other spot. Portland is probbably the favourite for the sake of league balance...with Philly added and Montreal on it's was, a team will have to be added out West.

yeah, sorta what im thinking

[rocker]

Portland or Vancouver would be key rivals for Seattle. Seattle is gonna have a shitty travel schedule as it stands. They need a bit of a break with a closer rival or two.

Montreal gives TFC a great rival, helps build TV contracts in Canada, and fits nicely in the East (along with other strengths). I still don't see how people think Ottawa is gonna get in ahead of Montreal and Vancouver. I agree with Ives that Ottawa is the least likely of the 7. I hear talk about how this owner or that owner is better.. but to be honest I think just about all of these owners meet the requirements of what MLS wants. They are all filthy rich (although I have not heard the St. Louis group's investors). Vancouver now has one of the founding president of Yahoo.com in its ownership group, a guy who just invested in the women's pro league in the US. MLS knows him well. So to suggest that Atlanta has some advantage cuz their guy owns Home Depot is stretching the advantage a bit, i think.

[Oldtimer]

Miami is a failed MLS city, but I think it would be hard to deny the interest of a world footy giant like Barcelona wanting to involve itself with the league. They'd add instand credibility to the league. At the same time, it would be hard for the MLS to turn it's back on a city like Portland who have earned it, and St. Louis who deserve it.



There are several reasons why Miami failed:

1) Ownership that could not continue to fund the team.

2) A bad stadium situation, located far from the potential market.

3) The Latino population at that time was largely Cuban. Cubans love baseball, not footie.

All of these factors have now changed:

1) It's hard to argue that Barca doesn't have the money.

2) Barca has the $$$ to build a great SSS without resorting to public funds. They are less concerned that their MLS side makes money, it's all about building their brand. Their MLS side can be a "loss leader."

3) With recent immigration, the population has changed, with a lot of immigration from football-loving nations.

Add to it that MLS has promised to return to Miami some day, and you have a strong bid.

[CretanBull]

^I agree completely, it's why I said that it would be hard to deny interest from Barca...realistically, they're one of the top 10 organizations in the world. Beyond their own franchise in Miami, they could teach the league a thing or two about how to run itself and frankly I'd welcome their influence.

A balanced schedule wouldn't be impossible with both Montreal and Miami, I'd guess that KC would become a Western conference team.

[Parkdale]

looking at the big picture here....

Seattle and Philly are 15th and 16th teams coming in, and neither of them have really gone much farther than Montreal has in terms of courting the league. I think the 17th team will be Montreal, and 18 will be Miami (even though I don't think they are close to being ready now). Miami needs a lot of time to get up to speed. Sure they have powerful backers, but so does Montreal. Gilette anyone?

[FluSH]

There are several reasons why Miami failed:

1) Ownership that could not continue to fund the team.

2) A bad stadium situation, located far from the potential market.

3) The Latino population at that time was largely Cuban. Cubans love baseball, not footie.

All of these factors have now changed:

1) It's hard to argue that Barca doesn't have the money.

2) Barca has the $$$ to build a great SSS without resorting to public funds. They are less concerned that their MLS side makes money, it's all about building their brand. Their MLS side can be a "loss leader."

3) With recent immigration, the population has changed, with a lot of immigration from football-loving nations.

Add to it that MLS has promised to return to Miami some day, and you have a strong bid.

Pronto... are you reading this? I hope you are :tongue:

(we had a huge arguement yesterday over this)

[forza_tfc]

You try having a CFL team that's Horrible for 20 years and owners that turn the stands into a peep show and still draw over 22,000 fans.
Oh that's right you're American you can afford that.
Not all Ottawa fans are Bandwagon jumpers.

Of course not all Ottawa fans are bandwagon jumpers. I am just saying there are not enough loyal sports fans in the area to support professional sports franchises. Let's talk when Ottawa has a crappy NHL team. Did you forget the Sens were in financial trouble just a few years ago? And what does being American have to do with the points being discussed? FYI--I'm from the Hammer who happens to work in the US.

[Lucky Strike]

I'm strongly against any sort of Miami/Barcelona project simply for the reason that it's bad for the image or credibility of the league if a bunch of Club XYZ FC jr.s come into the MLS. Partnerships such as between Spurs/San Jose, Arsenal/Colorado and RSL/Real Madrid are one thing, but a full on junior club? No thanks.

Of course there's no guarantee that this will be de jure the case with the Miami bid, but as we all know, perception is everything and Miami in my view would be a de facto junior club, regardless of the actual arrangement.

[Lucky Strike]

Of course not all Ottawa fans are bandwagon jumpers. I am just saying there are not enough loyal sports fans in the area to support professional sports franchises. Let's talk when Ottawa has a crappy NHL team. Did you forget the Sens were in financial trouble just a few years ago? And what does being American have to do with the points being discussed? FYI--I'm from the Hammer who happens to work in the US.

Not all, but most. I have the opportunity of seeing it every day. I genuinely don't think Ottawa is a good choice.

[JamboAl]

If it was a matter of Ottawa vs Atlanta or Miami, then I'd go with Ottawa (you can't get worse sports fans than in those 2 places, although Ottawa would be barely better). But Ottawa doesn't/shouldn't stand a chance against Montreal, Vancouver, Portland or St. Louis.

I agree with Lucky Strike, I see this everyday too; most people in Ottawa go home after work and stay there until the next workday when they are obliged to leave their abode for the outside world.

[Vindaloo]

Portland currently play in a baseball stadium that fits 20k. The basball team is planning on moving out in 2011 to get there new baseball park. From what i herd Portland plan to take over that stadium and renovate it to 25k and it will be a SSS!

I think there is a HUGE misconception from people on message boards of Portland's bid. From what we've seen so far in the news. Their whole bid is contingent on tax money and it will NOT be a SSS.

1) The owner, Merritt Paulson has stated that he can pay for the expansion fee but the City/or somebody else has to pay for the renovation of PGE Park(where the Timbers currently play) and pay for the new baseball stadium where the Beavers will move to. He owns both teams and requires 2 stadiums with someone else's money.

2) The Portland State University football team, who currently play at PGE, will continue to play at renovated PGE Park. Permanently.

Paulson - “We’re talking about bringing a major league (soccer) team to the city... plus the benefit to Portland State.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2008/09/01/daily15.html
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=121443168872554000

3) The Beavers baseball team, who currently play at PGE Park, will temporarily play at PGE until their new stadium is/can be built.

4) The City of Portland just paid $38.5m to renovate PGE Park in 2001 and are still paying it off. Do they want to shell out another $75m+?

5) The renovated PGE may have an attractive 3 stand pitch when it's done but there will still be a huge wall just behind the one end from a large building. Aesthetically not the greatest.

Wall at one end will remain.
http://i34.tinypic.com/2dgiyqt.jpg

[james]

heres how i would look at it. If you want a franchise to join MLS that doesn't have to muck around for years waitting for there stadium to be built and play in NFL stadiums in the mean time. If you want to give the City teams that wont make the team look bush league with half empty stadiums and soccer moms and if you want a team that is gonna sound more like the game is being playing in europe rather then over here in North America then give these 2 cities a club easily:

1)Portland
2)Montreal


If they want cities who gotta muck around and spend years building other stadiums in markets that might not be successful and just like many other MLS teams already in the league they have a good chance of being a soccer mom crowd with 12,000 fans a game. If you want teams that have to make this league look bush league for another 5 more years then give some of the other cities a team. Its really up to them.

[james]

I think there is a HUGE misconception from people on message boards of Portland's bid. From what we've seen so far in the news. Their whole bid is contingent on tax money and it will NOT be a SSS.

1) The owner, Merritt Paulson has stated that he can pay for the expansion fee but the City/or somebody else has to pay for the renovation of PGE Park(where the Timbers currently play) and pay for the new baseball stadium where the Beavers will move to. He owns both teams and requires 2 stadiums with someone else's money.

2) The Portland State University football team, who currently play at PGE, will continue to play at renovated PGE Park. Permanently.

Paulson - “We’re talking about bringing a major league (soccer) team to the city... plus the benefit to Portland State.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2008/09/01/daily15.html
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=121443168872554000

3) The Beavers baseball team, who currently play at PGE Park, will temporarily play at PGE until their new stadium is/can be built.

4) The City of Portland just paid $38.5m to renovate PGE Park in 2001 and are still paying it off. Do they want to shell out another $75m+?

5) The renovated PGE may have an attractive 3 stand pitch when it's done but there will still be a huge wall just behind the one end from a large building. Aesthetically not the greatest.

Wall at one end will remain.
http://i34.tinypic.com/2dgiyqt.jpg


Well i guess depends if they sort the stadium deal out.

But as for the concrete wall there i dont think is really an issue. They would have a sick 3 stands. And pretty much every team in MLS, including TFC only have 3 stands. Id rather have that wall block in the sound rather then having it just wide open. DC United stadium looks worse with behind both nets its just big black walls. The PGA park would look kind of unique to. And i have seen a few stadiums in Europe where they have had 1 end of the stadium be a solid cliff of rocks and what not. It looks pretty cool tho.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

for Toronto footie fans who are opposed to Ottawa geting an MLS (another Ottawa team to kick TO ass, i guess is their reason!!)
remember this...when MLSE what going after a MLS franchise all the doom sayers said the Soccer will not work in Toronto, it been done before and Failed and look how TFC is doing now? Otawa could easily duplicate
the success of TFC, EM knows what hes doing in Ottawa...Come on MLS and Garber put a team in Ottawa before Montreal and Vancouver for the good of the game.

[rocker]

heres how i would look at it. If you want a franchise to join MLS that doesn't have to muck around for years waitting for there stadium to be built and play in NFL stadiums in the mean time. If you want to give the City teams that wont make the team look bush league with half empty stadiums and soccer moms and if you want a team that is gonna sound more like the game is being playing in europe rather then over here in North America then give these 2 cities a club easily:

1)Portland
2)Montreal


If they want cities who gotta muck around and spend years building other stadiums in markets that might not be successful and just like many other MLS teams already in the league they have a good chance of being a soccer mom crowd with 12,000 fans a game. If you want teams that have to make this league look bush league for another 5 more years then give some of the other cities a team. Its really up to them.

yeah, this is what I'm thinkin. plus, they will probably have at least another 2 spots after this round of expansion... so any bids that aren't quite right can wait. If I were daddy Garber, I'd look at Montreal as about as sure a bet as I can find. You know they'll at least get 12-13K attendance!!! ;) (I think they'll get more of course). There's no screwing around with Montreal really, and the organization itself has tried to have the best soccer on the field for years. If he's concerned about proven track records in many ways, then montreal has it. Sure, Miami is sexier, and on paper Miami's ownership group sounds hot, but what else is certain about Miami? stadium? attendance? nope. I think you can say the same about most of the other bids. The organizations, for example, that have the track record in soccer that you can point to are Vancouver, Montreal and Portland.
If he's a gambling man, I guess he could choose anybody. He doesn't seem like that type tho.

[ensco]

What people would like to happen, and what is likely to happen, are two very different things.

Portland has little chance. Same for Vancouver. Ottawa is a total no-hoper, can we stop talking about it?

Sorry I wish it weren't so but in all three cases the ownership isn't impressive, and they're small, remote, unimportant markets. All this stuff about how the Timbers and Whitecaps fans are so wonderful is nice, but getting 15,000 hardcore fans with no TV upside is not very enticing to MLS. I think in Vancouver's case the NBA departure is a cloud hanging over that city as a viable big league market.

Of the 4 remaining candidates, I think they'll take Atlanta and Miami because of the perceived strength of ownership, and the importance of these markets to US television. But Montreal and St Louis are both legitimate, competitive, serious bids in important markets

Maybe Chivas and Columbus could relocate to whichever of these 4 cities don't get the nod.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I agree with the nohopers get over it but id put Atlanta in that same basket.
Do think Miami, Montreal and St Louis have chances (miami ONLY cuz Barca jumped behind it). I think Vancouver is stronger than you think, same with Portland.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

What people would like to happen, and what is likely to happen, are two very different things.

Portland has little chance. Same for Vancouver. Ottawa is a total no-hoper, can we stop talking about it?

Sorry I wish it weren't so but in all three cases the ownership isn't impressive, and they're small, remote, unimportant markets. All this stuff about how the Timbers and Whitecaps fans are so wonderful is nice, but getting 15,000 hardcore fans with no TV upside is not very enticing to MLS. I think in Vancouver's case the NBA departure is a cloud hanging over that city as a viable big league market.

Of the 4 remaining candidates, I think they'll take Atlanta and Miami because of the perceived strength of ownership, and the importance of these markets to US television. But Montreal and St Louis are both legitimate, competitive, serious bids in important markets

Maybe Chivas and Columbus could relocate to whichever of these 4 cities don't get the nod.


Melnyk isn't impressive? what weed are you smoking...He has with out doubt the best NHL team in the country, the are contenders year in and year out, while other canadian franchises..well...suck shite.. Melnyk is the type of owner MLS needs...if by chance Otawa does not get an expansion team he should just buy a poorly supported club (columbus) and move that to Ottawa...either or.

But in the next round it will be Miami and St Louis, they have left St Lpuis hanging for too long. So any Canadian team will most likely come on in 2012?

[Lucky Strike]

What people would like to happen, and what is likely to happen, are two very different things.

Portland has little chance. Same for Vancouver. Ottawa is a total no-hoper, can we stop talking about it?

Sorry I wish it weren't so but in all three cases the ownership isn't impressive, and they're small, remote, unimportant markets. All this stuff about how the Timbers and Whitecaps fans are so wonderful is nice, but getting 15,000 hardcore fans with no TV upside is not very enticing to MLS. I think in Vancouver's case the NBA departure is a cloud hanging over that city as a viable big league market.

Of the 4 remaining candidates, I think they'll take Atlanta and Miami because of the perceived strength of ownership, and the importance of these markets to US television. But Montreal and St Louis are both legitimate, competitive, serious bids in important markets

Maybe Chivas and Columbus could relocate to whichever of these 4 cities don't get the nod.

Precisely! Which is why I posted a list of what I'd like and what I think will actually happen.

This particular effect is most pronounced when it comes to Montreal. I've read on BigSoccer that most Americans consider Montreal to have an outside shot at best, while most Canadians I've spoken to seem to think Montreal is a lock (as do I, but I truly believe that - I'm going to hate Montreal to the core once their in).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

HAHA
me to with regards to Montreal
Those fucking cunts

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/10/report-global-economic-crisis-and-how.html

Yes yes i know its mls rumors but its still a good idea as far as articles on that site are concerned and somewhat insightful with regards to current teams and possible expansion teams

[BakaGaijin]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The credit market is dry. This is exactly how expansion will be decided:

Don Garber - "Who has $50 million cash, payable immeadiately?"

Bids 'A' and 'B' - "We do"

Don Garber - "Thank you bids A and B, the rest of you are dismissed"

Anyone who needs financing is never gonna get it.

[ensco]

Melnyk isn't impressive? what weed are you smoking...He has with out doubt the best NHL team in the country, the are contenders year in and year out, while other canadian franchises..well...suck shite.. Melnyk is the type of owner MLS needs...if by chance Otawa does not get an expansion team he should just buy a poorly supported club (columbus) and move that to Ottawa...either or.


I rely on news stories to form my opinion, tell me, what do you do?

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2432594420080324

[Roogsy]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The credit market is dry. This is exactly how expansion will be decided:

Don Garber - "Who has $50 million cash, payable immeadiately?"

Bids 'A' and 'B' - "We do"

Don Garber - "Thank you bids A and B, the rest of you are dismissed"

Anyone who needs financing is never gonna get it.

^LOL! Fantastic post.

Those that do not qualify will buy an NHL team instead so that Balsillie can get the big F-U from Bettman.

And then will go bankrupt and Balsillie will buy the team for a song.

No wait...that is already happening!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I rely on news stories to form my opinion, tell me, what do you do?

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2432594420080324

HAHAHA
i suspect he relies on 'intuition' and 'lithium'

[Ossington Mental Youth]

im totally going to bump this thread and highlight dudes quotes when Ottawa doesnt make it, which they wont

[Pronto]

Pronto... are you reading this? I hope you are :tongue:

(we had a huge arguement yesterday over this)

not to take anything from Barca . Miami i would think is the wrong city to go to....:noidea:

one thing i would lov would be the chants in Spanish...

[rocker]

that MLSrumours article is pretty weak. It's basically saying "almost all these guys will have to tighten their belts." Some analysis... to be honest, none of us knows the financial details of any of those owners. But i have a feeling that if you've got a couple billionaires working together, $40mill expansion fees are not something to worry about.
Recessions don't hit the super rich THAT hard.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

for sure, thought there were some interesting points that are usually overlooked but i agree i dont think its realistic and generalizes (christ, its mlsrumors, HA)

[J .]

Miami, Montreal.

Kansas switches to the West.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I rely on news stories to form my opinion, tell me, what do you do?

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2432594420080324


News stories? most news is made up nowadays for entertainment value,
look what ctv did to Dion...now thats a trustworth source news!!
Melnyk is the best of all the Canadian NHL owners, and would do a good job of mls franchise if he gets it...just as long as montreal and vancouver don't i'll be happy.

but back to news which toronto hockey team had a owner jailed for tax related
reasons and which toronto team when going bynews had a sex scandal involed in their
beloved arena... so if you go by News everything in Toronto is corrupt!!!

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

im totally going to bump this thread and highlight dudes quotes when Ottawa doesnt make it, which they wont


thats cool...but i want to return the Favour when Montreal and Vancouver get dumped which will happen.

[ensco]

News stories? most news is made up nowadays for entertainment value,
look what ctv did to Dion...now thats a trustworth source news!!
Melnyk is the best of all the Canadian NHL owners, and would do a good job of mls franchise if he gets it...just as long as montreal and vancouver don't i'll be happy.

but back to news which toronto hockey team had a owner jailed for tax related
reasons and which toronto team when going bynews had a sex scandal involed in their
beloved arena... so if you go by News everything in Toronto is corrupt!!!

I am in awe. You should be a Supreme Court Justice with these powers of reasoning.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

thats cool...but i want to return the Favour when Montreal and Vancouver get dumped which will happen.

k sounds good.

[B45]

Ok let me just say you're not wrong here but let me defend my position:

1)The crowds never stopped coming even when the Glibermans turned it into a peep show we regularly drew over 22,000. I dont know where people got the idea people stopped coming if you add the families that didn't want their kids going to a strip joint it would've made 30,000 easy.

2)Easy, Lacrosse sucks ass.

3)Granted the Lynx openned to great attendance figures but then turned into dwindling attendance, but alot of that had to do with that no players were staying with the team, if you think TFC had a revolving door of players look at the Lynx. Not to mention it was 2nd-tier. And I'm not gonna pretend that we're as big as TO, or even Mtl, we have trouble supporting a non-1st tier league, it's easier for a Halifax or Winnipeg to accept that. Like it or not it's the truth, it's Capital-City syndrome, but hardly makes us unsupportive.

4)You're right it took people awhile to come out to Senator games(well to sell-out anyway)but now they sell-out alot, but don't you think alot of that had to do with the high-tec boom in Kanata-West Ottawa which put alot of money in the average persons pockets and got them to the games in the first place, but still Hockey is grossly over-priced.

5)Jeff Hunt is a tremendous Owner(too bad he didn't have even more money) but Ottawa has always gone for good hockey at good prices and the lean years you speak of were probably before the Senators came to town and suddenly looked like a better option for your buck at the time.

As for including Gatineau in population figures you're absolutely right, they dont give a fuck about Ottawa, I wouldn't even defend that point.
I'm not trying to say I'm right and you're wrong, you make many good points and you're right not all Ottawa fans are loyal and devoted but I ask you to take what I say into consideration. Are we really that different that TO would be with less of a population, I doubt it.

I think you can view it from both sides...yes Ottawa does have both a good and bad redputation for sports...the 67s are now a model OHL franchise and so are the Sens (pains me to say that, Go Leafs) but I smaller sized city can't expect to have things like MLB baseball. AAA baseball is the highest Ottawa was ever going to see and now it's got even lower than that. Either way, an MLS *could* work in Ottawa but in fairness, I'm putting Montreal and Vancouver ahead of them unless Melnyk builds a stadium before Vancouver does.

By the way, there is an announcement set for today by the Hunt CFL group about Lansdowne and Frank Clair and their release mentions soccer as well in regards to the stadium.

[Mark in Ottawa]

smaller sized city can't expect to have things like MLB baseball. AAA baseball is the highest Ottawa was ever going to see and now it's got even lower than that.

By the way, there is an announcement set for today by the Hunt CFL group about Lansdowne and Frank Clair and their release mentions soccer as well in regards to the stadium.

No baseball team anymore... the Rapidz are bankrupt!
Apart from Hockey Ottawa is a sports wasteland :(

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I am in awe. You should be a Supreme Court Justice with these powers of reasoning.


to be on our supreme court all you have to be good at is taking bribes and hading out special favors in major decisions...yea i could do that.:D

[Bars92]

its gotta be Montreal or Ottawa, MLS needs to build on the sucess of Toronto. Then we can send the Red Army on road trips, better than Columbus. The other team I don't care, but its gotta be Ottawa or Hondreal.

[ensco]

its gotta be Montreal or Ottawa, MLS needs to build on the sucess of Toronto. Then we can send the Red Army on road trips, better than Columbus. The other team I don't care, but its gotta be Ottawa or Hondreal.

Sorry but why? Other applicants also help create new MLS rivalries.

Portland would be great for Seattle.

Vancouver would be great for Seattle and Toronto.

St Louis would be terrific for Chicago, Kansas City, and maybe Dallas and Columbus too.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Sorry but why? Other applicants also help create new MLS rivalries.

Portland would be great for Seattle.

Vancouver would be great for Seattle and Toronto.

St Louis would be terrific for Chicago, Kansas City, and maybe Dallas and Columbus too.


Vancouver would not be any good for Toronto, Ottawa would be way better easier for people to travel too..

[ensco]

Vancouver would not be any good for Toronto, Ottawa would be way better easier for people to travel too..

From a road support point of view, you're right.

From a general interest and TV ratings point of view, Toronto v Vancouver would be the biggest game of the year for TFC in MLS (unless Montreal was also in MLS)

[Bars92]

Sorry but why? Other applicants also help create new MLS rivalries.

Portland would be great for Seattle.

Vancouver would be great for Seattle and Toronto.

St Louis would be terrific for Chicago, Kansas City, and maybe Dallas and Columbus too.

Yeah the football-mad cities of Kansas City and Dallas. Good one, is your head cut mate??? Not only are those cities not even that close geographically, but the MLS would be foolish not to build upon the Canadian market which has seen Toronto become arguably the best market in MLS. :canada:

[rocker]

here's what Ives has to say:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)


he ranks montreal as the best bid.

(http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)

[J .]

Montreal and Portland would be sexy, but I still like the idea of Miami and Montreal. Moving Kansas City to the West. If would be perhaps a signal the league is going to open up the teams. I like the idea of the purpose of using the league to develop national talent, so there should be restrictions there, but the structure needs to change in terms of how teams can spend their money.

I would love Van city to get one, but i think they will get lost in the numbers game.

[rocker]

hey, what do you think of this factor in the selection process: Garber will pick USL cities to try to destroy the USL as a competitor????
that's just something that hit me... could be a strategic move to select USL sides. That would set the USL back for awhile (at least until they develop replacement markets).
It would be a genius move to gut the heart of the USL if he went with Portland and Montreal in this round, and then take Vancouver + a new american side in the next round.

[profit89]

here's what Ives has to say:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)


he ranks montreal as the best bid.

(http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)

Good read.

[profit89]

Sorry but why? Other applicants also help create new MLS rivalries.

Portland would be great for Seattle.

Vancouver would be great for Seattle and Toronto.

St Louis would be terrific for Chicago, Kansas City, and maybe Dallas and Columbus too.

KC, Dallas, and Columbus are terrible markets.

Its clear that Seattle & Toronto are thriving markets, and as such should be the focus of any growth.

If Portland and Vancouver got the bids...

Portland would be great for Seattle & Vancouver.
Vancouver would be great for Seattle, Toronto, & Portland.

[Redcoe15]

Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis, and Portland: :thumbsup:

Miami, Atlanta, and Ottawa: :mad: :dita:

[mednus]

Definitely: Miami (who's gonna say no to Barca)

Probably: St. Louis (waited patiently) or Portland (fans & rivalry w/ Seattle)

Unlikely: Montreal, Vancouver (next round for sure, US comes first), Atlanta (good owner, soccer market?)

Definitely not: Ottawa (fairweather fans)


If it must be two.
1. Montreal (furthest along soccer stadium needs small amount of renos and leads the CCL in points)
2. Miami (SUM partner Barca and FIU stadium looks like a great temp venue)

If it can be four.
3. Vancouver (Building a professional team and organization while they apply for an MLS team not sitting around waiting for one to be given to them - St.Louis)
4. Atlanta or Portland both have intriguing attributes that must be considered for this fourth team.

Ottawa -Not Now look to the USL1

[Vindaloo]

There was many people that said Toronto would be a big risk for a MLS franchise. Obviously the complete opposite has happened. Ironically, those people are still out in force in regards to Montreal and Vancouver. These two cities are a no-brainer as expansion bids and the only people that can't see it are geographically challenged Americans or the same pricks that saw Toronto as a risk in MLS.

Montreal and Vancouver have more to offer in the long run compared to any US bid city. We hope, that the problem isn't the fact that MLS are too retarded to see this.

[Redcoe15]

There was many people that said Toronto would be a big risk for a MLS franchise. Obviously the complete opposite has happened. Ironically, those people are still out in force in regards to Montreal and Vancouver. These two cities are a no-brainer as expansion bids and the only people that can't see it are geographically challenged Americans or the same pricks that saw Toronto as a risk in MLS.

Montreal and Vancouver have more to offer in the long run compared to any US bid city. We hope, that the problem isn't the fact that MLS are too retarded to see this.
Your not wrong about that. The problem is that, before Toronto joined the league, MLS is looked at as an American soccer league created, with the aid of the USSF, of developing American talent for the men's national side. There are those south of the border who despise the idea of Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver playing in "their league". And that TFC, the Impact, and the Whitecaps, along with several other Canadian cities, should form their own league and "stop leaching off the backs of American soccer".

Not only that, MLS is trying to chase big corporate dollars to help grow their league into major league relevance. There's far more of that in the States then there is in Canada, where most of the corporate dollars tend to flow more towards hockey's way. This is why loser sports towns like Miami and Atlanta will problably get more consideration than Canadian cities because of their location and TV market size. That's why they drooled over wanting a second team in New York, despite the first one being completely non existant in the Big Apple.

Look at it this way. Don Garber is a lawyer from New York who became MLS commissioner after years as a lieutenant for the NFL. Replace MLS with NHL and NFL with NBA, and you have an exact description of Gary Bettman, who thought extending hockey's "footprint" across the US would work. How'd that one go?

[James17930]

Here's another article assessing the bids -- my apologies if it's been posted already:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/soccer_america/10/17/mls.expansion/index.html

[Redcoe15]

Does this Ridge Mahoney even know what the hell he's talking about? Does he even know how much Joey Saputo is worth? Or that George Gillett is in with Saputo to get Montreal a team? Is he even aware of St. Louis' long stanging support for soccer in the community? That's like being critical of Hamilton as hockey market. Mahoney needs to go back to school in a big way.

[rocker]

mahoney's article is funny. he must have really high standards. he only calls one of the bids "good", three "fair", and the rest grim, slim, and miniscule. hahaha. I guess he'd only let 1 team in!!!

the fact is they're gonna pick 2, so I'm not sure what his evaluation comments mean. stupid.

i like vancouver but to say vancouver is the best bid by far (the only "good" bid) is crazy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

christ by that first article we may not know the result until the season starts next year.

[loconet]

C'mon Montreal!! Get your shit together.

[ccopela]

Here's another article assessing the bids -- my apologies if it's been posted already:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/soccer_america/10/17/mls.expansion/index.html

Interesting I didn't realize that Qwest field is field turf. Also George Gillett isn't Canadian.

[twistedchinaman]

I would say Montreal and Miami, especially now that Barca's in the mix. If the latter didn't have Barca, I think it wouldn't have a chance.

Failing that, Portland, St. Louis and then Vancouver would have to be next.

And I have to agree with most: Atlanta and Ottawa should even be considered.

But if we want to look at conference balancing standpoint, Montreal gets in, it'll be in the East with us. They would need to balance that out with a Western team, and that is where St. Louis (move KC to the West), Portland or Vancouver would have an edge.

[J .]

It would be sexy if Van City and MTL were BOTH added!

[gmacpheetfc]

I would say Montreal and Miami, especially now that Barca's in the mix. If the latter didn't have Barca, I think it wouldn't have a chance.

Failing that, Portland, St. Louis and then Vancouver would have to be next.

And I have to agree with most: Atlanta and Ottawa should even be considered.

But if we want to look at conference balancing standpoint, Montreal gets in, it'll be in the East with us. They would need to balance that out with a Western team, and that is where St. Louis (move KC to the West), Portland or Vancouver would have an edge.


SINGLE TABLE

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Montreal are going to Fall short for 2011 losing out to Miami and St Louis. If as expected the next rd of expansion will not happen till 2014. Montreal will be the front runner for that, with Portland and Ottawa being the other mai threats.

[ensco]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/soccer_america/10/17/mls.expansion/index.html

That was a seriously lame analysis. Ives' work on this is much better.

[Redcoe15]

Montreal are going to Fall short for 2011 losing out to Miami and St Louis. If as expected the next rd of expansion will not happen till 2014. Montreal will be the front runner for that, with Portland and Ottawa being the other mai threats.
If New York Mets owner Fred Wilpon gets his shit together and tells Garber he's ready, New York will automatically get in in the next round, guaranteed.

[twistedchinaman]

I think Ives forgets that TFC already has a national TV broadcaster -- hell, two and half. CBC, Sportsnet and the Score.

[GuelphStorm2007]

I think Montreal and Miami will be the next teams in. Mr Gillette presence will help, and with Barcelona with the Miami bid that could Miami over the top. I can see Van City maybe buying a current team that is struggling. like a Columbus, or K,C.

[Vindaloo]

I'm now feeling more and more that Montreal and Miami are the next two franchises. Plus it's two clubs with European connections, just what MLS wants in "internationalising'' their league. Vancouver I'm convinced will be in eventually, perhaps 2012-13 on the next round.

[Pronto]

hey, what do you think of this factor in the selection process: Garber will pick USL cities to try to destroy the USL as a competitor????
that's just something that hit me... could be a strategic move to select USL sides. That would set the USL back for awhile (at least until they develop replacement markets).
It would be a genius move to gut the heart of the USL if he went with Portland and Montreal in this round, and then take Vancouver + a new american side in the next round.

i was thinking the same thing... having Protland and Montreal would hurt USL SO MUCH... i hope the league stays alive till MLS has 20 teams...

[Dub Narcotic]

I think Ives forgets that TFC already has a national TV broadcaster -- hell, two and half. CBC, Sportsnet and the Score.

Is CBC English in Quebec? I doubt the Score and Sportsnet are. MLS has so little money coming in that a decent Canadian tv deal and major sponsorships would go a long way.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

If New York Mets owner Fred Wilpon gets his shit together and tells Garber he's ready, New York will automatically get in in the next round, guaranteed.


he cant even build a good baseball team...;) but your right NY will get another team soon...

[Pronto]

here's what Ives has to say:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)


he ranks montreal as the best bid.

(http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=582785&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901he)

i can't believe this guy Ives Galarcep thinks St. Louis has the second strongest bid tied with Portland... financially the weakest bid out of the 7 :noidea: the only thing they have is history on american soccer. He said it himself "so much soccer history and such a reputation for supporting the sport hasn't already joined MLS. The simple answer is money."


"the Whitecaps are set to move into 59,000-seat B.C. Place stadium in 2010" - if true that would make them one of the top contenders

"So why wouldn't Portland be a shoe-in? The bid is contingent on the city of Portland renovating PGE Park and building a new stadium for the city's minor league baseball team, which isn't overly appealing." - this is why Portlands bid looks weak


i'm thinkin its going to be Montreal & Miami but Van City is not to far away

[kodiakTFC]

Is CBC English in Quebec? I doubt the Score and Sportsnet are. MLS has so little money coming in that a decent Canadian tv deal and major sponsorships would go a long way.

Stations available in Quebec.

CBC English = yes
Sportsnet (all of them) = yes
The Score = yes

[James17930]

I actually think it will be Mtl. and Van. MLS have said they'd prefer the Orange Bowl site in Miami, not another partnership with a university (which would probably mean football lines on the field).

Ives says if the stadium in Portland gets renovated for an MLS team, someone's gonna have to build the minor-league baseball team a stadium, and no one seems to want to do that.

St. Louis can't even get an investment group together.

Basically, Mtl and Van do have the strongest bids. I think the only question may be how MLS is going to compensate USL for stealing their three strongest markets (along with Seattle).

[Cashcleaner]

Here's another article assessing the bids -- my apologies if it's been posted already:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/soccer_america/10/17/mls.expansion/index.html

Putting up the important points from Jame's post:

MONTREAL: If Canadian mogul George Gillett or one of his partners can step up as the lead investor, Montreal looks much stronger than it did with just the Saputo family on board. Otherwise, MLS officials will look somewhere else. Great stadium, good USL team. Chances: Fair.

VANCOUVER: There's oodles of money in Vancouver, and by allowing Seattle to play in Quest Field, MLS has laid the groundwork for matches at B.C. Place, a 60,000-seat facility that needs some renovation but might be a suitable stopgap, if the waterfront stadium project awakes from hibernation. The star power of NBA star Steve Nash is irresistible. Chances: Good.

PORTLAND: Some MLS executives are leery of renovating PG&E Park in Portland, and backer Merritt Paulson says he'll pony up the expansion fee ($40 million, supposedly) but needs partners and public money to run the team, overhaul the stadium, and also build a suburban baseball facility for the minor-league team that currently plays there. That's a lot of pieces to fall into place for a very promising market. But, think rivalry with Seattle. Chances: Fair.

ST. LOUIS: It needs money and has needed it for years. At least it has political backing for a stadium project. But is the project or market so flawed the money hasn't been forthcoming? Chances: Grim.

ATLANTA: This bid has Falcons owner Arthur Blank in the spotlight and former Columbus Crew general manager Jim Smith, the Falcons' vice president of marketing, working behind the scenes. Or not. Chances: Slim.

OTTAWA: NHL Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has clout but he's not Dave Checketts, who in four years gave birth to Real Salt Lake and moved it into a spectacular stadium. Top that! Chances: Miniscule.

MIAMI: FC Barcelona has joined forces with businessman Marcelo Claure, a Miami resident who is the CEO of Brightstar Corporation, a wireless company, and the owner of FC Bolivar. This can't be a rehash of the Chivas USA model, with U.S.-based partner Antonio Cue running the show and drawing lousy crowds for Guadalajara owner Jorge Vergara, and neither can it be ex-Fusion owner Ken Horowitz revisited. But there's a deal in place to play at FIU, so there's hope. Chances: Fair.

[kodiakTFC]

I actually think it will be Mtl. and Van. MLS have said they'd prefer the Orange Bowl site in Miami, not another partnership with a university (which would probably mean football lines on the field).

Ives says if the stadium in Portland gets renovated for an MLS team, someone's gonna have to build the minor-league baseball team a stadium, and no one seems to want to do that.

St. Louis can't even get an investment group together.

Basically, Mtl and Van do have the strongest bids. I think the only question may be how MLS is going to compensate USL for stealing their three strongest markets (along with Seattle).

I would love if this happened but I have a few things to say.

1. Will BC place have football lines too because the CFL season is pretty much the same as MLS.

2. I don't think MLS would add 2 Canadian teams in 2011 because it would ostracize the American fans. A lot of Americans see MLS as an American league and would like it to stay that way. For the record, one of the biggest goals for the MLS was to develop AMERICAN talent and build the sport in the nation. Not to help Canada too.*

*- you could argue making Canada better would provide better competition to the Americans, thus making them stronger as a result.

[Dirk Diggler]

George Gillet is not Canadian.

[Vindaloo]

1. Will BC place have football lines too because the CFL season is pretty much the same as MLS.

1. Nobody knows yet what will happen with the pitch or the direct seating around renovated BC Place. Pavco, who operate the stadium did say that they will make it soccer friendly. There could be a possibility of grass but with CFL and conventions I doubt it. They could use a modular grass system like GreenTech - http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp But that would be costly. The pitch lines will be repainted for each time they play like they will do in Seattle. They will be washed off.

Here is what BC Place looked like when they played Galaxy last Nov.
http://i38.tinypic.com/somgck.jpg

Now put that pitch into this stadium and you'll pretty much see what BC Place will look like in 2011 but the roof opening will be a bit smaller and round.
http://i36.tinypic.com/5a57jn.jpg

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

George Gillet is not Canadian.

I think he meant "Canadiens" (as in the Montreal NHL team)

[Fort York Redcoat]

^^If only the Whitecaps play LA every week. They need a smaller stadium.

[flatpicker]

sorry if this was already mentioned...

but when do they plan on making a decision about the expansion bids???

[Fort York Redcoat]

Lastest date is right before season starts next March.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I actually think it will be Mtl. and Van. MLS have said they'd prefer the Orange Bowl site in Miami, not another partnership with a university (which would probably mean football lines on the field).

Ives says if the stadium in Portland gets renovated for an MLS team, someone's gonna have to build the minor-league baseball team a stadium, and no one seems to want to do that.

St. Louis can't even get an investment group together.

Basically, Mtl and Van do have the strongest bids. I think the only question may be how MLS is going to compensate USL for stealing their three strongest markets (along with Seattle).


two canadian cities at once will NOT happen...Montreal is the best offer
right now....Vancounver should be forced to wait until a SSS it ok'd once and for all, if not keep them out. Miami is a automatic yes for 2011, and St Louis has been kept asdie too long....2011 Miami and St louis!!!

[james]

its gonna be a shame if they just give a team to what ever owner has cash in his hand first without even looking at when are they gonna have a SSS or do they have any fan support or is this team marketting towards the right fans.

Just having money doesn't mean the team will be a sucess and it can hurt the league further down the road. The longer MLS has teams in markets with no fans and no SSS will make MLS look bush league longer and longer!

[Keystone FC]

Lastest date is right before season starts next March.

Depending on how fast these bids can get things started we could hear something in January before or during the draft.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Depending on how fast these bids can get things started we could hear something in January before or during the draft.

Either way we have months of speculation to go.

[Oldtimer]

I would actually rate Miami as quite good.

MLS looks at the investor first, the market and business plan second.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Does MLS have a "strategy" related to travelling fans?
Do they insist that teams set aside "x" tickets for visiting supporter groups?

Could this impact the choice of expansion teams?

[Oldtimer]

Does MLS have a "strategy" related to travelling fans?
Do they insist that teams set aside "x" tickets for visiting supporter groups?

Could this impact the choice of expansion teams?

Nope. Nope. Only slightly.

[Oldtimer]

MLS Rumors http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/10/expansion-mlss-montreal-contingency.html
says that Montreal may replace Philly for 2010, due to the real estate meltdown in the US.

[RealG-TFC]

IMO Vancouver has a stronger chance than Montreal.

[rocker]

IMO Vancouver has a stronger chance than Montreal.

why so?

[T_Mizz]

IMO Vancouver has a stronger chance than Montreal.
Well that just can't be true, I mean I hope that I'm wrong, I hope they have even chances which are far above any american city because three canadian teams would do wonders for soccer in this nation:canada:. But having said that Montreal has probably the best stadium of all the applicants and one of the best investor groups not to mention the best attendance precident plus the biggest rivalry possibility, plus it's canadian and therefore better than the american applicants.

[ManUtd4ever]

I believe the economic meltdown in the U.S will inevitably force the powers at be in the mls to consider at least one of the Canadian proposals. The inclusion of both Montreal and Vancouver, although unlikely, would be the most viable of the potential expansion sites from a financial perspective...

[NF-FC]

1. Nobody knows yet what will happen with the pitch or the direct seating around renovated BC Place. Pavco, who operate the stadium did say that they will make it soccer friendly. There could be a possibility of grass but with CFL and conventions I doubt it. They could use a modular grass system like GreenTech - http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp But that would be costly. The pitch lines will be repainted for each time they play like they will do in Seattle. They will be washed off.

Here is what BC Place looked like when they played Galaxy last Nov.
http://i38.tinypic.com/somgck.jpg

Now put that pitch into this stadium and you'll pretty much see what BC Place will look like in 2011 but the roof opening will be a bit smaller and round.
http://i36.tinypic.com/5a57jn.jpg


^^If only the Whitecaps play LA every week. They need a smaller stadium.


When the Caps move to BC Place they will be playing the first ever game in the "new" BC Place. The first game will sell-out and the buzz should fill the lower bowl for the whole season. No doubt the Caps need to get a smaller stadium but BC Place will not be as bad as everyone thinks.

[RealG-TFC]

why so?

The Whitecaps have always been a very well run organization, but then another story. They have a private billionaire owner and star power behind them (Steve Nash). They have shown ambition and determination with their bid, something Montreal really hasn't. They were, after all, one of the first ones up to bid. Up until a couple of days ago, it was not known whether Montreal was going to bid at all. Sure Montreal has a stadium, but the commissioner didn't seems impressed (with the building), and renovations are a must. The Whitecaps may not have a stadium ready, but are planned to play in a world class stadium, renovated with them in mind, and have not given up their will to get their own stadium built.

[Canary Canuck]

The Whitecaps have always been a very well run organization, but then another story. They have a private billionaire owner and star power behind them (Steve Nash). They have shown ambition and determination with their bid, something Montreal really hasn't. They were, after all, one of the first ones up to bid. Up until a couple of days ago, it was not known whether Montreal was going to bid at all. Sure Montreal has a stadium, but the commissioner didn't seems impressed (with the building), and renovations are a must. The Whitecaps may not have a stadium ready, but are planned to play in a world class stadium, renovated with them in mind, and have not given up their will to get their own stadium built.

I think you're right with one exception. The waterfront stadium is amazing but it's also the reason they won't get in this round. MLS has choices and want nothing to do with BC Place. They want the waterfront. To them, they're better off just waiting until the waterfront SSS gets sorted out before letting them in. They'll get in as soon as the stadium red tape is done with. If the waterfront SSS was approved they would be a 100% sure bet.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think you're right with one exception. The waterfront stadium is amazing but it's also the reason they won't get in this round. MLS has choices and want nothing to do with BC Place. They want the waterfront. To them, they're better off just waiting until the waterfront SSS gets sorted out before letting them in. They'll get in as soon as the stadium red tape is done with. If the waterfront SSS was approved they would be a 100% sure bet.

Quest(Seattle) and a refurbished BC Place are essentially similar from a bidding perspective. I think MLS would have more reservations with if the refurbishing can be accomplished in time. Past that it's all population and tv possibilities.

[NF-FC]

Quest(Seattle) and a refurbished BC Place are essentially similar from a bidding perspective. I think MLS would have more reservations with if the refurbishing can be accomplished in time. Past that it's all population and tv possibilities.

There is a difference. The Sounders will control all revenue at Qwest field because the building is owned by a part owner of the team. The Whitecaps will have to pay rent and share concessions at BC Place, but it's only a temp situation until they get the waterfront stadium.

[Vindaloo]

Released today. Here is the rendering for the BC Place refurb done for the 2011 season. Not bad for a "temporary" home until they build their own stadium. Surely MLS will see this as a very positive move. I have a feeling MLS will go with Montreal and Miami anyway. Vancouver and someone else for 19 and 20.


Courtesy Whitecaps FC/PavCo

Thursday, November 06 - 01:05:10 PM

Mike Hanafin
VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - BC Place Stadium and the Vancouver Whitecaps FC have released a preliminary artist's rendering showing how BC Place’s proposed new retractable roof might be configured, in order to best accommodate soccer events at the refurbished stadium.

The stadium is undergoing a two-phased renovation, and 'Phase Two' is scheduled to be completed in time for the start of the 2011 Major League Soccer (MLS) season, including installation of a retractable roof.

Additional planned soccer-specific renovations (see larger image below), which are designed to increase the intimacy of the venue, include modular floor level hospitality areas, floor level seats, and a flexible upper deck draping which will seamlessly and effectively limit the capacity of the stadium to approximately 22,000 seats. It can be removed to allow for future growth. The building plans also include a new FIFA-approved artificial turf surface.

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsre...tecapsReno.pdf (http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WhitecapsReno.pdf)

http://i35.tinypic.com/s2aczq.jpg

[Keystone FC]

Released today. Here is the rendering for the BC Place refurb done for the 2011 season. Not bad for a "temporary" home until they build their own stadium. Surely MLS will see this as a very positive move. I have a feeling MLS will go with Montreal and Miami anyway. Vancouver and someone else for 19 and 20.


Courtesy Whitecaps FC/PavCo

Thursday, November 06 - 01:05:10 PM

Mike Hanafin
VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - BC Place Stadium and the Vancouver Whitecaps FC have released a preliminary artist's rendering showing how BC Place’s proposed new retractable roof might be configured, in order to best accommodate soccer events at the refurbished stadium.

The stadium is undergoing a two-phased renovation, and 'Phase Two' is scheduled to be completed in time for the start of the 2011 Major League Soccer (MLS) season, including installation of a retractable roof.

Additional planned soccer-specific renovations (see larger image below), which are designed to increase the intimacy of the venue, include modular floor level hospitality areas, floor level seats, and a flexible upper deck draping which will seamlessly and effectively limit the capacity of the stadium to approximately 22,000 seats. It can be removed to allow for future growth. The building plans also include a new FIFA-approved artificial turf surface.

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsre...tecapsReno.pdf (http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WhitecapsReno.pdf)

http://i35.tinypic.com/s2aczq.jpg
Hold on here. It's not even halftime and TFC is down 3-0 to the Caps?:mad:

[Redcoe15]

Hold on here. It's not even halftime and TFC is down 3-0 to the Caps?:mad:
:mad5:

[Mark in Ottawa]

^^ Artists renderings are always fantasy aren't they ;)

[CDNSoccerFan]

when are they announcing the winning bids?

[GabrielHurl]

ST. LOUIS: It needs money and has needed it for years. At least it has political backing for a stadium project. But is the project or market so flawed the money hasn't been forthcoming? Chances: Grim.

They've got Albert Pujols on board now

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/11/19/ap5715543.html


Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols is adding his star power to a group working to bring an MLS expansion team to the area.The announcement on Tuesday comes a day after Pujols won his second NL MVP award. Pujols' reputation, plus a significant financial investment that was not disclosed, is expected to boost St. Louis Soccer United's chances of winning a franchise in 2011


"I am very proud and excited to join the effort to bring Major League Soccer to the St. Louis area," Pujols said in a statement. "This means a lot to me and my family, as we all love soccer and we believe in MLS."
Seven cities are competing for two expansion teams with selections expected by the end of March. Also applying were Vancouver, Montreal, Atlanta, Miami, Ottawa and Portland.
The Vancouver group also has star power, including two-time NBA MVP Steve Nash.

The St. Louis group believes that adding Pujols, the highest paid player in Cardinals history with two years to go on a seven-year, $100 million contract, will eliminate doubts about its financial footing and encourage area business leaders to become involved.
The team would play in an 18,500-seat stadium yet to be built in Collinsville, Ill., near St. Louis


"This is something that will be great for our community, especially our youth," Pujols said. "St. Louis is an unbelievable sports town and we'll be a great city for Major League Soccer."

[ensco]

The St. Louis group believes that adding Pujols, the highest paid player in Cardinals history with two years to go on a seven-year, $100 million contract, will eliminate doubts about its financial footing

That line right there tells you the St Louis bid is DOA.

This is a game for billionaires, or billion dollar companies. It's why Montreal and Vancouver (particularly Vancouver) are in real danger of being left out. Philly is the exception, I know, but it's a special case for historical and demographic reasons I'll get into if someone cares enough to ask.

[Beach_Red]

That line right there tells you the St Louis bid is DOA.

This is a game for billionaires, or billion dollar companies. It's why Montreal and Vancouver (particularly Vancouver) are in real danger of being left out. Philly is the exception, I know, but it's a special case for historical and demographic reasons I'll get into if someone cares enough to ask.

Okay, I'll bite. There's been a lot of talk on here about St. Louis as the heart of soccer in the US so why is Philly the special case?

And is it a game for billionaires in the US yet, or can guy with only a hundred million still sneak in?

[Hitcho]

I'd like Montreal in for the rivalry and road trips (MASSIVE uptake for that I reckon), but the prospect of diluting the Canadian talent pool and TFC getting fucked even harder up the arse on the international player spots and call ups due to sharing Canadian players and paying over the odds for them as a result, is not good.

MLS now consists of two countries, and players from either of those countries should, for MLS roster purposes only, count as domestic. Any other approach is absolutely stupid.

PS - does George Gillete have anything to do with the Impact bid and, if so, is there going to eb some kind of link up between them and Liverpool? That would be a fucking nightmare, on lots of levels.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Putting up the important points from Jame's post:

MONTREAL: If Canadian mogul George Gillett or one of his partners can step up as the lead investor, Montreal looks much stronger than it did with just the Saputo family on board. Otherwise, MLS officials will look somewhere else. Great stadium, good USL team. Chances: Fair.

VANCOUVER: There's oodles of money in Vancouver, and by allowing Seattle to play in Quest Field, MLS has laid the groundwork for matches at B.C. Place, a 60,000-seat facility that needs some renovation but might be a suitable stopgap, if the waterfront stadium project awakes from hibernation. The star power of NBA star Steve Nash is irresistible. Chances: Good.

PORTLAND: Some MLS executives are leery of renovating PG&E Park in Portland, and backer Merritt Paulson says he'll pony up the expansion fee ($40 million, supposedly) but needs partners and public money to run the team, overhaul the stadium, and also build a suburban baseball facility for the minor-league team that currently plays there. That's a lot of pieces to fall into place for a very promising market. But, think rivalry with Seattle. Chances: Fair.

ST. LOUIS: It needs money and has needed it for years. At least it has political backing for a stadium project. But is the project or market so flawed the money hasn't been forthcoming? Chances: Grim.

ATLANTA: This bid has Falcons owner Arthur Blank in the spotlight and former Columbus Crew general manager Jim Smith, the Falcons' vice president of marketing, working behind the scenes. Or not. Chances: Slim.

OTTAWA: NHL Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has clout but he's not Dave Checketts, who in four years gave birth to Real Salt Lake and moved it into a spectacular stadium. Top that! Chances: Miniscule.

MIAMI: FC Barcelona has joined forces with businessman Marcelo Claure, a Miami resident who is the CEO of Brightstar Corporation, a wireless company, and the owner of FC Bolivar. This can't be a rehash of the Chivas USA model, with U.S.-based partner Antonio Cue running the show and drawing lousy crowds for Guadalajara owner Jorge Vergara, and neither can it be ex-Fusion owner Ken Horowitz revisited. But there's a deal in place to play at FIU, so there's hope. Chances: Fair.

MONTREAL
Gillette will hurts Montreals bid if his runing of Liverpool FC have any input, he has to sell his share in that, as its too big of a club for Him and that Jackass Tom Hicks. Montreals chances......very poor

VANCOUVER
MLS wants a SSS not another big domed stadium, and with this, this will kill Vancouvers chances for a while yet.....Chances.....NIL

St Louis
MLS wants this market, and if proper owners could be found they would be in automatic..they maybe a decade off....Chances.....NIL

Atlanta
Have the big buck owner MLS is looking for, but looking back at the NASL's Chiefs, they were never supported well.....Chances 40-60

Ottawa
Has the Owner, has the SSS plans, this will be a long shot that actually pays off...has no summer competition.........Chances 70-30

MIAMI
With Barca involved they are all but assured a team, but how long with Barca stay committed ro MLS.....................Chances 90-10

[Vindaloo]

Here is new BC Place renders.

The first pic shows the stadium precinct with new adjacent towers. GM Place is to the right of that with the viaducts, metro line, future towers, and a new park. The area in the forefront of the stadium will be the gigantic new art gallery complex. The construction at the bottom of the pic is the Olympic Village with the Imax ball to the right. This entire area will be served by 4 metro stops.

http://i34.tinypic.com/344uxds.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/2i6gp7d.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/2v2cj2d.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/2w5m52r.jpg

[Pronto]

shit Montreal is out of the race from what Garber said...

"Garber added that the interest in acquiring expansion teams remains strong. The Commissioner said that a group interested in bringing an MLS club to Montreal had taken themselves out of the running for entering the league in 2011"

http://web.mlsnet.com/mls/events/mls_cup/2008/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081121&content_id=205893&vkey=mlscup2008&fext=.jsp

[Cashcleaner]

They've got Albert Pujols on board now

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/11/19/ap5715543.html

Certainly doesn't hinder their chances any bit. St. Loius just looks and feels right to me. I think they are a shoe-in to be quite honest. As for Ottawa, a random MLS spokesperson (I think he was President of Operations or something) said in a recent interview that Melnyk has put together a really well-rounded plan for a franchise there so I'm going to pick it as a darkhorse selection for the second spot. I really don't think the CFL is going to take another chance there, which gives soccer a window in which to take root.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

totally bonkers (the montreal situation)
Like i said Mighty Toronto FC, ill gladly apologize if Ottawa make it (still dont think itll happen, tho they look ALOT better now that MOntreal is gone) and you certainly got the Montreal dropping out bit right.

[Mark in Ottawa]

It is official... Montreal is out of the running.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ondemand/?playlistId=420a65442fa7b343551416840309cbb4deef0e 97&videoId=934980008