Carver's Ultimatum to TFC DP or I'm gone

[Inswingingwingman]

CBC article just posted in the News Section..says the fans are owed the DP due to their loyalty, No DP, he's going home...wants to stay, turned down 2 job offers....

So what do you think?

Doe

[Shaughno]

No differently than I thought before. He needs another year to work with the team... and he's right we do need a DP.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

hes got something in the wings and is still unsure.
i hope hes stays (and a dp would be dope too) but i suspect he will leave.
i really really hope im wrong

[Ossington Mental Youth]

No differently than I thought before. He needs another year to work with the team... and he's right we do need a DP.

for sure agreed here

[denime]

Carver gives ultimatum to Toronto FC



John Carver hasn't hidden the fact that he thinks Toronto FC needs to sign a star "designated player" in order to be competitive in Major League Soccer.
Earlier this week, the head coach once again staked his future with Toronto FC on the club's ability to add a designated player to the roster in time for the 2009 MLS season.


READ MORE (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/10/08/carver-designated-player.html)

[Parkdale]

I'm glad he's putting pressure one the club to put some money up for things that matter. We're stalled on grass, there's never going to be a roof.... the one thing we can actually get from MLSE is a DP. Carver is totally right to push them on this one. I wonder where Mo is sitting? (other than at a bar in the beach)

[Roogsy]

I said this in the Today's news thread.


Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.

[Roogsy]

ok...we have two threads going on the same subject. Someone merge this one with Denime's thread.

[Shaughno]

I believe Mo said this year that his hands were tied on the issue. He wants a DP player but it was up to the organization or something. Basically MLSE.

[Roogsy]

^I don't believe that is correct. While I believe he has to run it by the club, (as all big decisions should, it would be crazy not to) I don't think that is what is stopping them from signing anyone. He has always been clear that it was about finding the right person to fit the team.

[werewolf]

Wouldn't he have to clear it with the league as well.

[Shakes McQueen]

hes got something in the wings and is still unsure.
i hope hes stays (and a dp would be dope too) but i suspect he will leave.
i really really hope im wrong

This actually gives me more optimism that Carver will stay for now (assuming we get the DP, of course). He sounds really committed to the team, from his comments.

- Scott

[Shaughno]

^I don't believe that is correct. While I believe he has to run it by the club, (as all big decisions should, it would be crazy not to) I don't think that is what is stopping them from signing anyone. He has always been clear that it was about finding the right person to fit the team.

I mean they wouldn't front the money. :rolleyes: Hence, no matter what he does, his hands are tied.

[Shakes McQueen]

Wouldn't he have to clear it with the league as well.

From what I've witnessed, it seems the league only really objects if a transfer fee is involved. Not sure why they are so opposed to clubs paying transfer fees for their DP's - as that's the only way you're ever going to get top-flight DP's in MLS.

- Scott

[olegunnar]

Carver vs Mo round 9
and Carver has just thrown a haymaker.

[canadian_bhoy]

Didn't Mo come out of the MLSE meeting last November with the "OK" for a DP?

I think the hard fact is that they can't get someone who
a) wants to come to Canada
b) wants to play on turf

there's no doubt that turf is an issue here. I mean, if Huckerby wouldn't sign because of the turf - how can we expect some premadona DP level player to sign!

[johnmolinaro]

When John uttered the quote yesterday at practice - about signing a DP or he's gone - it took took me off-guard at first.

but then when he told me he's turned down two other job offers, it kind of put things in perspective.

say what you will about the man, and I know he divides opinion, the man is committed to Toronto FC and wants more than anything else to see it succeed.

John Molinaro, CBCSports.ca

[Shaughno]

Cheers John, pretty much how most rational supporters see it as well.

[Roogsy]

^People/teams want Carver...why are people on this forum so willing to let him go? When you have an asset, you don't just let it go on a whim!

[redcard]

this may actually be a way for him to leave...no dp gives him that reason to leave...will a star player come here and play on turf...i dont think so, de ro hates it, and the star dp beckham hates it....

i dont see TFC signing a dp until the grass issues has been resolved...with no grass no dp and boom carver has his reason to leave...

[Roogsy]

^Why you gotta bring me down bro?

[Detroit_TFC]

This puts pressure on MLSE to not get cold feet on the DP commitment made previously. Carver must feel that MLSE is back pedaling for him to make a point of it.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

this may actually be a way for him to leave...no dp gives him that reason to leave...will a star player come here and play on turf...i dont think so, de ro hates it, and the star dp beckham hates it....

i dont see TFC signing a dp until the grass issues has been resolved...with no grass no dp and boom carver has his reason to leave...

sorta what im thinking too.
that way he leaves as the good guy vs leaving as the bad guy.
also it means it forces MLSE and Mos hands.
God i hope he stays.
The last thing we need next season is another coach.
I really do like Carver alot.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dont by the way think Mo and Carver have it out for each other. I do think Carver is pressuring Mo to sign some quality (including a DP) which is a good/healthy thing. I dont think Mo is slacking either (although i dont agree with him waiting all that time for Dickov to not sign with us). Mo really has alot of work to do in the off season and the pressure is on

[Oldtimer]

You gotta say that Carver has passion for his team (as if that wasn't already clear enough).

[brad]

there's no doubt that turf is an issue here. I mean, if Huckerby wouldn't sign because of the turf - how can we expect some premadona DP level player to sign!

While the turf will make it more difficult, remember that Angel signed up to play on NFL lines, on NFL turf, in an NFL stadium.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think the draw there was that he was playing in 'new york'

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Wheres that possible DP thread again that had Materazzi and those other cats?
Might be time to give it another look...
Im starting to think a DP defender might be the best move as well...

[AL-MO]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/AL-MO/incarverwetrust.jpg

[Pigfynn]

I think he's saying it to show his empathy for the supporters. I think he knows that we'll be getting a DP and so it's an empty threat.

A "baby kissing" like gesture. PR baby! that's all.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Hope youre right Pigfynn

[nascarguy]

jc goes home he better take mo with him I'm giving mo in till the 1st day of spring training to sign us a great dp or he can pack his bags on the 2nd day and get the fuck out of the mls

[Billy the kid]

Didn't they already say they were going to sign a DP for sure and that it was going to be a Canadian? Now it sounds like Carver is uncertain whether they will sign one. They really shouldn't say anything until they are sure.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think a Canadian DP was wishful thinking, i do think a DP is on the agenda

[Technorgasm]

sounds like media massaging to me.. prob knows we are getting one.. wich is GREAT news.

IN CARVER WE TRUST!

[NateDoGG]

i wonder if they offered him the spurs job?!?!!??!

[Limani_Ole]

dont see why MLSE have not address the turf issue yet..

turf is our first stumbling block, the rest will follow..

[Technorgasm]

dont see why MLSE have not address the turf issue yet..

turf is our first stumbling block, the rest will follow..

If you plant it. . . they will win?



sounds like a banner / chant to me.

JCsARMY

[Mango Kid]

Fucking. Love. Carver.

[Daveisonfire]

JC's all red army

What a guy

[Oldtimer]

I love the interpretations:

(1) He knows there is no DP and he's saying this so he can leave for Newcastle and still seem like a hero with the supporters.

(2) He knows that there is a DP and he's just talking it up so he can be a hero with the supporters.

I love how we can hold two mutually exclusive and contradictory conspiracy theories. :lol:

[Beach_Red]

Didn't Mo come out of the MLSE meeting last November with the "OK" for a DP?

I think the hard fact is that they can't get someone who
a) wants to come to Canada
b) wants to play on turf

there's no doubt that turf is an issue here. I mean, if Huckerby wouldn't sign because of the turf - how can we expect some premadona DP level player to sign!

You're right. Probably the only guys who are willling to come want twice as much $$ as anyone else is willing to pay them. Not the reputation we want for TFC.

[Richard D]

You cant put the cart before the horse. We need grass, THEN we can go after a DP that wont play on fake grass...

[FluSH]

CBC article just posted in the News Section..says the fans are owed the DP due to their loyalty, No DP, he's going home...wants to stay, turned down 2 job offers....

So what do you think?

Doe


RESPECT

[giambac]

When John uttered the quote yesterday at practice - about signing a DP or he's gone - it took took me off-guard at first.

but then when he told me he's turned down two other job offers, it kind of put things in perspective.

say what you will about the man, and I know he divides opinion, the man is committed to Toronto FC and wants more than anything else to see it succeed.

John Molinaro, CBCSports.ca

2 job offers?

Where?
Which teams?
I mean he can just be spreading shit to make himself look good. Really, telll us where these offers are? Details, otherwise i find it hard to believe anyone would want this guy. If the teams look at his record it ain't impressive.
I can't take what he says literally. Sorry, I just can't. I've seen to much talk, to much threat and to much bullshit coming from him.

[Boris]

giambac,
ive seen too much talk coming from you but i dont call you out.... :D

[trane]

^ I do not think it is PR, in that sence, but I do think that he may want more say in what players he gets.

While I was one of those who was saying that if we do not get better before the end of the season, we needed to think about a new direction. I have always liked Carver and believe that his passion is real, and that what he is trying to do is right. His reaction after Saturdays win and this quote convince me futher. I will still like to see two more wins and better play, then whether or not we make the playoffs I will feel confident that we are headed in the right direction.

[giambac]

giambac,
ive seen too much talk coming from you but i dont call you out.... :D

Yes, but he is going to the papers, to the media and telling everyone. If he has 2 offers tell us who they are for.
Is it the SPL? If so, no big thing?
What division, what level?
Is it a head coaching position? or is it an asistant coach or a coach in transition or training position?

I bet it's on eof the latter.:confused:

[nascarguy]

If you plant it. . . they will win?



sounds like a banner / chant to me.

JCsARMY

I'll get right on it...lol

[nascarguy]

You cant put the cart before the horse. We need grass, THEN we can go after a DP that wont play on fake grass...
your right no great dp will play on fake gass

[Chevy]

I think MLSE is the type of organization that would not put up with ultimatums. Honestly I don't think I would either, so my guess is that Carver is gone at year's end, wether he wants to go or not.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

I said this in the Today's news thread.


agreed he is the best thing to happen to TFC this season...but demanding this from MLSE never seem to work the could call him on it then see what happens...but the DP question is who will want to play on field turf, if the answer is very few then TFC have problems..Let hope JC stays around here for a while yet...

[ensco]

I love the interpretations:

(1) He knows there is no DP and he's saying this so he can leave for Newcastle and still seem like a hero with the supporters.

(2) He knows that there is a DP and he's just talking it up so he can be a hero with the supporters.

I love how we can hold two mutually exclusive and contradictory conspiracy theories. :lol:

This is my view, and I'll add a third:

(3) Either way, this is what people will be talking about, not all the lost points in the summer, and whether his coaching had anything to do with that.

Anyone else wondering if Carver might get sacked for this right now? It's pretty strange for a coach to be pulling this kind of stuff.

[RedRum]

Funny though - most teams that have been successful in MLS haven't had a DP. Instead they fill out their rosters with players who give a fuck and a coach who's tactics win critical games.

I love Carver's attitude and nothing would make me happier than to see TFC do well under him, but this statement wreaks of passing the buck. Just my opinion...

[Shakes McQueen]

Considering Mo has promised a DP for next season, if this was all supposed to be an elaborate ruse to let Carver leave as a "good guy", then it wasn't a very good plan.

I think the guy is just playing his hand in trying to make sure we get a DP for next season, and knowing fans are behind him, isn't worried about getting fired or whatever.

- Scott

[wzhxvy]

I want a DP as much as the next guy but can we really start doing vs talking please ?

Its like endless phone sex...I want to meet up baby...LETS DO IT !

[Pronto]

Didn't Mo come out of the MLSE meeting last November with the "OK" for a DP?

I think the hard fact is that they can't get someone who
a) wants to come to Canada
b) wants to play on turf

there's no doubt that turf is an issue here. I mean, if Huckerby wouldn't sign because of the turf - how can we expect some premadona DP level player to sign!


im with you on this the grass has to come first... i'm thinking thats why Ruiz is some what injured:noidea:

[Pronto]

Carver is one smart guy which makes you think whats with all the Talk? one week his telling media the payers are going to be fighting for there jobs next year then he's coming with if he doesn't get a dp he's gone...

sound like he wants his players to wake up?

hope it works.

i due think we have a pretty decent team just the one problem is we don't play as a team

[Keyman]

Toronto will have a designated player next season. Carver will stay. Life will be good. MLS Cup here we come.

[Draracle]

I bet we get the grass, so I don't see that being an issue.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

dont see why MLSE have not address the turf issue yet..

turf is our first stumbling block, the rest will follow..


MLSE don't own the stadium its out of their control..

[RPB_Brantford_08]

2 job offers?

Where?
Which teams?
I mean he can just be spreading shit to make himself look good. Really, telll us where these offers are? Details, otherwise i find it hard to believe anyone would want this guy. If the teams look at his record it ain't impressive.
I can't take what he says literally. Sorry, I just can't. I've seen to much talk, to much threat and to much bullshit coming from him.


would you discuss your employment situation on these boards or to the media? so why should JC be different?

[LucaGol]

I wonder if Dominic Kinnear or Steve Nicol will ever issue ultimatums to ownership about getting a DP?

[Draracle]

would you discuss your employment situation on these boards or to the media? so why should JC be different?

Ignore the resident troll. He is cute, but if you give him too much attention he gets really needy.

As for the field, Miller said the Fed and Prov govs would have to approve it -- and their only concern is having amateur, winter fields. If the MLSE wants it, I think they will get it. Not a sure bet, but a good one.

[Glenchen29]

The whole purpose of the DP is to get more fans in the seats and Toronto dosen't need that! As well the league would have to approve it so the only people getting DP is we the Toronto fans :hump: As well, with no grass it will be tough!

[jloome]

Ignore the resident troll. He is cute, but if you give him too much attention he gets really needy.

As for the field, Miller said the Fed and Prov govs would have to approve it -- and their only concern is having amateur, winter fields. If the MLSE wants it, I think they will get it. Not a sure bet, but a good one.

Not sure where Miller gets that. I've read the agreement, it would be up to the city to decide on major changes to the venue. And it benefits -- greatly -- from the team's success level, because it gets half the stadium revenue take, i.e. parking and concessions. Or something like that.

[TFCAlbertaGirl]

I want a DP as much as the next guy but can we really start doing vs talking please ?

Its like endless phone sex...I want to meet up baby...LETS DO IT !

I couldn't have put it better myself

[Chevy]

This is my view, and I'll add a third:

(3) Either way, this is what people will be talking about, not all the lost points in the summer, and whether his coaching had anything to do with that.

Anyone else wondering if Carver might get sacked for this right now? It's pretty strange for a coach to be pulling this kind of stuff.


^^I expect that he is done for.

I know for sure if I went out there and started mouthing off about the other job offers out there and how I just might up and leave, my bosses would say "OK Johnny Boy, go fuck right off to one of those other jobs".

Any my results this year were far better than Carver's :hump:

[jloome]

^^I expect that he is done for.

I know for sure if I went out there and started mouthing off about the other job offers out there and how I just might up and leave, my bosses would say "OK Johnny Boy, go fuck right off to one of those other jobs".

Any my results this year were far better than Carver's :hump:

A lot of this is cultural. Does anyone here watch the interviews after premiership matches? English managers are notoriously lacking in tact, with the exception of the top few, who are enormously lacking in it when it gains them an advantage.

[Chevy]

jloome - you're correct, and I for one appreciate it to some degree. However, Carver's lack of tact combined with MLSE's abundance of ego ain't a great marriage.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Ignore the resident troll. He is cute, but if you give him too much attention he gets really needy.

As for the field, Miller said the Fed and Prov govs would have to approve it -- and their only concern is having amateur, winter fields. If the MLSE wants it, I think they will get it. Not a sure bet, but a good one.

if i had my choice the grass field would come before a DP if we get the grass the easier getting a DP would be...But there might be a DP willing to play on field turf for a season or so...but who to get??

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

CBC article just posted in the News Section..says the fans are owed the DP due to their loyalty, No DP, he's going home...wants to stay, turned down 2 job offers....

So what do you think?

Doe
We're getting a DP for sure. Mo had better finally live up to his promises, though. Carver clearly wants to build something here, repay the guy for his efforts.

[James17930]

I have to say I think this is just Carver's way of speaking. He's just a colourful guy who uses colourful language. I agree that is seems certain we're getting a DP and that's why he feels he can exaggerate and say interesting things like this.

And that DP will be JDG! I can feel it in my bones.

[Draracle]

Not sure where Miller gets that. I've read the agreement, it would be up to the city to decide on major changes to the venue. And it benefits -- greatly -- from the team's success level, because it gets half the stadium revenue take, i.e. parking and concessions. Or something like that.

He said it was because they chipped in cash on the condition that it would be used for amateur sport. If the MLSE wants to put down grass: at minimum they would have to provide a similar winter-use field elsewhere.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I dunno... JDG's in the very prime of his career and is waaaaaay too good for this league. I'm sure it'll be someone good, though.

Unless it ends up being Judas De Guzman.

[jloome]

if i had my choice the grass field would come before a DP if we get the grass the easier getting a DP would be...But there might be a DP willing to play on field turf for a season or so...but who to get??

Trust me, there are a freakin' bundle of them. There are DP-level players all over the world who woudl score 20 a year for TFC. And given that we're already a sell-out, it doesn't have to be a marquee name. If a guy scores 20, the city's gonna sell out of his shirt anyway.

Again, I'll post the following names, all of which are either out of contract next year or in their last year, thus cheaper:

Kleber Boas - Santos forward

Washington (Cerqueira) - Fluminese forward

Liedson - Sporting Lisbon forward

Emad Moteab - Al Ittihad striker in Egypt

James Chamanga - Dalian in the Chinese premier league (we could have had him for next to nothing when I first suggested a year ago -- he';s only been in china for a few months and already has 14 goals.)

Tresor Mputu - Congolese wonderkid striker who is nevertheless still playing his domestic league -- averaging a goal per game. Big money move to Bristol Rovers this fall fell apart for some reason.

Alex - Fenerbace attacker would score at will in MLS.

Kevin Phillips - Signed a year-plus-a-year at Birmingham (I think I'm recalling that right) but isn't starting. Last big payday chance at 35.

Oleksandr Hladky - Top scorer (2007), runner up last year in Ukrainian premier league, is only 21. Given the money in that league, we probably can't afford him, even as a DP.

Maksim Shatskikh - Another Ukrainian league scoring machine, at Dinamo Kyiv.

Kenneth Fabricius - Prolific scorer in Danish first division, with SonderjyskE

[Roogsy]

^Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!

[David_Oliveira]

Trust me, there are a freakin' bundle of them. There are DP-level players all over the world who woudl score 20 a year for TFC. And given that we're already a sell-out, it doesn't have to be a marquee name. If a guy scores 20, the city's gonna sell out of his shirt anyway.

Again, I'll post the following names, all of which are either out of contract next year or in their last year, thus cheaper:

Kleber Boas - Santos forward

Washington (Cerqueira) - Fluminese forward

Liedson - Sporting Lisbon forward

Emad Moteab - Al Ittihad striker in Egypt

James Chamanga - Dalian in the Chinese premier league (we could have had him for next to nothing when I first suggested a year ago -- he';s only been in china for a few months and already has 14 goals.)

Tresor Mputu - Congolese wonderkid striker who is nevertheless still playing his domestic league -- averaging a goal per game. Big money move to Bristol Rovers this fall fell apart for some reason.

Alex - Fenerbace attacker would score at will in MLS.

Kevin Phillips - Signed a year-plus-a-year at Birmingham (I think I'm recalling that right) but isn't starting. Last big payday chance at 35.

Oleksandr Hladky - Top scorer (2007), runner up last year in Ukrainian premier league, is only 21. Given the money in that league, we probably can't afford him, even as a DP.

Maksim Shatskikh - Another Ukrainian league scoring machine, at Dinamo Kyiv.

Kenneth Fabricius - Prolific scorer in Danish first division, with SonderjyskE


Would love it but two reasons why he won't. Wants to stay at Sporting and the most important: knee surgery late last season

[druid]

A lot of this is cultural. Does anyone here watch the interviews after premiership matches? English managers are notoriously lacking in tact, with the exception of the top few, who are enormously lacking in it when it gains them an advantage.

This particular dance is known in Britain as "working your ticket".

Carver is setting the stage. Its possible that he wants out, either by getting fired or quitting. But this statement gives him both an excuse for the season's performance as well as an excuse to quit.

[jloome]

^Holy crap...you know a hell of a lot more players than I do. I only recognize a handful of your list!

But if they can score...I want them in TFC red!

Hey man, that's just a shortlist. I've got about 50 more like that that are either hole players, strikers or good centre halfs. I've been quite disappointed that several of them have been either bought cheap or snapped up for free in the last year while we've sat back and done quite little. I know at least one of the players on my shortlists Carlos Costly of Honduras, almost signed with TFC and he';s a very effective forward (although didn't make my DP cut).

[Cashcleaner]

Things are playing out exactly as I suspected they would.

Carver is demanding a DP because the fans are demanding a DP - and because we don't want to play catch-up with every other team in the league who does sign a DP. I also believe this ultimatum against MLSE is also an ultimatum against Mo who has failed to deliver on the promise of a "World IX" player and is likely frustrating Carver to no end.

Carver is one of us. He knows that we have a good head for footy and won't take whatever the club says hook, line, and sinker. He's looking at the financial resources behind the club and asking the relevant question (ie: why the hell are we 2 spots above the bottom of the table when we sell out every game and make money hand over fist?).

[werewolf]

James Chamanga - Dalian in the Chinese premier league (we could have had him for next to nothing when I first suggested a year ago -- he';s only been in china for a few months and already has 14 goals.)



Don't want to discredit you, but if your source is wikipedia, its worded wrong on his page. From what I can tell he has only 2 goals in Sept. and that was it. He was a machine for Moroka Swallows, finished as leading scorer last year, but I heard he was unsettled in China. As well as I think he can do here, a South African to China striker might not be what people have in mind for a DP. I think he could be had even now for cheaper.

5hRgpzRiMjc

I want to do some reading on what obstacles are in the way through Canadian immigration in regards to an African player. I remember asking MLSinTO awhile ago, but he really wasn't sure....

[jloome]

Don't want to discredit you, but if your source is wikipedia, its worded wrong on his page. From what I can tell he has only 2 goals in Sept. and that was it. He was a machine for Moroka Swallows, finished as leading scorer last year, but I heard he was unsettled in China. As well as I think he can do here, a South African to China striker might not be what people have in mind for a DP. I think he could be had even now for cheaper.

5hRgpzRiMjc

I want to do some reading on what obstacles are in the way through Canadian immigration in regards to an African player. I remember asking MLSinTO awhile ago, but he really wasn't sure....


Hahah, dude, "discredit you"? Don't take it so seriously! THat's the world of trying to track overseas players for you. You're right, he had a four-month drought; but there's also a Zambian 'net paper that suggests it's only an eight month deal anyway, so maybe he could be had cheaper. I think he's a hell of a lot better than this current slump is showing, as he was quite consistent in Africa, where hte play is more paced and technical, like MLS>

[werewolf]

Which paper was that? I do believe it was an 8-month deal. http://www.zambianfootball.net/?cat=54 (last paragraphs). There season ends in Dec. so he would be available for a pre-season camp...hmmm...not as a DP, but possibly worth a look. Let's make it happen.

[Axeman]

^People/teams want Carver...why are people on this forum so willing to let him go? When you have an asset, you don't just let it go on a whim!
I don't get it either, Carver is just what we need!
I'm gonna lose a lot of faith in the management if they let him go.

[mlsintoronto]

I also believe this ultimatum against MLSE is also an ultimatum against Mo who has failed to deliver on the promise of a "World IX" player and is likely frustrating Carver to no end.

easy cash - that was me who used that phrase, about 18 months ago, and when I said it it was world XI - thats deflation for you... We were, at the time, looking at a guy. which was truthful but well short of a promise.

[Shakes McQueen]

easy cash - that was me who used that phrase, about 18 months ago, and when I said it it was world XI - thats deflation for you... We were, at the time, looking at a guy. which was truthful but well short of a promise.

Are there any big name players on MLSE's radar for the DP slot next season, at this point? I know you can't name names, but I'd just be curious to know if those wheels have already started in motion.

- Scott

[giambac]

would you discuss your employment situation on these boards or to the media? so why should JC be different?

I think Carver is dreaming and wishing he had 2 other job opportunities to choose from. I'm almost certain it's all in his mind.

Actaully, I hope his statement is true. If so one of 2 things can happen

1) TFC gets a DP which the deperately need,

or
2) They don't get a DP and Carver leaves. This would be good also.

From my point of view either scenario is good.

Actually now that I think of it, I hope they don't get a DP by the start of next season, then Carver leaves and then a week or 2 weeks later they get a DP;)

That would be sweet, Im mean really sweet:yum:

[invictusTFC]

I respect Carver and the way he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this ultimatem is rubbing me the wrong way. Is this the only way he thinks this club can be competitive. I'm starting to get tired of this entire "lack of a DP" argument being used as an excuse to explain why this team hasn't been competitive this season.
Maybe Carver should look across the league and see how successfull teams with DP's have been.

LA- 2 DP's, last place
DC- 2 DP, struggling to make the playoffs
Dynamo- No DP's, two consecutive MLS Cups
NER - No DP,Perennial power in the East
Columbas - No DP, first place overall

The only team that has had some success this season with a DP is Chicago.

Maybe Carver should start looking at why he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players this season. Why did a team that looked so good on paper and had some pretty good success in the early part of the season struggle with inconsistency and "lack of motivation". If JC can answer those questions, then maybe he'll figure out the recipe for success in this league.

[jloome]

easy cash - that was me who used that phrase, about 18 months ago, and when I said it it was world XI - thats deflation for you... We were, at the time, looking at a guy. which was truthful but well short of a promise.

I think we'd all be quite interested in knowing the shortlisting procedure teams go through to find talent; everyone's a little peeved by that agent story and the fact that it looks like we're sole-sourcing talent.

[druid]

I respect Carver and the way he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this ultimatem is rubbing me the wrong way. Is this the only way he thinks this club can be competitive. I'm starting to get tired of this entire "lack of a DP" argument being used as an excuse to explain why this team hasn't been competitive this season.
Maybe Carver should look across the league and see how successfull teams with DP's have been.

LA- 2 DP's, last place
DC- 2 DP, struggling to make the playoffs
Dynamo- No DP's, two consecutive MLS Cups
NER - No DP,Perennial power in the East
Columbas - No DP, first place overall

The only team that has had some success this season with a DP is Chicago.

Maybe Carver should start looking at why he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players this season. Why did a team that looked so good on paper and had some pretty good success in the early part of the season struggle with inconsistency and "lack of motivation". If JC can answer those questions, then maybe he'll figure out the recipe for success in this league.

That's worth quoting.

[jloome]

I respect Carver and the way he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this ultimatem is rubbing me the wrong way. Is this the only way he thinks this club can be competitive. I'm starting to get tired of this entire "lack of a DP" argument being used as an excuse to explain why this team hasn't been competitive this season.
Maybe Carver should look across the league and see how successfull teams with DP's have been.

LA- 2 DP's, last place
DC- 2 DP, struggling to make the playoffs
Dynamo- No DP's, two consecutive MLS Cups
NER - No DP,Perennial power in the East
Columbas - No DP, first place overall

The only team that has had some success this season with a DP is Chicago.

Maybe Carver should start looking at why he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players this season. Why did a team that looked so good on paper and had some pretty good success in the early part of the season struggle with inconsistency and "lack of motivation". If JC can answer those questions, then maybe he'll figure out the recipe for success in this league.

Valid points but I don't think you can discount the fact that at least half our losses this year hung on badly blown scoring chances. To me, he's not looking for a saviour, he's looking for a problem solver. Honestly, if Juan Pablo Angel is sitting in front of our net when that ball rolls an inch from his toe in the Champions League qualifier, you think he pulls a Cunningham? And yet, the Red Bulls are struggling. In other words, it depends on circumstance. Our problem most of the time was scoring; it digressed into an effort or conviction issue based on a combination of travel fatigue and that dreaded feeling you get in a scoring slump that you're destined to lose. In the bad run, we averaged one goal per game. You can't win doing that consistently. With a DP striker of world-class finishing ability, we score two or three and win half those games. End of equation.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't think Carver's point was that our team couldn't compete without a DP, but that he wants the commitment from MLSE that they are going to use everything at their disposal to make this a competitive team.

Los Angeles is at the bottom of the league, yes - but that certainly isn't a result of the play of their DP's. Landycakes and Beckham are by far the best two players on the team. Their problem was just mismanagement and poor signings throughout the rest of the lineup (especially the backline).

Same with Chicago and New York. Angel and Blanco are the two best players on their respective teams, and Angel in particular has been instrumental in NY's ascension into playoff contention. New York's problem... again... has been on the backline recently.

A clinical finisher would do a lot for our club. Carver has helped Barrett get better the past couple of months, but we need someone who can put in the easy ones, as well as blast in the odd cracking skill shot.

I also don't think our team ever looked incredible on paper at the beginning of the season. And even if it did - we were quickly exposed as having a weakness on offense, because of the crap play from guys like Cunny, and Dichio's lengthy absence. We are just starting to fix this for the future, with Barrett, Ibbe, and hopefuly a DP.

I think Carver probably just recognizes the immense impact a DP could have on our club, and wants that commitment from the head office that they won't waste his time by half-assing it.

- Scott

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Invictus, dont think Carver is suggesting a DP will be the answer to our problems, however a DP certainly couldnt hurt. Sorta leave it at that cuz the last two posts more or less cover the same points i would.

[Roogsy]

Not to mention, if we REALLY want the type of success that NE and Houston have had...then TFC fans need to wait a few more years.

Those teams have had success because the teams have been developed over time, coaches have been stable and allowed to do their jobs and not had significant player movement.

And I bet you they'd be better with DPs added to the winning formula.

Toronto? We are freaking out after an expansion and sophomore season. There is no way to "rush" what Houston and NE have done. So this whole "they don't have DPs" argument doesn't fly with me.

[invictusTFC]

I think Carver probably just recognizes the immense impact a DP could have on our club, and wants that commitment from the head office that they won't waste his time by half-assing it.

- Scott

I agree, there is no doubt in my mind that any player with proven quality can make a difference. However, you have to be able to play to his strengths and get the best out of them. Adding another player to the mix but having the team continue to play lethargic uninspired football isn't going to solve the problem.
Sure we've had striking issues but my biggest concern through out the season has been the fact that the team often looked out of sync with each other. Our defense has looked very suspect in many games too. All I'm saying is that during the bad stretch of games that this team had it struggled to play as a cohesive unit. Several teams lack that clinical finisher but they still get results due to the way the team plays as a unit.

[druid]

I don't think Carver's point was that our team couldn't compete without a DP, but that he wants the commitment from MLSE that they are going to use everything at their disposal to make this a competitive team.

- Scott

I think invictusTFC point is that since Carver's stance can't be born out by the stats it looks more like Carvers searching for another excuse. One Carver assumes will resonate with the support.

Frankly, I think the support deserve a proven MLS manager from MLSE and not a DP picked by a bottom of the table management team.

I certainly wouldn't be jumping all over myself to get Carver's DP of choice if I worked at MLSE given how many times he's talked about quitting or getting canned in the last month or two. I'd make a new manager my priority and worry about the DP after that.

[jloome]

It was a more gradual decline than that, though. THe rough streak started after the June 14 win. We were equal on shots or outshot our opponents in about half our games over the next month (in which we played two meaningless, stupid friendlies with SA teams) and had five games over the course of just a few weeks, then collapsed for about about three weeks and were outshot 3-1 etc.

To me, that says you hit a rough patch due to fatigue and roster instability. Unfortunately, it was a lack of finish that started it, and that's the toughest slide to get out of.

[invictusTFC]

Invictus, dont think Carver is suggesting a DP will be the answer to our problems, however a DP certainly couldnt hurt. Sorta leave it at that cuz the last two posts more or less cover the same points i would.

Then why go public with an ultimatum to the club? Thats what pisses me off about this. Carver has to step up and accept some of the blame for what has gone wrong with the team this season. He's been quick to call out management and players when things have gone wrong but where has his accountability been.

You can go back on past posts and see that I've consistently been a JC supporter, but his antics have slowly gnawed away at me as the season has gone on. One win against the SHITE Bulls doesn't heel what has plagued this team all season. It may be the start of the healing process but will he be able to get this team to build on that?

Carver should show some humility, shut his freaken mouth till the end of the season and get some more results. Maybe then he can be justified in giving out ultimatums. Until then, he should just do his job and move on with it. He hasn't proven himself in this league yet...

[Shakes McQueen]

I think invictusTFC point is that since Carver's stance can't be born out by the stats it looks more like Carvers searching for another excuse. One Carver assumes will resonate with the support.

Frankly, I think the support deserve a proven MLS manager from MLSE and not a DP picked by a bottom of the table management team.

I certainly wouldn't be jumping all over myself to get Carver's DP of choice if I worked at MLSE given how many times he's talked about quitting or getting canned in the last month or two. I'd make a new manager my priority and worry about the DP after that.

Teams like New England and Houston tooks years to get where they are today, through picking up solid young players. New England especially.

A lot of people aren't giving Carver a reasonable chance to assemble the team he wants. He's been at it for a little under a season, with a team that has existed for another year past that.

I don't get people who think this is all an elaborate ruse to look good in the eyes of the supporters. Given his reaction to the "In Carver We Trust" banner, he already thinks he IS popular with the supporters.

His rapport in England is solid - there is no reason to think he is lying about the job offers inb England. Which means he has even less reason to come up with excuses - he could just go home to a job there.

- Scott

[olegunnar]

Then why go public with an ultimatum to the club? Thats what pisses me off about this. Carver has to step up and accept some of the blame for what has gone wrong with the team this season. He's been quick to call out management and players when things have gone wrong but where has his accountability been.

You can go back on past posts and see that I've consistently been a JC supporter, but his antics have slowly gnawed away at me as the season has gone on. One win against the SHITE Bulls doesn't heel what has plagued this team all season. It may be the start of the healing process but will he be able to get this team to build on that?

Carver should show some humility, shut his freaken mouth till the end of the season and get some more results. Maybe then he can be justified in giving out ultimatums. Until then, he should just do his job and move on with it. He hasn't proven himself in this league yet...

I still say it's Mo and the suits vs Carver and the supporters.

Why would Carver go on about a DP...that's not his job, it's Mo's

With player signings we get a whole lot of "we tried" "we have guys we're targetting" " we're working on things" which are all excuses.

Look at the post from the FO in this thread...well we were looking at a guy.

Well trying and looking at a guy are all nice...but show me the money.

I think Carver is being very unprofessional, but I really don't think he has an option since it seems like excuses and trying are acceptable with the suits, as long as the P&Ls look good.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Not to mention, if we REALLY want the type of success that NE and Houston have had...then TFC fans need to wait a few more years.

exactly, they have to put their spin on the team and that doesnt happen in one season

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Then why go public with an ultimatum to the club? Thats what pisses me off about this. Carver has to step up and accept some of the blame for what has gone wrong with the team this season. He's been quick to call out management and players when things have gone wrong but where has his accountability been.

You can go back on past posts and see that I've consistently been a JC supporter, but his antics have slowly gnawed away at me as the season has gone on. One win against the SHITE Bulls doesn't heel what has plagued this team all season. It may be the start of the healing process but will he be able to get this team to build on that?

Carver should show some humility, shut his freaken mouth till the end of the season and get some more results. Maybe then he can be justified in giving out ultimatums. Until then, he should just do his job and move on with it. He hasn't proven himself in this league yet...

I think we've discussed this topic in this thread (and other threads) and we still dont have an answer. Doesnt bother me that hes stated this. I dont think hes shifted blame on everyone but himself, i think hes doled it out appropriately (we can agree to disagree on this topic).

[invictusTFC]

A lot of people aren't giving Carver a reasonable chance to assemble the team he wants. He's been at it for a little under a season, with a team that has existed for another year past that.



- Scott

I'm all for giving JC time to build a team, but he's not asking for time, he's asking for a DP. He's giving management an ultimatum. Why do it now, when the team is still in contention for a playoff spot? Does this team need any more distractions right now?
He should just shut his trap and worry about winning the final few games of the season. When the season is over, then he can make his ultimatums when management can do something about it.
Right now we need a positive Carver, one who can motivate and inspire his team to a strong finish. Not one giving ultimatums and bringing more bad press and distractions to the club.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

as said previously it could be one of two reasons, hes planning on leaving (but looking like he doesnt want to/loves the team/etc) with face or because he really really feels a DP would make all the difference in the world and we are getting one.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I do kind of agree we dont need the added stress to the team and he should shut his mouth. The third option is that MLSE has decided to not resign and has another coach in mind

[olegunnar]

A lot of people aren't giving Carver a reasonable chance to assemble the team he wants.


Isn't that Mo's job?

If not, what is Mo's job?

[giambac]

Isn't that Mo's job?

If not, what is Mo's job?

His # 1 job during th eoffseason is to evalaute his players performance and his coaches performance. In my books several players would get a failing grade. The coach would get a failing grade.

Then he has to make decision swhether to keep or let them go. Carver is out.

I'd keep, Sutton, Wynne, Brennan,Robinson, Ricketts, J. Smith, Barrett.

That's 7 starters.
I would keep a few 2 or 3 of the bench players and the remaining 4 starters position and bench players should be filled by new acquisitions.
We need 2 CB's, 2 Mid fielders and a quality striker.

[Shakes McQueen]

Isn't that Mo's job?

If not, what is Mo's job?

Carver stated in a previous interview, that he basically tells Mo what kinds of players he wants, and then it's Mo's job to go out and make it happen.

And according to interviews with Mo, that latter step has posed problems, because of our location, and playing surface.

It should be noted that I think Mo's technical title is "Director of Football Operations", which I assume means he has more than the traditional GM duties.

- Scott

[olegunnar]

Carver stated in a previous interview, that he basically tells Mo what kinds of players he wants, and then it's Mo's job to go out and make it happen.

And according to interviews with Mo, that latter step has posed problems, because of our location, and playing surface.

It should be noted that I think Mo's technical title is "Director of Football Operations", which I assume means he has more than the traditional GM duties.

- Scott

Not picking a fight with you.
I'm also not saying I think Carver is being professional.
I'm also not saying or endorsing the job he's done this year.

I just think it's unfortunate that certain people get promotions for coming in last, and others are left to clean up the mess.
I also think that it's unfortunate that certain people seem to get away with bullshit and excuses "I tried" "we've got some irons in the fire", while at the same time the standings don't award points for trying.

I'm not sure what my total opinion is on Carver, but I really feel for the guy. He's kind of stuck out there by himself defending the results while other people that make more money and do less, sit around in pubs and tv studios doing dick all but cashing cheques.

[invictusTFC]

Putting Mo and Carver's individual performances aside, I think MLSE needs to hire a spokesperson for the club. Mo gives you nothing except vague gibberish "We're looking at a guy, from France, one from Sweden and one from Uzbekistan". While Carver's propensity for wearing his emotions on his sleeve make him say stupid things that can rub players the wrong way...

[fetajr]

with this ultimatum and pressure, MO will probably sign some shitty and ineffective DP just for the sake of getting a DP.

[ensco]

Having slept on this, and read the whole thread from beginning to end....

What Carver is doing is insubordinate, even if he's right. Carver is gone.

Probably at the end of the season, as it's hard to imagine Mo taking him out now, no matter how much he might want to.

All of you who think this is "normal", and that we don't understand the nuances of blunt-spoken English managers.....give me a break. It's not the same. This goes way beyond what anyone, in any league, would say.

[fetajr]

That's worth quoting.


Valid points but I don't think you can discount the fact that at least half our losses this year hung on badly blown scoring chances. To me, he's not looking for a saviour, he's looking for a problem solver. Honestly, if Juan Pablo Angel is sitting in front of our net when that ball rolls an inch from his toe in the Champions League qualifier, you think he pulls a Cunningham? And yet, the Red Bulls are struggling. In other words, it depends on circumstance. Our problem most of the time was scoring; it digressed into an effort or conviction issue based on a combination of travel fatigue and that dreaded feeling you get in a scoring slump that you're destined to lose. In the bad run, we averaged one goal per game. You can't win doing that consistently. With a DP striker of world-class finishing ability, we score two or three and win half those games. End of equation.


I respect Carver and the way he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this ultimatem is rubbing me the wrong way. Is this the only way he thinks this club can be competitive. I'm starting to get tired of this entire "lack of a DP" argument being used as an excuse to explain why this team hasn't been competitive this season.
Maybe Carver should look across the league and see how successfull teams with DP's have been.

LA- 2 DP's, last place
DC- 2 DP, struggling to make the playoffs
Dynamo- No DP's, two consecutive MLS Cups
NER - No DP,Perennial power in the East
Columbus - No DP, first place overall

The only team that has had some success this season with a DP is Chicago.

Maybe Carver should start looking at why he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players this season. Why did a team that looked so good on paper and had some pretty good success in the early part of the season struggle with inconsistency and "lack of motivation". If JC can answer those questions, then maybe he'll figure out the recipe for success in this league.

Columbus did great scouting by going to Argentina and digging up Barros Schellotto for nothing, something i've been preaching since day one. Why pay DP money for one sack of shit if you can get 5 Argentians for the same money that produce much more, and will never be called to play for their national team!?!?!??!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Columbus also has a young team that Sigi schmidt has built over the last 2-4 years, something people are too impatient to wait for. Schelotto is basically a DP but they are paying him under the table (anyone wanna look that article up)

[Oldtimer]

Having slept on this, and read the whole thread from beginning to end....

What Carver is doing is insubordinate, even if he's right. Carver is gone.

Probably at the end of the season, as it's hard to imagine Mo taking him out now, no matter how much he might want to.

All of you who think this is "normal", and that we don't understand the nuances of blunt-spoken English managers.....give me a break. It's not the same. This goes way beyond what anyone, in any league, would say.

Mo's "master plan" would be working, then.
TFC continues to be crap because of poor signings.
Mo deftly deflects the blame on Carver.
Mo stays, Carver goes.
Mo's move to GM pays off.
Mo continues to dither and we pick up other teams' scraps (he excuses the dithering because of "the turf." There's a great Brazilian, Argentinian, EPL DP, etc. who he was just about to sign but then they found out about the turf).
We continue to field a crappy team for year 3.
A new victim steps up to be coach.

Somebody please tell me this is not true!!! :ack2:

[Hitcho]

Mo's "master plan" would be working, then.
TFC continues to be crap because of poor signings.
Mo deftly deflects the blame on Carver.
Mo stays, Carver goes.
Mo's move to GM pays off.
Mo continues to dither and we pick up other teams' scraps (he excuses the dithering because of "the turf." There's a great Brazilian, Argentinian, EPL DP, etc. who he was just about to sign but then they found out about the turf).
We continue to field a crappy team for year 3.
A new victim steps up to be coach.

Somebody please tell me this is not true!!! :ack2:

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

its not true, its all speculation on your part

[Hitcho]

Mo's actually a good deal broker and has made some astute moves this season and last season. As long as he works with JC and not against him I have no issue with them both staying in their roles (as well as some effin' stupid ones, but all managers do that). But if he tries to pull the rug from under Carver's feet then I say give him the shunt. Carver is WAY more important to TFC than Mo is.

[Shakes McQueen]

Yeah, I can't get over the crazy theories, and over-exaggerating takes people are offering about what was essentially one line in a news piece, haha.

Some of you guys will find anything to get worked up about. :D

- Scott

[shwade]

I really don't think Mo will sack Carver, he knows the majority of supporters have his back. I do see Mo getting sacked after next season if we don't make playoffs though.

[fetajr]

That's worth quoting.


Valid points but I don't think you can discount the fact that at least half our losses this year hung on badly blown scoring chances. To me, he's not looking for a saviour, he's looking for a problem solver. Honestly, if Juan Pablo Angel is sitting in front of our net when that ball rolls an inch from his toe in the Champions League qualifier, you think he pulls a Cunningham? And yet, the Red Bulls are struggling. In other words, it depends on circumstance. Our problem most of the time was scoring; it digressed into an effort or conviction issue based on a combination of travel fatigue and that dreaded feeling you get in a scoring slump that you're destined to lose. In the bad run, we averaged one goal per game. You can't win doing that consistently. With a DP striker of world-class finishing ability, we score two or three and win half those games. End of equation.


I respect Carver and the way he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this ultimatem is rubbing me the wrong way. Is this the only way he thinks this club can be competitive. I'm starting to get tired of this entire "lack of a DP" argument being used as an excuse to explain why this team hasn't been competitive this season.
Maybe Carver should look across the league and see how successfull teams with DP's have been.

LA- 2 DP's, last place
DC- 2 DP, struggling to make the playoffs
Dynamo- No DP's, two consecutive MLS Cups
NER - No DP,Perennial power in the East
Columbus - No DP, first place overall

The only team that has had some success this season with a DP is Chicago.

Maybe Carver should start looking at why he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players this season. Why did a team that looked so good on paper and had some pretty good success in the early part of the season struggle with inconsistency and "lack of motivation". If JC can answer those questions, then maybe he'll figure out the recipe for success in this league.

Columbus did great scouting by going to Argentina and digging up Barros Schellotto for nothing, something i've been preaching since day one. Why pay DP money for one sack of shit if you can get 5 Argentinians for the same money that produce much more, and will never be called to play for their national team!?!?!??!

[Yohan]

Teams like New England and Houston tooks years to get where they are today, through picking up solid young players. New England especially.

A lot of people aren't giving Carver a reasonable chance to assemble the team he wants. He's been at it for a little under a season, with a team that has existed for another year past that.

I don't get people who think this is all an elaborate ruse to look good in the eyes of the supporters. Given his reaction to the "In Carver We Trust" banner, he already thinks he IS popular with the supporters.

His rapport in England is solid - there is no reason to think he is lying about the job offers inb England. Which means he has even less reason to come up with excuses - he could just go home to a job there.

- Scott
Curious. How many years has Nichol and Kinnear been at their respective clubs?

Surely they had years to build up a team (and what TFC is doing now, with all the draft picks and dev players Mo is gathering up)

[Roogsy]

Hey wait a sec....isn't Schelotto a DP???

Doesn't that blow a hole into that whole "no DP" theory?

The guy has been MVP multiple times since arriving. His impact is unquestionable. Even if he is a diving sack of shit.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

hes getting paid 300k with a bunch under the table whcih isnt accounted for, but if all was over the table, yes, he'd be a dp, a lower end dp but a dp none hte less

[Roogsy]

You're right. He's getting 1mill per year but something about a much lower base salary. I wonder how they account for the remaining portion of his compensation? :noidea:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2007/04/18/crew0418.ART_ART_04-18-07_F1_H06DSKO.html

[Oldtimer]

its not true, its all speculation on your part

Thanks... I needed that.

The mental anguish of year 2 (combined with some of the ravings on this board) is getting to me.

[Shakes McQueen]

Thanks... I needed that.

The mental anguish of year 2 (combined with some of the ravings on this board) is getting to me.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. :D

- Scott

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Thanks... I needed that.

The mental anguish of year 2 (combined with some of the ravings on this board) is getting to me.
HAHAH
you and me both, we deserve purple hearts for the work we do

[Terry]

I love Carver.

[Cashcleaner]

easy cash - that was me who used that phrase, about 18 months ago, and when I said it it was world XI - thats deflation for you... We were, at the time, looking at a guy. which was truthful but well short of a promise.

Then YOU are the target of my unquenchable wrath!!!

Cash....is....ANGRY!!!

http://www.factology.com/hulk_bill_bixby.jpg (http://www.factology.com/hulk_bill_bixby.jpg)


While we're at it, though, what ever happened to that "Big name Italian"? ;)

[jloome]

Nascar's posted a link elsewhere here where Mo is saying on his GOL tv bit that they're putting a DP proposal to the board Nov. 12. At least, that's what it sounds like. Could be Glaswegian for "I'm vacationing in Aruba Nov. 12" for all I fucking know.

Anyhow, I suspect Carver was using his willingness to take a metaphorical bullet for the team to get a DP to motivate the players, who are probably rather miffed at Carlos Ruiz right now, or at the very least questioning his dramatic recovery.

[Pronto]

^hey we all call in sick once in a blue moon... some do it better then others... i wounder if he'll still be on our team in April

[invictusTFC]

Ruiz continues to prove on and off the pitch that it comes to being a "little bitch", nobody's better. Enjoy you're little game in Guatamala you little c_nt. I'm sure you'll actually put in an effort instead of feigning injury. Don't worry about the club that actually pays your fucking bills or anything...

[fetajr]

Ruiz continues to prove on and off the pitch that it comes to being a "little bitch", nobody's better. Enjoy you're little game in Guatamala you little c_nt. I'm sure you'll actually put in an effort instead of feigning injury. Don't worry about the club that actually pays your fucking bills or anything...

just an example of another stiff brought in by Mo... Mo knew the baggage that came with Ruiz.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

once again at that moment that the trade happened there were few options, we traded nothing and could have had something. its no big deal it didnt work out.
Im more worked up about the time Mo spent trying to sign Dickov as opposed to signing a striker that a) was younger and b) would have signed with us

[Chevy]

^^ agree. It was a gamble with little downside. Ruiz will be sent on his way at the end of the season and be forgotten by all soon after.

[fetajr]

there are lots of options in the football world. I don't believe Mo taps all resources when looking for players relative to his budget. Why Ruiz?..b/c he's played in MLS?..big deal, look in Argentina and I'll find you dozens of strikers who are better, younger and cheaper.

[Roogsy]

^^ agree. It was a gamble with little downside. Ruiz will be sent on his way at the end of the season and be forgotten by all soon after.

And then sign in the US, put in a good effort and score a bucket of goals.

I am tired of all the players playing for TFC and giving dick-all.

[Pachuco]

I said this in the Today's news thread.

Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.

It's pretty simple if you ask me. He's a terrible coach. We have someone that has our back, that's great, because at time's he shown he doesn't have his own players backs. He doesn't get results either, which doesn't help.

[Cashcleaner]

Quote:
Carver has always had our backs and continues to think of the fans.

How people on this board can want him gone, makes me angry but not as much as it makes me very sad.

Carver is the best thing that happened to this club this year, period.

It's pretty simple if you ask me. He's a terrible coach. We have someone that has our back, that's great, because at time's he shown he doesn't have his own players backs. He doesn't get results either, which doesn't help.

Not very many at all. It's just that the ones who do want him gone post about it every other day.

[invictusTFC]

once again at that moment that the trade happened there were few options, we traded nothing and could have had something. its no big deal it didnt work out.
Im more worked up about the time Mo spent trying to sign Dickov as opposed to signing a striker that a) was younger and b) would have signed with us

Maybe it didn't cost the team in terms of personnel or the future of the club. However, consider what it might be costing the team internally. Ruiz as far as I am aware is earning more than any other player on this team, and the few games he's played, he has looked horrid (and got both starts BTW). He looked as if he was going through the motions out there while players like Dichio, Ibbe and a host of others who give consistent efforts were ridding the pine. Look at how the team and Barrett in particular has played without Ruiz in the line-up.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I dont think its affected the team internally otherwise and not to be a dick but what youre suggesting is all speculation. Im certain that everyone is aware who he is, what his background is as well as what his expiration date is. As for people riding the pine, they had a chance previous to his signing to prove themselves and they didnt, as a result he was brought in with the intentions of him contributing. hes been injured, called for internationals and played what? 2 games? with a team he did not know prior to the trade. I dont think anyone is holding a grudge. Unless you know of any little birdies telling you differently...

[Shakes McQueen]

there are lots of options in the football world. I don't believe Mo taps all resources when looking for players relative to his budget. Why Ruiz?..b/c he's played in MLS?..big deal, look in Argentina and I'll find you dozens of strikers who are better, younger and cheaper.

The international transfer window had closed, but the intra-MLS trade window hadn't. Ruiz was the best deal Mo could have made, in those circumstances.

No harm no foul. We got him for almost nothing, aside from his salary (which we had more than enough cap space for anyway). We tried to see if his scoring touch would be re-ignited in Toronto, and so far, it hasn't. Worst case scenario, we were back in the position we would have been in anyway - which is where we are now.

It should be noted that Ruiz, while not lighting the world on fire in his time here, has made some pretty good passes and runs. Specifically, he sent Barrett on at least two breakaways to the goal in the first of our two recent Chivas USA matches, which Barrett didn't finish.

I agree that Mo shouldn't have put all of his eggs in one basket with the Dickov deal, which left us empty handed at the close of the transfer window - but the Ruiz deal was worth a shot, in my opinion.

And who knows, maybe he will light it up if he comes back before the season's end. He has only played a couple of matches with the club, after all.

I don't think we should re-sign him, however. Borrowing him for the remainder of this season was a decent attempt at salvaging the season, but he's a bit too old and injury ridden to be this club's future - which is where we should be looking. Especially at the salary he wants.

- Scott

[giambac]

The international transfer window had closed, but the intra-MLS trade window hadn't. Ruiz was the best deal Mo could have made, in those circumstances.

No harm no foul. We got him for almost nothing, aside from his salary (which we had more than enough cap space for anyway). We tried to see if his scoring touch would be re-ignited in Toronto, and so far, it hasn't. Worst case scenario, we were back in the position we would have been in anyway - which is where we are now.

It should be noted that Ruiz, while not lighting the world on fire in his time here, has made some pretty good passes and runs. Specifically, he sent Barrett on at least two breakaways to the goal in the first of our two recent Chivas USA matches, which Barrett didn't finish.

I agree that Mo shouldn't have put all of his eggs in one basket with the Dickov deal, which left us empty handed at the close of the transfer window - but the Ruiz deal was worth a shot, in my opinion.

And who knows, maybe he will light it up if he comes back before the season's end. He has only played a couple of matches with the club, after all.

I don't think we should re-sign him, however. Borrowing him for the remainder of this season was a decent attempt at salvaging the season, but he's a bit too old and injury ridden to be this club's future - which is where we should be looking. Especially at the salary he wants.

- Scott

Are you talking baout Carver here????:confused:

[invictusTFC]

I dont think its affected the team internally otherwise and not to be a dick but what youre suggesting is all speculation. Im certain that everyone is aware who he is, what his background is as well as what his expiration date is. As for people riding the pine, they had a chance previous to his signing to prove themselves and they didnt, as a result he was brought in with the intentions of him contributing. hes been injured, called for internationals and played what? 2 games? with a team he did not know prior to the trade. I dont think anyone is holding a grudge. Unless you know of any little birdies telling you differently...

You're probably right. i'm just bitter. The fucker is probably gonna go off to Guatemala score a goal or two and then comeback and shit the bed for us in the final two games of the season or worse, get hurt once more all of a sudden.

Is it wrong for me to want the players I support to play hard and put in a serious effort?

And no, I don't have any insight into what goes on behind closed doors at TFC. Some people may argue that I have no insight at all. Of course that was pure speculation on my part, but it is no more speculation than 90% of the other crap that is suggested on this forum

[Ossington Mental Youth]

HAHAHA totally, i wouldnt stress it and theres absolutely nothing wrong with wanting our players to play hard and their best. I think we will see Ruiz on the bench in guatamala and not dressed (he is captain) and i dont think we will see much out of him for the rest of the season simply because hes been injured, its a new team yadda yadda.

Speculation on my part:
I think he will pull an Amado, go to Guatamuala or elsewhere, play for a year, collect his head and get into shape as well as play well and possibly come back to the MLS. We will still have his rights, im assuming and we will trade them off as ideally at that point he will no longer be needed no matter how good he looks.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

also we may see how he does in the off season and if hes better, more fit we may resign him to a smaller salary. theres no way that dude is getting paid the same with the last two season behind him. I do think hes getting rough treatment here by supporters as hes not had alot of time to prove himself, that being said im not entirely sure that he has a whole lot to offer. i dont think he'd be useless like Cunningham but i dont think hed be back to his old form. I have seen a few passes, flicks and runs that show promise but thats just promise until something bigger happens.

[invictusTFC]

^^^ That creates another question: Is Cunny really useless, or was he just useless in TFC's system. The guy has already scored more goals in a handfull of games for Dallas than he did the two season (give or take) that he was here...

As far as Ruiz is concerned, I expected more of him quite frankly. You'd think after being in the dog house at LA for most of the season he'd come here and try to make a good impression in the first few games he played. Other than "a few passes, flicks and runs" he did nothing. He was invisible for the majority of the time that he was on the field. I know he is new to the team and all, but so was Huckerby in SJ and he immediately put his stamp on that team.

[giambac]

^^^ That creates another question: Is Cunny really useless, or was he just useless in TFC's system. The guy has already scored more goals in a handfull of games for Dallas than he did the two season (give or take) that he was here...

As far as Ruiz is concerned, I expected more of him quite frankly. You'd think after being in the dog house at LA for most of the season he'd come here and try to make a good impression in the first few games he played. Other than "a few passes, flicks and runs" he did nothing. He was invisible for the majority of the time that he was on the field. I know he is new to the team and all, but so was Huckerby in SJ and he immediately put his stamp on that team.

People will disagree with me on this but I strongly believe Cunny isn't as useless as people say he is. I think it was the situation he was put in, the system we palyed (or I mean the lack of a system), the poor coaching on our side.

I mean how can a player who was a proven goal scorer in this league have the problems he had on our team and then the day after he is traded regains his scoring touch?
He was playing for a coach who constantly was throwing him under the teams bus. He was backstabbing him in the publec media. He showed no confidence for Cunny. How can a player play under such conditions.

What I found really odd and was the final act that toatlly turned Carver off for me was that we all new that Mo was trying to unload Cunny. So why in the Fuck would Carver at time Mo is trying to trade him speak badly about Cunny. I mean you are trying to get something in return for the guy but what team is going to give you something when Carver is shooting his mouth off saying that he is shit. Does Carver have a brain? Did he not realize that waht he was doing and saying was counter effective to his boss and team?

I hope TFC wins this Saturday vs FC Dallas because we need the 3 points, HOWEVER, if we are to lose then I hope it's Cunny who scores the winner and then runs by Carver and moons him becasue that's what he deserves for his dumbass actions which have hurt this team in more ways then one.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

- Cunny - combination of both i believe, everyone said prior to his arrival that he was a locker room cancer, he did ok for a bit then got injured and didnt make a comeback. Started this year ok and went downhill from there. Ill wait to see how he does next year for a final verdict. I rooted for the guy for a long time and near the end turned on him. Cant say i feel bad about it

-Ruiz and huckerby are two diff players. Huckerby was in shape and just coming off a season. i do see what youre saying tho. Dont know if i agree he was invisible, he certainly wasnt carving up the field tho and i dont think we are wrong to expect it somewhat judging by his history. Then again we do have to think about how he was doing in LA where he was getting pretty decent service from Secksy Becksy as well as everyone (including myself) previous hatred for him...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I really really dont like Cunny but apparently hes worked with the coach at Dallas before which does help, as does a new environment. I dont see him doing what hes doing in Dallas here and i do think it was necessary to rid of him.

[Oldtimer]

Cunningham actually has been amazingly inconsistent. Great on some teams, horrible on others. People say he has an attitude problem with some coaches.

giambac - stop the dishonesty, you were down on Carver ever since he played his second squad to "keep the shirt." Cunningham had nothing to do with it. You're also forgetting that Carver initially tried to work with Cunningham, calling him "an important part of the team." It was missing that sitter that sent Montreal into the CCL that caused Carver to criticize him. We all did too. My 10-year-old could have done that shot.

[giambac]

Cunningham actually has been amazingly inconsistent. Great on some teams, horrible on others. People say he has an attitude problem with some coaches.

giambac - stop the dishonesty, you were down on Carver ever since he played his second squad to "keep the shirt." Cunningham had nothing to do with it. You're also forgetting that Carver initially tried to work with Cunningham, calling him "an important part of the team." It was missing that sitter that sent Montreal into the CCL that caused Carver to criticize him. We all did too. My 10-year-old could have done that shot.

Correct I was down on Carver ever since he played his second squad vs KC (which now looks like will cost us a playoff spot). What my post says is that what he did to Cunny was the final straw that broke the camels back.

I know Cunny wa splaying bad, he missed opportunities. However, Mo was trying to trade the guy. If you want to speak openely about the guy wait until Mo has traded him. You don't need a university degree to figure that out. Didn't Carver realize that what he was saying and the timing of when he was saying it wasn't appropriate? HE Should have used COMMON SENSE!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Carver was speaking GOD's words back then....

I love Carver!! I think Carver is smarter than MoJo...

I side with Carver.

[Kevvv]

http://www.dremach.com/images/cobwebs.jpg

[TFCREDNWHITE]

^^ So true....

[Azerban]

YEAH what have those bastards done for us lately?!?!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/images/media/20070912_De_Rosario_www.jpg




oh right

[James17930]

YEAH what have those bastards done for us lately?!?!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/images/media/20070912_De_Rosario_www.jpg




oh right

QFT.

He's our DP. Get used to it.

[nascarguy]

yeah

[SLBuu]

^People/teams want Carver...why are people on this forum so willing to let him go? When you have an asset, you don't just let it go on a whim!


because for some reason some people seem to think 3 coaches in 3 years will some how be beneficial to Toronto FC and win us an MLS Cup.

:noidea::noidea::noidea:

[Marco2K]

Hey i am very happy to have DERO. But a solid Dp pick up could put us over the top.

[boban]

QFT.

He's our DP. Get used to it.
Waste of money if thats the case.
Quality player. No where near DP though.

[Bars92]

I blame MLSE and their profiteering ways, not Mo. Where the hell is the DP??

[Shakes McQueen]

Hey i am very happy to have DERO. But a solid Dp pick up could put us over the top.

DeRo doesn't solve our lack of a strong finisher up front. He also doesn't shore up our weak, undermanned defense.

I'm kind of perturbed by the number of people who are willing to say "he brought us DeRo - that is enough".

DeRo makes our midfield a force to be reckoned with, and gives us a ranged threat. But last I checked, our midfield wasn't our weak point last season.

I'm not insistent that we NEED a DP - but we need higher calibre players up front, and at the back. And with a lot of cap space left to burn, allocation out the ass, as well as an empty DP spot - this would be a good time to get on the DP bandwagon.

- Scott

[jloome]

My fear is that Johnson is so focussed on building from youth that they'll spend all of their time working on draft-based signings. We're already seeing discussions between other teams (mostly seattle and san jose) and notable European players, but not a peep out of here.

My suspicion is that that has more to do with media silence for competitive reasons on the club's part and a willingness to let the issue go because it's the off season on the part of the media.

In fact, with two more months to go before the season starts, we've still got a lot of time to make moves.

[Cashcleaner]

Just read the article again about Carver's ultimatum. It's fitting when you figure that so much recent talk on the subject has been rekindled lately, so just give me a sec as I put the same old record on once again...

Carver has shown time and time again that he's on the side of the supporters; and if people don't recognise that fact, I'm afraid there is no hope for them. If you can't see with your own eyes how much this guy wants the club to succeed, I don't think you'll ever really "get it".

When the subject of Designated Players first came up, Mo and MLSE came up with all the caveats and non-committal remarks they could muster. And most of us believe exactly what they were saying. Now, here we are in 2009 selling out season ticket packages in the span of a week or so and still raking in the dough second only to the Galaxy with regards to revenue.

We deserve a DP and we deserve a coach like John Carver.

[BuSaPuNk]

Carver has shown time and time again that he's on the side of the supporters; and if people don't recognise that fact, I'm afraid there is no hope for them. If you can't see with your own eyes how much this guy wants the club to succeed, I don't think you'll ever really "get it".

When the subject of Designated Players first came up, Mo and MLSE came up with all the caveats and non-committal remarks they could muster. And most of us believe exactly what they were saying. Now, here we are in 2009 selling out season ticket packages in the span of a week or so and still raking in the dough second only to the Galaxy with regards to revenue.

We deserve a DP and we deserve a coach like John Carver.

Well said. There is still lots of time to get a DP done and add a CB or two.

[Cashcleaner]

^ I hope so. I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but I'm pulling out hair over the lack of official word on this.

[invictusTFC]

Don't get me wrong, if we get a good DP striker I'll be thrilled. However, I'll also be cautious because I'd be interested to see what kind of moves Mo will need to make to accommodate the DP. Between DeRo and a new DP, all the allocation money Mo has stockpiled will be virtually used up which will mean that the club will have little flexibility to sign a good CB which we can all agree this club needs. Will Mo ship Marshall to Seattle? Will this team have to sacrifice a player like Ricketts for example? I know that we have some terrible deficiencies in the goal scoring department, but will we have to get even weaker in other areas just to accomodate a DP? A balanced team is a good team, we can score a 4 or 5 goals a game, but it won't help us if we are allowing the opposition to score 5 or 6. Just ask the LA Galaxy.

I think the DP has been made more of an issue due to statements made by management and JC in the past. It got the fans' hopes up, and as you can see by some of the comments on this thread, many people now feel like a DP is the only way TFC can become competitive. All I'm saying is that we should be carefull what we wish for. We're talking about a league with a pathetically small cap. Personally, I'd be happy to see the club acquire a solid CB before the start of the season and another serviceable striker. Acquiring a DP in June when there are more options and the cap hit is less might not be a bad thing.

As far as JC's ultimatum goes, I think its important to note that he said them in context to how the team was constituted at that moment. I do not think that he expected to have a player like DeRo in the mix for the beginning of this season. With one acquisition, the club has already improved its offensive look dramatically. JC is a smart man, and I don't think he'll want to mortgage the depth of the team just to accomodate a DP.

[Beach_Red]

My suspicion is that that has more to do with media silence for competitive reasons on the club's part and a willingness to let the issue go because it's the off season on the part of the media.


I think you're right. Every player agent in the world knows TFC is looking to deal - the more pressure on the team to get a player, the more agents will raise the price.

We know we'll have to "overpay" to get someone to come to Toronto, the question is how much are we willing to overpay?

[TorontoBlades]

We don't have to overpay anyone...MLSE does, and they have tons of practice and are well versed in the art of it....

[brad]

Don't get me wrong, if we get a good DP striker I'll be thrilled. However, I'll also be cautious because I'd be interested to see what kind of moves Mo will need to make to accommodate the DP. Between DeRo and a new DP, all the allocation money Mo has stockpiled will be virtually used up which will mean that the club will have little flexibility to sign a good CB which we can all agree this club needs. Will Mo ship Marshall to Seattle? Will this team have to sacrifice a player like Ricketts for example? I know that we have some terrible deficiencies in the goal scoring department, but will we have to get even weaker in other areas just to accomodate a DP? A balanced team is a good team, we can score a 4 or 5 goals a game, but it won't help us if we are allowing the opposition to score 5 or 6. Just ask the LA Galaxy.

I think the DP has been made more of an issue due to statements made by management and JC in the past. It got the fans' hopes up, and as you can see by some of the comments on this thread, many people now feel like a DP is the only way TFC can become competitive. All I'm saying is that we should be carefull what we wish for. We're talking about a league with a pathetically small cap. Personally, I'd be happy to see the club acquire a solid CB before the start of the season and another serviceable striker. Acquiring a DP in June when there are more options and the cap hit is less might not be a bad thing.

As far as JC's ultimatum goes, I think its important to note that he said them in context to how the team was constituted at that moment. I do not think that he expected to have a player like DeRo in the mix for the beginning of this season. With one acquisition, the club has already improved its offensive look dramatically. JC is a smart man, and I don't think he'll want to mortgage the depth of the team just to accomodate a DP.

Excellent post.

[invictusTFC]

We don't have to overpay anyone...MLSE does, and they have tons of practice and are well versed in the art of it....

No matter how much MLSE pays for a DP, $400k will go against the cap which will limit how they can improve elsewhere. Mo has stockpiled 3 first round picks. If he can trade those picks for some decent allocation money that may facilitate his ability to bring in a solid CB for example. Now, if he can't then he might have to move some players i.e. Ricketts or Marshall. Furthermore, the DP cap hit will prove fruitless if the DP doesn't make the expected impact he needs to make. For every JP Angel, there is a bunch of Denilsons, Claudio Lopezes and Claudio Reinas.

[lufc1919]

Let Carver go if he wants too. Toronto FC could do much better.

[romburgundy]

^^
Carver Haters in the house if you see them point them out

[T_Mizz]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ruiz a 400k cap hit? Just replace him with a capable DP striker, no?

[jloome]

Let Carver go if he wants too. Toronto FC could do much better.

Ok, I'll bite: who's available and likely to come to Toronto right now whom you'd rather have coaching?

[Shakes McQueen]

Ok, I'll bite: who's available and likely to come to Toronto right now whom you'd rather have coaching?

I agree. I'm also saddened to see we are going to have this argument again, haha.

As I said all last season - Carver is a great coach. He has passion, the players love the guy, he loves the city, and he managed to get a lot of of our squad when they were healthy, and half of them weren't missing to international duty.

- Scott

[lufc1919]

So John Carver has enough respect for Toronto FC and the fans, that he is prepared to leave over a potential signing? Instead of dealing with this issue "In House" with Mo and MLSE, he brings yet more media attention to the club by issuing ultimatums?. Carver can run his mouth as much as he wants, this is a results orientated business and thus how a manager must be judged. Let the talking be done on the pitch. Is
$1 million in allocation money and three first-round draft picks not enough of an incentive to stay and build on what he already has? I just think its a shame to read on here a few people who are taking in by gimmicks and words.

[TFC OZZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ruiz a 400k cap hit? Just replace him with a capable DP striker, no?

We're only paying a small portion of his slary

[S_D]

Just read the article again about Carver's ultimatum. It's fitting when you figure that so much recent talk on the subject has been rekindled lately, so just give me a sec as I put the same old record on once again...


Well according to Mo in those gol TV interviews I linked to, Carver was talking tongue-in-cheek :rolleyes:

We of course all know differently.... Mo can only blow so much smoke up supporters asses before he is going to be called to account.

[Shakes McQueen]

So John Carver has enough respect for Toronto FC and the fans, that he is prepared to leave over a potential signing? Instead of dealing with this issue "In House" with Mo and MLSE, he brings yet more media attention to the club by issuing ultimatums?. Carver can run his mouth as much as he wants, this is a results orientated business and thus how a manager must be judged. Let the talking be done on the pitch. Is
$1 million in allocation money and three first-round draft picks not enough of an incentive to stay and build on what he already has? I just think its a shame to read on here a few people who are taking in by gimmicks and words.

lufc, you might not have noticed, but this thread, and Carvers comments, are months old. He actually retracted some of this rant in conversations with the media that followed.

I also don't see a problem in him using whatever leverage he has to pressure the club into spending the money he thinks needs to be spent to make this team a contender.

In this case, going to the media and saying we need a DP, is about the best way to exercise his leverage.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

Well according to Mo in those gol TV interviews I linked to, Carver was talking tongue-in-cheek :rolleyes:

We of course all know differently.... Mo can only blow so much smoke up supporters asses before he is going to be called to account.

If the team makes the playoffs this year, nobody will care.

[invictusTFC]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ruiz a 400k cap hit? Just replace him with a capable DP striker, no?

He was acquired just before the trade deadline, so the cap hit was much less.

[Cashcleaner]

If the team makes the playoffs this year, nobody will care.

And if we don't make the playoffs, what happens then?

[Beach_Red]

^ clean house and start over.

[Shakes McQueen]

And if we don't make the playoffs, what happens then?

Depends on the circumstances. Personally, all I'm looking for, is for TFC to get markedly better every year. If we accomplish that, I'm fine. If that includes playoffs (and I anticipate we will make them this year), then great.

But we are still missing pieces - our backline is horribly undermanned with the departure of James, the possible departure of Marshall/Velez, and the probable departure of Wynne to Europe after this season, if not earlier.

Even if both Marshall and Velez stay - neither of them is very... well... good. And we all know Velez is in the doghouse for getting sent off during the home game we were pulling in people off the street to play in.

We need a higher calibre of defense, period. A DP striker won't fix that - it'll just make us the Canadian version of the LA Galaxy: a million goals for, and a million and one goals against.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

Depends on the circumstances. Personally, all I'm looking for, is for TFC to get markedly better every year. If we accomplish that, I'm fine. If that includes playoffs (and I anticipate we will make them this year), then great.

But we are still missing pieces - our backline is horribly undermanned with the departure of James, the possible departure of Marshall/Velez, and the probable departure of Wynne to Europe after this season, if not earlier.

Even if both Marshall and Velez stay - neither of them is very... well... good. And we all know Velez is in the doghouse for getting sent off during the home game we were pulling in people off the street to play in.

We need a higher calibre of defense, period. A DP striker won't fix that - it'll just make us the Canadian version of the LA Galaxy: a million goals for, and a million and one goals against.

- Scott

In regards to the backline, while it certainly needs strengthening, that need has very little to do with James's departure. It will be more than mitigated IMO by the return of Dunivant to the squad.

Velez certainly had his problems last year but a good many of those moments were in actuality caused by the lack of quality from Julius who often left his teammates exposed due to his lack of concentration and consistency.

The departure of James will help our defence IMO.

B

[jloome]

In regards to the backline, while it certainly needs strengthening, that need has very little to do with James's departure. It will be more than mitigated IMO by the return of Dunivant to the squad.

Velez certainly had his problems last year but a good many of those moments were in actuality caused by the lack of quality from Julius who often left his teammates exposed due to his lack of concentration and consistency.

The departure of James will help our defence IMO.

B

I'd say the problem stems from something else. James didn't play enough to be the principal cause, and if you look at our home record, we had one of the best defenses in the league. On the road, we were one of the worst.

The question becomes why that's the case, why a guy like Velez seemed consistently ....well, average, at least, at home while absolutely disastrous on the road.

[AL-MO]

Depends on the circumstances. Personally, all I'm looking for, is for TFC to get markedly better every year. If we accomplish that, I'm fine. If that includes playoffs (and I anticipate we will make them this year), then great.

But we are still missing pieces - our backline is horribly undermanned with the departure of James, the possible departure of Marshall/Velez, and the probable departure of Wynne to Europe after this season, if not earlier.

Even if both Marshall and Velez stay - neither of them is very... well... good. And we all know Velez is in the doghouse for getting sent off during the home game we were pulling in people off the street to play in.

We need a higher calibre of defense, period. A DP striker won't fix that - it'll just make us the Canadian version of the LA Galaxy: a million goals for, and a million and one goals against.

- Scott

And that is making the playoffs this year.

[Roogsy]

I am not expecting an MLS Cup, I am trying to be reasonable in my expectations. But I gotta say...if the team does not make the playoffs this year, it will be a profound failure.

[Blizzard]

I'd say the problem stems from something else. James didn't play enough to be the principal cause, and if you look at our home record, we had one of the best defenses in the league. On the road, we were one of the worst.

The question becomes why that's the case, why a guy like Velez seemed consistently ....well, average, at least, at home while absolutely disastrous on the road.

OK, I'm probably being a bit too hard on Julius (although I didn't say he was the principle cause) but when he did play, IMO, he was often a liability. It's true though, you can't blame him when he wasn't playing but his form at the end of the season was frightening.

It's a good question about home v away but it goes beyond the defence to the whole damned team.

[Cashcleaner]

Depends on the circumstances. Personally, all I'm looking for, is for TFC to get markedly better every year. If we accomplish that, I'm fine. If that includes playoffs (and I anticipate we will make them this year), then great.

But we are still missing pieces - our backline is horribly undermanned with the departure of James, the possible departure of Marshall/Velez, and the probable departure of Wynne to Europe after this season, if not earlier.

Even if both Marshall and Velez stay - neither of them is very... well... good. And we all know Velez is in the doghouse for getting sent off during the home game we were pulling in people off the street to play in.

We need a higher calibre of defense, period. A DP striker won't fix that - it'll just make us the Canadian version of the LA Galaxy: a million goals for, and a million and one goals against.

- Scott

It's certainly not an unreasonable request. Personally, I also believe playoff admission is the best indicator of a team's quality over a season but I wouldn't be totally upset if we missed out of them due to reasons out of our hands, but still disappointed. Unfortunately, more often than not teams struggle because of internal ineptitude or strife and to miss out again because of bad coaching, bad output, bad tactics, etc. would be heartbreaking.

As for D, I think we'll get to a point where we're pretty solid in the back and we'll probably do so through regular run-of-the-mill acquisitions. The focus for most teams has always been on aggressive Forwards and Mids so while I wouldn't say we're spoilt for choice, it probably wouldn't take too much to get the players we need.

I know it probably doesn't seem it, but I remain optimistic for '09. I think the draft and other transactions leading up to first kick will help supplement what we have now.

[Carter]

So John Carver has enough respect for Toronto FC and the fans, that he is prepared to leave over a potential signing? Instead of dealing with this issue "In House" with Mo and MLSE, he brings yet more media attention to the club by issuing ultimatums?. Carver can run his mouth as much as he wants, this is a results orientated business and thus how a manager must be judged. Let the talking be done on the pitch. Is
$1 million in allocation money and three first-round draft picks not enough of an incentive to stay and build on what he already has? I just think its a shame to read on here a few people who are taking in by gimmicks and words.

Oh wow aren't we educated on the second post on our board. Carver is pure Class, and was talking tounge in cheek.

In Carver WE Trust.

As for the allocation money and the Draft picks, he has no control on those if Trader MO decides he wants to dump the first 2 draft picks for someone now does he? And I do believe the allocation money only amounts to 750,000 after the DERO acquisition.
(http://www.fundingpost.com/glossary/acquisition.asp)

[Pachuco]

Oh wow aren't we educated on the second post on our board. Carver is pure Class, and was talking tounge in cheek.

In Carver WE Trust.

As for the allocation money and the Draft picks, he has no control on those if Trader MO decides he wants to dump the first 2 draft picks for someone now does he? And I do believe the allocation money only amounts to 750,000 after the DERO acquisition.


There's absolutely nothing classy about threatening the team in front of the media. Sorry, there isn't.

[Cashcleaner]

Originally Posted by lufc1919 http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=324881#post324881)
So John Carver has enough respect for Toronto FC and the fans, that he is prepared to leave over a potential signing? Instead of dealing with this issue "In House" with Mo and MLSE, he brings yet more media attention to the club by issuing ultimatums?. Carver can run his mouth as much as he wants, this is a results orientated business and thus how a manager must be judged. Let the talking be done on the pitch. Is $1 million in allocation money and three first-round draft picks not enough of an incentive to stay and build on what he already has? I just think its a shame to read on here a few people who are taking in by gimmicks and words.Posts like this make me laugh. Yeah, you're right. Its Carver and not MLSE who is the one that has a history of spinning the issue and using gimmickry to keep us on the hook. MLSE is just a poor mom-and-pop operation that have always been straight with us, while Carver is the mean and nasty Head Coach...:rolleyes:

[lufc1919]

Posts like this make me laugh. Yeah, you're right. Its Carver and not MLSE who is the one that has a history of spinning the issue and using gimmickry to keep us on the hook. MLSE is just a poor mom-and-pop operation that have always been straight with us, while Carver is the mean and nasty Head Coach...:rolleyes:

Im not sure where your are coming from with that post.I dont know enough about the past antics of the MLSE to comment, but it seems to me your changing the subject. There are other ways and means for Carver to voice his concerns and issues. I just think its "cheerleading" on his part to bring the fans into the issue. If people are taking in by this and it deflects attention away from the job in hand, fine.

[bhoybobby]

If the team makes the playoffs this year, nobody will care.

That's what was said last year.

We've needed a D.P here from the get go, I've never read a satisfactory response to why we shouldn't have one.

Mo's a politician, who speaks in forked tongues, Carver's a straight shooter, who can see through Mo's double talk.

[Cashcleaner]

Im not sure where your are coming from with that post. I dont know enough about the past antics of the MLSE to comment, but it seems to me your changing the subject. There are other ways and means for Carver to voice his concerns and issues. I just think its "cheerleading" on his part to bring the fans into the issue. If people are taking in by this and it deflects attention away from the job in hand, fine.

You don't know about the past antics of MLSE to comment? Where are you from, lufc?

[Carter]

There's absolutely nothing classy about threatening the team in front of the media. Sorry, there isn't.


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/AL-MO/incarverwetrust.jpg


I guess we are wrong. But then again he didn't threaten the team, He didn't say, you wankers need to start playing better or im gone. He threatened the MLSE. But i guess there is nothing classy about threatening your boss, even though its for the lack of wanting to make a winning club.

[dannyd]

Depends on the circumstances. Personally, all I'm looking for, is for TFC to get markedly better every year. If we accomplish that, I'm fine. If that includes playoffs (and I anticipate we will make them this year), then great.

But we are still missing pieces - our backline is horribly undermanned with the departure of James, the possible departure of Marshall/Velez, and the probable departure of Wynne to Europe after this season, if not earlier.

Even if both Marshall and Velez stay - neither of them is very... well... good. And we all know Velez is in the doghouse for getting sent off during the home game we were pulling in people off the street to play in.

We need a higher calibre of defense, period. A DP striker won't fix that - it'll just make us the Canadian version of the LA Galaxy: a million goals for, and a million and one goals against.

- Scott

I would prefer to see Sutton replaced before either Marshall or Velez. To me he's the biggest liability at the back.

[dannyd]

Oh wow aren't we educated on the second post on our board. Carver is pure Class, and was talking tounge in cheek.

In Carver WE Trust.

As for the allocation money and the Draft picks, he has no control on those if Trader MO decides he wants to dump the first 2 draft picks for someone now does he? And I do believe the allocation money only amounts to 750,000 after the DERO acquisition.


There is nothing classy about shooting your mouth off and not following through with threats. Anyone who has basic parenting or managerial skills knows this.

All it does is ruin your credibility. People will not believe him in the future and I'm beginning to see why the players do not take him too seriously and have been heard to ignore him on occasion.

IMO there are more effective ways to manage people...

[Beach_Red]

That's what was said last year.

We've needed a D.P here from the get go, I've never read a satisfactory response to why we shouldn't have one.

Mo's a politician, who speaks in forked tongues, Carver's a straight shooter, who can see through Mo's double talk.

Then will Carver actually quit and go home? He threatens to often enough. First he threatened to quit over officiating, then it was DP, what's next? Let's see if he's learned and moved on, maybe he can become a straight shooter, but he sure didn't start as one.

And DeRo's agent and Mo's agent and every other agent who gets the chance goes after a bigger pay day - once you get older than twelve you usually realize this is a business and the guy on the other side of the desk is negotiating just as hard. - once there's two signatures on a contract no one can get out of it, as long as there's only one....

[Bobo]

I would prefer to see Sutton replaced before either Marshall or Velez. To me he's the biggest liability at the back.

Yikes. :eek:

[Derko]

This is a useless thread.

[bhoybobby]

Then will Carver actually quit and go home? He threatens to often enough. First he threatened to quit over officiating, then it was DP, what's next? Let's see if he's learned and moved on, maybe he can become a straight shooter, but he sure didn't start as one.

And DeRo's agent and Mo's agent and every other agent who gets the chance goes after a bigger pay day - once you get older than twelve you usually realize this is a business and the guy on the other side of the desk is negotiating just as hard. - once there's two signatures on a contract no one can get out of it, as long as there's only one....

Funny you should see that, Mo once signed a contract that had at least two signatures on it & he managed quite nicely to get out of it.:D

[Bluenose13]

Funny you should see that, Mo once signed a contract that had at least two signatures on it & he managed quite nicely to get out of it.:DHahaha.......20 years later & you still can't let it go :rolleyes:

[Beach_Red]

Funny you should see that, Mo once signed a contract that had at least two signatures on it & he managed quite nicely to get out of it.:D



You're kidding, of course, but there are people who actually believe it.

I guess they believe Scottish contract law is unique in the world, the only place where legal documents aren't legal, I guess that's possible, it's a weird place ;).

(It's not like DeRo can actually just go play somewhere else - I've signed a few contracts I wanted to get out of, but Canadian law doesn't work like that)

[bhoybobby]

Hahaha.......20 years later & you still can't let it go :rolleyes:

I never had a hold of anything to let go, wasn't a problem for me then & it certainly isn't now. Just pointing out the facts & how things go 'round in circles.

[Bluenose13]

I never had a hold of anything to let go, wasn't a problem for me then & it certainly isn't now. Just pointing out the facts & how things go 'round in circles.
Hahahahaha.........Yeah ok :rolleyes: