Should MLS deploy Video Assistance?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I think something like this could help MLS...

MOD's feel free to move, but i think the discussion could help move MLS in the right direction. Please weigh in on the discussion and lets see what peoples thoughts are on Video Assistance in the MLS??


And of Wenger’s support for video assistance, Platini raged: "It would make me happy that Arsene Wenger never sees it."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/arsenal/3066608/Arsene-Wenger-stunned-by-aggressive-outburst-from-Uefa-president-Michel-Platini---Football.html

Scottish FA calls for video assistance for referees

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/aug/25/scottishpremierleague.celtic

"It is true I am in favour of video assistance to referees, just as all coaches are, and I think UEFA have an important role to play in that process. I defend sporting justice and UEFA should be responsible for that," he added.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=1&t=73397

[redcard]

i think the video assistance may take away from the game...bad calls happen just as bad plays happen, its part of the game.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

i think the video assistance may take away from the game...bad calls happen just as bad plays happen, its part of the game.

I don't know, i'm not so sure about that...I think technology can be used to improve the quality...no?

[H Bomb]

It continues to blow my mind that people consider shitty refs "part of the game" I only want football in my football and refs don't play football. Anything that makes the calls closer to 100% correct including videos/robots/whatever is good in my books. There's nothing nostalgic or pleasant about a ref botching a penalty call or screwing up a goal line decision.

[DOMIN8R]

Rather than spend money on replay technology and additional staff to run/support the service. More money should be spent on training and suitable salaries to officials so that they can develop and be held professionally accountable. Only then should we expect to see consistently professional officiating. By the way - this would likely to take 3-5 years to mature properly.

Having said this - there will always be human error in sport officiating.

[Mrs. Workie]

No absolutely not. I'm not a fan of this in any sport. There are officials for a reason, let them call the game. Wrong calls are going to happen, but they're also going to happen in your favour from time to time as well.

Let the officials call the game.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think the video assistance may take away from the game...bad calls happen just as bad plays happen, its part of the game.

yep, sometimes those badcalls are in your favor.
They need to get better refs is what they need to do

[stugautz]

Let the officials call the game as they see fit. Video replay only for questionable offsides that result in a goal.

Use video assistance after the game to hand out cards for diving and other fouls.

[DOMIN8R]

Let the officials call the game as they see fit. Video replay only for questionable offsides that result in a goal.

Use video assistance after the game to hand out cards for diving and other fouls.

Now that's an interesing idea. I wonder if that would ever be considered.

[flatpicker]

Let the officials call the game as they see fit. Video replay only for questionable offsides that result in a goal.

Use video assistance after the game to hand out cards for diving and other fouls.


good points...
The first one regarding offside goals may be a good plan. Perhaps also with questionable fouls resulting in a penalty.

I definitely agree with your second point. I been wanting this for a long time!
I think if people new that diving would get reviewed after the match by league officials then players would be less inclined to show off their acting skills. A dive that is discovered after a the game should be given a yellow card. Not harsh I know, but for people that dive a lot, those yellows would add up quickly.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

No absolutely not. I'm not a fan of this in any sport. There are officials for a reason, let them call the game. Wrong calls are going to happen, but they're also going to happen in your favour from time to time as well.

Let the officials call the game.

Well when you have Technology that can be combined with the Human Element that can get you even closer to 100% perfect then why not?

Look at the NBA for instance - Ref's are gambling on the games that they control, Refs constantly affect the outcomes of NBA games. And NBA refs are paid really well!

NHL has 3 refs and they still go up to the video replay for goal decisions.

NFL has video replay that they use intelligently also...

I think Video Assistance is just that!! ASSISTANCE. Its a helping hand that is used in conjunction with Human Refs. All coaches pretty much in all the TOP leagues are for it! I bet even most Refs are for the idea of having a helping hand too!!

[flatpicker]

- as long as they add the time spent on video review to the end of the half.

[Carts]

NO! I don't want video replay in football (aka soccer)...

There is a place for it in some sports - in some situations (although I'm not a fan of it at anytime)...

In football/soccer - NEVER.

In NHL hockey I can see it's need on goals alone - but could you imagine allowing it for offsides, penalties, etc etc etc - the game would SUCK!

NO VIDEO REPLAY PLEASE!

Carts...

[flatpicker]

^ I agree somewhat that video replay during a game would kill the momentum and enjoyment of the sport.

But I still think video review after a match that can result in additional cards being handed out is a great thing.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Video replay is coming eventually whether I want it or not (I don't). The longer we avoid it the longer the officials keep the full responsibility of play calls. IMO I don't wish to give them any crutch on which they can skirt improvement.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

NO! I don't want video replay in football (aka soccer)...

There is a place for it in some sports - in some situations (although I'm not a fan of it at anytime)...

In football/soccer - NEVER.

In NHL hockey I can see it's need on goals alone - but could you imagine allowing it for offsides, penalties, etc etc etc - the game would SUCK!

NO VIDEO REPLAY PLEASE!

Carts...

Yeah, but what if Video Assistance was only provided for Offside calls or Non Calls that result in a goal, or Penalty Shots being awarded and it resulting in a goal...i think both of those instances can be tackled without interfering with the game...Plus Technology can help, you don't have to be afraid of it....:eek:

[Fort York Redcoat]

You're one step away from commercial breaks. And this is the league that would do it.

[AL-MO]

Is this even an option?

[Azerban]

No, absolutely not. The smallest thought about the situation will prove me right.

Example A) We're up 2-1, important game, we're being attacked at our own end, other team throws up all their players looking for the equalizer. We're absorbing all sorts of pressure when an opposing striker rips a really good shot. Brennan makes a goal line clearance that soars right over everyone and falls right to Barrett. All of a sudden we have Barrett and Ruiz on a 2 on 1 heading the other way.

But wait! Did it cross the line? Play gets whistled dead so they can look at it on video replay, and we lose our counter attack.

Example B) Ok, maybe in your world they don't stop play and just look at it on the sidelines. We run it up and score. Oops, turns out we were actually scored on in the beginning, it did cross the line. Now it's 2-2 and you pull the last 30 seconds of play, including our goal, back? Yeah, going from 3-1 to 2-2 in an instant won't cause a riot.


Sorry, it won't work. Post-game, looking for dives, fine, but midgame is simply unworkable. It will invariably mess with one of the best and defining traits of soccer; the play never stops.

[H Bomb]

No, absolutely not. The smallest thought about the situation will prove me right.

Example A) We're up 2-1, important game, we're being attacked at our own end, other team throws up all their players looking for the equalizer. We're absorbing all sorts of pressure when an opposing striker rips a really good shot. Brennan makes a goal line clearance that soars right over everyone and falls right to Barrett. All of a sudden we have Barrett and Ruiz on a 2 on 1 heading the other way.

But wait! Did it cross the line? Play gets whistled dead so they can look at it on video replay, and we lose our counter attack.

Example B) Ok, maybe in your world they don't stop play and just look at it on the sidelines. We run it up and score. Oops, turns out we were actually scored on in the beginning, it did cross the line. Now it's 2-2 and you pull the last 30 seconds of play, including our goal, back? Yeah, going from 3-1 to 2-2 in an instant won't cause a riot.


Sorry, it won't work. Post-game, looking for dives, fine, but midgame is simply unworkable. It will invariably mess with one of the best and defining traits of soccer; the play never stops.

Yeah but "A)" wouldn't happen ever as no league uses a blow the whistle and check the replay approach and it's never been brought up; and then simply switch your allegiance to the team that scored that first legal goal with "B)" and look at it from that point of view. Seriously people, is getting it right not in any of your thoughts about this? Just get it right, whatever it takes. The game is too fast for humans to be 100% responsible these days...There are terrible calls in top leagues and internationals all the time so better training wont cut it. GET IT RIGHT, there's no charm in fucking up.

[Mrs. Workie]

Well when you have Technology that can be combined with the Human Element that can get you even closer to 100% perfect then why not?



Because life isn't perfect- shit happens. The whole point of an official is for him to make the decisions. Leave it at that.

[Damien]

But wait! Did it cross the line? Play gets whistled dead so they can look at it on video replay, and we lose our counter attack.

oooh good angle... woulda never thought of that. cheers bro.

league refs are dumb and may blow the whiste prematurely

[Blizzard]

oooh good angle... woulda never thought of that. cheers bro.

league refs are dumb and may blow the whiste prematurely

This scenario does happen in the NHL and they always wait until a break in play. If NHL referees can handle it, soccer referees should be able to handle it too.

The absolutely most important thing is that the correct call is made. There is no honour in winning on a botched refereeing decision as far as I'm concerned.

[flatpicker]

Example B) Ok, maybe in your world they don't stop play and just look at it on the sidelines. We run it up and score. Oops, turns out we were actually scored on in the beginning, it did cross the line. Now it's 2-2 and you pull the last 30 seconds of play, including our goal, back? Yeah, going from 3-1 to 2-2 in an instant won't cause a riot.


doesn't that happen in hockey?
they don't stop a play for the sake of instant replay, they just keep playing until there is a reason to blow the whistle.
At that point they go upstairs to review it.

I think it has happened where the other team scores and then the goal is called off after a review shows the first team scored moments earlier.

- I'm not saying it's good or bad... I'm just saying...

[flatpicker]

^^ you beat me to it!

[Azerban]

But a break in play might not happen for minutes. And goals don't have the same importance in hockey that they do in soccer. They're not the same sport, despite the similarities, you can't look at it like that.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

No to this video shit , it does NOT belong in the game EVER!!!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Because life isn't perfect- shit happens. The whole point of an official is for him to make the decisions. Leave it at that.

Well, shit then!! I might as well get off this computer and leave my Freakin' Blackberry at home too!! Damn Technology making things better!!! Why bother with Calculators also, i mean thats why stores have people working the cash registers no!? sometimes you'll get the correct change sometimes you'll get shortchanged!! OH well such is life right??? WRONG. Technology helps you immensely these days! why can't it HELP with getting the game called with the fewest amount of flaws???

[ricciboy]

these refs are shit

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Yeah but "A)" wouldn't happen ever as no league uses a blow the whistle and check the replay approach and it's never been brought up; and then simply switch your allegiance to the team that scored that first legal goal with "B)" and look at it from that point of view. Seriously people, is getting it right not in any of your thoughts about this? Just get it right, whatever it takes. The game is too fast for humans to be 100% responsible these days...There are terrible calls in top leagues and internationals all the time so better training wont cut it. GET IT RIGHT, there's no charm in fucking up.

EXACTLY!! Thank you for bringing forth some intellect..:)

[Blizzard]

But a break in play might not happen for minutes. And goals don't have the same importance in hockey that they do in soccer. They're not the same sport, despite the similarities, you can't look at it like that.

That's debatable. Winning 3-2 on a disputed goal or 1 nil on a disputed goal is still a win and still a loss.

I know what you're saying but it only takes a margin of 1 to win and the whole line of reasoning that things even out in the end (not that you are using it here but others have) is total crap.

The most important thing is that the correct call is made. Fans may not like the pause in play but if you are awarded a goal because a referee corrected a call, I think you'd be pretty happy about it!

[C.Ronaldo]

Say no to technology.

Stop using email and send letter while your at it.

Hell, screw this computer, I'm busting out the typwriter.


Technology. can help us. You dont have to use video, you can use GPS tracking to pinpoint the position of the ball in comparison to the goal line.......same thing with offside.

And Yes, yellow cards to divers after the game.
I honestly dont know why this isnt implemented already, they review red cards ala Velez.

[Blizzard]

Because life isn't perfect- shit happens. The whole point of an official is for him to make the decisions. Leave it at that.

So you are content to live with mediocrity and game-changing errors, perhaps season-changing errors?

I'm not.

B

[Blizzard]

Say no to technology.

Stop using email and send letter while your at it.

Hell, screw this computer, I'm busting out the typwriter.


Technology. can help us. You dont have to use video, you can use GPS tracking to pinpoint the position of the ball in comparison to the goal line.......same thing with offside.

And Yes, yellow cards to divers after the game.
I honestly dont know why this isnt implemented already, they review red cards ala Velez.

Let's remove clocks from the stadium while we're at it ... and we must get rid of those floodlights for night games. Electricity is the tool of the devil!

B

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Say no to technology.

Stop using email and send letter while your at it.

Hell, screw this computer, I'm busting out the typwriter.


Technology. can help us. You dont have to use video, you can use GPS tracking to pinpoint the position of the ball in comparison to the goal line.......same thing with offside.

And Yes, yellow cards to divers after the game.
I honestly dont know why this isnt implemented already, they review red cards ala Velez.

This is a great idea! They should have a company doing some R&D on this right away! You could place chips in the ball and the jerseys of players and along the touchlines and goallines and you could have INSTANT flags and goal lights, very similar to tennis!!

[Azerban]

Example C) Same as before, goalline clearance, we get a counterattack. Only this time, our guy gets yanked down in the box on the counter, which would be a red card and penalty. This is their chance to review the tape, and it looks like they did score.

1) What's the score?
2) How many players do they have on the field?
3) Do we get the PK?

[Azerban]

hey guys lets technology everything up to the gills and take out the players

robots with rocket shoes we could track down to the nanometer and would give us a more perfect game, since that's our number one objective here

[TFCREDNWHITE]

hey guys lets technology everything up to the gills and take out the players

robots with rocket shoes we could track down to the nanometer and would give us a more perfect game, since that's our number one objective here

Now your just being ridiculous..:cool:

[Azerban]

me? never. this is serious business.

but seriously a video replay symapthizer answer my example C, i am curious

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Example C) Same as before, goalline clearance, we get a counterattack. Only this time, our guy gets yanked down in the box on the counter, which would be a red card and penalty. This is their chance to review the tape, and it looks like they did score.

1) What's the score?
2) How many players do they have on the field?
3) Do we get the PK?

Firstly, i don't really understand your example...

If its a Goal-line clearance, then i want to know with 100% certainty if the ball went in or not..

Secondly, if our guy gets yanked in the box and we get a penalty shot hen fine, but i still want to know if we cleared the ball or if it went in!! Think about it if you were the "other" team for one second, wouldn't you want a goal if you deserved one!?

[Carts]

My opinion in sports is this...

There are 3 teams on the field...
+ Home Team
+ Visiting Team
+ Officiating Team

I beleive in the best teams representing themselves - that means in MLS the four officials doing their best (however bad that might be)... Just as the home team or visiting might be shit one day - the officials might be shit the next... Its sports, its human, its one of the things that make it what it is...

Call me a purist if you want - but I don't think video replay can work in football...

What would you do on an offside that's whistled - but isn't offside...??? Does the player stop, claim to be onside, ask for video replay, then when found out to be onside they re-do the play the same...??? A Free-kick isn't a good enough option for what would have been a breakaway... It doesn't work...

Carts...

[Azerban]

But if it was a goal, we never should have had that counter, thus the red card tackle shouldn't have happened and the PK shouldn't be given.

[Fort York Redcoat]

And give the coaches flags to throw on the field to demand a review.

[Azerban]

Another good scenario by McCartney. And teams will turn gaming the video replay into a tactic, to get players a seconds rest or to break up momentum.

[Carts]

Another good scenario by McCartney. And teams will turn gaming the video replay into a tactic, to get players a seconds rest or to break up momentum.

I agree they defintely will...

Every close offside call you would call for video review - if you didn't, you wouldn't be doing your job as coach/manager...

The game would GRIND TO BORING STOP...

Football is the most popular sport in the world - and arguably, the one that has had the least done to it in regards to rule changes, gimmicks, TV concessions etc etc... Its a great game, its a pure game - KEEP IT THAT WAY!

Carts...

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Another good scenario by McCartney. And teams will turn gaming the video replay into a tactic, to get players a seconds rest or to break up momentum.


Carts brings up a good point, BUT...

No one is saying that play can be stopped for EVERY infraction or every call!! I think what we are saying is that there is a way to incorporate BOTH video assistance and refs!! YOU can have both COEXIST!! Look at the NBA, NFL and NHL!!!

Where there is a will their is a way!

[Blazer]

I think there needs to be a governing body (I mean, I know there is but they do a piss poor job) who reviews these officials on a very regular basis. I am somewhat biased I acknowledge, but it just seems as though our REDS get ramrodded with all of the most inopportune calls. It’s deplorable and should be embarrassing to the league.

Having video available for anything hapening in the game that is disputable is unnecessary and only promotes a lazy official with it in mind that video replay will get it right if he should fuck it up.

[Azerban]

Another reason it's a terrible idea is because it'd fuck with the absolute number one reason soccer is the worlds most popular sport; all you need to play a game are 22 players, a ball, 2 goals and a couple guys with a whistle. From Wembley stadium to a dirt field in the Congo, the rules and requirements are exactly the same. Are we going to have it in Canada, and then deal with its absence when we visit St Vincent and the Grenadines? Are they not going to be allowed to participate unless they have it? Half the countries who participate in World Cup qualifying have trouble purchasing kits for all their players, much less requiring them to have a multiple viewpoint instant replay setup.

Which brings me to perhaps my final point; what happens when the replay video is inconclusive?

Why, we'll just listen to the ref! You know, the guy whose authority to tried to bypass with all this bullshit in the first place!

Progress!

[Blazer]

If police officers were allowed to walk around with K9s all day long and actually use them, they wouldn’t need guns or an ability to think and dissolve problems with common sense and intellectual reasoning. They’d just rely on the dogs because it’s acceptable. Bringing in cameras and video replay only coddles referees as much to say “we expect you to make mistakes and we are employing cameras to fix your deficiencies”. Here’s an idea, get an impartial ref with half a fucking brain instead.

[Blazer]

Soccer is the worlds most popular sport because it's cheaply played all over the world. Not because it remains without video replay.

[Blizzard]

My opinion in sports is this...

There are 3 teams on the field...
+ Home Team
+ Visiting Team
+ Officiating Team

I beleive in the best teams representing themselves - that means in MLS the four officials doing their best (however bad that might be)... Just as the home team or visiting might be shit one day - the officials might be shit the next... Its sports, its human, its one of the things that make it what it is...

Call me a purist if you want - but I don't think video replay can work in football...

What would you do on an offside that's whistled - but isn't offside...??? Does the player stop, claim to be onside, ask for video replay, then when found out to be onside they re-do the play the same...??? A Free-kick isn't a good enough option for what would have been a breakaway... It doesn't work...

Carts...

They would have to limit what is and isn't subject to review. The CFL doesn't allow for review of penalties for example. The NHL limits its reviews to the puck in the net or high sticks on a goal scoring play (amongst other things I can't recall).

Obviously, soccer would have to do something similar. Offsides would be very tricky because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. That's unfortunate as those are the calls most often screwed up as we all know.

Of course, things can evolve.

For now, limit it to goal scoring plays which could include whether it was offside. Unfortunately, any offside review is one way as discussed above.

I think I'd include Penalty calls too. Nothing worse than being called for a handball when it hit your chest.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Well, shit then!! I might as well get off this computer and leave my Freakin' Blackberry at home too!! Damn Technology making things better!!! Why bother with Calculators also, i mean thats why stores have people working the cash registers no!? sometimes you'll get the correct change sometimes you'll get shortchanged!! OH well such is life right??? WRONG. Technology helps you immensely these days! why can't it HELP with getting the game called with the fewest amount of flaws???

beacuse it is just wrong to have video replays in football...leave technology where it belongs away from the soccer pitch..

the nhl went to video replays and it slows the game down and half the time they still get it wrong...

[redcard]

its one thing to have shitty refs like we do in the mls, i dont think europe especially epl has shittly refs...if the refs screws up large then they should be held accountable after the match...players are held accountable by their coaches after they screw up, but after the match....

provide the refs with more training and guidance from the top officials and things will improve, ignore the the bad calls and poor referring and it will only get worse.

the only technology that would be good for the game is a equiping the ball with a sensor that will let the official know that it did in cross the goal line...i believe adidas was working on this.

[H Bomb]

Another reason it's a terrible idea is because it'd fuck with the absolute number one reason soccer is the worlds most popular sport; all you need to play a game are 22 players, a ball, 2 goals and a couple guys with a whistle...

Progress!

You made the last bit up. Most places in the world would only say all you need to play soccer is A ball and "some' people, be it 22 or 8 or 12 etc. How often do you think kids in the streets of Brazil call off their pick up matches due to lack of refs?

I like this last point about progress though, I'm all for it!!! :D

[Azerban]

You made the last bit up. Most places in the world would only say all you need to play soccer is A ball and "some' people, be it 22 or 8 or 12 etc. How often do you think kids in the streets of Brazil call off their pick up matches due to lack of refs?

I like this last point about progress though, I'm all for it!!! :D

I wasn't talking about pick up games, no one in this thread is talking about pickup games, and you know that.

[nascarguy]

it's going to slow the game down too much

[nascarguy]

the only technology that would be good for the game is a equiping the ball with a sensor that will let the official know that it did in cross the goal line...i believe adidas was working on this.

they have been using that for about 3 or more year for big cup games

[H Bomb]

I wasn't talking about pick up games, no one in this thread is talking about pickup games, and you know that.

Well my dear friend the things you're talking about aren't realistic either, so I wasn't too sure ;)

People seem to assume that monkeys would be in charge of this system if it were to be implemented. which doesn't make any sense. With an on site review committee finding out whether a goal crossed the line would take less than 20 seconds. If the other team scores in that 20 seconds my vote goes for tough shit, cause the first goal was a goal despite the refs being incompetent. Again my attitude is get it right, whatever it takes. When people say it'll take too long, watch any sport and see how long a replay takes to be shown..no time at all. And to get the correct call over a poor one is worth while 10/10. there are certain things that video replay may never be able to help with but i think every technological advancement possible should be used to make the only noticeable thing in a game the game itself.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Well my dear friend the things you're talking about aren't realistic either, so I wasn't too sure ;)

People seem to assume that monkeys would be in charge of this system if it were to be implemented. which doesn't make any sense. With an on site review committee finding out whether a goal crossed the line would take less than 20 seconds. If the other team scores in that 20 seconds my vote goes for tough shit, cause the first goal was a goal despite the refs being incompetent. Again my attitude is get it right, whatever it takes. When people say it'll take too long, watch any sport and see how long a replay takes to be shown..no time at all. And to get the correct call over a poor one is worth while 10/10. there are certain things that video replay may never be able to help with but i think every technological advancement possible should be used to make the only noticeable thing in a game the game itself.


Bravo!! **Standing and Clapping** Bravo!!

Exactly! i don't see why you can't have a helping hand...The "goal"(no pun intended) is to get it right!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Points on both sides of this have merit. Replays shown and replays reviewed are different things. Amd monkeys won't be on the equipment but the same caliber of official we experience will be. I want to get it right but this argument has more legs in bigger leagues where the officiating is better and the practice has no precedent for abuse. I'm not enjoying the officiating. I would enjoy even less giving them ability to even possibly change the flow of this beautiful game. but as I said before, it's coming regardless. So you gents enjoy it and keep reading the grumbling that will ensue.

[Up The TFC]

Bravo!! **Standing and Clapping** Bravo!!

Exactly! i don't see why you can't have a helping hand...The "goal"(no pun intended) is to get it right!!

If the goal is to 'get it right', why don't we have a reverse clock that lets off a loud buzzer when the exact time is up?

This whole question of replays has only come up as a result of television. We see the slo-mo replay of a bad call and think, 'fuck, we got jobbed'. So when we start changing the rules because of how the game's seen on TV, I think it's a slippery slope.

[H Bomb]

If the goal is to 'get it right', why don't we have a reverse clock that lets off a loud buzzer when the exact time is up?

This whole question of replays has only come up as a result of television. We see the slo-mo replay of a bad call and think, 'fuck, we got jobbed'. So when we start changing the rules because of how the game's seen on TV, I think it's a slippery slope.

Because there is no exact time in football. An injury time out is roughly x seconds long and that x is added to the end of the half.

And yes TV did bring up the idea...and it's been around for a long time while refs sit on their thumbs and continue to do poor jobs. I'm just amazed that we haven't fixed an obvious problem while other sports have with little to no ill effects. Look at tennis and it's eagle eye technology. How is it bad? Occasionally people will use it to slow momentum...those people are known as cheaters and will cheat by using whatever means they can. So you can't blame a good system on their bad use of it. Get rid of cheaters AND use video technology...or would that be too much for the purists too? ;)

[SilverSamurai]

So you are content to live with mediocrity and game-changing errors, perhaps season-changing errors?

I'm not.

B
I have to agree here. It's done terribly.


But if it was a goal, we never should have had that counter, thus the red card tackle shouldn't have happened and the PK shouldn't be given.
This is why and when the ref SHOULD know what happened and be paying attention. I would assume he would talk to the linesmen and dude upstairs via radio who then tell him.
The ref would make the final call.


They would have to limit what is and isn't subject to review. The CFL doesn't allow for review of penalties for example. The NHL limits its reviews to the puck in the net or high sticks on a goal scoring play (amongst other things I can't recall).

Obviously, soccer would have to do something similar. Offsides would be very tricky because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. That's unfortunate as those are the calls most often screwed up as we all know.

Of course, things can evolve.

For now, limit it to goal scoring plays which could include whether it was offside. Unfortunately, any offside review is one way as discussed above.

I think I'd include Penalty calls too. Nothing worse than being called for a handball when it hit your chest.
This is where I agree 100%. How many times do we see the players trying to talk to the ref about a call. How is that not time wasting? So instead of the players talking/arguing w/ the ref, in the same amount of time the ref could be talking to the video dude up stairs.


Points on both sides of this have merit. Replays shown and replays reviewed are different things. Amd monkeys won't be on the equipment but the same caliber of official we experience will be. I want to get it right but this argument has more legs in bigger leagues where the officiating is better and the practice has no precedent for abuse. I'm not enjoying the officiating. I would enjoy even less giving them ability to even possibly change the flow of this beautiful game. but as I said before, it's coming regardless. So you gents enjoy it and keep reading the grumbling that will ensue.
I'd say have a 5th official ONLY watching disputable calls to inform the ref. Then leave it up to the ref w/ the final decision.

I think replays are badly needed. The refs suck and have not been getting any better. It doesn't have to disrupt the flow if it's used the same as in hockey, ie. only when the play stops. You could also give the 5th official a time limit (30secs) to get his point across.
If it's inconclusive, 5th official tells the main ref, ref makes final call.
Ref has final word all the time though.

Who knows, maybe footage could be used later on to card divers...

[Azerban]

instant replay is just the best thing ever and it is completely infallible and would be completely worth ruining the flow of the game and forcing small countries to invest in the system instead of buying their players kits to wear it certainly won't create more problems than it solves

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/TheSteelersBlog/BrettHullNoGoal.jpg


sorry i'm done making reasonable counterpoints that will just get ignored when it's clearly more efficient to just post post post and claim that my position is the right one

sports are for humans

[Azerban]

hey do you know what would improve the officiating

holding the officials accountable for their mistakes

why doesn't anyone propose that, is it because it doesn't involve gps tracking systems and matrix style bullet time replays and is just a simple cost effective and human way of improving our league

[Super]

Wow, it's split 50/50. Honestly, how can we not support this? There is nothing worse than losing a game because of a wrong decision by the ref, and we see this time and time again in the MLS. We need to protect the integrity of the game, and the only way to step forward at this point is to make sure that boneheaded calls don't ruin games completely.

[Blizzard]

Wow, it's split 50/50. Honestly, how can we not support this? There is nothing worse than losing a game because of a wrong decision by the ref, and we see this time and time again in the MLS. We need to protect the integrity of the game, and the only way to step forward at this point is to make sure that boneheaded calls don't ruin games completely.

Agreed!

B

[flatpicker]

I just wanted to say that I voted "yes" in this poll... yet I am not sold on the idea of of instant replays during games.

The poll question asked about "Video Assistance"
And since I think questionable fouls called/missed by the refs should be looked at after the fact... I say bring it on.

[London]

i would be fine with it if it were only for offsides and goal decisions, but that could be solved with gps in the boots and the ball.

[TFC OZZ]

I'm all for video replay in very important, big decision situations. As in if teams were allowed to challenge 2 calls per game or something. The ref at centre should have a trot out to half field, ONCE PLAY HAS STOPPED, and then see it, and he make the ultimate decision.

To not want video replay is just stupid, it won't detract from the game if you extremely limit the amount of challenges, and bad reffing is not part of the game.

I WANT VIDEO REPLAY.

[TFC OZZ]

hey do you know what would improve the officiating

holding the officials accountable for their mistakes

why doesn't anyone propose that, is it because it doesn't involve gps tracking systems and matrix style bullet time replays and is just a simple cost effective and human way of improving our league

because if the ball crosses the line, and the officials can't exactly tell, than holding them accountable does nothing.

[Fort York Redcoat]

i can't wait for the "Has video replay improved the game?" poll.

[H Bomb]

I can't wait to see Azerban again and give him a hug and tell him I'm sorry!! :D:drinking: And also to get him to explain his Bullet time concept, i think it has legs!!!

[Azerban]

I can't wait to see Azerban again and give him a hug and tell him I'm sorry!! :D:drinking: And also to get him to explain his Bullet time concept, i think it has legs!!!

fuck that i still want robot soccer with rocket shoes

[H Bomb]

I do too man, I do too. make the balls solid metal so if the ball misses the net and goes into the crowd a bunch of people die

[J .]

mistakes get made, by players, coaches... and refs.... no thanks to replay.

[Smuttynose]

Well my dear friend the things you're talking about aren't realistic either, so I wasn't too sure ;)

People seem to assume that monkeys would be in charge of this system if it were to be implemented. which doesn't make any sense. With an on site review committee finding out whether a goal crossed the line would take less than 20 seconds. If the other team scores in that 20 seconds my vote goes for tough shit, cause the first goal was a goal despite the refs being incompetent. Again my attitude is get it right, whatever it takes. When people say it'll take too long, watch any sport and see how long a replay takes to be shown..no time at all. And to get the correct call over a poor one is worth while 10/10. there are certain things that video replay may never be able to help with but i think every technological advancement possible should be used to make the only noticeable thing in a game the game itself.

you don't realize how long it takes cause they cut to commerical ;) :D

[flatpicker]

It's time for video review (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2008/10/04/6974741-sun.html)

Toronto SUN (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2008/10/04/6974741-sun.html)


It will take more than a goal that wasn't a goal to convince the old boys who run soccer that it isn't heresy to move into the modern era.

What will it take before soccer joins the other major sports in the world and move to instant replay?

More than likely, something catastrophic will get their attention. It will have to happen on a major stage. It will be a World Cup game, when the difference between winning and losing means millions of dollars. A penalty will be awarded which is no penalty, a goal is scored and a nation is eliminated.

Let's say a Champions League final, or European Championship final, where one team doesn't score a goal and it's awarded anyway. It proves to be the winner and a riot starts with people getting hurt and killed.

Several weeks ago, Reading played Watford with the game ending 2-2.

Linesman Nigel Bannister signalled a goal for Reading. He believed the ball had crossed the goal line.
It didn't. It had curled around the outside of the post.

Referee Stuart Atwell awarded the goal that gave Reading a 1-0 lead in the League Championship game.
Clearly it was the wrong call, a call that would have taken 30 seconds to overturn with the benefit of replay.
The event was so egregious that there were demands for the game to be replayed.

"The laws of the game give no discretion in these matters," league chief operating officer Andy Williamson said at the time.
Then the laws are an ass and should be changed.

Last weekend, Manchester United was awarded a penalty against Bolton, a penalty most people in the park recognized as a non-penalty. United scored.

After viewing the penalty on video after the game, Rob Sykes, the referee, wrote to referee chief Keith Hackett and apologized. That, too, could have been avoided, quickly, if replay were in operation.

UEFA president Michel Platini and Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger had a ridiculous dispute over video replay and what Platini reportedly described as Wenger being a man "of business," whereas Platini is a man "of football," whatever that is supposed to mean. Wenger liked the idea of replay while Platini didn't.

Why would soccer people such as Platini not wish to see the game decided on the merits of what happens, not what people think happens?

Soccer leagues currently use video evidence to discipline players and referees. Why not do it while the game is in progress so that the game isn't compromised?

It's not just for goals and non-goals. That happens rarely. But for a game whose reputation is tarnished by the simulation and diving of so many players, instant replay for penalty calls make sense. Why reward cheaters? Soccer should do everything in its power to put a stop to cheating.

Replay should not be brought in for disputed offside calls. The best way to cut down on the mistakes made by linesmen is to change the rule to make it less restrictive. But that's another discussion.

So there should be no review for offsides. The only time replay should be used, at least for the moment, is goals and penalties, and only penalties that are given.

There is a concern about how long it will take for a referee to look at a replay.

How many incidents of goals or non-goals and penalties would there be in one game ... two, three, maybe four if it's a controversial game.

It should take no more than three or four minutes per review. A referee spends that much time arguing with the players on the field.

It would not be a big investment to protect the integrity of the game.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Wow, it's split 50/50. Honestly, how can we not support this? There is nothing worse than losing a game because of a wrong decision by the ref, and we see this time and time again in the MLS. We need to protect the integrity of the game, and the only way to step forward at this point is to make sure that boneheaded calls don't ruin games completely.


because it is wrong...video replays are not welcome at football matches, you want video replays go watch a sport at the dome or acc...never for MLS>>

[james]

im not in favour of play being stopped or anything for video replays, but..........one thing that really pissed me off and gives soccer a bad name is this diving garbage you see alot. Some countries more then others.


I understand it can be hard for refs to tell if a player dived or not, but i wish FIFA would get strict on diving. Maybe have officials or whoever be in charge could have up to 3 days after a match is played to review the game replays and if there is any obvious diving going on give that player a fine. And if commited a again then give him a even BIG fine. And dare that player try that a 3rd time suspend him or somethin. It would help stop these shitty dives and would lead to less bad calls by refs without having to interrupt the game while its actually being played.


THats the only thing i would really like to see be done with video replays!

[Steve]

I'm of two minds on this one. I think video replay is necessary and needed, but I do not want to kill the flow of the game to get it. Here is what I would like to see:

1) Goals should be called by tracking chips in the balls (theoretically infallible). If you have a system that tracks the exact location of the ball, you will know when it went in the net.

2) Offsides should also use computer assistance. The offside rule in soccer is complex, and easy to get wrong. The linesmen have a lot to do, and when they do make a mistake, it could be game changing (unacceptable). Have at least a computer system to track players and the ball, to help the linesmen. Give them a visual indicator of when a player was offside, then let them consider the passive offside rule/etc and have the final say. Yes, there will still be mistakes, but they should be reduced.

3) Allow video replay for foul/penalty calls during the run of play. This would not break up the flow of the game, because it would be usable only after play was stopped anyway. Give each team captain the ability to challenge a call, and give him only 2-3 mistaken calls (meaning if they were correct and the ref was wrong, they didn't use a challenge). This would cut down on diving affecting games, and would ensure pretty much every penalty was given appropriately (as they would always use a challenge on a penalty, or make all penalties video replay default). It would only take 20-30 seconds, and would reduce time wasted in arguing on the pitch.

4) Allow video replay after the game. Though this would not affect the results of the game, it could be used to award yellows/reds for diving, or for fouls not seen by the ref during the run of play.

I think these changes are necessary, not because the refs are bad, but because it is impossible to see everything on the field. It's a big pitch, and one person (or even 4), at the same level as the players, is always going to miss some things. This isn't a "take responsibilty from the refs" move, but a "help the refs to call a more fair game" move. Every ref and player should support this, as it helps the refs call a better game, and helps the players play a more fair game. Diving is a problem because it works. Because no matter how good you are as a ref, you can't see everything, and you have to rely on the effect sometimes to determine the cause. This would help.

[james]

I'm of two minds on this one. I think video replay is necessary and needed, but I do not want to kill the flow of the game to get it. Here is what I would like to see:

1) Goals should be called by tracking chips in the balls (theoretically infallible). If you have a system that tracks the exact location of the ball, you will know when it went in the net.

2) Offsides should also use computer assistance. The offside rule in soccer is complex, and easy to get wrong. The linesmen have a lot to do, and when they do make a mistake, it could be game changing (unacceptable). Have at least a computer system to track players and the ball, to help the linesmen. Give them a visual indicator of when a player was offside, then let them consider the passive offside rule/etc and have the final say. Yes, there will still be mistakes, but they should be reduced.

3) Allow video replay for foul/penalty calls during the run of play. This would not break up the flow of the game, because it would be usable only after play was stopped anyway. Give each team captain the ability to challenge a call, and give him only 2-3 mistaken calls (meaning if they were correct and the ref was wrong, they didn't use a challenge). This would cut down on diving affecting games, and would ensure pretty much every penalty was given appropriately (as they would always use a challenge on a penalty, or make all penalties video replay default). It would only take 20-30 seconds, and would reduce time wasted in arguing on the pitch.

4) Allow video replay after the game. Though this would not affect the results of the game, it could be used to award yellows/reds for diving, or for fouls not seen by the ref during the run of play.

I think these changes are necessary, not because the refs are bad, but because it is impossible to see everything on the field. It's a big pitch, and one person (or even 4), at the same level as the players, is always going to miss some things. This isn't a "take responsibilty from the refs" move, but a "help the refs to call a more fair game" move. Every ref and player should support this, as it helps the refs call a better game, and helps the players play a more fair game. Diving is a problem because it works. Because no matter how good you are as a ref, you can't see everything, and you have to rely on the effect sometimes to determine the cause. This would help.

i would agree with pretty much everything there except # 3. A player challenging the ref is just like NFL and it completely stops the flow of play. I want no video goal replays durring a soccer game.

Micro chips and shit im fine with tho. And deffinitly have no problem if replays were used after a game to penalize a player for diving by giving him yellow/red cards or by giving them fines and making them cough up $$ so they will think twice before diving in future games.

[jayeden]

the video replay should be used as follows:

the referees call will always stand suring the game, and the play is never stopped and the game is played like it is today.

- review the controvercial calls after the game.
- 3 wrong result deciding calls by any ref/or linesmen and he is fired.

if you cant make the right call, why are you a referee.

[werewolf]

bump for relevance.

[Nuvinho]

I think ref accountability is what is needed!!

MLS office every monday, look over game tape.....evaluate refs and let them know if they made a mistake!!