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LucaGol
09-29-2008, 11:29 AM
Simple really?

Who is the better footballer?

Speed: Johann
Footwork: Tie
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Johann
Dribbling: Johann
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Tie
Ability to improve those around him: Tough one, but Id say Johann

Personally, I think they should both start as they are probably are most 2 in form players right now ... but if you had to choose, whom would you start?

Damien
09-29-2008, 11:33 AM
You forgot Experience: Rohan.

colman1860
09-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Simple really?

Who is the better footballer?

Speed: Johann
Footwork: Tie
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Johann
Dribbling: Johann
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Tie
Ability to improve those around him: Tough one, but Id say Johann

Personally, I think they should both start as they are probably are most 2 in form players right now ... but if you had to choose, whom would you start?

To be honest, Id go with Rohan on everything but speed. We need to remember that there's a reason Johann doesnt play very much - weve only seen him briefly in games (hes usually subbed on late), whereas Carver makes that decision based on seeing him every day in practice. Might be good eventually, but he definitely needs alot of work.

ACSertL
09-29-2008, 11:55 AM
I honestly haven't seen enough of Johann Smith to make a really educated judgment on his ability. What I have seen of him has been somewhat promising. I do think that for all of the flashy step-overs he's yet to blow my mind with anything but his pace.

I agree with them being probably our most on form players at the moment and would start them both, but being forced to choose one I would start Ricketts over Smith mainly due to experience, but I'd like to see Johann in the later minutes of the game running at tired defenders.

Roogsy
09-29-2008, 11:56 AM
I like Rohan.

Any way we can use both?

TFC Cityboy
09-29-2008, 11:58 AM
Johann has potential, but I'd prefer to see him do the simple stuff- psh the ball past the defender and chase, get to the byline and whip the crosses in. Step-overs are all well and good in their place, but he should focus on the basics rather than pretend he's a poor man's cronaldo.
Rohan is class - and works his ass off every match imho.

LucaGol
09-29-2008, 12:00 PM
I like Rohan.

Any way we can use both?

I think using both precludes us from using any more than 1 striker.

Maybe something like this:

------------- Robinson
----- Guevara ------- Rosenlund
Ricketts --------------------- Jo. Smith
-------------- Barrett

Roogsy
09-29-2008, 12:01 PM
I think using both precludes us from using any more than 1 striker.

Maybe something like this:

------------- Robinson
----- Guevara ------- Rosenlund
Ricketts --------------------- Jo. Smith
-------------- Barrett


Hmmm...it IS very offensively minded isn't it?

After all, we are talking about a team that struggles to put in goals. They have to try SOMETHING don't they?

LucaGol
09-29-2008, 12:02 PM
Im actually mildly surprised at the lukewarm impression that Johann Smith has left on some of you.

For me, he's always creating dangerous opportunities when the ball comes to his feet. He's pretty explosive off the dribble in terms of MLS quality.

Roogsy
09-29-2008, 12:03 PM
I like his speed.

But like Marvel, loses the handle on the ball a lot more than Ricketts.

LucaGol
09-29-2008, 12:07 PM
Hmmm...it IS very offensively minded isn't it?

After all, we are talking about a team that struggles to put in goals. They have to try SOMETHING don't they?

Rosenlund will have to help Robbo with some of the grunt work in midfield no question ... and Brennan and Wynne will have to be more responsible and stay home rather than getting into any advanced positions. Mainly because I doubt Ricketts and Jo. Smith will track back very far.

But anyways, its something I'd try ... especially since I've been saying we have to play the in-form players. Mainly Rosenlund, Ricketts and Jo.Smith.

This probably means Dichio sits (which I kind of don't like), Harmse and Freeman both will also sit. Which Im sure many would agree is no big loss.

Marshall and Velez will have to attempt to hold the fort at the back.

Also, not really related to the topic of the thread ... but I wouldn't rule out moving Jim Brennan back to CB to partner Tyrone Marshall.

Then we could get even "ballsier" and start Gabe Gala ... who can also beat players off the dribble and has a good football brain.

Wynne -- Marshall -- Brennan -- Gala
------------ Robinson
----- Guevara ------- Rosenlund
Ricketts ------------------- Jo. Smith
-------------- Barrett

Brooker
09-29-2008, 12:14 PM
give Joahann a few starts before you compare him to anybody.

the guy needs some minutes! like a lot of people have said, once he figures out the MLS he'll be explosive.

Benficachop20
09-29-2008, 12:18 PM
I think Smith has to start next match, he just brings more into the attack every time he comes on. Not scared to take on defenders, his speed causes problems, i just think our attack looks more threatening when he's on the field, maybe place Rickets on the right side of the field.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-29-2008, 12:29 PM
Like Rohan but havent seen nearly enough of Johann, also think Johann needs to develop a bit but shows alot of potential. Im hoping to see both on the wings at some point in time.

Zidane10
09-29-2008, 12:33 PM
I think Rohan has more experience and therefore is better, but I really want to see more of Johann in the future. I think that he should at least start some of the time, because I don't want to see all his dribbling talent and speed go to waste.

TFCREDNWHITE
09-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Start'em both!! I think i get more excited watching Johann Smith more!

Ricketts lately has frustrated me, He has had numerous chances to put games away and he hasn't and he has also had numerous chances to create magic and he has failed to do that also!!!!

ben_vw
09-29-2008, 02:53 PM
Rohan on the right, Johann on the left. Simple.

Big Bruva
09-29-2008, 03:12 PM
Rohan on the right, Johann on the left. Simple.

Exactly, its that simple for me.

I think many on here think coz Ro can use his left that he is left footed but he is right footed and Johann is only left footed so i think you just put Johann on the left and Ro on the right.

lol playing the last 10 mins and really turning it on is one thing but playing the full match and doing it is another. The exact same questions were asked about Smithy coz he had a few games when he came on for Ro and was very energetic but if you come on the last 10-15 you better be the most energetic player on the pitch or at least one of. When Smithy started getting more time and not having the same impact fans started getting upset lol

Big Bruva
09-29-2008, 03:15 PM
Simple really?

Who is the better footballer?

Speed: Johann
Footwork: Rohan
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Johann
Dribbling: Rohan
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Rohan
Ability to improve those around him: Tough one, but Id say Rohan

Personally, I think they should both start as they are probably are most 2 in form players right now ... but if you had to choose, whom would you start?

There is no way Johann's and Rohan's lol footwork are the same right now.

Johann is gonna be dangerous and is dangerous right now but like i said before when he learns how to use his speed and improves on his footwork with the speed he will tear defenders up.

I think he should be getting more time and maybe even start a few of the remaining games.

bhoybobby
09-29-2008, 03:57 PM
They're both not up to standard, esp R R, he's simply not performed well enough, no consistency. He's not alone in that regard, but, I expected so much more from him. If that's our best, we won't get better, looks very mediocre.

I think what's killing us is Mo's ability to assess talent as it relates to putting a team that can WIN on the park. Why the fuck we signed so many internationals is beyond me.

Keyman
09-29-2008, 04:14 PM
It's really hard to compare a player who plays as a late sub to a player who consistently plays 70-90 minutes. Smith may look more impressive to some because he can basically give it his all for 15-20 mins. How many players, in all sports, do we see who are deemed "super-subs"?

I think Smith has a great deal of talent and potential, but he's going to have to harness it and show that he can use that talent to make an impact over 90 mins for him to even be mentioned in the same breath as Ricketts.

Both players may also be criticized for spending too much time on the ball, and therefore losing posession. However, I ask you this. If both players look up and have absolutely no options that they are confident with, then why would they attempt to create a chance for another player? We're going to see both players improve greatly if they are surrounded by quality.

FluSH
09-29-2008, 04:28 PM
You forgot Experience: Rohan.

and with it Footy IQ: Rohan

although I would say footwork: Rohan

bhoybobby
09-29-2008, 04:33 PM
It's really hard to compare a player who plays as a late sub to a player who consistently plays 70-90 minutes. Smith may look more impressive to some because he can basically give it his all for 15-20 mins. How many players, in all sports, do we see who are deemed "super-subs"?

I think Smith has a great deal of talent and potential, but he's going to have to harness it and show that he can use that talent to make an impact over 90 mins for him to even be mentioned in the same breath as Ricketts.

Both players may also be criticized for spending too much time on the ball, and therefore losing posession. However, I ask you this. If both players look up and have absolutely no options that they are confident with, then why would they attempt to create a chance for another player? We're going to see both players improve greatly if they are surrounded by quality.

R.R plays the game with his head down all the time, I doubt he'd notice an intelligent run. He can't cross, he hits & hopes. He has skill, no doubt, but he has to get his head up quicker & be more accurate with his crosses.

If he hasn't got that in his game now, I don't see it happening. No football brain & quick feet make for frustrating viewing.

jloome
09-29-2008, 04:37 PM
Holy 'least of our worries', Batman. By this league's standards, they're both good, Ricketts can player either wing, so there's not an issue. To me, you put Freeman -- who at this stage of the season and with his impending departure should be a backup -- on the bench, start RR on the right and Smith on the left.

This would be our most dangerous wing combo since Robert's first few games, before he started running like he was carrying weights. They're both good on the dribble (although Smith is a one-dimensional angle cutter right now, while Ricketts can actually dribble both ways on the run), Smith is faster, Ricketts is better all around. Smith will eventually be very dangerousl, although I think perhaps wasted as a winger when he could play higher as an attacking wide forward.

Either way, that pairing accomodates everything except the 5-3-2, pretty much.

stretchthetruth
09-29-2008, 04:40 PM
i would have to say footwork and dribbling Rohan too... but i think we need to see more of Johann...

Keyman
09-29-2008, 04:41 PM
R.R plays the game with his head down all the time, I doubt he'd notice an intelligent run. He can't cross, he hits & hopes. He has skill, no doubt, but he has to get his head up quicker & be more accurate with his crosses.

If he hasn't got that in his game now, I don't see it happening. No football brain & quick feet make for frustrating viewing.

This is just my opinion, but I think Rohan is just a step ahead of other players. Toronto's forwards just simply cannot get their heads on the ball, no matter how well the ball is put into the box. If Rohan, or any player on the flank actually had someone to aim for, it would make a big difference in my opinion.

I do agree that Rohan does put his head down too much, however, I do praise him at points for this mentality as well. He's one of the only players on the team that will actually challenge a defender one on one.

CretanBull
09-29-2008, 05:38 PM
Simple really?

Who is the better footballer?

Speed: Johann
Footwork: Tie
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Johann
Dribbling: Johann
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Tie
Ability to improve those around him: Tough one, but Id say Johann


Speed: Johann
Footwork: Rohan by far
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Rohan
Dribbling: Rohan by far
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Rohan
Ability to improve those around him: Rohan
Not being born in England to satisfy they haters: Johann


I think Johann is going to be a good player for us in the future, and I think he should be counted on to be one of the building blocks for next season but right now Rohan is much better....with all due respect to Johann, it's not even a close - or fair - comparison at this point.

IF Rohan can find some consistancy - and I think that will come next season, he'll have the advantage of training camp with his teammates, being familiar with the oppostion and most importantly hopefully stability in terms of the starting XI - he'll be a star in this league.

LucaGol
09-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Tbh, I think they share a lot of the same qualities.

Im not dissing Rohan by any means ... I think he's an important part of our team going forward and enjoy watching him very much ...

I was just curious to see who was preferred of the two considering their attributes are practically mirrored.

If there's maybe one thing that separates the two is that Johann seems to be more direct in his approach. Get the ball, there's the net ... that's where Im going. Whereas Rohan will assess a few different attacking options.

As I previously mentioned, I desperately want to see both of them play a full 90 minutes together to see what they could accomplish.

Im tired of the same old drab approach. It's time to inject some youth and firepower into this tired line-up. Not a shot at anyone really ... just an observation.

Bobo
09-29-2008, 08:15 PM
Since when does Rohan dribble? If he did maybe he wouldn't be so damn predictable.

Johann is not at Ricketts' level technically, but his approach is a million times better.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-30-2008, 01:03 AM
Simple really?

Who is the better footballer?

Speed: Johann
Footwork: Tie
Passing: Rohan
Shooting: Johann
Dribbling: Johann
Vision: Rohan
Crossing: Tie


What are you basing this on? How many shots on target has Johann even had for TFC? Certainly fewer than Ricketts, who has scored a few times for us.

I like Johann and think he has lots of potential. What I don’t get is why he and Ibrahim are handed the keys to the kingdom but Gala can’t even get into a game as a sub. I’m unconvinced that Johann and Ibrahim have more talent / potential than Gabe Gala. I’ll go one further, I’m unconvinced that Johann and Ibrahim are more talented Selvin Lammie.

J .
09-30-2008, 01:14 AM
i dislike jo 'crazy legs' smith... he is not very good at all.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-30-2008, 01:19 AM
I think he’s good and has lots of upside, but he’s too step over crazy - makes him look like a product of the sillywalks football academy.

Shakes McQueen
09-30-2008, 04:57 AM
I honestly haven't seen enough of Johann Smith to make a really educated judgment on his ability. What I have seen of him has been somewhat promising. I do think that for all of the flashy step-overs he's yet to blow my mind with anything but his pace.

I agree with them being probably our most on form players at the moment and would start them both, but being forced to choose one I would start Ricketts over Smith mainly due to experience, but I'd like to see Johann in the later minutes of the game running at tired defenders.

This is pretty much my opinion, unless we can begin starting Jo Smith on the opposite wing from Ricketts. Which by the way, I think we should start trying the minute the playoffs are mathematically out of the picture (assuming they eventually are), just to see how he does.

Big Bruva makes a good point though - we are all blown away by Johann's pace, yet we have never seen him play a full 90 minutes for the club. For those of you frustrated that he hasn't gotten a start yet - perhaps this is why. Certainly Carver sees more of him week-in week-out than we do.

Let's get Ricketts resigned for next season first, though. Get it done. Mo. He is part of the heart of this team, love's the city, and leaves it all out on the pitch every week.

Someone should hang up a banner saying "Resign Ricketts" for our next home match.

- Scott

BuSaPuNk
09-30-2008, 06:22 AM
Someone should hang up a banner saying "Resign Ricketts" for our next home match.

- Scott

Totally agree. Ricketts plays with heart and leaves it all out on the field, and that can't be said about alot of the other players. Let's get the banner done. It would be intresting to see them play at the same time on the wings though. If Johan Smith can get some better quality on this touch he would be explosive with his speed.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-30-2008, 08:08 AM
make that Re-Sign Ricketts, cuz resign Ricketts has different intonations behind it

Keegan
09-30-2008, 08:10 AM
Johann is a league 2 player guys. All speed, no skill.

Rohan at least sat on the bench in the Championship

Shakes McQueen
09-30-2008, 08:11 AM
make that Re-Sign Ricketts, cuz resign Ricketts has different intonations behind it

True enough, haha.

- Scott

jloome
09-30-2008, 06:38 PM
Johann is a league 2 player guys. All speed, no skill.

Rohan at least sat on the bench in the Championship

Couldn't disagree more. He has at least two decent moves to beat a guy -- and has done so -- has huge speed and when he did play striker, with the use U20 team, scored four goals in five exhibition matches. Plus, he was on the books at Bolton for two years, at which point they would likely have had to make him a first-teamer to get his work permit renewed, which wasn't going to happen.

So it's way too early to pass judgment at this level. I'll echo Luca's sentiment: he's willing to take a run at people and has done pretty well at it, so let's see some more.

In fact, I'd rather see him come into games than Ibee, who is not even close to ready to play every week at this level (if for physical reasons alone).

Marco2K
10-05-2008, 09:02 AM
After that sweat cross and another ugly game be Rickkets i think Smith should start the next game.


Rohan has been playing terrible. He has been playing so damn soft.

And he never makes any good crosses. Just terrible.

Draracle
10-05-2008, 09:20 AM
Ricketts comes with that extra tricky second foot. I think the coaches on the other teams know it too, Rohan is constantly getting double and tripple teamed. They just don't want him with space and one defender coming down the wing.

Batman
10-05-2008, 10:11 AM
Media Whore: Rohan wins hands down.

Shakes McQueen
10-05-2008, 11:10 AM
Ricketts comes with that extra tricky second foot. I think the coaches on the other teams know it too, Rohan is constantly getting double and tripple teamed. They just don't want him with space and one defender coming down the wing.

Yep. I still like Ricketts on the wing. He draws all kinds of attention.

Put Jo Smith out on the right next match, as a starter. See what happens.

- Scott

Pachuco
10-05-2008, 11:33 AM
I have no idea why Carver has a hard on for Freeman. Johann should be starting on the left. You know what's a joke? Carver says, "you are all playing for a contract tonight". So if that's the case, why does Freeman start? THE ONLY GUY ON THE TEAM THAT HAS ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH ANOTHER TEAM.

It shouldn't be Johann vs Rohan, it should be Johann AND Rohan!!

Ron Manager
10-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Johann has a lot of upside and will be very good for us in time. He needs to develop his footy IQ which is where Rohan has him beat hands down. He reminds me of Wynne last year....all the physical gifts any player could dream of...no game smarts and lacking a bit of first touch. We have seen Wynne improve those aspects of his game and become a hugely improved overall player as evidenced in the last 2 matches. Jo Smith will have to develop the same way to truly be a first 11 player. He can do it, he showed us as much with a beatiful run and cross to Ibrahim last night. It will take some time but look to see him be even better next year.
For now, he is great off the bench late using his size and speed to terrorize tired defenders. Just like he did last night.

S_D
10-05-2008, 11:57 AM
I think it is that Freeman just has more experience.

LucaGol
10-05-2008, 12:19 PM
I have no idea why Carver has a hard on for Freeman. Johann should be starting on the left. You know what's a joke? Carver says, "you are all playing for a contract tonight". So if that's the case, why does Freeman start? THE ONLY GUY ON THE TEAM THAT HAS ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH ANOTHER TEAM.

It shouldn't be Johann vs Rohan, it should be Johann AND Rohan!!

My sentiments ... exactly.

(Even though I started this thread ... it was more just to bring to the fore Johann's attributes.)

Johann and Rohan could work very very well. Come on Johnny C, we want to see Johann for 90.

Marco2K
10-05-2008, 12:24 PM
I just dont get the love for Ricketts. everytime he touches the ball i end up cursing.

LucaGol
10-05-2008, 12:38 PM
I just dont get the love for Ricketts. everytime he touches the ball i end up cursing.

He has a positive attitude with the football.

Always looking to go forward and to attack.

Ok, he's not a completely polished player and perhaps never will be otherwise he'd be plying his trade in the EPL, ... but he provides a lot of quality to our team.

And he, just like any other player has good and bad stretches ... he just so happens to have lost some of his form recently.

Aside from all that, he's our second most productive player, other than Amado Guevara and not counting Barrett's goals and assists from Chicago.

At 2 goals and 4 assists (and probably more plays set up that didn't officially register as assists) ... he is a key player for us.


I would look for Rohan next year to really up his numbers next season now that he knows what the league, city and our team are all about.

jloome
10-05-2008, 12:56 PM
He has a positive attitude with the football.

Always looking to go forward and to attack.

Ok, he's not a completely polished player and perhaps never will be otherwise he'd be plying his trade in the EPL, ... but he provides a lot of quality to our team.

And he, just like any other player has good and bad stretches ... he just so happens to have lost some of his form recently.

Aside from all that, he's our second most productive player, other than Amado Guevara and not counting Barrett's goals and assists from Chicago.

At 2 goals and 4 assists (and probably more plays set up that didn't officially register as assists) ... he is a key player for us.


I would look for Rohan next year to really up his numbers next season now that he knows what the league, city and our team are all about.

More to the point, for every one of those four assists, there were four good balls put into the box but with no one running onto goal. Both he and Robert wasted more crosses because of a lack of striker support in the first half of the season than I've ever seen.

Fort York Redcoat
10-06-2008, 07:40 AM
If Wynne leaves next year we will need to see if these two can form a stronger partnership. Not the same skill set for all but they all have talent to build from. Hopefully in the futere consistentsy in the squad will breed success.

J .
10-06-2008, 09:00 PM
I finally saw what others saw in Smith, it was the first time I finally was like, man he aint bad. But it was the first time I was really happy with something he did. But, if he could be that guy, then I think it would be great. So, we shall see, I truly hope it pans out.

Between the two, I'd give Ricketts the start, he has more experience and he is more polished. But I like the idea of Jo Smith comming off the bench. This however, will finally put the pressure on Ricketts to be an allstar calibre player in MLS, that he could be or next year he could find himself on the bench.

J .
10-06-2008, 09:11 PM
I just watched the GOTW...The future is bright . Jo to Abbe. Niiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Honestly, that is some wicked shit. I went crazy when it happened.

http://web.mlsnet.com/sights/goal_of_the_week/

check out Ibbys goal.

Like I said ^ lets hope that is what we can expect from him in the future, not legs going all wobby like ealier. But yeah, that was sweet.

Torcida
10-06-2008, 11:05 PM
Johann by a mile and a half.

James17930
10-08-2008, 12:39 AM
I have no idea why Carver has a hard on for Freeman. Johann should be starting on the left. You know what's a joke? Carver says, "you are all playing for a contract tonight". So if that's the case, why does Freeman start? THE ONLY GUY ON THE TEAM THAT HAS ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH ANOTHER TEAM.

It shouldn't be Johann vs Rohan, it should be Johann AND Rohan!!

I know. What the hell is Freeman doing on the wing? I thought he was a back-up defender.

Anyway -- Jo. Smith on the left and Ro on the right are fantastic wing options IMO. I can def. see them being the starters next year.

jloome
10-08-2008, 12:59 AM
I know. What the hell is Freeman doing on the wing? I thought he was a back-up defender.

Anyway -- Jo. Smith on the left and Ro on the right are fantastic wing options IMO. I can def. see them being the starters next year.

Freeman has a rep as a quality player, which is why Bruce Arena thought he was safe trading Marvell Wynne. It's also why he's probably going to make four times the salary playing in Sweden. Regardless, he's a wingback primarily, not an attacker. Ricketts is naturally right footed. We should play him on the right, Smith on the left, simple.

LucaGol
10-08-2008, 06:29 AM
^ I think Arena felt safe trading Marvell Wynne was because of Dane Richards ... not Hunter Freeman.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-08-2008, 07:15 AM
^ I think Arena felt safe trading Marvell Wynne was because of Dane Richards ... not Hunter Freeman.

Nah, Danes a winger, Wynne was playing Rb, as was Hunter