Gained on several teams

[jloome]

Just as a side note to the game, we got pretty much every single result we could use yesterday and today.

Gained a point on KC, NY, DC, San Jose, all of whom lost. Too lucky. If we'd have had three it would've been halfway to that last spot.

Huckerby scored both San Jose's goals. Cunningham scored one for Dallas.

[Roogsy]

As long as we don't wind up in last place (wooden spoon) and we end up with more points than last year, I will see it as a small victory. Not enough to make me happy, but had that been the case, I think I would have been devastated.

[Super]

As long as we don't wind up in last place (wooden spoon) and we end up with more points than last year, I will see it as a small victory. Not enough to make me happy, but had that been the case, I think I would have been devastated.

We already have more points now than we did when we finished last season (3 pts more). Unfortunately with 3 away and only 1 home game left it's going to be beyond difficult to not win the wooden spoon at the end of the season.

[Roogsy]

1 down, 1 objective to go.

It's sad that it's come down to the finish line to make sure it doens't happen. All the more reason that the fans need to keep pushing for results rather than simply giving up on the season.

[giambac]

Just as a side note to the game, we got pretty much every single result we could use yesterday and today.

Gained a point on KC, NY, DC, San Jose, all of whom lost. Too lucky. If we'd have had three it would've been halfway to that last spot.

Huckerby scored both San Jose's goals. Cunningham scored one for Dallas.

One point gain when you are 6 points back is nothing. For TFC a tie ha sthe same result as a loss- they still have to gain 2 wins on the teams ahead of them.

It won't happen.

[Beach_Red]

One point gain when you are 6 points back is nothing. For TFC a tie ha sthe same result as a loss- they still have to gain 2 wins on the teams ahead of them.

It won't happen.

The most frustrating thing, I think, is how the playoffs have remained a possibility even through all this crappy play. Two games aganst Chivas and a game against KC was all it would have taken...

[ensco]

Cunningham: 5 goals in 7 games

I don't like to think about this, the conclusions you'd draw aren't good ones

[OneLoveOneEric]

^^^How people don't chalk that up to coaching is beyond me.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Just as a side note to the game, we got pretty much every single result we could use yesterday and today.

Gained a point on KC, NY, DC, San Jose, all of whom lost. Too lucky. If we'd have had three it would've been halfway to that last spot.

Huckerby scored both San Jose's goals. Cunningham scored one for Dallas.


Huckerby we miss...:) on this weeks haltime show on gol Mo stated that
Cunningham wanted out of Toronto, so that explain his poor form,
he just didn't give a shit...Mo also went on to say Carver wanted him out too:D. were at new york on saturday 3points is possible and if we get more help??

[rocker]

^^^How people don't chalk that up to coaching is beyond me.

ya, you can coach so badly he'll miss open nets and one-on-ones with the keeper... sure.... ;)

Cunningham's problems had nothing to do with coaching... he had more than enough easy chances where it was just him and the goal, or him and the keeper.

Cunningham is a fluky player, judging by his season by season goal numbers.

He scored 12 goals in 1999, then the next year he had 2 goals. He scored 16 in 2002, then the next year he had 5. He scored 16 in 2006, and the next year he scored 6.... I think you can see a pattern there.
He's a flake.

[shwade]

those late road losses and even lost points at home are haunting us now.

[Beach_Red]

Huckerby we miss...:) on this weeks haltime show on gol Mo stated that
Cunningham wanted out of Toronto, so that explain his poor form,
he just didn't give a shit...Mo also went on to say Carver wanted him out too:D. were at new york on saturday 3points is possible and if we get more help??

Sometimes people just don't get along - that's the thing about team chemistry. So, Cunningham and Carver didn't get along. Clearly that was a problem for the team.

The question is, what about Craver and the rest of players? Are there others he'll have to get rid of?

It's still possible to pass New York. After the TFC game next week, their final three games are on the road against RSL and Chicago and home to Columbus. The could easily lose all of those.

KC, 4 points ahead, play New England twice (home and away), San Jose and Chicago at home. No easy games.

[Shakes McQueen]

^^^How people don't chalk that up to coaching is beyond me.

Say, for example, when Cunny missed that sitter right on the goal line against Montreal - was that a coaching problem? The guy was a footballer for several years before Carver came into his life, and he knew how to put the ball into the net back then. Even a terrible coach can't somehow make you forget a fundamental skill like that.

Cunningham simply didn't give a shit when he was in Toronto. I don't care if he scores a thousand goals between now and the end of the season for Dallas - he didn't play that was for us, and if anything, we should hate him even more now for it.

No regrets in ridding ourselves of that douchebag. He wanted out, and he got out.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Sometimes people just don't get along - that's the thing about team chemistry. So, Cunningham and Carver didn't get along. Clearly that was a problem for the team.

The question is, what about Craver and the rest of players? Are there others he'll have to get rid of?

It's still possible to pass New York. After the TFC game next week, their final three games are on the road against RSL and Chicago and home to Columbus. The could easily lose all of those.

KC, 4 points ahead, play New England twice (home and away), San Jose and Chicago at home. No easy games.

The players we have that put in a solid 90 minutes most weeks - Ricketts, Dichio, Robbo, Sutton, Barrett - all seem to like Carver a lot. I don't care what the rest think, because it sounsd like a lot of them might be riding the train out of town soon anyway.

- Scott

[bhoybobby]

The players we have that put in a solid 90 minutes most weeks - Ricketts, Dichio, Robbo, Sutton, Barrett - all seem to like Carver a lot. I don't care what the rest think, because it sounsd like a lot of them might be riding the train out of town soon anyway.

- Scott

If I were Rohan, I'd love Carver to. I don't see what this guy brings, he's way over rated. We're not gonna win with him as one of our supposed top players.

We still have the same lack of quality we had at the end of last year. If Mo signs another international player from a banana republic, he should be shot.

[Shakes McQueen]

If I were Rohan, I'd love Carver to. I don't see what this guy brings, he's way over rated. We're not gonna win with him as one of our supposed top players.

We still have the same lack of quality we had at the end of last year. If Mo signs another international player from a banana republic, he should be shot.

I want to see what Ricketts can do with a competent striker core, allowing him to do what he does best - feed in balls from the wing.

He isn't the best player in the league, but he leaves his guts out there on the pitch every week. Just needs his confidence back.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

I like to think that we're playing for pride no matter where we are in the standings. If there was no playoffs teams like ours wouldn't have the excuse to just be good enough to sneak in and go for a run. But NA whatever...

[Oldtimer]

The key is that a lot of players on the team were chosen by Mo before Carver came along. Carver needs the chance to build his own team.

If you listen to Carver's post-game comments after the Houston match, he says that only now does he know the players in MLS and has an idea of who he wants. Before that, he had to depend on what he knew (English players). We have yet to see what type of team Carver can build from MLS material instead of past-their-prime players from England.

[Maple Leaf Red]

^^^How people don't chalk that up to coaching is beyond me.
Prove that it should be chalked up to coaching.

[trane]

^ I usualy agree with OneLoveOneEric, but in this case, Cunny had enough scoring opportunities while playing for TFC. At the end of the day, the Coach, can only put together the system which puts you in the best position to capotalize on you strenghs. Whatever the other problems of the team are, Cunny had his chances.

[druid]

Prove that it should be chalked up to coaching.

Proof isn't possible until all those involved decide they can speak out but if you want a rationale backed up by the stats and public behavior...

Players like Cunningham need two things: tactics to suit the fact that they only know how to play one way and confidence. It's likely that when the tactics were on, Carver's 1950 man management style just wasn't doing the trick to get Cunningham over the 100 hump jitters.

Cunningham is getting what he needs to produce from his new coaching staff and he's back on track. I'm not saying Cunningham is not a hot house flower but a better coach staff seems to be getting more out of him and results are what counts.

[Beach_Red]

The key is that a lot of players on the team were chosen by Mo before Carver came along. Carver needs the chance to build his own team.

If you listen to Carver's post-game comments after the Houston match, he says that only now does he know the players in MLS and has an idea of who he wants. Before that, he had to depend on what he knew (English players). We have yet to see what type of team Carver can build from MLS material instead of past-their-prime players from England.

You're right - he's got to find a way to win in MLS, it's not the same as any other league. And not every player will agree to play in the MLS, so Carver's going to have to put the best team together from the players willing to come.

A lot of those players are from "Banana Republics" as Bhoybobby says - that's just the reality, we'll have to make the best of it.

Canada, after all, is just a Banana Republic with snow.

[giambac]

The most frustrating thing, I think, is how the playoffs have remained a possibility even through all this crappy play. Two games aganst Chivas and a game against KC was all it would have taken...

You mean like that game vs KC back in JUne when our caoch benched our regular international players. Are you talking about that game;)

WOW if only we could turn the clock back. I said it would come back to haunt us.

[giambac]

^^^How people don't chalk that up to coaching is beyond me.

Cunninghams lack of succesc in Toronto and his big success in Dallas has everything to do with coaching.

In Toronto his dumbass coach never spoke to him. The only time he spoke to him was thru the media where he constantly critcized him. Carver showed no confidence in Cunningham and absolutley no respect in him. Actually Carver treated him like a dog. In turn, Cunny lost respect for the coach and his heart was no longer in the team. He was not motivated to go out and perform for a backstabber, selfish coach.

He moved to Dallas where the coach let him play and kept his mouth shut. He now has more goals than anyone on TFC.

His poor play can be 100% contributed to his coach in Toronto

[Fort York Redcoat]

Carver didn't criticize him his first games here. Cunny didn't score like he just did in Dallas.

Carver NEVER spoke to Cunny?

0% proven.

[rocker]

Players like Cunningham need two things: tactics to suit the fact that they only know how to play one way and confidence.

Cunningham is getting what he needs to produce from his new coaching staff and he's back on track. I'm not saying Cunningham is not a hot house flower but a better coach staff seems to be getting more out of him and results are what counts.

Interesting theory, but in Cunningham's history he's been up and down like a toilet seat *despite* have a consistency in coaching in over a good part of his career.

in columbus, he had the same head coach from 1998-2001 (4 seasons), then another head coach from 2001-2004 (3 season)... and his goal total fluctuated greatly from season to season = 8, 12, 2, 10, 16, 5, 9.

Unless those coaches changed their tactics every season or forgot how to coach him, then I don't buy it that it's coaching.
It could be chemistry with his teammates, or it could just be his mental attitude. he doesn't have what it takes to be a consistent professional.

It just bugs me that people were all over Cunningham on here for his easy missed on easy chances, and now people are giving him an excuse, a way out... I think his failure should be firmly on his shoulders, and he shouldn't be let off the hook.

[rocker]

Players like Cunningham need two things: tactics to suit the fact that they only know how to play one way and confidence.

Cunningham is getting what he needs to produce from his new coaching staff and he's back on track. I'm not saying Cunningham is not a hot house flower but a better coach staff seems to be getting more out of him and results are what counts.

Interesting theory, but in Cunningham's history he's been up and down like a toilet seat *despite* have a consistency in coaching in over a good part of his career. I don't think it's coaching at all.

in columbus, he had the same head coach from 1998-2001 (4 seasons), then another head coach from 2001-2004 (3 season)... and his goal total fluctuated greatly from season to season = 8, 12, 2, 10, 16, 5, 9.

Unless those coaches changed their tactics every season or forgot how to coach him, then I don't buy it that it's coaching.
It could be chemistry with his teammates, or it could just be his mental attitude. he doesn't have what it takes to be a consistent professional.

It just bugs me that people were all over Cunningham on here for his easy misses on easy chances, and now people are giving him an excuse, a way out... I think his failure should be firmly on his shoulders, and he shouldn't be let off the hook.

[Beach_Red]

You mean like that game vs KC back in JUne when our caoch benched our regular international players. Are you talking about that game;)

WOW if only we could turn the clock back. I said it would come back to haunt us.

It would be great if it was really that easy. Not starting the regulars was definitely a mistake and Carver didn't make it again. Unfortunately, that didn't solve everything or suddenly make the MLS exactly like other leagues. He still had/has a lot to figure out.

We can either bring in another MLS coach who knows the league, someone who's currently working as an assistant somewhere else and is willing to come here, or we go through at least a season learning curve.

Let's face it, telling some guy an an expansion team in the MLS that he might lose his job has no real significance - it's hardly the same motivator as telling some on a European team, he'll lose his job.

[sidvan]

Let's make sure we beat SJ when we play them. That'll go a long way to making sure we don"t "win" the wooden spoon.

[OneLoveOneEric]

Of course I can't prove it, but when a player is great before he comes to TO, shit while here, and then great after he leaves, it's certainly a plausible theory. From my view, Cunny looked marginalized by the team and coaching (and yes, I believe a lot of that was his own doing). And of course Carver didn't miss the sitters that Cunny missed, but a guy like Cunningham needs his ego stroked a bit, like many good strikers, and I don't think Carver was willing to play along. I don't think anything was done to try to help increases Cunningham's confidence at the team while he was here. I think that we all knew for ages that he would be leaving, and that his role in the team was over. Once that happens, there's no way he's going to produce.
And no, I can't prove any of this, but neither can anyone else here. It's just a theory, and I don't think it's a crazy one.
Cunningham wouldn't be the first player to leave Toronto and do better elsewhere....

[LucaGol]

Of course I can't prove it, but when a player is great before he comes to TO, shit while here, and then great after he leaves, it's certainly a plausible theory. From my view, Cunny looked marginalized by the team and coaching (and yes, I believe a lot of that was his own doing). And of course Carver didn't miss the sitters that Cunny missed, but a guy like Cunningham needs his ego stroked a bit, like many good strikers, and I don't think Carver was willing to play along. I don't think anything was done to try to help increases Cunningham's confidence at the team while he was here. I think that we all knew for ages that he would be leaving, and that his role in the team was over. Once that happens, there's no way he's going to produce.
And no, I can't prove any of this, but neither can anyone else here. It's just a theory, and I don't think it's a crazy one.
Cunningham wouldn't be the first player to leave Toronto and do better elsewhere....

I'd buy that theory.

Cunningham just didn't seem a fit for TFC from day one when he missed the breakaway opportunity. He just never meshed well with the team.

[olegunnar]

Of course I can't prove it, but when a player is great before he comes to TO, shit while here, and then great after he leaves, it's certainly a plausible theory. From my view, Cunny looked marginalized by the team and coaching (and yes, I believe a lot of that was his own doing). And of course Carver didn't miss the sitters that Cunny missed, but a guy like Cunningham needs his ego stroked a bit, like many good strikers, and I don't think Carver was willing to play along. I don't think anything was done to try to help increases Cunningham's confidence at the team while he was here. I think that we all knew for ages that he would be leaving, and that his role in the team was over. Once that happens, there's no way he's going to produce.
And no, I can't prove any of this, but neither can anyone else here. It's just a theory, and I don't think it's a crazy one.
Cunningham wouldn't be the first player to leave Toronto and do better elsewhere....

I think that if you tallied 1) the players that played to the level or exceeded the level of their abilities and 2) the players that played below that level, the second column would be a hell of a lot longer than the first column.

That to me is cause to be concerned about management.

In the specific example of Cunningham I think it's unfair thought to judge this soon. He seems to have a successful honeymoon period with clubs then his form goes down the crapper.

[Beach_Red]

I think that if you tallied 1) the players that played to the level or exceeded the level of their abilities and 2) the players that played below that level, the second column would be a hell of a lot longer than the first column.

That to me is cause to be concerned about management.



Agreed. Though it may also speak to MLS as a whole. Soccer in North America has long had a reputation as a bit of an easy retirement, one last payday before checking out for many players and a safe spot for American players who can't make it elsewhere. That rarely leads to extra effort.

But it is changing. The singing of Huckerby, in fact, is a big step in this direction. Wish it had been with TFC, but we had our chance.

[giambac]

Of course I can't prove it, but when a player is great before he comes to TO, shit while here, and then great after he leaves, it's certainly a plausible theory. From my view, Cunny looked marginalized by the team and coaching (and yes, I believe a lot of that was his own doing). And of course Carver didn't miss the sitters that Cunny missed, but a guy like Cunningham needs his ego stroked a bit, like many good strikers, and I don't think Carver was willing to play along. I don't think anything was done to try to help increases Cunningham's confidence at the team while he was here. I think that we all knew for ages that he would be leaving, and that his role in the team was over. Once that happens, there's no way he's going to produce.
And no, I can't prove any of this, but neither can anyone else here. It's just a theory, and I don't think it's a crazy one.
Cunningham wouldn't be the first player to leave Toronto and do better elsewhere....

I buy into your theory,

Under a different coach with a better system in toronto, Cunny would have succeeded. It's hard to succeed on a team when the coach has no confidence in you, bitches about you to the media, and basically has no designed system for the team. Like you said Cuuny was good before he came to toronto and he is doing well again in Dallas. His stint in TO was a disaster and people have to look at the sysytem and the coach. Period.