yesterday after the match.

[karlosarmenta]

Yesterday I went to the TFC match with my son his friend and a few friends of mine. After the match they had allowed
kids on the field to take a shot at a tony the tiger mascot. My son and his friend asked if it was ok to go on
the field to take a shot, which I figured to be no problem. I asked my friends to come with me and wait for the
kids to take there shot. We had gone up to 113 section and wait for him there. one of the security guards had got
on his radio and with in seconds an older skinny grey haired security guard had come running across the field. He
had asked us to leave the stadium immediately, I explained to him that I wasn't going to do that because my son was
on field about to take a shot, he insisted that we all leave the stadium at once or he will call police in. I told
him again I was not going to leave my son and his friend alone in the stadium, and I continued to watch my son
from the stands. The security guard got on the radio and called in the police. two officers walked into the stands
and confronted me and asked me to leave. I looked down at the security guard and yelled out at him "do you have a
problem with the fact that I do not look like a typical father? that I am young and my friends beside me are
black?,look at all the other parents watching there kids, why don't you harass them?" the officer asked one
more time to leave, so we did. as I was leaving I looked back at the security guard, he looked back at me and gave
one big smirk, I was outraged at the time so I spit at the ground in front of me in disgust of his actions. I
walked through the 113 tunnel and was ready to leave the stadium, I was approached by an officer, and was told that
I was being charged for assault for spitting gum at the security guard. I could not believe what I was hearing!,
I told the officer that I don't even remember the last time I had chewed a piece of gum? I waited down by 113
an officer stood guard beside me while other officers where taking a statement from the security guard. by that
time my son walked off the field and was told to go with my friends because I was being arrested.
Yes I understand that I am a young 32 year old father, with a 13 year old son and my friends and I may look
like trouble makers,but we are not! nor have I ever caused problems at the stadium. We go there to enjoy the match
and have a good time. I also understand the one younger security guard getting nervous when he saw a group of
guys walk back in the stands (7 of us), but the need for the older officer to come jetting across the field feeling
the need to take control of the the matter put him bang out of line, with his actions and unwillingness to
listen to me, The fact that he felt the need to give me a sarcastic smirk was also inappropriate. I'll I can say
is thank you to the security for treating the situation in such a matter, and now my son will probably never
trust you guys again THANK YOU!

[karlosarmenta]

by the way, maybe I should not have brought the race thing into this or should have spit on the ground, but that still doesnt warrant the gaurd to act in the matter he did.

[Ladies Love Julius James]

That fuckin sucks bro. Can't say it hasn't happened to me, leaves a bitter taste in your mouth for sure.

[FluSH]

We have lawyers... not sure if they do criminal law though. All joking aside, I can't believe what happened to you. I do hope your charges get dropped. That was just uncalled for.

[Roogsy]

Do you have any witnesses?

I have never heard of spitting on the ground being grounds for assault. This is ridiculous. Security at BMO is a joke.

The guy beside me was harassed by security because his beer "didn't look right". The girl couldn't recognize the dark colour of the Tetley brand (or whatever it is they sell at BMO) and brought in her manager.

This is the crap they are watching out for? And yet they can't catch ONE beer throwing at all???

Security at BMO = FAIL.

[wzhxvy]

I am really sorry to hear that happened to you. Unfortunately that happens too often when you put people who barely graduated high school in a position of authority. You can not reason with them, and their position as security or police allows them to overcompensate for their other failings in life. I would also officially advise MLSE of the incident by the way.

[karlosarmenta]

Yes I have a few witness's I already have my friend who is a NEE, ask me if I needed his support in anyway. He thinks that the security tried provoking the situation also noticed the smirk that was sent my way.

[karlosarmenta]

Yes I do plan on passing this along to MLSE, thanks.

[The Kingpin]

Another EPIC FAIL by Marc. Marc, you do realise what an absolute failure your security is do you not? You have zero control over them and limited control over the facility... This has been going on since game one and promises have been made that appropriate measures would be taken. I'm not sure if this situation warrants an arrest as I did not witness it. But based on history, I'm inclined to believe that security made a meal of this as always. TFC will do very little to improve this, I mean they couldn't even manage housing banners. How shambolic has TFC management become on some level, and they used to seem so cool. I guess their hubris is running the show now. It's really too bad as NEE/RPB/U-Sec, etc made them what they are, and they allow this to happen to the people who pay their wages. I day write the club and explain, they may be able to help... They certainly should if the situation warrants it. Paul, are you ready to swoop in a be "Pure Class"? :)

I hope one day Marc can get it right before someone gets seriously hurt.

[flatpicker]

What a joke!
Why on Earth would they tell a parent to leave the stadium if his kid is on the field???!!!
Maybe the press would like to know that MLSE does not approve of child safety???

And Roogsy... "the beer doesn't look right"???!!! Man! We have some dimwitted security in that place!!!

[Roogsy]

To be honest, the level of harassment from security needs to be addressed as a group. In particular RPB, but the other groups as well, none of us have had real problems with security. We are not the pitch-invaders, we are not the beer-throwers, the worst we do is throw streamers.

And that merits this harassment?

They can't catch anyone doing anything wrong...so instead they start bullying the supporters groups. They're lucky things haven't gotten ugly yet...but that time is coming if they don't get their act straight.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

it was all over the score board..kids come down field after the game and have your pictures with tony the tiger..so WTF is securitys problem...will a protest with TFC about the security...too bad your day was spoiled.

[The Kingpin]

To be honest, the level of harassment from security needs to be addressed as a group. In particular RPB, but the other groups as well, none of us have had real problems with security. We are not the pitch-invaders, we are not the beer-throwers, the worst we do is throw streamers.

And that merits this harassment?

They can't catch anyone doing anything wrong...so instead they start bullying the supporters groups. They're lucky things haven't gotten ugly yet...but that time is coming if they don't get their act straight.

Fisrt of all the point Flatpicker makes is exactly the core thing I was thinking, how can you ask someone to leave when their child is on the field.

Roogsy, these issues have been addressed over and over again. I addressed it after game 2 last year. I suggested things will only get worse and Marc, Paul and Cesar have ignored the concerns. They suggested they would help, but Marc has dropped the ball in a very large way. Something extremely serious will happen and the clubs will get blamed. I also fielded this on RPL, and again no one has listened.

[sully]

Do security people have to wear ID like the cops? If not, perhaps they should so that they can be held accountable for their behaviour.

Having said that, I think it's important to recognise that the majority of security, I have to believe, are responsible and respectful.

[zeelaw]

That is fucked. We need to start making flags/signs that have a go at cops

:).

[flatpicker]

Do security people have to wear ID like the cops? If not, perhaps they should so that they can be held accountable for their behaviour.

Having said that, I think it's important to recognise that the majority of security, I have to believe, are responsible and respectful.

you know the old saying about "one bad apple"...
unfortunately you can't avoid painting a group with the same brush when a few make asses of themselves.
if a few security fuck up, then all security looks bad.
when a few supporters fuck up, then all supporters look bad...
(just read some of those hooligan press articles recently for proof of that.)

[Toronto_Bhoy]

So simple.

Children are invited to stay after the game for a "PR op"…set up an area for parents and friends to wait…no problem.

PROBLEM! These are really easy things to solve…I've worked in event marketing. If your dealing with kids you gotta expect parents to be hanging around. Like Kingpin said, I wasn't there and if karlosarmenta acted "unreasonably"…things can quickly escalate into something ridiculous…as it appears to have here. Where were all the other parents? Way wasn't security told where to move waiting parents? No parent is leaving an event without their kid!

No question security at BMO is a very real problem but karlosarmenta and his son could easily have had a pleasurable ending to their afternoon if TFC had thought things through. It's not hard to do…

[SilverSamurai]

This is pathetic. I hope things get better before they get worst, but have a feelilng that the only form of defense is going to be video evidence since the odds are staked against us sadly.

[Kickit09]

BMO Field security & Toronto Police.....

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s16/r3v3r3nd_album/fail1.jpg

[Valentine]

As one of the people who was there and witnessed this - I can say in all honesty the security were rude, inconsiderate, and most importantly unprofessional.

Rude - The looks that we received as a group when we told the security officer that we were waiting for a child on the field. The smirks and then comment - "so who is the real father?"! Where is it appropriate to say this? Who is the REAL father - come one, are you kidding me. When we tried to explain our situation, we again told to leave or the police would be called... So I guess MLSE and BMO want child abandonment of a minor.

Inconsiderate - A moment before the police showed up, we were again belittled by the might security of BMO. This was in form of looks and comments. When I tried to talk to the security about what and why we were waiting, they did not want to hear of it. All they wanted was us out. That is fine and all, but ask politely. Other parents were in the stands watching there children. Most parents yes were on the field, but not all. I saw some bunches of people on the east side of the bleachers who looked like they were having a great time watching their children, grandchildren, family friends, etc on the field kicking to Tony the Tiger. So why can't a (younger) father have his (younger) friends also join him and watch his son and his sons friend kick the ball. Some of us had cameras and were wanting to take pictures. Where was the consideration for us? Their was NONE! POINT BLANK - NONE...

Unprofessional - These security guards did not show any professionalism in their actions towards paying patrons of their facility. Marc and the BMO Field should be ashamed of the way this minor issue was blown out of proportion. Why did we at the end when we were still inside the gates have about 5-7 police circling around us? Why was their about 15 BMO security personal also circling around us? What were we going to do? All it would have taken was 1 person to come and politely ask us to relocate to another part of the stadium to watch. I was in New England in June and I witnessed the best stadium operations in my life. Security was polite, accommodating, and professional. BMO Field can learn a lot from Gillette Stadium, as they were a class act.

Do I intend on returning to BMO Field, yes! But this altercation has and always will leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Nothing against the team (even though their work ethic and results as of recently have not been pleasant either). I hope in the off season, the BMO Field learns how to properly operate. It has been a joke this season with all the problems. Yes, we all do want a safe and family friendly atmosphere. And this will be accomplished through properly trained security. This will also be accomplished through a properly managed facility. Up to now, it has been a joke. Maybe after we get rid of Mo we should look at getting rid of Marc. Cause we all know change is needed.

[Roogsy]

As one of the people who was there and witnessed this - I can say in all honesty the security were rude, inconsiderate, and most importantly unprofessional.

Rude - The looks that we received as a group when we told the security officer that we were waiting for a child on the field. The smirks and then comment - "so who is the real father?"! Where is it appropriate to say this? Who is the REAL father - come one, are you kidding me. When we tried to explain our situation, we again told to leave or the police would be called... So I guess MLSE and BMO want child abandonment of a minor.

Inconsiderate - A moment before the police showed up, we were again belittled by the might security of BMO. This was in form of looks and comments. When I tried to talk to the security about what and why we were waiting, they did not want to hear of it. All they wanted was us out. That is fine and all, but ask politely. Other parents were in the stands watching there children. Most parents yes were on the field, but not all. I saw some bunches of people on the east side of the bleachers who looked like they were having a great time watching their children, grandchildren, family friends, etc on the field kicking to Tony the Tiger. So why can't a (younger) father have his (younger) friends also join him and watch his son and his sons friend kick the ball. Some of us had cameras and were wanting to take pictures. Where was the consideration for us? Their was NONE! POINT BLANK - NONE...

Unprofessional - These security guards did not show any professionalism in their actions towards paying patrons of their facility. Marc and the BMO Field should be ashamed of the way this minor issue was blown out of proportion. Why did we at the end when we were still inside the gates have about 5-7 police circling around us? Why was their about 15 BMO security personal also circling around us? What were we going to do? All it would have taken was 1 person to come and politely ask us to relocate to another part of the stadium to watch. I was in New England in June and I witnessed the best stadium operations in my life. Security was polite, accommodating, and professional. BMO Field can learn a lot from Gillette Stadium, as they were a class act.

Do I intend on returning to BMO Field, yes! But this altercation has and always will leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Nothing against the team (even though their work ethic and results as of recently have not been pleasant either). I hope in the off season, the BMO Field learns how to properly operate. It has been a joke this season with all the problems. Yes, we all do want a safe and family friendly atmosphere. And this will be accomplished through properly trained security. This will also be accomplished through a properly managed facility. Up to now, it has been a joke. Maybe after we get rid of Mo we should look at getting rid of Marc. Cause we all know change is needed.

Let us know if the charges proceed or if they are dropped.

Either way, a complaint should be filed against the police and BMO Field security.

[stretchthetruth]

who's the real father? that deserves a smack in the mouth, i dont care who's mouth it comes out of. the situation at bmo is sickening as of late - namely the incident yesterday in which there was an odour of pot outside gate 3, and the 5 officers quickly picked out the 3 black gentlemen nearby. disgusting - we had our cameras ready for a little video evidence. they did their usual bullshit harassment then left with their chests puffed out. what's new... and still getting worse.

[BuSaPuNk]

I'll see what I can find out about the situation, I know one of the security guards personally. I'll see if he was around and or heard about the situation.

[college st]

man thats just horrible i had a little incident with the security
to
my buddy got two tickets in 113 and invited me so i decided to bring my canada flag on a thin wooden (legal) stick. So i get to the stadium waving the flag when security came and asked me to take the flag of the pole in a rude way.
so i asked why i would have to take it off since we were in the south end he told me to shut my mouth and give the flag or i had to leave so my friend got all mad along with the rest of 113 saying this is a supporters section so i had to give my pole. 5 minutes later they come with their manager saying they made a mistake about having a pole...
they need to have more professional security

[Roogsy]

man thats just horrible i had a little incident with the security
to
my buddy got two tickets in 113 and invited me so i decided to bring my canada flag on a thin wooden (legal) stick. So i get to the stadium waving the flag when security came and asked me to take the flag of the pole in a rude way.
so i asked why i would have to take it off since we were in the south end he told me to shut my mouth and give the flag or i had to leave so my friend got all mad along with the rest of 113 saying this is a supporters section so i had to give my pole. 5 minutes later they come with their manager saying they made a mistake about having a pole...
they need to have more professional security

Security in general seemed extra bitchy yesterday.

Did they have a staff meeting and decide that there wasn't enough douchebaggery or something?

[Valentine]

I would have f'ckin lost it... are you kidding me? someone saying that to me?


All the security personal had to say was could the father of the child stay and the others go. The security guy decided to try and succeed at getting us going.

The response I made back to the security guy when he said that was, "we have not been on Maury Povich to get the results yet!"

[Chevy]

^^

My guess is that their superior(s) tore a strip off them after the Columbus match for 1) No catching anybody throwing shit on the pitch, and 2) for letting the Crew fans exit into a group of TFC supporters. I'm sure SOMEBODY cares about security at BMO and their minions responded by being extra "vigliant".

[Roogsy]

^^

My guess is that their superior(s) tore a strip off them after the Columbus match for 1) No catching anybody throwing shit on the pitch, and 2) for letting the Crew fans exit into a group of TFC supporters. I'm sure SOMEBODY cares about security at BMO and their minions responded by being extra "vigliant".

^That would make some sense...except they went about it all wrong.

The answer wasn't to be assholes. How about not making stupid mistakes? Letting out the Columbus fans: stupid. Not catching anyone throwing beer: lazy.

Giving somebody grief because they are waiting for the kids: still stupid. Giving somebody grief because their beer looks "strange": still stupid.

[Roogsy]

Then I suggest you report his post and the mods will discuss whether it is deserving of a card. If nobody complains...he is entitled to his opinion. if somebody finds it offensive then we will take action. In the meantime...we aren't going to let a thread degenerate so my post to you stands. Thanks.

[Vep]

Hey man...i also look young...and experienced something similar to you.

I am 24 ( i look much younger because i am really handsome )

I was in section 112 when i was watching Montreal vs TFC. It was my first time there. So i went and purchased beer. As i approached to go into my section...the security guard asked me to show him ID. I told him...i have already been asked for ID...he told me ..that he needed to see it. So i say okay...i pop out my wallet...and give him my wallet. (keep in mind i am holding a beer). He says... "SIR TAKE IT OUT OF THE WALLET". "I HAVE TO DO THIS". I give my girlfriend my beer...and take out the License...he tells me to take off my sunglasses...i said ok..THEN..says take off the hat...so i say...Are you kidding me. THEN...he looks at my license and says... and makes a comment to the people around him... "Can you believe it...this guy is almost as old as i am". I take the license out of his hands and walk back to my seat.

Not sure if anyone knows the security guard...he is the LOSER with a goatee.

Anyways...the only good thing about that whole incident and why i actually felt okay about it all afterwords. Is ...later on...he comes back to my seat...with someone else. Tells me he is sorry for the way he treated me and shook my hand.

I am assuming the person who was with him...told him he has to. Or someone saw the incident and complained. Either way. BMO security think they're hot shots. They really are underpaid losers who can't get a real job.

[RedRum]

Hearing of this incident makes me ill. Even worse, Marc and Paul read these threads but will avoid commenting, even to apologize and promise investigation like any decent human being would do.

Shame.

[wzhxvy]

Hey man...i also look young...and experienced something similar to you.

I am 24 ( i look much younger because i am really handsome )

.

Sorry you lost me at really handsome...

But on a serious note, it appears that security is outsourced to a third party, so their is no continuity or accountability. So combined with the other factors I mentioned in my earlier post, this must also be a contributing factor.

[Roogsy]

I think we need some flags and some songs addressing the problems with security.

[Pyeddo]

I think we need some flags and some songs addressing the problems with security.


DEFINITELY what the situation needs. lol

[Roogsy]

DEFINITELY what the situation needs. lol

Well...I am not gonna suggest rushing the security. What do YOU suggest we do?

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

We have lawyers...
AMBULANCE CHASERS UNION, LOCAL 416 – Reporting for duty.


I told him again I was not going to leave my son and his friend alone in the stadium, and I continued to watch my son from the stands. The security guard got on the radio and called in the police. two officers walked into the stands and confronted me and asked me to leave. I looked down at the security guard and yelled out at him "do you have a problem with the fact that I do not look like a typical father? that I am young and my friends beside me are black?,look at all the other parents watching there kids, why don't you harass them?" the officer asked one more time to leave, so we did. as I was leaving I looked back at the security guard, he looked back at me and gave one big smirk, I was outraged at the time so I spit at the ground in front of me in disgust of his actions. I walked through the 113 tunnel and was ready to leave the stadium, I was approached by an officer, and was told that I was being charged for assault for spitting gum at the security guard. I could not believe what I was hearing!, I told the officer that I don't even remember the last time I had chewed a piece of gum? I waited down by 113 an officer stood guard beside me while other officers where taking a statement from the security guard. by that time my son walked off the field and was told to go with my friends because I was being arrested

Rude - The looks that we received as a group when we told the security officer that we were waiting for a child on the field. The smirks and then comment – "so who is the real father?"!
Sounds like any ugly combination of illegal activity by our beloved local football club, Toronto FC. Let’s see: Human Rights Code violation (Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is gonna hate that) + uttering false statements (1 count) + obstruct peace officer (1 count) = FALSE ARREST


Yes I have a few witnesses
= FALSE ARREST + WITNESSES = KA-CHING!


As one of the people who was there and witnessed this …
= KA-CHING! KA-CHING! KA-CHING! JACKPOT!

Seriously, though, if you don’t already have a lawyer, let me know. I know some great criminal lawyers.

I doubt you’ll need one, though. By tomorrow morning (afternoon at the latest), your situation will have made its way onto the desk of someone at MLSE who has at least half a brain (i.e. not the security personnel). The charges should be dropped quickly, because the alternative is a brutal PR nightmare for TFC/MLSE/OTPP.

If, by some chance, Tuesday morning arrives and TFC hasn’t come crawling to you offering to suck your dick, you should contact a criminal lawyer. He or she will help you start to get witness statements notarized, etc. and within a day or two should be able to (figuratively) plug in a giant fan across the street from MLSE’s head office and dump a few piles of shit in front of it.

I have given up all hope of having disciplined paid-duty police at BMO. The whole paid-duty thing is a long-standing protection racket: the police are allowed to dictate how many paid-duty personnel need to be hired for each game, and TFC has no choice but to hire them and pay them whatever they ask for. The police complaints process is still a joke. And any member of the Toronto Police Services Board who has ever tried to stand up to the police has been harassed into quitting.

The only chance we have is to twist MLSE’s arm into better-educating and monitoring its security personnel. Luckily, paid-duty police are among the laziest “human” creatures alive. If security were to do its job with even marginal adequacy, we wouldn’t even notice the paid-duty cops.

[Roogsy]

^Love having you on board Vox. :D

[Steve-Tor]

I now know what Royalty must feel like when they go to a game. I've never felt so protected during a game before.

Yet they doing nothing when something happens.

It's become a joke now.

Pick on a guy waiting on his kid but let dumb pricks hurl full beers and waters onto the field.

Pathetic really.

[karlosarmenta]

Hey all, thanks for the support, I will keep you all informed of what comes out of this. As for Valentine, thanks for the write up. unfortunatly I was told that I cant be on the CNE grounds until this is all resolved, they have me going to court on nov 4th. I hope that someone comes to there senses and drops the charges. I have travelled from Los angeles, Columbus, D.C, and Charleston for pre season and back with my son supporting this franchise, and for them to let me down like this would be ashame.

[guelphguy1965]

I took my son down the field to take a shot also. We waited inline,got on the field,son took shot,had autograph of Jared Smith, then left with no problems. At no point did anybody say we as parents( wife was with me ) are not supposed to go in the stands to watch our kids do their thing. I just assumed that we are supposed to go on the field with our son and then leave right after he did his thing. I can understand someone wanting to go in the stand to take better pictures or just watch but I don't understand why we were not informed that we are not supposed to be in the stands. People who were in charge of this event were very young and disorganized for sure. This is classic case of bad communication and organization from events people. Why couldn't security or cops explain that we are not allowed to be in the stands for this event for some reason and other then move on.

Not sure if my comments make thing worse or better but I have to say something.

[Jack]

Thread has been cleaned up.

Let's keep this civil and allow TFC the chance to respond.

[Parkdale]

...and Charleston for pre season and back with my son supporting this franchise, and for them to let me down like this would be ashame.


whoa. I just put 2 and 2 together and figured out who you are. That's absolutely unbelievable that security would treat anyone like that, and it's makes me even more upset because I know you in real life.

[TFC*FAN]

As much as there are 3 sides to every story, it is a true shame that your day ended like it did. It seems that there were many opportunities for the issue be resolved in a civil manner by security.

If things happened as you say they did, I wouldn't be too worried about anything coming of the charges.

Best of luck.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

That is really sad... The couple officers I came in contact with before and after the match seemed ok, they said they thought the RPB were doing a great thing. Unfortunately you get some security guards and cops who only do what they do because they like pushing people around and hitting people. These guys who treated you the way they did behaved in a worse manner than I've ever seen a TFC supporter behave in. If they don't drop the charges before your trial date, we should blow this thing up and make a massive uproar out of it. We haven't done anything to deserve our members being treated this way.

[SLBuu]

^^ agreed, get in contact with news sources. I'm sure they'll love putting this in print. I could see the headlines now!

T.O. POLICE ARREST FATHER WHILE CHILD KICKS IT WITH TONY THE TIGER

[Mikey]

As one of the people who was there and witnessed this - I can say in all honesty the security were rude, inconsiderate, and most importantly unprofessional.

Rude - The looks that we received as a group when we told the security officer that we were waiting for a child on the field. The smirks and then comment - "so who is the real father?"! Where is it appropriate to say this? Who is the REAL father - come one, are you kidding me. When we tried to explain our situation, we again told to leave or the police would be called... So I guess MLSE and BMO want child abandonment of a minor.

Inconsiderate - A moment before the police showed up, we were again belittled by the might security of BMO. This was in form of looks and comments. When I tried to talk to the security about what and why we were waiting, they did not want to hear of it. All they wanted was us out. That is fine and all, but ask politely. Other parents were in the stands watching there children. Most parents yes were on the field, but not all. I saw some bunches of people on the east side of the bleachers who looked like they were having a great time watching their children, grandchildren, family friends, etc on the field kicking to Tony the Tiger. So why can't a (younger) father have his (younger) friends also join him and watch his son and his sons friend kick the ball. Some of us had cameras and were wanting to take pictures. Where was the consideration for us? Their was NONE! POINT BLANK - NONE...

Unprofessional - These security guards did not show any professionalism in their actions towards paying patrons of their facility. Marc and the BMO Field should be ashamed of the way this minor issue was blown out of proportion. Why did we at the end when we were still inside the gates have about 5-7 police circling around us? Why was their about 15 BMO security personal also circling around us? What were we going to do? All it would have taken was 1 person to come and politely ask us to relocate to another part of the stadium to watch. I was in New England in June and I witnessed the best stadium operations in my life. Security was polite, accommodating, and professional. BMO Field can learn a lot from Gillette Stadium, as they were a class act.

Do I intend on returning to BMO Field, yes! But this altercation has and always will leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Nothing against the team (even though their work ethic and results as of recently have not been pleasant either). I hope in the off season, the BMO Field learns how to properly operate. It has been a joke this season with all the problems. Yes, we all do want a safe and family friendly atmosphere. And this will be accomplished through properly trained security. This will also be accomplished through a properly managed facility. Up to now, it has been a joke. Maybe after we get rid of Mo we should look at getting rid of Marc. Cause we all know change is needed.

Get a lawyer NOW!
go after the management of BMO field.

[Carts]

Although this incident is unacceptable and should be looked into - let's be mindfull not to paint every security guard with a bad brush...

Just as we hate being called Hooligans because one fight breaks out - I'm sure the security staff doesn't like being painted with a bad brush because some of them are unprofessional...

Case in point - I got the boot from 112 last game for a few mins last game. I was standing in the aisle, and when the security guard came over, I couldn't for the life of me find my ticket - and he said my media pass was not good for that area... He respected my wishes that I/he not talk or move during both anthems, and then I headed out...

Minutes later, thanks to a generous RPB who had an un-used extra ticket, I was back in and spoke with the guard - he's like "sorry man, but they're cracking down"... I said "...no worries, you're just doing your job..." We shook hands and it was over - he was polite and professional - and I was polite in return... We even said goodbye's after the match...

Yes there are some bad seeds - but not all of them are.

If we paint them all with a bad brush, we'll be acting confrontational - which is just the way we don't want them to act...

Yes, as I said, what happened to start this thread is completely unacceptable and should be dealt with (especially since a childs safety is involved), but let's not paint them all with the same brush - that'll cause more problems than solve anything...

Carts...

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

^ I agree with that as well, all of the security guards and police officers I've dealt with at BMO have been helpful and friendly... it's really just a case of a few guys being idiots.

[KdotOdot]

Look.

Once you put on a uniform you're no longer a person. You're a symbol. So you represt that symbol and all it stands for and you accept all of opinions associated with that symbol.

I'm sure there are cops and security dudes that are cool as shit off the clock. But once they put on that uniform they cease to be human.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Do you cease to be human when you put on your RPB scarf and step into the stadium?

[eustacchio]

absolutely infuriating. I don't know what else to say.

[Fort York Redcoat]

They are symbols but you can only deal with them one symbol at a time (mostly) so I let them prove their worth of that symbol.

[mlsintoronto]

I can't explain this. I've traded emails with the writer and will dig into this early. I tend to agree with Carts but I don't know for sure...it seems like an overzealous security guy taking things too far. Of course the other side of the story needs to be heard. But assuming it went down as described...I'm beside myself. not defencible at all.

So for what its worth please understand that this is not being taken lightly. I just hate that I only hear about this shit after the fact...I never seem to witness it (people tend to be on their best behaviour when they know I'm around).

[Azerban]

Although this incident is unacceptable and should be looked into - let's be mindfull not to paint every security guard with a bad brush...

Just as we hate being called Hooligans because one fight breaks out - I'm sure the security staff doesn't like being painted with a bad brush because some of them are unprofessional...

Boo fucking hoo. They're supposed to be professionals, or at least adhere to an absolute minimum of competency since they're being paid. We're not. You can't even compare the two.

Sometimes I wonder what kind of person makes a career out of being a security guard. It's like they want the power trip that goes along with the uniform, but are either too dumb, fat, or clumsy to be trusted with anything bigger than a flashlight.

[Parkdale]

(people tend to be on their best behaviour when they know I'm around).

clearly, you're not talking about me.

[flatpicker]

I can't explain this. I've traded emails with the writer and will dig into this early. I tend to agree with Carts but I don't know for sure...it seems like an overzealous security guy taking things too far. Of course the other side of the story needs to be heard. But assuming it went down as described...I'm beside myself. not defencible at all.

So for what its worth please understand that this is not being taken lightly. I just hate that I only hear about this shit after the fact...I never seem to witness it (people tend to be on their best behaviour when they know I'm around).


Glad to hear you are trying to sort this out.
It's definitely not the kind of reputation MLSE needs.

[KdotOdot]

Do you cease to be human when you put on your RPB scarf and step into the stadium?


did you read what you wrote?

think about it then ask the question again.

[DOMIN8R]

Thank you, Paul. As always, some of us appreciate you taking the time to weigh in.

Also, it would be irrational (common place for some on this board) to assume that all security and police are the same. As it would be to label supporters, RPBs, etc. to all be cut of the same cloth. I have received some outstanding customer service from security at BMO field. However, as a father, this story is very troubling. I can't help but think what I would do if it had happened to me.

[RedRum]

I can't explain this. I've traded emails with the writer and will dig into this early. I tend to agree with Carts but I don't know for sure...it seems like an overzealous security guy taking things too far. Of course the other side of the story needs to be heard. But assuming it went down as described...I'm beside myself. not defencible at all.

So for what its worth please understand that this is not being taken lightly. I just hate that I only hear about this shit after the fact...I never seem to witness it (people tend to be on their best behaviour when they know I'm around).

I apologize for assuming you would not respond in this thread. I stand corrected. Thanks for looking into this.

[Brooker]

I can't explain this. I've traded emails with the writer and will dig into this early. I tend to agree with Carts but I don't know for sure...it seems like an overzealous security guy taking things too far. Of course the other side of the story needs to be heard. But assuming it went down as described...I'm beside myself. not defencible at all.

So for what its worth please understand that this is not being taken lightly. I just hate that I only hear about this shit after the fact...I never seem to witness it (people tend to be on their best behaviour when they know I'm around).

haven't heard that one before.

i'll bet any ammount of money that this shit will continue to happen until a few people have finally had enough and something serious happens.

nobody is running this show. it's a disgrace.

i know paul actually gives a shit but he's pretty much the only one who does. i don't see things changing any time soon.


I apologize for assuming you would not respond in this thread. I stand corrected. Thanks for looking into this.

and i'm sure we'll get the solutions we're looking for.

pfft.

[NateDoGG]

DO THEY NOT HAVE CCTV AT BMO YET??? WTF ARE THEY WAITING FOR!!!!!
this is bullfuck.

[Parkdale]

DO THEY NOT HAVE CCTV AT BMO YET??? WTF ARE THEY WAITING FOR!!!!!
this is bullfuck.


CCTV could actually benefit us in this kind of situation.
just like when you hear 'this phone call may be monitored to ensure your satisfaction...'.

[Mikey]

It would help if the security guys had names or at least numbers on their uniforms so we can identify them.

I spent ten minutes demanding to know a security guards name so I could make a complaint during the last game I was at, and he just refused to give it and walked off.

Maybe cell phone cameras need to be kept handy for the purpose of getting an ID shot?

[Parkdale]

Maybe cell phone cameras need to be kept handy for the purpose of getting an ID shot?


hell yeah.

If some security guard refuses to give you his name, take a photo.
After all, we give up all rights to our photographic privacy while at the game
(it's on the back of the ticket) so why should they get extra protection?

[Valentine]

hell yeah.

If some security guard refuses to give you his name, take a photo.
After all, we give up all rights to our photographic privacy while at the game
(it's on the back of the ticket) so why should they get extra protection?

When the police were forcing us out of 113 (threatening me with charges of trespassing and/or not obey an order of a police officer) I was trying to take a picture just for record of who the security guy was for future use. And I was told to keep walking and not to stop by one of the officers. I wish now I would of had some pictures of this, I was waiting for the kids (Karlosarmenta's son and his son's best friend) to get up to kick. Think this was meant to be a great way to end a fun day at the stadium! Having the kids go on the field and get to kick the ball.

As it has now been a couple of days since this occurred and I feel as though since we were younger gentlemen (ages 31-34) we were treated negatively. I am sure if we were adults in our mid-40's we would not have had this sort of problem. I am sure instead of the police having to rush into 113, a regular security officer would have casually walked up and talked to us with RESPECT and asked us to relocate to another part of the stadium to watch the kids.

This sort of issue does bother me even more than others and not only because this happened to a friend. I am a teacher in Ontario. As we all know this team and other Toronto teams are partially owned by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan. And when something negative occurs, it goes against something that I am invested in not only as a fan but also as someone who has financial stakes in the organization. But with this situation it is me being supportive of a friend.

As I did state on the NEE boards - in the off season their need to be changes in operation at the BMO Field. They need to properly train the security staff that they employ. I think after this and other incidents I have read about in the past couple of days - communication training is essential. Also some reinforcement on how to talk to people with respect would be a step in the right direction! I worked when I was younger at Canada's Wonderland in Kingswood Music Theatre for one summer. And we spent a few days (not hours, but days) on training in situations with people (good and bad). We learned how to be effective communicators while also being able to control the situation. The security at BMO are about the same demographic as what worked at Kingswoods. And yes we did have some situations that did get out of hand and required the police to become involved. But the situation that occurred on Saturday could have easily been avoided!

And some people have commented what my next steps are going to be with this. Well that is simple, I am supporting my friend. And going to be there as will the other guys who were witnesses on Saturday. Hopefully the charges are dropped. I am not counting on an apology. This is my friends situation, and hopefully everything gets settled in a matter where we are all happy. It is sad that my friend wanted to just watch his son and his son's best friend kick the ball and we end up with this mess.

[BuSaPuNk]

haven't heard that one before.

i'll bet any ammount of money that this shit will continue to happen until a few people have finally had enough and something serious happens.

nobody is running this show. it's a disgrace.

i know paul actually gives a shit but he's pretty much the only one who does. i don't see things changing any time soon.



and i'm sure we'll get the solutions we're looking for.

pfft.

I completely agree I know one of the security guards at BMO and he knew nothing about the situation because apparently the radios wern't working. He said that it is just there job to get the people out of the building as soon as possible after the game, which is totally fine. He did say though that half of the guys there are completely unprofessional and don't really care about doing there job properly. So take from that what you will. Either way hopefully they can address this situation and get this ship sailing not sinking.

[J .]

I highly doubt anything substantial will be done to resolve this situation or future situations and I highly doubt my post should have been deleted. Garbage.

They want us to point out who throws beer, they should point out the security guards who are dicks and the cops as well.

Anyway, we deserve the same as Barra Brava...to control our sections. Get the goons in yellow out of there.

[koryo]

I addressed it after game 2 last year. I suggested things will only get worse and Marc, Paul and Cesar have ignored the concerns. They suggested they would help, but Marc has dropped the ball in a very large way. Something extremely serious will happen and the clubs will get blamed. I also fielded this on RPL, and again no one has listened.

Not everything is about how right you think you are.

[H Bomb]

Not everything is about how right you think you are.

Nono Jon didn't you realize they are? I mean what else could there be. I heard Pat was talking about this very thing 4 years ago before any of us brought it up :rolleyes:

[Cambridge_Red]

I think Marc is being used as a scapegoat here. As much as I am appalled at the treament on numerous occasions by my brothers from RPB/USECTOR etc we must remember the pressure the league has put on BMO operations in shed of the recent "hooligan" BS our own media has created. It seems like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and it really angers me to hear stories like this. I think the days of a fan friendly environment are in jeopardy with the amount of bad media this team receives. Just my thoughts take em or leave em

[NateDoGG]

bmo field sucks, all i hear is bad things about it, i mean our fans are top quality. and bmo ppl treat them like shit.

[Captain Croatia]

Security is retarded most places. One of my two times in 112, a security guard was at the bottom and i was probably 2nd or 3rd last rwo, and another fan bought 2 beers, so he asked me to hold it for him. Im 16 so im underage, but this garud went completely out of his way to ask me for ID. Im holding it for another guy and they're making a big fucking fuss out of it.

Fuck the Police!(or Security in this case) LOL

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Problem is CC there are a number of under age drinkers at BMO that will cost TFC and their supporters the priviledge of serving drink. It is only a matter of time before the LCBO shut things down. Trust me it's going to happen but people don't seem to get it. And when it does...they'll blame someone of than themselves.

Look, I have been witness to numerous people at BMO acting like complete idioits. I'm not citing this particular case (because I wasn't there) but we have a large portion of imature supporters who act like total fools towards police, security, BMO staff and most importantly fellow supporters! Have I witnessed police and security acting over the top? Yes! Have I seen TFC supporters acting like assholes? Yes! So where are we?

Hopefully the parties in this case (specifically karlosamentra) can express their stories and a correct resolution can be ironed out.

Respect.

[The Kingpin]

Not everything is about how right you think you are.

“I am for truth, no matter who tells it. I am for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I am a human being first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” - Malcolm X

Some are passengers and some are not.

[Cambridge_Red]

so anyways........

[Toronto_Bhoy]

“I am for truth, no matter who tells it. I am for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I am a human being first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” - Malcolm X

Some are passengers and some are not.

And during the games you've attended this season, how have you found the police/security at BMO? Have you been treated unfairly this season...let's say compared to game 2 of last season?

[The Kingpin]

And during the games you've attended this season, how have you found the police/security at BMO? Have you been treated unfairly this season...let's say compared to game 2 of last season?


As you probably know I have not been as I'm in England. But I imagine that is your point. I just detest that these things are happening regularly, and I'm in regular contact with individuals who attend every game and give detailed accounts of issues that are never raised here. I shouldn't be your core focus, whether you like me or not. As has been mentioned the club has been made excessively aware that this is a problem and they have not been able to contain the situation. The reason for me bringing up that it has been discussed since game two last year is to show how long it has taken to solve the problem with very little improvement.

By your logic, this means I shouldn't be able to vote in the upcoming election because I'm not in the country. Though I understand proximity is a factor, you must understand that I've attended enough games to see how the problem arises. I'm by no means a violent person thus I generally do not get entangled in such issues, but it really has concerned me that someone will get seriously hurt. To be chastised for that concern is a little bothersome.

I know how others view me, but I think we all know that won't stop me from being who I am. I really take pride in RPB and will continue to do so, I may have polarising opinions, but at least I have opinions. I say we stay on topic and I'll walk away, I have made my points and will stick to the fact that this will get worse before it gets better if something is not done quickly.

Cheers. Patrick

[Valentine]

I think Marc is being used as a scapegoat here. As much as I am appalled at the treament on numerous occasions by my brothers from RPB/USECTOR etc we must remember the pressure the league has put on BMO operations in shed of the recent "hooligan" BS our own media has created. It seems like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and it really angers me to hear stories like this. I think the days of a fan friendly environment are in jeopardy with the amount of bad media this team receives. Just my thoughts take em or leave em

It is not that I am trying to make someone a scapegoat. It is rather I am saying look at who is accountable for the actions of their staff. Marc is responsible for the state of security at BMO, correct??? Also why is it posted that half the radios were not working after the game on Saturday!!?? Unacceptable. Where is the concern towards safety?

As for the bad headlines that have been posted in the Toronto media - let me say this, some fans at BMO take it overboard! We all know this, and most likely experianced this one time or another while at a game. It is not limited to one section. And this is something that BMO and MLSE have addressed with the supporter groups. And as a proud fan, and I am glad that they are taking the steps forward to make a change and have BMO become a safe, family friendly atmosphere. But that goes back to the key point of what happened - it was my friends child and best friend who wanted to go kick a ball on the field to Tony the Tiger! A child being able participate in something that is meant to enhance the 'family' aspect of the team and stadium <-- of which I am a huge fan of and think it is great.

[J .]

cops almost broke my arm, why cause i jump up and down, hoot and holler, etc? cause i wear a bandanna over my face cause i dont want to be on tv?

this guy gets embarrassed and treated like shit...cause he wanted to watch his son on the field?

How many more times does shit like this have to happen. A fight breaks out and there are almost as many cops as there are people who actually will chant for the whole match.

so many times these events occur...so lets wait until one of us gets their head mashed into the ground by the cops... oh wait too late.

and newsflash, people like going to tfc games because it isnt a family atmosphere. why on earth does everything have to be for little kids. Take them somewhere else. Dont bring them into the south end. Its for adults and supporters, or at least that is how it is billed. that is the selling point. Adult fun. Drinking, times with the boys, supporting the club. That is what it should be about and most of the people who I see at the games getting into it enjoy two of those three. The rest stand around mouths shut and take away from it all.

Hello everyone, people go for the atmosphere. If you think people will fill bmo to watch quality football you are all insane. The product on the field is sub par to say the least, so I doubt they are getting into what is happenining on the field.

so pick up a beer, get drunk and chant your face off at least while you can. Soon the family brigade will have us in our seats stuffing our mouths full of popcorn while being viewed on cctv.

[Valentine]

^^^^^

I agree that the South End should be marketed as more of an adult area. The language is not always appropriate. And with everyone standing it is difficult for some of the adults to get a view of the field, not only children! And some of the celebrations with people jumping up and down, it is only a matter of time until a child gets hit over by accident and is severely injured. I have a friend that sits in section 106 with her 7 yr old nephew. They sit and watch the game and stand when needed. They love it and really enjoy the game. They are in a family atmosphere that accommodates to their need at the game.

But it is essential for future success of this team that children are involved and active. They are the next generation. I do not see Toronto FC as a 10 year team. I see Toronto FC as a team for the long haul. I really want to see them as the main Toronto team in the spring and summer - over the Jays and Argos. We need to engage the children and youth to want to also be at BMO. We need to have their parents want to bring them, knowing it is a safe environment. As for people getting drunk, their is getting drunk and having a fun time. But their is also getting drunk and being stupid! And if people are the second then they should be dealt with appropriately. You can still go to the game and drink your over priced beer and have fun, but all in moderation! At least be able to remember what happened the next day.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

As you probably know I have not been as I'm in England. But I imagine that is your point. I just detest that these things are happening regularly, and I'm in regular contact with individuals who attend every game and give detailed accounts of issues that are never raised here. I shouldn't be your core focus, whether you like me or not. As has been mentioned the club has been made excessively aware that this is a problem and they have not been able to contain the situation. The reason for me bringing up that it has been discussed since game two last year is to show how long it has taken to solve the problem with very little improvement.

By your logic, this means I shouldn't be able to vote in the upcoming election because I'm not in the country. Though I understand proximity is a factor, you must understand that I've attended enough games to see how the problem arises. I'm by no means a violent person thus I generally do not get entangled in such issues, but it really has concerned me that someone will get seriously hurt. To be chastised for that concern is a little bothersome.

I know how others view me, but I think we all know that won't stop me from being who I am. I really take pride in RPB and will continue to do so, I may have polarising opinions, but at least I have opinions. I say we stay on topic and I'll walk away, I have made my points and will stick to the fact that this will get worst before it gets better if something is not done quickly.

Cheers. Patrick

I too detest these types of stories but as someone who actually attends these games I also see the other side and make decisions based on a cross section of information...what I see and not just what I read on messageboards or what my friends are telling me. But that's just me...I totally respect your right to base your opinion on what ever means you see fit...that's up to you.

You can use your right to vote, as you wish in the up coming election, regardless of proximity but I'm going to guess you'd use that right based on "a cross section" of data, not just what you read on messageboards and what your pal's say (God I hope so, I don't know you but you seem to be a far too intelligent guy not to).

But for the record, I'm not chastising you, I'm just saying that I have witnessed a percentage of our support acting out of order and if you attended a game with me I could point it out to you. And you may well say, Brian, I think that's perfectly accessable behaviour...and I'd say, Patrick, your entitled to your opinion. But please...don't play the victim..."People don't like me..."

In order to seek the truth, you have to see it...and if you actually look, you will see it.

[Nodoubtguy]

^^^^^

I agree that the South End should be marketed as more of an adult area. The language is not always appropriate. And with everyone standing it is difficult for some of the adults to get a view of the field, not only children! And some of the celebrations with people jumping up and down, it is only a matter of time until a child gets hit over by accident and is severely injured. I have a friend that sits in section 106 with her 7 yr old nephew. They sit and watch the game and stand when needed. They love it and really enjoy the game. They are in a family atmosphere that accommodates to their need at the game.


I hope your joking when you say "should be marketed as a adult area", because thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It's a supporters section, not a 19+ area in a all ages club!!!

[Richard D]

The security guy probably looked at the father and was thinking about Maury Povich...

vt2i0ts-uck

[stretchthetruth]

DO THEY NOT HAVE CCTV AT BMO YET??? WTF ARE THEY WAITING FOR!!!!!
this is bullfuck.

as if any of us would EVER have access to it to defend ourselves... please. they would say it was pointing the other direction, or that it was 'offline' at the time.

as far as i'm concerned, the burden should be on the professionals to act in a manner befitting their positions, and to be sure that offences are being committed before acting on them. BMO is a fortress, alright.

[Parkdale]

here's something to consider - Marc is the 'general manager' of BMO and Ricoh. Sure in the end, it all comes down to him, but there are many levels separating him from the security guards who are making these mistakes. Sure Steve Jobs is in charge of Apple, but it his fault that Final Cut Pro can't play well with my miniDV camera? nope.

I'm just speculating here, but the chain is probably like this:

Marc - GM of BMO
head of Security
manager of the security company
section supervisiors
general security.

see the levels of division there? To use another bad comparison, blaming Marc for the actions of a general security guard would be like blaming Ronald McDonald because a fry cook oversalted your fries.

[Barbarez]

Marc How About You Hire Competent Security People Instead Of Manic Depressive, Power Hungry Lunatics????

[Parkdale]

Marc How About You Hire Competent Security People Instead Of Manic Depressive, Power Hungry Lunatics????

again... marc probably doesn't hire individuals.
He has a contract with the security company,
and they do the staffing. Does the CEO of a
company do the hiring? No, it's usually HR.

[Barbarez]

So the head of security doesn't screen people working for him?
hmmmmmmm fuck off

[olegunnar]

here's something to consider - Marc is the 'general manager' of BMO and Ricoh. Sure in the end, it all comes down to him, but there are many levels separating him from the security guards who are making these mistakes. Sure Steve Jobs is in charge of Apple, but it his fault that Final Cut Pro can't play well with my miniDV camera? nope.

I'm just speculating here, but the chain is probably like this:

Marc - GM of BMO
head of Security
manager of the security company
section supervisiors
general security.

see the levels of division there? To use another bad comparison, blaming Marc for the actions of a general security guard would be like blaming Ronald McDonald because a fry cook oversalted your fries.

I see what you're getting at but I don't think it's a fair assessment/characterization of management.

If my department which I manage is under performing I'm asked why and depending on the situation and how high word of it's gone up the chain, there's a trickle down effect. The board asks the Prez, the prez asks my boss, my boss asks me.

To take your example of the managemet structure at BMO.

From the top down there's an expectation that they put the best people in in place and an expectation that those people are managed in a way that ensures they do the best possible job.

If there's a general security issue...the level above needs to address it, the manager of the security company needs to ensure that his supervisors are doing a good job, the head of security is responisble for his/her spending decisions when it comes to outsourcing security, and Marc is responsible for all of it.

Just because there's an element of delegation doesn't mean there's no responsibility.

Also I think it's disrespectful to the law abiding customers at BMO field that have been treated so poorly to equate their mistreatment with having too much salt on your fries.

[olegunnar]

again... marc probably doesn't hire individuals.
He has a contract with the security company,
and they do the staffing. Does the CEO of a
company do the hiring? No, it's usually HR.

Well then the head of security that has contracted the outside security has done a bad job.
Who is his/her manager? You know, the person that is responsible for the performance of his direct reports. That's right BMO field.

[Parkdale]

So the head of security doesn't screen people working for him?
hmmmmmmm fuck off


marc isn't the head of security. there's a guy under marc who is.


as for the 'salty fries' comment, it's clearly a joke about how people fail to see the levels of management, not playing down the problems that are happening. These are serious problems, and people have been put in tricky situations because of it, but it's not like Marc can be in all the places at the same time.

I just dislike seeing people calling for his head when there are many levels that need to justify their calls first. The private security company is probably the first thing that needs fixing. I'm sure BMO field pays them a fee, and the walkie talkie rental is included in that cost. BMO pays them a rate, which covers things like uniforms, training and gear. If the walkie talkies aren't working, then the security firm isn't properly outfitting and preparing their staff.

[KdotOdot]

I just dislike seeing people calling for his head

Is it comfortable in the WHAAAAAMBULANCE!!

He's the Boss. If shit don't work the Boss pays. Bottom line. The Boss is responsible for those udner him. He can't just pawn off a duty and then wash his hands and say "Well we hired a company to do the work for us. If that company fucks up it ain;t my fault I just hired the fuckers"

[Parkdale]

Is it comfortable in the WHAAAAAMBULANCE!!

He's the Boss. If shit don't work the Boss pays. Bottom line. The Boss is responsible for those udner him. He can't just pawn off a duty and then wash his hands and say "Well we hired a company to do the work for us. If that company fucks up it ain;t my fault I just hired the fuckers"


yeah, I do agree that the solution involves marc (and TFC FO) getting their shit together and finding a solution to the problem.

Having said that, you must know how sometimes outside contractors are not always willing/able to do things the way their employer would like. How many times has a construction project been delayed because one of the trade unions associated with the project decided to set their own schedule? It happens all the time. Marc and his team need to get the ball rolling, but in the end, it all comes down to holding the junior guys on the floor accountable for their actions. If you're a security guard, you should have to give you name when asked. Otherwise you're just a hired thug.

[Richard D]

Imagine if they give security tasers...

"Dont tase me bro!" T-Shirts galore... in black...

[Phil]

Imagine if they give security tasers...

"Dont tase me bro!" T-Shirts galore... in black...

They could never afford that :D

[KdotOdot]

Having said that, you must know how sometimes outside contractors are not always willing/able to do things the way their employer would like. How many times has a construction project been delayed because one of the trade unions associated with the project decided to set their own schedule?

This is still the employers fault. He should have researched the company. Made clauses in the contract. Pay cuts if construction exceeds a certain period. You're talking apples and Oranges here.

This is about security it differs slightly from construction. There is no reason why BMO cannot have private security. None what so ever. It's not like you have to have any sort of academic skill to be a security officer. This would ensure the SAME security staff is present the whole season instead of the many changing faces from game to game.

So yes, I still blame Marc and his half assed approach to this issue.

[Barbarez]

This is still the employers fault. He should have researched the company. Made clauses in the contract. Pay cuts if construction exceeds a certain period. You're talking apples and Oranges here.

This is about security it differs slightly from construction. There is no reason why BMO cannot have private security. None what so ever. It's not like you have to have any sort of academic skill to be a security officer. This would ensure the SAME security staff is present the whole season instead of the many changing faces from game to game.

So yes, I still blame Marc and his half assed approach to this issue.

I don't know how you can still defend marc after this post unless you're taking it straight up the ahole from him.

[AL-MO]

I enjoyed singing this on Saturday: :)

You're wasting your time
You're wasting your tiiiimme
Go and solve a real crime
You're wasting your time

[Parkdale]

There is no reason why BMO cannot have private security.

does the ACC have a private security firm? I think the Rogers Center does, but I'm not sure about the ACC. Certainly, there's more events at the ACC and they could keep more people on staff for events.

[KdotOdot]

I have no idea if the ACC or Rogers Centre have private firms.

See I don't understand why busineses love to "Align" with competition. BMO has more of a reason to have private security then either of the 2 venues.

BMO can hire seasonaly for fucks sake. Part time Jobs I'm sure there would be a lot of interest.

[MrHawk]

I'll apply :)

[Parkdale]

BMO has more of a reason to have private security then either of the 2 venues.

BMO is small potatoes compared to both those venues in terms of overall capacity and the number of events they put on. There's 15-20 major events at BMO per year, and the ACC can have 4 games per week when the leafs and raps are both playing. Hell.... I bet the Eaton center has more/better security for christmas shoping than BMO has.

I want it to be improved as much as the next guy, but I think that has to start with holding the fuck ups accountable for their actions. My walkie talkie wasn't working is a cop out.

[Rudi]

I have no idea if the ACC or Rogers Centre have private firms.

See I don't understand why busineses love to "Align" with competition. BMO has more of a reason to have private security then either of the 2 venues.

BMO can hire seasonaly for fucks sake. Part time Jobs I'm sure there would be a lot of interest.
The problem with security in general is that it attracts a certain element of douchebag that is looking to be an authority figure but has no real prospects to be so otherwise. Obviously, this percentage is low, but it is higher in security than other jobs just because of the authority factor.

Of course, these people are going to be angels when going through the job application/training process, there's no point in going for a position of authority just to lose it before you can act like a big man, right?

That's the core problem with these low-paying, high-turnover security jobs, you'll never truly know how each individual employee is going to turn out until it's too late.

It's a shit situation, but really the security at BMO is no better or worse than other places I've been to. The difference now is that we got large, tight-knit groups that invaribly interact with security more than the average unorganized fan at, say, SkyDome would, so we hear these stories far more often than Joe Baseball Fan who only personally knows his buddy in the seat beside him rather than hundreds of people in many sections around him.

That said, these problems are just that, problems, and should be dealt with seriously. I'm just suggesting that it's far harder than simply saying "fuck Marc and BMO security, they should fire everyone". (Not aimed at you KdotOdot, but a general remark)

[H Bomb]

^^ ding ding ding we have a winner

[KdotOdot]

Rudi,

this is why BMO needs it's own security staff


The difference now is that we got large, tight-knit groups that invaribly interact with security more than the average unorganized fan at, say, SkyDome would

This is why BMO is different from the ACC or Rogers Centre. Seems like no one at BMO understands this.

[Rudi]

Rudi,

this is why BMO needs it's own security staff
Yeah. I'm not quite sure if they've outsourced their security or not, but I do know that the head of BMO security (Renny) is extremely professional and courteous.

If he's dealing with an outside security force rather than his 'own' employees, then I don't see how he can do his job properly, as he'd have no real authority over the yellow jackets.


This is why BMO is different from the ACC or Rogers Centre. Seems like no one at BMO understands this.
Yup. There needs to be a tailor-made solution for each situation.

In my own opinion, they deal with us, as groups as a whole, quite well. They meet with us frequently, keep us informed of any changes and, most importantly, solicit our comments and questions.

The real breakdown happens at the individual level, when it's one or two security people dealing with a similar number of supporters (in the groups or not). Again, that could be due to a disconnect between the top level of security and the low-level guys on foot.

[KdotOdot]

If he's dealing with an outside security force rather than his 'own' employees, then I don't see how he can do his job properly, as he'd have no real authority over the yellow jackets.

It IS an outside force. Thats why I'm losing my mind.

[Richard D]

The only way to hold them accountable for the dolts they hire is to sue them. Its a revolving door with these security companies when they get complaints, they fire these bums and hire the next guy lined up in the back looking for an $8/hour job...

[Pyeddo]

Its an outside company that's head offices are @ Dufferin & Eglington. If anyone is super intent on contact them, I can get you that info.

[stretchthetruth]

does the ACC have a private security firm? I think the Rogers Center does, but I'm not sure about the ACC. Certainly, there's more events at the ACC and they could keep more people on staff for events.

ACC has their own security, i believe - and I can state for a fact that the Dome does. HOWEVER - the Blue Jays have their own security for their games, that has nothing to do with the Rogers Centre facility security, who does stuff like the Auto Show, and concerts. When I was a few years younger, I worked at the Dome as event staff (basically security)... I quickly realized that for every power hungry douche I worked with, there was an even more power-drunk asshole boss. You'd be surprised at the level of self importance someone can assume when they get to be called "Bravo 2" over the radios...

[ultrasuede]

When the police were forcing us out of 113 (threatening me with charges of trespassing and/or not obey an order of a police officer) I was trying to take a picture just for record of who the security guy was for future use. And I was told to keep walking and not to stop by one of the officers. I wish now I would of had some pictures of this, I was waiting for the kids (Karlosarmenta's son and his son's best friend) to get up to kick. Think this was meant to be a great way to end a fun day at the stadium! Having the kids go on the field and get to kick the ball.

As it has now been a couple of days since this occurred and I feel as though since we were younger gentlemen (ages 31-34) we were treated negatively. I am sure if we were adults in our mid-40's we would not have had this sort of problem. I am sure instead of the police having to rush into 113, a regular security officer would have casually walked up and talked to us with RESPECT and asked us to relocate to another part of the stadium to watch the kids.

This sort of issue does bother me even more than others and not only because this happened to a friend. I am a teacher in Ontario. As we all know this team and other Toronto teams are partially owned by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan. And when something negative occurs, it goes against something that I am invested in not only as a fan but also as someone who has financial stakes in the organization. But with this situation it is me being supportive of a friend.

As I did state on the NEE boards - in the off season their need to be changes in operation at the BMO Field. They need to properly train the security staff that they employ. I think after this and other incidents I have read about in the past couple of days - communication training is essential. Also some reinforcement on how to talk to people with respect would be a step in the right direction! I worked when I was younger at Canada's Wonderland in Kingswood Music Theatre for one summer. And we spent a few days (not hours, but days) on training in situations with people (good and bad). We learned how to be effective communicators while also being able to control the situation. The security at BMO are about the same demographic as what worked at Kingswoods. And yes we did have some situations that did get out of hand and required the police to become involved. But the situation that occurred on Saturday could have easily been avoided!

And some people have commented what my next steps are going to be with this. Well that is simple, I am supporting my friend. And going to be there as will the other guys who were witnesses on Saturday. Hopefully the charges are dropped. I am not counting on an apology. This is my friends situation, and hopefully everything gets settled in a matter where we are all happy. It is sad that my friend wanted to just watch his son and his son's best friend kick the ball and we end up with this mess.

You would think that "a teacher" would know the difference in usage between "their" and "there".....what exactly do you teach - not english I hope. Your grammar is bad and you're sadly misguided if you think "younger" is 31/32....Maybe you and your friend should start acting as adults instead of "younger gentlemen".

[H Bomb]

You would think that "a teacher" would know the difference in usage between "their" and "there".....what exactly do you teach - not english I hope. Your grammar is bad and you're sadly misguided if you think "younger" is 31/32....Maybe you and your friend should start acting as adults instead of "younger gentlemen".

way to see the forest for the trees.

you put too many dots in your etc's...

[stretchthetruth]

You would think that "a teacher" would know the difference in usage between "their" and "there".....what exactly do you teach - not english I hope. Your grammar is bad and you're sadly misguided if you think "younger" is 31/32....Maybe you and your friend should start acting as adults instead of "younger gentlemen".

if you want to be fussy, you should have said, 'your grammar is poor' and i think you would 'act like an adult' rather than 'as' an adult - but whatever, its an online post...

the 'younger' is relative to the age of the child in question... read the thread before you post something pointless...

[Jack]

You would think that "a teacher" would know the difference in usage between "their" and "there".....what exactly do you teach - not english I hope. Your grammar is bad and you're sadly misguided if you think "younger" is 31/32....Maybe you and your friend should start acting as adults instead of "younger gentlemen".
What does this attack at his posting style have to do with the topic of this thread?

[Cambridge_Red]

You would think that "a teacher" would know the difference in usage between "their" and "there".....what exactly do you teach - not english I hope. Your grammar is bad and you're sadly misguided if you think "younger" is 31/32....Maybe you and your friend should start acting as adults instead of "younger gentlemen".


Haha I bet you're a teacher the way you handled that post. :noidea:

Libertine it's not that I think Marc isn't accountable for these actions it's just he shouldn't be solely to blame. You may want to look at our city's "finest" also. It's a very unfortunate thing to have happend, but Police/Secturity will forever be looking for someone to pick on thats just life unfortunately. As Marc said to us if you recall pre-game the other the day he can't be everywhere and mistakes do happen with still being a young team/business. Does he have too much responsibility ?? OR Is there appropriate actions set in place for security that are out of his hands??

[ultrasuede]

What does this attack at his posting style have to do with the topic of this thread?

My point was that his being a teacher is irrelevant, as are much of the side issues injected into this "conversation"....the issue has become much too broad - the guy was asked to leave, mouthed off and things got out of hand...it is really between him, the guard and the courts.

VALENTINE was right when he said that he would go and stand up for him as a friend - thats where it should end. It's amazing that it has now gone to a discussion of wether kids have a place in the stands...I guess Marc should just create a "drunknen yahoo section" and let whatever takes place there happen - Yeah, and then watch the whining when some lout gets what he deserves from another lout who is bigger and faster....where does this circular logic end?

[H Bomb]

My point was that his being a teacher is irrelevant, as are much of the side issues injected into this "conversation"....the issue has become much too broad - the guy was asked to leave, mouthed off and things got out of hand...it is really between him, the guard and the courts.

VALENTINE was right when he said that he would go and stand up for him as a friend - thats where it should end. It's amazing that it has now gone to a discussion of wether kids have a place in the stands...I guess Marc should just create a "drunknen yahoo section" and let whatever takes place there happen - Yeah, and then watch the whining when some lout gets what he deserves from another lout who is bigger and faster....where does this circular logic end?

Alright well assuming you have kids, next time you leave them somewhere nearby I'll force you out of wherever you are and lets see you act cool and composed. How the guard didn't react to "my kid's on the field, I'm not leaving" is beyond words and has no, and I mean NO, excuse. You're being bureaucratic and taking the humanity out of the situation, something that serves no purpose when dealing with humans

[Valentine]

I hope your joking when you say "should be marketed as a adult area", because thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It's a supporters section, not a 19+ area in a all ages club!!!


Ok, I just got in and read this comment... I was wondering if you actually read what I read before you wrote? When I used the term "adult" section - I was saying in reference towards the supporters sections being a place where language will NOT be as child friendly as say section 106. Supporter sections are also where the crowds are a little more aggressive than other sections in their celebrations (tifos, goals, etc...). I was not saying a sections where it is a 19+ only zone, as we already have that in the Carlsberg Patio. I was not saying in reference to a section where the Brass Rail girls will be dancing. After the July Montreal game someone made a sign "Warning the following section contains flag waving, intoxication, and mature language"!

People going into a supporters section should be aware of what the atmosphere. I do think that the south end and north end are a lot of fun for a majority of the people enter into them. But they are not for everyone! You can not expect nor do you want someone to ask for ID, but people should know that the section does have more of a mature environment. I would feel comfortable taking a 13 year old in, but I would not feel comfortable taking a 7 year old in. And if you want to take someone younger in you should be aware of the circumstances and situation they will be entering. And I also want to add is that if this is one of the most ridiculous things that you have ever heard - I feel you have lived a very sheltered life. You must not have many life experiances.

As for 'ultrasuede' correcting my grammar - thanks. Appreciate it! And to answer your question - I do not teach English (capital E buddy). I am a Physical & Health Education teacher. The reason for me writing on this message board was to inform people and explain the situation on Saturday. I was rush writing to get my point across. And yes I do know the difference between 'their' and 'there'. And sorry I am sorry if my friends and I do not classify for your definition of younger gentleman. We are well respected members of the community. This is mainly through volunteering and coaching in our local community. Who are you to criticize me about my actions?

[stretchthetruth]

My point was that his being a teacher is irrelevant, as are much of the side issues injected into this "conversation"....the issue has become much too broad - the guy was asked to leave, mouthed off and things got out of hand...it is really between him, the guard and the courts.

VALENTINE was right when he said that he would go and stand up for him as a friend - thats where it should end. It's amazing that it has now gone to a discussion of wether kids have a place in the stands...I guess Marc should just create a "drunknen yahoo section" and let whatever takes place there happen - Yeah, and then watch the whining when some lout gets what he deserves from another lout who is bigger and faster....where does this circular logic end?

please - read the thread - or read it again...

irrelevant issues? like a common grammatical error?

again, the correct answer to a question like, "who's the real father" in relation to one's own child is a shot to the chops. he wasnt simply asked to leave...

[ultrasuede]

Ok, I just got in and read this comment... I was wondering if you actually read what I read before you wrote? When I used the term "adult" section - I was saying in reference towards the supporters sections being a place where language will NOT be as child friendly as say section 106. Supporter sections are also where the crowds are a little more aggressive than other sections in their celebrations (tifos, goals, etc...). I was not saying a sections where it is a 19+ only zone, as we already have that in the Carlsberg Patio. I was not saying in reference to a section where the Brass Rail girls will be dancing. After the July Montreal game someone made a sign "Warning the following section contains flag waving, intoxication, and mature language"!

People going into a supporters section should be aware of what the atmosphere. I do think that the south end and north end are a lot of fun for a majority of the people enter into them. But they are not for everyone! You can not expect nor do you want someone to ask for ID, but people should know that the section does have more of a mature environment. I would feel comfortable taking a 13 year old in, but I would not feel comfortable taking a 7 year old in. And if you want to take someone younger in you should be aware of the circumstances and situation they will be entering. And I also want to add is that if this is one of the most ridiculous things that you have ever heard - I feel you have lived a very sheltered life. You must not have many life experiances.

As for 'ultrasuede' correcting my grammar - thanks. Appreciate it! And to answer your question - I do not teach English (capital E buddy). I am a Physical & Health Education teacher. The reason for me writing on this message board was to inform people and explain the situation on Saturday. I was rush writing to get my point across. And yes I do know the difference between 'their' and 'there'. And sorry I am sorry if my friends and I do not classify for your definition of younger gentleman. We are well respected members of the community. This is mainly through volunteering and coaching in our local community. Who are you to criticize me about my actions?

Yeah - the personal stuff was off - my apologies. I did however side with your approach to this. As you can see your issue has been hijacked by those who resent ANY interferance with anything they chose to do. I'm glad that you're staying above the "You gotta fight for your right to Party" crowd...but I stand by my assertion that 31 isn't young.:)

[ultrasuede]

please - read the thread - or read it again...

irrelevant issues? like a common grammatical error?

again, the correct answer to a question like, "who's the real father" in relation to one's own child is a shot to the chops. he wasnt simply asked to leave...

Says Who? If it is true then quietly walk away and then hit the blogs - often if you don't like something, the easiest way to get rid of it is to cover it in paper...writing a complaint is more effective than yapping your way into an arrest. Fact is - we will never know the whole truth unless we attend court. If he posts the court date we can all go and show support if its warranted.

[stretchthetruth]

Says Who? If it is true then quietly walk away and then hit the blogs - often if you don't like something, the easiest way to get rid of it is to cover it in paper...writing a complaint is more effective than yapping your way into an arrest. Fact is - we will never know the whole truth unless we attend court. If he posts the court date we can all go and show support if its warranted.

the fact of the matter is, from what he has said (no you can never know exactly what happened if you werent there yourself, but based on previous complaints/interactions with security and police at bmo, one can make an educated decision) he did not "yap" himself into an arrest... his child was on the field, and he didn't want to leave, which i would argue is a reasonable reaction. his character was attacked, and then the police fabricated evidence to use as grounds for arrest. face it, the police lie in court, and cover for each other... court testimony will be exactly what we see here - one side vs the other. who wins? a 'young' father and soccer fan (read hooligan), or "toronto's finest"? the 'whole truth' won't come out in court - its the very nature of the adversarial system.

[karlosarmenta]

with out saying to much, for now, today I had received a favourful call from the TFC office in response to my post. My matter was investigated and now with the support that I have behind me, I hope that this matter can be resolved.

[FluSH]

with out saying to much, for now, today I had received a favourful call from the TFC office in response to my post. My matter was investigated and now with the support that I have behind me, I hope that this matter can be resolved.


Excellent news...

Now... Let's keep it clean... and this goes out to everyone... I don't want this thread to become an all out slugfest between internet USERS on our forums...

thanks

[karlosarmenta]

Excellent news...

Now... Let's keep it clean... and this goes out to everyone... I don't want this thread to become an all out slugfest between internet USERS on our forums...

thanks


AGREED.

[Cambridge_Red]

Close the thread. Matters were resolved.

[FluSH]

/Dead

[FluSH]

/resurrected :eek:

I have communicated with Karlos, and he will be updating us on his situation in a new thread once he recieves further news. This is best so those individuals who have been following the case are informed of what transpired with his ordeal.

[FluSH]

/dead again