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View Full Version : Disapointing All Round......



Oblio2
09-27-2008, 05:51 PM
So, today was my first game back in a while. We had baby on July 29th and I haven't been in a while. I was shocked and surprised at how different things are.

- The fans are different. The attitude; People are grumbling-A lot. I heard of negativity, before the whistle even,about Carver;Mo, Some players etc.....Then, during the game...wow, some real yelling at players-Not encouraging but blasting.

-The Banners- The 2 Banners at the bottom of 113. One said something like "Mo Out" and the other attached to the "Capo Stand" said "Fire the Lair". Wow. Not a fan of those and not sure if the banners represent the whole fanbase. I dont like them and dont appreciate them. Peopel think the entire supporters section want Mo out....thats what it loosk like with those banners.

-The Capo stand. Wow, what a waste of time. Didn't rouse the fans...stood around...most of the time doing nothing. IF that is the person you have up there, doing that...a waste

-Singing. Terrible. Poeple weren't singing. A general lethargic attitute (on the field too). From where I sit in upper 110, watching the stadium..the singing was pathetic. 112 did ok for a bit but, for the most part...not good.

-Finally.....Seriously, the number of empty seats. There were a few in my section too...I was told that since this bad run, people are not as interested.
WTF, come on people!!!!!

Im upset at the way things are going...For Fucks Sake.....BUCK UP!!!!!

****
Edit
My wife called and I had to leave to go home for the baby just after half time so, I didn't see Deniz as Capo. That comment was about the first half

tfc_4_ever
09-27-2008, 06:09 PM
yup story of this half half of the season...

dag
09-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Announced attendance for today's match was just over 20,000...










I guess that's tickets sold, not spectators attending.

Bobo
09-27-2008, 06:25 PM
Banners never represent everyone. How many people actually trust Carver? Not me, was happy to not see it today. Negative banners aren't great to see, but its the end of a crap season, at this point might as well voice displeasure. It's not an unfair thing to do.

The supporter sections are getting very sad. By row 10 in 112 and 113, its dead. Cheering by myself is not fun at all. Maybe I should bail to the front rows like so many other people.

dupont
09-27-2008, 06:28 PM
Honestly I was happy with todays game. But seriously I'm glad there was finally some negativity. would you rather see Toronto just sit back and take it like we always do? We want a winning team for once.

tfc
09-27-2008, 06:29 PM
.... wait a minute ... aren't we supposed to be the best fans in the league? :noidea: didn't seem like it today

adamdz
09-27-2008, 07:00 PM
I heard quite a bit of negativity today in the stands from a select few. Some people just need to stay home if they hate this shit so much. 113 was also unusually quiet today throughout parts of the game. As far as supporters doing what they do, I see the same people give it their all every game, don't paint everyone with the pathetic brush.

gardooney
09-27-2008, 07:02 PM
Jesus what a bunch of fuckin whiners. Support your team or shut the fuck up. Your in or your out, no shades of gray.

Dirk Diggler
09-27-2008, 07:07 PM
So, today was my first game back in a while. We had baby on July 29th and I haven't been in a while. I was shocked and surprised at how different things are.

- The fans are different. The attitude; People are grumbling-A lot. I heard of negativity, before the whistle even,about Carver;Mo, Some players etc.....Then, during the game...wow, some real yelling at players-Not encouraging but blasting.

-The Banners- The 2 Banners at the bottom of 113. One said something like "Mo Out" and the other attached to the "Capo Stand" said "Fire the Lair". Wow. Not a fan of those and not sure if the banners represent the whole fanbase. I dont like them and dont appreciate them. Peopel think the entire supporters section want Mo out....thats what it loosk like with those banners.

-The Capo stand. Wow, what a waste of time. Didn't rouse the fans...stood around...most of the time doing nothing. IF that is the person you have up there, doing that...a waste

-Singing. Terrible. Poeple weren't singing. A general lethargic attitute (on the field too). From where I sit in upper 110, watching the stadium..the singing was pathetic. 112 did ok for a bit but, for the most part...not good.

-Finally.....Seriously, the number of empty seats. There were a few in my section too...I was told that since this bad run, people are not as interested.
WTF, come on people!!!!!

Im upset at the way things are going...For Fucks Sake.....BUCK UP!!!!!

What do you expect? No fanbase in the world will put up with the kind of crap we've had to put up with without voicing some sort of displeasure or reacting in a negative manner.

And why is anyone surprised that there were empty seats? I'm actually encouraged that there were some empty seats today. It tells you that a lot of people who go to the games actually know about the team and its piss poor form. It tells you that they don't just go to the games to get drunk and throw shit on the pitch.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-27-2008, 07:13 PM
Gotta say the negative atmosphere is a reflection of recent games. Dont think its out of order. Yes we should be positive adn obviously supporting the team is a must but i dont blame others for that at all.

THA BUTCHA
09-27-2008, 07:38 PM
Good to see you Today bud....

In regards to your comments its true the fanss are different. But It's not the fans fault, it's the teams fault for their poor form for the last 3 MONTHS.

No worries the best thing about sports is "there is always next year" I'm sure that vibe that we all know and love will return starting next season.

Bobo
09-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Jesus what a bunch of fuckin whiners. Support your team or shut the fuck up. Your in or your out, no shades of gray.

Eh Mr. Self Righteous, this a TFC or City forum? A shade of gray perhaps?

stugautz
09-27-2008, 07:48 PM
I thought the capo change at the start of the second half really livened things up.

As for bitterness of the fans, what do you expect when the team hasn't won in so many games?

gardooney
09-27-2008, 07:51 PM
Eh Mr. Self Righteous, this a TFC or City forum? A shade of gray perhaps?
Hey DODO totally missing the point yah. I support TFC and MCFC is that a prob. Can you find anyone here who is a TFC only supporter? I am just sick of the bitching and complaining that goes on after every game. Even if we win a point. Self righteous gimmee a break..... im'e a city fan.

wzhxvy
09-27-2008, 08:07 PM
With the exception of the own goal, it was a good performance today I thought. Houston is a good team, and we handled ourselves reasonably well defensively. In terms of your comments around atomosphere oblio, I agree on the attendance. I am wondering what is happening with 107/108/109 especially...where are all these people ??? We will see if it reflects in STH renewal.

In terms of the supporters section...it has become "the place to be"...like going to the Safari and being amongst the animals, so to speak. You have more watchers than doers now. People are selling rights for their Season Tickets at 5 to 8K per seat in the Supporters sections!!! They will end up like Platinum seats at Leafs/Raptors games...MLSE better put a stop to all this crap.

I think the banners reflect the frustration...it has been a tough few months. I cant speak about the Capo...seems like a lot of politics and ego at play between different sections, groups and individuals...not sure what is going on.

TFC Cityboy
09-27-2008, 08:34 PM
reasonable support today I thought considering anyone wth half a brain knows the play offs are a distant dream.
Have to say that after 6 pints I missed a large amount of the details, and a further 3 after the mach didn't help. From what I recall tho there was less of an issue with w@nkers chuckingh beers and stuff on the pitch- big improvement.
F##k I love TFC home matches and I had ro correct SO many spelling wrrors ont this post!
:)

TFC Cityboy
09-27-2008, 08:36 PM
^^shit- I missed a few! bollox to it! wah heh!

Jack
09-27-2008, 08:37 PM
I still try to get up for games, but in the first half most of the team was sluggish (Guevara was decent and Barrett was putting in an effort).

It's hard to stay up but you try. I had to dig deep today for the energy.

I support my team, no question, but not blindly. My eyes are open and I see what's happening out there. It sure felt to me that some of the guys out there have conceded the season and are playing out the string. I sing and chant out of the passion for my team, so if that passion is not aroused, it makes it tough. But I still gave it my all out there today.

Definitely better on the throwing front. I didn't see one non-streamer object on the pitch in our area of the stadium.

RPB_Brantford_08
09-27-2008, 08:39 PM
Jesus what a bunch of fuckin whiners. Support your team or shut the fuck up. Your in or your out, no shades of gray.


well said...the liar banner on the capo stand was bullshit...maybe it should read fire the capo!!! althought the second guy was much beter in the second half.


your a support if, you show up every game, win , lose or draw,

your a fan if you show up once and while on a corperate tickets.
support the team till the END...come on you reds!!!

romburgundy
09-27-2008, 09:03 PM
.... wait a minute ... aren't we supposed to be the best fans in the league? :noidea: didn't seem like it today

tfc while I appreciate your need to cling on to something that makes us special. People are people and no matter how we support this team (I live it and breathe it) We're freking dissappointed as hell and it will shine through in how we support the boys on the pitch. As for the best fans thing, that my be true but I'd be willing to bet DC could make us a close second.

In CARVER "I" trust... All others must pay cash

Marco2K
09-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of fuckin whiners. Support your team or shut the fuck up. Your in or your out, no shades of gray.


Are you kidding?

the team is in last place. And you are suprised why BMO has lost some of its lusture.

Jeff s
09-27-2008, 09:35 PM
Err was I the only one who thought the second half provided a good atmosphere? Good job Deniz!

gardooney
09-27-2008, 09:43 PM
Err was I the only one who thought the second half provided a good atmosphere? Good job Deniz!


True he grabbed the rest of em by the collars and forced em into it.
pure energy.

London
09-27-2008, 09:44 PM
Err was I the only one who thought the second half provided a good atmosphere? Good job Deniz!


i was just wondering why no one talked about denis's job today.
he did a good job and brought some energy back into the stadium!!
good job Denis!!!:cheers:

RPB_Brantford_08
09-27-2008, 09:45 PM
Are you kidding?

the team is in last place. And you are suprised why BMO has lost some of its lusture.

so what your saying is we only want bandwagon jumpers at BMO?
fairweather fans can go to the dome and watch the Jays or the acc for
the leafs,Raptors.

BritSOL
09-27-2008, 09:54 PM
It seemed noticable that even the Canadian anthem was not sung with as much enthusiasm as normal:canada:. Although I am stuck near the back of semi-dead 224.

deeznutz
09-27-2008, 09:56 PM
sorry for not coming this game...I am really sick at home trying to get better and I have court on Tuesday....

gardooney
09-27-2008, 10:03 PM
Are you kidding?

the team is in last place. And you are suprised why BMO has lost some of its lusture.

Lost no luster for me dude. Every game I get to sit and sing in the south end is an experience for me. I was in 222 for the anthems and my son begged me to move to the south end. Man if that doesn't get you into a game, well then your dead. Deniz screaming at people to chant, or Jack grabbing you by the shoulders and forcing you to jump up and down. If this isn't what your looking for then maybe you should look elsewhere. Myself I live for that shit. I think about it all week,how Carver could have done this or that. But during the game....no I just support my team.
As Oddball once said......

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

The Oz
09-27-2008, 11:25 PM
Lost no luster for me dude. Every game I get to sit and sing in the south end is an experience for me. I was in 222 for the anthems and my son begged me to move to the south end. Man if that doesn't get you into a game, well then your dead. Deniz screaming at people to chant, or Jack grabbing you by the shoulders and forcing you to jump up and down. If this isn't what your looking for then maybe you should look elsewhere. Myself I live for that shit. I think about it all week,how Carver could have done this or that. But during the game....no I just support my team.
As Oddball once said......

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Dude, I like to see that your supporting the team through thick and thin, I applaud you and everyone who goes there, but we can't be blind and say there isn't something wrong with the teams play. Just because we aren't as optimistic or as hopeful as we were at the start of the year, or being realistic doesn't make us any less of a supporter. We still watch and cheer and jump up and down but, I'd be lying if I said my hearts still in it 100% after the disappointments this year and I know many of you agree with me.

Ratven
09-28-2008, 12:29 AM
First of all. The capo is awesome, we accomplish a LOT more with the capo than without the capo, as has been evidenced in a number of games this season where we were thunderous... and the potential of the capo has not even become close to being reached as with time (and a decent support-inspiring team) the capo will really help link 114/115 with the rest of the corner.

Deniz is a dynamo, a good one, not a shite Houston one. That guy has more energy, and EVOKES more energy than anyone I've seen, and it was amazing to see him volunteer to pick up the reigns when Zak wasn't feeling up to it this game. Zak who has done a great job thus far, but is a human being who doesn't get paid, and does it out his love for the team. He is succeptible to all of the ups and downs that the rest of the supporters have, however he ALSO has the added pressure of standing up in front of a bunch of people, whom obviously at least a part are unthankful twats who just like to complain about shit. I'm very happy to have Zak, and I'm very happy to have Deniz, and I'm very happy to have anyone else up there who has a ton of energy and can motivate people.

I'm not going to get into an ideological debate about what we owe the club, or what the club owes us as supporters. But you have to be dense to not realize that it's a two way relationship between a club and its supporters. And it's not that we're shit that pisses a majority of the supporters off. If Barret makes a hundred runs and misses the net on each one, but muscles by some defenders and get a scoring chance... we're all immediately TFC!! TFC!! in support. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. With the exception of this game, the players have showed NO passion, ZERO. We cheer and scream and lose our voices after 90 minutes to try to motivate our players, when its evident that our players no longer care and have packed it in, the only reason you're cheering and screaming... and even getting ANGRY at other people for not doing the same, is because you want to keep patting yourself on the back for being "the best supporter in MLS"... and arguing on message boards about it, and telling coworkers about the great atmosphere and how flawless and faultless our team is to seek validity. We support a shit team, fine... plenty of really rowdy fans around the world support really shit teams. I watched the Stoke v. Chelsea match this morning and their fans were wicked. But the team cared, the team played hard, they were up against a behemoth of a team that we can't even imagine in the MLS, and they held on by their teeth and managed to play an exciting game of football, despite not being nearly as talented as Chelsea. The big difference is effort.

For the record I'm at every game and I yell and jump and sing for 90 minutes, and I try to encourage others to do the same... but I completely understand why some people DON'T do it anymore. I'm very curious how many people that judge support level actually come to EVERY game and actually try to muster up the energy and willpower to support this UNCARING team through 90 minutes game in and game out for the last I don't know how many games. It's easy to armchair quarterback.

So that's my vent.

Psycho-Kid
09-28-2008, 01:16 AM
to be honest with you i look on the bright side of things and a point is better then no point i also thought we did a great supporting job in section 112 today i couldnt have been happier with the support today even tho they didnt disurve it in the first half

Eastend
09-28-2008, 07:00 AM
I agree that the atmosphere was a little eerie today but blind support is for LEAFS fans. I live and breath this team but if the team sucks we need to let them know how we feel.

That is all.

Baggio2TFC
09-28-2008, 07:54 AM
.... wait a minute ... aren't we supposed to be the best fans in the league? :noidea: didn't seem like it today

When you are the best fans, you expect the players on the field to atleast play like we are the best fans. I was so dejected today watching us run around like chickens with no heads out there. Time to clean house. Time to bring in the young guys we have for the remander of the season and see what we have for next year. It is all about next year from here on in. Play the kids, even if we lose 6-0, atleast we can watch some soccer with some intensity!!!

Trying to make the playoffs...not yesterday, not all season!!!

KdotOdot
09-28-2008, 09:17 AM
There was a game on the field yesterday?

Truthfully I just went there to get drunk. Seriously with 1 home game left and no chance of playoffs, with the shit ball season we had. I don't even know why I went yesterday.

And before one of you slack jawed cock boys says anything about "Shut up and Support your club" Try saying that after being at every fucking home game since the beginning of the season and watching them fall the fuck apart week by week.

It's hard to pretend to get excited when you're absorbing all the disappointment around you.

Oh well. At least the Hammers won!!

flatpicker
09-28-2008, 09:19 AM
^ and my Bristol Rovers are crap this year too! I have nothing to cheer for!

- But there's always next year....?????

Dave67
09-28-2008, 09:36 AM
It's hard to pretend to get excited when you're absorbing all the disappointment around you.


QFT - Damn near impossible. I skipped yesterdays game and went to see the B-52s in Buffalo. It was nice to see some performers putting on an effort for the money they were being paid.

Lot's and lot's of people keep saying we are not Leaf fans and we will not become Leaf fans. It has got me thinking a lot lately about Leaf fans and what they are. I've ended up with this. Leaf fans write a blank cheque to their club every season, they show up game after game out of fear of losing their seat. After renewing my seats for next season I am left with a concern that we may become Leaf fans..

Fortunately I know we have that one critical thing Leaf fans today lack. Extreme passion and energy. We will be back in energy and volume next season, but anyone who is not numb to this high level of incompetence and bullshit we have been served for two seasons must have gone into this with no expectations. I came in with expectations, they were to win the league by season 3. Season 3 is next year - I am not feeling optimistic.

As for Oblio2 damn sorry I missed you yesterday! The fact that you have missed so many games this year points to what a great Dad you will be. Sorry the day let you down.

Cheers

Oblio2
09-28-2008, 10:23 AM
Hey Skint. No worries and thanks......I'll see you at the Chicago game?

FYI:
My wife called and I had to leave to go home for the baby just after half time so, I didn't see Deniz as Capo. That comment was about the first half

james
09-28-2008, 07:26 PM
i sang for most the game. But i must say it is hard to sing when the team never wins. Exspecially hard to sing songs like "Ole Ole" which to me are celebration songs that are usually sang when you are winning and we havent won in like 3 months!

Roogsy
09-28-2008, 07:30 PM
i sang for most the game. But i must say it is hard to sing when the team never wins. Exspecially hard to sing songs like "Ole Ole" which to me are celebration songs that are usually sang when you are winning and we havent won in like 3 months!

I dunno who began the "Ole" song but I was simply shaking my head.

james
09-28-2008, 07:31 PM
Also its common that when a team is doing as bad as TFC that fans stop comming out in full numbers. I saw last year some River Plate fans started to refuse to go watch the team play because they were playing bad. They finnished 14th in the league. They usually get full crowds of like 50,000 and they were only getting maybe half that because of there poor performance. They said they wouldn't start comming to the games again untill they played better on the field!

Oblio2
10-03-2008, 07:27 AM
-The Banners- The 2 Banners at the bottom of 113. One said something like "Mo Out" and the other attached to the "Capo Stand" said "Fire the Lair". Wow. Not a fan of those and not sure if the banners represent the whole fanbase. I dont like them and dont appreciate them. Peopel think the entire supporters section want Mo out....thats what it loosk like with those banners.



Look in todays news. They have basically said that the Red Patch Boys want Mo out, because of the sign.

OneLoveOneEric
10-03-2008, 07:42 AM
Whenever I see the capo on that tower thing all I can think of is...
http://www.worldwonderphotos.com/images/watermark/Baywatch-on-Venice-Beach-LA.jpg

Hitcho
10-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Are you kidding?

the team is in last place. And you are suprised why BMO has lost some of its lusture.

No, that's the whole fucking point!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who just turns up to cheer when things are going well or the team is top of the league is a journeyman band wagon jumper. Fair enough, if you can do that and look in the mirror (not you personally, people generally I mean) then that's your prerogative. But there are those of us that feel differently, and want to support and cheer for the team through thick or thin. If they're bottom of the league then what do you think will help more? People not turning up/ just showing up to hurl abuse OR 20,000 people showing up and giving their all to lift the guys out of a rut?

This debate will rage on and on forever. I just don't think the "supporter till I die" attitude has really caught on that widely in North America. In Europe and South America it's in the genes. But here, well there's too much namby pamby American type shit where people just want to see a winning side, otherwise they desert the team. What's the fucking point of that?!

EDIT

That's not to say you can't make your feelings known about expecting more effort from the players, better management, better handling of the club etc, but you can do that and still cheer on the boys during the game (or at least most of it). It doesn't have to be all glory and singing or all negativity and silence you know.

AL-MO
10-03-2008, 01:44 PM
Look in todays news. They have basically said that the Red Patch Boys want Mo out, because of the sign.

And alot of people thought that the "In Carver we Trust" represented all RPB's and all supporters! People have differing opinions on everything...

jloome
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
Hey DODO totally missing the point yah. I support TFC and MCFC is that a prob. Can you find anyone here who is a TFC only supporter? I am just sick of the bitching and complaining that goes on after every game. Even if we win a point. Self righteous gimmee a break..... im'e a city fan.

You think there's ANYTHING relevant in the world that doens't include a shade of grey then call someone else a dodo? Holy irony, Batman.

The bitching is because the team sucks. You can bitch and be a hardcore fan. In fact in most European leagues, the official supporters clubs do the loudest bitching of anyone.

More and more it seems these boards have become a refuge for cheerleaders and cheerleader mods who come down on, stifle or otherwise try to disengage opinions they don't like. People who used to be able to have a good debate are off in a private forum because they don't like negativity.

Unreal. The point of forums is to discuss things, not censor them. If you're sick of the bitching, here's a suggestion: read the title of the thread and then use that allegedly huge brain of yours to move on to the next topic. It's OBVIOUS which threads are negative, and no one forces you to stay, anymore than someone forces you to watch a TV channel when you have a remote in your hand. Or, better yet, spend all of your time in a private forum cheering yourself for what a great fan you are.

If people are upset with the atmosphere at games, I'd suggest cutting off the head of the messengers -- the upset fans -- is kind of missing the point. They want effort; they want enterprise; they want a team that at least puts enough into a game to stand a chance of winning.

Why is that considered unreasonable, exactly? I spent most of this season on the bandwagon, remaining as positive as possible. Now that it's basically in the tank, I see no reason to be. Doesn't make me any less of a fan of the team, just the current squad's performance and those responsible for it. I'll still watch every minute of every game, proudly wear the red-and-white in public and all that.

That's being a fan, not treating it like being part of a fan club is more important than the game itself.

Jack
10-03-2008, 03:12 PM
If you want to take a sideswipe at the moderation of the forums, feel free to do so in the appropriate section.

This section is for discussion about Toronto FC and MLS.

We do not stifle opinions. We stifle insults and personal attacks. We also stifle trolling and opinion spamming, which is not the same as discussion.

Oldtimer
10-03-2008, 03:17 PM
More and more it seems these boards have become a refuge for cheerleaders and cheerleader mods who come down on, stifle or otherwise try to disengage opinions they don't like. People who used to be able to have a good debate are off in a private forum because they don't like negativity.

Unreal. The point of forums is to discuss things, not censor them.

You must be reading a different board than I am.
This board has become a refuge for negativity and trolls.
It's worse than Bigsoccer.

BTW, people have as much a right to NOT read negativity as you do to write it.

Oldtimer
10-03-2008, 03:20 PM
Another point, the original board, while it had differing views, had an overall positive tone. This negativity is mainly from people who have come recently.

Angelo1405
10-03-2008, 03:27 PM
And why is anyone surprised that there were empty seats? I'm actually encouraged that there were some empty seats today. It tells you that a lot of people who go to the games actually know about the team and its piss poor form. It tells you that they don't just go to the games to get drunk and throw shit on the pitch.

I agree with every word right there. Actually, i believe the fans need to voice there opinion MORE In games and chants. Banners, Not showing up to games, showing how we feel in chants, telling the coach who to put in and chanting theyre name is one of the ways to voice your opinion to the club. The best in the world, even my own club's fans emptied the stadium and voiced their opinion to the team, even invaded their office, there was some dude that threatened him and his family with a letter, now....Hes Out, and our team is doing better, the Torcida/fans are back. and thats how we change the team for good :)

the fans brought like 3,000 to games when we usually average like 30 thousand or more. heres a picture from Europe somewhere protesting

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_4fgeZI8DIAseqjzbkF/SIG=12d90mr9d/EXP=1223152287/**http%3A//www.ego2.nl/20062007/Protest8apr/Protest8apr06.jpg

Beach_Red
10-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Another point, the original board, while it had differing views, had an overall positive tone. This negativity is mainly from people who have come recently.

I don't know about that. I discovered this place about last February and it hasn't changed much (unless you mean from even before then).

As a guy who doesn't know much about soccer I've learned a lot here - back at the beginning of the season someone (Ensco?) broke down the goals from free kicks with pictures and everything, showing how the play was planned and executed.

For a while Footyfan had some useful stuff about the history of the MLS.

But there was always plenty of bitching and some hatred of Mo that had nothing to do with this team. That I had to look up myself and find the history and I get it now so it's easy to ignore.

The team has underperformed and that's going to get "discussed" here a lot. At least when we say "underperformed" we know there's a lot better play in the future.

starrynightnf
10-03-2008, 07:43 PM
I don't think it's always about getting wins, when you're talking about a newish club, I think people would be a lot happier, and less negative if we were seeing effort and improvement from match to match. Then you'd have the hope that it's got to lead to wins. At least I'm hoping that's what a lot of people are trying to get at.

I also have no problem with cheering them on and trying to inspire something great on the field...That is our job, I believe.

I dunno, I'm fairly new to soccer too...like I mentioned on the old boards, I got hooked from the last world cup and found this RPB online before TFCs first season...so I'm not exactly used to this whole thing, since TFC is the first club I've supported. But it seems like there's a fine line between accepting anything they give us and supporting them anyway, and letting them know we're not happy with continued shitty performances and expect better while not completely un-motivating them.

I don't know if that makes any sense...it's Friday and my mind shuts off on Fridays. :D

BTW, since I am still kinda newish to this soccer addiction.... I'm still in the state of loving soccer so much that I enjoy every match anyway! Ohhh to be able to sing and cheer and lose my mind at an actual live match at BMO...one day, hopefully.


~Leslie (- completely jealous of you folks in TO...)

p.s Congratulations on the new little cutie pie, Oblio2!! :)

jloome
10-03-2008, 09:02 PM
You must be reading a different board than I am.
This board has become a refuge for negativity and trolls.
It's worse than Bigsoccer.

BTW, people have as much a right to NOT read negativity as you do to write it.

Yes, they also have eyes with which to make that choice. If a thread strikes you as negative, stop reading. It's not hard. Nobody forces you to read a negative thread any more than you're forced to read certain newspapers or watch certain TV shows.

I agree, generally the tenor here has become more negative; but given the results, that makes perfect sense. It would be quite irrational for everyone to be happy and chipper in the wake of the second half display. If you don't like the fact that they harp on it a) don't read it b) blame the team, not the messengers.

Jack, you can believe that all you want. As someone who spends a good deal of his professional time being paid to make the kind of judgments you just did, I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying it's the norm, just that it happens with disconcerting frequency. To say it doesn't happen, flat out, is not realistic on ANY forum, never mind one as divided as this.

As for keeping up support, to me that's a separate issue. I don't get to go to games; I'm 3000 kilometres away. So instead, I spend every game on my haunches in front of the coffee table -- because straining my leg muscles is the only way to expend the energy that develops from over-stimulation by the ol' adrenal gland. And the last game was actually the first one ever in the team's history where I felt more like yelling criticism than support.

I suppose that's part of why I think it's a worthy exercise to continually debate who and who isn't fucking up; because it matters THAT MUCH to me and to other fans here. Very little of what I see on that front here would constitute "spamming" or "trolling" unless you're coming from the perspective that negativity should be censored. It may not be intelligent, stimulating or constructive, but that's not the same thing as spamming and trolling, which are deliberately malicious.

Anyway, there's not much point in going over this any length. I think I've made my point and am not particularly optimistic I'm going to run smack dab into any humility on the issue, so I'm going to move on to threads that actually have something to do with football.

Jack
10-03-2008, 10:54 PM
Yes, they also have eyes with which to make that choice. If a thread strikes you as negative, stop reading. It's not hard. Nobody forces you to read a negative thread any more than you're forced to read certain newspapers or watch certain TV shows.

I agree, generally the tenor here has become more negative; but given the results, that makes perfect sense. It would be quite irrational for everyone to be happy and chipper in the wake of the second half display. If you don't like the fact that they harp on it a) don't read it b) blame the team, not the messengers.

Jack, you can believe that all you want. As someone who spends a good deal of his professional time being paid to make the kind of judgments you just did, I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying it's the norm, just that it happens with disconcerting frequency. To say it doesn't happen, flat out, is not realistic on ANY forum, never mind one as divided as this.

As for keeping up support, to me that's a separate issue. I don't get to go to games; I'm 3000 kilometres away. So instead, I spend every game on my haunches in front of the coffee table -- because straining my leg muscles is the only way to expend the energy that develops from over-stimulation by the ol' adrenal gland. And the last game was actually the first one ever in the team's history where I felt more like yelling criticism than support.

I suppose that's part of why I think it's a worthy exercise to continually debate who and who isn't fucking up; because it matters THAT MUCH to me and to other fans here. Very little of what I see on that front here would constitute "spamming" or "trolling" unless you're coming from the perspective that negativity should be censored. It may not be intelligent, stimulating or constructive, but that's not the same thing as spamming and trolling, which are deliberately malicious.

Anyway, there's not much point in going over this any length. I think I've made my point and am not particularly optimistic I'm going to run smack dab into any humility on the issue, so I'm going to move on to threads that actually have something to do with football.

The thing is, jloome, I'm very open to opinions on the subject.

I'm not exactly what you could call pleased with TFC. But there has been a certain amount of opinion spamming with regards to the team. It's fine to criticize, it's welcome.

But to continually, and in every single thread possible, state the same position over and over is both tedious and annoying to other forum users. We have users on this forum who do just that.

I'm all for discussion and definitely will not shut down or ban someone who doesn't agree with me. That's not the type of person I am.

FluSH
10-03-2008, 10:59 PM
The thing is, jloome, I'm very open to opinions on the subject.

I'm not exactly what you could call pleased with TFC. But there has been a certain amount of opinion spamming with regards to the team. It's fine to criticize, it's welcome.

But to continually, and in every single thread possible, state the same position over and over is both tedious and annoying to other forum users. We have users on this forum who do just that.

I'm all for discussion and definitely will not shut down or ban someone who doesn't agree with me. That's not the type of person I am.

Amen to that...

jloome
10-03-2008, 11:10 PM
I suppose that's a legitimate problem for some, but I long ago figured out who those people were and added them to my ignore list. I don't even see their posts as long as I'm signed in.

Jack
10-03-2008, 11:12 PM
I suppose that's a legitimate problem for some, but I long ago figured out who those people were and added them to my ignore list. I don't even see their posts as long as I'm signed in.

A luxury neither the moderators, nor I, can indulge, unfortunately.

Cambridge_Red
10-03-2008, 11:15 PM
Cheer up peeps :D

GhostPK
10-03-2008, 11:17 PM
Guys and ladies.... I am a Saskatchewan Roughrider fan, always have been. If you watch any sports shows as of last year, you will know that the Riders haven't won the Grey cup for 18 besides last year. The Fan support has always been there... like all teams, there have been the bandwagon jumpers, but the support and atmosphere at every game has always been intense and widely regarded as the best atmosphere in the CFL.

What am I getting at? I am attending the University of British Columbia and each friday I have my gameday clothes on to support my TFC. I say MY TFC because even if the team sits in the bottom of the barrell for the next 18 years, there will be no other MLS team that I will cheer for. People can be negative all they want, they can ebay their TFC merch or do whatever they want. Bottom line is that there are passionate fans here that will always be there for their team. On behalf of those who are passionate for TFC... please take your negative shit, put it all in one barrell and quit spamming this forum with your garbage. You're only adding to the pollution.
(No Im not saying that only passionate fans have nothing negative to say about their team (someone is going to comment on that) personally, I dislike Harmse, but I dont go on every thread and announce it as bold fact.)

andyc
10-03-2008, 11:25 PM
The thing is, jloome, I'm very open to opinions on the subject.

I'm not exactly what you could call pleased with TFC. But there has been a certain amount of opinion spamming with regards to the team. It's fine to criticize, it's welcome.

But to continually, and in every single thread possible, state the same position over and over is both tedious and annoying to other forum users. We have users on this forum who do just that.

I'm all for discussion and definitely will not shut down or ban someone who doesn't agree with me. That's not the type of person I am.

So my opinion on this is that the board has become quite negative, but I do seem to remember this happening last year too.

While I understand that the mods have a really tough job, there does seem to be somewhat a hasty shut down of any threads that look like getting out of control. I respect the need to stop threats of a racial or violent nature, but closing a thread due to the fact that they are tedious, repetitive or negative leans towards the trigger happy.

I've been on these boards since the first home game - I didn't know that you guys existed before then but I was real happy that you did! I seem to remember some pretty turbulent discussions then and the world didn't end...

So to me, I think that Carver is a class guy, who needs some help. I get really fed up with the constant I hate Carver comments but if we continually cut off any extreme opinions then we may as well be an official TFC forum moderated by CV2....

I have witnessed you be open to other peoples opinions so I would ask you to think back a year or so and wonder if the private forums and strict moderation have in themselves had a negative influence over the content of these recent discussions.

My best example is how you crticized jloomes earlier post and took it as an attack on the mods. This guy has posted some posts that could be viewed as pretty arogant but they were based in knowledge and fact. To be honest and without getting up his arse he has generated some of the best football discussions over the summer...

I would respectfully suggest that we all need to be a little more relaxed in these forums... Both negative and positive...

Oh yes I know I'm off topic and in the wrong forum :)

Jack
10-03-2008, 11:29 PM
Hey, I thoroughly enjoy jloome's posts, even if I don't agree with all of them.

I think he brings the right kind of discussion to the boards.

There are people who don't and they end up getting shut down pretty quickly.

There are also people who come in here to post with an agenda.

If it was all just differences of opinion, it would be fine. But we get attacks on the group and attacks on individuals.

All in all, the mods have a tough and thankless job. You're never going to make everyone happy. On one hand, people think they have an itchy trigger finger, while on the other they think the mods let too much go and should be stricter. :noidea:

It's not easy to draw the line.

AL-MO
10-03-2008, 11:34 PM
Funny the ones who complain about us being 'cheerleaders' and trigger happy on closing threads are always the ones without 'RPB Member' under their name. . .

Roogsy
10-03-2008, 11:38 PM
^A point I noticed long ago.

It seems some want the liberty to run freely and shit everywhere in a place they did nothing to help create or support.

And then call it censorship when that very place makes efforts to clean up not opinion, but unwanted trolling. I'd rather see them leave than the very members who paid to have this place up and running but can't bring themselves to come back because of this crap on this board.

andyc
10-03-2008, 11:39 PM
Yeah but shutting people down often ends up with shutting threads down. There are too few interesting ones and maybe the control points need to be more focussed on the individual that the the topic... I agree that attacks on individuals or the group should not be acceptable other than Barbarez for entertainment value!

Agendas will always happen... I have one and I'm sure you do too... The challenge is alway getting people to retain control. Again I think the control should be at the individual level.

It's definitely a fine line to tread but I think we should err on the side of encouraging discussion where possible.

Roogsy
10-03-2008, 11:43 PM
Yeah but shutting people down often ends up with shutting threads down. There are too few interesting ones and maybe the control points need to be more focussed on the individual that the the topic... I agree that attacks on individuals or the group should not be acceptable other than Barbarez for entertainment value!

Agendas will always happen... I have one and I'm sure you do too... The challenge is alway getting people to retain control. Again I think the control should be at the individual level.

It's definitely a fine line to tread but I think we should err on the side of encouraging discussion where possible.

Since we cannot control the "people" then we have the only means at our disposal, controlling the threads. If you have a suggestion on how to control individuals, we'd be happy to listen to them.

And if anyone thinks discussions are being curtailed, believe me, I would like to see an example of it. Because this board is FULL of different opinions, none of which have been censored. What this board is also full of is people failing to respect the opinions of others and also deciding that their opinion is worth spamming then entire board in every available thread they can.

If you think that stifles opinion, then we have a real dilemma on our hands.

And to be honest, all this talk of censorship, I would certainly welcome somebody putting up an example of an opinion that has been censored on this board. Just one.

andyc
10-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Funny the ones who complain about us being 'cheerleaders' and trigger happy on closing threads are always the ones without 'RPB Member' under their name. . .

This is a great example of where I was going with my post... The whole member thing is becoming devisive. If my opinion means more I will pay $25...

I didn't become a member for a whole bunch of reasons but sent a PM a couple of weeks ago to ask if you were still accepting members but have not heard back yet.

I decided to join just to make this type of issue go away...

andyc
10-03-2008, 11:59 PM
Since we cannot control the "people" then we have the only means at our disposal, controlling the threads. If you have a suggestion on how to control individuals, we'd be happy to listen to them.

And if anyone thinks discussions are being curtailed, believe me, I would like to see an example of it. Because this board is FULL of different opinions, none of which have been censored. What this board is also full of is people failing to respect the opinions of others and also deciding that their opinion is worth spamming then entire board in every available thread they can.

If you think that stifles opinion, then we have a real dilemma on our hands.

And to be honest, all this talk of censorship, I would certainly welcome somebody putting up an example of an opinion that has been censored on this board. Just one.

I really don't think that I said censorship or even seriously hinted at it... My comments were around shutting down debates early. I guess I see how you make the link but censorship to me has a much stronger intent.

My comment around controlling people was me trying to hint at the use of red and yellow cards as opposed to closing threads. I've certainly seen this feature being used...

As for examples, there are two threads on the front page of the Toronto FC forum that were closed today. Maybe some of the commentary got out of hand but did they need to be closed? For the record I didn't contribute or particularly read these threads but I'm just trying to demostrate a shift in acceptance level...

Roogsy
10-04-2008, 04:08 PM
Did you perhaps ask why it was closed? You have to admit that there has to be at least SOME administration, which means at times SOME posts will be closed or moved. The question is how much? You can at least admit that when it comes to deciding these things, there will always be an element that is unhappy, it comes down to "you can't please everyone all the time". So then at the very least, you have to look at the overall picture and decide for yourself if this board allows a reasonable amount of discussion from all points of view. If your honest answer is no...then I would be very surprised.

andyc
10-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Hey I completely agree that the board lets discussion happen and the mods have a tough job keeping everyone happy. You asked for examples and I pointed to two recently closed threads. One was pretty clear why it was closed but I feel the other was more borderline.

I'm really not saying things need to change drastically, just that I've noticed a shift in the level of tolerance and maybe in my opinion it's gone a touch too far....

Roogsy
10-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Hey I completely agree that the board lets discussion happen and the mods have a tough job keeping everyone happy. You asked for examples and I pointed to two recently closed threads. One was pretty clear why it was closed but I feel the other was more borderline.

I'm really not saying things need to change drastically, just that I've noticed a shift in the level of tolerance and maybe in my opinion it's gone a touch too far....

The more aggressive modding is on purpose. There are simply too many complaints and far too many people crossing the line. It has become necessary not by choice but from necessity. Had people controlled themselves more, there would probably be some leeway, but now the message is that anything questionable will be shut down.

Should things improve, I am sure we can go back to the days when there was a more laissez-faire attitude in that regard. Let's hope. I prefer to participate rather than have to waste my time playing a douchebag or a hard-ass and ruining it for somebody, and I am sure its like that for the others as well.