Meet the new Whipping Boy

[NF-FC]

http://redbull.newyork.mlsnet.com/imgs/bios/photos/freeman_h.jpg

[Canary Canuck]

I think his first touch into the beer garden was even worse than the own goal.... but wow! What a bum. Go to Norway tomorrow if you please

[twistedchinaman]

This is the guy who is supposed to disappear after the end of this season to Denmark, right?

[LucaGol]

For some reason, Mo thinks its a smart idea to bring in basically useless players, when the young talent that we have that could be developing, Gabe Gala, Tyler Rosenlund, Derek Gaudet, Johann Smith, ... is rotting on the bench.

See under Carlos Ruiz and Hunter Freeman. (although Ruiz obviously didn't feature today)

[dannyd]

How this own goal can be blamed on Freeman I can't understand. Sutton should take all the blame for this one.. As usual he makes a careless give away under no pressure. And then is caught in no-man's land. I've been saying since day one Sutton is NOT mls material. Why he's starting ahead of Edwards I'll never understand. Even a twat like Dale Mitchel has enough sense not to start Sutton...

[LucaGol]

How this own goal can be blamed on Freeman I can't understand. Sutton should take all the blame for this one.. As usual he makes a careless give away under no pressure. And then is caught in no-man's land. I've been saying since day one Sutton is NOT mls material. Why he's starting ahead of Edwards I'll never understand. Even a twat like Dale Mitchel has enough sense not to start Sutton...

The hell you talking about?

How is a blind back header the goalie's fault?

Do you not see how many game saving shots Sutton gets in front of?


Ok Sutton's distribution is attrocious, but who cares ... his job is to stop shots, not to be a playmaker. A goalie's aptitude for delivering or distributing the ball is something that's always erroneously brought up as a negative against a keeper. It's very low on the important actions that a keeper has to perform.

[TFC USA]

Mo is doing a wonderful job, Ricketts and Dichio may have been over-the-hill players, but they have been the best. British soccer is the way to go because it is the best in the world and it is really cheap, look at the Premier League, where almost all of the players are British and fees are cheap.

We really shouldn't look to Africa or South America for prospects because they aren't 35 year old wasteful Europeans......

I think the 5 year plan will be great for the club, Mo is one of the top GMs, it's the players that are bad.........even if it takes 20 years and Mo it still in charge I'll still be behind him because he played in the UK so he knows what he is doing (like nearly all of the TFC coaching staff right?).</sarcasm>

[olegunnar]

What is wrong with some people?
I mean I get the whole be respectful stuff when disagreeing...but the implication that Hunter Freeman is at fault for the own goal is a direct and obvious sign people have no clue what they are talking about.
Let's talk about this objectiveley

1) Sutton Flubs his clearance. Under zero pressure. Pure screw up
2) Hunter Freeman has his back to goal, he's defending so he has no clue where Sutton is. Who's fault is that?
3) Sutton comes but tells no one. He's a mute. No leadership from the back. No call...Mine! Got it! Nothing so Freeman assumes he'lll just head it back

Freeman did his job. He helped clean up after Sutton's gaff on the clearance If Sutton is going to come to claim the ball he has to boss his area and call for it.

He did not. Lame.

How exactly is Hunter to blame? Yet again we dropped point thanks to Sutton.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Couldnt believe Ricketts was subbed off instead of Freeman.
I know everyone makes mistakes, it was a shit game for everyone but that sub didnt make any sense to me at all.

[gardooney]

Mo is doing a wonderful job, Ricketts and Dichio may have been over-the-hill players, but they have been the best. British soccer is the way to go because it is the best in the world and it is really cheap, look at the Premier League, where almost all of the players are British and fees are cheap.

We really shouldn't look to Africa or South America for prospects because they aren't 35 year old wasteful Europeans......

I think the 5 year plan will be great for the club, Mo is one of the top GMs, it's the players that are bad.........even if it takes 20 years and Mo it still in charge I'll still be behind him because he played in the UK so he knows what he is doing (like nearly all of the TFC coaching staff right?).</sarcasm>

Well then go ahead, fuck it support another team......

[Dirk Diggler]

What is wrong with some people?
I mean I get the whole be respectful stuff when disagreeing...but the implication that Hunter Freeman is at fault for the own goal is a direct and obvious sign people have no clue what they are talking about.
Let's talk about this objectiveley

1) Sutton Flubs his clearance. Under zero pressure. Pure screw up
2) Hunter Freeman has his back to goal, he's defending so he has no clue where Sutton is. Who's fault is that?
3) Sutton comes but tells no one. He's a mute. No leadership from the back. No call...Mine! Got it! Nothing so Freeman assumes he'lll just head it back

Freeman did his job. He helped clean up after Sutton's gaff on the clearance If Sutton is going to come to claim the ball he has to boss his area and call for it.

He did not. Lame.

How exactly is Hunter to blame? Yet again we dropped point thanks to Sutton.

Did Sutton really not call for the ball? If that is the case than there really is no doubt that the blame lies squarely on his shoulder.

[Benficachop20]

How exactly is Hunter to blame? Yet again we dropped point thanks to Sutton.

Oh yes im sure Sutton has never saved our asses, in basically every match, especially the shit load of break aways he has to deal with in basically every game. Ya were losing because of him keeping the score reasonable, surely were losing because of sutton and not because our attackers cant even shoot on the fucking target (*cough* Barrett *Cough*)

[Beach_Red]

I think the 5 year plan will be great for the club, Mo is one of the top GMs, it's the players that are bad.........even if it takes 20 years and Mo it still in charge I'll still be behind him because he played in the UK so he knows what he is doing (like nearly all of the TFC coaching staff right?).</sarcasm>

Thanks for the tip on the sarcasm, us dumb TFC supporters would never have figured it out.

[DOMIN8R]

Couldnt believe Ricketts was subbed off instead of Freeman.
I know everyone makes mistakes, it was a shit game for everyone but that sub didnt make any sense to me at all.

Ricketts and Barett had no wheels left. They had to be subbed off. Freeman still had fitness.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Ricketts and Barett had no wheels left. They had to be subbed off. Freeman still had fitness.

Fair enough, didnt see it but its reasonable explaination.

[Bobo]

How this own goal can be blamed on Freeman I can't understand. Sutton should take all the blame for this one.. As usual he makes a careless give away under no pressure. And then is caught in no-man's land. I've been saying since day one Sutton is NOT mls material. Why he's starting ahead of Edwards I'll never understand. Even a twat like Dale Mitchel has enough sense not to start Sutton...

Man this started off good too.

The goal was (seemingly) Sutton's fault, if you are going out of your net, you make sure you call for the ball or at least let your players know where you are. However, he's been our best player this season so saying he's not fit for our team is pretty dumb.

[TFC USA]

Thanks for the tip on the sarcasm, us dumb TFC supporters would never have figured it out.


RPB Brantford 08 would've given me a QFT if I didn't put it on there so I made sure. :D:p

[arsenal]

Man this started off good too.

The goal was (seemingly) Sutton's fault, if you are going out of your net, you make sure you call for the ball or at least let your players know where you are. However, he's been our best player this season so saying he's not fit for our team is pretty dumb.

Indeed the goal was Sutton's fault. I still do not even see why he was going out for the ball. Marshall and Freeman had it covered and there were not any Dynamo players in the near vicinity. I would not go as far as saying that Sutton has been our best player though. He has made some fantastic reflex saves throughout the year but he has also made some really stupid mistakes that a top flight goaltender should not be making (distribution & poor positioning). The only thing that keeps him within mention of our best player is that the rest of the team has played so poorly.

[Jack]

I've thought Freeman has been doing a good job so far for us, despite this.

[Shakes McQueen]

Mo is doing a wonderful job, Ricketts and Dichio may have been over-the-hill players, but they have been the best. British soccer is the way to go because it is the best in the world and it is really cheap, look at the Premier League, where almost all of the players are British and fees are cheap.

We really shouldn't look to Africa or South America for prospects because they aren't 35 year old wasteful Europeans......

I think the 5 year plan will be great for the club, Mo is one of the top GMs, it's the players that are bad.........even if it takes 20 years and Mo it still in charge I'll still be behind him because he played in the UK so he knows what he is doing (like nearly all of the TFC coaching staff right?).</sarcasm>

What does this have to do with anything that happened today? Mo just came back from a scouting trip to the exact regions you mentioned, and said he is taking more trips there in the off-season.

The own goal was Sutton's fault, but I certainly don't begrudge him for it. Sometimes shit just happens. Lord knows he has saved our asses enough times this season.

While I was disappointed we got only the single point, I was encouraged by the caliber of play today. Houston is a good team, and we went toe to toe with them. And had it not been for a lack of communication on Sutton's part, we might have come away with three points.

- Scott

[TFC Cityboy]

spent the whole game assuming it was friggin Marshall, not Freeman...mind you, both are pants

[MisterMacphisto]

The hell you talking about?

How is a blind back header the goalie's fault?

Do you not see how many game saving shots Sutton gets in front of?


Ok Sutton's distribution is attrocious, but who cares ... his job is to stop shots, not to be a playmaker. A goalie's aptitude for delivering or distributing the ball is something that's always erroneously brought up as a negative against a keeper. It's very low on the important actions that a keeper has to perform.

I just got home and watched it on tivo again and again, and the goal was mostly Sutton's fault. He shanked the clearance to pop it up in the first place, then when the ball was coming back, I don't see him mouth moving or saying anything to the defenders to let them know he was coming for it it. If Freeman thought Sutton was in position, it would of went right too Sutton. If Sutton had called him off, he wouldn't have head it back.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Barrett missed so many chances, he had to be subbed really...

and Freeman, well, it was a very poor header. He got under the ball instead of tapping it down towards Sutton. Sutton can't be blamed for coming off his line, either...

[bhoybobby]

Couldnt believe Ricketts was subbed off instead of Freeman.
I know everyone makes mistakes, it was a shit game for everyone but that sub didnt make any sense to me at all.

Ricketts is all about Ricketts, he never goes outside, always inside, he's so fucking predictable, overplays everything.

He has talent, but his decision making is shite, a bit thick methinks.

[bhoybobby]

I just got home and watched it on tivo again and again, and the goal was mostly Sutton's fault. He shanked the clearance to pop it up in the first place, then when the ball was coming back, I don't see him mouth moving or saying anything to the defenders to let them know he was coming for it it. If Freeman thought Sutton was in position, it would of went right too Sutton. If Sutton had called him off, he wouldn't have head it back.

The shank was Sutton's fault, the blind back header wasn't.

Sutton made several top drwer saves today, he was the sole reason we didn't get stuffed.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Ricketts is all about Ricketts, he never goes outside, always inside, he's so fucking predictable, overplays everything.

He has talent, but his decision making is shite, a bit thick methinks.

HA you just (sorta) answered my question from another thread.
I can see that to a certain extent, im not entirely sure that this isnt something that cant be trained out of him and also i dont think that hes always in the mid, i do think its sorta necessary as of recent because of the lack of attack our team seems to have. Granted this is a man thats better a at passing then shooting therefore perhaps he should stick to the wings

[BC101]

I watched the match on TV and I can say with some certainty that Sutton did not call for it but instead just bolted out. Blaming Freeman for this is a mistake.

[LucaGol]

I just got home and watched it on tivo again and again, and the goal was mostly Sutton's fault. He shanked the clearance to pop it up in the first place, then when the ball was coming back, I don't see him mouth moving or saying anything to the defenders to let them know he was coming for it it. If Freeman thought Sutton was in position, it would of went right too Sutton. If Sutton had called him off, he wouldn't have head it back.

Shanked a clearance which was already a poor back pass ... you can't fault the keeper for such situations.

Secondly, why is Freeman heading it back towards goal ... and blindly?

Sutton is coming to collect because two Houston attackers are at the edge of his box ready to attack.

A simple clearing header outwards from Freeman would have sufficed.

Instead he gets too cute with it and it ends up in the back of the net.

[BC101]

Shanked a clearance which was already a poor back pass ... you can't fault the keeper for such situations.

Secondly, why is Freeman heading it back towards goal ... and blindly?

Sutton is coming to collect because two Houston attackers are at the edge of his box ready to attack.

A simple clearing header outwards from Freeman would have sufficed.

Instead he gets too cute with it and it ends up in the back of the net.

Can't argue with that point but one should have enough confidence in his GK calling for it or not just randomly wandering off his line. To that degree.

[LucaGol]

Can't argue with that point but one should have enough confidence in his GK calling for it or not just randomly wandering off his line. To that degree.

More than anything it was probably just unfamiliarity for everyone involved.

I mean the backline consisted of two players Sutton had never even seen back there before ... Harmse and Freeman.

I suppose things like this happen every now again ... but its maddening as hell. Especially during these shitty times.

[BC101]

More than anything it was probably just unfamiliarity for everyone involved.

I mean the backline consisted of two players Sutton had never even seen back there before ... Harmse and Freeman.

I suppose things like this happen every now again ... but its maddening as hell. Especially during these shitty times.

Golden age is coming apparently if you listen to Mo... DP next year(LOL)
But i understand you're frustration... Watching the match today even after Wynne's goal they just seemed so uninterested.

[rocktml]

guys forget Freeman...........Jarrod Smith should have blame on him he must look BEFORE PASSING!!!! Blind passes all the time

[RPB_Brantford_08]

What is wrong with some people?
I mean I get the whole be respectful stuff when disagreeing...but the implication that Hunter Freeman is at fault for the own goal is a direct and obvious sign people have no clue what they are talking about.
Let's talk about this objectiveley

1) Sutton Flubs his clearance. Under zero pressure. Pure screw up
2) Hunter Freeman has his back to goal, he's defending so he has no clue where Sutton is. Who's fault is that?
3) Sutton comes but tells no one. He's a mute. No leadership from the back. No call...Mine! Got it! Nothing so Freeman assumes he'lll just head it back

Freeman did his job. He helped clean up after Sutton's gaff on the clearance If Sutton is going to come to claim the ball he has to boss his area and call for it.

He did not. Lame.

How exactly is Hunter to blame? Yet again we dropped point thanks to Sutton.

go back to the KC game and you see Sutton off line when the KC chips in the easy goal....time for Edwards for the next game.

[Rocco]

I just saw the highlight. I'm a fan of Sutton, he's a great goalkeeper. It's all his fault on this play. Freeman did what he could do... i.e. clear it back to the keeper, thinking he's on his line, where he's supposed to be.

[billyfly]

spent the whole game assuming it was friggin Marshall, not Freeman...mind you, both are pants

Me too! I'm still sitting here thinking it was Marshall. R we sure it was Freeman?!?

[billyfly]

guys forget Freeman...........Jarrod Smith should have blame on him he must look BEFORE PASSING!!!! Blind passes all the time

Agreed! Multiple times he made passes to no one and that horrible touch to send it over the goal line instead of centering it was dreadful.

House league on Thursday at Lamport has better players.

[Axeman]

Sutton didn't call for it, and should've been screaming at the defenceman to get out of the way. That being said what the hell was Freeman thinking! The Blind Back Head Pass yeah great idea!
I like Sutton but this isn't the first time his lack of communication has hurt us.

[Nuvinho]

A good keeper controls the game, by communicating with his defense. He has to be a vocal leader out there. He should of called for that ball if he wanted it. I have seen many blind back headers in other games and leagues, and it came to no harm, b/c their keepers were vocal.

[Oldtimer]

Our defense is quite weak. Guevara had to keep tracking back to rescue them, which hurt our offense. So any rebuilding needs to start at the back.

I didn't feel that the players didn't care, more like it looked like they were extremely nervous, and were just trying not to fail. No player does well if they are a bundle of nerves.

It also looks like DeRo was nervous playing in front of family and friends. It's been interesting to me that a player who normally is quite amazing plays quite poorly at BMO. That's bad new should we ever trade for him, although it's good news for now.

[Baggio2TFC]

What we neeed is a face lift. Clean house except for the core. Bring in some young talent and start from there. There is no cemistry on this team. Did you see houston out there, passing blind, playing the triangle..... that is a team. Lots of cemistry there.

Get it done MO, get it DONE!!!

[nascarguy]

freeman need to go now send his dumd ass over now

[loyola]

A good keeper controls the game, by communicating with his defense. He has to be a vocal leader out there. He should of called for that ball if he wanted it. I have seen many blind back headers in other games and leagues, and it came to no harm, b/c their keepers were vocal.

Agree with that but watching the replay on the MLS website it seemed to me that Sutton did call for the ball but way way too late when the ball was on Freeman's head. Poor communication from Sutton and not the first time it happenned with him.

[coisty1966]

The shank was Sutton's fault, the blind back header wasn't.

Sutton made several top drwer saves today, he was the sole reason we didn't get stuffed.

positioning and distribution is the key difference between a good keeper and one that just doesn't cut it....most keepers in this league can "shot stop" but not all of them put their defense under so much pressure like sutton.....to me, i think its time for a change between the sticks

[Boondaddy]

no keeper change required.....sutton is our man but simply made a poor decision to come out for the ball. It happens sometimes....you've got to own the area within the box. Sutton wasn't vocal....simple as that. Freeman didn't know where he was in relation to his keeper....Sutton's job to inform him.

We should be more concerned with our inability to finish....

[Dirk Diggler]

I really think we should be playing Edwards the rest of the season. Sutton isn't going to get any better ... we have to look towards the future. I say bench all tossers ... Sutton, Guevera, Freeman etc .... play all the youngsters the rest of the way. At least make something out of this situation.

[Roogsy]

I just re-watched the game.

That goal was Sutt's fault. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

Freeman had some fault for it, but mostly it was Sutton. From muffing the clearance, to not calling off the defender and then coming out to no-mans land.

Let's move on.

[jloome]

I just re-watched the game.

That goal was Sutt's fault. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

Freeman had some fault for it, but mostly it was Sutton. From muffing the clearance, to not calling off the defender and then coming out to no-mans land.

Let's move on.

Actually, Freeman says in the story on the team site that Sutton did call it, just as he was heading the ball. So maybe Sutton called it late. But it's moot, because Freeman also admits he played the low-percentage play when he should've just chested it down and booted it out.

[Roogsy]

Actually, Freeman says in the story on the team site that Sutton did call it, just as he was heading the ball. So maybe Sutton called it late. But it's moot, because Freeman also admits he played the low-percentage play when he should've just chested it down and booted it out.

If Sutts did call it, it sort of evens out the blame a little...but the muffing of the clearance was a big mistake. All I am saying is in this case, Freeman should not get all the blame.

[Beach_Red]

no keeper change required......

It all depends on what players become available. There is no safe position on this team if a better player becomes available, sign him.

[LucaGol]

If Sutts did call it, it sort of evens out the blame a little...but the muffing of the clearance was a big mistake. All I am saying is in this case, Freeman should not get all the blame.

Dude he was trying to one time clear a poor back pass in the first place ...

And whatever I agree, it doesn't really matter anyways ... there was too much confusion and miscommunication on the play from all parties involved. So in other words ... typical TFC play.

From the first poor back pass, to Freeman making the riskier play, to Sutton coming to claim the ball in no-man's land .. hell even Tyrone Marshall could have let Freeman know Sutton was coming to collect.

[LucaGol]

It all depends on what players become available. There is no safe position on this team if a better player becomes available, sign him.

Yes.

If this philosophy is not followed. It will be fatal.

Mo Johnston had better not make the same mistake he did last year and try build around the "core" group that he already had.

The first step should be for John Carver and Mo Johnston to determine exactly what they trying to accomplish for next season, what type of system they want to play, and how they are going to go about stocking the team.

Hell, turnover the whole team for I'll I care, just make sure you're not ignoring positions because a Rohan Ricketts, Jim Brennan, Carl Robinson, Greg Sutton, or Amado Guevara is there. Quote unquote seemingly untouchable positions

[J .]

poor communication cause the goal

freeman and sutton eff'd up

[BuSaPuNk]

poor communication cause the goal

freeman and sutton eff'd up

Completely agree. Bad clearance by Sutton surprise surprise. Even worse header by freeman. They are both at fault. Sutton should have call for the ball, Freeman should have headed it towards midfield...even if he gave it away it would have been better than what happened.

Still a good showing against the best team in the league. If our finishing was better we wouldn't be last place but somewhere around 3rd or 4th easily.

[Keegan]

How this own goal can be blamed on Freeman I can't understand. Sutton should take all the blame for this one.. As usual he makes a careless give away under no pressure. And then is caught in no-man's land. I've been saying since day one Sutton is NOT mls material. Why he's starting ahead of Edwards I'll never understand. Even a twat like Dale Mitchel has enough sense not to start Sutton...

Sutton has been team MVP this year. Easily. So if he isn't MLS material who is?

Showed up every game. Freeman admitted he heard Sutton and still not only headed it but blindly towards his own goal!

[poppamidnight]

I called sutton's communications problems early in the year,

he never barked out anything to our backline, which was originally why I was debating whether i liked Edwards more for the start...

if you want to get technical about it: 75% sutts, 25% Freemans fault...

technically if you commit yourself to come out, you have to:

a - Not hesitate in the least (Sutton hesitated)
b - be positive that you will get a touch (grab OR punch) on the ball before your BACKTRACKING DEFENDER....

With that in mind, freemen needs to know when u head it back you either go to ones side (cross-crease) or another...
...he had the right idea by getting it up high (ensuring Sutton could get hand on it) but wrong idea in his direction of the ball (anywhere near net)

Personally, thinking what i'd do INSTICTUALLY, i probably wouldhve swung it cross-crease....

...whether that wouldhve been the right call or not (striker getting a head to it before sutton would get hand to it) remains to be seen

on a sidenote:
overall, im pleased with freeman, and that back-line....

Tyronne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeman >> James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Velez>>>> Harmse

[profit89]

Sutton is not a good communicator. This is true.

[bignickel]

guys forget Freeman...........Jarrod Smith should have blame on him he must look BEFORE PASSING!!!! Blind passes all the time

forget freeman for blind heading (in the box) but blame smith for blind passing?
a defender should never, ever head backwards, especially blindly.
doesn't matter where sutton was freeman deserves to be criticized.

[Cambridge_Red]

I watched the match on TV and I can say with some certainty that Sutton did not call for it but instead just bolted out. Blaming Freeman for this is a mistake.


100% agreed

[Zidane10]

More than anything it was probably just unfamiliarity for everyone involved.

I mean the backline consisted of two players Sutton had never even seen back there before ... Harmse and Freeman.

I suppose things like this happen every now again ... but its maddening as hell. Especially during these shitty times.
Yeah. If we were at the top of the division and leading by 16 points or whatever, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. I agree with the unfamiliarity point. Not only has the team not improved at all over the course of the season, the chemistry has also gotten worse as much of the original team has left at one point or another. I mean, when Tyler Hemming leaves your club, you know your season's doomed.

[Technorgasm]

I was right behind the goal in the norht end when it happend.

Sutton didnt say Peep.

but the blame has to be with BOTH Freeman AND Sutton.

1. You have to communicate
2. distribute the ball safely
3. dont go helping the oppostion by putting a soft header towards goal


Compared to other keepers in our league, I think we are doing excellent with Sutton and Edwards. . . . .

[TFCREDNWHITE]

How this own goal can be blamed on Freeman I can't understand. Sutton should take all the blame for this one.. As usual he makes a careless give away under no pressure. And then is caught in no-man's land. I've been saying since day one Sutton is NOT mls material. Why he's starting ahead of Edwards I'll never understand. Even a twat like Dale Mitchel has enough sense not to start Sutton...

Yup, get rid of Sutton, he's got a few screws loose with all the head injuries...that clear give away was horrible!!

[Parkdale]

Freeman has been an asset to the team prior to this mistake. That is undeniable.
Key word: mistake and I'm sure everyone in the club knows it.

[Tintin]

Freeman has been an asset to the team prior to this mistake. That is undeniable.
Key word: mistake and I'm sure everyone in the club knows it.

I agree but he may not even be a mistake by Freeman. Sutton did what a goalie can't do, he was in no man land. And if he did not call for the ball, it's even worse. he hesitated on that play and he shares AT LEAST half the blame with Freeman.

I like Freeman but I think he was more affective on the wing as a mid compare to playing D.

[tfc2007]

it was just a mistake.
those happen sometimes.