Is ProZone Hurting or Helping?

[James17930]

This is just a thought -- not even a fully-formed theory, just something I'm throwing out there to see what everyone has to say about it.

The last game we played really well in was the 3 -1 win against Colorado. That was also the first game that was analyzed completely afterwards by Carver and team using ProZone. Since then, well, you know the stats . . .

Could it be that the whole 'ProZone post-game procedure' has somehow affected the team? Like, they're too anxious about their stats, or, as Jloome put it in another thread:



As much technique as we have, we lack heart and cohesiveness, indicative of unhappy players, or headcases. Maybe we're cursed with a team full of thinkers, all trying too hard to be the guy who solves the problem and not just working in clockwork. I don't know. I have a hard time believing it's just Carver.

Could they be thinking too much during the game, worrying too much about positioning and tactics instead of just playing?

I'm not an expert so I'm not gonna say I know one way or the other.

What do you guys think?

[Beach_Red]

From Bull Durham, maybe the best sports movie ever made:

"Don't think, it can only hurt the ball club."

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Dont think we know enough about the program or how the team is using hte program for it to be debateable

[Azerban]

Dont think we know enough about the program or how the team is using hte program for it to be debateable

now now if you expected people to post only about thing they are informed about, this forum would have like 12 posts

[Carter]

http://www.prozonesports.com/products_PZ3.htm

Learn about the program....

[CoachGT]

I've ben a statistician for a few sports teams and kept records of many things. Most of my information was passed along to the coaching staff, who analyzed the material and would decide upon courses of action for upcoming practices. Rarely was any of the statistical information used directly with the players, and most of the stuff that was used with players was positive (for individuals) or indicated team trends. Trends from the statistics might be used to help isolate specific situations which would then get shown to the players in game tapes so that they could see the result.

On many of the teams I worked with players were not given the statistics other than that which was publicly available because it has a tendancy to drive the players to feed statistics rather than play together as a team. But I'd be very surprised if that was the case here. My guess would be that some of our players would be used to far greater public technical analysis and pressure through the media (in the UK and central america) than we receive here.

[Suds]

The program is a tool that gathers data about the game and players. How that data is then interpreted and used is all together different.

Someone could have the best data available, but if they don't know how to understand what that data is showing or how to use it effectively, then it really does not matter what tool or system is used.

[Lucky Strike]

Funny, I was just thinking about all of this last week. Like it's been said, we don't enough to say for sure, but personally I thought it could contribute to over-thinking and over-analyzing

[rocker]

now now if you expected people to post only about thing they are informed about, this forum would have like 12 posts

and what a great forum it would be!!!! :)

[jloome]

Hell no Rocker, it would be dull as dishwater. I'd rather have the heavy mouth breathers drive me nutty than have them all go away. For cripes sake, I've agreed with Giambac twice in the last week, and he's on my banned list.

It's not just a question of prozone, although it occurred to me that we should concentrate on gelling as a team before introducing potential distractions. But if you watch our play tracking back defensively, we have a whole slew of players who don't even appear to be watching the ball, every time. They're so intent on getting back into their coverage zone that they're not watching the play break down -- particularly behind them in the opposite field.

AS such, our shape is easily unbalanced. Teams have been pulling us to one sideline then opening up the offensive zone by switching field quickly and leaving their faster wingers and forwards with good penetration opportunities.

To me, that's mindset. And to a lesser extent, it's the same on the offensive end. Look how often our players seem glued to one 20-yard-square patch of ground, instead of making runs into space. It's like they don't want to take a chance of being the guy who fucks up. The only guys who consistently appear willing to risk looking bad (and thus, I guess, their starting role the following week under the 'play well and play' system) are Ricketts, Jo Smith and Brennan, plus occasionally Barrett.

And the latter case is interesting. Go back and watch some of the video from his first three games: Barrett was making runs, taking on defenders, causing all kinds of problems. In the last game, I'd swear you could've tied a 15-foot shoelace to his left ankle and the other to Ruiz's right, and neither of them would've tripped over, because they left their normal field positions so infrequently.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Judging by the way we've played these last few weeks, our guys certainly aren't worrying too much about tactics...


Watching the game again on ProZone is like watching a match on Football Manager. For instance, if one of our wingers is hanging too far back or not tracking back to help defend, it's something you definitely notice on ProZone's overhead view but you might not pay attention to during the match. If your back line is all over the place, ProZone points that out as well. And if your team isn't keeping its shape, a problem we seem to be plagued with, you notice that as well. While you can't make ProZone the be-all and end-all of your training and match day preparations, it certainly does help.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

This is just a thought -- not even a fully-formed theory, just something I'm throwing out there to see what everyone has to say about it.

The last game we played really well in was the 3 -1 win against Colorado. That was also the first game that was analyzed completely afterwards by Carver and team using ProZone. Since then, well, you know the stats . . .

Could it be that the whole 'ProZone post-game procedure' has somehow affected the team? Like, they're too anxious about their stats, or, as Jloome put it in another thread:



Could they be thinking too much during the game, worrying too much about positioning and tactics instead of just playing?

I'm not an expert so I'm not gonna say I know one way or the other.

What do you guys think?

I think Soccer is a sport you can;t predict using stats.... there are parts of the game that are uncontrollable and a player may touch the least number of balls on the field but might be the men of the match.

Plus i think upsets happen way more in soccer than anyotyher sports.

This is not baseball, that is why i desagree with some stats specially the goaltender one's. Even buffon would have had a shity goal against average with our defence...

[trane]

Hell no Rocker, it would be dull as dishwater. I'd rather have the heavy mouth breathers drive me nutty than have them all go away. For cripes sake, I've agreed with Giambac twice in the last week, and he's on my banned list.

It's not just a question of prozone, although it occurred to me that we should concentrate on gelling as a team before introducing potential distractions. But if you watch our play tracking back defensively, we have a whole slew of players who don't even appear to be watching the ball, every time. They're so intent on getting back into their coverage zone that they're not watching the play break down -- particularly behind them in the opposite field.

AS such, our shape is easily unbalanced. Teams have been pulling us to one sideline then opening up the offensive zone by switching field quickly and leaving their faster wingers and forwards with good penetration opportunities.

To me, that's mindset. And to a lesser extent, it's the same on the offensive end. Look how often our players seem glued to one 20-yard-square patch of ground, instead of making runs into space. It's like they don't want to take a chance of being the guy who fucks up. The only guys who consistently appear willing to risk looking bad (and thus, I guess, their starting role the following week under the 'play well and play' system) are Ricketts, Jo Smith and Brennan, plus occasionally Barrett.

And the latter case is interesting. Go back and watch some of the video from his first three games: Barrett was making runs, taking on defenders, causing all kinds of problems. In the last game, I'd swear you could've tied a 15-foot shoelace to his left ankle and the other to Ruiz's right, and neither of them would've tripped over, because they left their normal field positions so infrequently.

Again you see what I see, and we have talked about similar things for over one month. Carver must see it too, and yet it is not getting better. I realy want to know what the problem is. Are they not listening? Are they simply to old and too unschooled in basic footy tactitics? What is it?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Prozone is ABSOLUTELY NOT the problem!!! Prozone has the ability to expose what the real problem is, which is our players are shit.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

^^ Also Carver has the ability to expose the same problem...Our players are shit! Plain and Simple...

[AL-MO]

Inciteful posts.

[netsan]

I would trade Prozone for a field of grass.

[LucaGol]

ProZone is only a tool.

If you use it correctly, it can be beneficial.

Use it incorrectly, and well ...

[James17930]

I just find it interesting that we started tanking right after we began using the system.

So that's why I'm asking, is it just coincidence, or is there a connection?

[FluSH]

I would trade Prozone for a field of grass.


yup...

Anyday

[CoachGT]

I just find it interesting that we started tanking right after we began using the system.

So that's why I'm asking, is it just coincidence, or is there a connection?

Is that when it started to be used, or just when it was announced that it was being used. I spoke with Paul Winsper about it in Charleston. He described it to me and that they were looking to have it in place for the opening game. I don't know that they did, but that was the plan.