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View Full Version : SAN JOSE VS Toronto FC



togetherness
09-25-2008, 09:17 AM
I always here the comments about we are a new team , we need time to get things organized .. It will hapen , 5 year plan all that jazz..

Fact of the Matter ... Two years in basement , two years of unispired play and two years of no playoffs..

interesting that a first year team might make the playoffs.
what is TFC doing wrong ?? I do not know but I sense its almost accpetable to lose in the MLSE world ..after all look within there structure ,evidence is around.

rocker
09-25-2008, 09:20 AM
what is TFC doing wrong ??

while we're at it, what is LA, FCD, RSL and KC doing wrong too... ;)
all of those teams have fewer excuses than we do.
LA is tied with a first year expansion team. Dallas is only 1 point up on SJ.

What if San Jose makes the playoffs and the storied DC United don't???? ;)

San Jose is helped by having O'Brien and Huckerby, two players we had/could have had if they wanted to be here.

Don Julio
09-25-2008, 09:28 AM
How about this: Why can players score as soon as they leave for another team?

togetherness
09-25-2008, 09:33 AM
well Cunny was the devil here but seemed to find the net in FCD ..

something is Off or fishy

Beach_Red
09-25-2008, 09:35 AM
what is TFC doing wrong ??

Oh, lots of things, I'm sure. Like lots ofother teams.

When it comes to MLSE, though, it's not like they went looking to get into soccer, is it? I mean, they only got involved in MLS when the offer was so good they really didn't need to risk very much at all.

And it's not like anyone else in this town stepped up to bring a franchise here, and it's not like the fans here supported the Lynx.

So... that got us to here. Now, though, this league is really starting to move to the next level and MLSE sees the profit potential in soccer. They'll try and maximize those profits and in soccer that means winning so you'll see some big improvements in the next few years. MLSE will never be league leaders in investment, but they're never at the bottom when it comes to upgrading their facilities, either.

Hey, we're just lucky they got in when they did because at $40 million for an expansion team now, no one in Toronto would be bringing a team here.

And about San Jose - let's see if they can keep their team this time, or if this one will move away, too.

ben_vw
09-25-2008, 10:14 AM
One thing that we have to take note of is that we are in a much better position than San Jose when it comes to building for the future.

Aside from maybe Shea Salinas, Ryan Johnson, and Arturo Alvarez, the rest of their main contributors are in their prime now (O'Brien, Sealy, Corrales, Cochrane) or at the backend of their careers (Huckerby, Lima). Remember, we have their first round draft pick in 2009 as well.

When you look at Nana, Rosenlund, Johann Smith, Ibee Ibrahim, Wynne, Barrett, Gaudet, and the fact that we have 3 first round draft picks, I think we're sitting pretty nicely looking down the road.

That said, I would like immediate success as much as the next guy.

Jay P
09-25-2008, 10:19 AM
cunny is working with a coach that helped him win the golden boot in 06


SJ needs to win now because even though they are the quakes 2.0 i guess yallop feels he's gotta win now, being a team that had won 2 mls cups.

anyways that being said, looks like management has a long term plan.. so i'll trust em.
despite a lot of people not agreeing with mr johnston.

togetherness
09-25-2008, 10:31 AM
One thing that we have to take note of is that we are in a much better position than San Jose when it comes to building for the future.

Aside from maybe Shea Salinas, Ryan Johnson, and Arturo Alvarez, the rest of their main contributors are in their prime now (O'Brien, Sealy, Corrales, Cochrane) or at the backend of their careers (Huckerby, Lima). Remember, we have their first round draft pick in 2009 as well.

When you look at Nana, Rosenlund, Johann Smith, Ibee Ibrahim, Wynne, Barrett, Gaudet, and the fact that we have 3 first round draft picks, I think we're sitting pretty nicely looking down the road.

That said, I would like immediate success as much as the next guy.

All very very good points..
I guess its just hard some times watching all the time with out some happy endings..

london_tfc_fan
09-25-2008, 10:38 AM
the number of canadian kids playing for us is unacceptable, canadians/ricketts and dichio will try harder for a Canadian team its as simple as that! think of what you would be willing to do for your club!!! and i also see the eastern conference as a hell of a lot better than the west!!!!!!:canada:

olegunnar
09-25-2008, 10:47 AM
LA is tied with a first year expansion team. Dallas is only 1 point up on SJ.



LA and Dallas have both made mid season coaching and management changes because their poor results were deemed unacceptable.

Meanwhile in Toronto nothing happens, losing seems to be acceptable.

The worst thing is, instead of a commitment to winning, all we get is insulting hollow promises (DP, grass etc.).

Has anyone from TFC ever said winning matters? All we get is, "I've got a few things on the go" "I want 1 defender 1 left side player and 1 striker" or "I'm talking to a few clubs"

Screw that. Win.

The closest we get to winning matters is the old kiss ass line "our fans deserve a winner" Ohh they want to win for us...that's swell. They obviously don't want to win for themselves, it shows. Rent a players and players biding their time until they get moved to a better situation. That's all what we get.

In my opinion that's why we can't get 11 guys to work and commit to playing hard, since we don't have 11 guys who's hearts in it.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-25-2008, 10:58 AM
Thats because our coaching staff has been here since Feb, and was successful for the first half/first 3rd (whichever)

Dallas had their coach for several years (was .500 so the change was a bit hasty imo) and LA's FO said if you dont get to the finals (HA! with that team?), youre all gone (Lalas has always been a failure, serves em right).

Big diff between all 3 teams

tfc
09-25-2008, 11:02 AM
LA and Dallas have both made mid season coaching and management changes because their poor results were deemed unacceptable.

Meanwhile in Toronto nothing happens, losing seems to be acceptable.

The worst thing is, instead of a commitment to winning, all we get is insulting hollow promises (DP, grass etc.).

Has anyone from TFC ever said winning matters? All we get is, "I've got a few things on the go" "I want 1 defender 1 left side player and 1 striker" or "I'm talking to a few clubs"

Screw that. Win.

The closest we get to winning matters is the old kiss ass line "our fans deserve a winner" Ohh they want to win for us...that's swell. They obviously don't want to win for themselves, it shows. Rent a players and players biding their time until they get moved to a better situation. That's all what we get.

In my opinion that's why we can't get 11 guys to work and commit to playing hard, since we don't have 11 guys who's hearts in it.


I love the cynical view people here take, MLSE OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to make a good team, neither does Mo or Carver, that would just be against everything they believe in - fight the man, guys, we are victims of the capitalist game! :rolleyes:

common, lets be serious, this is our SECOND year in a five year plan... we are getting starting 11 players that will do well with the team for years to come, we are developing players that are leaving for international and european stages, and we have coaches with some of the best training and experience in the world ... the only issue people have are our results, which you HAVE to admit, are directly linked to international absences. Don't blame this on Mo for signing some of the best international players he can, blame it on the league for having such a f*cked up schedule.

if we had a full team for the whole year, we would be mid to top of the table, easily.

Barbarez
09-25-2008, 11:09 AM
I love the cynical view people here take, MLSE OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to make a good team, neither does Mo or Carver, that would just be against everything they believe in - fight the man, guys, we are victims of the capitalist game! :rolleyes:

common, lets be serious, this is our SECOND year in a five year plan... we are getting starting 11 players that will do well with the team for years to come, we are developing players that are leaving for international and european stages, and we have coaches with some of the best training and experience in the world ... the only issue people have are our results, which you HAVE to admit, are directly linked to international absences. Don't blame this on Mo for signing some of the best international players he can, blame it on the league for having such a f*cked up schedule.

if we had a full team for the whole year, we would be mid to top of the table, easily.

Are you fucking blind?????
MLS quality is shit. Our players are shit. Ok I'll give you Edu, left for the Rangers has he played a minute yet?
brennan is garbage, sutton is garbage why do you think Canada cant beat a silly team like Honduras??
Coaches with some of the best training and experience in the WORLD??? Are you delusional?? ratarded?? Have you ever watched a football match outside of MLS? Holy fuck, people like you are the reason our FO can do w/e it feels like and still make money.
Mos latest acquirement Ruiz, who was garbage and injury prone before we got him, guess what happened???????? injured after 1 game, probably gone forever. What a fucking waste Mo, keep it up, you're one of the best in the world.

togetherness
09-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Are you fucking blind?????
MLS quality is shit. Our players are shit. Ok I'll give you Edu, left for the Rangers has he played a minute yet?
brennan is garbage, sutton is garbage why do you think Canada cant beat a silly team like Honduras??
Coaches with some of the best training and experience in the WORLD??? Are you delusional?? ratarded?? Have you ever watched a football match outside of MLS? Holy fuck, people like you are the reason our FO can do w/e it feels like and still make money.
Mos latest acquirement Ruiz, who was garbage and injury prone before we got him, guess what happened???????? injured after 1 game, probably gone forever. What a fucking waste Mo, keep it up, you're one of the best in the world.


Thank You .. The MLS quality is garbarge pure garbage compared to almost all other pro leagues..
I think there is a lot of Dummies blindly following the "reds" that name is stolen too..btw

invictusTFC
09-25-2008, 11:32 AM
while we're at it, what is LA, FCD, RSL and KC doing wrong too... ;)
all of those teams have fewer excuses than we do.
LA is tied with a first year expansion team. Dallas is only 1 point up on SJ.

What if San Jose makes the playoffs and the storied DC United don't???? ;)

San Jose is helped by having O'Brien and Huckerby, two players we had/could have had if they wanted to be here.

I for one am not a fan of LA, FCD, RSL or KC, so I don't give a shit about whats wrong with them. What matters to me is TFC, and I'm not going to buy into this "we're a second year franchise" or "look at the other teams" nonsense. I'm disappointed with this season's results. Period! We shoul've done better. We had enough quality to be a playoff contender, but the team simply did not show that on the field.
There is no evidence to suggest that either O'Brien, Huckerby or both would've made any difference on this team. We can only assume based on their performance in SJ, but how can anybody guarantee that they'd be effective within our system. Some may argue that we have players with similar pedigree i.e. Guevara and Ricketts who simply failed to elevate their game down the stretch.
Whats more frustrating is that this team demonstrated at the beginning of the season that they can play some solid football. What happened? Why did we spiral so far down the standings? There is something wrong with this team. I'm not sure what it is, but its not as simple as lack of a scorer or a plastic pitch. Many can argue that our new strikers haven't been getting good service, the team is out of sync. Others can point to the success of NER who also play on a plastic pitch.

AL-MO
09-25-2008, 11:34 AM
[quote]common, lets be serious, this is our SECOND year in a five year plan...Do you seriously believe this?


we are getting starting 11 players that will do well with the team for years to come, we are developing players that are leaving for international and european stages,We haven't developed SHIT. Drafting a player and having him play with you for a year and a half is NOT developing players.


and we have coaches with some of the best training and experience in the worldAre you serious? Aside of Paul Winspar (who has done a great job keeping the team fit) where is this World Class coaching and training you speak of? last time I check Carver came from Luton a lower division english side.


... the only issue people have are our results, which you HAVE to admit, are directly linked to international absences. Don't blame this on Mo for signing some of the best international players he can, blame it on the league for having such a f*cked up schedule. When you take on a job, should you not know the scenario you have to deal with? MLS not following FIFA dates is not a secret, so why would you load up on Internationals who frequently get capped by their country?

AL-MO
09-25-2008, 11:35 AM
Thank You .. The MLS quality is garbarge pure garbage compared to almost all other pro leagues..
I think there is a lot of Dummies blindly following the "reds" that name is stolen too..btw

Yeah thanks. Like we didn't know that already. :rolleyes:

Oldtimer
09-25-2008, 11:37 AM
Thank You .. The MLS quality is garbarge pure garbage compared to almost all other pro leagues..
I think there is a lot of Dummies blindly following the "reds" that name is stolen too..btw

So why are you wasting time on this board? Because you like trolling????

Barbarez
09-25-2008, 11:39 AM
So why are you wasting time on this board? Because you like trolling????

What? You're saying MLS quality is not garbage? Get the fuck outta here, we follow TFC because Toronto is our city. I could care less for MO and company.

Fort York Redcoat
09-25-2008, 12:13 PM
Paul Winsper is keeping them fit. Carver ,whatever your complaints, should motivate. The players, down to a man, have shown sparks and then inconsistency. But garbage? The team built is one that, on paper, should be able to win games in this league. Most of the acquistions, when acquired made some sense at the time. I'd call the scheduling of MLS garbage but I won't say that Mo should bring in less established ie less capped talent to avoid international duty. That's on the leagues head.

REDPATCHGRL74
09-25-2008, 12:25 PM
while we're at it, what is LA, FCD, RSL and KC doing wrong too... ;)
all of those teams have fewer excuses than we do.
LA is tied with a first year expansion team. Dallas is only 1 point up on SJ.

What if San Jose makes the playoffs and the storied DC United don't???? ;)

San Jose is helped by having O'Brien and Huckerby, two players we had/could have had if they wanted to be here.

Are those the teams that we should set our standard by?

tfc
09-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Paul Winsper is keeping them fit. Carver ,whatever your complaints, should motivate. The players, down to a man, have shown sparks and then inconsistency. But garbage? The team built is one that, on paper, should be able to win games in this league. Most of the acquistions, when acquired made some sense at the time. I'd call the scheduling of MLS garbage but I won't say that Mo should bring in less established ie less capped talent to avoid international duty. That's on the leagues head.

thank you. the #1 issue with this team is inconsistency, which, I believe, stems from scheduling conflicts. Hopefully the league fixes this issue in the off season.

Fort York Redcoat
09-25-2008, 12:45 PM
For the most part but before a certain someone runs with it I'll say that Carver did make changes to the starting XI before the conflicts in question. He did contribute to the lack of consistency in the line up which leads to less jelling (gelling?) on the field.

REDPATCHGRL74
09-25-2008, 12:47 PM
One thing that we have to take note of is that we are in a much better position than San Jose when it comes to building for the future.

Aside from maybe Shea Salinas, Ryan Johnson, and Arturo Alvarez, the rest of their main contributors are in their prime now (O'Brien, Sealy, Corrales, Cochrane) or at the backend of their careers (Huckerby, Lima). Remember, we have their first round draft pick in 2009 as well.

When you look at Nana, Rosenlund, Johann Smith, Ibee Ibrahim, Wynne, Barrett, Gaudet, and the fact that we have 3 first round draft picks, I think we're sitting pretty nicely looking down the road.

That said, I would like immediate success as much as the next guy.

The turnover rate in this league does not allow for building for the future. Majority of the teams look completely different every 2 years. It seems to me that this league runs in 2 year cycles, so a 5 year plan just doesn't fit the model. You never know who will opt for an opportunity overseas, so you really can't expect who will be here on a year to year basis. As far as draft picks go.These players don't seem to be ready to step in. The talent pool from the NCAA is not what it is for the other major sports, so the draft picks really don't excite me all that much. These teams are built from having good scouting who can find players around the world. Example, last night on Goltv I was watching Millionarios vs Nacional and one of the players playing for Nacional was discovered by them while he was playing for Portugal FC in the CPSL, imagine that someone playing in the same city was discovered by a Columbian team.

tfc
09-25-2008, 01:16 PM
For the most part but before a certain someone runs with it I'll say that Carver did make changes to the starting XI before the conflicts in question. He did contribute to the lack of consistency in the line up which leads to less jelling (gelling?) on the field.

yes, very true. definitely not the depth he had been used to/expecting, i guess.

Jack
09-25-2008, 01:41 PM
TDOT O FC?

Lame.

invictusTFC
09-25-2008, 01:48 PM
thank you. the #1 issue with this team is inconsistency, which, I believe, stems from scheduling conflicts. Hopefully the league fixes this issue in the off season.

Blaming it simply on the International dates is oversimplifying the problem. How many games did this team play with the core of the team in tact? How many of those games did we win?

The International dates certainly didn't help us during those weeks, but our last victory was achieved when many regulars were away on int'l duty.

Blaming our futility simply on the leagues failure to adhere to FIFA dates is irresponsible. You might as well blame it on the field turf or the players we couldn't sign. ;)

Fort York Redcoat
09-25-2008, 02:10 PM
It's irresponsible to not read surrounding posts.:)

Ohhhhhhhhhhh Tdot O we love you:D

togetherness
09-25-2008, 02:11 PM
TDOT O FC?

Lame.


How is it Lame ??

I wish people wouldn't change the name of the thread ..its not offensive or anything..

Jack
09-25-2008, 02:20 PM
How is it Lame ??

I wish people wouldn't change the name of the thread ..its not offensive or anything..
What is TDOT O FC? There is no such place as TDOT. Toronto is a city.

That, plus the fact that this same debate has already taken place in countless other threads...

Let's see:

Mo and Carver suck and need to be fired? Check
San Jose is an expansion team and are better than us? Check
MLS is a shit league? Check
Barbarez having an argument? Check
Thread closed? Check (as of now)