If we run the table are we in the playoffs? [Archive]

Super

09-21-2008, 10:29 PM

It's good to stay optimistic, but with just one win in the last 13 games it's a little naive to believe that we can win the last 5 games straight. We needed to win the game against Kansas, and what did we see? A team that seemed to not care. I doubt they'll be more motivated in the last 5 games ALL of which we need to win. We'll need all the luck in the world to make the play-offs at this point.

RedsYNWA

09-21-2008, 10:36 PM

I just don't see our boys sucking the big one at home next week...we are due

Markham_RPB

09-21-2008, 10:38 PM

It's great to be optomistic , but at the same time we have to be realistic. If the performance on Saturday night vs the Wizards' is any of their indiction of their care and desire to win , the last 4 games will be a joke !

RedsYNWA

09-21-2008, 10:42 PM

I will not except being eliminated from contention at home, and if my team does I will boo my throat out next week....lets have some pride, we are better than last year, lets not lie down dead yet

VPjr

09-21-2008, 11:56 PM

I will not except being eliminated from contention at home, and if my team does I will boo my throat out next week....lets have some pride, we are better than last year, lets not lie down dead yet

Its great that you are such a strong believer in this team's ability but this team is NOT better than last year.

Compared to the rest of the league (which is the only way a team should be judged) we are just as bad this year as last and TFC are, hands down, the worst team in the league presently. They are worse than the newest Expansion Team (wasn't that our excuse for being the worst team in the league last year) and while many teams have tangibly improved and are playing a decent brand of soccer, our team is totally unwatchable. So much for being the best supporters in the league...clearly the players don't value it the way the supporters believe they should.

Sincle Mid-July, everytime this team takes the field, a loss is what I expect, a tie would be nice and a win doesn't even cross my mind (which is why I was so utterly speechless when they pulled out that 1-0 win in Colorado).

the season is over pal...sorry. In fact, the season ended, for all intents and purposes, when they tied Impact 1-1 back in July. Since then, this team has been utterly listless most of the time. I really wonder how they look at themselves in the mirror (from management on down to the players). Robinson goes on the radio, talks about how they have to fight hard in KC to give themselves a shot at the playoffs and they totally shit the bed for 90 minutes. the team is a disgrace and dont deserve the support they get.

J .

09-22-2008, 12:47 AM

The team lacks leadership and while on paper we should be competitive, we are not. Maybe Carver lost the room or what not, but since I moved out of Toronto we have only won two games.... So its my fault.

If the team wins all its games and the other teams crash, we can make it.

VPjr

09-22-2008, 01:14 AM

If the team wins all its games and the other teams crash, we can make it.

If I pick the right 6 numbers in the Lotto649, I could be a millionaire 20 times over....the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of TFC making the playoffs.

J .

09-22-2008, 01:18 AM

Didnt say the odds were good, but some people do win the lotto.

Have faith.

VPjr

09-22-2008, 01:46 AM

Didnt say the odds were good, but some people do win the lotto.

Have faith.

faith in what? I'm an aetheist but I think there is a greater liklihood that god exists than I think TFC has a hope of making the playoffs this season.

c'mon man...Koolaid's bad for you. stop drinking it.

Shakes McQueen

09-22-2008, 03:15 AM

faith in what? I'm an aetheist but I think there is a greater liklihood that god exists than I think TFC has a hope of making the playoffs this season.

c'mon man...Koolaid's bad for you. stop drinking it.

They aren't eliminated, mathematically. This guy is choosing to hold out hope that the unlikely might still happen.

And until they are eliminated, I think it's hostile to call him a Koolaid drinker. That isn't being a sheep, it's being a sports fan.

It's the same thing that happened when the Blue Jays went on their 11 game tear recently, despite the steep odds for them getting in to the playoffs. That is what fans do - they hope, regardless of what the odds might be.

This is the kind of stuff RPB's keep talking about. Negativity thrives here, but when one person tries to hold some semblance of optimism on a SUPPORTERS FORUM, he gets antagonized. The inmates run the asylum.

- Scott

LucaGol

09-22-2008, 06:27 AM

Negativity .... reality .... whatever you want to call it ....

Shakes McQueen

09-22-2008, 07:28 AM

Negativity .... reality .... whatever you want to call it ....

He hasn't deluded himself into thinking it's probable. He just doesn't think it's completely impossible. And mathematically, it isn't yet.

- Scott

BuSaPuNk

09-22-2008, 08:20 AM

He hasn't deluded himself into thinking it's probable. He just doesn't think it's completely impossible. And mathematically, it isn't yet.

- Scott

Ahmen to that. Listen until there eliminated for sure you should support this team. Even when there out of the playoffs we can atleast hope to win some games and be part of the playoffs by making other teams suffer.

I agree this is the kind of stuff that everyone is getting so frustrated with. We are the supporters group for Toronto FC. Win, Lose, or draw we will be there for them. Singing, Dancing, Chanting! If you can't live with that then obviously you are in the wrong place.

I am Red, are you?

olegunnar

09-22-2008, 08:34 AM

This is the kind of stuff RPB's keep talking about. Negativity thrives here, but when one person tries to hold some semblance of optimism on a SUPPORTERS FORUM, he gets antagonized. The inmates run the asylum.

- Scott

If people think support means binge drinking and hanging out with their internet friends then that's their perogative.

At the same time though they need to understand that there is a segment of supporters that are actually there for the soccer (I know! what a concept!), and for the club. Those people are pissed because the people running the club aren't doing their job, nor are the players.

To say negativity= lack of support is a naive and self serving lie.

I'd argue those sticking their heads in the sand are the "supporters" that need to take a look in the mirror. What are "you" supporting?

I support TFC. From my perspective the management and players are doing TFC a disservice.

stugautz

09-22-2008, 08:38 AM

Can we focus on the smaller goals, like scoring more goals than the opposition?

Razor

09-22-2008, 08:47 AM

we suck and we're not going to make the playoffs. end of.

if you think we are, i'd like to have whatever you are smoking.

Carts

09-22-2008, 08:53 AM

If I win the lottery, will I be rich...???

Doesn't matter, because like us running the table - its not gonna happen...

Carts...

Psycho-Kid

09-22-2008, 09:16 AM

Can we focus on the smaller goals, like scoring more goals than the opposition?

i agree we need to focus on the smaller things which will lead us to Bigger things think of Toronto Fc as your Kid All we can really do right now is Guide it in the right direction but once it is older then we can start acheiving goals it takes time to Build a team Toronto Fc will always have my support no matter the outcome

rocker

09-22-2008, 09:18 AM

Its great that you are such a strong believer in this team's ability but this team is NOT better than last year.
.

The stats say otherwise.
in all objective measurements this team is better than last year (goals against overall, points, home record, road record, road GD), which is what RedsYNWA said. He didn't said "massively better" but "better". Unless we're gonna get into a Bill Clinton-esque argument of what "better" means ;)

even if you use the "relative to the league" argument, it's still better, because TFC are extremely close to 5 other teams, when last year TFC were not.

I know we suck, but let's not start avoiding the statistical facts in some sort of irrational way.
The team has improved from last year according to the numbers -- FACT.

If that's not enough for people, then that's perfectly fine. We all have different expectations.
I'm actually gonna whip out the contest thread I started before the season, where we all made predictions. TFC is only 2 wins away from my own season starting prediction, which is why I'm not a raving maniac these days. They've pretty much done what i expected.

VPjr

09-22-2008, 12:52 PM

I am Red, are you?

I'm actually quite pale these days....I need a tan. If you're Red, I'd suggest SPF30. You don't want the skin cancer...it's a bitch.

In all seriousness, I'm not a sheep...I don't blindly follow. Last I checked, TFC ain't a cult (or maybe it is). I'm free to speak my mind, and I will. I'm glad others are doing the same.

Negativity reigns because its warranted. I could care less if there are people who don't like it. There is nothing positive to take from this season, other than MAYBE, ONE DAY, we'll get grass after selling off Mo Edu. MAYBE...ONE DAY...JUST NOT NEXT YEAR.

Supporters that dont demand better from their club are destined to many more years of this type of crap. I, for one, will demand better and I will not stop criticizing the club until there comes a day when there is no need to criticize them.

BTW, I like the parallel you try to draw with the Jays. Notice how the Jays started playing well soon after their new (old) manager with lots of experience came back to town to replace the younger, brash, hot tempered guy who had never managed at the highest level before he got the Jays job and likely never will.

JC=John Gibbons.
MoJo=an evil cross between JFJ and JP Ricciardi.

When is TFC going to get its version of Cito? Of course, that is not to say that Cito is the perfect manager (there are likely better) but when your team is lacking in talent and depth, you need experienced professionals running your team, not untested wannabes, because they find ways to get more from their players.

trane

09-22-2008, 12:56 PM

Can we focus on the smaller goals, like scoring more goals than the opposition?

I am all for that. Someone sumarized the problem, we have trouble scoring two in any game, and have no trouble letting two in particularly on the road. Lets work on either or both sides of this formula and then we may be able to win one. We can go from there.

ensco

09-22-2008, 12:58 PM

Yes, if we go 5-0-0, we are in
If we go 4 wins and a loss, it's only a 40% chance
Overall we have a 4.8% chance of getting in
Here's some optimism - these are MUCH better odds than the lottery

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS/East/TorontoFC.html

Brooker

09-22-2008, 01:12 PM

Supporters that dont demand better from their club are destined to many more years of this type of crap. I, for one, will demand better and I will not stop criticizing the club until there comes a day when there is no need to criticize them.

well okay. you write a few paragraphs complaining on a message board, and probably do a little bit of bitching with your friends on game day... but does that really change anything? or influence any kind of decision making from anybody with the slightest bit of power? demanding change behind a computer screen or at the pub does nothing. or are you ACTUALLY doing something?

i'm not pleased at all with toronto fc these last few months. not one bit. but getting worked up, frustrated and talking about it all the time just doesnt work for me. i'd be even more annoyed at this season. i just think things could be a lot worse. we could have less wins than last season? ouch. now that would suck.

i didnt expect the playoffs this year. but maybe you did. is that the difference?

v00d00daddy

09-22-2008, 01:14 PM

They aren't eliminated, mathematically. This guy is choosing to hold out hope that the unlikely might still happen.

And until they are eliminated, I think it's hostile to call him a Koolaid drinker. That isn't being a sheep, it's being a sports fan.

It's the same thing that happened when the Blue Jays went on their 11 game tear recently, despite the steep odds for them getting in to the playoffs. That is what fans do - they hope, regardless of what the odds might be.

This is the kind of stuff RPB's keep talking about. Negativity thrives here, but when one person tries to hold some semblance of optimism on a SUPPORTERS FORUM, he gets antagonized. The inmates run the asylum.

- Scott

Dude...you really love to cause shit, don't you? Wow. You don't like people antagonzing one another and then you come and call people inmates of the asylum and question whether or not they are supporters. Nice.

If you think they can make the playoffs then state your reasons. You're the one who hates it when these threads become pissing matches, and now you're the one starting the pissing match.

VPjr

09-22-2008, 01:24 PM

At the same time though they need to understand that there is a segment of supporters that are actually there for the soccer (I know! what a concept!), and for the club. Those people are pissed because the people running the club aren't doing their job, nor are the players.

To say negativity= lack of support is a naive and self serving lie.

THANK YOU.

While I enjoy the singing and chanting, as well as hanging out before and after games and getting to know the people who support the club, my #1 priority is the soccer.

I care deeply about wanting to watch good soccer, played by smart soccer players, managed by top shelf soccer professionals. You don't need to be in a league for 10 years to have those things. I never expected this team to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season. Based on what was done in the run up to the pre-season, I had very low expectations for the club and yet, they somehow managed to fail to meet them.

v00d00daddy

09-22-2008, 01:25 PM

well okay. you write a few paragraphs complaining on a message board, and probably do a little bit of bitching with your friends on game day... but does that really change anything? or influence any kind of decision making from anybody with the slightest bit of power? demanding change behind a computer screen or at the pub does nothing. or are you ACTUALLY doing something?

Yes it does something. Especially when it is a group effort and the team and management know that we won't tolerate this shit anymore.

Let me try your logic out for a second here.

Okay. You write a few chants and sing them all game long. The team continues to stink it up but you say screw it, I'm gonna support this behaviour anyway. You sing even louder and demand that everybody else do the same. Does that change anything? Does your undying support spur the team on to play better and reward the supporters for their hard work?

Nope. It hasn't worked. Now some people are suggesting we do something else and it's getting treated as treason. It's a shame.

sidney

09-22-2008, 01:43 PM

What would Tiger Williams say? "We're ...... ...... .. ....." fill-in the blanks

trane

09-22-2008, 01:46 PM

If people think support means binge drinking and hanging out with their internet friends then that's their perogative.

At the same time though they need to understand that there is a segment of supporters that are actually there for the soccer (I know! what a concept!), and for the club. Those people are pissed because the people running the club aren't doing their job, nor are the players.

To say negativity= lack of support is a naive and self serving lie.

I'd argue those sticking their heads in the sand are the "supporters" that need to take a look in the mirror. What are "you" supporting?

I support TFC. From my perspective the management and players are doing TFC a disservice.

You hit the nail on the head. I do not give a shit about having a good time at the game. I want to push the team to victories. I will not sit back having a good time while my club is complete SHITE.

GhostPK

09-22-2008, 04:10 PM

Its great that you are such a strong believer in this team's ability but this team is NOT better than last year.

Compared to the rest of the league (which is the only way a team should be judged) we are just as bad this year as last and TFC are, hands down, the worst team in the league presently. They are worse than the newest Expansion Team (wasn't that our excuse for being the worst team in the league last year) and while many teams have tangibly improved and are playing a decent brand of soccer, our team is totally unwatchable. So much for being the best supporters in the league...clearly the players don't value it the way the supporters believe they should.

Sincle Mid-July, everytime this team takes the field, a loss is what I expect, a tie would be nice and a win doesn't even cross my mind (which is why I was so utterly speechless when they pulled out that 1-0 win in Colorado).

the season is over pal...sorry. In fact, the season ended, for all intents and purposes, when they tied Impact 1-1 back in July. Since then, this team has been utterly listless most of the time. I really wonder how they look at themselves in the mirror (from management on down to the players). Robinson goes on the radio, talks about how they have to fight hard in KC to give themselves a shot at the playoffs and they totally shit the bed for 90 minutes. the team is a disgrace and dont deserve the support they get.

We've played like shite since we lost to Vancouver WhiteCraps at BMO. I haven't seen decent play since then.

As far as possibly making it to the playoffs.... The bluegays won 10 in a row... but they also play baseball. Seasons over boys... lets start planning for next season.

Stfran168

09-22-2008, 04:10 PM

That is what fans do - they hope, regardless of what the odds might be.

- Scott
Amen to that

GhostPK

09-22-2008, 04:29 PM

Hey... all Supporters grieve differently. Some waste money on the lotto in hopes of winning... others invest their "lotto" money for the future.

Im doing the latter... TFC 09 will be the differance.

Shakes McQueen

09-22-2008, 04:33 PM

Dude...you really love to cause shit, don't you? Wow. You don't like people antagonzing one another and then you come and call people inmates of the asylum and question whether or not they are supporters. Nice.

If you think they can make the playoffs then state your reasons. You're the one who hates it when these threads become pissing matches, and now you're the one starting the pissing match.

When did I question if he was a supporter? I said supporters can't even use the supporters group forum, to discuss something positive, without getting antagonized for it.

I wasn't the one calling the thread starter a "koolaid drinker", either.

- Scott

Axeman

09-22-2008, 04:33 PM

Fuck That! We ARE going to run the table! And Run Up the Score on everyone that get's in are FUCKING WAY!!!
"It's not how we win that defines us, It's how we lose"
Go Down Swinging!

GhostPK

09-22-2008, 04:35 PM

We've been going down swinging since july 9th....

Shakes McQueen

09-22-2008, 04:36 PM

Fuck That! We ARE going to run the table! And Run Up the Score on everyone that get's in are FUCKING WAY!!!
"It's not how we win that defines us, It's how we lose"
Go Down Swinging!

I think that is really unlikely, but it would be a great end to the season if we did.

Maybe if Carver gets Dichio playing a full 90 minutes again, he can reignite our offense.

- Scott

Axeman

09-22-2008, 04:40 PM

Hey LucaGol show me one fucking post of your's that isn't Fucking negative, honestly show me!
If all you do is bitch, why are you here, this is for SUPPORTERS!!!

Axeman

09-22-2008, 04:46 PM

We've been going down swinging since july 9th....
We've been going down, but not Swinging!
We need the killer instinct!
Fuck being nice and handshakes after games, Let's go after them!
You can win a boxing match with the jab, but guess what, last round you got to go for the knockout! Lets Put Dichio out to set the tone for the team! And I mean Starting!:canada:

Axeman

09-22-2008, 04:48 PM

"You Got a fight commin', And it's comming TODAY!" - Ike Clanton
You Fucking RIGHT!

GhostPK

09-22-2008, 04:51 PM

"You Got a fight commin', And it's comming TODAY!" - Ike Clanton
You Fucking RIGHT!

Now if only the players could get this fired up... we might stand a chance.

REDPATCHGRL74

09-22-2008, 07:00 PM

You hit the nail on the head. I do not give a shit about having a good time at the game. I want to push the team to victories. I will not sit back having a good time while my club is complete SHITE.

Wow, I can't believe it, finally someone who feels the same way I do and isn't afraid to say it!

RPB73

09-22-2008, 07:20 PM

Hey LucaGol show me one fucking post of your's that isn't Fucking negative, honestly show me!
If all you do is bitch, why are you here, this is for SUPPORTERS!!!

Are supporters not supposed to bitch, do we not have the right to bitch. Negative posts are brought on by a club with nothing but negative results. If there was any positives surrounding the club than we would have positive posts. I for one have a hard time finding anything positive about this club for a while now. So am I supposed to be completely oblivious to what is going on, and just be positive. I fail to see what the purpose of this would be. Now if that makes me any less of a supporter than the positive posters, so be it.

Axeman

09-22-2008, 07:48 PM

Are supporters not supposed to bitch, do we not have the right to bitch. Negative posts are brought on by a club with nothing but negative results. If there was any positives surrounding the club than we would have positive posts. I for one have a hard time finding anything positive about this club for a while now. So am I supposed to be completely oblivious to what is going on, and just be positive. I fail to see what the purpose of this would be. Now if that makes me any less of a supporter than the positive posters, so be it.

Everyone has the right to bitch, especially in rough times.
But when you come on here and all you do is whine and complain and tell people their stupid for being positive that's fucking wrong!, Fuck that Shit!
And if you fail to see how being positive can help a team, and only say good things when we win, what's the difference between that and a bandwagon jumper?

LucaGol

09-22-2008, 07:49 PM

Hey LucaGol show me one fucking post of your's that isn't Fucking negative, honestly show me!
If all you do is bitch, why are you here, this is for SUPPORTERS!!!

Sure thing ... just send me a link to the "Non-supporters, but are still supporters but called non-supporters because they live in the real world for TFC supporters Forum"

Axeman

09-22-2008, 07:52 PM

There you go with that positivity, I am still waing for the positive link by the way?

RPB73

09-22-2008, 08:46 PM

druid

09-22-2008, 08:47 PM

Everyone has the right to bitch, especially in rough times.
But when you come on here and all you do is whine and complain and tell people their stupid for being positive that's fucking wrong!, Fuck that Shit!
And if you fail to see how being positive can help a team, and only say good things when we win, what's the difference between that and a bandwagon jumper?

In our situation, being overly positive is probably more damaging to the club than being overly negative. The in "Carver we Trust" banner for example. Its possible that we've just handed a Coach, who will have delivered nothing more than last place in the league and elimination from the CL before qualifying, a contract extension. That's disastrous. And quite likely our overly optimistic support helped that happen.

I know the constant negativity can be a drag but if we don't want to wind up the worst team in the MLS for years to come we've got to do something now. And cheering the team isn't going to help.

Making MLSE understand that poor leadership and poor product are not acceptable might.

Axeman

09-22-2008, 08:51 PM

I am not saying to post good things only when we win. Losing can bring positives to a team. But really the truth is how we are losing, we look totally disorganized, confused, and what bothers me the most is the lack of passion and desperation in our team. Taking all this into consideration it is very difficult to be optimistic. BY THE WAY I AM NOT A BANDWAGON JUMPER.

Didn't mean to imply you were bud, honestly.
Just saying everyone has a right (especially here) to be positive no matter the situation and not get called naive is all.

rocker

09-22-2008, 09:18 PM

a contract extension. That's disastrous. And quite likely our overly optimistic support helped that happen.

I don't believe anything we say has any effect on that sort of thing. it's not like Mo's gonna poll the fans to see if Carver should stay. Mo seems to have liked the work Carver has done, so he'll stay regardless of whether we write a banner in support or chant against the man.

Brooker

09-22-2008, 09:23 PM

Okay. You write a few chants and sing them all game long. The team continues to stink it up but you say screw it, I'm gonna support this behaviour anyway. You sing even louder and demand that everybody else do the same. Does that change anything? Does your undying support spur the team on to play better and reward the supporters for their hard work?

Nope. It hasn't worked. Now some people are suggesting we do something else and it's getting treated as treason. It's a shame.

it's not treason. in a sense im glad that your trying to do something. key word: trying. all im saying is i'd rather not get involved in the constant frustration of complaining on here day in and day out when the bottom line is it does nothing. to me showing up and giving them undying support every other weekend and singing my heart out is actually doing SOMETHING as opposed to writing a few paragraphs on the internet so don't point your finger at me and tell me im in the wrong.

complain all u want im fine with that. we all do what we like! but when you tell people like myself that we are the reason the club will stink it up for years to come, well... that's just plain bullshit.