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Batman
09-20-2008, 08:55 PM
ugh.

go to it.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 08:57 PM
May I be the first to say that was fuckin shite, Batman?

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-20-2008, 08:57 PM
no comment...goodnight

shwade
09-20-2008, 08:58 PM
May I be the first to say that was fuckin shite, Batman?

And I'll second that.

Fergy
09-20-2008, 08:58 PM
I remember a few months ago watching a game at bmo - we'd just got rickets robert and guevara and were pinging the ball all over the place like Brazil i remeber thinking this is real football at last!
I have no idea whats changed - the team should get better with games together not worse - no major injuries or missing players (apart from the intrernational games) I just cant figure how we have got worse over the course of the season

Detroit_TFC
09-20-2008, 09:00 PM
Garbage.

SilverSamurai
09-20-2008, 09:00 PM
I wish I knew...
well their's always next season... or a 5 game winning streak... :D

Ladies Love Julius James
09-20-2008, 09:00 PM
OOOOOO this is our house. Fuck off. That was shit. Everyone gets blamed. Starting to feel I just waste my time everytime I watch it

Lucky Strike
09-20-2008, 09:01 PM
ugh.

go to it.

Shouldn't be so fast to close the game thread, I was busy writing a response to someone when I lost everything... At least give it a few minutes.

dag
09-20-2008, 09:01 PM
<Sigh>

shwade
09-20-2008, 09:01 PM
Fuck...I'm so behind on my reading because I decided to watch this.

Razor
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
no talent bunch of twats - the whole lot of 'em.

thank god i'll always have Liverpool to cheer for.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
"Don't worry we're only a 2nd year team."


Oh wait ... turnover is so high in this league that most of the players that have joined their teams did so within the last 2 or 3 seasons.

2 + 2 is 4.

Go do some research if you don't believe me.

TheRenter
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
i hope we come in last in the league now just to get the 2nd overall pick

Batman
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
May I be the first to say that was fuckin shite, Batman?

You're not gettin' an argument from me.

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
For a team that had to win the game, that effort was pathetic.
No urgency, passion or clue.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
How many shots on target for our boys tonight?
None ..fuck all.... nada.... zilch

In a "must win" that speaks volumes..Where is the pride in the shirt?
You could have put 11 off us STHs from the South stand and you'd have seen more effort tonight.

Kevvv
09-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Likely because the lineup has kept changing from game to game - Robert in, Guevara in, Samuel out, Cunny out, Internationals out, Robert out, Barrett in, Ruiz in, Dichio injured, Edu out. They must be putting the names on with velcro by now. Whatever, it ain't working.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:04 PM
How many shots on target for our boys tonight?
None ..fuck all.... nada.... zilch

In a "must win" that speaks volumes..Where is the pride in the shirt?
You could have put 11 off us STHs from the South stand and you'd have seen more effort tonight.

What do you expect ... Carver and MoJo are already talking about DPs for next season ... what kind of message do you think that sends to the players.

Pack your bags ... you suck, were planning for next year.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:04 PM
fair point but play fer yer fuckin contract

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:04 PM
How many shots on target for our boys tonight?
None ..fuck all.... nada.... zilch

In a "must win" that speaks volumes..Where is the pride in the shirt?
You could have put 11 off us STHs from the South stand and you'd have seen more effort tonight.
This lot are done and Johnston is NOT the man to sign the next crop.
Get rid of them all now.

Razor
09-20-2008, 09:04 PM
no comment - what a disgrace

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:05 PM
Likely because the lineup has kept changing from game to game - Robert in, Guevara in, Samuel out, Cunny out, Internationals out, Robert out, Barrett in, Ruiz in, Dichio injured, Edu out. They must be putting the names on with velcro by now. Whatever, it ain't working.

I think we're the only team that has had absences this whole season in the MLS.


Yup.

The only one.

:eek:

Batman
09-20-2008, 09:05 PM
Shouldn't be so fast to close the game thread, I was busy writing a response to someone when I lost everything... At least give it a few minutes.

Sorry. :mad:It's why I gave a head up with 5 to go.

Anyway feel free to share the thoughts here.

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:05 PM
What do you expect ... Carver and MoJo are already talking about DPs for next season ... what kind of message do you think that sends to the players.

Pack your bags ... you suck, were planning for next year.
No, it would say to me get your f*cking finger out and make sure you keep your job.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:05 PM
All good teams are built from the back...and look at our back 4.


Says it all..Marshall and James- worst defensive partnership on the fookin planet

NateDoGG
09-20-2008, 09:05 PM
i heard carver got fired
is this triue?

Pachuco
09-20-2008, 09:06 PM
Not because I actually think we still have a chance to catch D.C. But because we don't deserve anything more then last place in the MLS. And because I want this team to prove all the believers wrong that Carver actually has improved this team.

This team is JUST AS BAD as last years with a better squad on paper. Pathetic. Mo Johnston could've coached us to the same result.

This team sucks to bad that I'm actually exited about watching the Leafs, go figure.

dantdot
09-20-2008, 09:06 PM
Weee areee sooo shittee anndddd we knowww it.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:07 PM
No, it would say to me get your f*cking finger out and make sure you keep your job.

Keep your job. lol


Buddy this is the world of soccer ... they can just f off to Norway and earn twice as much.

If European football is an investment banker job at 300K a year with benefits ... MLS is McDonalds at minimum wage.

What are they playing for?

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:07 PM
All good teams are built from the back...and look at our back 4.


Says it all..Marshall and James- worst defensive partnership on the fookin planet
Throw in Velez and they're funnier than the Marx brothers.

kuku
09-20-2008, 09:08 PM
For a team that had to win the game, that effort was pathetic.
No urgency, passion or clue.

I totally agree. Better yet, lets sub in a 17 year old kid since we need the win so badly. Fuck!!! Also, please don't raise the "In Carver we trust" banner at the next home game. After this game, there's no more trust.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:09 PM
no excuse for the performance, but was that pitch to FIFA standards width wise?

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Not because I actually think we still have a chance to catch D.C. But because we don't deserve anything more then last place in the MLS. And because I want this team to prove all the believers wrong that Carver actually has improved this team.

This team is JUST AS BAD as last years with a better squad on paper. Pathetic. Mo Johnston could've coached us to the same result.

This team sucks to bad that I'm actually exited about watching the Leafs, go figure.

But we're an expansion team ... DC isn;t. Riiiight

Let's see.


Gallardo
Emilio
Fred
Quaranta
Guerrero
Vide
Peralta
Martinez
Crayton

Guess what ... they all came to DC within the past 2 years.

Are they an expansion team too?

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Keep your job. lol


Buddy this is the world of soccer ... they can just f off to Norway and earn twice as much.

If European football is an investment banker job at 300K a year with benefits ... MLS is McDonalds at minimum wage.

What are they playing for?
If they were good enough to play in Norway for twice the money they would be there already...."buddy"

andyc
09-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Does anyone have any stats on which teams have given up the most penalties? We have to be top of that league...

How many times can a penalty call break my heart??? Even if they are fair calls...

shwade
09-20-2008, 09:10 PM
If they were good enough to play in Norway for twice the money they would be there already...."buddy"

Norway and MLS is probably the same..they just go there because then they'll actually be able to put food on the table.

Fergy
09-20-2008, 09:10 PM
If that was us in a must win game id hate to see us play with nothing at stake

wzhxvy
09-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Great example Carver...getting thrown out protesting a legitamate call at that point of the game. Oh and great substitutions, it was Ruiz and Barrets's fault they werent getting the ball. Mo and Carver should be terminated immediately...San Jose is making the playoffs and we are a horrible team...this was not a team who played tonight...disgraceful !

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:11 PM
no excuse for the performance, but was that pitch to FIFA standards width wise?
Highbury used to be the smallest surface in the league and look at the lovely stuff Arsenal used to play there...

Batman
09-20-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm outta here guys.

Don't take the frustration out on each other.

Peace.

RPB73
09-20-2008, 09:11 PM
i hope we come in last in the league now just to get the 2nd overall pick

Some NCAA 22 year old, who hasn't got a fucking clue. Can't wait.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:12 PM
lol....what a comparison!!! ;:)

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:13 PM
lol....what a comparison!!! ;:)
Your place was the biggest.......

wzhxvy
09-20-2008, 09:13 PM
And I agree...enough of the ass kissing of John Carver, Mo and the FO. Just because they make some of people feel "special" is no excuse for us continuing this blind support of a bunch of idiots managing this team...

Corcai
09-20-2008, 09:15 PM
I think it was the 78th minute before I say our boys string 4 consecutives passes together, Of course they were at midfield standing 3 feet apart saying "I don't want it, you take it. No I don't want it either here you go".

Absolutely no effort or sense of urgency tonight. By far the most dissappointing effort to date. I do not care if we lose every match but I am getting sick of seeing the keeper hung out to dry game in game out.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Your place was the biggest.......
true and look at the shit we played at Maine Road!!

:)

shwade
09-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Great example Carver...getting thrown out protesting a legitamate call at that point of the game. Oh and great substitutions, it was Ruiz and Barrets's fault they werent getting the ball. Mo and Carver should be terminated immediately...San Jose is making the playoffs and we are a horrible team...this was not a team who played tonight...disgraceful !

I didn't understand the subs especially when he said pre-game that he wouldn't hesitate to put in 3 forwards.

reggie
09-20-2008, 09:15 PM
shit,brutal,crap,don't forget to renew those tickets people,we got DPs, players from brazil coming and 3 1st rd picks which mo will trade by the half way mark next season for some other teams rejects,and barret and #20 have long term contracts,is fergy our GM.

wzhxvy
09-20-2008, 09:16 PM
I didn't understand the subs especially when he said pre-game that he wouldn't hesitate to put in 3 forwards.

Watch Carver blame his assistant lol...he blames everyone else !

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:18 PM
true and look at the shit we played at Maine Road!!

:)

!!!
I saw West Ham stuff 5 past City at Maine Road around '71...It was Greaves' debut for them ...I think he got 4.
City had some great years in the late '60's to mid '70's

Kevvv
09-20-2008, 09:19 PM
I think we're the only team that has had absences this whole season in the MLS.


Yup.

The only one.

:eek:


You missed the point utterly - our lineup has been too unstable, partly because of international call-ups, but mainly due to roster changes. Not 'absences'


:eek:

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Fact is we look better with Dich on the pitch and we saw back on that great pissed-up weekend in Ohio that Carver does not rate DD as a starter...

I like Carver'd passion but is he getting the best out of this squad?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for id head, but I merely ask the question...

Lucky Strike
09-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Sorry. :mad:It's why I gave a head up with 5 to go.

Anyway feel free to share the thoughts here.

Yes but that's no good when you're responding to a comment made at the dying moments of the game. And that paragraph was longish so it's a bummer to have to re-write.

I'm not trying to get in your kitchen or create any more negative atmosphere but perhaps leaving the game thread open longer than 2¾ seconds after the final whistle would be beneficial.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:20 PM
Tbh, I think our record is flattering.

Think back to the wins we've achieved.

@ LA 3-2 we played awful the first half but snuck a Danny D goal late in the first half and scrambled 2 others ... even though we were outplayed, Sutts saved our bacon

v. KC 2-0... Guevara scores an offside goal and another freekick wonder goal (probably one of our top 3 performances)

v. RSL 1-0.. Robert scores a mishit freekick and we get outplayed the rest of the game at home.

v. DC 1-0 ... played good football for the first 20 minutes than DC pinned us back the rest of the game

v. LA 2-0 ... galaxy have nobody ... neither do we ... this game we dominated from start to finish however

v. Col 3-0 .. best game of the season ... RR10 show

@ Col ... no idea how we pulled this one out. Barrett's unreal goal puts us up and we almost lose after the Rapids even go down a man. Granted we were a hugely depleted squad.


So really ... of our 7 wins we played dominating for 3 of them... this is a really bad synopsis... feel free to argue.

billyfly
09-20-2008, 09:20 PM
I've always rubbished that "we are only 2 years old" excuse. There is no large scale academy feeding system in MLS and player turn-over is huge. We could (should?) be better than this. Tonight I saw no effort and no apparent high skill level from TFC.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:20 PM
!!!
I saw West Ham stuff 5 past City at Maine Road around '71...It was Greaves' debut for them ...I think he got 4.
City had some great years in the late '60's to mid '70's
showing your age, mate!!

reggie
09-20-2008, 09:21 PM
oh my god,JC is driving the bus tonight,get out of the way boys or you may be under it!!!!

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:22 PM
oh my god,JC is driving the bus tonight,get out of the way boys or you may be under it!!!!

I wonder if he can find a way to blame Diaz Kambere tonight.

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:22 PM
showing your age, mate!!
Yes, and I wasn't 3 then !!

SilverSamurai
09-20-2008, 09:23 PM
I think things started to die after the 1st round of qualifiers when we had a bunch of starters on the bench because of Carvers "winning team stays" idea. While nice in practice, it's not always the best thing to do.

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:24 PM
I've always rubbished that "we are only 2 years old" excuse. There is no large scale academy feeding system in MLS and player turn-over is huge. We could (should?) be better than this. Tonight I saw no effort and no apparent high skill level from TFC.
IMHO it all falls at the feet of Johnston.....he's clueless.

Kevvv
09-20-2008, 09:25 PM
I've always rubbished that "we are only 2 years old" excuse. There is no large scale academy feeding system in MLS and player turn-over is huge. We could (should?) be better than this. Tonight I saw no effort and no apparent high skill level from TFC.


SJ is two points out of second in the West; being new is no excuse for our play

rocktml
09-20-2008, 09:25 PM
I could barley watch the game............I'm done

Goodnight

reggie
09-20-2008, 09:26 PM
well at least he did'nt play his super sub g.smith,
why his he playing a 7 game defender(freeman) instead of j smith WTF.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 09:26 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months - allowing the same predictable cast of characters the chance to vent again. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott

Davenport
09-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I could barley watch the game............I'm done

Goodnight
Classic......
It's always better to have barley when you're watching that shower.

Kevvv
09-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I think things started to die after the 1st round of qualifiers when we had a bunch of starters on the bench because of Carvers "winning team stays" idea. While nice in practice, it's not always the best thing to do.


That was the start of the decline. I remember someone raised that same argument at the time, who was it?









Oh yeah - giambac!

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott

Sad...but true.



But we all do it.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:28 PM
Yes, and I wasn't 3 then !!
Fuck..I was 7.
Makes it easier to support thr shite we see at BMO when you follow the Irons or City eh...FFS

Kevvv
09-20-2008, 09:29 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months - allowing the same predictable cast of characters the chance to vent again. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott



Day 6.


Other than that, I completely agree.

Huginho
09-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Why do people support a coach who has only 2 wins in the last 20 games including the 2 friendlies.

John's Army? The General's leading his men into a massacre.

reggie
09-20-2008, 09:29 PM
2 wins in the last 18 and i've seen better football in the local park....

shwade
09-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Ricketts was good in the last 15mins but before that he was really shitty. I don't know why people here rate him so high...just because his cuz is on the board and he likes the city? He gves up the ball as much as Welsh and he's absent for long stretches.

Huginho
09-20-2008, 09:31 PM
speaks for itself

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 09:32 PM
Why do people support a coach who has only 2 wins in the last 20 games including the 2 friendlies.

John's Army? The General's leading his men into a massacre.

Because some people disagree with the assessment that this is Coach Carver's fault.

Contrary to what some armchair sports strategists think, there is no empirical evidence to suggest that a good coach can lead a mediocre team to victory by sheer force of his will.

- Scott

SilverSamurai
09-20-2008, 09:32 PM
That was the start of the decline. I remember someone raised that same argument at the time, who was it?









Oh yeah - giambac!
But maybe he was right (as much as I hate to admit it) but up until that point, the team was still doing well.
Maybe they spiked the water as well?
I dunno...

I'm not calling for Carver's head, but can't figure it out for the life of me.
1 thing that is needed is a solid CB. I think Marshall's time is done, sad to say.

Huginho
09-20-2008, 09:32 PM
speaks for itself, don't it? In Carver you trust!

dee-spot
09-20-2008, 09:33 PM
That was painful to watch right from the beginning. They were incapable of passing the ball to each other and they kept giving it away all the time. Marshall cost us both goals, I don't know why we keep him.

gtaguy
09-20-2008, 09:34 PM
guys lets be contructive... hate feeling like a loser.. i already have the leafs for that..
Its Our second years and yes TFC is shite!!!!
I hate saying it , hate having to admit it ,and what kills me now is thinking back on our season.
All those ties did us in, All those shit plays where we got called penalties suck the bag. All the times we gave up late game goas have me depressed.
n paper this teams looks real good but on the field we certainly lack alot ..
It blows my mind to think that a good season start has to end with me writing this stuff about them. I love your Reds .. but man your killin me..

Nuvinho
09-20-2008, 09:34 PM
I am still in shock how badly we played, with all the hype about this being a 'must win' game. We didn't seem to push the play or control, we let KC control every aspect of the game.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:34 PM
Why do people support a coach who has only 2 wins in the last 20 games including the 2 friendlies.

John's Army? The General's leading his men into a massacre.

Because's he's sooo honest ....

... he's a geordie ...

... he looks likes he should be a good manager ...

... he uses that fancy computer projector thing-a-ma-jig to do "tactics"...

... he swears like a drunken sailor ...

... has a short temper ....

... can wear a striped tie like nobody's business ...



... and he speaks with an accent!!!

H Bomb
09-20-2008, 09:35 PM
Because's he's sooo honest ....

... he's a geordie ...

... he looks likes he should be a good manager ...

... he uses that fancy computer projector thing-a-ma-jig to do "tactics"...

... he swears like a drunken sailor ...

... has a short temper ....

... can wear a striped tie like nobody's business ...



... and he speaks with an accent!!!

This is a ridiculous post. I hope you believe this dude. I really do. :noidea:

Huginho
09-20-2008, 09:35 PM
sorry for the multiple post, didn't realize threads were merged

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:36 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months - allowing the same predictable cast of characters the chance to vent again. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott
Thanks, I needed a chuckle!!

TheRenter
09-20-2008, 09:36 PM
[quote=LucaGol;193639]Tbh, I think our record is flattering.

Think back to the wins we've achieved.

@ LA 3-2 we played awful the first half but snuck a Danny D goal late in the first half and scrambled 2 others ... even though we were outplayed, Sutts saved our bacon

v. KC 2-0... Guevara scores an offside goal and another freekick wonder goal (probably one of our top 3 performances)

v. RSL 1-0.. Robert scores a mishit freekick and we get outplayed the rest of the game at home.

v. DC 1-0 ... played good football for the first 20 minutes than DC pinned us back the rest of the game

v. LA 2-0 ... galaxy have nobody ... neither do we ... this game we dominated from start to finish however

v. Col 3-0 .. best game of the season ... RR10 show

@ Col ... no idea how we pulled this one out. Barrett's unreal goal puts us up and we almost lose after the Rapids even go down a man. Granted we were a hugely depleted squad.


So really ... of our 7 wins we played dominating for 3 of them... this is a really bad synopsis... feel free to argue.[quote]

goal was proven not to be offside, find something else to be cynical about

gtaguy
09-20-2008, 09:36 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months - allowing the same predictable cast of characters the chance to vent again. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott
i guess you just killed all discussion here

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:36 PM
This is a ridiculous post. I hope you believe this dude. I really do. :noidea:

What, Im just listing all of Johnny C's positive traits.

You don't agree?

marquis
09-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Because some people disagree with the assessment that this is Coach Carver's fault.

Contrary to what some armchair sports strategists think, there is no empirical evidence to suggest that a good coach can lead a mediocre team to victory by sheer force of his will.

- Scott

When the team is mediocre and the coach is good, you'd want to see some signs of good coaching...I kept on looking since the season began and still nothing.

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 09:37 PM
WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE.....

Fuck..I need another pint

Huginho
09-20-2008, 09:37 PM
perhaps if that good coach has a better understanding of strategy and tactics. So in other words any coach who know's better then just to tell his players to hoof the ball forward to no one.


Because some people disagree with the assessment that this is Coach Carver's fault.

Contrary to what some armchair sports strategists think, there is no empirical evidence to suggest that a good coach can lead a mediocre team to victory by sheer force of his will.

- Scott

TFC-Tyler
09-20-2008, 09:38 PM
People pay money for them? lol wow. High school quality, have kids and watch them play, you'll see better soccer than Toronto FC.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:38 PM
in before the lock as they say on the intarwebs.

Pachuco
09-20-2008, 09:38 PM
This team sucks, Mo sucks, Carver sucks. MLSE SUCKS THE BIG ONE.

RPB73
09-20-2008, 09:39 PM
And I agree...enough of the ass kissing of John Carver, Mo and the FO. Just because they make some of people feel "special" is no excuse for us continuing this blind support of a bunch of idiots managing this team...

What the fuck was Carver thinking, when he subbed off Ruiz and Barrett for Dichio and Ibby. Is this house league. If anything you bring on Dichio for a defender. You need a win so go for the win. That substitution was just status quo. Why is Danny on the bench anyway, he is still our best striker and he is fit now. I've seen posts on here saying we are a 2nd year team and we don't have the talent level as the other teams. KC IS SHIT and we can't beat them. Talent or no talent the coach should still be able to organize his squad so that you don't humiliate yourself. It is now getting to that point where it is embarassing. No first touch, no passing ability, absolutely no running off the ball what the fuck is this shit. In Carver we trust what a joke.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 09:39 PM
Can an admin do me a favour and take "TFC" out of this guy's name?

Or better yet - ban him already.

- Scott

Ladies Love Julius James
09-20-2008, 09:40 PM
Chad was having ankle problems I believe

H Bomb
09-20-2008, 09:43 PM
Ruiz and Barrett came off cause they looked terrible...just like everyone else...but you have to change someone so the strikers is a good idea. Taking off both tells everyone to pull their thumbs out. No reason to change for a defender at that point because it's 0-0 with 40 minutes to play.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 09:43 PM
perhaps if that good coach has a better understanding of strategy and tactics. So in other words any coach who know's better then just to tell his players to hoof the ball forward to no one.

So, in the first match against Chivas USA a few weeks ago, when Ruiz put Barrett in on multiple breakaway runs, which Barrett failed to finish - was that a failure of strategy?

How about when Ricketts failed to put the ball in an open net against New England?

How about the horrible giveaways Ruiz had in front of the box against Columbus last weekend?

When Marshall puts passes onto the other team's foot over and over, is that a failure of the guy on the sidelines?

Carver is working with what he has, and he hasn't even had one offseason yet to fill in the gaping holes this squad has - especially on defense, and finishing up front.

Blaming the coach first will forever be the easiest copout for an underperforming team.

- Scott

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 09:44 PM
no talent bunch of twats - the whole lot of 'em.

thank god i'll always have Liverpool to cheer for.
that game suck today too..

Beach_Red
09-20-2008, 09:44 PM
Keep your job. lol


Buddy this is the world of soccer ... they can just f off to Norway and earn twice as much.

If European football is an investment banker job at 300K a year with benefits ... MLS is McDonalds at minimum wage.

What are they playing for?

So, maybe MLS won't actually work in Toronto?

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:44 PM
Where's Rosenlund ... where's Johann Smith ... where's the logic ffs.

We played Chivas with an "undermanned squad" and Johann Smith and Tyler Rosenlund were 2 of our best 3 players.

Yet they're superglued to the bench ... I mean ... I just don't understand.

Nuvinho
09-20-2008, 09:45 PM
Since the season is over for us, in terms of playoffs......Let's talk about players again:

Sutton - Keep
Edwards - Keep

Wynne - gone to Europe by January
Marshall - trade for allocation money
James - Keep
Velez - back to PR Islanders
Brennan - Keep
Dunivant - Keep

Ricketts - Keep
Robbo - Keep
Freeman - Already gone
Jo.Smith - Keep
Ja.Smith - Keep
Guevara - Keep
Roselund - Keep

Dichio - Keep or will retire
Barrett - Keep
Ibbe - Keep
Ruiz - See ya

Somehow rebuild the defence, I have no idea how we going to do this within the MLS rules. Mo/JC want a DP so maybe a striker. We should have 4 to 5 spots (after the dead weight is gone).

TFC-Tyler
09-20-2008, 09:45 PM
Fucking shite, thats my thoughts

Corcai
09-20-2008, 09:47 PM
My only issue is baby steps. How long until TFC can string 2-3 passes together consistently? Apparently the bastion of footie love in Kansas has figured it out and have assembled a squad that embarrassed our boys tonight. In fucking Kansas!

So why is a team in the middle of no where, able to embarass the TFC like they did. Kansas and Columbus have figured out what TFC hasn't. Sort of like Tampa Bay winning the cup.

LucaGol
09-20-2008, 09:47 PM
So, maybe MLS won't actually work in Toronto?

Just because one job is better than the other ... that doesn't mean no one will ever not work for a minimum wage job if they have to. It just means that they will value that job less.

Lucky Strike
09-20-2008, 09:48 PM
I guess it's time to take another break from this place for a few days. Here is what will happen in the meantime:

1) The people who don't like the job either Mo and/or Carver are doing, will use this as evidence that they both need to be fired.

2) The people who like Mo and/or Carver, will say that it's the fault of consistency in the roster, being a new franchise, playing without heart, the referees, the pitch, and maybe even the players themselves.

3) Some people will say the team sucks, and they are done with them, while still proudly displaying various Toronto FC imagery in their signature, or even having TFC in their forum name.

4) Yet ANOTHER group of people will say that the team could be good, but "ML$E" is making a profit, so they won't do anything about it. They will point to lack of a DP, lack of grass, and lack of a pretty stadium like some other cities are getting.

Lastly, various threads will crop up with polls asking whose fault it is for our results the past few months - allowing the same predictable cast of characters the chance to vent again. Eventually, after about day three, people will calm down, and start talking about what we need to do for next season.

- Scott

Good post, mostly because it's very true. The bolded stuff basically represents my thinking.

1. There's no getting around the fact that there has been little consistency in the line-up.

2. Some of the players we have are just completely obtuse (Velez and Marshall - who are sometimes good but overall way too prone to complete brain cramps).

3. The fact we have turf has at least cost us O'Brien and Huckerby. I won't pretend to know for sure there was more, but you get the idea.

Bars92
09-20-2008, 09:48 PM
At least the Argos are shite too.

reggie
09-20-2008, 09:49 PM
Since the season is over for us, in terms of playoffs......Let's talk about players again:

Sutton - Keep
Edwards - Keep

Wynne - gone to Europe by January
Marshall - trade for allocation money
James - Keep
Velez - back to PR Islanders
Brennan - Keep
Dunivant - Keep

Ricketts - Keep
Robbo - Keep
Freeman - Already gone
Jo.Smith - Keep
Ja.Smith - Keep
Guevara - Keep
Roselund - Keep

Dichio - Keep or will retire
Barrett - Keep
Ibbe - Keep
Ruiz - See ya

Somehow rebuild the defence, I have no idea how we going to do this within the MLS rules. Mo/JC want a DP so maybe a striker. We should have 4 to 5 spots (after the dead weight is gone).
to many keeps for a 2 wins in the last 20....

sully
09-20-2008, 09:50 PM
Carver must go. He can't get the best out of this team and he can't behave on the sidelines.

The players need a kick up the back-side, but more importantly they need a coach they can respect and that will organise them.

Nuvinho
09-20-2008, 09:50 PM
At least the Argos are shite too.

yip.

as well, i'm winding down watching one shite team in TFC, and will start watching another shite team in the leafs in a few weeks.

shwade
09-20-2008, 09:51 PM
to many keeps for a 2 wins in the last 20....

He's kept basically everyone except a couple.

ua-kozak_TFC
09-20-2008, 09:51 PM
i said it many times and i will say it again. The root of the problem is MO... all the changes and signing he has made from the time he came here have been superficial, players go players come. its just to show that he is doing something but there is NO progress... even if we got both dero and degusman next season we would still suck because aside from Suton our team sucks MAJOR shit.

The only thing i think MO did good is unload edu on rangers while the hype about him still there. people say that his major atributes is his drafting skill. I will tell you something 1) it is very easy to be a "good drafter" if you have high pick 2) we had the 6th and the 7th pick this year and what....

now look at San Jose... first year in MLS and the team is not only Young but Good and at this point in playoff contention... you see its possible none of this 5 year plan it just a way to extend Mo's contract for as long as he can... even then we are almost finished season 2 and it;s technically 40% almost half way the "MASTER PLAN for FUTURE SUCCESS" and to tell you the truth i don;t like where this is going one bit... we are still at Square one...

people gonna blame the turf and what not... but look at RSL their turf is half as good as ours and they managed to bring players and are in the second place at the moment

Bars92
09-20-2008, 09:52 PM
my version:

Sutton - Keep
Edwards - Keep

Wynne - gone to Europe by January
Marshall - gone
James - Keep
Velez - gone
Brennan - Keep
Dunivant - Keep

Ricketts - Keep
Robbo - Keep
Freeman - Already gone
Jo.Smith - Keep
Ja.Smith - gone
Guevara - Keep
Roselund - gone

Dichio - gone
Barrett - keep
Ibbe - gone
Ruiz - gone

Beach_Red
09-20-2008, 09:52 PM
Just because one job is better than the other ... that doesn't mean no one will ever not work for a minimum wage job if they have to. It just means that they will value that job less.

No, what I mean is, will fans in Toronto accept a losing team for another year and keep coming out?

The team only started here because the deal was so good MLSE couldn't say no - and not one other company was interested. You can't say their heart is really in it.

And this is painful to watch. There are five games left in this season, but who cares? In the week leading up to this game on this board there was almost no talk of the game itself. Earlier in the season the pre-game threads started up days before gameday.

TFC-Tyler
09-20-2008, 09:55 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Martin_Gerber.jpg/250px-Martin_Gerber.jpg

Bars92
09-20-2008, 09:56 PM
No, what I mean is, will fans in Toronto accept a losing team for another year and keep coming out?

The team only started here because the deal was so good MLSE couldn't say no - and not one other company was interested. You can't say their heart is really in it.

And this is painful to watch. There are five games left in this season, but who cares? In the week leading up to this game on this board there was almost no talk of the game itself. Earlier in the season the pre-game threads started up days before gameday.

Gonna have to decrease the ticket prices thats all. I think a lot of people want to go to a football match, even if the team is garbage, just not for the ticket prices they've been charging.

Lucky Strike
09-20-2008, 09:56 PM
Since the season is over for us, in terms of playoffs......Let's talk about players again:

Sutton - Keep (agree)
Edwards - Keep (agree)

Wynne - gone to Europe by January (everybody says so but I'm not convinced about that)
Marshall - trade for allocation money (or for a handful of paperclips)
James - Keep (still not wholly convinced about him, but we shouldn't give up after only one season)
Velez - back to PR Islanders (in exchange for a no-name pen which will run out after 10 seconds and we'll still have the better deal)
Brennan - Keep (absolutely)
Dunivant - Keep (yes)

Ricketts - Keep (yes)
Robbo - Keep (yes)
Freeman - Already gone (I know he's under contract but he's been decent so far)
Jo.Smith - Keep (yes)
Ja.Smith - Keep (I suppose...)
Guevara - Keep (we must)
Roselund - Keep (agree)

Dichio - Keep or will retire (yes)
Barrett - Keep (yes)
Ibbe - Keep (yes)
Ruiz - See ya (perhaps, I haven't made up my mind yet)

Somehow rebuild the defence, I have no idea how we going to do this within the MLS rules. Mo/JC want a DP so maybe a striker. We should have 4 to 5 spots (after the dead weight is gone).

See bolded stuff.

Nuvinho
09-20-2008, 09:58 PM
See bolded stuff.

We have the same views. Most of my views on players who should leave is based on what JC is saying. He needs a CB, another midfielder, and a goal poacher. I just don't know how they gonna fit all that under the cap.

greatwhitenorf
09-20-2008, 09:59 PM
Perhaps a healthy chorus or twelve of"

"You're not fit
You're not fit
You're not fit to wear the shirt
You're not fit to wear the shirt"

Sad, pathetic performance. And a team effort, too boot. Perhaps their flight home should be diverted to Moncton, or somewhere, and they should take the bus home.

Or push the bus home.

RPB73
09-20-2008, 10:00 PM
Ruiz and Barrett came off cause they looked terrible...just like everyone else...but you have to change someone so the strikers is a good idea. Taking off both tells everyone to pull their thumbs out. No reason to change for a defender at that point because it's 0-0 with 40 minutes to play.

They looked terrible because the only service they were getting was when Sutton punted the ball into the other 18 yard box. If you get no service as a striker you look terrible no matter who you are. Since our game plan seemed to be hoof the ball up the field than why not take off a defender and brinf in a 3rd striker. Nil, nil 40 min. left I believe it is time to bring in a 3rd striker. I t's not like this team has a bunch of goals in them.

Beach_Red
09-20-2008, 10:00 PM
i said it many times and i will say it again. The root of the problem is MO...

I don't know, what does he do any differently than any other manager would? He calls up every agent in the world with a player out of contract and offers him the most he can under MLS rules. Some guys say okay, they'll come to Toronto and most don't - how many people on this board are living in Toronto because it was their first choice and they preferred it to any other city in the world? How many people on this board would move if they got a better or even equal job offer in some other city/country?

TFC Cityboy
09-20-2008, 10:01 PM
ah...bollocks to the inquest- I need me beauty sleep.
Night all....

Canadian Blue
09-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Another crap performance......maybe we should use the DP position on a defender.....

maybe now we won't have to pay for playoff tickets that won't be happening

iansmcl
09-20-2008, 10:20 PM
That was the start of the decline. I remember someone raised that same argument at the time, who was it?









Oh yeah - giambac!

Yeah, he's not totally crazy. West Ham won today today... maybe we SHOULD get an Italian coach! ;)

My favourite thing about this board though is how our players, who may have been our heroes as recently as last week, are now rated poorly, e.g. Velez to begin the season: everyone hated him; then the general opinion was he's good; now after what, if the board is to be believed, is ten thousand mistakes, we hate him. Yet we have the right to criticise Mo for bringing in bad players... ? I seem to recall actually, the consesus was that our backline was great, around the time Tebilly left. *sigh*

ua-kozak_TFC
09-20-2008, 10:23 PM
I don't know, what does he do any differently than any other manager would? He calls up every agent in the world with a player out of contract and offers him the most he can under MLS rules. Some guys say okay, they'll come to Toronto and most don't - how many people on this board are living in Toronto because it was their first choice and they preferred it to any other city in the world? How many people on this board would move if they got a better or even equal job offer in some other city/country?
you can say that about the weather because engladn doesn;t ahve the best weather in the world neither.
ANd we ahev a strong fan base to make up for the bad weather...the problem with this guy is that He procrastinates a lot we NEVER have the full squad for the pre season. Also he makes changes to the squad but it takes us no where.. players like escandarian, cunny, goldwaith, currently ruiz etc are just superficial changes ands he passes on opportunities like signing seriux, dero(he didn;t show enough interest in him when dero was renewing the contract) . he would hve been solid on defence you start building a team from the defence to the offence example: San Jose...

This guy has NO clue how to build a team and is a horrible judge of player's skill. i donno i just can;t believe that he couldn;t find ONE player in brazil that was better than the players we have now...

iansmcl
09-20-2008, 10:26 PM
I'm sure he found a bunch of players in Brazil that were better... just none that wanted to come to Toronto to earn $17 000 a year.

RPB73
09-20-2008, 10:27 PM
Can an admin do me a favour and take "TFC" out of this guy's name?

Or better yet - ban him already.

- Scott

Why should he be banned? For voicing his opinion? Did he say something racist? Did he insult anyone? This is an open forum to express personal opinions, not everyone has to agree with each other.

TFC USA
09-20-2008, 10:30 PM
What was the score?

TFC USA
09-20-2008, 10:32 PM
no talent bunch of twats - the whole lot of 'em.

thank god i'll always have Liverpool to cheer for.


You're rooting for a bunch of no talent twats still (minus Torres and Gerrard)? :D:D:D

Oldtimer
09-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Why should he be banned? For voicing his opinion? Did he say something racist? Did he insult anyone? This is an open forum for trolls to get their kicks, not everyone has to agree with each other.

Fixed.

ua-kozak_TFC
09-20-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm sure he found a bunch of players in Brazil that were better... just none that wanted to come to Toronto to earn $17 000 a year.
ok.... if we are paying 450k for ruiz a season at the moment and lorant robert and robbo 350k a season... I don;t think it would be that difficult to find guys to play for that money... DC united brough Emilio and Fred for how much?i think it was like 250 or even less

Beach_Red
09-20-2008, 10:36 PM
you can say that about the weather because engladn doesn;t ahve the best weather in the world neither.
...

I don't mean the weather. And in England soccer is #1.

I'm just in a bad mood after another bad game. Sure, we have great fans in Toronto but I hear it a lot from lots of people - they didn't really want to come to Toronto and would rather be back 'home' wherever that is - or even in the USA. Soccer players may be no different.

Maybe someone else could do a better job, but it might even be worse, we don't know. When he got Robert, Guevara, Ricketts and Tebily it looked good. Julius James should have had this season to learn more before playing so much, too bad Tebily left, he would have made a big difference. A lot of guys were offered contracts and turned them down, a few guys even came to see the place and then left. Was it the management, the coach or the city?

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 10:37 PM
What was the score?
0-2 kc

Brooker
09-20-2008, 10:41 PM
quote of the night..... "toronto passes it off to..... nobody in paticular."

is it better for me to laugh or cry?

with barely any crowd noise you could really tell how much of a leader Danny is as soon as he steps on the field. our guys just need to get used to playing with eachother. FUCK! story of the year.

here's to next weekend. (thats getting repetitive.)

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 10:42 PM
I don't mean the weather. And in England soccer is #1.

I'm just in a bad mood after another bad game. Sure, we have great fans in Toronto but I hear it a lot from lots of people - they didn't really want to come to Toronto and would rather be back 'home' wherever that is - or even in the USA. Soccer players may be no different.

Maybe someone else could do a better job, but it might even be worse, we don't know. When he got Robert, Guevara, Ricketts and Tebily it looked good. Julius James should have had this season to learn more before playing so much, too bad Tebily left, he would have made a big difference. A lot of guys were offered contracts and turned them down, a few guys even came to see the place and then left. Was it the management, the coach or the city?
No it was the shit field there was no grass.

TFC USA
09-20-2008, 10:42 PM
Well that sucks...


Who screwed up for TFC?


And to the Mo lovers, San Jose may make the playoffs in their first year, while Toronto FC in 2 years of his General Management, has done mostly sign rejects that at some point in time played in the UK, and basically we may not win another game the rest of the year and finish last again.


I think Carver should stay, but Mo has to go......and frankly so should James if you want to talk players.


How did Ruiz do?

Fort York Redcoat
09-20-2008, 10:44 PM
I'd like to give a big no prize to the camera crew tonight.

Why was Carver ejected? I wanna see it.
Why was the KC capt.'s face exploding. I wanna see it.
And way to replay challenges while the play resumes.

Just wanted to shit on someone other than the team.

TFC USA
09-20-2008, 10:46 PM
Cripes, another penalty given? Do we lead the league in giving away penalties?

ua-kozak_TFC
09-20-2008, 10:46 PM
Well that sucks...


Who screwed up for TFC?


And to the Mo lovers, San Jose may make the playoffs in their first year, while Toronto FC in 2 years of his General Management, has done mostly sign rejects that at some point in time played in the UK, and basically we may not win another game the rest of the year and finish last again.


I think Carver should stay, but Mo has to go......and frankly so should James if you want to talk players.


How did Ruiz do?
exactly my thought 2 years into the league and we are still at ground zero.

Mo says a lot about building for the future... and what not.... tell me what freking future? our youth suck except ibe and still i am not too convinced about him.

Brooker
09-20-2008, 10:47 PM
How did Ruiz do?

invisable....

well, except for the few times he gave the ball away.

TFC USA
09-20-2008, 10:50 PM
invisable....

well, except for the few times he gave the ball away.


Glad to know those on the forum who thought Ruiz would do well have been silenced.


Ruiz was a waste........

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 10:51 PM
quote of the night.....

"toronto passes it off to..... nobody in paticular."

here's to next weekend. (thats getting repetative.)
next week I'm thinking about not putting up no tfc player banner . But i will be putting up a csa fire dale banner.

and one more thing we better win

Brooker
09-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Glad to know those on the forum who thought Ruiz would do well have been silenced.


Ruiz was a waste........

hell, what else was there? he was a gamble. although he's been absolute garbage so far, he's better than nothing imo.

he might surprise us next week and actually show up! :noidea:

Roogsy
09-20-2008, 11:02 PM
Guevara, Ruiz...these guys can't be as invisible as they have been for TFC. It is widely accepted these are GOOD players. Why are they not good...for us? And they aren't the only players. I am left scratching my head why they and others are so ineffective.

At the end of the day, I don't blame Mo, Carver or the players specifically as much as I blame them collectively. I think it's silly for us to sit here and claim to "know" what is wrong with this team. We are probably just knowledgeable enough to simpoy recognize there is a problem.

What the fix is I simply don't know.

There is a problem there. That's about the extent of my knowledge. And it's killing me that this team is just so bad. I am embarrassed, angry, sad, disappointed, confused and desparate. My biggest worry is that we are going to have another ineffective and wasteful offseason. I am depressed.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 11:07 PM
Well that sucks...


Who screwed up for TFC?


And to the Mo lovers, San Jose may make the playoffs in their first year, while Toronto FC in 2 years of his General Management, has done mostly sign rejects that at some point in time played in the UK, and basically we may not win another game the rest of the year and finish last again.


I think Carver should stay, but Mo has to go......and frankly so should James if you want to talk players.


How did Ruiz do?

And as I keep asking - who is leading that turnaround in San Jose, again? DARREN HUCKERBY. That "over the hill" waste of money that Mo had a discovery claim on, who wouldn't play here because of forces out of his control. Where are the critics who wanted Mo ousted for looking at him, now?

I get tired of the misleading argument people make about Mo, where they list the players he signed who haven't worked out (Welsh, Robert, Cunningham), and not the ones who have played well over the balance of their time here (Ricketts, Barrett, Jo Smith, Wynne). This kind of stuff happens in sports. Not every signing lights the world on fire.

I'm also tired of the "he only signs English rejects" farce. Two of our best players this season have been "english rejects" - Ricketts, and Dichio. And another reject - Jo Smith - is looking good for the future too.

So who does that leave? Welsh, and Robert (who played well, but was just lazy).

Where did Ruiz come from? Barrett? Guevara? Got an answer for me?

This is so useless. People have these preconceived notions of reality in their heads, as it pertains to Mo and Carver, and no matter what you say, they wont accept the facts.

- Scott

iansmcl
09-20-2008, 11:09 PM
ok.... if we are paying 450k for ruiz a season at the moment and lorant robert and robbo 350k a season... I don;t think it would be that difficult to find guys to play for that money... DC united brough Emilio and Fred for how much?i think it was like 250 or even less

Disclaimer: This post is probably rambling and may make no sense... if that is the case, I take no responsibility for it and blame John Carver. ;)

Fred was playing in Australia and they got him for between 200-250 I believe; though, yes, Emilio was playing in Honduras but I have no idea how much they got him for.

The other thing you're forgetting is... transfer fees. Neither DC player you mentioned required one and Mo might not have found anyone who was available on a free or the people he was waiting for on a free went to other places.

Also, remember MLS restrictive roster spots. Maybe Mo legitimately thought that Ricketts, Robert, etc., thought that these guys were worth more than unproven Brazillians? In that case, maybe hindsight is 20-20, as they say, or maybe Mo should have read the warning signs from other teams that passed on these guys, namely Robert.

Do I think that no, he couldn't have found any cheap talent like NE's Gambian studs? Definitely not; it's Brazil! At the same time, I'd hope that Mo (and indeed any form of football scout) could find half-decent talent. Really, it all comes back to transfer fees, MLS is unwilling to pay them (as we've seen with USL sides), so if any of the players Mo wanted required them we most likely couldn't get them. And if they didn't require a transfer fee, Mo may have offered them a Developmental contract for $17 000 (remember, Mo is running a business, so any unproven players would likely be offered this), while staying under the International player limit.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 11:15 PM
Why should he be banned? For voicing his opinion? Did he say something racist? Did he insult anyone? This is an open forum to express personal opinions, not everyone has to agree with each other.

His post got merged to this thread, from another thread he had made titled "This team fucking sucks". We don't need that shit here.

I also wasn't basing my words on that - but the fact that all the guy does is slag the team, and insult anyone who disagrees with him. Yet he has the gall to put "TFC" in his bloody name.

One other thing I wanted to mention:

People need to get the story straight on Ruiz. We aren't paying him 450K this season. We traded away basically nothing for him, and we are paying him around 120k for the balance of the season. And furthermore, rumour has it that the Galaxy are eating part of that remaining salary. He also isn't signed past this season, so if he sucks, we just don't resign him. He was brought in as a last ditch effort to resuscitate the TFC offense.

I'm almost hesitant to judge the guys value to this team at this point, because we have all kinds of good players who just aren't doing anything right now, as part of the team itself.

- Scott

iansmcl
09-20-2008, 11:16 PM
next week I'm thinking about not putting up no tfc player banner . But i will be putting up a csa fire dale banner.

and one more thing we better win

Put up Dichio, at least.

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Put up Dichio, at least.


yeah i have his uk flag that he signed

iansmcl
09-20-2008, 11:25 PM
I think he's deserving of being put up, hasn't played poorly like everyone else.

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 11:31 PM
Guevara, Ruiz...these guys can't be as invisible as they have been for TFC. It is widely accepted these are GOOD players. Why are they not good...for us? And they aren't the only players. I am left scratching my head why they and others are so ineffective.

At the end of the day, I don't blame Mo, Carver or the players specifically as much as I blame them collectively. I think it's silly for us to sit here and claim to "know" what is wrong with this team. We are probably just knowledgeable enough to simpoy recognize there is a problem.

What the fix is I simply don't know.

There is a problem there. That's about the extent of my knowledge. And it's killing me that this team is just so bad. I am embarrassed, angry, sad, disappointed, confused and desparate. My biggest worry is that we are going to have another ineffective and wasteful offseason. I am depressed.
your right there is no "I" in team

nascarguy
09-20-2008, 11:34 PM
Put up Dichio, at least.


yeah i have his uk flag that he signed


I think he's deserving of being put up, hasn't played poorly like everyone else.


yes his flag will be up

jloome
09-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Said it before, said it again, will say it again: individually, lots of these players have talent. But they play without cohesion, and they play without heart.

I'm not entirely sure at this point if Carver should be back. I think it's time to face a few points that to me, at this juncture, smack of reality and compare his positives and negatives. And I say this with the ensuing humility of admitting that up until now I've defended him to the core.:

* While he has introduced a more professional general structure with the use of prozone and a senior team/reserve team dressing room situation, the team has little-to-no cohesion. It does not play fluidly. Instead, the players merely fill their roles, moving into textbook field position, often seemingly oblivious to defensive shape or tactical opportunities.

* While he's been quick to praise players previously seen as malcontents (Guevara, Robert, Ricketts) he has also called players out publicly which, fair or not, can cause friction and a feelign that your coach doesn't support you.

* Faced with a succesful creative midfield including Ricketts, Smith and Rosenlund actually creating chances against Colorado, we've hardly seen either Smith or Rosenlund since. When they have played, they've been infinitely more dangerous than Guevara. 3 goals and four assists from this guy? Please. If one more person tells me how important he is when he practically walks through games and gives away more last balls than anyone on the team, I may flip my lid. Today, he and Robinson exhibited a complete absence of control of the centre of the pitch and yet both were left in.

* Blithely confident that our defense coudl hold up because of a home record that is heavily boosted by fan presence and fieldturf, Mo and Carver both talked for months about bringing in a striker. Meanwhile, there was not apparent effort to recruit defensive developmental players as backups or to find a solid central anchor once tebily fucked off. When the international shortage hit, we were fucked.

* Our quality of off the ball movement, perhaps the biggest single shortcoming we've had all season, has actually gotten worse. Given that we've had at least two incidents now in which supposedly key players came back late for no explained reason from int'l duty and missed training days as a result, there is an obvious lack of discipline and motivation. ANd before anyone points to Rohan Ricketts having the odd off-day -- today included -- I'd thank them to remember he's not only good most of the time, he leaves his guts out there on display. As much as I've ridden Marv Wynne over his positioning, it's the same with him. So far, it's also the same with Rosenlund and Smith. THe rest of the team neets a gut-check.

* Why was Ruiz subbed off today? Barrett was bloody awful, work rate notwithstanding. Ruiz, however, was not. His movement off the ball was decent, he linked a few guys up, but had zero to work with from the incredible disappearing midfield.

* Why was an apparently health Danny D not starting? He has a near one-in-2 scoring rate in this league and yet is not playing? His ability to bring down the high ball is the only real central pressure we've ever been able to create, and he can finish. So why the fuck is he sitting while Barrett is starting.

That's it. I'm off the Carver bandwagon. Unless we finish this season strongly, I can't see why they should keep him. What? THe players love him?

Well sweet whoopdee fuckin' do. The road to well-intentioned sports hell is paved with the bones of "players coaches" who tactically couldn't lead an ape up a tree if it was covered with bananas.

TFC07
09-20-2008, 11:38 PM
I promise myself I will stop posting here, but I got to say that it is nice to see people on this website that finally want Mo and Carver fired and speaking up against blind support for this team. Building a respectful team doesn't take too long in this league. So please save the "2nd year club" argument to yourselves.

And yes, don't value too much when comes to draft picks. NCAA players aren't going to save this team.

That is all. I am out.

jloome
09-20-2008, 11:43 PM
And as I keep asking - who is leading that turnaround in San Jose, again? DARREN HUCKERBY. That "over the hill" waste of money that Mo had a discovery claim on, who wouldn't play here because of forces out of his control. Where are the critics who wanted Mo ousted for looking at him, now?

I get tired of the misleading argument people make about Mo, where they list the players he signed who haven't worked out (Welsh, Robert, Cunningham), and not the ones who have played well over the balance of their time here (Ricketts, Barrett, Jo Smith, Wynne). This kind of stuff happens in sports. Not every signing lights the world on fire.

I'm also tired of the "he only signs English rejects" farce. Two of our best players this season have been "english rejects" - Ricketts, and Dichio. And another reject - Jo Smith - is looking good for the future too.

So who does that leave? Welsh, and Robert (who played well, but was just lazy).

Where did Ruiz come from? Barrett? Guevara? Got an answer for me?

This is so useless. People have these preconceived notions of reality in their heads, as it pertains to Mo and Carver, and no matter what you say, they wont accept the facts.

- Scott

Shakes, we've won one game since May.

You can choose to decide that no one is actually to blame for that, but I'd have to venture that in any other sport, where love of the team strip wasn't even more important than how it represents one's community, no one in their right mind would look at our record and NOT blame the coach and GM, as well as a healthy chunk of the players.

And I'd say the fact that some of the arguments as to WHY that's the are juvenile doesn't change the fact that this is one screwed up club, as much as I love it.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 11:48 PM
Cohesion comes from playing with a stable roster week-in, week-out. Carver hasn't had that luxury for most of the season. Note that our long slide began around the time of Dichio's injury, and international call-ups.

The recruitment of depth players is Mo's responsibility, but I don't think our backfield looked shaky prior to Edu getting transferred, Velez losing his mind, Attakora getting injured, Dunivant getting injured - the list goes on. Our defensive core has been a revolving door all year, which may explain why they don't seem to have any positional sense.

Dichio probably didn't start, because they are trying to slowly work him back into more playing time, to reduce the risk of re-injury. Better to have him all of next season (hopefully), than a game or two when our post-season hopes were very bleak even BEFORE this match, and then have him get knocked again in a "meaningless" match.

The calling out of players who don't play with heart, or make selfish mistakes (Cunningham, Velez), I'm still fully supportive of. Good for him.

I'm still in Carver's corner - he is in his first season here, and I really don't know what to make of the club's problems anymore. nor can I even begin to proerly analyze what might be wrong.

I do know one thoing though - if we had succeeded in signing Huckerby, Mo and Carver would probably look like geniuses right now.

- Scott

werewolf
09-20-2008, 11:53 PM
That was the same ref. from the Dallas game at home last month :lol:

Boondaddy
09-20-2008, 11:53 PM
we're just not good enough...end of. tonights performance was nothing short of embarrassing....they were in control.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2008, 11:56 PM
Shakes, we've won one game since May.

You can choose to decide that no one is actually to blame for that, but I'd have to venture that in any other sport, where love of the team strip wasn't even more important than how it represents one's community, no one in their right mind would look at our record and NOT blame the coach and GM, as well as a healthy chunk of the players.

And I'd say the fact that some of the arguments as to WHY that's the are juvenile doesn't change the fact that this is one screwed up club, as much as I love it.

I wasn't even addressing the team's performance - just the factual basis of the claims people make about Mo's signings.

Even if you think Mo is an awful GM, it doesn't change the fact that the usual reasons trotted out, are just plain false.

It is clear that something is horribly wrong with our team right now. But this is mostly the same group of players who went on an unbeaten tear a few months ago. I believe it is more useful to analyze what happened around the time that ended.

I also think that blaming the Coach and GM is lazy, unless you can pinpoint a thousand instances of outright incompetence on both their parts.

- Scott

Boondaddy
09-21-2008, 12:01 AM
i agree....dont blame Carver....the problem is the dudes on the pitch!!! Make an effort....get to the ball first.....create chances...put pressure on. None of this was happening tonight.

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 12:04 AM
i agree....dont blame Carver....the problem is the dudes on the pitch!!! Make an effort....get to the ball first.....create chances...put pressure on. None of this was happening tonight.

Exactly. As I said, even the best coach can't carry a mediocre team to victory by sheer will alone.

Awful passes aren't the result of a bad coach. Not being able to score on a breakaway isn't the result of poor coaching.

- Scott

king dave
09-21-2008, 12:09 AM
First, Mo has to go. He has been an abject failure at his job, both here and NY. No eye for quality players.
Carver is not the coach for us. If he was he would have these guys, as bad as they are, at least trying to play better. I went to an open practice several weeks back, and though it was partly a media/fan event, I saw nothing you or I wouldn't do as a pre-game warm up for a kickabout. Pretty lame training regimen for so-called pros.
If you're stayin' with them, better get used to less than mediocre play from a bunch of misfits.
But if you're bailing, please let the FO know via letter/email/phone call that you 'aren't gonna take this shit any more, goodbye'.
Maybe the guys hiring the guys who are responsible for putting a competitive product on the pitch will began to take their jobs more seriously and hire qualified football people instead of other leagues cast-offs.
KD.

Axeman
09-21-2008, 12:21 AM
In Carver we trust.
He takes losing personally, when TFC's playoff bid ended he got fired up and ejected, he hasn't had a preseason with alot of the players, and doesn't have a legit DP.
Carver is what we need next year, This is a supporter group not a fucking teen depression center.
Go Carver! I'm with yah!

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 12:21 AM
king dave: Send me a PM if you're getting rid of your season's tickets.

- Scott

Oblio2
09-21-2008, 01:21 AM
Fuck this shit.
We are expected to folow this tripe?
Blind supprting isn't my thing....we are NOT the Leafs. We are terrible, no excuses.

king dave
09-21-2008, 01:25 AM
Fuck this shit.
We are expected to folow this tripe?
Blind supprting isn't my thing....we are NOT the Leafs. We are terrible, no excuses.
Newcastle United is experiencing a similar circumstance at the moment and the fans have unanimously come out in numbers and protested their displeasure.
Not sure if that would work. But the FO should be made aware of how we all feel.
KD.

dupont
09-21-2008, 01:38 AM
So depressing to look at the total shots in this game. We got completely dominated from start to finish. Just horrible.

netsan
09-21-2008, 01:47 AM
Please! Someone put Mo Johnson out of his misery. I don't have any confidence that he knows what he's doing. He keeps bringing us shit and seeing if any of it sticks. I wish we had the Toronto Lynx front office. They seemed to be able to bring in talent from all over the world. At least they were competitive. The Toronto Lynx (USL) would have eaten TFC's lunch!

MLSE has no self-respect putting on this garbage and charging big league prices.

When I went to a Lynx game they played on grass and it cost me $10! And they played competitive, entertaining football!

jloome
09-21-2008, 01:59 AM
I also think that blaming the Coach and GM is lazy, unless you can pinpoint a thousand instances of outright incompetence on both their parts.

- Scott


It takes a thousand?
It shouldn't even take outright incompetence. It should take two things:

1) an Inability to get players to play to their potential
2) an inability to foster constant improvement.

Right now, that's exactly the situation here. In fact, we started brightly. Remember at the end of the winnign streak in May when we were all talking about deep playoff runs? I recognize the outside limitations such as internationals and roster size that contributed to the problem but on the whole we faced the same limitations as other teams and came away with...what? A training computer, a couple of good wingers, a striker with unlimited but unrealized potential, and the rest of the team essentially needing to be rebuilt.

Perhaps one season of this management partnership is too early. But if six months into season three, results are still shit, even the most hardcore fan will have to admit that Carver and Mo have to take the brunt, stupid MLS rules (that everyone must live with) notwithstanding.

Axeman
09-21-2008, 02:07 AM
Fuck this shit.
We are expected to folow this tripe?
Blind supprting isn't my thing....we are NOT the Leafs. We are terrible, no excuses.
Blind supporting???
So whoever doesn't agree with you is blind?
Yeah you're right we should fire a coach and GM every 1 and 3/4 years till we get instant results, yeah that's the way to build a team!

v00d00daddy
09-21-2008, 02:41 AM
For those of you who are still optimistic....please send me whatever drugs you are on. The team is brutal. EVERY SINGLE ASPECT. There is nothing good about this team right now.

If you some of you want to go and give JC and Mo and the players a big hug for their effort, go for it. Fill your boots.

If I see any of them in person I for one will tell anybody associated with this team right now that they suck. I'm sorry. But that is what they have to hear.

They don't deserve any "nice try" or "better luck next year" shit. I can accept them not getting results for 3.5 months. It's hard but I can accept. What I can't accept is the way they play the game. It looks like 14 year old rep soccer out there. Some of these guys get paid 150k + to be out there. They should be ashamed of themselves.

And some of you guys talking like it ain't so bad right now makes it even harder to swallow.

It's time to show these guys that we won't tolerate this anymore. It's long overdue.

Red Rat
09-21-2008, 02:43 AM
Hot Dogs!!!! Sausages?
Hot Dogs????
.

Pachuco
09-21-2008, 02:51 AM
Exactly. As I said, even the best coach can't carry a mediocre team to victory by sheer will alone.

Awful passes aren't the result of a bad coach. Not being able to score on a breakaway isn't the result of poor coaching.

- Scott

This post just made me realize you have no idea about this sport. You've obviously never played the game before and never coached in your life. AND, you obviously work for MLSE.

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 03:49 AM
It takes a thousand?
It shouldn't even take outright incompetence. It should take two things:

1) an Inability to get players to play to their potential
2) an inability to foster constant improvement.

Right now, that's exactly the situation here. In fact, we started brightly. Remember at the end of the winnign streak in May when we were all talking about deep playoff runs? I recognize the outside limitations such as internationals and roster size that contributed to the problem but on the whole we faced the same limitations as other teams and came away with...what? A training computer, a couple of good wingers, a striker with unlimited but unrealized potential, and the rest of the team essentially needing to be rebuilt.

Perhaps one season of this management partnership is too early. But if six months into season three, results are still shit, even the most hardcore fan will have to admit that Carver and Mo have to take the brunt, stupid MLS rules (that everyone must live with) notwithstanding.

But again, many of the players not playing to their potential, haven't even been here for the entire season - Ricketts, Jo Smith, Barrett, and Ruiz, to name a few. You're asking a new coach, for a new team, to get new players playing to their full potential, as part of a revolving door roster, with depth and key injury problems.

And while everyone deals with the same rules, it has been mentioned over and over that we deal with the problem MORE than most teams. How many teams were missing nine players for any given match this year? Should we blame Carver for that?

At the beginning of the season, when we had a stable roster for a while, we were playing to our potential. As soon as injuries (especially to a team leader, and good finisher in Dichio), and call-ups starting piling up, it all went to pot.

As I said, the "curve" for this season seems to indicate factors outside the coaching, as the reason for our decline.

If six months into next season, with a stable roster, and a DP, things are still not an improvement from this season, I will probably be off the Carver bandwagon. But too many variables exist, that could explain this awful situation, for me to simply pin it on Carver.

Our problem the last couple of months hasn't been in the planning department - it has been in execution. Bad passes, bad finishing, poor positioning, ball watching - these are player issues, not coaching ones.

And for people raking Mo over the coals - note that all of the "bright spots" of this season, have been players Mo brought in on transfers and trades this year.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 03:58 AM
This post just made me realize you have no idea about this sport. You've obviously never played the game before and never coached in your life. AND, you obviously work for MLSE.

As a fellow Red Patch Boy, let me just say I appreciate your reasonable, and nuanced criticism of what I said. You are a key contributor to a respectful discourse here.

What a juvenile response to my post. "You don't know anything about the sport, and you're clearly working for the opposition."

I've played all kinds of amateur sports, including both kinds of football. A decent coach can't will a mediocre team to victory.

I've stated before that I won't pass judgment on Carver until he has at least two full seasons under his belt, and I stand by that. Demanding that everyone get transferred out of town, and that the management team get blown up after every time the club goes on a bad winless skid, is NOT going to fix the problem.

If we are going to do that, we might as well lock down a few chronic underperformers to long, expensive contracts, and start playing at the Air Canada Center too.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 04:04 AM
For those of you who are still optimistic....please send me whatever drugs you are on. The team is brutal. EVERY SINGLE ASPECT. There is nothing good about this team right now.

If you some of you want to go and give JC and Mo and the players a big hug for their effort, go for it. Fill your boots.

If I see any of them in person I for one will tell anybody associated with this team right now that they suck. I'm sorry. But that is what they have to hear.

They don't deserve any "nice try" or "better luck next year" shit. I can accept them not getting results for 3.5 months. It's hard but I can accept. What I can't accept is the way they play the game. It looks like 14 year old rep soccer out there. Some of these guys get paid 150k + to be out there. They should be ashamed of themselves.

And some of you guys talking like it ain't so bad right now makes it even harder to swallow.

It's time to show these guys that we won't tolerate this anymore. It's long overdue.

Personally, I'm just defending Carver from the rioting mob who want his head specifically, for this situation.

I put the blame squarely on the shoulders on the mediocre play from our PLAYERS. John Carver, with a stable roster, was churning out brilliant results at the beginning of this club's second season.

As soon as the starting XI starting becoming a hodge podge of different players each week, it all fell apart.

Things are not good right now. I don't think anyone here has argued that things are great. I'm just trying to offer some calm perspective, instead of getting all bent out of shape, and calling for everyone's head.

- Scott

Oldtimer
09-21-2008, 07:33 AM
I wish we had the Toronto Lynx front office. They seemed to be able to bring in talent from all over the world. At least they were competitive. The Toronto Lynx (USL) would have eaten TFC's lunch!

MLSE has no self-respect putting on this garbage and charging big league prices.

When I went to a Lynx game they played on grass and it cost me $10! And they played competitive, entertaining football!

hahahahahaha

The Lynx front office? Where the husband sold the tickets, and his wife the hot dogs? You must be kidding.

Competitive, winning football? The Lynx sold off any half-decent players as soon as they could (DeRo was one of them) and spent their lives at the bottom of the table.

Don't say the quality was there. It's probably true that any USL side could have knocked off TFC last night, but I attended quite a few Lynx matches, and they didn't look good.

denime
09-21-2008, 07:45 AM
http://i35.tinypic.com/339ud5t.jpg


Well when we have 0 shots on the goal,it is not just that we need strikers,we need someone in midfield to give those strikers a ball so they can eventually take a shot at the goal.

Good news is DC lost last night so we are still "only" 5 points behind playoff spot. :rolleyes:

trane
09-21-2008, 07:49 AM
I had said at least a month ago, as I saw that it was just not happering, that if things do not improve we will have to consider a complete sweep of General Manager and Coach. I like Carver and I was hopefull that he would work out. He has not. We need to start from the foundation. I willing to suffer through another lossing season or two, but I want to see growth and direction. We have not seen this from this team. I personaly hope, and I do not think that it is the only way to go but it is my prefered way to go, that they bring in an Italian certified manager to teach the club and install into the system a fundamentaly solid game, that will insure that we have a competitive team for years to come. I have to say it. The Impact are in the Championship because they deserve it they have just that kind of team. We deserve nothing right now. Our team is not a good team it is just collection of mediocare tallent, with great potential but completley unaceptable result. This owner ship group will proof it self not be serious about building a great club is changes are not immediatley made.

I am sorry to say this as I like John Carver, and I do not dislike Mo. But the results are the results, and in the end they do not lie. Our record, shows that at the end of the day we are not that different team from last year.

Batman
09-21-2008, 07:53 AM
Good to see the folks in the post game thread generally stuck with arguing their points. No abuse or name calling. That's cool. Well done guys.

Game analysis: 0 shots on goal in a must win game against a team with us at the bottom of the standings. What possibly can be said?

I sure am starting to feel like a Leaf fan. Price increase year after year, blindly renewing my seats while we have an absolute shite product on the field. Seem familiar. It must be an MLSE formula.

loconet
09-21-2008, 07:55 AM
Newcastle United is experiencing a similar circumstance at the moment and the fans have unanimously come out in numbers and protested their displeasure.
Not sure if that would work. But the FO should be made aware of how we all feel.
KD.

C'mon, that comparison is a bit silly. Newcastle is a club with over 100 years of history and they've had 5-6 years of constant mediocre results.

Us? 2 year club with crappy performance. I'm not sure if it's time to bring out the pitch forks yet. I don't want to be a leafs fan either but put things into perspective. it has only been two years! If next year is another 2008, I'll buy the gasoline.

Firing the coaching staff every year isn't going fix it either. We are not Real Madrid, we simply do not have the quality to adapt to a new coach, or the coach to adapt to us that quickly and deliver results. A DP is not going to do the trick either, bringing a single guy to solve all our problems is asking for too much. Our problems are bigger/deeper than that.

That being said however, things need to change for sure. This team is shit. period. IMO one of the big things that needs to be addressed is our defense and holding midfield. Both are a bloody mess. Not only is the actual defending mediocre but why the fuck can we not get out playing? The connection between the midfield and the defense reminds me of house league play. No play making from the back, no vision. It's all mindless long balls up the field wasted in hopes of someone getting them. It never works, we give up possession. It has been like that for the majority of the season. What are they afraid of? Play the ball dammit! Learn to pass low. I hope someone in the coaching staff wakes the fuck up to stop this nonsense and pushes to get players to learn to play from the back.

I'm not too worried with our attacking midfield / strikers, as much as Guevara, Ruiz, Chad, etc have been absent these last few games, I think that with time they will learn to play well with each other and find each other with closed eyes. The individual quality is there, it's a question of time and learning. Our defense however, with the exception of Jimmy and Wynn on an attacking role, is all shit.

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 08:47 AM
Carver is an awful coach, and Mo is an incompetent GM. Why o Why, do we accept unproven people to coach and GM our team. What has Carver done as a coach anywhere else ? What has he won ? Which team has Mo built and what has it done ?

Enough of this crap about its the team, of course its the team, but ultimate responsibility is with the GM and coach.

Lets get a coach and GM who have won a championship before and who have a proven track record of success.

Beach_Red
09-21-2008, 09:22 AM
Maybe the guys hiring the guys who are responsible for putting a competitive product on the pitch will began to take their jobs more seriously and hire qualified football people instead of other leagues cast-offs.
KD.

Just wondering, what makes you think any more "qualified football people" would want to come here? All we do here is slam the stupid MLS, the stupid rules and contraints it puts on teams, the salary cap, the small rosters, the stupid schedule and the bush league level of the place - why would someone who wasn't a cast-off from another league come here?

Maybe because we're trying to build something, maybe because there's so much potential here in Toronto - and a few other cities in the league. Maybe this is still a development phase for the whole league.

There's clearly something not working in the coaching of this team - almost everyone agrees that the talent level of the players is better than a last place team, but people here have complained about everything so I don't know what to think. There have been complaints that when regular players returned from international games they weren't put back in the line-up right away and now there are complaints that the rookies played well last week, why weren't they kept in the starting line-up?

I'm starting to think maybe it takes a few years to build a team from scratch in a league where you can't just outspend the other teams.

LucaGol
09-21-2008, 09:23 AM
Personally, from the body language exuded by the players ... I don't think they like John Carver.

They can say to the media that they "love him" ... that "everyone thinks he's great" ... but if that we're honestly true ... I think the players would be showing a little more effort for him than they have in the past 5 or 6 games.

They would be dying on the field for him if they thought he was so great.

I think they have no respect for him to be blunt. His amateurish behaviour is probably alienating the young players ... and annoying the veterans.


I mean look at them out there ... carefully ... they don't give a toss what their manager has to say.

Who's fault is this ... the players or the coach ... really who can say ... but its definitely not positive.

LucaGol
09-21-2008, 09:25 AM
Just wondering, what makes you think any more "qualified football people" would want to come here? All we do here is slam the stupid MLS, the stupid rules and contraints it puts on teams, the salary cap, the small rosters, the stupid schedule and the bush league level of the place - why would someone who wasn't a cast-off from another league come here?

Maybe because we're trying to build something, maybe because there's so much potential here in Toronto - and a few other cities in the league. Maybe this is still a development phase for the whole league.

There's clearly something not working in the coaching of this team - almost everyone agrees that the talent level of the players is better than a last place team, but people here have complained about everything so I don't know what to think. There have been complaints that when regular players returned from international games they weren't put back in the line-up right away and now there are complaints that the rookies played well last week, why weren't they kept in the starting line-up?

I'm starting to think maybe it takes a few years to build a team from scratch in a league where you can't just outspend the other teams.

What, you mean a coach with actual experience?

I think we can at least manage that.

RPB_Brantford_08
09-21-2008, 10:04 AM
Carver is an awful coach, and Mo is an incompetent GM. Why o Why, do we accept unproven people to coach and GM our team. What has Carver done as a coach anywhere else ? What has he won ? Which team has Mo built and what has it done ?

Enough of this crap about its the team, of course its the team, but ultimate responsibility is with the GM and coach.

Lets get a coach and GM who have won a championship before and who have a proven track record of success.


Carver is a great manager and Mo is great at the front office work,
they have brought in Guevara,Ricketts,Ruiz etc you sound like a bandwagon jumper who only cares about championships, building a winning team takes time lets give them that.

Inswingingwingman
09-21-2008, 10:28 AM
Well, after a long period reading posts the followings is the recap.

1. Fire everybody.
2. Rip up the pitch and plant grass.
3. Snipers to shoot people who throw beer.
4. Topless female beer servers for the south end.
5. A huge drunken tailgate party 2 hours before the game.
6. Allow joints to be smoked in the stands.
7. Play the Canadian Women's national team who are encouraged to rip their tops off as they whip our butts 10-0.

ManUtd4ever
09-21-2008, 10:58 AM
TFC's performance last night was a fucking joke, plain and simple. I have defended JC in the past but at some point, Carver must be held accountable for the pathetic effort that has been on display far too often in recent weeks with or without international callups...

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 11:00 AM
Carver is a great manager and Mo is great at the front office work,
they have brought in Guevara,Ricketts,Ruiz etc you sound like a bandwagon jumper who only cares about championships, building a winning team takes time lets give them that.


Seriously ?? If you think this team is on its way to anything but dismal failure, then we obviously see things very differently. Not sure what I sound like other than someone who thinks John and Mo are not the right people...the results support that. San Jose is going to make the playoffs this year !!! Enough said...

RPB_Brantford_08
09-21-2008, 11:03 AM
TFC's performance last night was a fucking joke, plain and simple. I have defended JC in the past but at some point, Carver must be held accountable for the pathetic effort that has been on display far too often in recent weeks with or without international callups...


Blame the players...Brennan plays like hes been on holiday this season,
Dichio shows no sign of life whens he own, someone pulled his switch.
Robinson cant get the ball forward...and alls thats JC faulT???:confused:

RPB_Brantford_08
09-21-2008, 11:04 AM
Seriously ?? If you think this team is on its way to anything but dismal failure, then we obviously see things very differently. Not sure what I sound like other than someone who thinks John and Mo are not the right people...the results support that. San Jose is going to make the playoffs this year !!! Enough said...


san jose playoffs....No Chance...Bo Chance at all!!

Detroit_TFC
09-21-2008, 11:15 AM
I'm really torn.

As a consumer I'm definitely not getting back near what I've put in and I know the owners just want to make more money off me.

As a supporter I know this is when my team needs me most and I should be even more vocal with my support.

What to do?

TFC USA
09-21-2008, 11:21 AM
Shakes McQueen,


If the players aren't good, and that is supposedly their best effort, who signed them up because of their "great talent"? MO JOHNSTON.


The players aren't good and that's not Carver's fault, the person who is signing them is at fault.

Oldtimer
09-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Seriously, there are too many problems with this team. I'm not sure any one factor is at fault.

1) Our back line is incredibly weak, which leads to our attackers tracking back to defend.

2) Why did we go on a winning streak at the beginning, followed by a looonnnggg losing streak? Something is up with the players.

3) The players all say they respect JC, however I still can't tell if he's the man for the job or not. Sometimes his tactics seem suspect. However I don't expect EPL quality from an MLS coach.

4) Mo deserves at least a big chunk of the blame. He procrastinates and is not up front with what's going on. I'm okay with a GM in negotiations not spilling all the beans, but I get the feeling that a lot of what he says is pure BS. Trip to Brazil to get talent? He needs two trips a year? Yeah, right.

5) Can't ANY of our attackers consistently score goals?

RPB73
09-21-2008, 12:02 PM
Cohesion comes from playing with a stable roster week-in, week-out. Carver hasn't had that luxury for most of the season. Note that our long slide began around the time of Dichio's injury, and international call-ups.

The recruitment of depth players is Mo's responsibility, but I don't think our backfield looked shaky prior to Edu getting transferred, Velez losing his mind, Attakora getting injured, Dunivant getting injured - the list goes on. Our defensive core has been a revolving door all year, which may explain why they don't seem to have any positional sense.

Dichio probably didn't start, because they are trying to slowly work him back into more playing time, to reduce the risk of re-injury. Better to have him all of next season (hopefully), than a game or two when our post-season hopes were very bleak even BEFORE this match, and then have him get knocked again in a "meaningless" match.

The calling out of players who don't play with heart, or make selfish mistakes (Cunningham, Velez), I'm still fully supportive of. Good for him.

I'm still in Carver's corner - he is in his first season here, and I really don't know what to make of the club's problems anymore. nor can I even begin to proerly analyze what might be wrong.

I do know one thoing though - if we had succeeded in signing Huckerby, Mo and Carver would probably look like geniuses right now.

- Scott

I can only recall 3 games in which international call ups have hurt this team. Injuries have always been part of the game, so those excuses are just that excuses. Our defensive problems began long before the Edu transfer , Velez losing his mind or Attakora's injury. Our back 4 have pretty much been the same for the majority of the season, so that is not the problem. Why save Dichio for next season, there is a playoff battle going on now. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO FALL IN LOVE WITH A CERTAIN COACH, PLAYER , MANAGER ON THIS TEAM AND THAN BLINDLY SUPPORT THEM. Carver is not the coach that I EXPECTED. I see no reason for keeping him, but Mo has already made up his mind. Good because next season it will be both their asses out the door.

v00d00daddy
09-21-2008, 12:17 PM
Seriously, there are too many problems with this team. I'm not sure any one factor is at fault.

1) Our back line is incredibly weak, which leads to our attackers tracking back to defend.

2) Why did we go on a winning streak at the beginning, followed by a looonnnggg losing streak? Something is up with the players.

3) The players all say they respect JC, however I still can't tell if he's the man for the job or not. Sometimes his tactics seem suspect. However I don't expect EPL quality from an MLS coach.

4) Mo deserves at least a big chunk of the blame. He procrastinates and is not up front with what's going on. I'm okay with a GM in negotiations not spilling all the beans, but I get the feeling that a lot of what he says is pure BS. Trip to Brazil to get talent? He needs two trips a year? Yeah, right.

5) Can't ANY of our attackers consistently score goals?

I think you're bang on with this post. Especially about it being impossible to pin all the bad results on one aspect of the club.

I do disagree with you on point 3 though. I like JC and thought he would do well. I DO EXPECT EPL quality from him because that is where he came from. Isn't it?

Anyways. Last night was seriously frustrating. Brennan must have played the long ball from the back third to the attacking third (unsuccesfully) 7-8 times. Carver should have been spending less time yelling at the officials and more time yelling at his captain to get his head out of his ass.

On the other hand, if Carver was encouraging that type of tactical play from Brennan.....fire him now. Any coach that WANTS his team to play that bullshit long ball has to be fired.

Oblio2
09-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Blind supporting???
So whoever doesn't agree with you is blind?
Yeah you're right we should fire a coach and GM every 1 and 3/4 years till we get instant results, yeah that's the way to build a team!


Way off base dude.
Blindly supporting the team, even though they are pants. Nothing to do with "Agreeing" with me....
And show me where I said about replacing everyone? I simpply think, there isn't a problem in voicing displeasure at the way things are going, instead of blindly following, like Leafs fans....Understand?:noidea:

Oblio2
09-21-2008, 01:03 PM
I sure am starting to feel like a Leaf fan. Price increase year after year, blindly renewing my seats while we have an absolute shite product on the field. Seem familiar. It must be an MLSE formula.


Exactly

vergilg
09-21-2008, 01:17 PM
Ricketts has to go... works hard, but just doesn't fit.
Guevarra too.
Ruiz is a failed signing - I would have much rather given a chance to a younger less experienced player.

jloome
09-21-2008, 01:27 PM
Well, after a long period reading posts the followings is the recap.

1. Fire everybody.
2. Rip up the pitch and plant grass.
3. Snipers to shoot people who throw beer.
4. Topless female beer servers for the south end.
5. A huge drunken tailgate party 2 hours before the game.
6. Allow joints to be smoked in the stands.
7. Play the Canadian Women's national team who are encouraged to rip their tops off as they whip our butts 10-0.


Let's call it the 'XLS' and get Vince McMahon to....oh. Never mind.

jloome
09-21-2008, 01:31 PM
The two single biggest problems with this team, problems that, if fixed, could actually turn some of these results around are:
1) our off the ball movement is shit, so our space is shit, so our opportunities are shit.
2) Our defensive closing pressure is often too late, with the players sitting too deep.

You see both in every game we've lost, again, and again, and again.

This is a tactical situation (and I believe both issues -- the latter certainly several times -- have been raised by team members and carver) and therefore is the coach's responsibility to solve. When you have 50% of the possession but don't get a single shot on net, you have serious off-the-ball movement problems, which makes me think we've assembled a team full of players with lots of technique, but zero ability to think the game.

kdzb
09-21-2008, 01:42 PM
i heard carver got fired
is this triue?

As much as I respect the guy. I don't think he is good for the job.

Not only the Team is SHIT and on top of that he get ejected from the bunch cuz of his BIG Mouth.
The penalty was a good call but of course mister Carver think that he can intimidate the officials by arguing every referee call.
If he is not happy with MLS rules then he can pack and go. I'm starting to think that it's him who is not the man for this team.
How can you expalin with all the good players we have we still play like shit.
On paper we are a quality team but on the pitch we are a bunch of kids who can't make 2 passes together.:mad:

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 01:51 PM
Lets get a coach and GM who have won a championship before and who have a proven track record of success.


Such as? Name me one combo that would actually take a position with TFC (or even in the MLS)?

It's easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with the answer.

shwade
09-21-2008, 01:55 PM
Such as? Name me one combo that would actually take a position with TFC (or even in the MLS)?

It's easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with the answer.

Frank Yallop. He was gonna come in 06 but for whatever reason MLSE handed Mo the job instead.

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 01:57 PM
Well, after a long period reading posts the followings is the recap.

1. Fire everybody.
2. Rip up the pitch and plant grass.
3. Snipers to shoot people who throw beer.
4. Topless female beer servers for the south end.
5. A huge drunken tailgate party 2 hours before the game.
6. Allow joints to be smoked in the stands.
7. Play the Canadian Women's national team who are encouraged to rip their tops off as they whip our butts 10-0.


#7's very similar to a long-running fantasy of mine... :D

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 02:14 PM
Such as? Name me one combo that would actually take a position with TFC (or even in the MLS)?

It's easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with the answer.


And you happen to know who would and wouldnt take a position with TFC ?? Its not my job to come up with the answer...what is evident is that they have failed with the current Mo and Carver crew. I see no reason why a management team from any other MLS team would not entertain the prospect of coming to Toronto...if MLSE had the will to pay them and gave them full reign over the operation. Look at the other successful MLS teams and recruit their talent. Why this is such a foreign concept bertays me...so here is the answer, thanks for coming out.

MG42
09-21-2008, 02:28 PM
The biggest disgrace is that San Jose has 2 more points than us with a game at hand! This totally makes the "2nd year team" argument a big pile of steaming dog crap.

I remember a lot of prople hoping SJ would come in last so we could get a high draft pick...don't worry now, we're getting it ourselves :)

LucaGol
09-21-2008, 02:31 PM
The biggest disgrace is that San Jose has 2 more points than us with a game at hand! This totally makes the "2nd year team" argument a big pile of steaming dog crap.

I remember a lot of prople hoping SJ would come in last so we could get a high draft pick...don't worry now, we're getting it ourselves :)

Don't forget the "they've mortgaged their entire future for immediate success" argument.

Don't you know that the american versions of Leo Messi, Sergio Aguero and Alexandre Pato are in this years draft.

What idiots over there in San Jose.


:eek:

BuSaPuNk
09-21-2008, 02:32 PM
Both Carver and Mo havn't had the time to get there style of coaching or enough time to get the players they want to do anything with this team. If we never want to see a championship or even a playoff berth ever, then get rid of everyone as soon as it isn't working. Good luck keeping players, office personal, coaches, everyone.

Let Carver and Mo do there job. This is a expansion team remember?

Lucky Strike
09-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Both Carver and Mo havn't had the time to get there style of coaching or enough time to get the players they want to do anything with this team. If we never want to see a championship or even a playoff berth ever, then get rid of everyone as soon as it isn't working. Good luck keeping players, office personal, coaches, everyone.

Let Carver and Mo do there job. This is a expansion team remember?

As someone mentioned, the fact that this is SJ's first year and they're doing better pretty much nullifies the "it's only our 2nd year argument". That being said though, it won't help at all if we don't have consistency in coaches/management. Look at what player inconsistency has already done.

RPB_Brantford_08
09-21-2008, 03:16 PM
As someone mentioned, the fact that this is SJ's first year and they're doing better pretty much nullifies the "it's only our 2nd year argument". That being said though, it won't help at all if we don't have consistency in coaches/management. Look at what player inconsistency has already done.


It isn't really San Joses first year is it? they were in this league from the beginning then moved to Houston then restart in San Jose again Let be fair he they don't have to play shite canadians like Brennan game in and game out were handicapped their until we get/produce better quality canadians that will always be the case.

Super
09-21-2008, 03:23 PM
It isn't really San Joses first year is it? they were in this league from the beginning then moved to Houston then restart in San Jose again Let be fair he they don't have to play shite canadians like Brennan game in and game out were handicapped their until we get/produce better quality canadians that will always be the case.

San Jose had to re-build from scratch, though. As far as I am concerned they are a brand new team, and unlike us they're actually competitive in their first year.

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 03:35 PM
And you happen to know who would and wouldnt take a position with TFC ?? Its not my job to come up with the answer...what is evident is that they have failed with the current Mo and Carver crew. I see no reason why a management team from any other MLS team would not entertain the prospect of coming to Toronto...if MLSE had the will to pay them and gave them full reign over the operation. Look at the other successful MLS teams and recruit their talent. Why this is such a foreign concept bertays me...so here is the answer, thanks for coming out.

I asked for a name. Go get someone from a successful MLS team and pay them lots of money to coach TFC is not a name it's a theory. Might be a good one, I don't know, but it's not a name, so you would have failed that quiz, but thanks for playing anyway.

RPB_Brantford_08
09-21-2008, 03:40 PM
And you happen to know who would and wouldnt take a position with TFC ?? Its not my job to come up with the answer...what is evident is that they have failed with the current Mo and Carver crew. I see no reason why a management team from any other MLS team would not entertain the prospect of coming to Toronto...if MLSE had the will to pay them and gave them full reign over the operation. Look at the other successful MLS teams and recruit their talent. Why this is such a foreign concept bertays me...so here is the answer, thanks for coming out.


No answer...shocking...but not surprised.. you just negative about the team go support the Lynx !! just go..

Keegan
09-21-2008, 04:16 PM
No answer...shocking...but not surprised.. you just negative about the team go support the Lynx !! just go..

You are shockingly retarded. Seriously.
YOU should take a look in the mirror and go support one your "glory" teams like Celtic where there are never any problems and the sky is always blue.

You called Brennan a shite player? He was our player of the year last year and was an all-star this year and he played in the Premier League? But just because he is Canadian he is "shite". You are such a euro snob it's unbelievable, "anything produced in Canada is no good! Lets keep Mo and Carver, they are from the UK they must know something! Lets all watch Soccer saturday and cheer on Man United! De Rosario is one of the best players in MLS history? Can't be, he's from Canada. Lets sign an english 3rd division player who will take on 300 000 in salary space and then we will really be good! Can't go wrong there. De Guzman for DP? Hell no! Let's sign a 33 year old Colombian from Europe who played in a World Cup a decade ago."

With your way of thinking we would be seriously screwed.

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 04:18 PM
I asked for a name. Go get someone from a successful MLS team and pay them lots of money to coach TFC is not a name it's a theory. Might be a good one, I don't know, but it's not a name, so you would have failed that quiz, but thanks for playing anyway.


Since you seem to be good at asking questions, google the SJ or Houston franchise FO and you have your answer. Stop making excuses for the team. Some of us do not accept losers and losing.

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 04:19 PM
No answer...shocking...but not surprised.. you just negative about the team go support the Lynx !! just go..


Keep posting for everyone to see your level of arguments.

jloome
09-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Such as? Name me one combo that would actually take a position with TFC (or even in the MLS)?

It's easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with the answer.

That has to be the stupidest suggestion I've seen here so far today. Yeah, like thinking that perhaps Carver and Mo should be fired equates to asking someone to do an executive management search and get back to YOU, joe fucking clueless, in a few minutes flat. There are about seven months until next season. I'm confident enough in my own intelligence that given seven months, I could find an experienced, quality coach to take over.

Hell, Canadian fans were delighted when it looked like Rene Simoes was coming; he's out of work right now after being fired by Jamaica, but has previously taken a team to the Portugese CUp title, qualified the reggae boyz for the '98 cup and took Iran to the bronze medal at the Asian games.

He has had much, much more success than Carver as a head coach and if he was considering the Canadian nats would likely take on an MLS level club. And that took, what?...12 seconds to think up? Check back with me in seven months and I'll give you a full list, at which point you might finally realize how asinine an argument that is.

Blizzard
09-21-2008, 04:58 PM
San Jose had to re-build from scratch, though. As far as I am concerned they are a brand new team, and unlike us they're actually competitive in their first year.

They are a brand new team as you say. Only the name is a retread.

BigLou
09-21-2008, 05:26 PM
That was the same ref. from the Dallas game at home last month :lol:
When we were doing the thread talking about Robbo being questionable for @KCW last weekend I opened the match report to see who the officials were going to be ( I have started doing this before every game). I saw it was Baldomero Toledo and basically shit myself. He constantly wets the bed on important calls and has now given penalties in consective games against TFC. Lets hope he does not continue to be a part of the MLS officiating "farce"

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 06:15 PM
Since you seem to be good at asking questions, google the SJ or Houston franchise FO and you have your answer. Stop making excuses for the team. Some of us do not accept losers and losing.


No. Put your anger aside for a moment and re-read what I wrote. I have not made excuses for the team. In fact I haven't even disagreed with you're point. What I asked for was a name to replace these guys. I'm all for constructive criticism, such as Carver should be replaced with X person (Yallop, as someone suggested) for the reasons X, Y and Z. That kind of discussion would be interesting. But mostly what I read is "fire these fuckheads and get someone else", which while it might be a good idea isn't constructive criticism or even a topic for debate it's just puerile whining.

It's difficult to read 100 posts all saying "fire them! fire them!" Can you at least add some names so we have something to actually discuss is all I'm asking. Or is it just about wanting to complain? :noidea:

BuSaPuNk
09-21-2008, 06:21 PM
I will support this team win lose or draw. They are my team, I wear my colours every game day and I won't stop. This teams day of winning and championships will come. The talk of fire everyone, movement of players every day after a game is just what MLSE wants. Ala Maple Leafs. We need to build a foundation of good young players and a culture of winning. That is what they are doing.

Bitching, complaining and fighting each other about this is taking away from what this group is all about. Supporting TFC!

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 06:33 PM
That has to be the stupidest suggestion I've seen here so far today. Yeah, like thinking that perhaps Carver and Mo should be fired equates to asking someone to do an executive management search and get back to YOU, joe fucking clueless, in a few minutes flat. There are about seven months until next season. I'm confident enough in my own intelligence that given seven months, I could find an experienced, quality coach to take over.

Hell, Canadian fans were delighted when it looked like Rene Simoes was coming; he's out of work right now after being fired by Jamaica, but has previously taken a team to the Portugese CUp title, qualified the reggae boyz for the '98 cup and took Iran to the bronze medal at the Asian games.

He has had much, much more success than Carver as a head coach and if he was considering the Canadian nats would likely take on an MLS level club. And that took, what?...12 seconds to think up? Check back with me in seven months and I'll give you a full list, at which point you might finally realize how asinine an argument that is.


"get back to YOU, joe fucking clueless"
You know guy you're generally a pretty sharp cookie when you post. I've read your posts and you understand the game so I'm assuming you're over 16, so I got to ask, what's with the anger? Your post had good points, so why resort to petty name-calling?

All I asked for is some names to discuss. Like I said, 100 posts of
"fire him, fire him" is hard to read. All I ask is that someone actually says "how about this person as a solution" such as you have with Rene. Any fool can log on and type "fire them!" but it takes someone who's actually engaged their brain to say "and replace with ..." So excellent work you've given us a discussion item. Now do you think Rene would consider taking the job (and do you think he could make Velexz a better defender?)

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 06:56 PM
No. Put your anger aside for a moment and re-read what I wrote. I have not made excuses for the team. In fact I haven't even disagreed with you're point. What I asked for was a name to replace these guys. I'm all for constructive criticism, such as Carver should be replaced with X person (Yallop, as someone suggested) for the reasons X, Y and Z. That kind of discussion would be interesting. But mostly what I read is "fire these fuckheads and get someone else", which while it might be a good idea isn't constructive criticism or even a topic for debate it's just puerile whining.

It's difficult to read 100 posts all saying "fire them! fire them!" Can you at least add some names so we have something to actually discuss is all I'm asking. Or is it just about wanting to complain? :noidea:

What is wrong with complaining ? I see nothing wrong with it. I am not going to pretend that I know who specifically should replace Carver and Mo. But the facts are, they both have shown themselves to have failed in their roles. What I am suggesting is replace them with proven commodities who have won in the MLS (ie no excuses about cap, officiating, this or that).

By the way, on an aside note, given we are discussing these two guys, why am I the only person who is upset about the grass issue with Mo basically saying it will be tabled with the MLSE board and Ansalami (whatever his name is excuse my spelling) saying its not a priority ??? What the heck is going on ?!

Shakes McQueen
09-21-2008, 06:59 PM
By the way, on an aside note, given we are discussing these two guys, why am I the only person who is upset about the grass issue with Mo basically saying it will be tabled with the MLSE board and Ansalami (whatever his name is excuse my spelling) saying its not a priority ??? What the heck is going on ?!

What would you prefer that they say? There is miles of red tape they have to cut through first, before they can consider putting grass in.

While I wish Anselmi would be a bit more declarative in saying they will try to get grass in, they can't guarantee anything. Mo doesn't own the team. MLSE doesn't own the stadium.

- Scott

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 07:09 PM
What is wrong with complaining ? I see nothing wrong with it. I am not going to pretend that I know who specifically should replace Carver and Mo. But the facts are, they both have shown themselves to have failed in their roles. What I am suggesting is replace them with proven commodities who have won in the MLS (ie no excuses about cap, officiating, this or that).

By the way, on an aside note, given we are discussing these two guys, why am I the only person who is upset about the grass issue with Mo basically saying it will be tabled with the MLSE board and Ansalami (whatever his name is excuse my spelling) saying its not a priority ??? What the heck is going on ?!

Ostensibly nothing is wrong with complaining, up to a point. How many threads have we had about firing mo and carver? and those that are not eventually turn into one.

All I want is to progress the conversation. I'm not sure MLS would countenance one team poaching another teams mgmt pair, as they seem to dislike the advancement of one franchise at the detriment of another. But I don't know because I don't really follow the league closely enough because it has very little credibility with me (given the anachronistic rules and the head office interference). But it's worth discussing. As is the appt of Simoes or Yallop. As is any other names that you might throw out there. At least it would add some more interest to the thread.

And as for grass... it should be MLSE's main operational target for as soon as possible. But since they don't have the final say I can't bust their balls for this one. Regardless of the sales pitch, if the City says no... As for Anselmi, I think he's trying to stop any hype about grass so that supporters don't feel let down (any more than they already do) and he get the backlash.

wzhxvy
09-21-2008, 07:10 PM
^ I want them to be honest and forthcoming. If what you say is true, they should say that, instead of sending conflicting messaging and empty promises. I differ on MO, however, he is the GM, and an MLSE employee. I sure hope he feels accountable for what comes out of his mouth. Then again, its Mo we are talking about...take 50% of what he says to heart, and assume he can only accomplish 10% of what he says...

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 07:13 PM
^ I want them to be honest and forthcoming. If what you say is true, they should say that, instead of sending conflicting messaging and empty promises. I differ on MO, however, he is the GM, and an MLSE employee. I sure hope he feels accountable for what comes out of his mouth. Then again, its Mo we are talking about...take 50% of what he says to heart, and assume he can only accomplish 10% of what he says...


Oh I absolutely agree about them coming out and saying what the reality is, but corporations love their spin so I don't think it will happen. Just lots of conflicting messages all winter long.

Beach_Red
09-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Oh I absolutely agree about them coming out and saying what the reality is, but corporations love their spin so I don't think it will happen. Just lots of conflicting messages all winter long.

Plus it's a corporation that has to deal with a couple levels of government - that's never a smooth and above-board process. But it's safe to say that MLSE see a lot more profit in soccer now than they originally thought so they'll do everything to maximize that.

netsan
09-21-2008, 07:37 PM
Does anyone have Colin Samuel on speed dial?

Red Skies At Night
09-21-2008, 07:46 PM
I don't think Colin Samuel and speed can be used in the same sentence.

netsan
09-21-2008, 08:07 PM
Have we forgotten that Mo Johnson traded Adrian Serioux?...

He was drafted in the 2006 MLS expansion draft and was immediately traded to FC Dallas for Ronnie O'Brien. How could any intelligent manager deal away a valuable Canadian player? Considering what has transpired since then with the lack of quality Canadians, this proves that Mo had no clue that he was digging himself into a hole.

Oblio2
09-21-2008, 10:02 PM
In all fairness, most people agreed that Ronnie O, was one of the MLS's best players so, you can't fault him for that....

Roogsy
09-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Have we forgotten that Mo Johnson traded Adrian Serioux?...

He was drafted in the 2006 MLS expansion draft and was immediately traded to FC Dallas for Ronnie O'Brien. How could any intelligent manager deal away a valuable Canadian player? Considering what has transpired since then with the lack of quality Canadians, this proves that Mo had no clue that he was digging himself into a hole.

You know what? I am all for fair criticism. And if a player or coach deserves it, then have at it.

But all this revisionist history is just making me angry. Seriously guys, if you are just going to wail on Mo for any reason at all without logic whatsoever take it elsewhere. Nobody is saying you have to like Mo or even want him here but if you are going to rewrite history, then you just come off as ignorant.

Serioux getting acquired and then traded to get O'Brien and draft picks was a good trade. It's not like Serioux was let go for a song. I think 99% of TFC fans thought it was a good deal then, and still think it was a good deal now. Only guys around here who are obsessed with all these average Canadian soccer players who couldn't break a first division team anywhere except Norway, feel like we should move heaven and earth to get them, or TFC isn't doing it's job.

Serioux over O'Brien? Get serious. Even with O'Brien leaving we picked up a tonne of allocation space that would pay for 3 Serioux players.

jloome
09-21-2008, 10:52 PM
&quot;get back to YOU, joe fucking clueless&quot;
You know guy you're generally a pretty sharp cookie when you post. I've read your posts and you understand the game so I'm assuming you're over 16, so I got to ask, what's with the anger? Your post had good points, so why resort to petty name-calling?

All I asked for is some names to discuss. Like I said, 100 posts of
&quot;fire him, fire him&quot; is hard to read. All I ask is that someone actually says &quot;how about this person as a solution&quot; such as you have with Rene. Any fool can log on and type &quot;fire them!&quot; but it takes someone who's actually engaged their brain to say &quot;and replace with ...&quot; So excellent work you've given us a discussion item. Now do you think Rene would consider taking the job (and do you think he could make Velexz a better defender?)

It's not anger, it's irritation that someone would ostensibly try to short circuit valid arguments against keeping both the manager and GM with, &quot;well, I'd like to see you do better.&quot; That's how your post came across, thus the acidic response. My apologies. The Simoes question is tough; he's by no means a dominating motivator, more an organizational specialist. Again, it's problematic to say how he'd do because we don't really know the behind-the-scenes issues influencing TFC's problems. The great coaches are, first and foremost, motivators. You can have four good field bosses teaching technique (that's what Carver was, a field coach for most of his relatively short coaching career, and a very good one) but you still need a guy, whether it's a manager or assistant manager, to get them to die for a win. We certainly don't have that now, and although he's certainly on a credential basis more accomplished than Carver, Simoes isn't that type. Jason Kreiss at Real Salt Lake (fuck, fuck, fuck I hate that name) is a good example of a guy who is getting a lot done with not very much because he's such an intensely dominant personality that he can bring about that force of will in his players. That's what we need. Maybe Carver can be that kind of guy and there's just too much behind the scenes going on for us to know why it's not working. But I tend to believe his relative youth -- he's only a little over a decade removed from being a player himself -- and his need to be liked by his players by being honest, sometimes to a fault, is costing us. It's all very tough to get a read on. But for sure, it's extensively screwed up right now. Having noted a few games ago that I thought two-thirds of the team should be turned over before next year as unlikely to help us win a title, I would say at this point that the only players with the intensity we need would include: Rohan Ricketts Danny Dichio Chad Barrett (move to backup role, try in the hole) Jo Smith Tyler Rosenlund Carl Robinson (move to late-game role) Marvell Wynne Jim Brennan (move to backup role) Gabe Gala Nana Attakora Greg Sutton (move to backup role) Joey Melo Ibbe Ibrahim Due to a general sense of disinterest or overarching incompetence from them, I would try to move or get rid of Guevara, Ruiz, Smith (good work rate, just not a smart enough player) Velez, Marshall, Dunivant, James, Edwareds, and Freeman (who's leaving anyway.) Qualifiers: I would only keep Robbo if he were willing to rotate and spend considerable time on the bench. He should be brought into games late as a lockdown player, to ensure that we have dominant, fresh defensive legs when we're a goal or more up. That's his only ability,really: great tackling and decent marking. He probably should've been made a centre half earlier in his career but maybe is hurt by his ability in the air. Anyway, he's too one dimensional; we should be aiming for our central midfielders to be able to marshall the team, split defences with passes and play both ways. I would be intent on improving the right back position, where Brennan's play has become sloppier and sloppier as the season has progressed, and have him play a bench role. Gala should also get more time here to develop. Barrett has blown too many chances and made too many dopey runs to be an ideal first team striker, either. It's worth investigating playing him in the hole behind a single dominant striker, as he can pass, beat players and is aggressive, but sometimes lacks the finish. Sutton, while being a great shot-stopper in the box, is absolutely terrible on long drives and his positioning on set pieces is very suspect. He should probably be a backup, with Edwards being traded.

jloome
09-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Sorry, for some reason the site isn't allowing me to use paragraphs right now. Weird. This has happene before, so I"m sure it's one of my settings...