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NF-FC
09-15-2008, 08:22 PM
Listed below are the current Canidate cities with their potential owners, pros, cons, and current status.

St.Louis

Owner:
-Jeff Cooper & Friends (moderately rich)

Pros:
-”Soccer Hotbed”
-Plans for an SSS
-Large American market

Cons:
-suburban Collinsville location

Current status:
-Serious contender

Portland

Owner:
-Merritt Paulson (wealthy and has Super Rich Daddy)

Pros:
-Built in fanbase and supporters groups
-Existing stadium only need minor renovation
-North West rivalry with Seattle
-Rail transit to stadium

Cons:
-City is expected to pay for new ballpark and renovations to existing stadium

Current Status:
-Contender

New York II

Owner:
-Fred Wilpon (stupid rich Mets owner)

Pros:
-Proposed stadium next to Citi Field
-Large Market
-Cross marketing opportunities with Mets

Cons:

-Will New Yorkers take MLS seriously?
-Might hurt RedBulls

Current Status:
-Testing waters

Atlanta

Owner:
-Arthur Blank (rich Falcons owner)

Pros:
-Large TV market

Cons:
-Terrible Attendance for other pro teams
-No stadium plan
-Blank seems only half interested in getting a team

Current Status:
-Stagnate

Miami

Owner:
-None

Pros:
-Large TV market
-Brings MLS presence back to southeast
-One hell of an MLS Cup destination

Cons:
-Stadium plan collapsed
-No owner has stepped up to the plate
-Poor support of past teams and other current pro sports

Current Status:
-Stagnate

Las Vegas

Owner:
-?????????

Pros:
-Fast growing market
-Supposed retractable roof SSS on the strip

Cons:
-Fear of corruption from local gambling element
-Most residents will be at work (casino & resort staff) during the games

Current Status:
-Red Herring?

Montreal :canada:

Owner:
-Joey Saputo (cheese Billionaire) and possibly George Gillette (Habs owner)

Pros:
-SSS already built, easily expandable
-Easy to get to, 2 metro stops at the stadium
-Existing fanbase
-Big Rivalry with Toronto

Cons:
-It's in Canada
-Family atmosphere at games

Current Status:
-Serious Contender

Vancouver :canada:

Owner:
-Greg Kerfoot (stupid rich soccer philanthropist)

Pros:
-World class temp stadium, privatley funded SSS on the way (eventually)
-Rich local History
-Downtown setting
-Pacific north west rival for Seattle

Cons:
-It's in Canada

Current Status:
-Serious Contender

Ottawa :canada:

Owner:
-Eugene Melnyk (billionaire Sens owner)

Pros:
-SSS plan in place
-Great Toronto rivalry

Cons:

-Canada
-Unproven market
-Kanata location
-Stadium plan has stage, and would consider retro-fit for CFL

Current Status:
-Making last minute push

NF-FC
09-15-2008, 08:23 PM
can a mod please sticky this for further updates and any expansion discussion

adampz
09-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Good stuff NF-FC

Canary Canuck
09-15-2008, 09:42 PM
It would be nice to have more details from Wilpon on the NY2 bid. I'm assuming they'll all come out in the next month or so as the expansion application deadline looms. If he plans on financing the stadium himself then I like his chances ahead of St. Louis or Portland.

As for Portland, I like their bid but I just can't see the city footing that bill.

Atlanta is pointy ball country with horrible support for pro sports. I can't see it working there regardless of how big the city is

I think Montreal gets in for sure with NY2 and St. Louis battling for the 2nd spot in 2011.

sweetlemon69
09-15-2008, 10:09 PM
Miami as well has Barcelona interested in a partnership. If Barca is serious about that, then you can bet your ass Garber is going to choose Miami. I'd like to have Miami and Montreal next year.

MrHawk
09-15-2008, 10:10 PM
LAs Vegas would be an awesome place. Just for the trips, and having an SSS on the Las Vegas strip.

James17930
09-15-2008, 10:15 PM
Interesting interesting.

I think this is the only league where the off-field action is sometimes (if not mostly) more interesting than the on-field action.

james
09-15-2008, 10:23 PM
i would never consider BC Place a world class stadium!


The roof fell down last year, the stadium has a terrible atmosphere, they will play on ugly turf with ugly pointy lines.:mad:

RPB_Brantford_08
09-15-2008, 10:29 PM
i would never consider BC Place a world class stadium!


The roof fell down last year, the stadium has a terrible atmosphere, they will play on ugly turf with ugly pointy lines.:mad:


BC place is another outdated stadium, like Rogers Center..aka skydome
these type stadiums should have never been built, but they are here now.

james
09-15-2008, 10:32 PM
Also St.Louis isn't that big of a city/market. St.Louis is the 52nd biggest city in USA. Its population 353,000. I do think a city that size could support a team if the city really get behind it....but St.Louis? im not to sure, i don't picture them supporting there team much better then Kansas or Colorado do even tho many people claim St.Louis is a "soccer Hotbed" just because alot of kids play soccer, this doesn't mean they are gonna go to the games. And how come if St.Louis is such a good soccer city why have they never had any Soccer team at the pro level? one would think they could of had at least a USL team if the fan demand was high enough!

Ossington Mental Youth
09-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Dont really see Atlanta, Miami or Las Vegas as real expansion candidates, they seem to be more wishful thinking as opposed to realistic.

RealG-TFC
09-16-2008, 05:54 AM
i would never consider BC Place a world class stadium!


The roof fell down last year, the stadium has a terrible atmosphere, they will play on ugly turf with ugly pointy lines.:mad:

Think before you speak. There is going to be a huge Renovation of the place.

http://media.canada.com/1ceaa7d7-3889-4f4c-9003-991895e62419/stad-art.jpg

ensco
09-16-2008, 07:35 AM
Also St.Louis isn't that big of a city/market. St.Louis is the 52nd biggest city in USA. Its population 353,000. I do think a city that size could support a team if the city really get behind it....but St.Louis? im not to sure, i don't picture them supporting there team much better then Kansas or Colorado do even tho many people claim St.Louis is a "soccer Hotbed" just because alot of kids play soccer, this doesn't mean they are gonna go to the games. And how come if St.Louis is such a good soccer city why have they never had any Soccer team at the pro level? one would think they could of had at least a USL team if the fan demand was high enough!

St Louis is 19th in terms of MSA, which is what you should use for these calcs....

Detroit_TFC
09-16-2008, 07:45 AM
Good summary, thanks!

BTW, I think MLS bigwigs think of these matters in terms of media market, rather than just simply city or metro population.

arbogast
09-16-2008, 08:14 AM
Has Saputo made a submission yet?

because to my recollection he hasn't and there's been no formal partnership with Gillett, leaving MTL out of the hunt

Fort York Redcoat
09-16-2008, 08:23 AM
Good summary, thanks!

BTW, I think MLS bigwigs think of these matters in terms of media market, rather than just simply city or metro population.

Good point! Just edit the first post to include media marketing for all and leave it for reference, sticky and avoid a million threads about the eternal expansion.

Perfect.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 08:26 AM
Dont think medias as much a big deal as it used to be, i think theyd rather have a successful team then a team in a big media market (see NYRB, Chivas vs Toronto)

rockxlee
09-16-2008, 09:38 AM
Miami as well has Barcelona interested in a partnership. If Barca is serious about that, then you can bet your ass Garber is going to choose Miami. I'd like to have Miami and Montreal next year.

Didn't Miami already have a team?
Even though there is a large latino community in Miami the majority are cuban, baseball is their game. I really don't think Miami would work.

Accrording to some people on the forum, Portland, is actually a soccer city.

Still no Detroit on the list....

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Detroit will never be on the list

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 09:47 AM
Portland is a soccer city, they get 30k out for the womens national team regularly

Mark in Ottawa
09-16-2008, 10:08 AM
Ottawa had their news conference this AM.
Announced intentions of building a stadium outside of the cities rapid transit corridor in Kanata. :( In my opinion a bad move.

They also stated that they would not rule out the possibility of using the soccer stadium to host a professional football (thats pointy ball) team in the future. :banghead:

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 10:09 AM
as ive said previously, i wouldnt stress it, i dont think Ottawa is getting a team, especially if they are saying shit like that

Chewy Unikronik
09-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Didn't Miami already have a team?
Even though there is a large latino community in Miami the majority are cuban, baseball is their game. I really don't think Miami would work.

Too bad they never actually played IN Miami.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-16-2008, 10:51 AM
Ottawa had their news conference this AM.
Announced intentions of building a stadium outside of the cities rapid transit corridor in Kanata. :( In my opinion a bad move.

They also stated that they would not rule out the possibility of using the soccer stadium to host a professional football (thats pointy ball) team in the future. :banghead:

New teams require plans to be in place for soccer-specific stadiums. Given the size of the Ottawa market, the stadium location (and possible multi-use), and the fact that Ottawa is a Canadian city, I don't see how MLS could take this bid seriously.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 10:57 AM
New teams require plans to be in place for soccer-specific stadiums. Given the size of the Ottawa market, the stadium location (and possible multi-use), and the fact that Ottawa is a Canadian city, I don't see how MLS could take this bid seriously.

yessir, agreed in full

Vindaloo
09-16-2008, 11:58 AM
This is a great new thread of this topic NF-FC!


BC Place(1983) - it will essentially look like Commerzbank Arena(1925) in Frankfurt. The opening in the roof will be rounded but the technology and the open area going right around the rim beam and roofing is almost the same. They will have to figure in end-zones for throwball games obviously but Commerzbank did the same successfully. The Whitecaps will be at BC Place temporarily.

The stadium is in two construction phases. Phase 1 is refurbishing the stadium for the Olympics and Phase 2 will be roof construction after the Olympics but in time of the MLS 2011 season. New playing field(made soccer friendly), new seating, concourses, concessions, restrooms, lighting, suites, exterior renovations, exterior concourse reconstruction with retail, adjacent retail and residential including a tower. The entire precinct around the stadium and how it connects to it will be completely transformed.

Commerzbank Arena football match, roof open.
http://i34.tinypic.com/23wk31j.jpg
Roof closed at Commerzbank Arena throwball game.
http://i37.tinypic.com/25z563m.jpg
BC Place refurbished and planned precinct. All adjacent property is new.
http://i37.tinypic.com/15hfwqo.jpg

Angelo1405
09-16-2008, 12:08 PM
http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg


Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...

Vindaloo
09-16-2008, 12:13 PM
That is very nice! Hopefully this will get Montreal a kick in the ass to makes something the same when they expand. The second design for Vancouver's waterfront stadium is on par with this, if not better. They just need to build the damn thing already.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-16-2008, 12:23 PM
I think its the harbor front authority that needs to make up its bloody mind

Detroit_TFC
09-16-2008, 12:28 PM
Detroit will never be on the list

I wouldn't say never, but it is very unlikely. A few years ago the local PDL owners tried to foment a movement to get a team it didn't catch on. Much more likely that a USL-1 team is set up somewhere in Michigan, if not in Detroit.

There is a group of footie fans who are launching a grassroots campaign a la Sons of Ben but, at least at their last meeting, no billionaires in attendance. :(

Vindaloo
09-16-2008, 12:28 PM
That's right. It's the Port of Vancouver or now the VFPA. They only exist with the sole purpose of successful operation of the Port. They don't really give a toss about what the city needs or wants. I suppose I can see their point but...

Marc"2L"
09-16-2008, 12:54 PM
http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg


Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...

Ottawa is out,
"We are incredibly fortunate to have the option here in Ottawa of leveraging the expertise of Senators Sports & Entertainment and the operational and design synergies associated with situating the new stadium next to Scotiabank Place. We intend to take full advantage of those synergies," said Melnyk.

Melnyk doesn't understand how this works. That stadium is also a rendering put together in a few days for the presser. I highly doubt it would look anything like that.

nfitz
09-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...Ottawa? It's in farm fields somewhere west of Kanata. Leapfrogged Stittsville perhaps!

Marc"2L"
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
Ottawa? It's in farm fields somewhere west of Kanata. Leapfrogged Stittsville perhaps!

HA...ZING!

Ottawa is cooked.

bangersandmash
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
Even though I hate the idea of another canadian team snatching up a portion of the canadian talent I would support an Ottawa team -- if the team was downtown. Stick it out in Kanata I will use my veto to kill the project (I have a veto, right?). And if Ottawa was smart, they have "Diplomatic suites." Seriously, get all those embassy employees out cheering for a club. Build the club by appealing to people who grew up watching the game.

phonzo
09-16-2008, 01:19 PM
Melnyk doesn't understand how this works. That stadium is also a rendering put together in a few days for the presser. I highly doubt it would look anything like that.

Of course not...look at all those fans :p

Vindaloo
09-16-2008, 01:45 PM
Here's what I reckon the MLS expansion bids are at. The deadline is 15 Oct. 2008.


- Vancouver. Officially bid and application in. Investor group in place.

- Ottawa. Officially bid. Application in? Investor group in place.

- Montreal. Not officially bid? Application in? Additional investors(Gillette) not in place yet. No formal announcement anyway, so who knows?

- St Louis. Not officially bid. Additional investors yet?(28 Aug - St Louis MLS bid "expects to have all the necessary paperwork turned in ahead of the deadline. With what Cooper(owner) hopes is an investor group that has resources sufficient to the league's liking")

- Portland. Not Officially bid. Additional investors(in the form of City tax dollars) not in place.

Cashcleaner
09-16-2008, 02:05 PM
http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg

Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...

Where did you get that pic? Also, that's a pretty cool crest for the club. If people don't recognise it, it's incorporating the Ottawa City emblem.

T_Mizz
09-16-2008, 02:07 PM
I'd be on board with an all canadian expansion in 2011 with Montreal and Vancouver (that way MLS can keep its stupid conference system), but let's not forget that after 2011, assuming a 2 team expansion there will only be room enough for 2 more teams so that will be taken into account when the league makes it's decision.
I think they may opt to award the teams to bids that are less formal, based solely on what they feel the upside could be. IE. awarding a second NY team because of how gigantic the market is as opposed to Portland which has a more complete bid in place.

T_Mizz
09-16-2008, 02:08 PM
http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg


Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...
Pfft world-class? anything looks world-class with that much light, my backyard is world-class with that much light

Shaughno
09-16-2008, 02:15 PM
Ottawa is out,
"We are incredibly fortunate to have the option here in Ottawa of leveraging the expertise of Senators Sports & Entertainment and the operational and design synergies associated with situating the new stadium next to Scotiabank Place. We intend to take full advantage of those synergies," said Melnyk.

Melnyk doesn't understand how this works. That stadium is also a rendering put together in a few days for the presser. I highly doubt it would look anything like that.


That's a pretty nice rendering. No way would someone waste that much time and money to 'put it together in a few days (doubt that) for the presser.' I mean, it can be done but there is some serious thought involved in that rendering. :p

AFO1981
09-16-2008, 02:18 PM
Pfft world-class? anything looks world-class with that much light, my backyard is world-class with that much light
Maybe you should bid for a team.

AFO1981
09-16-2008, 02:19 PM
Ottawa is out,
"We are incredibly fortunate to have the option here in Ottawa of leveraging the expertise of Senators Sports & Entertainment and the operational and design synergies associated with situating the new stadium next to Scotiabank Place. We intend to take full advantage of those synergies," said Melnyk.

Melnyk doesn't understand how this works. That stadium is also a rendering put together in a few days for the presser. I highly doubt it would look anything like that.

I would bet he knows how this works.

T_Mizz
09-16-2008, 02:21 PM
Maybe you should bid for a team.
Yeah but all I have is the stadium no fan support or media or money

rocker
09-16-2008, 02:21 PM
it's just the same U-shaped bowl of Chicago and Philly's, same general roof idea, same stage with a couple surface differences. i'm sure Melnyk went with Rossetti architects cuz they could recycle every other conceptual diagram they've done.. like this one for the original Metrostars stadium:

http://governing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/metrostars_stadium.jpg

james
09-16-2008, 04:29 PM
Think before you speak. There is going to be a huge Renovation of the place.

http://media.canada.com/1ceaa7d7-3889-4f4c-9003-991895e62419/stad-art.jpg

well that is a very nice inproved stadium....but its still way to big for an MLS team to fill. And it looks like it will have pointy lines on the turf.

I say give Vancouver a team once they sort out there new stadium deal because at this rate if they get a team and play in BC they will never end up moving out of BC Place and scrap the idea of building a Soccer specific stadium!

james
09-16-2008, 04:33 PM
http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg


Ottawa's World Class Stadium....i think they've just 'leapfrogged' vancouver and maybe Montreal here...

i dont think ottawa have officially made any stadium deals yet. They just know there is alot of empty land near where the Ottawa Senators play since they play in fucken bum fuck no where. I bet Ottawa could never support a team in Kanata and they would rather use the stadium to get back another CFL team so the MLS team would probably be always 2nd tenent in that stadium.

Fuck Ottawa, Montreal and Vancouver are much better cities for a MLS team then Ottawa is.

DinamoTFC
09-16-2008, 05:10 PM
New ad for Real Salt Lake's stadium.


http://www.j-four.com/videos/RSL.mov

TFCREDNWHITE
09-16-2008, 05:44 PM
Think before you speak. There is going to be a huge Renovation of the place.




Why the hell would the The Vancouver Whitecaps want to play their MLS games in a 50,000 seat stadium!?!?! Their is NO WAY they would even come close to filling that!!!

Vindaloo
09-16-2008, 06:33 PM
They don't. Well they have no choice until their own stadium is built so being at BC Place is temporary and better than nothing.

Part of the conditions for Vancouver getting a franchise from MLS is if they build their own SSS. This will happen, it's just a matter of time. The Port and 'Caps owner, Kerfoot, (who owns air rights over rail lands) need to figure out their rail land dispute or the 'Caps need to go elsewhere. Kerfoot has already spent millions on land at this spot and with a prime location with transport links consisting of 3 metro lines, commuter line, future tram line, ferry, it's the logical choice.

Whitecaps main priority is still to build their own SSS. They have said this many times.

Redcoe15
09-16-2008, 07:15 PM
Vancouver has a bid in. If Montreal hasn't put their bid in yet, then it's only a matter of time before they do (I think they've got other things on their minds right now, like the CONCACAF Champions League). From what I've read about St. Louis, Jeff Cooper, the frontman for the bid, has gotten the last criteria in place for a team, two American investors and one from Europe.

As for the others, Portland is a favourite of mine. But I'm not quite sure where the money will come from for a refurbished stadium. While I see the benefits of a second New York team in MLS, I would rather wait until the first one, RBNY, moves into their new stadium next year, sells out the joint and creates a buzz in the air BEFORE committing to a second team. And I cannot see this fascination of returning to Miami with the Barcelona brand wrapped around it. It's nothing but a lot of rumours and wishful thinking. And Garber never even mentioned them in his presser in Toronto. How desperate would the league be in returning to a market they pulled the plug on years ago with a major owner from way out of town? Atlanta? Las Vegas? Long shots.

And Ottawa? Eugene Melnyk may have some soccer roots in his background. But Ottawa looks like another Columbus and Salt Lake City, especially if he puts the team out in the Kanata boonies.

My prediction/hope? It's St. Louis and either Montreal and Vancouver for the next two slots.

LucaGol
09-16-2008, 07:39 PM
Why do all these stadiums f*ckin look the same?

Architects lame checklist for MLS SSS:

1. Shallow seating .. check

2. One open end .. check

3. Half assed roof covering not more than 35% of the fans ... check

4. Crappy concourse .. check.

5. Make it look like an erector set stadium built by a 5 year old .. check.

adampz
09-16-2008, 07:53 PM
^Thats how Ottawa's looks. Im not worried about an open end, there will be 30 000 seats anyways. The roof, ya that sucks, hopefully they could do something about that, and I cant tell now what the concourse is like.

RealG-TFC
09-16-2008, 08:57 PM
Why do all these stadiums f*ckin look the same?

Architects lame checklist for MLS SSS:

1. Shallow seating .. check

2. One open end .. check

3. Half assed roof covering not more than 35% of the fans ... check

4. Crappy concourse .. check.

5. Make it look like an erector set stadium built by a 5 year old .. check.

It may be an American thing. If you notice, most NFL stadia look the same too.

vergilg
09-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Ottawa had their news conference this AM.
Announced intentions of building a stadium outside of the cities rapid transit corridor in Kanata. :( In my opinion a bad move.

They also stated that they would not rule out the possibility of using the soccer stadium to host a professional football (thats pointy ball) team in the future. :banghead:



1. Having a stage is a good idea - lots of revenue from outdoor concerts and big tours.

2. Melnyk and Co. doesn't want to rule out American football being played in the stadium because like any good businessman you don't want to burn any bridges. The design already includes natural grass pitch (better than BMO in that regard) and a very good soccer capacity of 30,000 (which is better than both the Imapact and TFC)


3. The location is off the highway with ample parking space. It's never been a problem for Sens games or concerts, especially with the newly added highway lanes. The stadium location is a 20min drive from the downtown core - quite reasonable.

That way Melnyk will not have to deal with the downtown old-timers who write and call their local MPs and bitch about people enjoying themselves outside in the summer (and making noise at a soccer game or what not). And he won't have to deal with the city or a joint ownership group for Landsdowne park - WHICH WILL LIKELY REMAIN ARTIFICIAL TURF SURFACE.

4. Rapid transit in the city of ottawa won't be a reality for another 10 years min. They are still fighting WHERE TO START (east, west, downtown, south)... I hope we have a team long before that!

adampz
09-16-2008, 09:55 PM
Vergilg are you living in ottawa?

james
09-16-2008, 09:58 PM
Why do all these stadiums f*ckin look the same?

Architects lame checklist for MLS SSS:

1. Shallow seating .. check

2. One open end .. check

3. Half assed roof covering not more than 35% of the fans ... check

4. Crappy concourse .. check.

5. Make it look like an erector set stadium built by a 5 year old .. check.

1 reason is they are cheap to build.

2 reson would be because many teams don't know how well season ticket sales will go. If season ticket sales do very well they can easily expand the stadium in the future. also they can expand these stadiums for big events.

3 reason would probably be because it saves time to just copy other stadiums rather then come up wtih more complicated designs.

4 reason would be that many stadium need to host concerts to bring in any money. Some teams dont get much money off the soccer games.


I would like to see some more stadiums like Red Bulls but most teams already got there new SSS's so no way they are getting new stadiums for a long time. All you could do is hope for some major expansion in these stadiums further down the road. I exspecially hope for TFC to expand the stadium!