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View Full Version : Mets Officially Want A Second MLS Team for New York



Redcoe15
09-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Looks as if NY Mets owner Fred Wilpon has officially declared his interest in bringing a second MLS side to New York. Despite the first one averaging 12,000 per game. And the blogger takes a swipe at Joey Saputo as well.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2024

Yet, despite the insanity of it, MLS may just give these guys one of the two expansion slots, and deny both Montreal and Vancouver a place in the league, because Garber, who is from New York, is chasing big advertising dollars from the league. Something New York can offer but Mtl and Vcr may not.

el rojo fanatico
09-11-2008, 08:21 PM
Its about time New York really gets a football team

werewolf
09-11-2008, 08:22 PM
wonder if they will rename the old one New Jersey again.

ensco
09-11-2008, 08:26 PM
Yet, despite the insanity of it, MLS may just give these guys one of the two expansion slots, and deny both Montreal and Vancouver a place in the league, because Garber, who is from New York, is chasing big advertising dollars from the league. Something New York can offer but Mtl and Vcr may not.

I would love to see Montreal and Vancouver get in. But it's tough - having 3 non-US teams in a 20 team league has a real cost in terms of lost TV ratings potential.

NY2 isn't "insanity", btw. Football is all about derbies.

werewolf
09-11-2008, 08:27 PM
umm also, look at the "author".

SilverSamurai
09-11-2008, 08:40 PM
umm also, look at the "author".
LOL -it's true.
But it's not just Saputo, but Gillette as well...
I do hope Montreal get's in though. Show the league what a real rivalry is.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-11-2008, 11:09 PM
It's good that there's demand for expansion slots, as it's a sign of stability in the league. Still, it sucks that some cities won't get teams, even though there are a few cities that have no business having MLS teams right now. The Kansas City-type teams need to be weeded out of the league. A city such as Montreal should not be denied entry because there are one too many teams drawing 9,000 fans a game in minor league ballparks.

rocker
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
if NY gets one of the next teams, i think montreal would have to take a backseat and wait til 19 or 20. they wouldn't want to have 2 new teams in the east and would probably prefer to balance it out with a western team in each expansion.
so if NY is in for 17, maybe it means Vanny has a better shot than Montreal for number 18. It would give the west another team, and it would give a close rival for Seattle, which will have a pretty huge travel schedule.
Then maybe go Montreal for 19, in the east, and St Louis or Portland for 20 in the west.

Shakes McQueen
09-12-2008, 12:32 AM
if NY gets one of the next teams, i think montreal would have to take a backseat and wait til 19 or 20. they wouldn't want to have 2 new teams in the east and would probably prefer to balance it out with a western team in each expansion.
so if NY is in for 17, maybe it means Vanny has a better shot than Montreal for number 18. It would give the west another team, and it would give a close rival for Seattle, which will have a pretty huge travel schedule.
Then maybe go Montreal for 19, in the east, and St Louis or Portland for 20 in the west.

The league is set to have an unbalanced schedule next season anyway, with the entry of Seattle.

Two Eastern Conference teams would simply unbalance the conferences the other way.

I think you'll see teams wherever they are most likely to succeed. I doubt which conference they would fall in, is even a secondary consideration.

- Scott

Redcoe15
09-12-2008, 04:11 AM
NY2 isn't "insanity", btw. Football is all about derbies.
It's insanity because RBNY is drawing shit in a building that once drew 70,000 for New York Cosmos and that the obnoxious brats who won't go to support the team want a second New York team in the area over the hopes of soccer hungry cities like Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis and Portland who don't have one team. I would rather RBNY start drawing crowds in their new pitch in Harrison and creating a buzz before putting a second team in New York.

jloome
09-12-2008, 06:22 AM
I would love to see Montreal and Vancouver get in. But it's tough - having 3 non-US teams in a 20 team league has a real cost in terms of lost TV ratings potential.

NY2 isn't "insanity", btw. Football is all about derbies.

Yeah, and I bet they work out a shared lease deal, too, a la LA. I think this is quite possible and probably good for the league. As a Toronto fan, I'd kind of prefer to see one of either Montreal or Vancouver on the outside looking in, as well. Let them wait a decade until the inevitable USL merger.

Consider that LA and Chivas sell out their derbies because they share space; sure, that only averages to 13.500 attendance each but 1) that's actually not bad, on a global basis, and 2) it's better than Chivas gets for non-LA games.

Fort York Redcoat
09-12-2008, 06:39 AM
I think it would be best if they let the NY area respond to the NYRB move first. They can see a growth in popularity (regardless of the reason that it's just somthing new) and then give the NYRB a rival. I think there are more people just waiting for the convenience of a real NY team but there will be some who switch. Granted the NY team will be closer to many of them.

NF-FC
09-12-2008, 09:03 AM
Yeah, and I bet they work out a shared lease deal, too, a la LA. I think this is quite possible and probably good for the league. As a Toronto fan, I'd kind of prefer to see one of either Montreal or Vancouver on the outside looking in, as well. Let them wait a decade until the inevitable USL merger.

Consider that LA and Chivas sell out their derbies because they share space; sure, that only averages to 13.500 attendance each but 1) that's actually not bad, on a global basis, and 2) it's better than Chivas gets for non-LA games.

You're missing the point. Wilpon wants to build a new stadium in Queens. it's basically on the other side of Manhattan from Harrison, but it's actually in New York. There is no way they would share stadiums.

On a side note, i get the idea of slow expansion but it's getting painful. Just bring in Portland, Vancouver. Montreal, NYII, and move Columbus to St.Louis and get it over with.

Beach_Red
09-12-2008, 09:59 AM
On a side note, i get the idea of slow expansion but it's getting painful. Just bring in Portland, Vancouver. Montreal, NYII, and move Columbus to St.Louis and get it over with.

I like this idea. Just get it done.

Slow growth is all well and fine, but when there's an opportunity, you should take it.

Angelo1405
09-12-2008, 10:20 AM
give RBNY time to grow fans, popularity, attendance, etc. see how it go's...Then give NYC the new team...imagine if the Yankees buy RB, baseball fans would be choosing futebol sides now based on their rivalry :D but, this would be a great thing, a chance for NY to see a real rivalry:)

Portland + Montreal first (cause theyre ready), NYC + Vancouver + St. Louis. give them time to build their stadium/grow...and you got a nice league and let history do the rest :D

I_AM_CANADIAN
09-12-2008, 10:42 AM
Seems a bit hasty, especially seeing as nobody cares about the Red Bulls.

Vindaloo
09-12-2008, 04:46 PM
Portland + Montreal first (cause theyre ready), NYC + Vancouver + St. Louis. give them time to build their stadium/grow...and you got a nice league and let history do the rest :D

Where on god's Earth do people get this consistent idea that Portland is anywhere near where Vancouver is in the process of a franchise? It's mind blowing!

Portland

- Merritt Paulson(owner) will pay for the expansion fee. City is on the hook for everything else!

- Portland need to renovate the current baseball stadium(PGE Park) into an SSS.(Of course it won't be, see below).

- The current baseball team, the Beavers, need to vacate and move into a whole new stadium paid for by who? The City.

- There is no sound plan on how they will finance the two stadiums.

- PGE Park would possibly be funded through bonds to be paid for by ticket taxes and it requires full faith and credit of the city to back those bonds.

- The City has given it's support but has not agreed to any finance plans.

- PGE Park will also be shared with the University of Portland football team, where they also currently play. Paulson himself has admitted to this. So there goes the SSS out the window.

- PGE Park will also temporarily share with the Portland Beavers baseball team, like it currently does, until they locate to a new stadium.

- Grass pitch? Not likely due to U of P football team sharing the place along with the temp baseball team.

- Paulson quotes on financing, "the City must show its commitment to back a team. It's going to be tough. It's going to be a tight timeline."

- Portland's MLS expansion bid is due by 15 Oct. Vancouver's? Already done.


Vancouver

- Expansion fee and new stadium plans completely financed through a wealthy private investment group. No public money is hinging on their plan like Portland.

- Vancouver already has a temporary stadium. BC Place will be finished with a $200-300m refurbishment with a retractable roof for the 2011 season. Portland's plan hinges on the public to pay for it's stadium.

- Vancouver's temporary stadium will be shared with a football(grid-iron) team, just like Portland and Seattle. The difference, Vancouver is only using their shared digs temporarily.


Sorry about the extended explanation but it's gets a bit much when you hear how Portland has such an advantage over Vancouver or Montreal.

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50157384imgp0076ua0.jpg

Parkdale
09-12-2008, 05:12 PM
oh.... Bill Archer?

I don't even bother reading that twat's rantings anymore.

flatpicker
09-12-2008, 05:15 PM
I have a feeling we will be reaching 20 teams in the league sooner than expected.

Chevy
09-12-2008, 08:07 PM
I think it would be best if they let the NY area respond to the NYRB move first. They can see a growth in popularity (regardless of the reason that it's just somthing new) and then give the NYRB a rival. I think there are more people just waiting for the convenience of a real NY team but there will be some who switch. Granted the NY team will be closer to many of them.


Excellent point. There would be nothing worse that having two NY teams playing in front of 10,000 each as opposed to one playing in front of 20,000.

TFCREDNWHITE
09-13-2008, 02:33 PM
I would love to see Montreal and Vancouver get in. But it's tough - having 3 non-US teams in a 20 team league has a real cost in terms of lost TV ratings potential.

NY2 isn't "insanity", btw. Football is all about derbies.


You have to realize that where they "might" lose in US TV Ratings they will gain "BIG" dollars in Canada by tying in a National Advertising revenue from having Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto...that will tie in a national revenue stream for the MLS!!

adampz
09-13-2008, 02:37 PM
Does anybody else think that the redbulls lack of support, is because they are out in jersey? What if the team was in bronx, queens, or brooklyn, do you think they would have better support then?

DinamoTFC
09-13-2008, 05:09 PM
Does anybody else think that the redbulls lack of support, is because they are out in jersey? What if the team was in bronx, queens, or brooklyn, do you think they would have better support then?

Yes, thats one of the biggest reasons New Yorkers don't support the team. It's because the people from the City see it as a jersey team and not a real New York team.

Second issue is that New York currently plays at Giant Stadium in the middle of nowhere where theres no public transportation. (Imagine if we didnt have the Go train or TTC to get to BMO field). But now with the creation of Red Bull Arena, there will be public transportation linking the NJ and NY region which should definately raise attendance.

and lastly, New Yorkers from Queens feel that Giants stadium/harrison is extremely far from them and takes forever to get their by car (distance and traffic!). They say that a team in Queens will market a completely different region of fans that would otherwise not support RBNY.

BBBulldog
09-14-2008, 03:31 AM
there's NY1?

Cashcleaner
09-14-2008, 03:47 AM
You have to realize that where they "might" lose in US TV Ratings they will gain "BIG" dollars in Canada by tying in a National Advertising revenue from having Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto...that will tie in a national revenue stream for the MLS!!

So true. Canadian sport fans typically divide their support between the big three cities when their own areas don't have a pro team. Let's face it, pretty much every soccer fan in Ontario who wants to follow a pro team will follow Toronto FC. Almost everyone in Quebec will do the same with the Impact if there was more exposure. Maybe not everyone in Western Canada will follow the Whitecaps in MLS, but I bet most soccer fans in BC will.

And there you have it, soccer fans spread out all over the nation. A nation that happens to have a public-owned broadcasting company. Not much to connect the dots when you think of it.

RealG-TFC
09-14-2008, 07:37 AM
Where on god's Earth do people get this consistent idea that Portland is anywhere near where Vancouver is in the process of a franchise? It's mind blowing!

Portland

- Merritt Paulson(owner) will pay for the expansion fee. City is on the hook for everything else!

- Portland need to renovate the current baseball stadium(PGE Park) into an SSS.(Of course it won't be, see below).

- The current baseball team, the Beavers, need to vacate and move into a whole new stadium paid for by who? The City.

- There is no sound plan on how they will finance the two stadiums.

- PGE Park would possibly be funded through bonds to be paid for by ticket taxes and it requires full faith and credit of the city to back those bonds.

- The City has given it's support but has not agreed to any finance plans.

- PGE Park will also be shared with the University of Portland football team, where they also currently play. Paulson himself has admitted to this. So there goes the SSS out the window.

- PGE Park will also temporarily share with the Portland Beavers baseball team, like it currently does, until they locate to a new stadium.

- Grass pitch? Not likely due to U of P football team sharing the place along with the temp baseball team.

- Paulson quotes on financing, "the City must show its commitment to back a team. It's going to be tough. It's going to be a tight timeline."

- Portland's MLS expansion bid is due by 15 Oct. Vancouver's? Already done.


Vancouver

- Expansion fee and new stadium plans completely financed through a wealthy private investment group. No public money is hinging on their plan like Portland.

- Vancouver already has a temporary stadium. BC Place will be finished with a $200-300m refurbishment with a retractable roof for the 2011 season. Portland's plan hinges on the public to pay for it's stadium.

- Vancouver's temporary stadium will be shared with a football(grid-iron) team, just like Portland and Seattle. The difference, Vancouver is only using their shared digs temporarily.


Sorry about the extended explanation but it's gets a bit much when you hear how Portland has such an advantage over Vancouver or Montreal.

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50157384imgp0076ua0.jpg

Thanks for that. I think people only assume Portland because of their fan support, completely forgetting it's financial support.

ensco
09-14-2008, 09:15 AM
These discussions over cities like Portland, Vancouver, Ottawa etc are a waste of time. Those cities are very unlikely to get an MLS team.

Ranking likelihood of getting in based on who is holding pressers doesn't make sense.

Just because a candidate city is geographically connected to an existing MLS city and/or has a decent USL following, is not really important.....

Here's a link that should be stickied for any expansion conversation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_Area

If Montreal were on this list, it would be 15th (MSA of 3.5 million), so they have a chance.

Vancouver and Ottawa wouldn't come close to making it on that list.

Notice the big cities that aren't in yet - Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, San Diego, Detroit and Phoenix (this last one only if they can get a workable indoor/outdoor stadium - it's simply too hot in the summer otherwise). That's where MLS wants to go. Bigger population equals better market, and better national TV potential (which is the holy grail). Period.

Looking at the sheer size of NY and LA, it's easy to see why two teams in each makes sense. These derbies would also be more compelling nationally than Seattle-Portland or Toronto-Ottawa.

Remember, MLS is probably capped at 20 teams.

The last 4 teams to get in are San Jose (ranked # 12 on that list), Toronto (would be number 7), Seattle(15) and Philly (5).

Columbus (ranked 29th) and Kansas City are probably going to move - bet on it.

Canary Canuck
09-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Miami is quickly moving up the list with Barcelona's interest in owning a team there.

Redcoe15
09-14-2008, 03:50 PM
Miami is quickly moving up the list with Barcelona's interest in owning a team there.
Barcelona is exploring the possibility of owning a team. And it might not be in Miami. It could be, for all we know, Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio. Whether they'll take the plunge or not is anybody's guess.

And Miami doesn't have a suitable revenue producing stadium in place. The mayor had a straw grasping plan late last year about putting up half the cost of a SSS with a prospective owner covering the other half. But since nobody stepped forward that idea has all but shriveled up. The city's got other plans about a baseball stadium for the Marlins to play in. MLS to Miami is a red herring as far as I'm concerned.

james
09-15-2008, 10:42 PM
If New York got a 2nd team i couldnt see Red Bulls surviving!

Ossington Mental Youth
09-15-2008, 10:48 PM
Theyve got the backing and the stadium(soon enough), their supporter might be tiny but they will still exist