Could San Jose actually make the playoffs??

[Baggio2TFC]

I don't mean to rub salt in the wound(was gonna say something else but though I'd keep it clean) but, San Jose is just 2 points out of a playoff spot and 2 points up on our boys. Not to mention huckerby scored again!!

WTF!!!!!:eek:

[rocker]

they should thank us for Hucks and O'Brien.
O'Brien was ours before the turf became an issue with him... and Hucks was our discovery signing until he too wanted to go elsewhere.

[kdzb]

they should thank us for Hucks and O'Brien

I hope you are kidding Rocker:eek:
Last time I checked, It's our management with their stupid " turf is great" mentality that couldn't hold on into them.
Hope SJ will make the playoffs and do well. That will put big pressure into MLSE to move forward with this issue.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Im sure they can possibly make it, i hope they choke and dont, Theyve had a run of good luck and playing whereas we've had the opposite (especially with games we honestly have no excuse losing).

[AL-MO]

This should be the ultimate wake up call. If SJ finishes with more points than us, this season will be a failure.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This should be the ultimate wake up call. If SJ finishes with more points than us, this season will be a failure.

well i dunno bout that, they did have an advantage of signing Yallop who is a seasoned league vet with alot of connections etc

[Ossington Mental Youth]

thats not to say i wouldnt be a bit bitter

[giambac]

This should be the ultimate wake up call. If SJ finishes with more points than us, this season will be a failure.

Al Mo,

I agree 100%.

we all know it's been a diffficult and frustrating season. However , if SJ makes the playoffs in their expansion season it will really hit the nail on the head. It seems alot of people have excused our players, manager and coach because it's only our 2nd season. If SJ makes the playoffs they can throw that excuse away becasue it will truly reflect the failure of a season it has been.

I guess there is always next year.

[RealG-TFC]

Actually if we don't make the playoffs the season will be a failure, if SJ ends up with more points, that's just icing on the unfortunate cake.

[Keyman]

Yes, San Jose will make the playoffs. They are playing very good football, and it's a shame to see us trailing them.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

fuck that....our season starts sat!!!!!

Beleive!!!! :)

[RPB_Brantford_08]

I don't mean to rub salt in the wound(was gonna say something else but though I'd keep it clean) but, San Jose is just 2 points out of a playoff spot and 2 points up on our boys. Not to mention huckerby scored again!!

WTF!!!!!:eek:


San Jose has been in the playoffs before and won the MLS Cup...

but TFC is building the right way....San Jose could make the playoffs this year and finish dead last next year...while Torontos progress is slower,
the direction they are taking is better all round.

[Marco2K]

fuck that....our season starts sat!!!!!

Beleive!!!! :)


I would love to. but we just dropped 6 points in a must win situation.

Now Columbus comes in. DAMN!!

[arsenal]

Yes they are better than us. Keep in mind ......

1) Easier to start up a team with American player pool. Canadian player pool was more shallow and expensive.

2) Western conference is much weaker than the Eastern conference.

3) Mortgaged the future for immediate success.
a) #1 overall pick for N Garcia
b) #1 next year & $$ for ROB

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I would love to. but we just dropped 6 points in a must win situation.

Now Columbus comes in. DAMN!!



saturday's is for a cup!!!....:D

lets blow the roof off BMO........oops minus the roof!

[jimiv]

Actually if we don't make the playoffs the season will be a failure, if SJ ends up with more points, that's just icing on the unfortunate cake.

I fully agree.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Yes they are better than us. Keep in mind ......

1) Easier to start up a team with American player pool. Canadian player pool was more shallow and expensive.

2) Western conference is much weaker than the Eastern conference.

3) Mortgaged the future for immediate success.
a) #1 overall pick for N Garcia
b) #1 next year & $$ for ROB

some very good and very overlooked points right here

[ensco]

SJ have a 33% chance, they need 12 points to have a 73% chance of getting in (ie win 4 of 7)

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS/West/Earthquakes.html

TFC have a 16% chance, we need 14 points to have a 70% chance

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Actually if we don't make the playoffs the season will be a failure, if SJ ends up with more points, that's just icing on the unfortunate cake.


it was unrealistic to expect the playoffs this year...we have one more win then last year so this season is already a success with more games still to go....we have been in more games this year then last... a success right there...We have Carver back as manager...success....were on the right track.

[AL-MO]

San Jose has been in the playoffs before and won the MLS Cup...

but TFC is building the right way....San Jose could make the playoffs this year and finish dead last next year...while Torontos progress is slower,
the direction they are taking is better all round.

Brantford, San Jose is a new team in the league. Same as we were last year. And yet they are respectable this year. The team that won the MLS Cup is in Houston.


And on what basis do you make this statement? Anything COULD happen next year.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Brantford, San Jose is a new team in the league. Same as we were last year. And yet they are respectable this year. The team that won the MLS Cup is in Houston.


On what basis do you make this statement? Anything COULD happen next year.

sure we could go 30-0......or 0-30.....San Jose new??

[AL-MO]

sure we could go 30-0......or 0-30.....San Jose new??

Pigs could fly and you could start a logical thread.

Anything is possible. ;)

[jloome]

I hope you are kidding Rocker:eek:
Last time I checked, It's our management with their stupid " turf is great" mentality that couldn't hold on into them.
Hope SJ will make the playoffs and do well. That will put big pressure into MLSE to move forward with this issue.

Trouble is, you didn't actually check. The turf was a condition of Toronto City council, not MLSE, in order for public money to go into the stadium.

[ensco]

The comparison between our second half last year, and SJ's this year, is pretty startling.

[ensco]

Trouble is, you didn't actually check. The turf was a condition of Toronto City council, not MLSE, in order for public money to go into the stadium.

This is correct.

The deal needed to be turf in order to get the team and BMO. Now we need a new deal, with grass. It's not MLSE's fault, and I trust that they are now working hard behind the scenes on it (at least I hope so)

[jloome]

This is correct.

The deal needed to be turf in order to get the team and BMO. Now we need a new deal, with grass. It's not MLSE's fault, and I trust that they are now working hard behind the scenes on it (at least I hope so)

I think they'll get it. I think it's becoming obvious to the city (as 50% recipients of concessions) where the bread is buttered on BMO, and the team now has the in-hand cash from the Edu deal to pay the freight. It'll cost about $3 million, if you assume $1.5 million for the pitch and a similar amount for underground heating pipes.

[LucaGol]

I think they'll get it. I think it's becoming obvious to the city (as 50% recipients of concessions) where the bread is buttered on BMO, and the team now has the in-hand cash from the Edu deal to pay the freight. It'll cost about $3 million, if you assume $1.5 million for the pitch and a similar amount for underground heating pipes.

This business about cost is getting blown out of proportion imo.

If the Charleston Battery can have a grass field ... so can the most successful franchise in North America.

Money should be no issue ... even if we are to have a pitch that can stand along side some of the best sod in European stadiums.

[giambac]

Yes they are better than us. Keep in mind ......

1) Easier to start up a team with American player pool. Canadian player pool was more shallow and expensive.

2) Western conference is much weaker than the Eastern conference.

3) Mortgaged the future for immediate success.
a) #1 overall pick for N Garcia
b) #1 next year & $$ for ROB


Anymore excuses you can think of?????

[Beach_Red]

I think they'll get it. I think it's becoming obvious to the city (as 50% recipients of concessions) where the bread is buttered on BMO, and the team now has the in-hand cash from the Edu deal to pay the freight. It'll cost about $3 million, if you assume $1.5 million for the pitch and a similar amount for underground heating pipes.

Yes, I think you're right. The best argument for grass now is that they'll make more money with it than they will with turf - because if they get better players they'll win more games and that means they get to play more home games. Not just playoffs, but Champions League. It's much less a risky investment now.

As far as San Jose making the playoffs, it's way to early to judge expansion teams. It's really common for the expansion tam that starts strong to fade quickly and be bad for a long time.

Still, I was expecting more from TFC this year, but there you go.

[giambac]

saturday's is for a cup!!!....:D

lets blow the roof off BMO........oops minus the roof!

We lost the CC cup to Montreal
We will miss out on the palyoffs perhaps even to an expansion SJ team
We will lose the Trillium Cup

0 for 3 . Strikeout!

And people think it's been a good year??? I'd hate to see what they think a bad year would be like.

[giambac]

it was unrealistic to expect the playoffs this year...we have one more win then last year so this season is already a success with more games still to go....we have been in more games this year then last... a success right there...We have Carver back as manager...success....were on the right track.

Yes we lost to Vancouver
Yes we tied Vanacouver and Montreal
Yes we couldn't beat an expansion team.
We've won 1 of our past 17 matches

I guess your right it's been a success:pbjtime: Braek out the champagne and let's make a toast.

[Beach_Red]

We lost the CC cup to Montreal
We will miss out on the palyoffs perhaps even to an expansion SJ team
We will lose the Trillium Cup

0 for 3 . Strikeout!

And people think it's been a good year??? I'd hate to see what they think a bad year would be like.

It's been a terrible year, but not because we lost those games, but HOW we lost. So many games in the last five minutes, so many games in the first half of the season (the CC games for sure) because of lack of effort. I really can't over the image of guys standing around with their hands on their hips - but we did get rid of those guys.

And that's why it wasn't a terrible year. Changes were made.

It would be a bad year right now if those same guys were still standing around with their hands on their hips.

[bangersandmash]

1. On finishing last two years in a row
Finishing last for a few years in a row is emberassing and painful for the fans, but eventually you rack up for or five first round draft picks and well, I'm not sure what happens then... any Pittsburgh Penguins fans out there want to explain how much they enjoyed last year after years of finishing last and picking up great draft picks?

2. SJ's success vs. TFCs success -- in the coming years
As someone else pointed out, SJ plays in the West, SJ didn't get ravaged by injuries, etc. etc. and importantly, SJ mortgaged their future. I'm hoping that TFC is building a long-term plan for success and our three 1st round draft picks (incl 2nd overall after Seattle) gives me hop.

3. Grass is coming, right?
No one knew that Toronto FC would bring the passionate support that it has (and the accompanying influx of money). Toronto City Council has funded sports stupidity before (rogers centre). The fact that they were prudent and tried to make sure that the city would have something useable even if the team failed was practical and probably wise. But note that the second Mo got his hands on a whack of cash what was the first thing he said? "Lets get some grass!" However, If he gets grass there will almost no room for excuses.

[ensco]

We lost the CC cup to Montreal
We will miss out on the palyoffs perhaps even to an expansion SJ team
We will lose the Trillium Cup

0 for 3 . Strikeout!

And people think it's been a good year??? I'd hate to see what they think a bad year would be like.

I'm sad we've lost so many games, but some really good things have happened this year. It's a topic for a different thread.

Personally I don't care if SJ finish ahead of us - if we'd kept O'Brien and signed Huckerby, then things would be different, we all know that.

As Don Shula (longtime coach of the NFL Miami Dolphins) said....Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck.

[giambac]

1. On finishing last two years in a row
Finishing last for a few years in a row is emberassing and painful for the fans, but eventually you rack up for or five first round draft picks and well, I'm not sure what happens then... any Pittsburgh Penguins fans out there want to explain how much they enjoyed last year after years of finishing last and picking up great draft picks?

2. SJ's success vs. TFCs success -- in the coming years
As someone else pointed out, SJ plays in the West, SJ didn't get ravaged by injuries, etc. etc. and importantly, SJ mortgaged their future. I'm hoping that TFC is building a long-term plan for success and our three 1st round draft picks (incl 2nd overall after Seattle) gives me hop.

3. Grass is coming, right?
No one knew that Toronto FC would bring the passionate support that it has (and the accompanying influx of money). Toronto City Council has funded sports stupidity before (rogers centre). The fact that they were prudent and tried to make sure that the city would have something useable even if the team failed was practical and probably wise. But note that the second Mo got his hands on a whack of cash what was the first thing he said? "Lets get some grass!" However, If he gets grass there will almost no room for excuses.

Again please correct me if i'm wrong. What fucken differenc edoes it make if we play in the east or West. Bottom line is SJ has more points then us.

There are only 14 teams in the league. There is a total of 30 gamesall teams pplay each other 2 times and a few teams 3 tims. The schedule is simailar. You are playing the same teams.

We couldn't beat SJ at home so what does the divison hav eto do with it??

[bangersandmash]

If the Charleston Battery can have a grass field ... so can the most successful franchise in North America.

The Charleston battery play in a climate that is much friendlier to grass (as do most European clubs). They have more days of sun, fewer days of snow, milder springs and autumns and their frost sets in later than ours does. Montreal having grass is more comparable to our situation and well, it looks like their grass was laid by people who were smoking it, too.

The kind of turf we demand is expensive. Making it playable in March and October is even more expensive. Seriously, it's raining tonight in Toronto. Wake up tomorrow morning, put on your wet-weather cleats and go out to your local park and see how easy it is to screw up the grass right down to the roots. Now do it for 90 minutes with 22 of your closest friends and imagine how hard it would be to make it pristine for the next week. Putting down grass is not a easy decision (from a cost point of view).

TFC needs grass, no questions (anymore). But maintaining the pitch with probably cost more than our most expensive non-DP player.

[Pachuco]

San Jose has been in the playoffs before and won the MLS Cup...

but TFC is building the right way....San Jose could make the playoffs this year and finish dead last next year...while Torontos progress is slower,
the direction they are taking is better all round.

That's a joke of a statement because I'm pretty sure you know nothing about SJ's young players.

[LucaGol]

The Charleston battery play in a climate that is much friendlier to grass (as do most European clubs). They have more days of sun, fewer days of snow, milder springs and autumns and their frost sets in later than ours does. Montreal having grass is more comparable to our situation and well, it looks like their grass was laid by people who were smoking it, too.

The kind of turf we demand is expensive. Making it playable in March and October is even more expensive. Seriously, it's raining tonight in Toronto. Wake up tomorrow morning, put on your wet-weather cleats and go out to your local park and see how easy it is to screw up the grass right down to the roots. Now do it for 90 minutes with 22 of your closest friends and imagine how hard it would be to make it pristine for the next week. Putting down grass is not a easy decision (from a cost point of view).

TFC needs grass, no questions (anymore). But maintaining the pitch with probably cost more than our most expensive non-DP player.

Ok, maybe I should rephrase my initial semi uninformed mini-rant ...

... if St. James' Park can have grass ... so can BMO Field.

As I said before, cost should not be an issue here ... Montreal had turf issues because they most likely have a $10 maintenance budget. I mean ... did you see the people working on the field when they showed clips of it before the Canada - Honduras game. They looked like they were 10 first of all, and secondly ... I dunno ... it was a mess.

I don't have evidence or research of stadiums with similar climates as Toronto and comparable operating budgets of MLSE for TFC ... but Im sure its a more than workable situation.

[LucaGol]

That's a joke of a statement because I'm pretty sure you know nothing about SJ's young players.

Arturo Alvarez and Ryan Johnson are 2 young players that they have who are looking pretty darn good.

James Riley looks like a keeper as well.

If we're talking about age ... Ronnie O'Brien is still relatively young for MLS standards ... he's what, 28?, 29? ... that's nothing.

Scott Sealy is still an interesting young player (he's yet to convince me, but potential is there)

Ryan Cochrane and Jason Hernandez are both relatively young defenders, who I would take any day of the week on our team in place of Tyrone Marshall and Marco Velez.

San Jose hasn't exactly thrown all their eggs in one basket.

#1 ... They have probably the best coach in MLS, who has won a championship before, is intelligent tactically .. and is calm of temper.

#2 ... Billy Bean, one of the smartest people in all of sports is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

#3 ... They have pretty good fan support. OK they play in a small stadium .... but the atmosphere is really good ... almost BMO like.

[bangersandmash]

Ok, maybe I should rephrase my initial semi uninformed mini-rant ...

... if St. James' Park can have grass ... so can BMO Field.


And it should. And it will. I assume all the other people on this board who pay property tax or vote in municipal elections have written to their counsellor. Actually... some of the money came from the federal govenment... I wonder if Turf at BMO could be an election issue! (yeah, dumb idea, I know).

[Pachuco]

it was unrealistic to expect the playoffs this year...we have one more win then last year so this season is already a success with more games still to go....we have been in more games this year then last... a success right there...We have Carver back as manager...success....were on the right track.

1. WTF? so if we lose the rest of the games left in the season you would call this season a success? Not even the TFC organization would call this a succesfull season if that happened.

2. How the fuck does playing more games then last year define success?

3. Nobody will be calling Carver a success if we finish dead last again (except you I guess)

4. We didn't beat USL teams in the Canada Cup. We are on track to finish dead last again. We still have to make many changes in order for this team to succeed. How are we on the right track?

[Pachuco]

Arturo Alvarez and Ryan Johnson are 2 young players that they have who are looking pretty darn good.

James Riley looks like a keeper as well.

If we're talking about age ... Ronnie O'Brien is still relatively young for MLS standards ... he's what, 28?, 29? ... that's nothing.

Scott Sealy is still an interesting young player (he's yet to convince me, but potential is there)

Ryan Cochrane and Jason Hernandez are both relatively young defenders, who I would take any day of the week on our team in place of Tyrone Marshall and Marco Velez.

San Jose hasn't exactly thrown all their eggs in one basket.

#1 ... They have probably the best coach in MLS, who has won a championship before, is intelligent tactically .. and is calm of temper.

#2 ... Billy Bean, one of the smartest people in all of sports is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

#3 ... They have pretty good fan support. OK they play in a small stadium .... but the atmosphere is really good ... almost BMO like.

Thank you for typing that out. SJ looks to be building the right way if you ask me.

[Marco2K]

we are also great at cup games.

Im fuckin depressed with the reds

[ricciboy]

we would look bad if san jose made it their first year

[BigLou]

Its too bad guys, San Jose keeps beating good teams, they are gonna make the playoffs.

[rocker]

we would look bad if san jose made it their first year

if we would look bad, how would the LA Galaxy or FC Dallas or KC or Chivas or Colorado look -- if San Jose finishes ahead of them?? ;)
At least we were an expansion team last year. Those teams are well-established.

[Flashman]

Again please correct me if i'm wrong. What fucken differenc edoes it make if we play in the east or West. Bottom line is SJ has more points then us.

There are only 14 teams in the league. There is a total of 30 gamesall teams pplay each other 2 times and a few teams 3 tims. The schedule is simailar. You are playing the same teams.

We couldn't beat SJ at home so what does the divison hav eto do with it??

The differences are:

1) The few teams you play 3 times are from your own conference, and since SJ is in the weaker West Conference, they play those 3 games against weaker West teams

2) In the case of the Western Conference this year, you don't need to be one of the 8 teams with the best record in the league to make the playoffs. You just have to be one of the 3 best in the west. Third in the west was a pretty low point total until Chivas gladly took 6 points from us in the last 2 weeks to move up to 30 points, but it is still lower than trying to beat out RBshiteNY and DCU for eigth place overall in the league.

[Oldtimer]

#1 ... They have probably the best coach in MLS, who has won a championship before, is intelligent tactically .. and is calm of temper.

#2 ... Billy Bean, one of the smartest people in all of sports is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

#3 ... They have pretty good fan support. OK they play in a small stadium .... but the atmosphere is really good ... almost BMO like.

I would dispute that they have the best coach in MLS. Yallop didn't exactly set the Canadian National Men's Team on fire when he coached them. Just check the record. He isn't that good.

Steve Nichol (of the Revs) is regarded by many as the best coach in MLS. How he has built a budget team with great chemistry is a model for the rest of MLS.

Your point #3 doesn't explain why they are doing better than us. In fact, it isn't totally true, as they have not sold out all of their matches, even in small quarters.

[Pachuco]

The differences are:

1) The few teams you play 3 times are from your own conference, and since SJ is in the weaker West Conference, they play those 3 games against weaker West teams

2) In the case of the Western Conference this year, you don't need to be one of the 8 teams with the best record in the league to make the playoffs. You just have to be one of the 3 best in the west. Third in the west was a pretty low point total until Chivas gladly took 6 points from us in the last 2 weeks to move up to 30 points, but it is still lower than trying to beat out RBshiteNY and DCU for eigth place overall in the league.


You're whole post would be valid, EXCEPT San Jose has more points from eastern teams then western teams. 15 out of 28 points were taking from the east. And guess what? 6 points from New England and Columbus (away). Explain that?