Toronto---Championship Winning City

[Oblio2]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>

[deschamp86]

Krypton sucks

[werewolf]

The overall message of the thread is true, for the major teams, however, the Argos have won 3 Grey Cups, and the Rock 5 Championships.

[flatpicker]

Toronto is a Black Hole...

nobody truly understands why all the power to suck... but that's just the way it is.

when you drive into Toronto, the sign at the city limits should read:

Toronto - There's Always Next Year

[Beach_Red]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93


Maybe it's you...;)

okay, I moved here in '92, but I grew up in Montreal so I never saw those early 90's Leaf teams as good enough - they "almost" beat LA who got blown out in five games by Montreal.

[LucaGol]

You forgot to mention, U of T football, York Football, and the St.Mikes Majors.

Hey, at least the Marlies were half decent last season.

[LucaGol]

Maybe it's you...;)

okay, I moved here in '92, but I grew up in Montreal so I never saw those early 90's Leaf teams as good enough - they "almost" beat LA who got blown out in five games by Montreal.

The habs can thank Kerry Fraser for that Cup ... because, without a doubt, if it was a Leafs - Habs final ... there'd be no drought ... as we owned the Canadiens that year.

[werewolf]

the Lynx, the Phantoms (Arena Football League), ThunderHawks (Indoor soccer)

[giambac]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this

[Roogsy]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>

Dude...try growing up in this city.

I wake up with this rant going over in my head every day of my life.

[Roogsy]

The habs can thank Kerry Fraser for that Cup ... because, without a doubt, if it was a Leafs - Habs final ... there'd be no drought ... as we owned the Canadiens that year.

QFFT!

[Roogsy]

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this

Ah...so the trick is to deprive the teams of money!

Brilliant. The answer was in front of us the whole time.

[MG42]

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks




Without starting another useless debate, I know that we all see the most common thing here...

Leafs suck.....MLSE
Jays Suck.....hey, at least they've won in the last 20 years
Raptors kinda suck MLSE
Argos suck usually competetive
Rock suck usually competetive
TFC Sucks MLSE

[Shakes McQueen]

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this

The one gaping hole in this theory, is that teams make more money by being successful.

Winning championships gets you a substantial number of merchandise-buying bandwagon jumpers. Getting to the playoffs, gets you additional revenue from playoff games (for which you can also charge premium ticket prices).

Simply selling out your stadium every week isn't an incentive to be a middling team forever.

Toronto just hasn't been fortunate the last several years. The Raptors are looking pretty good this seasons, however, and the Leafs appear to finally be making some good long-term decisions for the future success of the club.

As for Toronto FC - second year franchise. I'm not ready to throw it under the bus.

People always act as though Toronto is some sort of horrible exception - it isn't. There are lots of teams in every league that have NEVER had success.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Also, I think saying the Raptors "kinda suck" is being overly harsh. They made the playoffs.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

Without starting another useless debate, I know that we all see the most common thing here...

Leafs suck.....MLSE
Jays Suck.....hey, at least they've won in the last 20 years
Raptors kinda suck MLSE
Argos suck usually competetive
Rock suck usually competetive
TFC Sucks MLSE

The only problem with your statement (and I have to agree with the coincidences) is that without MLSE, the Raptors would actually suck as opposed to the contending team they have become, including playoff appearances and an Atlantic Division Title. They were pretty bad until MLSE bought them outright. And we wouldn't have TFC without MLSE. The Leafs? The Leafs sucked before MLSE and I am guessing, will continue to do so.

[Roogsy]

People always act as though Toronto is some sort of horrible exception - it isn't. There are lots of teams in every league that have NEVER had success.
- Scott

Unfortunately very true. Seattle is a good example where all they have won in the last 50 years is 1 Sonics NBA Championship.

[Draracle]

Argos don't suck... they aren't much this year, yet. But they have been a contender for several years now.

[MrHawk]

Philadelphia (Phillies, Flyers, Eagles, 76ers)
Seattle
Chicago (Other than the Bulls and the 1 WhiteSox title)
Buffalo

[TFC_Chris]

The one gaping hole in this theory, is that teams make more money by being successful.

Winning championships gets you a substantial number of merchandise-buying bandwagon jumpers. Getting to the playoffs, gets you additional revenue from playoff games (for which you can also charge premium ticket prices).

Exception to the rule: Atlanta Braves

They won 15 straight division titles yet always had problems selling out. Seriously, your team is 8 wins away from a birth in the World Series and that's NOT an incentive to go?

If only we had that problem here...

[Beach_Red]

The habs can thank Kerry Fraser for that Cup ... because, without a doubt, if it was a Leafs - Habs final ... there'd be no drought ... as we owned the Canadiens that year.

A little off topic, I guess, but that's sports. Kerry Fraser's bad call was game six, wasn't it? What happened in game seven? And, one thing about the Habs, they're a different team in the playoffs (at least they were then). Some people would say the only reason the Leafs got as close as they did is because they were in the weaker west division.

But it's true, lots of cities fare a lot worse than Toronto. Atlanta? Vancouver? Even Montreal, there's no hockey dynasty left, there's no baseball team left at all.

[Hooligan69]

Except the Blue Jays are now on a 8 game winning streak. TFC couldn't win 8 games in a row if you shot dead all the opposition.

[MrHawk]

The BlueJays also do this every year. When September comes around, they seem to remember how to play baseball.

[Oblio2]

Except the Blue Jays are now on a 8 game winning streak. TFC couldn't win 8 games in a row if you shot dead all the opposition.

However, winning 8 games ina row when you play 160 odd games is a little different than winning 8 games in a 32 odd game schedule.

[Oldtimer]

Except the Blue Jays are now on a 8 game winning streak. TFC couldn't win 8 games in a row if you shot dead all the opposition.

Football is different from baseball. You don't win 8 in a row unless you're Manchester United.

[Oblio2]

To add insult..Im a Tottenham fan and an England supporter so im doubley fucked! :)

[Roogsy]

Whoa...looks like some of us have even worse luck! LOL!

[Oblio2]

LOL.....

[RPB_Brantford_08]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>


TFC is in year two lighten up....england hasn't won the world cup or anything else since 1966 so that mean they suck? right? a winning football team is not made in 2 years from the get go thats reality.
To has one major problem some of their fans want to be with Championship teams. Glory Hunters is part of the Toronto...since the Jays stop winning their fans has disappeared except for the hardcore 20,000
regulars, Rock have been rebuilding a team that was near perfect, the fans have styed loyal for the most part, Raptors are moving towards being respectable..i long plyoff run this years is my prediction ( no they won't do a Celtics type year) have they have thier main core of support
Argos F**K them, they are not worth dicussing, Now the Leafs as much as i hate them the i used to love, do have a good fan base and they deserve a better product then they get...but are also part of the Leafs problem which i hope doesn't happen with TFC. Leafs fans want million dollar sigings, mega trades, top draft picks, yet when the team does go get these guys and they bomb they blame management...they should stop demanding too much and let the club run things without the pressure of the fans. The Raptors would have been better of Keeping VC ( i'll get clobbered for that) im a fan of VC and the Raptors have not been the same since, all he wanted from the team was to be a contnder, and when they could not deliver he want out,canna blame him. Now for TFC the
so called fans say fire MO, fire Carver, trade this guy sign that guy,
its all the same bullshit, Real football fans know it will another couple of seasons of building before this team is a consistent winner, real fans have the patience...glory hunters exit stage left. Torontos teams will be back on top, although the Jays seemed doomed to 3rd place with the Yanks
and Bo Sox around. how many NHL teams would love the Leafs attendance/season tickets slaes, same with MLS and TFC sales?
you follow your team for a reason not bandwagonjumping........

TFC MLS champions 2011!!! you can take that to the bank!!

[giambac]

The one gaping hole in this theory, is that teams make more money by being successful.

Winning championships gets you a substantial number of merchandise-buying bandwagon jumpers. Getting to the playoffs, gets you additional revenue from playoff games (for which you can also charge premium ticket prices).

Simply selling out your stadium every week isn't an incentive to be a middling team forever.

Toronto just hasn't been fortunate the last several years. The Raptors are looking pretty good this seasons, however, and the Leafs appear to finally be making some good long-term decisions for the future success of the club.

As for Toronto FC - second year franchise. I'm not ready to throw it under the bus.

People always act as though Toronto is some sort of horrible exception - it isn't. There are lots of teams in every league that have NEVER had success.

- Scott


Building a winner will also cost you more money to sign the star players. Seems like MLSE knows win or lose games are sold out and at the prices they dictate. Like I asked, how long has Mo promised us a DP??? I get it we hav eto wait until next year. Isn't that what he said last year?

[giambac]

However, winning 8 games ina row when you play 160 odd games is a little different than winning 8 games in a 32 odd game schedule.

True true true,

howver look at the otrher side of the equation. 1 win in the past 17 matches seems quite unbelievable also.

[Oblio2]

TFC is in year two lighten up....england hasn't won the world cup or anything else since 1966 so that mean they suck? right? a winning football team is not made in 2 years from the get go thats reality.
To has one major problem some of their fans want to be with Championship teams. Glory Hunters is part of the Toronto...since the Jays stop winning their fans has disappeared except for the hardcore 20,000
regulars, Rock have been rebuilding a team that was near perfect, the fans have styed loyal for the most part, Raptors are moving towards being respectable..i long plyoff run this years is my prediction ( no they won't do a Celtics type year) have they have thier main core of support
Argos F**K them, they are not worth dicussing, Now the Leafs as much as i hate them the i used to love, do have a good fan base and they deserve a better product then they get...but are also part of the Leafs problem which i hope doesn't happen with TFC. Leafs fans want million dollar sigings, mega trades, top draft picks, yet when the team does go get these guys and they bomb they blame management...they should stop demanding too much and let the club run things without the pressure of the fans. The Raptors would have been better of Keeping VC ( i'll get clobbered for that) im a fan of VC and the Raptors have not been the same since, all he wanted from the team was to be a contnder, and when they could not deliver he want out,canna blame him. Now for TFC the
so called fans say fire MO, fire Carver, trade this guy sign that guy,
its all the same bullshit, Real football fans know it will another couple of seasons of building before this team is a consistent winner, real fans have the patience...glory hunters exit stage left. Torontos teams will be back on top, although the Jays seemed doomed to 3rd place with the Yanks
and Bo Sox around. how many NHL teams would love the Leafs attendance/season tickets slaes, same with MLS and TFC sales?
you follow your team for a reason not bandwagonjumping........

TFC MLS champions 2011!!! you can take that to the bank!!

Please read my post again, then go to the dictionary and look up "tongue-in-cheek"

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Building a winner will also cost you more money to sign the star players. Seems like MLSE knows win or lose games are sold out and at the prices they dictate. Like I asked, how long has Mo promised us a DP??? I get it we hav eto wait until next year. Isn't that what he said last year?

a DP isn;t 100% going to help...he could break his leg in the first game then what? first build a solid core then add a dp.....5-6 players mostly reserve guys will be gone, after this year and thats too bad after the effort they put in against Chivas, but thats the football game, if your not good enough, you will move on.

[Hooligan69]

Football is different from baseball. You don't win 8 in a row unless you're Manchester United.

:smilielol5::smilielol5:

Fuck Utd. :lol:

[billyfly]

Not sure how many of you have also had to explain to your son how come all of daddy's team suck. There's a kick in the nutz.

[Roogsy]

Or a wife whose argument to get you to stop watching so much sports is "but all your teams lose"...OMG...

[Torcida]

The Jays and Raptors don't suck...

[giambac]

a DP isn;t 100% going to help...he could break his leg in the first game then what? first build a solid core then add a dp.....5-6 players mostly reserve guys will be gone, after this year and thats too bad after the effort they put in against Chivas, but thats the football game, if your not good enough, you will move on.


For all the sold out games we have and for the support we've given the team we deserve a DP. However, MLSE is to busy rolling their money to even consider it.

[billyfly]

On a somewhat related note John Ferguson Jr was at the Jays game today (with his 2 sons) and was being heckled mercilessly. He even had to have security around him.

[Hooligan69]

On a somewhat related note John Ferguson Jr was at the Jays game today (with his 2 sons) and was being heckled mercilessly. He even had to have security around him.

Baseball hooligans... :lol:

[LucaGol]

On a somewhat related note John Ferguson Jr was at the Jays game today (with his 2 sons) and was being heckled mercilessly. He even had to have security around him.

That upsets me.

I mean the poor guy is there with his kids.

[Bluenose13]

Building a winner will also cost you more money to sign the star players. Seems like MLSE knows win or lose games are sold out and at the prices they dictate. Like I asked, how long has Mo promised us a DP??? I get it we hav eto wait until next year. Isn't that what he said last year?
That makes no sense......The Leafs & Raptors both spend to the cap maximum.

TFC will spend the money on a DP when one decides that they will play on our carpet.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

That makes no sense......The Leafs & Raptors both spend to the cap maximum.

TFC will spend the money on a DP when one decides that they will play on our carpet.


Leafs should be under this year with all the baggage they let go...No if Sundin re signs at mega bucks???

[v00d00daddy]

TFC is in year two lighten up....england hasn't won the world cup or anything else since 1966 so that mean they suck? right? a winning football team is not made in 2 years from the get go thats reality.
To has one major problem some of their fans want to be with Championship teams. Glory Hunters is part of the Toronto...since the Jays stop winning their fans has disappeared except for the hardcore 20,000
regulars, Rock have been rebuilding a team that was near perfect, the fans have styed loyal for the most part, Raptors are moving towards being respectable..i long plyoff run this years is my prediction ( no they won't do a Celtics type year) have they have thier main core of support
Argos F**K them, they are not worth dicussing, Now the Leafs as much as i hate them the i used to love, do have a good fan base and they deserve a better product then they get...but are also part of the Leafs problem which i hope doesn't happen with TFC. Leafs fans want million dollar sigings, mega trades, top draft picks, yet when the team does go get these guys and they bomb they blame management...they should stop demanding too much and let the club run things without the pressure of the fans. The Raptors would have been better of Keeping VC ( i'll get clobbered for that) im a fan of VC and the Raptors have not been the same since, all he wanted from the team was to be a contnder, and when they could not deliver he want out,canna blame him. Now for TFC the
so called fans say fire MO, fire Carver, trade this guy sign that guy,
its all the same bullshit, Real football fans know it will another couple of seasons of building before this team is a consistent winner, real fans have the patience...glory hunters exit stage left. Torontos teams will be back on top, although the Jays seemed doomed to 3rd place with the Yanks
and Bo Sox around. how many NHL teams would love the Leafs attendance/season tickets slaes, same with MLS and TFC sales?
you follow your team for a reason not bandwagonjumping........

TFC MLS champions 2011!!! you can take that to the bank!!

Seriously? I don't get you man. You're all over the place.

The highlighted part above is already happening. Sorry to break it to you bud.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say.

[Shakes McQueen]

For all the sold out games we have and for the support we've given the team we deserve a DP. However, MLSE is to busy rolling their money to even consider it.

What a thoroughly rational and well-considered point of view - the evil corporation did it.

MLSE spends right to the league maximum with both of their other franchises. They will bring a DP in, when Mo finds one worth signing, and he has said as much.

As for your claim that Mo promised us a DP this year - did he? Did he categorically guarantee that he would sign a DP this year?

I'm GLAD he hasn't caved to fan pressure, and brought in a less-than-stunning DP on a lousy contract, just because the fans demand it.

What Mo *HAS* said, is that he is operating on a five-year plan for building a Toronto FC dynasty, and he seems to have made the right moves thus far, regardless of the results of this season. We have a ton of cap space and allocation cash, a handful of high draft picks, and we signed a handful of good new players for the future (Ricketts, Jo Smith, Guevara, Barrett, Ibrahim).

One constant of the universe, is that complainers always find something new to complain about.

- Scott

[Hooligan69]

Five year plan? Mo is Stalin...

;)

[Roogsy]

I agree with everything you said Scott except for the unused cap and allocation space this year, not to mention a roster spot. What is he saving that for?

[billyfly]

That upsets me.

I mean the poor guy is there with his kids.

I know, I know but man I hate that guy. If it had been Kerry Fraser there today, I swear I'd have punched him in the teeth.

[Shakes McQueen]

I agree with everything you said Scott except for the unused cap and allocation space this year, not to mention a roster spot. What is he saving that for?

I don't think he was saving it for anything - he seemed to have a lot of feelers out for players, that just didn't materialize into signings (Huckerby and Dickov being two). Who knows how much cap space those two would have taken up alone.

He also managed to swindle a lot of allocation money from teams, for next to nothing... and some players he managed to get for next to nothing (Ibbe, Barrett, Ruiz).

Unless you're making a serious run at the MLS Cup, I'm of the opinion that it's a good thing to keep cap space and allocation money free, for when good opportunities to better your club come by.

And why not, when you're Mo Johnston, and you seem to be able to get good players for next to nothing anyway.

- Scott

[london_tfc_fan]

You forgot to mention, U of T football, York Football, and the St.Mikes Majors.

Hey, at least the Marlies were half decent last season.

what about york soccer!! and jays get a bad rap man if they were national league theyd be 3rd overall!! and raps got a serious shot at wining the east with Jermaine Oneal!

[Maple Leaf Red]

Maybe it's you...;)

okay, I moved here in '92, but I grew up in Montreal so I never saw those early 90's Leaf teams as good enough - they "almost" beat LA who got blown out in five games by Montreal.
What is it with Habs fans and revising history?

The Habs won 3 of the 4 games in overtime and would have gone to LA down 2-0 if not for the idiocy of Marty McSorley. That's miles from a blowout.

The one game the two teams had played that year was a Leafs' rout for most of the game (some late goals put some lipstick on the pig). It would have been a great series.

[Maple Leaf Red]

You know why Toronto's major teams don't win championships? Because it's fucking hard to do. Toronto's not even close in terms of futility to cities like Philadelphia. It's been said a bazillion times but why not add one more: The teams try, they spend to the money, they try to bring in the talent, but it's hard to win a title.

[tfcgk]

You want losing teams in this city...wait till the Bills move to Toronto for good :) .....This might be the only franchise fitting for this city with thier history of post season success.

[Beach_Red]

What is it with Habs fans and revising history?

The Habs won 3 of the 4 games in overtime and would have gone to LA down 2-0 if not for the idiocy of Marty McSorley. That's miles from a blowout.

The one game the two teams had played that year was a Leafs' rout for most of the game (some late goals put some lipstick on the pig). It would have been a great series.

I'm not even a Habs fan. I hated them when they were a dynasty, now I just dislike them and am going to be feeling sorry for them soon (though with Gainy running the show they have a lot of potential).

But part of this Toronto Championship City thing is that, I think, those Leaf teams of the early '90's were over rated and that happens all the time in this city, too much excitement about teams that aren't really good enough and too much upset about teams that aren't really that bad.

The thing I always hated about the Habs was that they strutted - they got into a zone and were sooo confident I wanted to see them get knocked on their ass. You're right, LA took them into overtime a lot in that series, and I think had the more talented team, but the Habs acted like the heavy favourite, never looked worried and after the first game won every time.

Now, of course, if it was my team that was strutting I'd have no problem with it....

[Fort York Redcoat]

"Sucks" sucks. There. I finally said it. "Suck" sucks. And if you don't believe me because it shocks you too much well too bad. Tongue-in-cheek. I'm furious!

Where the sarcasm icon again?

[Dbl_D]

Dude...try growing up in this city.

I wake up with this rant going over in my head every day of my life.

rofl... I haven't lived here long enough to have it imprinted and I have the two world series that fight off the suck but... the is becoming a dissstant faddded memmorrrry... WTF... we need another sports ownership group here... to compete and F'K MLSE... :noidea:

[Leprechaun]

Toronto is a Black Hole...

nobody truly understands why all the power to suck... but that's just the way it is.

when you drive into Toronto, the sign at the city limits should read:

Toronto - There's Always Next Year

LOL so true!

[Parkdale]

The only sport in North America where cash can buy the Championship outright is baseball. Look at Atlanta. Ted turner wants to win, so he buys one. In Hockey, Basketball and American Football, there's a lot more going on that just the cash.

before we continue talking about how MLSE can't do anything right..... Bryan Colangelo

[Beach_Red]

The only sport in North America where cash can buy the Championship outright is baseball. Look at Atlanta. Ted turner wants to win, so he buys one. In Hockey, Basketball and American Football, there's a lot more going on that just the cash.


The problem is, Ted paid for ten World Series, but only won one.

Maybe it's hard to buy a champinship, too.

Of course, when you talk about sprts black holes, Atlanta anks right up there.

[Parkdale]

Of course, when you talk about sprts black holes, Atlanta anks right up there.

I think the Falcons are 250-1 shots at winning the superbowl this year (the lowest rank Vegas is giving)

[Beach_Red]

I think the Falcons are 250-1 shots at winning the superbowl this year (the lowest rank Vegas is giving)

And the Thrashers are 100-1, also the lowest odds. The Hawks seem to be about 50-1, same as the Raptors.

Maybe there's some good college teams near Atlanta, I don't know.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this


are you renewing???

[nimamalek]

The Jays have a pretty good team, unfortunately they are also in the toughest division in the league.

[Fishnicker]

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this

Geez giambac, you use 'support' like it's a perjorative.

So what's the opposite of supporting whether they win or lose? Supporting only when they win? That's called 'bandwagon jumping'.

I don't think you could argue that fans honour or respect fairweather support more than unconditional support - the vast majority think otherwise. In fact the qualities most respected in players - hard work, dedication, skill, perseverence - are the very ones we as fans should try to emulate.

Just curious, what did you think of the ballard years? Not a pension plan or MLSE in sight - were the leafs awesome then?

[LucaGol]

I think living in Toronto, especially in the last 10 years, has made Toronto sports fans extremely jaded and bitter.

Me included.

[Sonny Cheeba]

Philadelphia (Phillies, Flyers, Eagles, 76ers)
Seattle
Chicago (Other than the Bulls and the 1 WhiteSox title)
Buffalo


but these are cities that have at least gone somewhere right? i mean. Eagles and Seahawks were both in the superbowl recently. did the sabres not play well some time over the past 10 years? as for chicago.... Cubs and Sox are both decent teams this year.


things will look up for toronto. we won't be a black hole forever.

[Zeke_Jones]

If we want teams in Toronto to win we have to use the "Tonya Harding Strategy" and kneecap all the best players on the other teams right before the games.

The owners are too greedy to spend their money on upgrading a business(team) that doesn't need the upgrade to reach maximum profit.

What Toronto needs is a rich foreigner to buy out MLSE and takeover the Leafs, Raptors and TFC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Geez giambac, you use 'support' like it's a perjorative.

So what's the opposite of supporting whether they win or lose? Supporting only when they win? That's called 'bandwagon jumping'.

I don't think you could argue that fans honour or respect fairweather support more than unconditional support - the vast majority think otherwise. In fact the qualities most respected in players - hard work, dedication, skill, perseverence - are the very ones we as fans should try to emulate.

Just curious, what did you think of the ballard years? Not a pension plan or MLSE in sight - were the leafs awesome then?

You're talking about people who think staying home and watching on tv is protesting. The complaint I have is that we're deemed passionate fans in the city if we keep buying but we don't do anything regardless of the product. Now I'm not saying it's time for this but look at what happens in other places like Newcastle where they go to the grounds and protest outside on gameday. Or in other leagues they stand with their backs to the play.

But again I'd like to stress I'm not so impatient that I think it's time for this. I just raise the points to counter those that believe they do more for the team by not going to a sold out stadium and bitching here about the quality.

[Shakes McQueen]

If we want teams in Toronto to win we have to use the "Tonya Harding Strategy" and kneecap all the best players on the other teams right before the games.

The owners are too greedy to spend their money on upgrading a business(team) that doesn't need the upgrade to reach maximum profit.

What Toronto needs is a rich foreigner to buy out MLSE and takeover the Leafs, Raptors and TFC.

It has nothing to do with spending money. MLSE sports franchises all pretty much spend right to the salary cap limit.

I'm confused as to what money you think they should be spending on TFC already, since the team isn't even two seasons old - and yet they are already talking about putting in grass, expanding BMO in a couple of years, etc. etc. etc.

MLSE is an easy scapegoat for the problems of Toronto franchises - truth is, our teams are just going through the cycle all teams go through.

The Jays were winning championships 15 years ago, the Leafs were competing in Conference finals 10 years ago, and the Raptors made the playoffs last season, and look even stronger for this season.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

But we should win everything! We're the centre of the GD universe!:D

[Shakes McQueen]

It's very rare to find teams in salary capped leagues that avoid the "cycle". The Detroit Red Wings are one club that seem to buck the trend... maybe the Los Angeles Lakers?

The Red Sox and Yankees are pretty good almost every year, but of course, their owners spend exponentially more than the majority of baseball teams.

Cheering for the Yankees is like cheering for Manchester United. :D

- Scott

[invictusTFC]

Building a winner will also cost you more money to sign the star players. Seems like MLSE knows win or lose games are sold out and at the prices they dictate. Like I asked, how long has Mo promised us a DP??? I get it we hav eto wait until next year. Isn't that what he said last year?

At this point, I think it is kind of hard to draw comparisons between the leafs and TFC. The leafs are sold out time and time again due to corporate suits. The ACC is just a place to do business and increase sales. The real fans have to sit at home and watch Hockey Night in Canada to get a glimpse of their team. TFC has a completely blue collar fan base which MLSE risks losing if they do not get tangible results in the next couple of years. I'm dissapointed at the results this season. However, it is a second year franchise. There's not many 2nd year franchises that have contended for titles or even playoff runs in any major league sports that I can think of. I'll admit I have gotten frustrated from time to time with the performance of this team but you can't suggest that they haven't made moves to try to improve this team for the better. When all is said and done, our best players have not played up to their potential consistently. At the end of the season management and coaching staff have to assess wether we should keep these players or not. One thing that this franchise has proven over the past couple of seasons is that they're not afraid to tinker with the roster and make changes.

[ricciboy]

Dude...try growing up in this city.

I wake up with this rant going over in my head every day of my life.


i still cheer them all on

[Oldtimer]

Blue Jay's record:
1977 last place
1978 last place
1979 last place
1980 last place
1981 last place
1982 6th out of 7 teams

You would have never have expected a World Series winning team from these results.

My question: will TFC fans stick around if it takes years to get out of the basement?

[TFC07]

Blue Jay's record:
1977 last place
1978 last place
1979 last place
1980 last place
1981 last place
1982 6th out of 7 teams

You would have never have expected a World Series winning team from these results.

My question: will TFC fans stick around if it takes years to get out of the basement?

It shouldn't take years get out of the basement for TFC to begin with. MLS isn't a stronger and big league like MLB.

[Roogsy]

It shouldn't take years get our of the basement for TFC to begin with. MLS isn't a stronger and big league like MLB.

That's not the question though is it?

Regardless if they shouldn't be there...if they are, will you be around? That's the question.

[TFC07]

That's not the question though is it?

Regardless if they shouldn't be there...if they are, will you be around? That's the question.

I will still support TFC no doubt, but others wouldn't IMO.

[Roogsy]

And I agree. Let's hope this is just a rhetorical situation and never comes to pass.

[Hooligan69]

Blue Jay's record:
1977 last place
1978 last place
1979 last place
1980 last place
1981 last place
1982 6th out of 7 teams

You would have never have expected a World Series winning team from these results.

My question: will TFC fans stick around if it takes years to get out of the basement?

I remember being there at Exhibition Stadium in 1985 when the Blue Jays won the Pennant for the very first time. What an incredible moment.

[Shakes McQueen]

And I agree. Let's hope this is just a rhetorical situation and never comes to pass.

I think Toronto FC needs to win a championship within the next few years, if they want to solidify a large "base" of fans.

Folks like us will probably always be around, but in order to be taken seriously by more casual followers of MLS (who may be hardcore followers of the European leagues), I think they need to start winning sooner than later.

I have friends who think I'm crazy for following MLS football, because the quality of play is generally so low, compared to EPL, Serie A, etc.

- Scott

[stretchthetruth]

I have friends who think I'm crazy for following MLS football, because the quality of play is generally so low, compared to EPL, Serie A, etc.

- Scott


I know people who say shit like that too... I guess they just dont get the thrill of live football - you can see the play develop while looking at the entire field, not limited like TV. I chalk it up to jealousy, coupled with stubbornness in refusing to admit I was right, and they should have gotten season tickets with me but now they dont have them, so they can be bitter A-holes... :hump:

[billyfly]

Well, TFC are out of the playoffs now as well.

This is how it feels to live in this City
This is how it feels to be small
This is how it feels and you don't win nothing at all

Damn I hate this place......

[Rampage]

I wouldn't say the Jays suck. They have a decent winning %.

Look at the bright side: you're not from Philly or Cleveland.

[CoachGT]

This past weekend was the weekend from hell for Toronto sports fans.

TFC - virtually eliminated from playoffs
Blue Jays - mathematically eliminated from playoffs
Argos - embarassing performance - should be eliminated from playoffs
Leafs - pre-season opener - probably eliminated from playoffs ;)

[Sonny Cheeba]

I remember being there at Exhibition Stadium in 1985 when the Blue Jays won the Pennant for the very first time. What an incredible moment.

you mean the AL east. they lost to Kansas City in the ALCS

[Don Julio]

This past weekend was the weekend from hell for Toronto sports fans.

TFC - virtually eliminated from playoffs
Blue Jays - mathematically eliminated from playoffs
Argos - embarassing performance - should be eliminated from playoffs
Leafs - pre-season opener - probably eliminated from playoffs ;)

And only a couple weeks after the week from hell for Canadian/Toronto soccer fans. Jesus.

[Oldtimer]

This past weekend was the weekend from hell for Toronto sports fans.



however, Toronto's "other" team, the Buffalo Bills are having an excellent start to their season! :)

[Blazer]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>

Correction, Raps suck!

[billyfly]

Same old, same old...

[dow117]

TFC is going in the right direction after 3 years... its the journey not the destination that makes it contagious. We will get there but enough already with all the MLSE conspiracy theorists about not caring if they have winners or not .. that's just BS. You are following the corporate belief that unless you win championships , you suck. that would be true if the passion disappears. Believe...

[Cashcleaner]

Ya know guys, the Toronto Nationals did win the MLL Championship this year.

Just saying...

[Brooker]

personally... im very proud of what Toronto sports teams have accomplished so far.

a drought for 20 or so years is not going to get me too depressed.

our time will come again.

[Sally Mack]

The problem is ownership, who have no REAL passion for winning. Winning is secondary. No matter what they say, or how they spin it. They want to win to make more money, not because they want to win.

MLSE owns the raptors, Leafs, and TFC. All losers.

Rogers owns the Blue Jays, and uses them as a marketing tool at best.

When Labatt owned the Jays, of course they won the World Series back to back. They had the league's largest payroll. Bigger than the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, EVERYONE. Labatt obviously wanted to WIN.

That being said, money doesn't win you championships. Over the years, the Leafs splashed money around like it was nobody's business. Before the salary cap they had one of the league's largest payrolls. They just spent it stupid on guys like Jonas Hoglund, Shane Corson, and Darcy Tucker. Hopefully now with an EXPERIENCED GM in charge, the Leafs can build a winning team.

Same goes for the Jays in the stupid spending department. They splashed what limited money they had on Alex Rios, Frank Thomas, BJ Ryan, who were all busts. Looks like the Wells deal is going to be a bust too, based on how he played this year.

IMO, of the major Toronto teams, the Raptors have the best management when it comes to building teams. Losing to the 76ers in the Conference finals still burns me to this day.

If Mo can land a decent coach who can give TFC some consistency, maybe i'd put TFC up there with the raptors.

For now the Leafs are slightly higher up on the Totem pole than the Jays, because well, the Jays have sucked for 15 seasons running now. The Leafs have had a few ups and downs, and seem to have SOME direction now (despite starting 0-2).

[koryo]

Oblio, the Leafs during the 80s were lucky to win 25 games a season. The Jays, though not horrendous from 83-91, managed to win one division championship and bottled it every other year. The Argos weren't a winner either (mediocre).

You just happened to move here at the end of a unique phenomenon.

As for TFC: year three is all I can say. I honestly believe we are two years (more to the point, two players) away from being a hell of a good team.

[mdc 77]

Football is different from baseball. You don't win 8 in a row unless you're Manchester United.

I think you meant unless you're Chelsea. No need to thank me for the correction. :D

[Kaz]

you know I will say this. the product isn't always perfect, but the enjoyment of the game is complete. Toronto Fans have adopted sports teams in some seriously amazing ways.

Just look at TFC this past August I took a friend to a TFC game she the next day we walked by people in TFC track suits, warm jackets, jersey's, hats. and t-shirts. This is a City that has adopted the Club and the sport not as a minor league or fringe league, but as a Major League Club equal to any other of the major sports teams in the City.

I think the fans are tired of losing no doubt, (particularly with the Leafs) but that is often because of a preception of the city that just isn't true, for some reason the best don't want to come to Toronto.

In the case of TFC it's just a matter of getting the right staff, the players have the talent and skill, it's just a matter of using it well.

[TFC_Junky]

Or a wife whose argument to get you to stop watching so much sports is "but all your teams lose"...OMG...

Good lord, does that arguement ever end?!?! :facepalm: Seriously, I've been getting that for years! LOL

[billyfly]

Toronto Raptors pls reverse this spiral. Please start tonight.

[jloome]

In the case of TFC it's just a matter of getting the right staff, the players have the talent and skill, it's just a matter of using it well.

Having the right "talent and skill" is part-and-parcel of "using it well." Pretty bloody useless having football skills if you're crap on the pitch, eh?

What games have you been watching, Kaz? Do you honestly think those shambolic performances were something akin to electric football, with Cris Cummins plugging in all the wrong plays?

Half our team is crap, because technique means nothing without on-field intelligence, focus and commitment. YOu don't get that just by hiring the right coach. Yes, a motivator can get more out of a team. But it's not going to fix this mess.

[trane]

^ I understand what you are saying, but that is why I would like a coach who is a good teacher to come in, I just do not see many MLS rosters wich are full of players with footy IQ, therefore, I would like someone that will teach them and insist that they apply it on the pitch. I think that none of our coaches have been able to do it. Certainly at some point you may have to give up, like Wynne, and one has to wonder how a veteran like Serioux and Garcia got burned as they did at times. But for the most part I still hope that they can be tought.

[JonO]

^^ Agreed with trane - with MLS roster restrictions/salary cap/lack of prestige, you are going to have more raw talent with lower football IQ because a lot of them got into the game relatively late. A good coach can make a world of difference with these type of players...

[trane]

^ Next time you roll around my office, that has earned you some sushi, at the Prince.

[Hitcho]

also, a good system implemented by a good coach goes a long way to overcoming any lack of footballing intelligence by the players individually, since they are all pulling in one direction and not each trying to be George Best.

[JonO]

^ Next time you roll around my office, that has earned you some sushi, at the Prince.
If I knew it would be that easy, I'd agree with you more often :D

I don't mind selling my sould for food....

[trane]

^ hey, food is good. Well good food is good.

[trane]

also, a good system implemented by a good coach goes a long way to overcoming any lack of footballing intelligence by the players individually, since they are all pulling in one direction and not each trying to be George Best.


That is part of it. For example, you put Barrett, on wing, and just tell him run up and down like hell, win the ball, run up the wing, cut in if you have space, push and pass the ball. DO NOT SHOOT, unless there is no option CROSS ONLY AS A LAST RESORT. He does anything other then that he gets benched.

[billyfly]

So. Here we are on Feb 7th 2010 and we have a 4-1 Toronto Rock, a surging Raps at 28-23, a reinvigorated Maple Leafs (look out next year), a promising Jays team and new look TFC.

Maybe there is light at the end of this tunnel and the city will emerge from the dark times that we've all had to see.

[Whoop]

Toronto still has a long way to go...

Cautiously optimistic on most fronts...

[billyfly]

The bars in this town need playoff money pretty bad.

[TFCUNITED]

The teams in Toronto have been struggling the last few years but I see 2010 as the turning point for something better.

[ensco]

The problem is that pro sports players don't want to live in Toronto. This is outer Mongolia as far as most baseball, soccer and basketball players are concerned (the only glimmer of hope is that European basketball players may be an exception, but can you have an all-Euro team?).

Hockey should be different, but the best hockey players won't come because the money is the same elsewhere, without the fishbowl experience.

[Pachuco]

The problem is that pro sports players don't want to live in Toronto. This is outer Mongolia as far as most baseball, soccer and basketball players are concerned (the only glimmer of hope is that European basketball players may be an exception, but can you have an all-Euro team?).

Hockey should be different, but the best hockey players won't come because the money is the same elsewhere, without the fishbowl experience.

If you were right, we would never have bought two baseball championships in 92 and 93. We bought the most expensive players and we ditched out money to do it. It proves that money talks man, I don't believe for a second that this is "The" problem. The problem has alot more to do with the owners of this team if you ask me. Build a winning team and you'll see that the good players will be attracted. You don't think you could find enough players to be part of a winning Maple Leaf's team in the NHL?

[Beach_Red]

If you were right, we would never have bought two baseball championships in 92 and 93. We bought the most expensive players and we ditched out money to do it. It proves that money talks man, I don't believe for a second that this is "The" problem. The problem has alot more to do with the owners of this team if you ask me. Build a winning team and you'll see that the good players will be attracted. You don't think you could find enough players to be part of a winning Maple Leaf's team in the NHL?


You're right. How else can you explain hockey players choosing Detroit over Toronto?

[billyfly]

So after a horrible weekend I thought to myself - Does Toronto's current Sports Team status hurt your civic pride?

[boban]

So after a horrible weekend I thought to myself - Does Toronto's current Sports Team status hurt your civic pride?
Yes!!!!!

[billyfly]

^Mine too.

[flatpicker]

I definitely feel like my pride has been punched right in the civic

[Waggy]

It's getting harder and harder to remind myself that yes, the Leafs have been to conference finals 4 times in the past 20 years. Yes, the Jays have won 4 pennants and 2 world series in the past 25 years. Yes, the Raptors once did win a playoff series. Yes, the Argos had arguably the best CFL teams ever (at worst 2nd to Moons Eskimos) in the late 90s and won a Cup in 03. Does it hurt? Only in the mornings. Or in moments of sobriety. Or those days like yesterday when the Raptors blow a 20 point lead with 15 minutes left AND the Leafs blow a one goal lead with 2 minutes left. Fuck. I need a drink.

[Beach_Red]

So after a horrible weekend I thought to myself - Does Toronto's current Sports Team status hurt your civic pride?

Yes, it does. And you know what, it's the whole "entertainment" industry in Toronto, not just sports, and that hurts, too. We can't make hit TV shows or movies, either.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I moved to Toronto from "over the pond" in September '93
The Jays had won the World Series the year before, they then won the World Series that fall.....I was on Yonge Street, truly amazing.

The Leafs had made the conference final the season prior, losing to LA. The 93-94 season, they went 10 games (unbeaten or wins, can't remember) to start the season, losing to (If I remember rightly) the Canucks in the conference finals.

I thought, as a new resident to Toronto...that this was fucking awesome. Teams win here, poeple love winners...Fuck Yeah, Toronto rules.

Well, fuck that.

Leafs suck.....
Jays Suck.....
Raptors kinda suck
Argos suck
Rock suck
TFC Sucks


FOR FUCK' S SAKE.....What the fuck is going on? This is a big City, with good money, solid backing for teams and yet...we suck some serious pipe in the "Winning Dept"

<rant over>


HAHA..Everything has went down hill for this city since you have arrived....:rolleyes:

Leaving anytime soon?





;)

[Belfast_Boy]

it's Simple Simon.... (god i amuse myself)!

it's you! we were fine until you moved here! if you really like this place you must leave. just hop on out of town. please move to Montreal.

not sure about the Jays, Rock, Argos or the Raptors. don't really give a flying what they do. sure it would be nice if they won. but I'd be hard pressed to name a couple of player on any of those teams.

but the other two are my teams at their respective sports. the fact that they have a common owner that doesn't seem to give a shit isn't good.

I support my Leafs and like every year there's always next year. GO LEAVES GO!

TFC has to get better...... right????? someone please say yes!

[Belfast_Boy]

To add insult..Im a Tottenham fan and an England supporter so im doubley fucked! :)


i have that beat! Ireland, Liverpool, Leafs, TFC! at least Spurs is on their way up!

[billyfly]

And the hits just keep on coming!

[james]

Some would say that part of the blame lies with the fans/supporters.

You see we tend to support our teams whether they win or lose. The Leafs are the classis example. All games are sold out at ridiculous prices. Their is no motivation for owners (MLSE)to build a winner. revenue is capped for them.

Looks like tFC maybe falling into the same pattern. All games are sold out even though we have been dead last the past 2 seasons and even though the productr has been bad. There is a waiting list of 8,ooo to get season tickets. Once again there is no motivation for the owners (MLSE) to build a winner. How long has Mo been promising us a DP???

Next year season will also be sold out. even with ticket price increase. MLSE knows this

that so called waitting list of 8,000 people is bullshitand the saying every game is sold out. There was thousands of seats empty at quite a few games this year. My buddy was on that waitting list as well, he was saposidly around 4,000th on that list yet he got a call for season ticekts a year ago....but he only wanted seats in the South End as other seats were to Exspensive so he didnt buy. If they had a list of 8,000 they most likely went through that order by now and when it came time for these people to actually buy the tickets they changed there mind because they didnt have the money or lost interrest in the team.

[james]

i have that beat! Ireland, Liverpool, Leafs, TFC! at least Spurs is on their way up!

pfft, Liverpool have won a few Champion Leagues in recent years they got nothing to complain about.

[james]

To add insult..Im a Tottenham fan and an England supporter so im doubley fucked! :)

Tottenham fans may be wankers but there team still is quite good. Considerring they hold between 4th-8th place for many years now many Leaf fans would dream to finnish 4th out of the 30 NHL teams......while Tottenham finnish 4th out of what 92 teams. Tottenham they got it easy.

[Derko]

Watch out, Blackpool are on the move, lol

[billyfly]

You can't tell me this city isn't cursed, especially against Mtl.

Habs over Leafs
Aloulettes over Argos
Bulldogs/Marlies 1 and 1 but Hamilton get the extra point as the Toronto win was in S/O

[billyfly]

It seriously has me on the verge of tears how this City can't seem to win. The cold, cold winter that is Toronto's teams rips at my soul.

[billyfly]

Sports gods just threw us a bone. Raps win.

[billyfly]

F*ck Eveything That Is Montreal.

except this:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/misa_campo_003.jpg

[jabbronies]

yummy...


F*ck Eveything That Is Montreal.

except this:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/misa_campo_003.jpg

[billyfly]

Not sure if it is "except this" or "definitely this".

[billyfly]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/col.../17973446.html (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/steve_simmons/2011/04/12/17973446.html)

Futility City

[tfcleeds]

Could very well be that the new Lingerie Football League team could be the next to win a championship.

[ryan]

F*ck Eveything That Is Montreal.

except this:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/misa_campo_003.jpg

Eh?

I'd still f*ck that. :hump:

[billyfly]

Ugh

sigh

grrr

[Richard]

F*ck Eveything That Is Montreal.

except this:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/misa_campo_003.jpg
This is the one positive thing to take away from today