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View Full Version : Newest MLS team ... Barcelona USA???



canadian_bhoy
09-06-2008, 09:00 AM
Looking to create a Chivas style sister club in MLS out of Miami
http://www.goal.com/en-us/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=849969

"FC Barcelona has had preliminary talks with the MLS about expanding their empire to the United States with the creation of a sister team in Miami, Florida."


Really interested to see league support if this were to happen. Would bring a HUGE ammount of exposure to the league - I wonder what would happen to lifelong Barca supporters if they had an MLS club - how would that effect their support for their "home" side.

ilikemusic
09-06-2008, 09:14 AM
You could put the real Barcelona in Miami and it is still going to struggle drawing crowds. MLS in Florida is a bad idea.

ensco
09-06-2008, 09:22 AM
You could put the real Barcelona in Miami and it is still going to struggle drawing crowds. MLS in Florida is a bad idea.

Why does this falsehood get repeated over and over again on these boards?

The Fusion failed because they played in a high school stadium 30 miles north of Miami. They had horrible ownership, a Steinbrenner-type with no money who abused the season ticket holders. The league "temporarily" contracted out of Miami and Tampa at a point in MLS' existence (2001) when the survival of MLS itself was a real question mark. At the time, South Florida was promised that MLS would return.

South Florida has over 6 million people and the level of soccer interest is enormous. You drive around, you don't see baseball fields, just miles and miles of soccer fields. Miami Herald and El Diario give the Latin American leagues major coverage. Even Miami FC, who are not a competitive side, get decent coverage.

Miami is not just Cuban. There are large communities of wealthy expatriate Hondurans, Guatemalans, Panamanians, Venezuelans, Colombians, Peruvians, Argentines.....as well as lots of Europeans.

With a centrally located SSS (that's the hold up), Miami would be the single best market in MLS, bar none, including Toronto.

Ask Tyrone Marshall his opinion (I have) - he played for the Fusion. MLS today would be huge down there.

This is the single biggest priority market for MLS, whether we want to hear it or not.

Just search "Miami MLS" on bigsoccer or google, you might learn something....

ilikemusic
09-06-2008, 09:25 AM
Baseball is pretty big in the Caribbean and it doesnt seem to help the Marlins one bit. Professional sports in general dont draw well in Florida.

GeorgeB
09-06-2008, 09:27 AM
pro sports dont work to well in florida.too many beaches and bitches.who would want to go watch sports ?

LucaGol
09-06-2008, 09:30 AM
Im starting to wish TFC was not in this league.

Especially since its being run by absolute idiots.

nascarguy
09-06-2008, 09:35 AM
There have been lots of rumors recently about a team starting in Miami. The most recent one involved David Beckham and Simon Fuller becoming owners after Beckham's contract with the LA Galaxy is up in 2011.

ensco
09-06-2008, 09:38 AM
Baseball is pretty big in the Caribbean and it doesnt seem to help the Marlins one bit. Professional sports in general dont draw well in Florida.

This is completely wrong.

The Heat and the Dolphins sell out.

The Panthers are a mess - they did OK in the downtown arena, but now they play at Sunrise, an hour from downtown, in an arena even more remote than that the Fusion were at (plus hockey in Miami is a mistake).

The Marlins are a special case. The team draws when they play well, they draw flies when they don't. They have had major ownership turmoil, and (like the Expos did) have alienated the community by constantly getting rid of young stars, and threatening to move if they don't get a better stadium deal.

Plus the University of Miami football and baseball teams draw very well.

deltox
09-06-2008, 09:47 AM
i just read that the marlins played a few days ago and there were 600 people in the stands

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280903128


they sold 11,000 tickets and only 600 turned up.

Cashcleaner
09-06-2008, 09:54 AM
I don't see Florida getting an MLS team, though I admit the market isn't as dire as some think.

What I am unhappy with the is the whole "Barcelona USA" name. When is the league gonna learn that naming a club after a well-established European team isn't paying homage. Instead, it's simply riding the coatails of a more historic organisation.

Just another thing we do that makes us look bushleague.

king10
09-06-2008, 09:57 AM
This is completely wrong.

The Heat and the Dolphins sell out.

The Panthers are a mess - they did OK in the downtown arena, but now they play at Sunrise, an hour from downtown, in an arena even more remote than that the Fusion were at (plus hockey in Miami is a mistake).

The Marlins are a special case. The team draws when they play well, they draw flies when they don't. They have had major ownership turmoil, and (like the Expos did) have alienated the community by constantly getting rid of young stars, and threatening to move if they don't get a better stadium deal.

Plus the University of Miami football and baseball teams draw very well.

the heat have terrible attendance.. even the year of their championship they never sold out all the time.. the dolphins have the best attendance although their 1-15 year resulted in terrible attendance last year.. the florida panthers do not draw well.. the tampa bay lightning draw decent... overall sports in florida is a tough sell.. the rays are 1st in the al east and only draw 21 000 a game

ensco
09-06-2008, 10:10 AM
i just read that the marlins played a few days ago and there were 600 people in the stands

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280903128


they sold 11,000 tickets and only 600 turned up.

Wow that is pretty amazing. That franchise is in deep trouble.

ensco
09-06-2008, 10:15 AM
the heat have terrible attendance.. even the year of their championship they never sold out all the time..

what on earth are you talking about? they sold out 3 seasons in a row prior to last year

here's the data for every year but last year (this is what I found in 30 seconds of looking, as opposed to making stuff up). I know their attendance slid a touch last year but they were the worst team in the league, and traded one of their two marquee players, Shaq:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=mia&lg=n

I think the right conclusion on the Heat is that they sellout every game when they're a contender, and they do fine when they're not.

The biggest issue down there is that South Florida is now in a deep recession because of the real estate problems down there, and ity's not a good time to start any business in that region.

TicTacTabarnack
09-06-2008, 10:19 AM
What I am unhappy with the is the whole "Barcelona USA" name. When is the league gonna learn that naming a club after a well-established European team isn't paying homage. Instead, it's simply riding the coatails of a more historic organisation.

Just another thing we do that makes us look bushleague.

This is a completely different situation than Salt Lake using the "Real" name thinking it's cool and that it might give it some undeserved credibility ...

This is FC Barcelona looking to expand into MLS! It would only make sense to keep it's brand intact and naming it's expansion FC Barcelona USA. All of it's other sports teams keep the name.

Redcoe15
09-06-2008, 10:32 AM
And where exactly is a soccer specific stadium, for where they're going to play in, going to come from? The mayor of Miami wanted to cover half the cost of an SSS to be played on the old Orange Bowl site next to a new ballpark for the Marlins to play in, and a prospective owner would to come forward to cover the other half. That was late last year and there was a six month window of opprotunity to allow it to happen. That has since past and no one has stepted forward. From what I've read, that offer has been taken off the table. So much for Miami as a desirable MLS market.

Just search "Miami MLS" on bigsoccer or google, you might learn something....
I have learned something about that. Miami MLS dreamers, as well as NY2 dreamers, are the biggest bunch of whiny sociopaths in North American sports fandom.

Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis and Portland are well ahead of Miami in terms of criteria for expansion. They deserve to be in the league. Miami should stay at the back of the line for a long while.

Detroit_TFC
09-06-2008, 10:40 AM
The problem with the little brother teams has been that they've been a fraud. They were set up with the assumption that the mother clubs would put significant resources, marketing, etc, including player exchanges, into the MLS teams. Chivas did that initially, without much impact. Real has constantly weaseled out of their commitments to do a friendly with RSL. And who can blame them, they've got a ton of other things more important to focus on. But now Barca come calling, why does the league think they will be any different. Better for the FOs to build relationships with top European/South American teams to share expertise, etc. Having said that, it hasn't seemed to help Rapids any though, I wonder if Arsenal even takes their calls any more.

Roogsy
09-06-2008, 10:43 AM
I don't see Florida getting an MLS team, though I admit the market isn't as dire as some think.

What I am unhappy with the is the whole "Barcelona USA" name. When is the league gonna learn that naming a club after a well-established European team isn't paying homage. Instead, it's simply riding the coatails of a more historic organisation.

Just another thing we do that makes us look bushleague.

OMG this is SO true. And just like Chivas USA, all it does is limit your ability to create loyalty with fans. What Madrid fan in South Florida will want to cheer for a Barcelona-owned team in the US? With Florida's already well-known difficulties with attendance in general (the Dolphins are an exception, they play in the Winter when there is nothing else to do in South Florida) this is only a recipe for disaster.

It's a bonehead move.

Cashcleaner
09-06-2008, 11:01 AM
This is a completely different situation than Salt Lake using the "Real" name thinking it's cool and that it might give it some undeserved credibility ...

This is FC Barcelona looking to expand into MLS! It would only make sense to keep it's brand intact and naming it's expansion FC Barcelona USA. All of it's other sports teams keep the name.

But by keeping the name intact (FC Barcelona) you've effectively alienated all the existing soccer fans who follow other Spanish teams and others who would demand a unique identity.

Almost any Real Salt Lake fan who followed the team from day 1 would tell you how little respect they first had for the team name, and even to this day many are still unhappy about it. And look at the number of New York fans who won't be caught dead uttering the words "Red Bull"?

It's been proven to be unpopular with the fans so why go through that again with the Miami team?

Beach_Red
09-06-2008, 11:06 AM
Baseball is pretty big in the Caribbean and it doesnt seem to help the Marlins one bit. Professional sports in general dont draw well in Florida.

Is baseball still as popular in the Carribean as it was?

I'm new to soccer but I have the feeling that it is quite different from other pro sports in North America. Maybe it's more like college sports support, and there's plenty of that in Florida.

People are looking for a way to tap into the huge market that America still is. I hope they keep trying with soccer till they get it right.

Roogsy
09-06-2008, 11:13 AM
Is baseball still as popular in the Carribean as it was?

No...

edmundo
09-06-2008, 12:02 PM
i wonder where they will place mufc usa and liverpool usa????

Kickit09
09-06-2008, 12:10 PM
first chivas USA, now Barcelona USA. i see a bad trend here. how does this league expect to be taken seriously when teams are beeing named after other famous cities/teams, even if they are sister teams. this league is being turned into a side show.

LucaGol
09-06-2008, 12:15 PM
first chivas USA, now BarcelonaUSA. i see a bad trend here. how does this league expect to be taken seriously when teams are beeing named after other famous cities/teams, even if they are sister teams. this league is being turned into a side show.

Its not turning into a side show....it IS a side show (under the current administration).

If it wasn't for the success of TFC...there'd be no other cities that would even consider, not even for a milli-second, about paying the expansion fee to join this pseudo-soccer league.

ensco
09-06-2008, 01:02 PM
And where exactly is a soccer specific stadium, for where they're going to play in, going to come from? The mayor of Miami wanted to cover half the cost of an SSS to be played on the old Orange Bowl site next to a new ballpark for the Marlins to play in, and a prospective owner would to come forward to cover the other half. That was late last year and there was a six month window of opprotunity to allow it to happen. That has since past and no one has stepted forward. From what I've read, that offer has been taken off the table. So much for Miami as a desirable MLS market.

I have learned something about that. Miami MLS dreamers, as well as NY2 dreamers, are the biggest bunch of whiny sociopaths in North American sports fandom.

Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis and Portland are well ahead of Miami in terms of criteria for expansion. They deserve to be in the league. Miami should stay at the back of the line for a long while.


Re Miami MLS supporters as whiny sociopaths, links please. And not just one offs.....a non-TFC supporter could come on these boards and easily come to the same conclusion about us....now back to your main point:

3 of the 4 cities (all ex Montreal) you mention have SSS negotiations that are in exactly the same bogged-down place as Miami's, so I don't know why they'd be "well ahead" of anybody. Also, same point re the ownership setup, for 3 of the 4 it's unimpressive

Montreal is different I think - SSS and Saputo/Gillett in place - I do think Montreal is next, and ahead of everybody else. I hate to say it, but Vancouver is probably dreaming - at 1.5 million people, it's just too small to matter.

One of the biggest criteria is size of MSA, as this correlates to TV potential - this is where Miami (and Atlanta, and maybe Detroit) have big advantages over the other cities you mention. All these other smaller cities that want in....not happening in a max 20 team league. I also think it's why Columbus is destined to move, to a larger city.

Re the specifics of the Orange Bowl deal, Miami's SSS problems are really an ownership problem, which is what this "Barcelona USA" idea is trying to address. Also there is quite an interesting idea to share the new FIU football stadium, whose location is not bad (a lot better than where the Fusion played in Broward, anyway). But it wouldn't be an SSS.....

ensco
09-06-2008, 01:12 PM
If it wasn't for the success of TFC...there'd be no other cities that would even consider, not even for a milli-second, about paying the expansion fee to join this pseudo-soccer league.

Umm, Seattle and Philadelphia wouldn't have considered joining MLS without the success of TFC?

Just asking you to repeat that.

Roogsy
09-06-2008, 01:27 PM
Seattle? Prolly not. Philly? I would say yes.

But one thing for sure...no way they can ask for the kind of expansion fees they are asking for now.

jloome
09-06-2008, 01:46 PM
Why does this falsehood get repeated over and over again on these boards?

The Fusion failed because they played in a high school stadium 30 miles north of Miami. They had horrible ownership, a Steinbrenner-type with no money who abused the season ticket holders. The league "temporarily" contracted out of Miami and Tampa at a point in MLS' existence (2001) when the survival of MLS itself was a real question mark. At the time, South Florida was promised that MLS would return.

South Florida has over 6 million people and the level of soccer interest is enormous. You drive around, you don't see baseball fields, just miles and miles of soccer fields. Miami Herald and El Diario give the Latin American leagues major coverage. Even Miami FC, who are not a competitive side, get decent coverage.

Miami is not just Cuban. There are large communities of wealthy expatriate Hondurans, Guatemalans, Panamanians, Venezuelans, Colombians, Peruvians, Argentines.....as well as lots of Europeans.

With a centrally located SSS (that's the hold up), Miami would be the single best market in MLS, bar none, including Toronto.

Ask Tyrone Marshall his opinion (I have) - he played for the Fusion. MLS today would be huge down there.

This is the single biggest priority market for MLS, whether we want to hear it or not.

Just search "Miami MLS" on bigsoccer or google, you might learn something....

I do, and I disagree. It is a high priority, but it's not the league's biggest priority. Judging by Garber and Gazidis over the last year, it's quite obvious that St. Louis is their top priority.

In fact, both Portland and Montreal have been mentioned by the league substantially more than Miami in the last year.

Having said that, you make very valid points about why it would succeed there. Miami FC is doing okay playing with a mediocre product in a crap ballpark, and in an SSS with Barcelona's backing? What, are you kidding me? They'd do great. On top of that, Florida has more sports-specific television options than any state outside of New York and Californial, so they're guaranteed good coverage in both Spanish and English. It makes a lot of sense.

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
09-06-2008, 02:03 PM
I don't see Florida getting an MLS team, though I admit the market isn't as dire as some think.

What I am unhappy with the is the whole "Barcelona USA" name. When is the league gonna learn that naming a club after a well-established European team isn't paying homage. Instead, it's simply riding the coatails of a more historic organisation.

Just another thing we do that makes us look bushleague.

thats where your wrong, this club would be operated by Barca like the other barcelona sc. in ecuador

loconet
09-06-2008, 04:03 PM
Heard about this a few weeks ago. lame