Expansion Question

[CDNSoccerFan]

Its confirmed that Seattle joins next year followed by Philly the year after (2010).

Have they said how many teams will come in 2011? I remember reading how Vancouver and Montreal will make bids to join. Will that comes in 2011 or 2012?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

MLS will expand by two teams for the start of 2011 season.....

Short List!

Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Atlanta, Las Vegas, a second team in the New York area, Portland, and St. Louis

i Predict

MONTREAL and PORTLAND

[CDNSoccerFan]

Thanks.

I'm hoping its Van and Mtl. The rivalries would be great.

Plus I remember reading how Steve Nash is partnered with the WhiteCaps in trying to get MLS to Vancouver.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Thanks.

I'm hoping its Van and Mtl. The rivalries would be great.

Plus I remember reading how Steve Nash is partnered with the WhiteCaps in trying to get MLS to Vancouver.

correct!


I think they will end up bringing in a eastern side along with a western side... I just think Portland will take out vancouver..in this round!..hope im wrong and both canuck sides come in!

[RPB_Brantford_08]

2011......Montreal.......St Louis

2013......Atlanta......Portland

2015......NY2...........Ottawa

[Flashman]

2011......Montreal.......St Louis

2013......Atlanta......Portland

2015......NY2...........Ottawa

LOL, Ottawa before Vancouver? What have you been smoking?:hump:

[Billy the kid]

It would be nice if some concrete news would come out on this front, 2011 isn't that far away.

[King Jeff]

It would be nice if some concrete news would come out on this front, 2011 isn't that far away.

Applications need to be formally made by October 15. As I recall, the winning teams were going to be announced towards the end of next year.

[Cashcleaner]

Montreal and St. Louis in 2011.

I think that's the likeliest of scenarios.

[flatpicker]

Montreal and St. Louis in 2011.

I think that's the likeliest of scenarios.


makes sense... but I wouldn't rule out the influence Steve Nash will have on the Vancouver bid.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Montreal and St. Louis in 2011.

I think that's the likeliest of scenarios.

not likely!


Portland are a well established USl team.....they'll go ahead of LOUIS but who knows! :)

[Flashman]

I also think Montreal and St. Louis likely in 2011. Probably Vancouver and Portland/Atlanta/Miami in 2013.

Montreal and Vancouver are probably the two best possibilities for MLS expansion, but there is no way they could give the only two expansion franchises in 2011 to Canadian cities. There would be too much backlash from the Americans who still consider this an American league. More likely a slow evolution into a North American league.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Its going to be Montreal and Vancouver!! They are the next two teams to enter the MLS! Guaranteed.

[TFC 420]

St.Louis is having trouble finding a local ownership group.

[bee dubya]

These announcements are normally made in conjunction with some sort of MLS event. I would expect that the announcement would be formally made at either the MLS Cup or the next MLS Draft.

[Fort York Redcoat]

MLS wants St Louis. We know it's not a good spot but MLS started in Columbus for crying out loud. I'd prefer they get the Canadian teams in but I don't think it's a priority to MLS. The ylike to spread their coverage. Seattle/Vancouver has a great rivalry aspect but I don't think MLS cares as much.

Why don't they wait the couple of years and then move Columbus to St Louis. It'll be as exciting as Salt Lake anyway.:Yawn:

[TFC 420]

I'm waiting for 2012 when the relocation happens. lol

[bdiddy]

The one thing I am concerned about is the fact that with all these franchises taking up USL spots; that some of the other players (who had a chance to play/learn/excel) at a lower division won't have that opportunity.

Unless MLS goes and creates a DIV 1/DIV 2 type system with relegations.

[TFC 420]

USL is always adding new teams and lower division. Toronto Lynx is now a lower league USL side

[Stouffville_RPB]

Montreal and Portland get in first. I am worried that the MLS is expanding a little too quick. Does anyone know if MLS plans on changing the number of Canadian players that need to be on a Canadian team if Montreal or Vancouver get in?

[rocker]

that canadian stuff is supposed to be reassessed at the end of 2009 I believe. (right when they are also renegotiating the collective agreement with the players).

[Stouffville_RPB]

^ thanks

[Smenge]

I like TFC's playoff chances for 2013.

[T_Mizz]

I'm pretty sure St.L was trying before we were, all they need is local ownership as soon as they get it everything is set. It will probably be an even expansion, ie one each from the west and east, so...

List of East Teams: Montreal, Florida, NY2, Ottawa, Atlanta
List of West teams: Vancouver, Portland, Vegas
List of central teams that could go either way: ST.L

[Wooster_TFC]

Montreal and Portland get in first. I am worried that the MLS is expanding a little too quick. Does anyone know if MLS plans on changing the number of Canadian players that need to be on a Canadian team if Montreal or Vancouver get in?

There are no limits to how many canadians are on a canadian team. There are limits to how many non-canadians are on a canadian team. See http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3237 for more information on what the future might look like for TFC.

[T_Mizz]

He prolly just means are they going to change the amount of international slots for canadian teams

[Sab0tage]

2011......Montreal.......St Louis

2013......Atlanta......Portland

2015......NY2...........Ottawa Every single one you listed with the exception of Portland is an East coast team. The conferences wouldn't be balanced, unless they moved St. Louis and Kansas to the West.

And Ottawa over Vancouver? :confused:

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Its going to be Montreal and Vancouver! I already know this for a fact, It will be announced in November...

[T_Mizz]

Its going to be Montreal and Vancouver! I already know this for a fact, It will be announced in November...
Let's hope your right even tho I think TFC still has exclusive rights in Canada

[CDNSoccerFan]

If Van can finailze that new stadium by the ocean side I think there a lock.

[Stouffville_RPB]

There are no limits to how many canadians are on a canadian team. There are limits to how many non-canadians are on a canadian team. See http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3237 for more information on what the future might look like for TFC.

Yes, I meant to say how many Canadians we must have (i.e. domestic players).

Thank you.

[T_Mizz]

Yes, I meant to say how many Canadians we must have (i.e. domestic players).

Thank you.
Oh ok but what he said fits perfectly to what you said. There's no minimum it's all working backward from the amount of Internationals and Amernicans we're allowed and the remainding number is the amount of Domestics

[Vindaloo]

The facts so far.

- Vancouver and Montreal are currently the only organisations that have solid ownership that MLS would see as franchise friendly.

- Vancouver has further solid ownership with additional investors such as Steve Nash. Montreal doesn't have this yet.


- Vancouver is the only organisation that has made an official bid I think. Has Montreal even made an official bid yet?? Isn't Oct the deadline for bids? It's coming up fast for these other supposed cities down south to get their shit going.


- Stadium plans. Montreal is already built with expansion planned with a franchise.
Vancouver already has plans for the huge overhaul of BC Place to be finished for 2011 and to play in temporarily with a plan to have their own stadium as soon as possible.


All other cities in the MLS expansion plan have none of the above yet or at least no where near this advancement in the process.

[Angelo1405]

no way MLS would let 2 Canadian teams in one year. Montreal / Portland.

[T_Mizz]

The facts so far.

- Vancouver and Montreal are currently the only organisations that have solid ownership that MLS would see as franchise friendly.

- Vancouver has further solid ownership with additional investors such as Steve Nash. Montreal doesn't have this yet.


- Vancouver is the only organisation that has made an official bid I think. Has Montreal even made an official bid yet?? Isn't Oct the deadline for bids? It's coming up fast for these other supposed cities down south to get their shit going.


- Stadium plans. Montreal is already built with expansion planned with a franshise.
Vancouver already has plans for the huge overhaul of BC Place to play in temporarily with a plan to have their own stadium as soon as possible.


All other cities in the MLS expansion plan have none of the above yet or at least no where near this advancement in the process.
The last one isn't really a plus for Vancouver, MLS wants all SSS
And Montreal has two very wealthy inventors, ok fine one wealthy investor (Saputo) and one very, very wealthy investor Gillette they've probably got the strongest bid at this point.

[T_Mizz]

no way MLS would let 2 Canadian teams in one year. Montreal / Portland.
I dunno, if the league knows what's good for it it will these are possibly the two best candidates at this point.

[Vindaloo]

Why not? Montreal AND Vancouver are currently offering what no other city down south is currently offering.

Portland isn't even close to what Vancouver has going. They have now solid ownership plans(further investment) and no solid stadium plans. Their only stadium plans revolve around converting a baseball stadium into a SSS and then relocating the baseball team into another fresh built baseball stadium, all paid for with public funds. The current Portland ownership requires further investors or the public has to pay for either the stadium or the MLS expan. fee.

Montreal and Vancouver both will be privately funded in all capacities. No-brainer for MLS.

[troy1982]

The facts so far.

- Vancouver and Montreal are currently the only organisations that have solid ownership that MLS would see as franchise friendly.

- Vancouver has further solid ownership with additional investors such as Steve Nash. Montreal doesn't have this yet.


- Vancouver is the only organisation that has made an official bid I think. Has Montreal even made an official bid yet?? Isn't Oct the deadline for bids? It's coming up fast for these other supposed cities down south to get their shit going.


- Stadium plans. Montreal is already built with expansion planned with a franchise.
Vancouver already has plans for the huge overhaul of BC Place to be finished for 2011 and to play in temporarily with a plan to have their own stadium as soon as possible.


All other cities in the MLS expansion plan have none of the above yet or at least no where near this advancement in the process.

I don't think you have been following St. Louis bid lately but they now have the ownership group finalized (Copper + 2 american and 1 European investor). They also have an agreement with the city to fund part of the stadium. Also the final design of the stadium is nearing completion.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/18/daily55.html


so they are ahead of Vancouver.

[troy1982]

Why not? Montreal AND Vancouver are currently offering what no other city down south is currently offering.

Portland isn't even close to what Vancouver has going. They have now solid ownership plans(further investment) and no solid stadium plans. Their only stadium plans revolve around converting a baseball stadium into a SSS and then relocating the baseball team into another fresh built baseball stadium, all paid for with public funds. The current Portland ownership requires further investors or the public has to pay for either the stadium or the MLS expan. fee.

Montreal and Vancouver both will be privately funded in all capacities. No-brainer for MLS.

read my post above. St. Louis is much further ahead of Vancouver.

[Vindaloo]

The last one isn't really a plus for Vancouver, MLS wants all SSS
And Montreal has two very wealthy inventors, ok fine one wealthy investor (Saputo) and one very, very wealthy investor Gillette they've probably got the strongest bid at this point.

Vancouver will have an SSS, it's going to take a bit more time to sort out. It could be next week or next year. In the meantime they will play out of $200m refurbished BC Place temporarily until new diggs are sorted.

Montreal doesn't have a confirmed extra investor in Gillette yet. Until it does, it doesn't have what Vancouver has in regards to ownership.

[T_Mizz]

But are they ahead of Montreal? Or would they be in the west then?

[T_Mizz]

Vancouver will have an SSS, it's going to take a bit more time to sort out. It could be next week or next year. In the meantime they will play out of $200m refurbished BC Place temporarily until new diggs are sorted.

Montreal doesn't have a confirmed extra investor in Gillette yet. Until it does, it doesn't have what Vancouver has in regards to ownership.
Gillette has stepped forward and made a partnership with Saputo to get an MLS team in Montreal ASAP and it doesn't matter if you're playing in the Bird's Nest MLS wants SSS

[troy1982]

But are they ahead of Montreal? Or would they be in the west then?

They aren't ahead of montreal but ahead of everyone else. The ownership group is also making the most news about an impending annoucement while the other bids remain silent.



MLS soccer franchise update

Jeff Cooper, the local man hoping to receive a MLS soccer franchise for St. Louis with a stadium to be built in Collinsville, was interviewed by KMOX's Ron Jacober this morning.
Items of interest:
Cooper has complete 49 of the 50 MLS requirements for application and the 50th and last (additional owners) is just about done. Cooper has added additional owners from this country and in Europe. He said with the strength of the Euro over the dollar it is much easier to find investors in Europe than in this country with the squimish economy.
He hopes to get his re-submitted application to MLS officials by the end of the summer and should hear something in 30 to 60 days. It appears as though Collinsville/St. Louis would be looking at a start date in 2011 should Cooper's plan be approved.
When he first began the process of buying a soccer franchise, the price was 15 million dollars. Now, it will cost 40 million dollars, the increase a result of the growing popularity of MLS soccer in this country.
Cooper had very nice things to say about Collinsville, the location and the people he's worked with in his attempt to bring this project to reality.



http://respublica.typepad.com/respublica/2008/08/mls-soccer-fran.html

[Vindaloo]

I don't think you have been following St. Louis bid lately but they now have the ownership group finalized (Copper + 2 american and 1 European investor). They also have an agreement with the city to fund part of the stadium. Also the final design of the stadium is nearing completion.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/18/daily55.html


so they are ahead of Vancouver.

Sorry I haven't been following their ownership group. I have the stadium though. This would seem they are ahead of Vancouver in terms of finalising the stadium part of the process. Vancouver could still have the Waterfront stadium sorted out soon or if they expand Swangard, which there has been recent talk of.

[T_Mizz]

Good news they desrerve a team more than most

[Vindaloo]

Gillette has stepped forward and made a partnership with Saputo to get an MLS team in Montreal ASAP and it doesn't matter if you're playing in the Bird's Nest MLS wants SSS

Is there a link on that? All I've read, up until last month, is that Gillette and Saputo have confirmed discussions on partnership. Ownership together in the form of an MLS bid has not been officially announced has it? In fact, as I mentioned before, I don't think Montreal ownership has officially announced a bid for a franshise.

[T_Mizz]

I'm pretty sure it was on sportsnet.ca like a couple months back

[Dub Narcotic]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/08/the-rest-of-y-2.html

Ives pegs Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis and New York 2 as the next franchises. If I had to guess, I would say Montreal and St. Louis get in for 2011, then NY2 and Vancouver for 2012 or later. I don't think they will add two Canadian teams in the same year, and I don't think they want to usurp the NYRB new stadium with competition right away.

Miami, Portland and Atlanta are the other possibilties. To be honest, I don't even see how you could play soccer in Atlanta in the summer, and it's a terrible pro sports town, but I think you probably need a team in Miami (again) at some point.

[T_Mizz]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/08/the-rest-of-y-2.html

Ives pegs Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis and New York 2 as the next franchises. If I had to guess, I would say Montreal and St. Louis get in for 2011, then NY2 and Vancouver for 2012 or later. I don't think they will add two Canadian teams in the same year, and I don't think they want to usurp the NYRB new stadium with competition right away.

Miami, Portland and Atlanta are the other possibilties. To be honest, I don't even see how you could play soccer in Atlanta in the summer, and it's a terrible pro sports town, but I think you probably need a team in Miami (again) at some point.
Yeah and just put them in the West that way we don't add two canadians or two from the same conference.

[gtaguy]

Let's hope your right even tho I think TFC still has exclusive rights in Canada


I still don't get that " exclusive right to canada" were a rather large country for just one professional club to have domain over the whole country..

this exclusive shit it the mindset of mlse ... they think everyone is out to get thier money... thats why the poor hamilton ppl can't get a (hockey) team out there becuase of this gay ass mlse...

The more canadian teams the better.. In my mind i think Canadians are more passionate about footy then americans anyday of the week...

[gtaguy]

I don't think you have been following St. Louis bid lately but they now have the ownership group finalized (Copper + 2 american and 1 European investor). They also have an agreement with the city to fund part of the stadium. Also the final design of the stadium is nearing completion.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/18/daily55.html


so they are ahead of Vancouver.


I can bet you money that hell will freeze over before they ever select two canadian teams in one shot.. atleast not both in 2011

[T_Mizz]

I still don't get that " exclusive right to canada" were a rather large country for just one professional club to have domain over the whole country..

this exclusive shit it the mindset of mlse ... they think everyone is out to get thier money... thats why the poor hamilton ppl can't get a (hockey) team out there becuase of this gay ass mlse...

The more canadian teams the better.. In my mind i think Canadians are more passionate about footy then americans anyday of the week...
Well excuse a multi million dollar corporation for trying to make money it's not like other conglomerates do it?

[rocker]

the canadian exclusivity clause is irrelevant.
Montreal and Vanny would not have been brought into the league before it expires anyways.

[parrott114]

this thread needs a poll....

[gtaguy]

Well excuse a multi million dollar corporation for trying to make money it's not like other conglomerates do it?


I don't knock them for make money..
thats what we are all here for ..
But you even said it so yourself "multi million dollar corporation" ..

its called monopolizing heres the meaning .
tr.v. mo·nop·o·lized, mo·nop·o·liz·ing, mo·nop·o·liz·es
1. To acquire or maintain a monopoly of.
2. To dominate by excluding others (this is the important one)

let me put this into perspective for you .. The maple leafs are called the "Toronto Maple Leafs.. Not the Greater Toronto Area including Hamilton and Kitchner maple leafs.

Maybe they are afraid of being in a competitive market, and becuase someone else does it does not justify everyone to do it....

[Beach_Red]

this exclusive shit it the mindset of mlse ... they think everyone is out to get thier money... thats why the poor hamilton ppl can't get a (hockey) team out there becuase of this gay ass mlse...

I was living in Hamilton when they went for that bid in 1990, signed up for season's tickets and everything. When Hamilton presented its bid they had a long-term financing plan and Ottawa said they'd pay all the money right away so they got the franchise. About six months later they admitted they didn't have the money and used Hamilton's financing plan...

This was all before MLSE, by the way, and the Buffalo owners were the ones who really stood to lose ticket sales.

But still, I wish someone had balls like Al Davis and just moved a team into Hamilton and said sue me, just like Davis did with the Raiders, moving them into LA.

[Redcoe15]

The ideal situation would be to add teams in Montreal, Vancouver, St. Louis, and Portland, as all would immensly add something positive for soccer in MLS.

What I believe will happen is that Montreal and Vancouver will battle it out to join St. Louis for the next two expansion teams. No way MLS adds two Canadian teams at the same time, despite the obvious strength of both bids.

But we may have to face a real possibility here that neither Mtl and Vcr get the next two spots. This is, after all, an American based league still trying to gain a foothold in the American sports conciounceness. Not to mention add some American corporate support. Don Garber made it clear, at his press conference last month, that Canadian corporations are going to have to ante up if the country wants to see more Canadian teams in MLS. There are more corporations in the U.S. than in Canada so it would seem to be easier getting that kind of support. That's why some think it's necessary to add a second New York team to the league, despite the fact that RBNY is an embarassingly pathetic draw in a market of 18 million people.

There are also those who think that MLS needs representation in the U.S. southeast, where no team exists and fan support for pro sports is the shits. That's why Atlanta will be given serious consideration. And don't count out Miami, even though they had a team and got contracted by the league and their name wasn't mentioned on the list of candidates last month. There was an recent offer by the mayor of Miami to cover half of the cost of a new SSS at the site of the Orange Bowl. It's not a stretch to suggest that MLS could come up with the other half and award a team in Miami to David Beckham once his playing days are through. There was also a wild rumour about FC Barcelona buying into an MLS side and putting it in Miami.

One more thing. There are plenty of loud American voices that say MLS shouldn't have teams from Canada playing in "their league". That Toronto FC should be playing in a Canadian soccer league with teams from across the country. How much of those jingoistic voices have an impact at MLS HQ remains to be seen.

Stay tuned.

[GhostPK]

If Van can finailze that new stadium by the ocean side I think there a lock.

I practically live in hongcouver and that oceanside stadium is still a long ways from being finalized. (some sort of land issues) However, "hardcore" whitecrap fans have argued that BC Place (home of the BC Lions in the CFL [Canadian Throwball League]) will be a temporary place for the 'craps to play in. That means another turf field with paint splashed all over it for 3/4 of the season. They were also raving about how BC place holds 50,000 people, however they were afraid to admit that no sports event held there ever comes close to filling the stadium (and they've been investigated for sending crowd noises through the stadium speakers to incease volume).

-Stuck in BC, but ALL TFC

[Wagner]

don't forget Chivas or the Crew relocating.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

O/k Let me tell you guys a little something something that a little birdy told me....

I've been trying to hold off since the All-Star game but fuck it, just believe me when i tell you this...

Yes their could be a horrendous crash and burn to all this, but seriously at this point i can't see hell freezing over, so this is the insider info i have. AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW BECAUSE I WON'T FUCKING TELL YOU! i could get fired.

A lot of the finer details are still being ironed out

Garber wants Vancouver and Montreal for numerous reasons, mainly

1) He likes the Canadian expansion thought because it gives a little bit more international credibility.
2) He really likes the amount of $$$$ both Montreal and Vancouver have in their Bank accounts
3) He needs Vancouver and Montreal in the league to tie in a National TV revenue stream up here in Canada, once he secures the NATIONAL TV DEAL it will generate a very nice CHUNK load of money for the league!! and Garber likes money!
4) They are introducing Seattle and then Philly, Garber is sick of american expansion at the moment because he has american teams that are DEAD fucking weight and he would love to cut them off, but he can't cause his hands are tied.
5) They want to link the Vancouver expansion to hype that will surround Steve Nash who is very marketable and they want to link the expansion to the 2010 Olympics which they also know will generate lots of money!!
6) He knows that the Seattle-Vancouver rivalry will be very very good! But he also knows that the Toronto-Montreal rivalry will be FUCKING EPIC.
7) He knows that Montreal is a turn-key franchise that is ready to go basically right away, their pockets are deep, and it will be a smash hit!

He knows that he is staring at two utter gold mines right in the face, and the National TV contract is $$$$ money money money!

Anyways this is already in the works, he is just trying to figure out how and when he is going to break it to the american people, He feels genuinely bad about the St.Louis bid, but he has to do what is right in terms of $$$$ for the league...and unfortunately St.Louis and Portland are gonna have to take a back seat for now....

[troy1982]

don't forget Chivas or the Crew relocating.

The Crew aren't going anywhere and neiter is kansas City. Chivas i don't know but i doubt a move very much.

[Cashcleaner]

makes sense... but I wouldn't rule out the influence Steve Nash will have on the Vancouver bid.

I just don't think the Province of BC and City of Vancouver are going to change their minds regarding the stadium issue or throw their support behind the Whitecap's ownership simply because a famous Canadian basketball player has ties to the sport and the team.

[Redcoe15]

O/k Let me tell you guys a little something something that a little birdy told me....

I've been trying to hold off since the All-Star game but fuck it, just believe me when i tell you this...

Yes their could be a horrendous crash and burn to all this, but seriously at this point i can't see hell freezing over, so this is the insider info i have. AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW BECAUSE I WON'T FUCKING TELL YOU! i could get fired.

A lot of the finer details are still being ironed out

Garber wants Vancouver and Montreal for numerous reasons, mainly

1) He likes the Canadian expansion thought because it gives a little bit more international credibility.
2) He really likes the amount of $$$$ both Montreal and Vancouver have in their Bank accounts
3) He needs Vancouver and Montreal in the league to tie in a National TV revenue stream up here in Canada, once he secures the NATIONAL TV DEAL it will generate a very nice CHUNK load of money for the league!! and Garber likes money!
4) They are introducing Seattle and then Philly, Garber is sick of american expansion at the moment because he has american teams that are DEAD fucking weight and he would love to cut them off, but he can't cause his hands are tied.
5) They want to link the Vancouver expansion to hype that will surround Steve Nash who is very marketable and they want to link the expansion to the 2010 Olympics which they also know will generate lots of money!!
6) He knows that the Seattle-Vancouver rivalry will be very very good! But he also knows that the Toronto-Montreal rivalry will be FUCKING EPIC.
7) He knows that Montreal is a turn-key franchise that is ready to go basically right away, their pockets are deep, and it will be a smash hit!

He knows that he is staring at two utter gold mines right in the face, and the National TV contract is $$$$ money money money!

Anyways this is already in the works, he is just trying to figure out how and when he is going to break it to the american people, He feels genuinely bad about the St.Louis bid, but he has to do what is right in terms of $$$$ for the league...and unfortunately St.Louis and Portland are gonna have to take a back seat for now....
Maybe he wants both Montreal and Vancouver. But I don't think he'll give them both the 17th and 18th bids. Especially since St. Louis appears to have cleared the final hurdle in acquiring investors for their bid. And this, after all, is an American league looking to grow the game in America. Prove to me I'm wrong.

[boban]

And this, after all, is an American league looking to grow the game in America. Prove to me I'm wrong.
He did.

[boban]

I just don't think the Province of BC and City of Vancouver are going to change their minds regarding the stadium issue or throw their support behind the Whitecap's ownership simply because a famous Canadian basketball player has ties to the sport and the team.
Geeee .. tell me why I ain't surprised at this answer. :rolleyes:

[Cashcleaner]

^ Actually, why don't you tell us?

[Stouffville_RPB]

O/k Let me tell you guys a little something something that a little birdy told me....

I've been trying to hold off since the All-Star game but fuck it, just believe me when i tell you this...

Yes their could be a horrendous crash and burn to all this, but seriously at this point i can't see hell freezing over, so this is the insider info i have. AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW BECAUSE I WON'T FUCKING TELL YOU! i could get fired.

A lot of the finer details are still being ironed out

Garber wants Vancouver and Montreal for numerous reasons, mainly

1) He likes the Canadian expansion thought because it gives a little bit more international credibility.
2) He really likes the amount of $$$$ both Montreal and Vancouver have in their Bank accounts
3) He needs Vancouver and Montreal in the league to tie in a National TV revenue stream up here in Canada, once he secures the NATIONAL TV DEAL it will generate a very nice CHUNK load of money for the league!! and Garber likes money!
4) They are introducing Seattle and then Philly, Garber is sick of american expansion at the moment because he has american teams that are DEAD fucking weight and he would love to cut them off, but he can't cause his hands are tied.
5) They want to link the Vancouver expansion to hype that will surround Steve Nash who is very marketable and they want to link the expansion to the 2010 Olympics which they also know will generate lots of money!!
6) He knows that the Seattle-Vancouver rivalry will be very very good! But he also knows that the Toronto-Montreal rivalry will be FUCKING EPIC.
7) He knows that Montreal is a turn-key franchise that is ready to go basically right away, their pockets are deep, and it will be a smash hit!

He knows that he is staring at two utter gold mines right in the face, and the National TV contract is $$$$ money money money!

Anyways this is already in the works, he is just trying to figure out how and when he is going to break it to the american people, He feels genuinely bad about the St.Louis bid, but he has to do what is right in terms of $$$$ for the league...and unfortunately St.Louis and Portland are gonna have to take a back seat for now....

I genuinly hope you are correct.

[rocker]

wouldn't it be tough to add 2 Canadian teams at once just because of the backlash, particularly from the USSF, not to mention American soccer fans.
To me, it's Montreal + an American team first, so that American fans and the USSF get something. Then it's Vanny + an American team for the same reason. Plus, Montreal is ready in pretty much all ways, Vanny is not.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Sure, you'll have guys like Bill Archer kick up a storm. But I think most MS fans understand how lucrative a team in Montreal could be, given Toronto's successes.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Dont think youll see two canadian teams at once, i do however think mon and van look good to go in, they will prob be paired up with american teams tho. St Louis is supposedly looking bad with no financial backing whic would be unfortunate seeing as they have a history with the football (and supposed backing from the population)

[Flashman]

News Flash!! This just in...


St. Louis Opening Doors For Other Expanion Hopefuls (http://wvhooligan.com/2008/08/27/st-louis-opening-doors-for-other-expanion-hopefuls/) Posted by Drew Epperley

Talk about an insert-foot-into-mouth kind of moment. Jeff Cooper, the man behind the machine that is trying to get a MLS club in the Gateway City of St. Louis had a couple comments about the league’s expansion fee (http://collinsvilleherald.stltoday.com/articles/2008/08/27/news/sj2tn20080827-0827cvj-cooper.ii1.txt).

“We’re not going to pay so much,” Cooper said.

“If they’re unreasonable with the price, we can go elsewhere,” he said.

http://wvhooligan.com/2008/08/27/st-louis-opening-doors-for-other-expanion-hopefuls/

[Kickit09]

why would MLS even think about NY2 when NY1 averages 11,000 per game. :crazy:

[Vindaloo]

I just don't think the Province of BC and City of Vancouver are going to change their minds regarding the stadium issue or throw their support behind the Whitecap's ownership simply because a famous Canadian basketball player has ties to the sport and the team.

The Province and the City have nothing to do with the stadium, in fact they have approved it and fully support and we saw their representation at the WFC news conference with Steve Nash.

The stadium issue is with the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, which is a corporation set up by the federal Gov't accountable to the Minister of Transport. They exist on federal land. The problem is with WFC owned land and a swap with VFPA land. VFPA's sole and only concern is the successful operation of the Port. There lays the problem and the fact that there is no governmental person to mediate in between.

Personally, I think the Caps should think about moving to the new Bridgeport Station/Casino/Airport area on the new subway line or refurb Swangard Stadium.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

LOL, Ottawa before Vancouver? What have you been smoking?:hump:


Ottawa will have a stadium before Vancouver, the whole whitecaps stadium problems have been a running joke for a while, it will not get built
in the near future anyways.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

^ Sure, you'll have guys like Bill Archer kick up a storm. But I think most MS fans understand how lucrative a team in Montreal could be, given Toronto's successes.


The impact are far ahead of TFC in team developement,history,
and MLS would love that with the Toronto Rivalry, 2011 is not that far away.

[ManUtd4ever]

^ Sure, you'll have guys like Bill Archer kick up a storm. But I think most MS fans understand how lucrative a team in Montreal could be, given Toronto's successes.

Agreed, and I believe Montreal's qualification for champion's league has further strengthened their position...

[rpb-tfc-4life]

ottawa will have problems with attendance if they were to get a team
they dont have an established love of soccer from what i see...

[Redcoe15]

why would MLS even think about NY2 when NY1 averages 11,000 per game. :crazy:
Well, these batshit insane people would gladly elabocrazy for ya!

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=727165

^ :out:

[Cashcleaner]

The Province and the City have nothing to do with the stadium, in fact they have approved it and fully support and we saw their representation at the WFC news conference with Steve Nash.


My bad, Vindaloo. You're absolutely right about the stadium and the wrangling with the Port Authority. Last I heard though, that plan was dead in the water and they're seeking alternate sites?

[ginkster88]

Actually a NY2 downtown would make a lot of sense. We should also wait to see how RB Park draws before passing judgment on attendance figures. If TFC played their games in the Rogers Center complete with pointy ball lines, do they still draw 20000? Worse still, what if the Rogers Center was in Markham?

[james]

the 2 new teams that would make most sense to join MLS for 2011 would be Montreal and Portland. They both already have well established fans and they both also only need exspansion to there stadiums that can be completed probably in less then half a year. However this is MLS....and these 2 teams joining MLS would just make so much sense that they probably wont end up joinning MLS :lol:

As for St.Louis getting a team i just think is stupid. If they are gonna get a team they just might as well move Kansas to St.Louis. I mean really how much longer can Kansas keep playing in front of 9,000 fans in a baseball or even there NFL football stadium. Whatever happened to there new stadium is that ever gonna be built???

Vancouver i hope get a team 1 day, but i think its stupid if they give them a team with no new stadium being built. BC Place is a dump and would look ugly to watch Vancouver play out of there.

Ottawa will never get a team, the market is to small and i dont think they could support a team in the long run.

As for other cities like Las Vegas or Atlanta or a 2nd NY team i dont think are close enough to getting a team. I hope they dont get a team unless any of these current teams in MLS fold and move else where. Like maybe Kansas or Columbus or Dallas or Colorado or Chivas...they all draw bad fans and any of these teams could move:D.

[nfitz]

Actually a NY2 downtown would make a lot of sense. We should also wait to see how RB Park draws before passing judgment on attendance figures. If TFC played their games in the Rogers Center complete with pointy ball lines, do they still draw 20000? Worse still, what if the Rogers Center was in Markham?New RB Park stadium is only 4 subway stops on the Path line from the World Trade Center station in Manhattan. That should improve attendance.

[billygrieveuk]

After seattle and philly join the league, that would be 16 teams.
4 more and that should be it right?
a league of 20 teams is the perfect size. anymore than that would be a circus!
I say montreal, portland, vancouver, and a team in florida!

[gmacpheetfc]

miami fc

[troy1982]

After seattle and philly join the league, that would be 16 teams.
4 more and that should be it right?
a league of 20 teams is the perfect size. anymore than that would be a circus!
I say montreal, portland, vancouver, and a team in florida!

MLS will not stop at 20 teams as long as viable markets are available.
I am think 24 teams by 2020

[Stouffville_RPB]

MLS will not stop at 20 teams as long as viable markets are available.
I am think 24 teams by 2020

You're right. The league will not stop at 20 teams. It should but it won't.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Damnit I already want them to stop once they get Montreal Vancouver so they can stop diluting talent! Not to mention more teams with one pissed off superstar dealing with MLSers trapped by the single entity.

[CDNSoccerFan]

just wanted to add about Portland's potential fan base. there womens univ. team the Portlans Pilots draw 2000+ each game which is pretty incredible

http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/12/07/25/12/dsc_7611.jpg

I think they defitnely have a legit show at one of those 2 spots in 2011

[Axeman]

ottawa will have problems with attendance if they were to get a team
they dont have an established love of soccer from what i see...

Except For ME!
RPB 4 Life(even if Ottawa get's a team):canada:

[JamboAl]

Ottawa doesn't deserve a team before Vancouver. The city isn't big enough, where are they going to put a stadium (Kanata doesn't count), and this city doesn't support anything other than hockey. And I live in (and like) Ottawa.

[stretchthetruth]

just wanted to add about Portland's potential fan base. there womens univ. team the Portlans Pilots draw 2000+ each game which is pretty incredible

http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/12/07/25/12/dsc_7611.jpg

I think they defitnely have a legit show at one of those 2 spots in 2011

I tend to take university support with a grain, simply because of the university atmosphere in the U.S., where students support their school in most sports... Not sure if the guy in the purple uni-tard would wear that to an MLS match...

[troy1982]

You're right. The league will not stop at 20 teams. It should but it won't.

For the North American market i think 24-26 is ideal. It seems alot of ppl here are saying 20 just because most top leagues in Europe max out at 20 teams. But Europe isn't N. America.

[Keystone FC]

For the North American market i think 24-26 is ideal. It seems alot of ppl here are saying 20 just because most top leagues in Europe max out at 20 teams. But Europe isn't N. America.

I think the MLS could do 24-26 but it would have to come much later like within a period of 20 years between 2012-2032. This way the talent and youth programs can keep pace with new teams being added.

[CretanBull]

just wanted to add about Portland's potential fan base. there womens univ. team the Portlans Pilots draw 2000+ each game which is pretty incredible

http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/12/07/25/12/dsc_7611.jpg

I think they defitnely have a legit show at one of those 2 spots in 2011


Couldn't they come up with something better than a Nazi salute?

[CretanBull]

For the North American market i think 24-26 is ideal. It seems alot of ppl here are saying 20 just because most top leagues in Europe max out at 20 teams. But Europe isn't N. America.

20 teams is mandated by FIFA...England's top division used to have 22 teams, but they were forced to cut it back to 20 teams.

[King Jeff]

MLS isn't exactly known for complying with FIFA regulations though, is it?

[Shakes McQueen]

I tend to take university support with a grain, simply because of the university atmosphere in the U.S., where students support their school in most sports... Not sure if the guy in the purple uni-tard would wear that to an MLS match...

Yeah, I agree. Partaking in school chants, songs, and general ridiculousnes, is considered something you "have to do" at sporting events. It also helps that the chants, songs, etc. have already been previously established, and have a history.

Supporting a new private football team, is another matter. And to top it off, there are no songs, etc. You have to create the history upon which later generations of fans will draw.

- Scott

[Redcoe15]

Couldn't they come up with something better than a Nazi salute?
Word!

[troy1982]

20 teams is mandated by FIFA...England's top division used to have 22 teams, but they were forced to cut it back to 20 teams.

FIFA has never mandated and never will the amount of teams in a first division.
FIFA only concern is the number of games players have to play. You can easily play a 40 game season with as many teams that you want. it will just not be home and away vs. everyone.

[Cashcleaner]

20 teams is mandated by FIFA...England's top division used to have 22 teams, but they were forced to cut it back to 20 teams.

Not mandatory, but just recommended by FIFA. I'd like to see us adhere to that recommendation, but I have a feeling the league will try to shoot for 24 teams (hopefully at least 3 are Canadian).

[troy1982]

Not mandatory, but just recommended by FIFA. I'd like to see us adhere to that recommendation, but I have a feeling the league will try to shoot for 24 teams (hopefully at least 3 are Canadian).

It isn't even recommended. it was just a side comment by Blatter and it has nothing to do with the amount of teams, just the amount of games.

[Fort York Redcoat]

24? I'm sure they could find the people to spend the money to buy in but to really picture the league with 24 teams I get another NHL vision where the strongest club support will be in Canada. It's lovely for us and flattering but it doesn't make for a strong league. There will have to be considerable player investment to keep quality even in expansion.

[james]

theres not even enough cities that would support a soccer team to get 24+ teams in US/Canada. If they got 24 teams i bet alot of them would fold!

[james]

just wanted to add about Portland's potential fan base. there womens univ. team the Portlans Pilots draw 2000+ each game which is pretty incredible

http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/12/07/25/12/dsc_7611.jpg

I think they defitnely have a legit show at one of those 2 spots in 2011


who cares.....Portland Timbers get like 10,000 fans a game!

[james]

Yeah, I agree. Partaking in school chants, songs, and general ridiculousnes, is considered something you "have to do" at sporting events. It also helps that the chants, songs, etc. have already been previously established, and have a history.

Supporting a new private football team, is another matter. And to top it off, there are no songs, etc. You have to create the history upon which later generations of fans will draw.

- Scott

ya but Portland Timbers already have songs. So its not like they are starting from scratch.

[RPB_Brantford_08]

Not mandatory, but just recommended by FIFA. I'd like to see us adhere to that recommendation, but I have a feeling the league will try to shoot for 24 teams (hopefully at least 3 are Canadian).

I would hate to see the scottish Premier League with 20 teams, would like to see it back to 10.

[Maple Leaf Red]

Couldn't they come up with something better than a Nazi salute?
hahaha have you seen what the clapping in the south end looks like? ;)

[AL-MO]

I would hate to see the scottish Premier League with 20 teams, would like to see it back to 10.

I would too! :lol:

[RPB_Brantford_08]

I would too! :lol:


theres talk again of going to 16??:eek:

[Cashcleaner]

I would hate to see the scottish Premier League with 20 teams, would like to see it back to 10.

I remember a while back there was talk to up the teams to 14-16, but I don't think we'll see it happen anytime soon.

[RealG-TFC]

hahaha have you seen what the clapping in the south end looks like? ;)

at least it looks cool

just sayin'