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View Full Version : Are You Happy With Mo Johnston's Performance?



alexintoronto
08-24-2008, 02:32 PM
Record:

Year GP W L T PTS GF GA +/-
2008 21 7 9 5 26 22 27 -5
2007 30 6 17 7 25 25 49 -24

Roster:

http://web.mlsnet.com/players/roster.jsp?club=t280 (http://web.mlsnet.com/players/roster.jsp?club=t280)

Mo:

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/images/2007/08/07/27VL3DcC.jpg

Antoshka
08-24-2008, 02:35 PM
yip, we're a better team now thats for sure.

denime
08-24-2008, 02:40 PM
Yeah,why not we are better than last year.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-24-2008, 02:40 PM
yep, couple things he could have done better but i am happy, teams only getting better, its a slow process but you cant just throw a team together, that just doesnt happen

dantdot
08-24-2008, 02:50 PM
Maybe. Kinda. Sorta.

CretanBull
08-24-2008, 02:58 PM
Anyone who isn't happy with what he's done, doesn't understand the nature of this league & how hard it is to do anything at all.

Captain Croatia
08-24-2008, 03:00 PM
Hes brought in players that have helped us a lot, and he has got us a group of young players who will develop in the future. For what he has to work with i think he's done all he could.

Bobo
08-24-2008, 03:00 PM
I definitely think so. We're still piecing the puzzle but once its finished, we will have a very successful team. You HAVE to take the turf issue into consideration as well. Mo has done quite a bit with his hands tied on many fronts.

wzhxvy
08-24-2008, 03:03 PM
I would say yes, despite my other critical comments. YOY, it has been a significant improvement. I just wish they did less talking and blowing smoke vs. actually doing...but its entertaining and keeps us talking :-)

sidvan
08-24-2008, 03:03 PM
Given that he has had to manipulate the cap the domestic,international slots, Chicago's whining about McBride and the turf at BMO I think he's done reasonably well. Still more work to be done - you're not finished MO!

Smenge
08-24-2008, 03:04 PM
No. His dismissal from the Red Bulls was not an accident. This guy is inconsistent and his constant bull shit about his plans rankles me. I remember how he lauded players like Andy Welsh, Samuel, and how Robert would burn up the league, and how Edu would stick around for a couple of years, meanwhile he had no clue, and it is clear, the guy in San Jose is much better....bet they surpass TFC this season....what will the MO lovers say about that?

RPB_Brantford_08
08-24-2008, 03:06 PM
No. His dismissal from the Red Bulls was not an accident. This guy is inconsistent and his constant bull shit about his plans rankles me. I remember how he lauded players like Andy Welsh, Samuel, and how Robert would burn up the league, and how Edu would stick around for a couple of years, meanwhile he had no clue, and it is clear, the guy in San Jose is much better....bet they surpass TFC this season....what will the MO lovers say about that?


No chance Yallop is an Idiot...end of....Mo is on the right track here in TO.

jmorgs88
08-24-2008, 03:11 PM
everyone has to accept that it is a slow process to develop a top side, with how tight this league is, especially in the east, we are doing alright and Mo is working to make us better and better...we have some promising youngsters and alot of quality on our first team, TFC is destined for greatness

mclaren
08-24-2008, 03:28 PM
I can't believe 23 people voted yes.

Bobo
08-24-2008, 03:29 PM
I can't believe 23 people voted yes.

So maybe its not something wrong with the 23, but the other 3.

RYANTFC
08-24-2008, 03:30 PM
I voted yes

mclaren
08-24-2008, 03:32 PM
So maybe its not something wrong with the 23, but the other 3.

It's really all a question of ambition and whether or not you believe Mo Johnston has the track record in this league and talent to take us where we want to be. I don't believe so.

Shakes McQueen
08-24-2008, 03:32 PM
So maybe its not something wrong with the 23, but the other 3.

My sentiments exactly, haha.

If San Jose turns things around, it will be because of Huckerby's arrival. The same guy we "discovered" first, and who Mo tried to sign, but he refused because of the turf.

You can't hold that against Mo.

- Scott

boban
08-24-2008, 03:36 PM
yep, couple things he could have done better but i am happy, teams only getting better, its a slow process but you cant just throw a team together, that just doesnt happen
Just to be devils advocate ...
Chicago did back in '98.. won the whole fucking thing in first year.
(Yes I know thats an anomaly, but one can't say it can't be done)

ManUtd4ever
08-24-2008, 03:39 PM
Overall, considering MoJo's handicap otherwise known as fieldturf, he has done an admirable job assembling TFC's current roster. I think TFC is now a legitimate threat to make the playoffs this season and our future looks brighter than ever...

Beach_Red
08-24-2008, 03:41 PM
It's really all a question of ambition and whether or not you believe Mo Johnston has the track record in this league and talent to take us where we want to be. I don't believe so.

I think it depends on what you think about the league. I don't know how many guys with a track record in this league would have been willing to come to an expansion team in Canada.

Mo would like to be here long enough to build an organization, I think that's clear. He knew when he took the job it couldn't be done in a couple of years, especially with owners who are well aware of the previous failure of soccer here (and how few people were going to Lynx games) and the tenuous nature of the league itself so they'll only invest incrementally.

In a few years when the salary cap is raised and the team has a little history, then it'll be easier to judge the performance of the management.

I think most of what we talk about here as the problems with the management are the result of the league's wonky rules and set-up and the fact that the league isn;t well-established enough. Face it, plenty of people on this board knew an awful lot about European leagues before TFC existed, but nothing about the MLS (exceptions, of course). Well, the rest of the world - players and agents - didn;t suddenly become believers in the league because Toronto got a team.

stu!
08-24-2008, 03:42 PM
We (they) have beaten last year's point total with 9 games to go.

Mo is constantly working the phones (he was talking about players in the Montreal hotel lobby), bringing guys in for tours and does a lot of scouting himself.

It's a second year team that had a great run earlier this year. Hopefully, it will continue to get better next season.

Beach_Red
08-24-2008, 03:43 PM
Just to be devils advocate ...
Chicago did back in '98.. won the whole fucking thing in first year.
(Yes I know thats an anomaly, but one can't say it can't be done)

Sure, it can be done when the whole league is two years old. But really, there's a big difference between then and now.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-24-2008, 04:04 PM
Just to be devils advocate ...
Chicago did back in '98.. won the whole fucking thing in first year.
(Yes I know thats an anomaly, but one can't say it can't be done)

HAHA
was thinking about mentioning it only because its prob the only time in history its every happened

rocker
08-24-2008, 04:35 PM
i wish we could take this team and play in 1998. we'd win the league too ;)
that's the era when Cunny was awesome.

dannyd
08-24-2008, 07:00 PM
I agree that TFC is better since Mo joined us lol...

dannyd
08-24-2008, 07:08 PM
Anyone who isn't happy with what he's done, doesn't understand the nature of this league & how hard it is to do anything at all.

yes... it's very hard to do anything at all lol...

sweetlemon69
08-24-2008, 08:45 PM
He's great.

MLS has stupid rules that nobody coming from the outside can even fathom.

We have a limited budget.

Limited roster spots.


Can we stop these dumb threads?

king dave
08-24-2008, 08:52 PM
I met some Scottish Celtic supporters in New York last week at the game (from Camebridge, Ontario).
The older gal is from the same town as Moe and said he wasn't well liked back home. Sex, drugs and rock'n roll kinda of stuff.
One of the dudes said Moe tried to pick-up his wife right in front of him at a bar in Hamilton.
I agree this stuff has nothing to do with being a good football manager/coach, but something to think about (ie; integrity).
KD.

Beach_Red
08-24-2008, 09:10 PM
I agree this stuff has nothing to do with being a good football manager/coach, but something to think about (ie; integrity).
KD.

It's probably not a good idea to question integrity based on hearsay - there's some irony in there somewhere.

When I first started reading this board and following TFC I'd never heard of Mo and didn't know anything about the whole Celtic-Rangers thing. I've since learned, but I still don't get it. I would have thought ending the whole "no catholics" thing would have been a good thing - kind of like Jackie Robinson ending baseball's whites-only era. The only people who hated Robinson were bigots. I'm sure the Scotland thing is different and I don't get it. I'm still leaning (I did a lot of research on the Robinson thing and wrote a radio drama about it that aired on CBC in 1996 - the 50th anniversary of his debut with the Montreal Royals).

But I've heard the same stuff from people I've met about what a teenaged, or early twenties, professional athlete Mo did in the way of partying. I wonder if there are any pro athletes who didn't party when they were younger?

For some people it's just personal in a way I don't understand, but this board really shouldn't get into it on any kind of personal level. It's all rumour and inuendo and there's a lot of history that really has nothing to do with what's going on now in Toronto.

/end rant.

ManUtd4ever
08-24-2008, 09:27 PM
If the allegations were true, it wouldn't influence my opinion or judgement of MoJo as the architect of TFC...

Derko
08-24-2008, 10:13 PM
Good job Mo, TFC are getting better.
As for the Mo/Carver haters. Piss Off I say.
I guess my heritage is coming out on that comment.LOL

flatpicker
08-24-2008, 10:15 PM
judging from this poll, it looks like Mo is going to be a shoe-in for the presidency.

Cashcleaner
08-25-2008, 01:52 AM
I'm very happy with Mo getting off the touchline and into the back office.

That said, I think I might be happier if he was back in Glasgow...

James17930
08-25-2008, 02:35 AM
Overall, considering MoJo's handicap otherwise known as fieldturf, he has done an admirable job assembling TFC's current roster. I think TFC is now a legitimate threat to make the playoffs this season and our future looks brighter than ever...

Exactly Exactly Exactly.

Gerry Dobson, in his blog, said that TFC had lost 7 players due to the turf. Two of the known ones are O'Brien and Huckerby . . . who do you think the other 5 were? Nuno Gomes, perhaps?

So, what would the team look like if Mo had been able to get all his first choice guys? Might we not be riding high in the standings and calling him a genius?

He's done a fantastic job, he's 100% with the supporters on everything we complain about and want to do (standing up for grass, going at the National Post when they published that shit article about the Columbus trip).

And remember, of course, it was he who brought in Winsper and Carver.

So what the fuck is everyone complaining about?

VPjr
08-25-2008, 03:04 AM
I voted No.

From the pure fan perspective, yes the team has performed better on the field this year. However, that's setting a pretty low level of expectation. Last year's team was one of the worst in the history of the league (almost as bad as Chivas and RSL in their first seasons).

I do agree that being a manager in MLS is very hard compared to other leagues of similar stature around the world because of the league's structure and its awkward rules. I also agree that it appears FieldTurf has become a nagging problem. Nonetheless, I don't trust his talent assessment skills and I question his commitment/the club's commitment to developing Canadian talent (a big issue for me). I will never believe that he turned over every rock to find the best possible talent for this season. I find it odd that this team has not developed the league's best scout network. We're filling the stadium and buying lots of $12 beer. There is no salary cap on front office salaries. Go out and buy the best staff in MLS and find the players we need.

I'm not at all convinced that Carver is the best possible coach that Mo could have found. Water under the bridge now but I'm starting to think that there was a reason he was never "the man" for any club in England. Some coaches are not cut out for game coaching but are excellent on the training ground. More and more, I get the feeling that Carver is a training ground coach. Winsper, from what I'm told by people who are not affiiliated to TFC (so I trust them more) is a pure genious so Kudos to the team for bringing him aboard.

I'm not sure I'd want Mo's job but he's got it and that opens him up to criticism. On the whole, I just do not like what I see and I'm not really pleased with the product on the field. I'm simply not entertained. There was a bright spot early in the sason but, like last year, the middle 10 games of the schedule were just awful and I find the team almost as unwatchable as the canadian women's national team and that is saying alot.

Regardless, I'm still there most weeks, cheering my loudest and wishing the team nothing but the best. I'm not quitting on the players...but I am frustrated.

James Oliphant
08-25-2008, 04:10 AM
Just to be devils advocate ...
Chicago did back in '98.. won the whole fucking thing in first year.
(Yes I know thats an anomaly, but one can't say it can't be done)

You are aware that the league only started in 1996, right?

CoachGT
08-25-2008, 07:19 AM
While having been a big Mo supporter early on, I'm not as convinced now that he's the answer, so I voted "no" as well.

The question I struggled with was whether he has accomplished the things that are necessary to take this team to another level. Last year, he sent stiffs packing if they didn't perform - a fresh viewpoint that kind of set a tone. But it was still a first year team so expectations were low.

This year, I think we have a better coach and generally a better roster, but we know the holes and still cannot fill them. While I understand the turf issue, other teams play on even worse turf and seem to be able to get players. And the atmosphere here has had several players comment about possibly playing here. The trades that have been made recently have been made because of other issues - Ibbe with family here, Barrett because of McBride and now Ruiz to make cap room for LA. The accumulation of draft picks only works if players drafted can come to the team and help or have a future - only two our of the five this year are currently here, and our first ever pick (who didn't play well this year at all IMO) is now gone, albeit for plenty of cash. It may be a better position to have a strong development system than to rely on drafts - too early to tell yet, but that is what has worked elsewhere in the world.

Depth that appeared to be there early in the season really is questionable at this point. Injuries, always a factor, have been down this season compared to last. We're weaker than it might appear defensively, still lacking up front, and at times this year the keeping has been challenged. Saturday we played the last thirty minutes to salvage a point after taking the first sixty off, and that seems to be more of the case in games since May. I'm now wondering whether our record early is a result of improved fitness levels, gaining points while other teams were less fit (if true, this is a huge compliment to Winsper). Now that they are in better shape, points are harder to come by. Sure, international games have played a part with players away, but that is something a manager has to consider when bringing in players.

It is a more difficult managerial job in the MLS with the cap and the strange rules that apply when bringing in players, but our foundation on the pitch doesn't seem to be a lot stronger than it was last year. While we are only a second year team, I'd have expected to see a better core of key players and some of the holes better addressed at this point. And that falls to the manager.

Shakes McQueen
08-25-2008, 07:39 AM
CoachGT:

I think part of the reason the two places with worse surfaces than BMO Field (New England & New York), seem to have no problem attracting players, is because they are... Boston and New York. Two of the more famous cities on the planet, with a ton of "social cache".

I agree with your comment, that Mo should consider international call-ups when signing players.

But when you're in our position as far as signing players, sometimes you have to take the bad with the good.

- Scott

canadaneedsmusic
08-25-2008, 07:57 AM
I voted yes. What I don't understand is people bringing up San Jose. Granted I don't know too much about them, but from what I do know is it seems like they are pushing for instant success. I mean, Huckerby has been great for them this year, but how many years does he have left? Look at TFC, Ibbe, Barret, Hemming, Roselund, Johann Smith, Gyan, Ricketts, Wynne, Velez, James, all of those guys are young, have many years left, and have shown that they are either A) able to play at this level or B) will be able to in a year or two. I think we have a bright future, and that's what Mo is going for. Even though it's frustrating to not win, I think it's better to win a lot in a few years then to win now, and then not again for a long time.

CoachGT
08-25-2008, 07:59 AM
I hear you about New York but I'm not sure that Boston has any greater attraction when compared with Toronto. I'd think that Toronto has an edge over most cities except New York and LA, and maybe, in a pinch, Chicago.

Stouffville_RPB
08-25-2008, 08:07 AM
All things considered I think Mo has done a good job. He's brought in better player and because they are better their country calls them. He's trying to bring in as much quality as he can. There are lot of international games this year with the Olympics and WCQ and Mo cannot be blamed that MLS refuses to acknowledge the FIFA calender. To top it all off we had a few injuries at the same time and with only 18 roster spots it really handicapped us.

He's shown that he is not just trying to sign people but sign people that can make a difference (Nuno Gomes comes to mind). It isn't his fault that players chose not to come for whatever reason. He can only make the offers he can't force people to come here. He's trying to eliminate the biggest arguement players have about coming here (the turf).

You can't blame him for selling Edu. He wasn't going to stay here for another 5 years. The money we got can really help the team in the long run and I wouldn't be suprised if Mo was pressured alittle to sell Edu. Not saying he was just saying I wouldn't be shocked.

Overall I think you have to say he's done pretty good. Somethings are out of your controll and you have to play with the cards you've been dealt. You can't get a royal flush when your dealt a 9.

Oldtimer
08-25-2008, 08:38 AM
Overall he gets a pass.

He wasn't a great coach, but had the smarts to hire a decent one whom the players respect.

If you look at how much difficulty San Jose is having at assembling a good roster (and how many years it took RSL to get to a decent level) he's on par with the league.

The scouting network needs to be addressed, particularly with respect to finding low-cost Canadian and Latin-American talent. NER ands DCU scouting networks are their strengths.

The turf is a huge handicap when trying to get decent internationals in, particularly a DP-quality striker. I didn't realize until this season how much players a prejudiced against it. If Mo can get real grass in, it will be a major feather in his cap.

Would Yallop (the other coach who was willing to take the job) have done a better job? Look at San Jose, despite having a history, they are struggling terribly in their first season back. Yallop doesn't seem to value Canadian that much more than Mo -- despite his connections with the CMNT and playing on real grass, he doesn't seem able to use his international spots to bring in star Canadians.

So for an expansion team, Mo has shown himself so far to make the grade as a GM. Can he take us to the next level? That remains to be seen.

OneLoveOneEric
08-25-2008, 08:57 AM
An emphatic no. The revolving transfer door is a bad thing for team growth and stability. ANd it shows that Mo doesn't even trust his own signings to perform. It's sick how many guys he can sign and release in the same season. It's like he's in some sort of fishing derby.

alexintoronto
08-25-2008, 08:58 AM
Can we stop these dumb threads?

Why is it a dumb thread?

FluSH
08-25-2008, 09:12 AM
WHo would have though Mo was going to get this much Love? Especially after how everyone and their father in-law gets ripped in here?!!?

Beach_Red
08-25-2008, 09:40 AM
I hear you about New York but I'm not sure that Boston has any greater attraction when compared with Toronto. I'd think that Toronto has an edge over most cities except New York and LA, and maybe, in a pinch, Chicago.

I wish this was true. Toronto is still in Canada and for almost everyone in the world, the United States -any city in the USA - is still more desired than Canada. Ask the DC United supporters how helpful it's been getting Latin American players using the word, "Washington." Who's in the ownership group at Houston, do you think that helps?

But look, the thing is, this league is getting better everyday and that's a good thing. It's tough to make the playoffs and that's good. How much could we respect a league if teams join and are instantly successful?

Smenge
08-25-2008, 09:50 AM
I can hardly wait for the supporters groups love in with MO at the end of the season.......where he will tell you that he will be signing seven new players next season...and then, after he has taken a truth serum, that he will be waiving 7 new players next season....what a fool.

boban
08-25-2008, 09:59 AM
You are aware that the league only started in 1996, right?
I probably know more about this league and the history of it than you do.

boban
08-25-2008, 10:10 AM
The turf is a huge handicap when trying to get decent internationals in, particularly a DP-quality striker. I didn't realize until this season how much players a prejudiced against it. If Mo can get real grass in, it will be a major feather in his cap.
Mo will have nothing to do with getting grass into the NSS. He can squak all he wants on the sidelines but its a purely political thing that MLSE will have to maneuver through to get grass.



Would Yallop (the other coach who was willing to take the job) have done a better job? Look at San Jose, despite having a history, they are struggling terribly in their first season back. Yallop doesn't seem to value Canadian that much more than Mo -- despite his connections with the CMNT and playing on real grass, he doesn't seem able to use his international spots to bring in star Canadians.
Are you sure about that? In a few games they will surpass us in last years total points. Also, they don't have two goalless streaks, or anything close to it, like we do. If anything they are a good team and on a role.

boban
08-25-2008, 10:19 AM
I voted No.

From the pure fan perspective, yes the team has performed better on the field this year. However, that's setting a pretty low level of expectation. Last year's team was one of the worst in the history of the league (almost as bad as Chivas and RSL in their first seasons).

I do agree that being a manager in MLS is very hard compared to other leagues of similar stature around the world because of the league's structure and its awkward rules. I also agree that it appears FieldTurf has become a nagging problem. Nonetheless, I don't trust his talent assessment skills and I question his commitment/the club's commitment to developing Canadian talent (a big issue for me). I will never believe that he turned over every rock to find the best possible talent for this season. I find it odd that this team has not developed the league's best scout network. We're filling the stadium and buying lots of $12 beer. There is no salary cap on front office salaries. Go out and buy the best staff in MLS and find the players we need.

I'm not at all convinced that Carver is the best possible coach that Mo could have found. Water under the bridge now but I'm starting to think that there was a reason he was never "the man" for any club in England. Some coaches are not cut out for game coaching but are excellent on the training ground. More and more, I get the feeling that Carver is a training ground coach. Winsper, from what I'm told by people who are not affiliated to TFC (so I trust them more) is a pure genius so Kudos to the team for bringing him aboard.

I'm not sure I'd want Mo's job but he's got it and that opens him up to criticism. On the whole, I just do not like what I see and I'm not really pleased with the product on the field. I'm simply not entertained. There was a bright spot early in the season but, like last year, the middle 10 games of the schedule were just awful and I find the team almost as unwatchable as the Canadian women's national team and that is saying alot.

Regardless, I'm still there most weeks, cheering my loudest and wishing the team nothing but the best. I'm not quitting on the players...but I am frustrated.
VPjr you expressed exactly how I feel.
Couldn't have said it any better.

What really riles me is the turnaround Mo does to the media and how alot seem to buy it. Last year he tells us how good we are going to be but in reality we were utter shit. Also, he mentions how he is going to put Canadians on the team, then any useful ones he lets go, and this year doesn't do much to explore and find more and better Canadians. And this year he says we'll make the playoffs and now its all FieldTurfs fault that we are not as its looking right now. It seems he shoots his mouth off too much.

Maple Leaf Red
08-25-2008, 10:20 AM
Are you sure about that? In a few games they will surpass us in last years total points. Also, they don't have two goalless streaks, or anything close to it, like we do. If anything they are a good team and on a role.

They've also had Ronnie O'Brien all season and nowhere near the number of injuries that we had last year but those are details and they tend to be forgotten in the rush to condemn Mo.

OneLoveOneEric
08-25-2008, 10:51 AM
I can hardly wait for the supporters groups love in with MO at the end of the season.......where he will tell you that he will be signing seven new players next season...and then, after he has taken a truth serum, that he will be waiving 7 new players next season....what a fool.

precisely.

Beach_Red
08-25-2008, 11:01 AM
Mo will have nothing to do with getting grass into the NSS. He can squak all he wants on the sidelines but its a purely political thing that MLSE will have to maneuver through to get grass.

Could it be that if the stadium had grass we would have been able to sign some players that would have helped us into CONCACAF Champions play (and go deep into the playoffs) which would mean more home games which would mean more $$$ for MLSE?

If Mo can convince them of that, they can handle the political manoeuvering to make it happen.

Roogsy
08-25-2008, 11:30 AM
Didn't vote. I am not ecstatic with Mo, but I am not overly angered. He has done a good job in some areas, been given a difficult job in others and failed miserably in some.

For me...Mo is on the fence.

boban
08-25-2008, 11:34 AM
Could it be that if the stadium had grass we would have been able to sign some players that would have helped us into CONCACAF Champions play (and go deep into the playoffs) which would mean more home games which would mean more $$$ for MLSE?

If Mo can convince them of that, they can handle the political manoeuvering to make it happen.
Yes but still have nothign to do with it.
He can mention it to MLSE, buts its MLSE who courts the council.

Fort York Redcoat
08-25-2008, 11:39 AM
Didn't vote either. I'm seeing moves but not enough to warrant real jumps in improvement. I want to see what happens at the end of the season.

T0R0NT0 FC
08-25-2008, 11:40 AM
YES! I think right now, (when Ruiz shows up...) we have the best team we've had PLUS a bunch of good draft picks. For a second year team weve' got some good young talent and more on the way.

Im' sure once we get some real grass well' get a great DP to sign.

LucaGol
08-25-2008, 11:41 AM
I guess the best answer is yes and no.

Yes because he seems committed to build the team through young players....securing us Ibrahim, Johann Smith, Marvell Wynne, Rohan Ricketts, Chad Barrett, Tyler Rosenlund, Gabe Gala, Nana Attakora, Tyler Hemming, Julius James...multiple draft picks....these are all MoJo's doing...and the list is quite impressive for just under 2 years of work. Also, he's operating with one hand tied behind his back due to the turf issues.

No because his scouting scope seems limited (no need to expand on this point), for every good young player he's brought in, he's also brought in Andy Welsh, Laurent Robert, and Jeff Cunningham. Too many big money misses for my liking.

So to sum up....MoJo..the clock is ticking....you've done some good things...but also quite a few bad things....you're not really standing out as the best manager for this team right now......but Im not 100% sure. We'll see what type of a team we are next season...at the end of which if we haven't made the playoffs...I think we should part ways.

Beach_Red
08-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Yes but still have nothign to do with it.
He can mention it to MLSE, buts its MLSE who courts the council.

This seems to be splitting hairs - "mention it?" Well sure, but in the decision making process it may be more influential than "nothing."

Anyway, we all want the same things here. My guess is Mo took this job knowing that MLSE would need a lot of convincing on a lot of issues and it would take some time. They didn't exactly dive into soccer with abandon but they are moving forward. Like all shareholder-run organizations they are cautious about investment and take baby steps but where they smell profit they go.

But, you know, Toronto is an "event town" and often the novelty wears off quickly. I think in this case the success of TFC is no novelty and won't wear off, but that will be a first for soccer in Toronto.

And maybe I'm wrong. If the amount of bitching on this board is any indication I'm not sure I'd invest much in a team here, the fans seem pretty fickle and require instant and constant gratification.

T0R0NT0 FC
08-25-2008, 11:45 AM
...at the end of which if we haven't made the playoffs...I think we should part ways.

:taz::taz::taz:

SECOND. YEAR. TEAM. Some people expect too much. Weve' already passed last years points total with 9 games to go! AND we have a great young team and good draft picks. Its' a BUILDING PROCESS people!!! Were' already better than we were last year. Give things time! ;) Patience people!

LucaGol
08-25-2008, 11:46 AM
This seems to be splitting hairs - "mention it?" Well sure, but in the decision making process it may be more influential than "nothing."

Anyway, we all want the same things here. My guess is Mo took this job knowing that MLSE would need a lot of convincing on a lot of issues and it would take some time. They didn't exactly dive into soccer with abandon but they are moving forward. Like all shareholder-run organizations they are cautious about investment and take baby steps but where they smell profit they go.

But, you know, Toronto is an "event town" and often the novelty wears off quickly. I think in this case the success of TFC is no novelty and won't wear off, but that will be a first for soccer in Toronto.

And maybe I'm wrong. If the amount of bitching on this board is any indication I'm not sure I'd invest much in a team here, the fans seem pretty fickle and require instant and constant gratification.

Why do people find the need to continually make ridiculous generalizations?

There are a lot of ppl in this world and on this board....everyone is going to have a different opinion on a lot of issues.

LucaGol
08-25-2008, 11:46 AM
:taz::taz::taz:

SECOND. YEAR. TEAM. Some people expect too much. Weve' already passed last years points total with 9 games to go! AND we have a great young team and good draft picks. Its' a BUILDING PROCESS people!!! Were' already better than we were last year. Give things time! ;) Patience people!

Can you count?...I said at the end of next season.

All together now....1...2....3. That's third year team.

T0R0NT0 FC
08-25-2008, 11:50 AM
Can you count?...I said at the end of next season.

All together now....1...2....3. That's third year team.

Wow. Your SMRT! :hump: Still have no patience... oh, and talk to me when your a real member.

alexintoronto
08-25-2008, 11:53 AM
Wow. Your SMRT! :hump: Still have no patience... oh, and talk to me when your a real member.

:rolleyes:

LucaGol
08-25-2008, 11:55 AM
Wow. Your SMRT! :hump: Still have no patience... oh, and talk to me when your a real member.

Oh right, I forgot....my opinions don't officially become valid until I become a member of the famed RPB.

And secondly, I do not think it is unreasonable, given our current standing at the cusp of the post-season.....that we should not be able to expect our manager and director of soccer to qualify us for the playoffs next season.

Cobblers
08-25-2008, 11:59 AM
wow..."real" member?!? here we go again with the high and mighty...

we are building a club, not a team to enter in a one-off tournament. success will take time and we have to wait a few years for that. If we don't see steady improvement year after year then I think we can consider management changes but until then it's premature

jabbronies
08-25-2008, 12:02 PM
In Mo I trust.

- He has brought in better players this year
- The coaching staff he's brought in has been quality so far
- He's not lying to himself or us by saying "We're good with what we have now, lets go with it and see what happens. He doesn't stop trying to improve the team.

Everyone needs to realize he is still building a foundation right now. Look at our future - Wynne, james, Roseland, Hemming, Ibee, multiple high draft picks, Barrett - these guys all have years ahead of them.

We need to look furthur than this year and IMO our future is looking great!

ilikemusic
08-25-2008, 12:32 PM
No.

He let this team go into the Canada Cup woefully undermanned and did nothing to improve between July 1 and July 22 when it would have made a huge difference. And why did it take until the ASG for the McBride deal to get sorted out? If Barrett for McBride was sitting on the table (and it was the most speculated move right out of the gate) then why did it take so long for Mo to pull the trigger?

And I know Mo and JC are not the same person but I was disgusted with the way JC called out Cunningham after he made the decision to put him in.

Progress has been very slow for this team and weve only gotten worse since the season started.

2 wins in the last 3 months.

No, I am not happy with Mo's performance.

Maple Leaf Red
08-25-2008, 12:32 PM
wow..."real" member?!? here we go again with the high and mighty...

we are building a club, not a team to enter in a one-off tournament. success will take time and we have to wait a few years for that. If we don't see steady improvement year after year then I think we can consider management changes but until then it's premature
There's the key.

Is this year's team better than last year's? Yes.
Does this team have lots of pieces with a long-term view? Yes.
Can this team grow together and improve? Yes.
Are moves being made that will push the club towards a title? Yes.

Seems to me like he's doing a good job. Sustained excellence doesn't happen overnight. Even LucaGol's three years is a short time period. At the very minimum Mo's stated that they have a five year plan so we should let it run its course.

Maple Leaf Red
08-25-2008, 12:37 PM
He let this team go into the Canada Cup woefully undermanned and did nothing to improve between July 1 and July 22 when it would have made a huge difference. And why did it take until the ASG for the McBride deal to get sorted out? If Barrett for McBride was sitting on the table (and it was the most speculated move right out of the gate) then why did it take so long for Mo to pull the trigger?
I hope you aren't equating not doing something and not trying to do something. The difficulties in making any deal in the MLS have been pretty well documented. It's not like MO was sitting on his hands doing nothing but he just couldn't get the right deal together.

As for the McBride deal would you rather he had gotten the deal done as fast as possible or that he got TFC the best result as possible? I'd prefer the latter because it matters long-term.

Smenge
08-25-2008, 12:43 PM
With all the changes to the club, this year's team is only slightly improved from 2007....remember who we lost and gave away (Edu, O'Brien, Buddle, Robert, Tebilly, Welsh, Samuel, Cunny,)....every one of them was supposed to make a difference, or not given a chance to....MO is responsible for this, nobody else.

CoachGT
08-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Ricciardi had a five year plan, and the Blue Jays are still working on it in year 7.

Mo has had a great run at drafting players, and hopefully he can keep that string going. But does drafting players accomplish more in this league than acquiring good young players from elsewhere (meaning from reserve rosters of Euro/SA clubs or from lower tier leagues) combined with a solid academy?

The academy will take years to develop. It appears that scouting is not as strong as people would like (it is probably being run through the personal contacts of both Mo and JC in European, primarily English, clubs) and at the US college level, possibly through scouting agencies.

I'm still 100% behind the team and can live with the decisions being made. But I still think this year (so far) Mo has underachieved.

flatpicker
08-25-2008, 12:46 PM
^ I think drafting decent players is helpful.

It will either serve to ad depth to a team... or in the case of Edu, you can draft a player and sell them for big bucks when they show potential for Europe.

Smenge
08-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Ricciardi had a five year plan, and the Blue Jays are still working on it in year 7.

Mo has had a great run at drafting players, and hopefully he can keep that string going. But does drafting players accomplish more in this league than acquiring good young players from elsewhere (meaning from reserve rosters of Euro/SA clubs or from lower tier leagues) combined with a solid academy?

The academy will take years to develop. It appears that scouting is not as strong as people would like (it is probably being run through the personal contacts of both Mo and JC in European, primarily English, clubs) and at the US college level, possibly through scouting agencies.

I'm still 100% behind the team and can live with the decisions being made. But I still think this year (so far) Mo has underachieved.


Talk like this gets you stoned in this forum. I think the UK biases, and MO/Carver love-in, are both the main features presented by RPB supporters in these threads. It would be utterly hilarious if either MO or Carver somehow landed a similar job in Italy's Serie B/C....and tried the same shit there. Instead, we are served a bucket of shit that we are supposed to drink with warm, smelly beer.

ilikemusic
08-25-2008, 12:48 PM
I hope you aren't equating not doing something and not trying to do something. The difficulties in making any deal in the MLS have been pretty well documented. It's not like MO was sitting on his hands doing nothing but he just couldn't get the right deal together.

The difficulties have been well documented. It hasnt stopped San Jose from assembling a better first team roster than us though. It hasnt stopped DC from winning despite a large player turnover. It hasnt stopped the woeful Crew from assembling a winning team over one off season.


As for the McBride deal would you rather he had gotten the deal done as fast as possible or that he got TFC the best result as possible? I'd prefer the latter because it matters long-term.

What im saying is that it appeared as if the Barrett deal was inevitable from the outset. Its my belief that Mo probably was holding out for more but come the ASG, Mo, Garber and the Fire management sat down and Garber said 'this is how its going to be'. Mo had delusions of granduer that he was going to fleece the Fire for some ridiculously lopsided deal. That was never going to happen and was more than a little naive on Mo's part.

I feel like Mo failed us for the Canada Cup and I hold him accountable for it. He has done little since to re-instill my confidence in him, the team has not improved it's league standing (its only gotten worse), therefore I feel no allegiance to him (which seems to be the prevailing attitude around here). Mo hasnt done anything to earn the supporters faith yet he is still treated with kid gloves.

mclaren
08-25-2008, 12:54 PM
Unfortunately, anyone who really believes Mo has a 5 year plan is kidding themselves.

mclaren
08-25-2008, 12:56 PM
The difficulties have been well documented. It hasnt stopped San Jose from assembling a better first team roster than us though. It hasnt stopped DC from winning despite a large player turnover. It hasnt stopped the woeful Crew from assembling a winning team over one off season.



What im saying is that it appeared as if the Barrett deal was inevitable from the outset. Its my belief that Mo probably was holding out for more but come the ASG, Mo, Garber and the Fire management sat down and Garber said 'this is how its going to be'. Mo had delusions of granduer that he was going to fleece the Fire for some ridiculously lopsided deal. That was never going to happen and was more than a little naive on Mo's part.

I feel like Mo failed us for the Canada Cup and I hold him accountable for it. He has done little since to re-instill my confidence in him, the team has not improved it's league standing (its only gotten worse), therefore I feel no allegiance to him (which seems to be the prevailing attitude around here). Mo hasnt done anything to earn the supporters faith yet he is still treated with kid gloves.

Well said that man.

Smenge
08-25-2008, 01:00 PM
I have to admit, I liked the boob better when he was only the coach,now that he controls the purse strings, he is proving how incompetent he is. if winning really meant anything to the MLSE bubble-heads, MO would never have been hired as a manager, and would not have lasted this long in the job....all they see are lots of bums in the seats at BMO, and, in the end, that is all that matters.

Smenge
08-25-2008, 01:02 PM
...good points. I forgot about Columbus. Seems that team knows something TFC doesn't, namely, how to build a good team out of nothing. I remember the early season attacks on that team by so many people in this forum.....unless their team bus explodes, I know who gets the last laugh this time around.

OneLoveOneEric
08-25-2008, 01:03 PM
If there is a 5 year plan, it is either a very well kept secret, or it changes monthly.
And if we're going to keep using MLS or turf as an excuse, and keep saying that it's impossible to sign good players, then why bother even paying a GM?

Maple Leaf Red
08-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Ricciardi had a five year plan, and the Blue Jays are still working on it in year 7.
Yeah, well the idea would be that he not be treated like JP (who might FINALLY get fired before year 8 of his plan).

Maple Leaf Red
08-25-2008, 02:23 PM
The difficulties have been well documented. It hasnt stopped San Jose from assembling a better first team roster than us though. It hasnt stopped DC from winning despite a large player turnover. It hasnt stopped the woeful Crew from assembling a winning team over one off season.

Well San Jose wouldn't be half as good without O'Brien and Huckerby who are two guys that would be TFC players if not for the FieldTurf. There is no debating that fact.

I am not saying that Mo hasn't made mistakes but less than two years is hardly enough time to can a GM.

Torcida
08-25-2008, 02:24 PM
I have always supported Mo, he's been doing a great job. If this poll was taken last Winter, the poll results would have been reversed.

TFC_123
08-25-2008, 03:04 PM
Mo has done an honourable job, thus far. The task of building an expansion side is difficult, to say the least. While some of his aquisitions did not work out (Welsh, Samuel, Cunningham, and Robert), they were reasonable risks - hindsight is always 20/20. Personally, I am happy to have a manager who is not afraid to shake up things. I preface that last statement, in stating I look forward to the time when the roster becomes relatively stable. Anyone want to purchase a shiny "Robert" kit?

flatpicker
08-25-2008, 03:11 PM
Anyone want to purchase a shiny "Robert" kit?


hahaha... and that is why I would never put a name on my jersey...

... the only two possible exceptions would be Dichio or Brennan.

at least you know you won't feel silly with those names.

Dichio - first goal... Toronto hero!
Brennan - the first ever player to sign with the club, fellow countryman, and captain.

Beach_Red
08-25-2008, 03:17 PM
Unfortunately, anyone who really believes Mo has a 5 year plan is kidding themselves.

Well, certainly there has to be more than one way of building a team going on at the same time. There has to be a combination of opportunism and planning. You can't go running around like a chicken with its head cut off, changing direction after every game and you also can't be so stubborn as to not change when things clearly aren't working. Players get injured, they demand trades, they give up on the team, draft picks don't work out - you just have to keep going, be flexible and grab chances when they come.

I only know about North American sports with their drafting and playoff formats so I have no idea what would work with an expansion team in Serie B (which I guess is in Italy?) or in a sport where I guess there are endless qualified managers and coaches, but I do know that teams like the Detroit Lions and the Leafs can't attract quality managers because they meddle too much.

I have no idea if Mo is any good, really, I don't know enough about soccer, but I know that if you fire a guy halfway through the second year of a team's existence and then you get on the phone to other managers you get hung up on a lot by anyone who has a choice where to work. All you can get then are dregs.

mclaren
08-25-2008, 03:19 PM
It's interesting how more evenly the opinion is on the U-Sector forum: http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector/index.php?showtopic=7818

mclaren
08-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Well, certainly there has to be more than one way of building a team going on at the same time. There has to be a combination of opportunism and planning. You can't go running around like a chicken with its head cut off, changing direction after every game and you also can't be so stubborn as to not change when things clearly aren't working. Players get injured, they demand trades, they give up on the team, draft picks don't work out - you just have to keep going, be flexible and grab chances when they come.

I only know about North American sports with their drafting and playoff formats so I have no idea what would work with an expansion team in Serie B (which I guess is in Italy?) or in a sport where I guess there are endless qualified managers and coaches, but I do know that teams like the Detroit Lions and the Leafs can't attract quality managers because they meddle too much.

I have no idea if Mo is any good, really, I don't know enough about soccer, but I know that if you fire a guy halfway through the second year of a team's existence and then you get on the phone to other managers you get hung up on a lot by anyone who has a choice where to work. All you can get then are dregs.

Of course, you need long-term planning in place - nobody disputes that. What we can dispute, and debate, is whether we really think Mo Johnston has a 5 year plan.

TFC_123
08-25-2008, 03:23 PM
hahaha... and that is why I would never put a name on my jersey...

... the only two possible exceptions would be Dichio or Brennan.

at least you know you won't feel silly with those names.

Dichio - first goal... Toronto hero!
Brennan - the first ever player to sign with the club, fellow countryman, and captain.
I'm wrestling with the decision to either place "Brennan" on my next kit or leave it blank.

trane
08-25-2008, 03:26 PM
At this point, I realy do not know. I will make up my opinion at the end of the season. The final standings will be the main factor in my judgement. It has all been too up an down.

alexintoronto
08-25-2008, 03:27 PM
It's interesting how more evenly the opinion is on the U-Sector forum: http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector/index.php?showtopic=7818

And on the NEE...

http://www.kickabola.com/showthread.php?t=15639

FluSH
08-25-2008, 03:32 PM
And on the NEE...

http://www.kickabola.com/showthread.php?t=15639

LAWL

That's not even at ALL!

5 voted - yes

20 voted - no

That's like our reverse...

Beach_Red
08-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Of course, you need long-term planning in place - nobody disputes that. What we can dispute, and debate, is whether we really think Mo Johnston has a 5 year plan.

Oh, I'm sure he had to show the board of directors SOMETHING when they interviewed him for the job. They probably also wanted someone at least familiar with the wonky MLS rules.

The thing is, it's the same 5 year plan every other sports' team manager has; "I'm going to draft as many good players as I can and sign as many quality veterans as will come to the team."

In truth, we have no idea what goes on when trying to sign players - it all happens behind closed doors between manager and agents, even many players don't have much say.

The only manager performance that's completely out in the open is the draft. In some sports it's not even important - from what people here tell me European soccer is one of them - and in others it's against the rules to trade away first round picks to protect expansion and weak teams from crappy managers.

It seems like MLS is in the middle. It wants to be a North American sport with the draft from NCAA as the most important player acquisition route, but it is soccer so it has to work with the rest of the world.

It's going to be a bumpy ride...

alexintoronto
08-25-2008, 03:38 PM
LAWL

That's not even at ALL!

5 voted - yes

20 voted - no

That's like our reverse...

ya ya ya - I meant and at NEE... it's no where near the same! didn't you see the "..." !!!

T_Mizz
08-25-2008, 04:00 PM
MLS should be more like the rest of the world and has made strides what with the youth academies and reserve league and the amount of foreign talent. Mo can help us continue into the transition as he has experience in both soccer worlds

ilikemusic
08-25-2008, 05:07 PM
Hmmmm....Im beginning to like the other supporters groups a little better now. :p

:lol:

alexintoronto
08-26-2008, 09:40 AM
I guess the best answer is yes and no.

Yes because he seems committed to build the team through young players....securing us Ibrahim, Johann Smith, Marvell Wynne, Rohan Ricketts, Chad Barrett, Tyler Rosenlund, Gabe Gala, Nana Attakora, Tyler Hemming, Julius James...multiple draft picks....these are all MoJo's doing...and the list is quite impressive for just under 2 years of work. Also, he's operating with one hand tied behind his back due to the turf issues.

No because his scouting scope seems limited (no need to expand on this point), for every good young player he's brought in, he's also brought in Andy Welsh, Laurent Robert, and Jeff Cunningham. Too many big money misses for my liking.

So to sum up....MoJo..the clock is ticking....you've done some good things...but also quite a few bad things....you're not really standing out as the best manager for this team right now......but Im not 100% sure. We'll see what type of a team we are next season...at the end of which if we haven't made the playoffs...I think we should part ways.

This answer sums up my opinion pretty well - though I think we should have won the Canada Cup this year and make the playoffs.

Dozitwin
08-26-2008, 11:49 AM
He's been doing his job and trying to build a better team from both a player and coaching prespective. We can't fault him for not getting Huckerby and the like...the turf is to blame for that one.

Shaughno
01-16-2009, 11:17 AM
He's been doing his job and trying to build a better team from both a player and coaching prespective. We can't fault him for not getting Huckerby ...the weather and sunny beaches are to blame for that one.

Fixed. ;)

Remember what they train on in San Jose on an almost daily basis... turf!

Rudi
01-16-2009, 11:44 AM
Fixed. ;)

Remember what they train on in San Jose on an almost daily basis... turf!
WTF.

Dude I know you like the funny stuff, but does it really slow you down enough to take 5 months to respond to a thread? :D

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-16-2009, 02:01 PM
he has improved then team greatly for season one, season three looks promising although we might just miss out on the playofs again, which is to be expected for a club entering its third year, but anything can happen once the first kick in March.

jabbronies
01-16-2009, 02:06 PM
So far so good.

- He has a decent core group of players in place
- We seem to have a few young guys who can step up once our veterans start to retire.
- He's hired a decent staff
- Not afraid to admit to his faults and get rid of shite players.
- Has put us in a good position with allocation money and draft picks

I'm happy so far. I won't call for his head until year 5...He did say it would take 5 years to reach were they want to be. So I'll give him that. He seems to be working towards that right now with the moves he's making.

TFC07
01-16-2009, 02:10 PM
Overall, he has been okay...he made some great deals/signings while he made some awful signings as well.

Shakes McQueen
01-16-2009, 09:10 PM
I was a little sore when he put all of our eggs in one basket with the Dickov shenanigans last season, but aside from that, I think Mo has been great.

No GM will ever strike gold 100%, in every move he makes. Nor do I expect to agree with every single thing the guy does.

But on the whole? He has done well.

He got us DeRo for peanuts, when many of us thought it was unlikely he would be coming here for years, if at ALL. He got us Barrett, for nothing. He got us Guevara, and turned him into a good, team player. He got us a couple of promising wingers in Ricketts and Johann Smith.

Now he managed to get us three of the top five rated players in the draft this season.

I have no idea how this team will do this season, but I really think we are poised to potentially take home the cup within the next couple of seasons, depending on whether we sign the last few pieces of the puzzle we need.

- Scott

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
01-16-2009, 09:14 PM
ive always said i give em 3 years......


To be continued....

J .
01-16-2009, 10:20 PM
Yeah, he is doing exactly what he would said. Sure he said a few times he was bringing players in and nothing materialized, but judging him on a five year plan to build up young talent and have a perennial contender. I met him a couple times and he always seem to have a long term plan in mind even if he was making moves during the season.

I think 3 years in we are on the route. I think with adding DeRo, the young talent and hopefully a defender we have a good squad.

------------Sutton
Wynne - Harmse/Nana-Brennan-Dunivant
------------Robinson
Ricketts --------------DeRo
-----------Guevara
------------Barrett


Cronin
Marshall
White
Frei
Velez
Nana
Dichio
Ibbe
JoSmith

If that was our opening day lineup, I would be satisfied. Nana and Harmse I think played well enough to get a shot at playing everyday. Also knowing that Mo would add more in the summer, I think we are well suited for next season. Well balanced squad.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-16-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah, he is doing exactly what he would said. Sure he said a few times he was bringing players in and nothing materialized, but judging him on a five year plan to build up young talent and have a perennial contender. I met him a couple times and he always seem to have a long term plan in mind even if he was making moves during the season.

I think 3 years in we are on the route. I think with adding DeRo, the young talent and hopefully a defender we have a good squad.

------------Sutton
Wynne - Harmse/Nana-Brennan-Dunivant
------------Robinson
Ricketts --------------DeRo
-----------Guevara
------------Barrett


Cronin
Marshall
White
Frei
Velez
Nana
Dichio
Ibbe
JoSmith

If that was our opening day lineup, I would be satisfied. Nana and Harmse I think played well enough to get a shot at playing everyday. Also knowing that Mo would add more in the summer, I think we are well suited for next season. Well balanced squad.



the 5 year plan was always the way to go, instead of listening to the lunatic fringe who wanted playoff action in year 2...TFC and Mo are building the team right, not following in the path of going for instant
help and a quick fix like Torontos loveable losers, Leafs, Raptors,Rock,
Jays...did i forget anyone...nah...TFC have learned from these teams
that you build slowly and rightly...No offence to the Rock as i am a fan of theirs, but they seemed to lose the plot after Les Bartley passed on, and have never recovered. Jays the best they can ever hope for in the future
is 3rd place at best,they cant compete with the Yanks and Sox..Raptors??Maybe they have caught the Leafs disease? TFC look like building a potential MLS championship winning side. well done Mo

AL-MO
01-16-2009, 10:45 PM
5 year plan? :lol:

TFC makes the playoffs this season or Mo is gone.

Super
01-16-2009, 10:56 PM
5 year plan? :lol:

TFC makes the playoffs this season or Mo is gone.

Right now he is enjoying an 80% approval rating (based on another thread on this board) but if we fail to make the play-offs he's very likely going to venture into Bush numbers. Same applies for Carver, though. Personally, if we get a solid striker and CB, I can't put my finger on what more Mo could've done. Outside, of course, from getting us a DP -- but I have a feeling that has more to do with players not wanting to come to Toronto than Mo's work on getting us one.

Shakes McQueen
01-16-2009, 11:00 PM
5 year plan? :lol:

TFC makes the playoffs this season or Mo is gone.

In all fairness to the man, he did come in saying five years from the start. He seems poised to create a strong MLS cup contender far earlier than that, but if he needs a little longer to create a contender, without mortgaging the club's future (ie. trading away all of our young assets to make one good run at the championship), I can live with that.

I really think the big question mark with this team, this season, will be the defense. With the addition of DeRo, and whoever this mystery striker is, along with the continuing maturation of Barrett, and the healthy return of Dichio - we should be fine in the attacking third. And if White and Ibbe mature nicely, we should be set for the future there as well.

In fact, it looks like we've also got a pretty deep bench this season, except for defenders.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
01-16-2009, 11:08 PM
Right now he is enjoying an 80% approval rating (based on another thread on this board) but if we fail to make the play-offs he's very likely going to venture into Bush numbers. Same applies for Carver, though. Personally, if we get a solid striker and CB, I can't put my finger on what more Mo could've done. Outside, of course, from getting us a DP -- but I have a feeling that has more to do with players not wanting to come to Toronto than Mo's work on getting us one.

It all depends on the context of our season. If we do better this season, then I think Carver is safe.

If we don't, then it's time to look at the context of our failure. I don't think last season was Carver's fault - it was a lack of depth, and true scoring threats. Roster issues.

Mo seems to "get" where our issues were, because he added DeRo, and is apparently about to add another striker... clearly to address our attacking shortcomings. Depending on who the striker and CB he adds are, I'd say we've got a legitimate chance at not only making the playoffs, but perhaps even getting through the first round.

I suspect Carver will get a lot out of this squad, and I suspect having DeRo commanding the middle of the pitch, will probably gives us some confidence and swagger on the attack, that we sadly lost during the second half of last season.

I don't know... I just can't wait for this season to start now. I want to see what kind of a difference DeRo makes to our goal differential. The wait to opening day is killing me, because of all of this idle chatter about what might or might not happen.

- Scott

Beach_Red
01-16-2009, 11:29 PM
5 year plan? :lol:

TFC makes the playoffs this season or Mo is gone.

5 years to a championship. Playoffs this year.

Shakes McQueen
01-17-2009, 12:07 AM
5 years to a championship. Playoffs this year.

That's a pretty realistic expectation.

- Scott

Azerban
01-17-2009, 12:22 AM
5 years to a championship. Playoffs this year.

What the fucking difference? We had 4 points less than the MLS Cup runners up last year.

5 years to a Supporters Shield. Playoffs this year.

Azerban
01-17-2009, 12:22 AM
also forums necromancy rules

Davenport
01-17-2009, 12:09 PM
A simple NO.

T0R0NT0 FC
01-17-2009, 12:50 PM
I'd rather have a few trying seasons and build a constant contender (like the Detroit Red Wings) with good drafting etc then get all up in arms about making the playoffs this season as a MUST.
Things take time, this is only our THIRD season afterall. Hopefully we can sign a DP and another striker from somewhere, which would greatly help us in our chances of making the playoffs. But lets not lose sight of the goal here. Constant contender or winner of the MLS Cup every season.
If we build this team right there is no reason why we cant' become the Manchester United of the MLS and year after year be the team that everyone else is trying to catch. We already have the best fans in the league, so lets work on making TFC the best team in the league too. Patience my friends! :D

Mark in Ottawa
01-17-2009, 03:22 PM
It is always hard to know all that is going on behind the scenes... with the league and the upper management of TFC. Mo obviously has had to start from scratch.

Year 1 was a gamble... would the fans take to TFC? Draft and build a squad. Try to get known in the community... Start thinking of an academy...

Year 2 the fans were for real so now was time to start building the organization... get a coach and free Mo up for that other management stuff... get a fitness guru after all of those year 1 injuries... watch the MLS rules morph into some weird "play the guys off the street" beast and lobby to deal with it... get the Nutralite Championship off the ground.

And now comes year 3... time to improve the on field product and keep the fans interested. Grass field? Change to international call up regime? Stadium improvements? There is still a lot on the plate.

So far I think Mo has done a bang up job and look forward to the result of the "5 year plan".

Remember I lived through the birth of the "modern day" Ottawa Senators. They got a lot of things right but also made some unbelievable cockups on their way to respectability. And now that they are bottom dwellers they still have enough community following and organizational class to carry it off!

Long live TFC!

rocker
01-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Year 1 was a gamble...
Year 2 the fans were for real so now was time to start building the organization...
And now comes year 3...

three years is what it took columbus... so we're on track :) they were shit in 2006 (let's call that Year 1 of the building process, with no playoffs).. massive changes in the offseason.. then out of that mess they find a core in 2007 (Year 2, close, but no playoffs), and then out of that they surround the core with good bit players and Year 3 they win the cup..

Mark in Ottawa
01-17-2009, 03:35 PM
^^ Hey with a little luck along the way... who knows :p

giambac
01-18-2009, 02:25 PM
I can't beleive only 40 people in the poll to date said no.

I'm not happy with MO.

Last year was a disgrace. We didn't make the playoffs, we couldn't advanc eagainst Maontreal and Vancouver and we didn't sign a DP player.

We still haven't signed a DP player. He did dget DeRo but that is far and IMEAN FAR FROM ENOUGH. What is he waiting for?

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-18-2009, 02:52 PM
I can't beleive only 40 people in the poll to date said no.

I'm not happy with MO.

Last year was a disgrace. We didn't make the playoffs, we couldn't advanc eagainst Maontreal and Vancouver and we didn't sign a DP player.

We still haven't signed a DP player. He did dget DeRo but that is far and IMEAN FAR FROM ENOUGH. What is he waiting for?


big deal..a second year club is not supposed to make the playoffs, its still buidling a club...if playoff action is what you want you may be disappointed again this season... Canada cup...who cares its a 3 team
exhibition tournament...has little value....DP who cares that for teams
that need fannies in the seats...not our problem...your asking for too much too soon

backbeat
01-18-2009, 03:37 PM
we get down on last year results quite a bit but i think they were a pretty good side all in all. if not for all the international dates and subsequent
loss of starters i am sure we would have vied for a playoff spot.

i like what Mo is doing and the passion of JC - we're looking great for the coming season, depth added and the soon to be signing of an experienced striker and CB - it's going to be a fun ride, can't wait!!!

Cambridge_Red
01-18-2009, 03:50 PM
No not happy, but Im hopeful this season we will accomplish alot more. Anyone who is happy with our first two season might be a little jaded. I love TFC as much as everyone but the proof is in the pudding folks.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-18-2009, 04:15 PM
No not happy, but Im hopeful this season we will accomplish alot more. Anyone who is happy with our first two season might be a little jaded. I love TFC as much as everyone but the proof is in the pudding folks.

for the first two seasons you couldn't have asked for more then what TFC gave...MLS is a very competitive league and you cant be a MLS in your fiest season, or even a playoff contender. If we finish this sason at .500
then that would be an improvement over last season and maybe get us into the playoffs. We are still another 2 season from being a dominant
club in MLS....patience is needed.

Cambridge_Red
01-18-2009, 04:30 PM
Mediocrity isn't on my agenda, last season I thought we should've been in the playoffs. DeRo was a great bit of business by Mo, I just crave results.

rocker
01-18-2009, 04:41 PM
if TFC had turned one loss into a win, and NY Shite Bulls had turned one win into a loss, TFC would have been in the playoffs.

backbeat
01-18-2009, 04:43 PM
and that's my point - if we hadn't lost so many players to internationals we would have had a pretty good shot - the side was not all that bad last year - we're moving in the right direction and this year's gonna be fun!!

Beach_Red
01-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Last year was a disgrace. We didn't make the playoffs, we couldn't advanc eagainst Maontreal and Vancouver and we didn't sign a DP player.


I would agree with you if the team had done nothing last year, but by the end of the season the roster was better than it was at the beginning. And now it's better than it was at the end of the season.

The only way to get a DP is to overpay, to give a guy half a million or a million more than anyone else in the world will (because the same money as European team will offer won't be enough to get a guy to come to MLS, will it?) which is fine by me, it's not my money, but I'd prefer not to get that reputation right away. An expansion team is like a guy in a bar at closing time looking at all the drunk chicks who are still there. I'm too old for that. Now, this team is getting better, there are some guys who can actually play with the DP so it's starting to look more like a little earlier in the evening at the bar, there are at least a couple of chicks to choose from....

Shakes McQueen
01-18-2009, 04:48 PM
No not happy, but Im hopeful this season we will accomplish alot more. Anyone who is happy with our first two season might be a little jaded. I love TFC as much as everyone but the proof is in the pudding folks.

Everyone wants good results. It's just about being realistic.

I mean, when the Raptors entered the NBA and promptly finished near the bottom for a few years, nobody said "Woo! We are awful!" But at the same time, you had to temper your desire for results, with the reality that they were a new team, and it takes time to "build a winner".

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
01-18-2009, 04:55 PM
I can't beleive only 40 people in the poll to date said no.

I'm not happy with MO.

Last year was a disgrace. We didn't make the playoffs, we couldn't advanc eagainst Maontreal and Vancouver and we didn't sign a DP player.

We still haven't signed a DP player. He did dget DeRo but that is far and IMEAN FAR FROM ENOUGH. What is he waiting for?

Ahh giambac crawled out of his hole when he saw an opportunity to be negative.

We have no idea what potential DP's were available. The January transfer window usually isn't filled with players who are newly out of contract, because it's the middle of the goddamn season over there.

I'm personally willing to wait until the summer window, and see who becomes available then. Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, there aren't exactly marquee, DP-quality players lining up to play in MLS.

- Scott

Pachuco
01-18-2009, 05:54 PM
if TFC had turned one loss into a win, and NY Shite Bulls had turned one win into a loss, TFC would have been in the playoffs.

If TFC would have turned one win into a loss, and NY Shite a loss into a win, we'd be further out of the playoffs ;) !!

really, IFs mean nothing in sports.

Pachuco
01-18-2009, 05:57 PM
big deal..a second year club is not supposed to make the playoffs, its still buidling a club...if playoff action is what you want you may be disappointed again this season... Canada cup...who cares its a 3 team
exhibition tournament...has little value....DP who cares that for teams
that need fannies in the seats...not our problem...your asking for too much too soon

Fine that we probably expected too much by thinking that TFC would make the playoffs in year 2, I myself recognize this now. BUT, the fact you use the excuse of "who cares" for not winning the Canada Cup makes me laugh. We certainly underachieved last year because we didn't win this cup! The is the sole reason I write off last year as a year where we underachieved.

Shakes McQueen
01-18-2009, 06:23 PM
Fine that we probably expected too much by thinking that TFC would make the playoffs in year 2, I myself recognize this now. BUT, the fact you use the excuse of "who cares" for not winning the Canada Cup makes me laugh. We certainly underachieved last year because we didn't win this cup! The is the sole reason I write off last year as a year where we underachieved.

I agree that losing the Canada Cup to Montreal was a huge disappointment. I see red every time I think of that goal line sitter that Cunningham blew with a few minutes to go, that would have given us the win.

- Scott

Torcida
01-18-2009, 07:27 PM
Wow, almost 80%. I agree with the majority, but it wasn't long ago when us Mo supporters were in the minority. Funny how things change.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-18-2009, 09:26 PM
Wow, almost 80%. I agree with the majority, but it wasn't long ago when us Mo supporters were in the minority. Funny how things change.


Backed Mo from the start...proud to say....Torontos desperate try for anykind of playoffs makes some fans lose focues... Champions are not made over night....not in the 2nd, 3rd years either.

TOBOR !
01-19-2009, 01:59 PM
ZZzzzz...

olegunnar
01-19-2009, 02:42 PM
Wow, almost 80%. I agree with the majority, but it wasn't long ago when us Mo supporters were in the minority. Funny how things change.

You do realize this poll is from August right?

CretanBull
01-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Fine that we probably expected too much by thinking that TFC would make the playoffs in year 2, I myself recognize this now. BUT, the fact you use the excuse of "who cares" for not winning the Canada Cup makes me laugh. We certainly underachieved last year because we didn't win this cup! The is the sole reason I write off last year as a year where we underachieved.

We were 1 Cunny missing a sitter away from winning it, hardly management's fault. In fairness, Montreal has knocked off better clubs than TFC since beating us...

bgnewf
01-19-2009, 04:21 PM
Mo Mo Mo!! Where to begin:


Any of you remember the innuendo from Mo last summer while we were in a playoff race that we might get grass from the sale of one of our best players to Glasgow Rangers? That worked out well.
Any of you ever watch an interview with Mo and see what a bang up job he is currently doing to sell this game and this team to a wider Toronto sports audience than the TFC faithful? Go back and read morgan Campbell's blog in the Star for a good example of his style
Andy Welsh, Colin Samuel, Oliver Teliby, Laurent Robert.....and the list goes on
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada. This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.
To me, Mo has been coasting on his reputation as having a good eye for NCAA talent. Yes he has done relatively well in that regard and deserves some credit for the job he has done, including this year. But that is not the only part of the job. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked about his management style, his inter-personal relationships in the Soccer world, his forthrightness and frankly his honesty. Have to say I am somewhat shocked that he has gotten such a ringing endorsement from your group.

Oldtimer
01-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada.

You probably don't realize that there are only 4 major agents representing players in US & Canada? This isn't Europe.

bgnewf
01-19-2009, 04:59 PM
You probably don't realize that there are only 4 major agents representing players in US & Canada? This isn't Europe.

Actually I am aware of this and I stand by my concern. Many of the overseas guys are or were represented by MacLean, not just the North American based players. Either something is not being addressed in public or Mo is so bereft of contacts in the Soccer world that he has to rely on his agent alone to open doors for him. To me either of these is a concern that he needs to address.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-19-2009, 05:41 PM
Mo Mo Mo!! Where to begin:


Any of you remember the innuendo from Mo last summer while we were in a playoff race that we might get grass from the sale of one of our best players to Glasgow Rangers? That worked out well.
Any of you ever watch an interview with Mo and see what a bang up job he is currently doing to sell this game and this team to a wider Toronto sports audience than the TFC faithful? Go back and read morgan Campbell's blog in the Star for a good example of his style
Andy Welsh, Colin Samuel, Oliver Teliby, Laurent Robert.....and the list goes on
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada. This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.
To me, Mo has been coasting on his reputation as having a good eye for NCAA talent. Yes he has done relatively well in that regard and deserves some credit for the job he has done, including this year. But that is not the only part of the job. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked about his management style, his inter-personal relationships in the Soccer world, his forthrightness and frankly his honesty. Have to say I am somewhat shocked that he has gotten such a ringing endorsement from your group.


1, he said might get grass did not say for sure...that is out of his control
go see the Toronto council and Toronto taxpayers for that answer.
2. Campbells blog is .........?? well it it what it is...boring.
3. Welsh...never any good....Samuel...had the potential to be good, but
his ego got in the way...Tebily would have been great if the man stood up to his wife....gutless. Robert...played good for the first few games..is it Mos fault these guys stopped trying..??? NO

His honesty is the best in Torontos sports...Brian Burke and Ron wilson
are liars at best....the Jays lie every time the tell their fans we will be in contention when they know that cant compete....Raptors????
Rock...this used to be team has not gone out and contined the effort made by Les Bartley to make a Rock a dominant force...they just expect the fans to show up as usual....aka Maple Leafs.

Beach_Red
01-19-2009, 06:06 PM
This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.


If they were good signings, no one would care at all.

ensco
01-19-2009, 06:07 PM
Re this draft:

For me, it is very hard to call Mo a genius at this point, as he very obviously reached for White, and just got lucky on Frei. (I'm not saying he's an idiot, I'm just pointing out the obvious.)

If nothing else, I would have been more impressed if Mo had traded down to number 7 or 8 and nabbed White there (although there's always the chance, if you make tht move, that someone else grabs him). But my main point is that Mo didn't really "outfox" anyone here - if Frei hadn't made it to 13, does everyone still think Mo's a genius?

mlsintoronto
01-19-2009, 07:49 PM
But my main point is that Mo didn't really "outfox" anyone here - if Frei hadn't made it to 13, does everyone still think Mo's a genius?

you all know how i feel about Mo what with the whole stapler thing...but seriously...the 13th pick would have been traded if someone of Frei's ability wasn't available at 13. I am not an assessor of talent but I know who Mo was after in the draft and Frei was on his top 5, so was Cronin and O'Brian, and Marcus Tracy. The other one went higher than 13. So he had options that were also good for TFC but he 'played' the draft properly, he definitely controlled the pace and flow of the night before (in the lobby bar as everyone was wheeling and dealing), and assessed the true value of the picks ... then he did what was best for Toronto FC.

I can be as critical as the next guy but in this isolated case I think he maneuvered the draft with great dexterity. Using the picks we had does not mean Mo didn't do his homework. After the 6th or 7th pick he knew Frei was going to drop and held onto the pick.

that is all.

Parkdale
01-19-2009, 07:58 PM
that is all.


are you banking overtime or what?

You should kick your feet up, or get that Lamport deal worked out.

mlsintoronto
01-19-2009, 08:04 PM
no deal happening a Lamport....however things are moving.

the politics behind this are broad but we're moving it along faster than we anticipated.

Parkdale
01-19-2009, 08:08 PM
so no denial that you're banking overtime?

I know that any forward momentum with the city is a positive thing. Well... it might ruin our night games.

Shakes McQueen
01-19-2009, 08:10 PM
no deal happening a Lamport....however things are moving.

the politics behind this are broad but we're moving it along faster than we anticipated.

Is this about potentially getting our club off the carpet, and onto grass? If so, then colour me excited.

- Scott

Cashcleaner
01-20-2009, 01:43 AM
no deal happening a Lamport....however things are moving.

the politics behind this are broad but we're moving it along faster than we anticipated.

That's good to hear.

Just a shot in the dark, but in addition to the city using it as a multi-use facility, will TFC possibly rent Lamport out as its practice ground as well?

ensco
01-20-2009, 08:30 AM
After the 6th or 7th pick he knew Frei was going to drop and held onto the pick.

that is all.

Hey Paul that is interesting, thanks. For the record, I run somewhere between "lukewarm" to "full support" on Mo. It's Carver I've had issues with!

My only small quibble is with the statement above. I think given the amount of misdirection practiced by all teams, all anyone can do is "guess" that a guy will still be there in 5 picks. For instance, the Alexandre pick by RSL at number 12, no one thought they would do that, and RSL took a lot of criticism on their boards for not trading that pick to someone who wanted Frei instead. If that had happened, I hear you, Mo would still have picked someone from his top 5. But I don't think the reaction from the fan base would be as favourable at this point.

that is all!

giambac
01-20-2009, 01:46 PM
for the first two seasons you couldn't have asked for more then what TFC gave...MLS is a very competitive league and you cant be a MLS in your fiest season, or even a playoff contender. If we finish this sason at .500
then that would be an improvement over last season and maybe get us into the playoffs. We are still another 2 season from being a dominant
club in MLS....patience is needed.


This is a joke Right:noidea:

giambac
01-20-2009, 01:50 PM
Backed Mo from the start...proud to say....Torontos desperate try for anykind of playoffs makes some fans lose focues... Champions are not made over night....not in the 2nd, 3rd years either.

No they aren't. However at the pace he is working at, we will still be waiting in year 10:mad:

giambac
01-20-2009, 01:55 PM
Mo Mo Mo!! Where to begin:


Any of you remember the innuendo from Mo last summer while we were in a playoff race that we might get grass from the sale of one of our best players to Glasgow Rangers? That worked out well.
Any of you ever watch an interview with Mo and see what a bang up job he is currently doing to sell this game and this team to a wider Toronto sports audience than the TFC faithful? Go back and read morgan Campbell's blog in the Star for a good example of his style
Andy Welsh, Colin Samuel, Oliver Teliby, Laurent Robert.....and the list goes on
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada. This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.
To me, Mo has been coasting on his reputation as having a good eye for NCAA talent. Yes he has done relatively well in that regard and deserves some credit for the job he has done, including this year. But that is not the only part of the job. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked about his management style, his inter-personal relationships in the Soccer world, his forthrightness and frankly his honesty. Have to say I am somewhat shocked that he has gotten such a ringinood postg endorsement from your group.
eaaly rrally g

GOOD post.
I mean good post.
I mean really good post.
I mean really really good post.
I guess there are some soccer smart people out there.

Like you said
NO Playoff team
No Canada Cup
No DP player
No grass in BMO feld
No international striker
No South American players
Arguably worst than last years expansion SJ team.

And people are happy:noidea:

Rudi
01-20-2009, 02:22 PM
This is a joke Right:noidea:
Do you even know the definition of competitive?

Hitcho
01-20-2009, 03:21 PM
giambac - do you have a season ticket? if so, why do you bother? all you ever seem to do is bash the team, bash the players, bash the staff and demand a championship package.

become a man utd "fan" instead mate, you'll be a lot happier in life (allegedly). :noidea:

Hitcho
01-20-2009, 03:24 PM
As for Mo, I am happy enough with him. He's a shrewd GM, at least in terms fo trades and drafts, and has brought in a top coach, a top fitness coach and a top GK coach to boot now. We've signed De Ro, there's supposedly a SA striker in the offing any moment now and we've got a good crop of young talent right through the side. If Mo brings in the SA striker and a decent CB to lead the line, I think it's fair to say he will have done everything we could really ask of him. And I also think the play offs will be a dead cert. I'd tip us as dark horses for the season in fact.

rocker
01-20-2009, 03:33 PM
giambac - do you have a season ticket? if so, why do you bother? all you ever seem to do is bash the team, bash the players, bash the staff and demand a championship package.

become a man utd "fan" instead mate, you'll be a lot happier in life (allegedly). :noidea:

funny thing with giambac (who's in my ignore list so I only notice him when people mention his name) is that he bought, voluntarily, tickets to the Canadian championship even though he was ranting about how crappy the championship was! hahaha.

Hitcho
01-20-2009, 03:37 PM
^ Hah! Maybe he's just a wind up merchant and comes on here for a laugh.

Looking forward to the Montreal game at BMO Field this season. Revenge is a dish best served cold...

Shakes McQueen
01-20-2009, 08:37 PM
Like you said
NO Playoff team
No Canada Cup
No DP player
No grass in BMO feld
No international striker
No South American players
Arguably worst than last years expansion SJ team.

And people are happy:noidea:

We have played TWO seasons, dude. TWO.

We HAVE an international, South American striker incoming shortly. We even apparently know his name now. MLSE IS working on getting grass, and apparently talks are going along faster than Paul B expected - as per HIS OWN WORDS.

We weren't arguably worse than San Jose, either. What is that based on exactly? We had a strong start, they had a strong finish, and we finished ahead of them in points.

The only major disappointment of last season, was not winning the Canadian Championship. This year we appear to have a much better, deeper team, and all you can do is continue to complain about everything. EVERYTHING.

I can't help but notice that every time there is a rash of good news around here, you tend to disappear for days or weeks. But every time a thread or piece of news comes up, that allows you the opportunity to bash the team, the management, or the players, you pop up on the radar again. You're the legal definition of internet troll.

- Scott

Cashcleaner
01-23-2009, 06:40 AM
Mo Mo Mo!! Where to begin:


Any of you remember the innuendo from Mo last summer while we were in a playoff race that we might get grass from the sale of one of our best players to Glasgow Rangers? That worked out well.
Any of you ever watch an interview with Mo and see what a bang up job he is currently doing to sell this game and this team to a wider Toronto sports audience than the TFC faithful? Go back and read morgan Campbell's blog in the Star for a good example of his style
Andy Welsh, Colin Samuel, Oliver Teliby, Laurent Robert.....and the list goes on
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada. This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.

To me, Mo has been coasting on his reputation as having a good eye for NCAA talent. Yes he has done relatively well in that regard and deserves some credit for the job he has done, including this year. But that is not the only part of the job. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked about his management style, his inter-personal relationships in the Soccer world, his forthrightness and frankly his honesty. Have to say I am somewhat shocked that he has gotten such a ringing endorsement from your group.

These are all fair points you've brought up and I agree with quite a bit of it. We all came pretty close to creaming our collective pants when the Edu deal was struck and the talk of grass began to circulate. In retrospect, given that the city and province still have to sign-off on any change to the playing surface at BMO, it was not really the wisest thing to encourage the speculation about grass at BMO Field.

Players like Welsh, Samuel, Teliby, Robert, and the others that failed to make and impression here in Toronto can be found playing with almost any club in the world, though. I would say we'd had an inordinate amount of dud players in our short history, but on the flip side it hasn't reached rediculous levels.

As for drafting, I'd also agree he's done fairly well for us and personally, I hope we can continue the trend of picking up younger players at a bargain and then developing them with the team over the course of a few years.

And for the last time, this group doesn't offer any endorsements towards Mo, Carver, or any other particular player or manager. We endorse Toronto FC and I think that's about as official as we'll get in that regard.

Stouffville_RPB
01-23-2009, 08:35 AM
It takes time to build a winner. With the restrictions Mo has he's done a great job. Think about all the differences between MLS and most other leagues. Salary Cap, roster limitations (international and non international, size) we're in Canada on turf not grass. On top of that who knows the restrictions MLSE has put on Mo's moves.

It's not easy to convince quality players to come and play in an inferior league, on grass for a lower wage. He's done a good job. I think Carver is a good coach and other members of the trainning staff have stepped up from year one. I'm not going to get on Mo's back yet.

Stryker
01-23-2009, 01:14 PM
Are you happy with Mo Johnsons performance?

Yeah but without the little blue pills it'd be nothing to write home about.

giambac
01-23-2009, 02:08 PM
We have played TWO seasons, dude. TWO.

We HAVE an international, South American striker incoming shortly. We even apparently know his name now. MLSE IS working on getting grass, and apparently talks are going along faster than Paul B expected - as per HIS OWN WORDS.

We weren't arguably worse than San Jose, either. What is that based on exactly? We had a strong start, they had a strong finish, and we finished ahead of them in points.

The only major disappointment of last season, was not winning the Canadian Championship. This year we appear to have a much better, deeper team, and all you can do is continue to complain about everything. EVERYTHING.

I can't help but notice that every time there is a rash of good news around here, you tend to disappear for days or weeks. But every time a thread or piece of news comes up, that allows you the opportunity to bash the team, the management, or the players, you pop up on the radar again. You're the legal definition of internet troll.

- Scott

We have an international striker? Who? did I miss something. And don't say Dichio.
We have a South American Striker? Who? when is going to be revealed in year 4, year 5?

We're getting grass and the palns are in the work? When? by year 6, 7 or 8?

San Jose finished off a lot stronger than TFC at the end of the season. By season end, at that specific time of year they SJ expansion we're a stronger side tahn TFC.

Mo did well to sign DeRo and he will help. Howver I disagree with extending his contarct to a 4 year. He will soon be 32 and I wouldn't be offering 4 year contracts to a 32 year old.

Mo has plenty of work to do. This team still has alot of holes. I know there is talk out there about getting a DP player, a strker from SA and a solid back. However, this hasn't happened yet and until it does Mo hasn't lived up to expectation.

CretanBull
01-23-2009, 02:13 PM
We're getting grass and the palns are in the work? When? by year 6, 7 or 8?

This has nothing to do with the club or management. They've done (and are doing) what they can do - the rest is in the hands of politicians.



San Jose finished off a lot stronger than TFC at the end of the season. By season end, at that specific time of year they SJ expansion we're a stronger side tahn TFC.


San Jose's strong finish was led by a player that Mo discovered.

Fort York Redcoat
01-23-2009, 02:14 PM
So far so good. I want to see the new guys play first but I loved Mo's direct answering of questions yesterday.

Jack
01-23-2009, 02:23 PM
Mo Mo Mo!! Where to begin:


Any of you remember the innuendo from Mo last summer while we were in a playoff race that we might get grass from the sale of one of our best players to Glasgow Rangers? That worked out well.
Any of you ever watch an interview with Mo and see what a bang up job he is currently doing to sell this game and this team to a wider Toronto sports audience than the TFC faithful? Go back and read morgan Campbell's blog in the Star for a good example of his style
Andy Welsh, Colin Samuel, Oliver Teliby, Laurent Robert.....and the list goes on
Any of you aware that a disproportionate number of the signings of TFC players have come from the ranks of the Agent (Barry MacLean I believe) that is also Mo's agent? This kind of potential conflict of interest is looked down upon across the pond and hardly gets any response in Canada. This is like Brian Burke only signing free agents represented by his personal agent...it would create a firestorm in Leaf Nation or in the press at least.

To me, Mo has been coasting on his reputation as having a good eye for NCAA talent. Yes he has done relatively well in that regard and deserves some credit for the job he has done, including this year. But that is not the only part of the job. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked about his management style, his inter-personal relationships in the Soccer world, his forthrightness and frankly his honesty. Have to say I am somewhat shocked that he has gotten such a ringing endorsement from your group.

The grass may materialize yet, Newf. It seems that negotiations are ongoing. My personal prediction is next season we will see grass at BMO Field and a bubble at Lamport Stadium.

As for the players you listed, they didn't work out. It happens all the time in football on all kinds of different teams. As an expansion team and a little-known team, you try to sign players who look like they'll do the job. The positive side of that coin is, once it was evident that they were shit, they were out the door in a hurry (well...Samuel took a while, but the others were gone quickly).

To your final point, the poll is on the open section of our message board. Not a ringing endorsement from the Red Patch Boys membership, but a ringing endorsement from the users on our message board, which is quite different. RPB Members group has about 500, the board has 2600-odd members and 1300-odd active members. So not exactly the same thing there.

jloome
01-23-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm not sold on Mo because all too often he comes across as disingenous or duplicitous, and has right back to his alleged "miscommunication" with Celtic, when he went to Rangers.

Equally, however, it's too early to write him off. He has obvious strengths in trading and drafting, obvious weaknesses with respect to signing new players. Tactically, he was a nightmare, so thank God for Carver.

This is the break-out season; if we have more goal scoring woes or need Marco Velez to be a starting centre back again (he's a fine bench fill-in but not a starter) then I figure he's proven over three years that he can't get the job done.

But the mere facts that he's signed Robbo and DeRo to long-term deals suggests his structural plan is working well. The grass pitch was pretty much never expected to be in BMO, but in an adjacent training facility, which we still might get.

So, it's 50/50 for me right now, or even 60/40 in Mo's favour. It's a pivotal year.

Jack
01-23-2009, 04:59 PM
I'm not sold on Mo because all too often he comes across as disingenous or duplicitous, and has right back to his alleged "miscommunication" with Celtic, when he went to Rangers.

Equally, however, it's too early to write him off. He has obvious strengths in trading and drafting, obvious weaknesses with respect to signing new players. Tactically, he was a nightmare, so thank God for Carver.

This is the break-out season; if we have more goal scoring woes or need Marco Velez to be a starting centre back again (he's a fine bench fill-in but not a starter) then I figure he's proven over three years that he can't get the job done.

But the mere facts that he's signed Robbo and DeRo to long-term deals suggests his structural plan is working well. The grass pitch was pretty much never expected to be in BMO, but in an adjacent training facility, which we still might get.

So, it's 50/50 for me right now, or even 60/40 in Mo's favour. It's a pivotal year.
Watch for it. Next season or the one after that at the latest.

The negotiations are already underway as per the business manager of TFC. If he's willing to say that much on the message board and to also say they are moving quicker than he expected, then I'd say it's a good bet to expect there will be grass at BMO Field sooner rather than later.

Plenty of Trout
01-23-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm not sold on Mo because all too often he comes across as disingenous or duplicitous, and has right back to his alleged "miscommunication" with Celtic, when he went to Rangers.

Equally, however, it's too early to write him off. He has obvious strengths in trading and drafting, obvious weaknesses with respect to signing new players. Tactically, he was a nightmare, so thank God for Carver.

This is the break-out season; if we have more goal scoring woes or need Marco Velez to be a starting centre back again (he's a fine bench fill-in but not a starter) then I figure he's proven over three years that he can't get the job done.

But the mere facts that he's signed Robbo and DeRo to long-term deals suggests his structural plan is working well. The grass pitch was pretty much never expected to be in BMO, but in an adjacent training facility, which we still might get.

So, it's 50/50 for me right now, or even 60/40 in Mo's favour. It's a pivotal year.


It's a coin flip for me as well.

TFC USA
06-04-2009, 07:39 PM
I think this will go down as a "no".

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-04-2009, 09:47 PM
[/u][/b]

No they aren't. However at the pace he is working at, we will still be waiting in year 10:mad:

if i could change my vote i would to say not really if it were an option.
He has drafted well and brought in players the fans wanted..but cant'seem to land the striker we badly need, in season..With the cap
its hard, but a good manager would make some in season deal when the
team really needs it....we have trade bait with Sutton and Edwards, some team must need a keeper? but this year is not done and we still might
have a successful season, mls, canada cup ( no i have not given up on that yet) !! go reds.

Jack
06-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Guys, thread is very old and there's another thread on Mo already near the top.