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jloome
08-21-2008, 03:55 PM
About a month ago, John Carver made an interesting statement. He said he had a theory as to why Toronto seems to get such a raw referee deal at BMO but indicated he'd get in trouble if he brought it up.

I think he was talking about the crowds. Last night's Canada game was the kicker. Despite their obviously stronger talent -- including two of the fastest young holding mids in Europe -- they were outcalled, by my count, 28 to 15. That's a nearly two-to-one foul ratio.

That certainly didn't reflect the play, and it was obvious to all that the ref made some egregious calls against but also let some equally egregious ones by Jamaica go.

Familiar story: a loud, full house at BMO, and all of a sudden, the ref starts overcompensating. I'm sure that's what it is, because even in bad road games, where we ARE worst than our opponent, the foul counts are substantially closer than they ever seem at BMO.

We're getting jobbed because TFC fans make BMO loud and intimidating. It's the only thing that makes sense, and I think it's what Carver-- who has seen the same thing happen with officials in England -- was reacting to.

invictusTFC
08-21-2008, 03:57 PM
We did get away with a deliberate handball which would've resulted in a sending off for a second bookable offense.

NF-FC
08-21-2008, 03:59 PM
and it's not like this is a new problem, we've been getting screwed forever. CONCACAF ref's dont like the way we play football. they think we play to rough and penalize us for being physical

London
08-21-2008, 04:00 PM
i cant imagine that we are the most intimidating thing these refs have seen, they probably have worked in central and south america

jloome
08-21-2008, 04:04 PM
And yet the stats suggest we don't get a fair shake at home. Plus, didn't we recently have a case where the ref refused to leave the property for three hours? That speaks to the level of paranoia among refs in this region about calling the game "rightly or wrongly." I think they're taking "toughness" stands in front of the home crowd.

Can anyone honestly tellme that a professional review of last night's officiating wouldn't demonstrate it to be a debacle (the handball aside)?

Shaughno
08-21-2008, 04:13 PM
I haven't seen a replay of the game yet, but it sure wasn't 'good' officiating by any means.

mclaren
08-21-2008, 04:18 PM
I do agree that on the road we seem to get a fairer deal. In fact, refs seem to overcompensate for the fact we're the away team.

Shaughno
08-21-2008, 04:19 PM
^^ Maybe it's just that the ref's generally screw over the home MLS team? I know a lot of other fans have complained about the same issues.

Beach_Red
08-21-2008, 04:20 PM
There's a theory that refs subconsciously try to make games "even" between the teams - mistaking that for not taking sides. It happens in pretty much every sport.

AL-MO
08-21-2008, 04:23 PM
Jamaica's diving around didn't help things.

Shaughno
08-21-2008, 04:26 PM
^^ It was pretty bad, but I've seen plenty worse.

Red Skies At Night
08-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Last night I thought I saw the ref allow a Jam player to play the ball with his foot while his shoe was off... did I imagine that?

And is that not against the rules because I'm pretty sure I recall wayne rooney getting booked for such a thing in the EC2004 q/f against portugal?

If I am correct then I have to question the ref's ability or attitude...

(If I'm wrong - what else is new)

AL-MO
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
^^ It was pretty bad, but I've seen plenty worse.

No doubt.

Flipityflu
08-21-2008, 04:35 PM
i've made that suggestion myself when i reported that the ref for the FC Dallas game was heckled before the game began. we all know what happened next...

Toronto_Bhoy
08-21-2008, 04:39 PM
The notion of the BMO crowd influencing or intimidating officiating has been mentioned on this board on numerous occasions and personally, I think its ridiculous. What? The ref is scared he's gonna get hit by a streamer or pint of beer? Quite frankly, its far more dangerous refereeing a Sunday morning league.

The level of refereeing in North America is just poor…period. It’s the weakest link in professional football in this region of the world. And as poor as it was last night, it had little bearing on the result. As far as TFC goes, if we could convert our chances refs would be less of an issue…we’d be winning games and the officiating would still be shit! Hell, when we do get penalties we still can’t score!

Please read signature below!!!

Maple Leaf Red
08-21-2008, 04:40 PM
jloome - I think your bang on with your point. My dad and I have talked about it before. I feel like the refs are afraid that the players will get too amped up by the crowd and will get out of control.

I can't believe that a ref wouldn't leave for three hours. I've joked that the ref needs to find a mob outside of gate four before but it's freaking Canada! No one would do anything.

Flipityflu
08-21-2008, 04:40 PM
i don't think the ref of the FC Dallas game was scared, i think he was pissed off :)

Ageroo
08-21-2008, 04:45 PM
I haven't seen a replay of the game yet, but it sure wasn't 'good' officiating by any means.

I watched the reply when I got home last night and Forrest was pissed at the officiating.......

ag futbol
08-21-2008, 05:30 PM
You simply can't compare an MLS ref to a concacaf ref.

The concacaf guy is simply a corrupt bastard.

The MLS guy doesn't know what he's doing.

Toronto_Bhoy
08-21-2008, 05:32 PM
^^Yea…Forrest is ALWAYS critical of the officiating…funny I don't remember him being that kind of player [mouthy I mean] but he was a pretty good goalkeeper…

Toronto_Bhoy
08-21-2008, 05:34 PM
You simply can't compare an MLS ref to a concacaf ref.

The concacaf guy is simply a corrupt bastard.

The MLS guy doesn't know what he's doing.

I think those two statements pretty much cover referees in every sport, in every country!:lol:

jloome
08-21-2008, 06:21 PM
I think those two statements pretty much cover referees in every sport, in every country!:lol:

I don't disagree with you for the most part Tbhoy, but I also don't think it's solely because of fear. That might sometimes be an issue; but the larger issue is I think they don't want to be seen as kowtowing to a boystrous crowd, and they go overboard in proving it.

Chevy
08-21-2008, 06:28 PM
and it's not like this is a new problem, we've been getting screwed forever. CONCACAF ref's dont like the way we play football. they think we play to rough and penalize us for being physical


Want to remove the referee's influence when you're playing a shit opponent @ home?

Get up 3 fucking nil at the half! That will end the discussion!

Jmonkey
08-21-2008, 06:35 PM
Want to remove the referee's influence when you're playing a shit opponent @ home?

Get up 3 fucking nil at the half! That will end the discussion!


Hard to do when the Referee is calling a one sided game....

Chevy
08-21-2008, 06:54 PM
By most accounts the referee called a relatively even game. The referre had very little to do with the outcome. We could have (or should have) had two of our players sent off with reds. Who is complaining about that? Nobody.

What i'm trying to say is that we are more concerned with the referee's not liking us than the opponent on the friggin field. Go out there and just win, rather than assuming that the referees will screw us. Fucking excuses!

Sorry for the rant, but i'm just a little tired of hearing a lot of folks on this board whine about the referee, when we had home field advantage, and a far superior team.

jloome
08-21-2008, 07:00 PM
By most accounts the referee called a relatively even game. The referre had very little to do with the outcome. We could have (or should have) had two of our players sent off with reds. Who is complaining about that? Nobody.

What i'm trying to say is that we are more concerned with the referee's not liking us than the opponent on the friggin field. Go out there and just win, rather than assuming that the referees will screw us. Fucking excuses!

Sorry for the rant, but i'm just a little tired of hearing a lot of folks on this board whine about the referee, when we had home field advantage, and a far superior team.

"Most accounts?" Ok, show me two. Because I haven t' seen a single lengthy conversation on any board yet that suggested the refereeing last night was fair. In fact, I think yours is the first I've seen!

You're off your nut if you think that was even-handed. Even Forrest, who is even-handed as a commentator to a fault (by most tv commentator standards) was incredulous at what wasn't getting called against Jamaica versus what was against Canada.

Chevy
08-21-2008, 07:09 PM
"Most accounts?" Ok, show me two. Because I haven t' seen a single lengthy conversation on any board yet that suggested the refereeing last night was fair. In fact, I think yours is the first I've seen!

You're off your nut if you think that was even-handed. Even Forrest, who is even-handed as a commentator to a fault (by most tv commentator standards) was incredulous at what wasn't getting called against Jamaica versus what was against Canada.


OK, put the shoe on the other foot. If it were the Jamaicans that could/should have had not one but TWO men sent off for handballs, would we be complaining today? Yes, there would be a friggin riot on these boards!

What I'm saying is that you can easily make the case as a Jamaican fan that the refs screwed them out of 3pts on the road. Same exact argument, just from the other point of view.

As for intimidating the refferee into calling a match in favour of the visiting team? BMO is fantastic but on a CONCACAF level it is very tame.

Back to my original point - Just win. Period.

rocker
08-21-2008, 07:38 PM
the jamaicans were light on their feet, that's for sure. I yelled "Jamaicans go down easy!" at one point and some of their fans gave me the evil eye. hahah.
but a couple times canadians could have easily gone down but they stayed on their feet.

jloome
08-21-2008, 08:28 PM
OK, put the shoe on the other foot. If it were the Jamaicans that could/should have had not one but TWO men sent off for handballs, would we be complaining today? Yes, there would be a friggin riot on these boards!

What I'm saying is that you can easily make the case as a Jamaican fan that the refs screwed them out of 3pts on the road. Same exact argument, just from the other point of view.

As for intimidating the refferee into calling a match in favour of the visiting team? BMO is fantastic but on a CONCACAF level it is very tame.

Back to my original point - Just win. Period.

Look, this isn't a biased ideological argument so there is no shoe to put on the other foot: I agree Canada could've had a red card (to Jason Bent); I don't believe half the refs on teh planet would've called the other, as it was ball to hand off the player's shoulder. And Bent's was 10 yards ahead of the box (albeit deliberate, so he should've at least had a yellow and I think he was already on one.)

But a 30-yard free kick and going a man down hardly amount to the Jamaicans being able to argue they were cheated. On the other hand, the supposition that a team being called TWO to ONE in fouls still stands out as really bad officiating. By all means, check football stats on Football365.com from any of last weekend's games in England and if you can find me two where there was such a huge discrepancy I'll be very surprised.

That ISN'T debatable, and thus is the issue at hand.

Oblio2
08-21-2008, 08:36 PM
About a month ago, John Carver made an interesting statement. He said he had a theory as to why Toronto seems to get such a raw referee deal at BMO but indicated he'd get in trouble if he brought it up.

I think he was talking about the crowds. Last night's Canada game was the kicker. Despite their obviously stronger talent -- including two of the fastest young holding mids in Europe -- they were outcalled, by my count, 28 to 15. That's a nearly two-to-one foul ratio.

That certainly didn't reflect the play, and it was obvious to all that the ref made some egregious calls against but also let some equally egregious ones by Jamaica go.

Familiar story: a loud, full house at BMO, and all of a sudden, the ref starts overcompensating. I'm sure that's what it is, because even in bad road games, where we ARE worst than our opponent, the foul counts are substantially closer than they ever seem at BMO.

We're getting jobbed because TFC fans make BMO loud and intimidating. It's the only thing that makes sense, and I think it's what Carver-- who has seen the same thing happen with officials in England -- was reacting to.

I made reference to this about 2 months ago, saying that cat calling the Ref makes them more defensive and we'll get calls against us...which happens...I got fucking torn apart in that post!

Oblio2
08-21-2008, 08:37 PM
Last night I thought I saw the ref allow a Jam player to play the ball with his foot while his shoe was off... did I imagine that?

And is that not against the rules because I'm pretty sure I recall wayne rooney getting booked for such a thing in the EC2004 q/f against portugal?

If I am correct then I have to question the ref's ability or attitude...

(If I'm wrong - what else is new)

nope, you are incorrect

OneLoveOneEric
08-21-2008, 08:46 PM
This thread is a crazy idea. In every other circumstance, vocal home support causes the ref to cal things in favour of the home team. This is a constant criticism of big European venues, like Old Trafford, the Nou Camp, etc. The ref is intimidated by the home crowd and calls in their favour, won't call penalties for the opposition, etc. I'm supposed to believe that the BMO is some sort of bizarro world where the opposite occurs?
No way.

CoachGT
08-21-2008, 08:48 PM
There's merit to the comment that the home team always seems to get screwed over by the refs - last year I thought that during a game in Columbus. But home teams still seem to find a way to win - only two or three teams in MLS have better road records than Toronto (if you can believe it!).

Personally, I've found that the more a coach (and fans) yell, the more likely calls will go against them. For most referees, if both teams are unhappy, then they've probably done a good job (in their minds). I generally don't make comments to referees during games when I'm coaching, except maybe once or twice a game. In those instances, I've found I've got the benefit many times - the refs know I don't yell and seem to give me a break. And on bad calls, I explain to the players that life isn't always fair, and sometimes shit happens. I've never seen a ref reverse a bad call - I'd keel over if they did. And the league has to support the refs - a decision on the field is final! Even if it is wrong (see the TFC game in Chicago as proof)!

I've wondered what might happen at TFC games if the crowd just forgot about the ref. My guess is that the guys from the Dallas game have now told their side of the story to every other ref on their message boards (oh yeah - the refs have them and use them!) and that may only get the next officiating team's backs up even before they get here. And that story will travel through everywhere, including to the CONCACAF refs!

OneLoveOneEric
08-21-2008, 08:51 PM
I still don't understand where people have gotten the idea that ref's are AGAINST home teams. Home teams usually win. Read any articles during a Premiership season -- every coach that visits Old Trafford, Anfield, or even Stamford Bridge and loses will blame some call on the fact that the home support intimidated the ref in to bottling one call or another. The thought that some refs are overcompensating for this is absurd. Or, MLS and CONCACAF have the most sensitive referees in the world.....

Chevy
08-21-2008, 08:51 PM
But a 30-yard free kick and going a man down hardly amount to the Jamaicans being able to argue they were cheated. On the other hand, the supposition that a team being called TWO to ONE in fouls still stands out as really bad officiating. By all means, check football stats on Football365.com from any of last weekend's games in England and if you can find me two where there was such a huge discrepancy I'll be very surprised.

That ISN'T debatable, and thus is the issue at hand.[/quote]

-------------------------------
Comparing two EPL teams and the fouls they commit isn't completely valid - in geneal most play similar styles and therefore you would expect similar foul levels.

Canada and Jamaica 's styles are very contrasting - physical vs. not. You would and should logically expect Canada to generate more fouls in a game with a physically weaker opponent. Jamaica is also an inferior opponent (you would think!) and the inferior opponent has to look for other ways to make up the gap (diving, wasting time, etc...). Again, no surprise at the call differential.

The issue of poor officiating was never debatable (everyone agrees it was marginal). The issue that is at hand is that it impacted both teams and in the end didn't cost us 3 points.

kitchener-TFC
08-21-2008, 11:25 PM
How many times was the "bullshit" chant used last night? 3 times?
The officiating was terrible yesterday!

jabbronies
08-21-2008, 11:31 PM
If the refs are reacting to the crowds, then we have bigger problems for the sport in this country.

They should be reactiing to the players on the field, that's their job, not worrying about elements not related to the game itself.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-21-2008, 11:51 PM
About a month ago, John Carver made an interesting statement. He said he had a theory as to why Toronto seems to get such a raw referee deal at BMO but indicated he'd get in trouble if he brought it up.

I think he was talking about the crowds. Last night's Canada game was the kicker. Despite their obviously stronger talent -- including two of the fastest young holding mids in Europe -- they were outcalled, by my count, 28 to 15. That's a nearly two-to-one foul ratio.

That certainly didn't reflect the play, and it was obvious to all that the ref made some egregious calls against but also let some equally egregious ones by Jamaica go.

Familiar story: a loud, full house at BMO, and all of a sudden, the ref starts overcompensating. I'm sure that's what it is, because even in bad road games, where we ARE worst than our opponent, the foul counts are substantially closer than they ever seem at BMO.

We're getting jobbed because TFC fans make BMO loud and intimidating. It's the only thing that makes sense, and I think it's what Carver-- who has seen the same thing happen with officials in England -- was reacting to.
That's gotta be it, to be honest I felt that last year they were doing the same sort of thing except in our favour, a few opposing players got straight reds for what were probably yellow card offenses...

And yes, the officiating last night was brutal. But hey, we're Canada, and this is CONCACAF...

Dub Narcotic
08-22-2008, 12:02 AM
"Most accounts?" Ok, show me two. Because I haven t' seen a single lengthy conversation on any board yet that suggested the refereeing last night was fair. In fact, I think yours is the first I've seen!

You're off your nut if you think that was even-handed. Even Forrest, who is even-handed as a commentator to a fault (by most tv commentator standards) was incredulous at what wasn't getting called against Jamaica versus what was against Canada.

I thought he wasn't bad. He gave a few calls to Jamiaca but he let some stuff go as well. Also, if he would have called it straight, he should have sent off De Rosario and Serioux for deliberate handballs, as was mentioned by someone else. The Serioux non-call was a huge letoff for Canada, not to mention the wrong decision, because Serioux stopped a possible attacking chance with his handball.

jloome
08-22-2008, 12:03 AM
This thread is a crazy idea. In every other circumstance, vocal home support causes the ref to cal things in favour of the home team. This is a constant criticism of big European venues, like Old Trafford, the Nou Camp, etc. The ref is intimidated by the home crowd and calls in their favour, won't call penalties for the opposition, etc. I'm supposed to believe that the BMO is some sort of bizarro world where the opposite occurs?
No way.

Dude, you obviously haven't been watching CONCACAF refs for long. They are, bar none, waaay tighter on calls than in Europe. So no, I don't think it's a stretch for them to overcompensate with the homeside to show how fair they are.

The opposite is true in England, it's believed, because refs fear the reaction of the home fans more, one of the reasons why the premier league stopped releasing the ref's hometown -- to cut down on bias perceptions.




There's merit to the comment that the home team always seems to get screwed over by the refs - last year I thought that during a game in Columbus. But home teams still seem to find a way to win - only two or three teams in MLS have better road records than Toronto (if you can believe it!).

Personally, I've found that the more a coach (and fans) yell, the more likely calls will go against them. For most referees, if both teams are unhappy, then they've probably done a good job (in their minds). I generally don't make comments to referees during games when I'm coaching, except maybe once or twice a game. In those instances, I've found I've got the benefit many times - the refs know I don't yell and seem to give me a break. And on bad calls, I explain to the players that life isn't always fair, and sometimes shit happens. I've never seen a ref reverse a bad call - I'd keel over if they did. And the league has to support the refs - a decision on the field is final! Even if it is wrong (see the TFC game in Chicago as proof)!

I've wondered what might happen at TFC games if the crowd just forgot about the ref. My guess is that the guys from the Dallas game have now told their side of the story to every other ref on their message boards (oh yeah - the refs have them and use them!) and that may only get the next officiating team's backs up even before they get here. And that story will travel through everywhere, including to the CONCACAF refs!

And that's another factor: as much as fans assume refs play favourites to one team or another, I don't think there's any doubting a team can develop an unwarranted rep as easily as an individual player. How many times last year did we see Danny D get called when he was two feet away from teh guy, just because he had a hard man rep coming in?


But a 30-yard free kick and going a man down hardly amount to the Jamaicans being able to argue they were cheated. On the other hand, the supposition that a team being called TWO to ONE in fouls still stands out as really bad officiating. By all means, check football stats on Football365.com from any of last weekend's games in England and if you can find me two where there was such a huge discrepancy I'll be very surprised.

That ISN'T debatable, and thus is the issue at hand.
-------------------------------
Comparing two EPL teams and the fouls they commit isn't completely valid - in geneal most play similar styles and therefore you would expect similar foul levels.

Canada and Jamaica 's styles are very contrasting - physical vs. not. You would and should logically expect Canada to generate more fouls in a game with a physically weaker opponent. Jamaica is also an inferior opponent (you would think!) and the inferior opponent has to look for other ways to make up the gap (diving, wasting time, etc...). Again, no surprise at the call differential.

The issue of poor officiating was never debatable (everyone agrees it was marginal). The issue that is at hand is that it impacted both teams and in the end didn't cost us 3 points.

True, I suppose, and some good points. But the problem is that while the argument is sound, it doesn't match up with what I saw on the pitch.


If the refs are reacting to the crowds, then we have bigger problems for the sport in this country.

They should be reactiing to the players on the field, that's their job, not worrying about elements not related to the game itself.


Again, this is CONCACAF, and every league has one of two officials who seem to lose their cool infront of a rabid crowd. This wouldn't surprise me at all.


I still don't understand where people have gotten the idea that ref's are AGAINST home teams. Home teams usually win. Read any articles during a Premiership season -- every coach that visits Old Trafford, Anfield, or even Stamford Bridge and loses will blame some call on the fact that the home support intimidated the ref in to bottling one call or another. The thought that some refs are overcompensating for this is absurd. Or, MLS and CONCACAF have the most sensitive referees in the world.....

MLS and CONCACAF do have the most sensitive referees in the world. MLS has had a reputation as pussy football to the rest of the planet for quite awhile because of it, even though it's obvious watching the debacle that is MLS refereeing week in and out that the players hate it as much as we do. Again, I suppose the "incremental gains" position is to recognize that as the league gets bigger, the training and compensation for officials will make it a proper career and the quality will improve.

stretchthetruth
08-22-2008, 01:10 AM
i actually thought the non-calls on the handballs were good calls... the DeRo one was ball to hand, and the Serioux one was while he was being fouled by the jamaican player... as for MLS refs, i always think about the free kick given against julius james in Salt Lake when he was a full 5 feet away from the guy, who promptly tripped and fell over the ball - both players laughed at the call...

James17930
08-22-2008, 01:42 AM
Look, this isn't a biased ideological argument so there is no shoe to put on the other foot: I agree Canada could've had a red card (to Jason Bent); I don't believe half the refs on teh planet would've called the other, as it was ball to hand off the player's shoulder. And Bent's was 10 yards ahead of the box (albeit deliberate, so he should've at least had a yellow and I think he was already on one.)



Really? The gave him the night off from the Academy? :rolleyes:

nfitz
08-22-2008, 02:30 AM
The reffing certainly wasn't good - falling for Jamaican, and as the game progressed even Canadian diving. And there was certainly delay of game with those Jamaican "injuries", and the final substitution (and why there wasn't some extra injury time because of that I don't know).

But it didn't seem to particularly favour one side or the other. It didn't cost us the game. Onstad's own-goal and Canada's failure to put it in the net cost us the game. And some credit should go to the Jamaican keeper - I'm amazed he doesn't currently have a contract - someone should grab him!

CretanBull
08-22-2008, 03:24 AM
Canada has been getting screwed in CONCACAF longer than the MLS has been around...on the Footy Show podcast a few weeks ago, they did a count down of the top 10 bad calls against Canada. Some of them I remember, some were before my time, and some were from games that weren't televised, but all of them (as they were explained anyway) were beyond absurd - hard to believe that anyone of them were called. Realizing that all of them had been called - and all called against us - was mind blowing.

I doubt that there's any other country in the world that has had so many decisive bad calls against them in critical games. CONCACAF refs reward divers and punish physical play...which means we start any CONCACAF game at a disadvantage.

Heathen
08-22-2008, 08:31 AM
ARAB FTO :canada:

CoachGT
08-22-2008, 08:39 AM
Canada has been getting screwed in CONCACAF longer than the MLS has been around...on the Footy Show podcast a few weeks ago, they did a count down of the top 10 bad calls against Canada. Some of them I remember, some were before my time, and some were from games that weren't televised, but all of them (as they were explained anyway) were beyond absurd - hard to believe that anyone of them were called. Realizing that all of them had been called - and all called against us - was mind blowing.

I doubt that there's any other country in the world that has had so many decisive bad calls against them in critical games. CONCACAF refs reward divers and punish physical play...which means we start any CONCACAF game at a disadvantage.


It's easy to make calls against a team if the refs believe there will be no backlash, outcry or comment whatsoever. This may be th signal to the refs that things are changing in Canada. The next step is, can the CSA stand up and make a comment, or better yet, do something about it?

giambac
08-22-2008, 08:43 AM
About a month ago, John Carver made an interesting statement. He said he had a theory as to why Toronto seems to get such a raw referee deal at BMO but indicated he'd get in trouble if he brought it up.

I think he was talking about the crowds. Last night's Canada game was the kicker. Despite their obviously stronger talent -- including two of the fastest young holding mids in Europe -- they were outcalled, by my count, 28 to 15. That's a nearly two-to-one foul ratio.

That certainly didn't reflect the play, and it was obvious to all that the ref made some egregious calls against but also let some equally egregious ones by Jamaica go.

Familiar story: a loud, full house at BMO, and all of a sudden, the ref starts overcompensating. I'm sure that's what it is, because even in bad road games, where we ARE worst than our opponent, the foul counts are substantially closer than they ever seem at BMO.

We're getting jobbed because TFC fans make BMO loud and intimidating. It's the only thing that makes sense, and I think it's what Carver-- who has seen the same thing happen with officials in England -- was reacting to.

I have to laugh at your comments. The more threads you post the less convinced I'm that you are a writer. Your comments seem so absurd and clueless.

The refs gives us bad breaks beacuse of our home crowd?? Wake up.

Whta game we're you watching? The ref gave team Canada several favourable calls when he didn't call at least 2 deliberate hand balls by Canadian players.
If anything the ref feels intimidated by the home crowd and doesn't give the opposing team any favourable calls.

Take up another sport with your off the wall analysis.

giambac
08-22-2008, 08:46 AM
I do agree that on the road we seem to get a fairer deal. In fact, refs seem to overcompensate for the fact we're the away team.


The reason why is that when we play on the road none of our players show up. They don't play aggressive football and don't chase down players which results in fewer tackles and fouls. Our road record shows how lacklustre we play on the road. It has nothing to do with the officials on the road vs at home.

koryo
08-22-2008, 08:50 AM
It's easy to make calls against a team if the refs believe there will be no backlash, outcry or comment whatsoever. This may be th signal to the refs that things are changing in Canada. The next step is, can the CSA stand up and make a comment, or better yet, do something about it?

When it comes to this issue (and CretanBull's point), I firmly believe - and no I have no proof of it - that Jack Warner has his dirty little fingers in how CONCACAF refs carry on.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-22-2008, 09:03 AM
When it comes to this issue (and CretanBull's point), I firmly believe - and no I have no proof of it - that Jack Warner has his dirty little fingers in how CONCACAF refs carry on.
I remember a few years back he publicly criticized Canada's manager for something or other, and said that he was positive that his native Trinidad and Tobago would crush us. I can't remember the details (maybe someone else can elaborate), but he's obviously corrupt in how he runs the confederation, not to mention clueless, and there's no doubt he hates Canada as well.

rviewmirror
08-22-2008, 09:17 AM
That and the refs hate all the referee's a wanker chant......they're human and sometimes might get under their skin and give the otherside a call or two.... I hate those chants.

invictusTFC
08-22-2008, 09:21 AM
There is a few things that I will agree with in this thread:
1) CONCACAF refs are shit, and well behind European officials in terms of ability and professionalism
2) Canada has had their fair share of bad calls going against them in their past

However, it's quite a stretch to insinuate that this is an orchestrated effort by officials and or CONCACAF against Canada or Canadian teams. MLS and CONCACAF officials are shit because they lack the professional development and infrastructure that European officials have. In the top countries in Europe, refereeing is a profession like any other. In North America, officiating is a part-time venture. How can you expect officiating to be professional if the League is barely professional in comparison to Europe and other parts of the globe. Professional soccer is still relatively new to North America.

D_Sertl
08-22-2008, 10:18 AM
and it's not like this is a new problem, we've been getting screwed forever. CONCACAF ref's dont like the way we play football. they think we play to rough and penalize us for being physical

This just about sums up how I feel

druid
08-22-2008, 11:09 AM
In the end football is about money.

A great deal of referee bias runs, coincidently i'm sure, in the direction of the team with the greater viewing audience.

Having Mexico and the US in the final will always draw the largest TV viewership/add revenue so Canada will always suffer the small calls, more yellow cards, offside goals, etc.

It will be the same thing in the MLS, though they might favor various teams to build markets as well as exploit them.

If you want to change the referees behavior about the only thing that will work is accusing them of taking money (won't stick with no proof) or accuse them of some kind of cultural bias: racist, religious, etc. Accusations of cultural bias can be damning and tend to sting even without evidence. Its also easy for the press to start picking up the thread, even if its only to deny it. Pretty soon someone from MLS has to deny it and then they have to make sure the game is called fair.

Since we're the only Canadian team in the league (for now) a rousing chant of:

Who's the Yankee in Yellow?

After every bad call is about the only chance of supporters changing the behavior of MLS refs at BMO field. It would take time, but its more likely to have an effect.

dannyd
08-22-2008, 11:30 AM
Concacaf refs are used to much more intimidating venues than BMO, sorry but it's true. You don't see the same bias watching Mexico v. Honduras because both teams play the same dirty game.

Unfortunately, my conclusion is that concacaf refs just suck in general and over the years teams have learned that you have to dive and play the referee in order to win games, as we're finding out.

NateDoGG
08-22-2008, 12:33 PM
oh god, john "blame it on the refs" carver.............................

Richard D
08-22-2008, 04:00 PM
If our teams scored more, the refs could keep doing a great job. But since we dont, those fuckers are costing us games...

lol

bangersandmash
08-22-2008, 04:09 PM
There was a thread here about "making your own luck." If the ref decides the game, you probably didn't deserve to win. As Richard D says, more goals. It's the only way forward. Even if we have to play 5 strikers (as Giambac suggersted in another thread).

jloome
08-22-2008, 05:03 PM
Really? The gave him the night off from the Academy? :rolleyes:

Whoops! It's the hair, I meant serioux, of course.