What makes a great DM?

[trane]

This relates to Robo, whome I like as a DM. But in reading the posts I am not sure what people want in a DM. So I am wondering, in order to get a good rating on him, what people think are the attributes of a DM, and some exaples of great players at that position.

For me to put it simply, I want someone who is defensively responsible, who follows the play well, makes solid stops, kills offensive plays before they become dangerous, and is always aware. I would also like him to be able to make safe and inteligent passess out of his own end, I do not need him to be an attacking star, but I would like him to be able to initiate the attack intteligently, for example to pass the ball to the player with the best attacking opportunity and least precarious position ( in terms of losing the ball). The cardinal sin for me is losing the ball in ones own end, or giving up the ball by a bad pass.

I think that while Robo has many of the attribtues, is also sometimes guilty of some faults. However, things like a good shot, just do not enter the picture for me when it comes to the position. For my money, Gattuso and Sena are two of the top DMs. Other then Joseph no other DM in the MLS has caught my attention.

[jloome]

Well, Gattuso has a pretty good shot!

But beyond that, your description sounds fairly apt. I'd add, however, that a DM should still be able to split a defense with a good long pass, so it's not just short passing.

A good dm needs really good field vision and positioning, becuase they have to be among the first lines of defence, shaking up the opposing team's offensive shape before it's established in an opposing end. For all his (quite exceptional) one-on-one play, Robbo doesn't control the flow of the play, ala Shalrie Jospeh (or perhaps more accurately, ala Javier Mascherano or Roy Keane).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For me, they have to stop the other teams mid (even strikers) defensively and distribute the ball with great finesse. Thats a pretty simple explanation so im sure ill remember something later on

[trane]

^ Agree short passing all the time would make the offense to predictable. Shooting is a positive, just not an essential for my money, beyong the fact it shuold be a basic skill for any player. Masherano and Keane are two good examples.

[ag futbol]

I like your description.

One other thing I'd add is that some guys have different styles. There's the Gattuso style battering ram who is going to chase down and destroy, but there is also guys out there who are not as physical but mark players effectively without conceeding too many fouls.

I have no preference for either style, but both can be effective imo.

[druid]

I think there's also some debate these days about whether a holding midfielder is the same as a defensive midfielder.

Its not often that you get the whole defensive/holding package in one player. Makelele probably being a good example.

Then you have the more passing/holding types who are excellent deep lying play makers. Pirlo types.

And you have the pure defensive player with a decent short passing game like Neil Lennon.

I think Robinson does a job for us. He's not bad in the tackle and not bad in the short passing. He's long balls tend to end up as punts up the field. Unfortunately these days he doesn't really have too many people around him with the composure for a short passing game. With the youth of our center backs, Guevara suspended, and Edu missing that's sort of understandable.

[jloome]

I think there's also some debate these days about whether a holding midfielder is the same as a defensive midfielder.

Its not often that you get the whole defensive/holding package in one player. Makelele probably being a good example.

Then you have the more passing/holding types who are excellent deep lying play makers. Pirlo types.

And you have the pure defensive player with a decent short passing game like Neil Lennon.

I think Robinson does a job for us. He's not bad in the tackle and not bad in the short passing. He's long balls tend to end up as punts up the field. Unfortunately these days he doesn't really have too many people around him with the composure for a short passing game. With the youth of our center backs, Guevara suspended, and Edu missing that's sort of understandable.


Well put. In fact, Lennon's an apt comparison and it would probably be easier to differentiate if the overall gamebreakers were described universally as 'holding midfielders' versus just midfielders.

[GhostPK]

Well, Gattuso has a pretty good shot!

But beyond that, your description sounds fairly apt. I'd add, however, that a DM should still be able to split a defense with a good long pass, so it's not just short passing.

A good dm needs really good field vision and positioning, becuase they have to be among the first lines of defence, shaking up the opposing team's offensive shape before it's established in an opposing end. For all his (quite exceptional) one-on-one play, Robbo doesn't control the flow of the play, ala Shalrie Jospeh (or perhaps more accurately, ala Javier Mascherano or Roy Keane).

I would partially agree. Long pass' are needed at certian points, however Robbo over did it. When you're down 1 nil its probably better to work pressure on the D instead of just lobbing the ball down field when everyone is already tired.

[Wooster_TFC]

I would partially agree. Long pass' are needed at certian points, however Robbo over did it. When you're down 1 nil its probably better to work pressure on the D instead of just lobbing the ball down field when everyone is already tired.

Ah I think you misunderstood the point. When jloome says long pass he doesn't mean long ball. What he really means is through ball. If all your DM can do is make that short pass, all that will happen is the opposition will put short pressure and it will end up back to the centre backs, with pressure coming quickly. I think this is one area where Robbo is very lacking, in that it's very difficult for him to make the through ball in order to complement his short passing game. Heck you don't even have to use it a lot, just have the option.

I really think that moving Guevara back to beside Robbo will help him out a lot, since he won't have the only option being the wings. And please don't try and tell me he had Edu there, since all Edu was good for was the short pass as well.

[Canadian Blue]

Robbo is a solid tackler and his positioning is generally good. He sees so much of the ball that unfortunatly exposes the fact that he is not a supreme passer. All in all I am a fan of Robbo's defensive ability and the fact that he sees so much of the ball points out Toronto FC's faults and not solely Robbo's

[Captain Croatia]

Many things are needed to be a good DM.
- Positioning, smarts, vision, passing (short and long), anticipation, man to man marking, tackling. You really need to be a complete player to be a good DM.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

a great Dm should act as a defender who plays just a bit ahead of the actual defence line, and he should chase chase down and track back after the player getting down and dirty and not being a spectator... example: Mashcherano....

[LucaGol]

Marcos Senna, Javier Mascherano and Michael Essien.....these are the gold standards.

Not brilliant playmakers, not scorers of eyepopping wonder goals......just hard work, class (meaning fundamental ball skills), anticipation...hard work, and relentlessness in defense.

A great tackler does not make a great DM. Sorry.

[druid]

People have listed a lot of traits here, and I don't think any of them are wrong or bad to have as a defensive midfielder.

Robinson has decent reading of developing play, decent short passing, and is not a bad tackler.

His long passing, shooting, and offensive vision seem weaker to me.

So if AC Milan and others are breaking the job into two parts, holding/defensive - Pirlo/Gattuso, its probably unrealistic to expect that lowly TFC can expect much more than we've got right now.

[trane]

^ I think that was what Carver was trying to do with Robo and Edu. We will see what happens now.

[Kooper]

A great CM is a guy you don't see. You don't notice them because they make the right pass at the right time, they always mark and tackle well. No blunders no Glory. The Platinum standard is the man who name defines the position Claude Makalele. CM

[Carts]

A great CM is a guy you don't see. You don't notice them because they make the right pass at the right time, they always mark and tackle well. No blunders no Glory.

Well said...

My coach as a youngster told me that almost word for word growing up...

Carts...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Apparently Tello does not make a great DM/CM

[LucaGol]

For the last time, Andrea Pirlo is not a defensive midfielder.

He's a regista...sure he sits in front of the back 4, but he's more of a playmaker and distributor from the back...he has no DM qualities.

[ACSertL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_Matthaus

:)

[trane]

For the last time, Andrea Pirlo is not a defensive midfielder.

He's a regista...sure he sits in front of the back 4, but he's more of a playmaker and distributor from the back...he has no DM qualities.


Nobody is saying that Pirlo is a DM, the point was that Gattuso is, and that Pirlo, in that system sits back, holds and ditributes the ball to the attacking players, as well as starts the attack. THat way Gattuso can always be defense first.

[Jack]

A great CM is a guy you don't see. You don't notice them because they make the right pass at the right time, they always mark and tackle well. No blunders no Glory. The Platinum standard is the man who name defines the position Claude Makalele. CM

I've said this so many times...:p

[druid]

For the last time, Andrea Pirlo is not a defensive midfielder.

He's a regista...sure he sits in front of the back 4, but he's more of a playmaker and distributor from the back...he has no DM qualities.

No argument here. I just brought it up because many of the posts were mentioning traits that I would more associate with a holding (regista) midfielder and I was attempting to illustrate the difference.

Occasionally you do come across a midfielder with both defensive and holding attributes but its extremely rare.

[LucaGol]

No argument here. I just brought it up because many of the posts were mentioning traits that I would more associate with a holding (regista) midfielder and I was attempting to illustrate the difference.

Occasionally you do come across a midfielder with both defensive and holding attributes but its extremely rare.

Fair enough.