How much more should we put up with?

[v00d00daddy]

I know the idea of a supporter protest never goes over well on this board and I can understand why. I understand that turning your back on a team when they are down is harsh.

That being said, how much more of this should we take without some kind of response?

There are 5 home games left on the schedule and I don't think we can wait much longer to let the team and front office know that there performance is unacceptable.

I for one do not want to blindly cheer and scream on behalf of the boys when they've given us nothing for over 2 months. Some may call me a shitty supporter but I just want to know if there is anyone else that is totally fed up with TFC's play, Carver's tactics, and Mo's inability to get the team what they need.

What can we do as supporters? A well worded chant? A boycott of certain chants? No more concession purchases?

I don't want to end up at BMO in October saying to myself:

"Wow...that was terrible. I can't believe they tanked that badly at the end of the year and here we are cheering them on. What? Ummmm....no thanks fellow supporter, I really don't feel like storming the pitch this year. Thanks for the invite though."

Any suggestions?

[Parkdale]

There are 5 home games left on the schedule and I don't think we can wait much longer to let the team and front office know that there performance is unacceptable.


do you honestly think that they don't know that themselves?

they know when they're stinking it up. They don't need us to remind them.
And certainly not the team... they need us to be loud and proud more than ever.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I cant see us making anymore moves this season.....TFC is what it is for 2008!!! Am i happy NO!!!.. but...As a supporter...i will continue...to support my team
%100...Tactics...PLayer Signing are out of our hands!!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

do you honestly think that they don't know that themselves?

they know when they're stinking it up. They don't need us to remind them.
And certainly not the team... they need us to be loud and proud more than ever.

Does the MLS know that they are shit!! Do they know that they are nothing more then the shit that floats to the top of Englands League 2!!
I'm sick of TFC tanking at the bottom of one of the worlds Shitiest leagues. Did you watch the game parkdale!?? It was horrible! They couldn't string together 3 passes if they're life depended on it!! It was Parks and Rec type shit

[Parkdale]

Does the MLS know that they are shit!! Do they know that they are nothing more then the shit that floats to the top of Englands League 2!!
I'm sick of TFC tanking at the bottom of one of the worlds Shitiest leagues. Did you watch the game parkdale!?? It was horrible! They couldn't string together 3 passes if they're life depended on it!! It was Parks and Rec type shit

yes I watched the game, but what does your opinion on MLS have to do with anything? We couldn't go play in England's League 2 if we wanted too. The MLS is the only major league for the sport in our country, so we're going to have to live with it.

I watched the game and saw some decent playing, too bad it was against us.

[TFC-Tyler]

Does the MLS know that they are shit!! Do they know that they are nothing more then the shit that floats to the top of Englands League 2!!
I'm sick of TFC tanking at the bottom of one of the worlds Shitiest leagues. Did you watch the game parkdale!?? It was horrible! They couldn't string together 3 passes if they're life depended on it!! It was Parks and Rec type shit
Honestly, what the hell is with you and League 2?

I have seen you post "we couldnt even beat an English League 2 team" and "I'd rather watch English League 2 than MLS."

Firstly, English League 2 is higher quality than MLS. Remember that. Saying we couldnt beat a League 2 team is not insulting in the least. Not to mention saying you'd rather watch higher quality is pointless too.

Second, if you're so obsessed with League 2 that you cant go a post without it, go and watch it.

[Carter]

Well personally myself, i am no Leafs supporter who is willing to turn his back on his team when they need it the most.

So i will be here yelling, and chanting until we "storm the pitch" at the end of the year.

I'm passionate about our lads, sometimes disappointed, but still very passionate. I know some other guys that have the same level of Passion as i for this team. We all need to stick together.

I'm With you Parkdale!!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

yes I watched the game, but what does your opinion on MLS have to do with anything? We couldn't go play in England's League 2 if we wanted too. The MLS is the only major league for the sport in our country, so we're going to have to live with it.

I watched the game and saw some decent playing, too bad it was against us.


I know i'm just venting.....

It's just so frustrating seeing the complete lack of quality on the field! I pray that they bring in players that know the basics of soccer i.e. Run, Kick, Pass, Shoot!!

The thing about it is, i wouldn't even mind that they lose, if their quality was up to par!! but its not!, its horrible watching these little boys run around in their timbits jerseys...

[v00d00daddy]

Why does the idea of letting the team know that we are pissed translate into not being passionate or not being loyal?

Yes they know that they are playing like shit. They also know that we have been supporting them and cheering them on througout the last 2 months. What has that changed? Nothing. Maybe letting them know vocally that we're pissed will wake them up. Maybe some of them have become complacent (ie: Robert) and need a bit of a kick in the ass from the supporters? It's an option isn't it?

Sometimes we have to tell the people that we love that they need to get their shit together. The whole "chanting and singing our hearts out" thing isn't working....is it?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Honestly, what the hell is with you and League 2?

I have seen you post "we couldnt even beat an English League 2 team" and "I'd rather watch English League 2 than MLS."

Firstly, English League 2 is higher quality than MLS. Remember that. Saying we couldnt beat a League 2 team is not insulting in the least. Not to mention saying you'd rather watch higher quality is pointless too.

Second, if you're so obsessed with League 2 that you cant go a post without it, go and watch it.

Its league 2!!! Your thinking of Englands Championship league....

Go and watch league 2 and you'll see it's garbage!! I guess you weren't frustrated watching Sundays game were you?!?? For you its just another loss that will turn around eh??? We'll for me, i wear my heart on my sleeve!! I love TFC, always will!! but it pains me to see that poor poor display of so-called footy!!

[H Bomb]

I just want to make sure people here know that English "League 2" is the 4th division in England. Not that anyone here will be using information in their posts

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I just want to make sure people here know that English "League 2" is the 4th division in England. Not that anyone here will be using information in their posts

Thank you!! LOL...everyone seems to think that its the next one right after premiership!!! :cool:

[koryo]

I know i'm just venting.....

It's just so frustrating seeing the complete lack of quality on the field! I pray that they bring in players that know the basics of soccer i.e. Run, Kick, Pass, Shoot!!

The thing about it is, i wouldn't even mind that they lose, if their quality was up to par!! but its not!, its horrible watching these little boys run around in their timbits jerseys...

Venting is one thing, being a broken record is something else. I should know, I'm notorious for it :)

These are very frustrating days, and frankly I was furious after yesterday's game too. That's happened quite a bit recently.

But that's no reason to pack it in just yet. Put it in perspective: we're a year two team, so while there's an argument that we should be better than we are, fact is we are what we are. What's needed at times like this is some patience, a critical eye, and the unwavering belief that it will get better.

When we do improve, when we do become a good team, it will be all the sweeter for having weathered the current situation.

[TFC-Tyler]

I just want to make sure people here know that English "League 2" is the 4th division in England. Not that anyone here will be using information in their posts
Yes, with my favorite team in it being Lincoln City.

I'm well aware of that, and everything I said remains true. Keep up the good work though H-bomb!

[jabbronies]

Mo has a 5 year plan....it's evident with the team we have right now. Lots of great young talent that will blossom over the next few years, and frankly, I'm ok with that.

Yes we are shite right now, but our future looks bright. I don't want MLSE doing what they've done with the leafs and give away our future just for some immediate gratification.

I'll be 100% onboard for a supporters protest of team in 2-3 even 4 seasons from now. If the team is as shite as they are now, then we have reason to protest. I mean serious, no one come to the stadium protest.

[TFC-Tyler]

Its league 2!!! Your thinking of Englands Championship league....

Go and watch league 2 and you'll see it's garbage!! I guess you weren't frustrated watching Sundays game were you?!?? For you its just another loss that will turn around eh??? We'll for me, i wear my heart on my sleeve!! I love TFC, always will!! but it pains me to see that poor poor display of so-called footy!!
I'm well aware of what it is.

I have watched it, and it's better quality than MLS.

I was frustrated, wuit putting words into my mouth, you look very silly, for a lack of a better term thanks to moderators.

You dont wear your heart on your sleeve by insulting every single player on the team and saying they suck, even though they dont, it makes you look like a casual fan which according to you, you clearly arent.

[H Bomb]

Yes, with my favorite team in it being Lincoln City.

I'm well aware of that, and everything I said remains true. Keep up the good work though H-bomb!

I dont know you but feel free to fuck off. I rarely check the posts i'm responding to so if I've been fingering you out then it's because of context not because I'm looking for you. So again, fuck off, whoever you are, not my fault you're retarded.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

do you honestly think that they don't know that themselves?

they know when they're stinking it up. They don't need us to remind them.
And certainly not the team... they need us to be loud and proud more than ever.

Thats pretty much it, itd be one thing if it had been 3 seasons with no trades/signings and no money being spent, with a coach/manager thta have no ambition and we had claudio reyna in mid.
But we dont, we are on a slide, perhaps we wont make the playoffs but maybe we can still win the rest of our games, lord knows they wont feel encouraged if they cant hear us. I dont think we've lost from a lack of effort on anyones part (sauve several moments in yesterdays match).
I do think we've been given the short end of the stick at some moments this season. I also dont feel like giving up. CMON YOU FUCKING REDS

[Afra]

Good point, Koryo. At least we are better this year than last. We are heading in the right direction as opposed to other MLSE teams.

[TFC Tifoso]

do you honestly think that they don't know that themselves?

they know when they're stinking it up. They don't need us to remind them.
And certainly not the team... they need us to be loud and proud more than ever.


It's not about that....if they don't know it by now they're plain stupid. It's about US telling THEM (FO, players) that WE as supporters will not eat the same shit sundaes MLSE has been so good at serving up the past 10-15+ years. All TFC supporters have a chance to set a standard here as far as what supporters expect from the team, since this concept is fairly unique here (the concept of SG's, as opposed to cheerleader fans).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The prob is i dont really have a prob with what the FO has done this year, we've improved signifcantly over last year and will do so next year, yes im sad we may not make playoffs and yes there are improvements to be made overall, im not a disillusioned leafs fan but a realistic TFC supporter. We are in our second year and have a better record then 4 out of 6 teams in the western conference, thats fucking massive, granted we could obviously be better and we shouldnt stop demanding it

[mclaren]

Why does the idea of letting the team know that we are pissed translate into not being passionate or not being loyal?

Yes they know that they are playing like shit. They also know that we have been supporting them and cheering them on througout the last 2 months. What has that changed? Nothing. Maybe letting them know vocally that we're pissed will wake them up. Maybe some of them have become complacent (ie: Robert) and need a bit of a kick in the ass from the supporters? It's an option isn't it?

Sometimes we have to tell the people that we love that they need to get their shit together. The whole "chanting and singing our hearts out" thing isn't working....is it?

Unfortunately some people don't understand the difference.

[TFC Tifoso]

The prob is i dont really have a prob with what the FO has done this year, we've improved signifcantly over last year and will do so next year, yes im sad we may not make playoffs and yes there are improvements to be made overall, im not a disillusioned leafs fan but a realistic TFC supporter. We are in our second year and have a better record then 4 out of 6 teams in the western conference, thats fucking massive, granted we could obviously be better and we shouldnt stop demanding it


No its not.....we play in the Eastern Conference.

[mike_bouma]

The prob is i dont really have a prob with what the FO has done this year, we've improved signifcantly over last year and will do so next year, yes im sad we may not make playoffs and yes there are improvements to be made overall, im not a disillusioned leafs fan but a realistic TFC supporter. We are in our second year and have a better record then 4 out of 6 teams in the western conference, thats fucking massive, granted we could obviously be better and we shouldnt stop demanding it
Nail on the head. We're one year out of expansion and we're doing alright. They've moved up ladder since last year, we've got some really young talent, we got rid of Cunningham, and we just made some money of Edu. We've played some shitty soccer of late, but who honestly expected a championship of a one year old team. Just because we have the best fans in the MLS doesn't mean we are owed a championship in year two. Give it some time.

[Southsider]

The prob is i dont really have a prob with what the FO has done this year, we've improved signifcantly over last year and will do so next year, yes im sad we may not make playoffs and yes there are improvements to be made overall, im not a disillusioned leafs fan but a realistic TFC supporter. We are in our second year and have a better record then 4 out of 6 teams in the western conference, thats fucking massive, granted we could obviously be better and we shouldnt stop demanding it


^^Amen to that. If anybody here expects to come anywhere close to winning the Cup next year they need a reality check. This is a second year team with a lot of restraints on what the FO is actually capable of. Granted lately we have had a few poor efforts, but being a supporter means you SUPPORT the team no matter what(almost). And turning our backs on them in their second year of existence in any league would just be giving up. We can't have Real Madrid over night!! :cool:

Dammit Mike, we must have been sharing a wavelength there.

Kris.

[Super]

I think the bottom line is that we could do a whole heck of a lot better with the players we have right now, at least on paper. People keep saying that it's year two and as such we shouldn't expect anything from anybody, but in my opinion it's not expecting too much that the players we DO have right now play at least at 80% of what they're able to give each game. Let's face it, most of our players have played WELL below standard for a while, and everybody seems to agree that there's very little heart in TFC's performances. That's a commitment issue, and it can happen to a team in year two just as well as it can happen in year 20.

Buck stops with the coach and manager. They need to find a way to motivate the lads on the field, and we too have to do our part. Turning out backs on the team will be counter-productive, and let's not forget that when the team eventually WILL do well (and I believe that they will some day, hopefully sooner than later) then the players will just look at us and go: You only sing when we're winning?

So much for supporters mentality. I don't need support from my family and friends when my life is going great. It's when I'm down and out that I need it the most. Football players are no different!

[H Bomb]

Turning our backs on the team will be counter-productive, and let's not forget that when the team eventually WILL do well (and I believe that they will some day, hopefully sooner than later) then the players will just look at us and go: You only sing when we're winning?

So much for supporters mentality. I don't need support from my family and friends when my life is going great. It's when I'm down and out that I need it the most.

100% right. support means supporting. 2 months of shit is nothing people. 2 years isn't much either.

[Alarius]

Fans criticize and abandon their teams when they play shitty..
Supporters cheer on the team even more... perhaps in hope that their passion will stir on the hearts of their players..

[mclaren]

^^Amen to that. If anybody here expects to come anywhere close to winning the Cup next year they need a reality check. This is a second year team with a lot of restraints on what the FO is actually capable of. Granted lately we have had a few poor efforts, but being a supporter means you SUPPORT the team no matter what(almost). And turning our backs on them in their second year of existence in any league would just be giving up. We can't have Real Madrid over night!! :cool:

Dammit Mike, we must have been sharing a wavelength there.

Kris.

What restraints? DP spot, allocation money etc. etc. we have.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

100% right. support means supporting. 2 months of shit is nothing people. 2 years isn't much either.

HAHAHAHA
totally true, especially as far as the football world is concerned.
can you imagine what its like to be an RBNY supporter?
How long have they been around and what have they won (outside of yesterdays game)? THEY STILL HAVE FUCKING THROWBALL LINES ON THE FIELD!!!!

Can you imagine what its like to be a colorado supporter?
Having your front office more or less tell you that your expandable?

[mclaren]

I hate it when people twist the argument. For the final time, nobody is saying we should stop support the team - people are asking what should be done to protest the complete lack of progress taking place at the moment.

[Hitcho]

WTF?! We're one and a half seasons into TFC's history. How can anyone be "sick" of watching the team "tank" for god's sake?! We're on our second caoch in as many seasons, none of the players have had more than a season and a bit to get to know each other and there have been PLENTY of changes since the original line up. Earlier this season everyone was stoked at capturing Robert, RR and Guevara. They haven't worked out as well as Mo would have hoped, no doubt. But you cannot bash him for that - they seemed like great moves. He brought in some really exciting attacking players and got us a boat load of good draft picks in the process. Carver shored up the defence before we suffered terrible injury and international problems. What more do you people want?!

If you want to know what it feels like to be "sick" of supporting a team that "tanks", then think of those teams in Division 2 in England who used to be great but have been in abject oblivion for decades now - literally.

IF YOU'RE SICK OF FUCKING COMING TO WATCH THE TEAM, THEN FUCKING STAY AT HOME.

Otherwise, come down to BMO Field and let's see if our famous support can help the team turn things around. Getting on their backs won't help, whereas amazng support might help them win against NE, and that could prove to be a turning point.

Some people are not fans, they're just glory hunting pricks. Fuck off and support chelski if tnat's what you want. TFC is 18 months old, no shit they're not winngin the fucking league yet you ass holes. If they start doing well are you going to be all happy and start cheering again? What kind of fucking support is that. Get a grip, or fuck off and be a baseball fan.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I hate it when people twist the argument. For the final time, nobody is saying we should stop support the team - people are asking what should be done to protest the complete lack of progress taking place at the moment.

There is no lack of progress tho, if there was we would be in San Joses place, not in ours, we would have the same team and same coaches as last year. Once again, yes its shit we havent won in a bit, that can change, not by firing Managers or coaches and not by ridding of playerss as these same players have played and won games. A protest, i can assure you, will not change, only the team can and that is likely to happen if they hear support. Obviously they know fans are unhappy, what kind of fan is happy when their team loses not just once but several games in a row...

[Hitcho]

I hate it when people twist the argument. For the final time, nobody is saying we should stop support the team - people are asking what should be done to protest the complete lack of progress taking place at the moment.

NOTHING. There's been plenty of progress - we've signed some great players, we're in contention for the play offs in a pretty tough conference after less than two seasons, we've got a load of good draft picks coming up, we have a coach with top level Europpean experience, a great strength and fitness coach. The club is part way through its second season - what kind of progress were you expecting, the MLS Cup?! Get a fucking grip. You can't expect an expansion team to be constantly moving forward at that kind of pace.

The simple fact is that we all would have taken the play offs this season before it began, and we still have a decent shout of making that. We were BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE last season. HOW IS THIS NOT PROGRESS??!!

[v00d00daddy]

Fans criticize and abandon their teams when they play shitty..
Supporters cheer on the team even more... perhaps in hope that their passion will stir on the hearts of their players..


Here it is again. Okay...you're a supporter and I'm a fan. Now that we've got that out of the way....

I'm not abandoning this team. I've never once expected a fucking cup. At the start of this year I didn't even EXPECT a fucking playoff spot.

I expect results and improvement. From one game to the next. I don't give a shit that we are an expansion team. Like I said, I'm not asking for the world. I just want to see an all out effort, every game, from every facet of this team. If you guys think that's what you've been getting than YOU need a reality check.

This shit makes me angry. 2 wins in 15 games and you guys are still towing the party line. I'm not looking for a playoff spot next game because they can't get a playoff spot next game. I wasn't looking for the MLS cup on Sunday because they can't win the MLS cup in August.

I WANT A TEAM THAT WILL FIND A WAY TO WIN!

Cheering these guys on incessantly is not going to help them win against New England. We've tried it and it failed. They're not inspired by us cheering and singing and waving flags right now.

Yes...we will cheer for them again. Hell it might even be during the next game against New England....but only if they merit it. I'm tired of giving it my all when they're not giving it back. I'm sure others are tired as well. Some of you would rather call me a "fan" or "not loyal" than point the finger at the peope responsible for making your game day experience shitty. They're the ones turning their backs on us. Maybe they should get it in return.

Maybe they'll be inspired by us letting them know that their effort has been shit, their execution has been laughable and their competetive streak is gone.

[H Bomb]

One thing I do struggle with here is the "lack of passion" thing. We haven't lost a single game this year because of passion or heart, any time we've lost has been because of talent and more importantly, score. Sure I want to see every player colapse from fatigue after a game after giving it their all, but that wont help us win, and I have yet to see a game where the team hasn't tried (their have been a few players that might not pass that litmus test). It's not about winning when they shouldn't, it's about scoring goals and defending. The heart of a champion is something only talented people have because only talented people are champions.

[Tezza]

People keep throwing around that we don't want to be like leaf fans. Well you're acting EXACTLY like leaf fans. You're prepared to sit and do fuck all about it and blindly support an FO that is doing jack shit to improve the team. MLSE should be pointing fingers at Mo and Carver for the performances of both themselves and the team they are putting on the field. All Voodoo is saying is that we as supporters should also show MLSE that we demand better than this.

Second year or not we have the ability to improve the team and we continue to fall flat while others are signing quality players. MLSE needs to question Mo about his lack of signings, Mo needs to question Carver about his tactics and ability to get the best out of what he has been given, and Carver needs to question his team as to why they can't put together a solid effort for 90 minutes when they have the best support in the league both home and away.

The answers may be that Mo can't sign players because of the turf, Carver may say that he needs better players, and the team may be lazy as fuck...but MLSE will do nothing as long as we scream and yell at the games and buy lots o beer.

I would support a protest in the form of chants directed at the team provided it is constructive. I will never give up on TFC...but they need to understand that we demand more. That is the point. We demand MORE than other teams. I don't care what other teams have or haven't achieved....I care about Toronto and I want them to know that what is going on right now is not acceptable.

[Southsider]

What restraints? DP spot, allocation money etc. etc. we have.


I was thinking bigger picture, say compared to top EPL, La Liga, etc, which is who we are competing against to sign top talent. We have the same restrictions as other teams in MLS (galaxy being the apparent exception) :D

[v00d00daddy]

A protest, i can assure you, will not change, only the team can and that is likely to happen if they hear support. Obviously they know fans are unhappy, what kind of fan is happy when their team loses not just once but several games in a row...

Ossington...let me preface this by saying that I think you're a smart guy and I've always appreciated your posts so my reply here is not meant with any disrespect.

How can you assure anyone that a protest of some kind will not change anything?

How is it obvious that TFC knows that the fans are unhappy? Does all of our support and singing and chanting somehow get translated in their heads.

If I'm a player on TFC on the pitch at BMO against NE and I hear any of the number of chants that will be heard next game I would be wondering what team the supporters have been watching.

How can you sing "We're red, we're white, we're fucking dynomite" with a straight face when we've won 2 out of 15 games?

Somebody please answer me that.

[H Bomb]

People keep throwing around that we don't want to be like leaf fans. Well you're acting EXACTLY like leaf fans. You're prepared to sit and do fuck all about it and blindly support an FO that is doing jack shit to improve the team. MLSE should be pointing fingers at Mo and Carver for the performances of both themselves and the team they are putting on the field. All Voodoo is saying is that we as supporters should also show MLSE that we demand better than this.

Second year or not we have the ability to improve the team and we continue to fall flat while others are signing quality players. MLSE needs to question Mo about his lack of signings, Mo needs to question Carver about his tactics and ability to get the best out of what he has been given, and Carver needs to question his team as to why they can't put together a solid effort for 90 minutes when they have the best support in the league both home and away.

The answers may be that Mo can't sign players because of the turf, Carver may say that he needs better players, and the team may be lazy as fuck...but MLSE will do nothing as long as we scream and yell at the games and buy lots o beer.



I agree with you until this point, it seems a leap of faith. I don't understand the idea that MLSE is a giant evil corporation that conciously loses unless it needs to win. I'm certain they're trying. I'm not thrilled right now but I don't think they are consciously saying who cares. Just doesn't compute.

[TFC-Tyler]

One thing I do struggle with here is the "lack of passion" thing. We haven't lost a single game this year because of passion or heart, any time we've lost has been because of talent and more importantly, score. Sure I want to see every player colapse from fatigue after a game after giving it their all, but that wont help us win, and I have yet to see a game where the team hasn't tried (their have been a few players that might not pass that litmus test). It's not about winning when they shouldn't, it's about scoring goals and defending. The heart of a champion is something only talented people have because only talented people are champions.
Bullshit. I'm not saying the team has no heart, but if everyone played 110% every game, we'd be in a playoff spot.

[THA BUTCHA]

Fans criticize and abandon their teams when they play shitty..
Supporters cheer on the team even more... perhaps in hope that their passion will stir on the hearts of their players..

I've already Boycotted going to games do to their poor preformances.

But,

I still watch EVERY game on the tele.

I still wear my TFC Jersey every weekend even with stains even thou my wife shakes her head @ me.

I always stop and chat with anybody I see wearing a TFC jersey.

I always have to remind myself not to purchase anymore TFC apparel I promised the wife (But its tough sometimes).

I always recommended to my friends and family to go and watch TFC games.

I enjoy talking about TFC all the time (even if they do suck)

I go to this message board a couple of times a day to get any little piece of TFC news cause the print media are garbage.

I find myself @ work singing TFC chants to myself when I'm bored.

If I'm a part time supporter, I'm afraid to ask what you guys think is a full time supporter

[TFC-Tyler]

I agree with you until this point, it seems a leap of faith. I don't understand the idea that MLSE is a giant evil corporation that conciously loses unless it needs to win. I'm certain they're trying. I'm not thrilled right now but I don't think they are consciously saying who cares. Just doesn't compute.
Wow, you clearly have never heard of the Maple Leafs then.

[mclaren]

NOTHING. There's been plenty of progress - we've signed some great players, we're in contention for the play offs in a pretty tough conference after less than two seasons, we've got a load of good draft picks coming up, we have a coach with top level Europpean experience, a great strength and fitness coach. The club is part way through its second season - what kind of progress were you expecting, the MLS Cup?! Get a fucking grip. You can't expect an expansion team to be constantly moving forward at that kind of pace.

The simple fact is that we all would have taken the play offs this season before it began, and we still have a decent shout of making that. We were BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE last season. HOW IS THIS NOT PROGRESS??!!

Did someone say expansion team? Ah, that old chestnut. We'll still be using it in 10 years time with this level of ambition!

[mclaren]

Here it is again. Okay...you're a supporter and I'm a fan. Now that we've got that out of the way....

I'm not abandoning this team. I've never once expected a fucking cup. At the start of this year I didn't even EXPECT a fucking playoff spot.

I expect results and improvement. From one game to the next. I don't give a shit that we are an expansion team. Like I said, I'm not asking for the world. I just want to see an all out effort, every game, from every facet of this team. If you guys think that's what you've been getting than YOU need a reality check.

This shit makes me angry. 2 wins in 15 games and you guys are still towing the party line. I'm not looking for a playoff spot next game because they can't get a playoff spot next game. I wasn't looking for the MLS cup on Sunday because they can't win the MLS cup in August.

I WANT A TEAM THAT WILL FIND A WAY TO WIN!

Cheering these guys on incessantly is not going to help them win against New England. We've tried it and it failed. They're not inspired by us cheering and singing and waving flags right now.

Yes...we will cheer for them again. Hell it might even be during the next game against New England....but only if they merit it. I'm tired of giving it my all when they're not giving it back. I'm sure others are tired as well. Some of you would rather call me a "fan" or "not loyal" than point the finger at the peope responsible for making your game day experience shitty. They're the ones turning their backs on us. Maybe they should get it in return.

Maybe they'll be inspired by us letting them know that their effort has been shit, their execution has been laughable and their competetive streak is gone.

And that, my friends is the truth. But people will still twist your words and say you EXPECT an MLS Cup and the play-offs even though we're an expansion team. That is what you call a straw man argument and it keeps getting wheeled out anyone with any sense criticises the team!

[Hitcho]

I'm not abandoning this team.

Cheering these guys on incessantly is not going to help them win against New England. We've tried it and it failed. They're not inspired by us cheering and singing and waving flags right now.

I'm tired of giving it my all when they're not giving it back.

They're the ones turning their backs on us. Maybe they should get it in return.

Maybe they'll be inspired by us letting them know that their effort has been shit, their execution has been laughable and their competetive streak is gone.

How the fuck is that lot not abandoning your team?! Clearly they've been trying. Did you see the devastation on their faces after the recent last minute losses on the road when they thought they'd grafted out a point? They don't turn up and not give a fuck, otherwise we'd lose every game 10-0. Players like brennan would bleed on the shirt to keep it red (and probably have). No team wins every game, every team goes through rough patches. You're someone who only wants to cheer and support the team if they win consistently and if they don't, you give up on them until they do. Well fine, give up. Let someone else go to the games will support the team throguh good times AND bad. Whether you're a fan or a supoprter or whatever is all bullshit. Either you're behind the team through thick and think, or you're fair weather fan who only gets behind them if you think they're meeting your standards and requirements.

Well here's a plan - Houston are playing well right now, go and support them. Muppet.

EDIT - and if every set of fans prtoested every time a team went through a rough patch, then sport would not be worth following, because it would just be a bunch of pissing and moaning and then swapping to a team that was doing better. What kind of a system is that?!

[H Bomb]

Wow, you clearly have never heard of the Maple Leafs then.

Nope never heard of em. :noidea:

[ManUtd4ever]

I try to keep everything in perspective. This year's product on the pitch is a definite improvement over last year. Mo has acquired young talent and a plethora of draft choices laying the foundation for a solid future. However, I will reiterate what I stated after yesterday's disgrace; I can accept a hard fought loss in the worst of times but a lack of effort is totally unacceptable for a team that is fortunate enough to play for the most passionate fanbase in the mls...

[LucaGol]

How the fuck is that lot not abandoning your team?! Clearly they've been trying. Did you see the devastation on their faces after the recent last minute losses on the road when they thought they'd grafted out a point? They don't turn up and not give a fuck, otherwise we'd lose every game 10-0. Players like brennan would bleed on the shirt to keep it red (and probably have). No team wins every game, every team goes through rough patches. You're someone who only wants to cheer and support the team if they win consistently and if they don't, you give up on them until they do. Well fine, give up. Let someone else go to the games will support the team throguh good times AND bad. Whether you're a fan or a supoprter or whatever is all bullshit. Either you're behind the team through thick and think, or you're fair weather fan who only gets behind them if you think they're meeting your standards and requirements.

Well here's a plan - Houston are playing well right now, go and support them. Muppet.

EDIT - and if every set of fans prtoested every time a team went through a rough patch, then sport would not be worth following, because it would just be a bunch of pissing and moaning and then swapping to a team that was doing better. What kind of a system is that?!

You honestly believe the team is giving a maximum effort...particularly with regards to the last 10 games or so?

[Terry]

As long as they are our club, we should put up with absolutely every thing. Teams go through rough times, and we are going through one. We do not truly love this team if we're going to protest or boycott because we are not doing well. Sure we could be doing better, but we're not, and we're going to have to deal with that. If success ever comes it will be that much better.

[v00d00daddy]

How the fuck is that lot not abandoning your team?! Clearly they've been trying. Did you see the devastation on their faces after the recent last minute losses on the road when they thought they'd grafted out a point? They don't turn up and not give a fuck, otherwise we'd lose every game 10-0. Players like brennan would bleed on the shirt to keep it red (and probably have). No team wins every game, every team goes through rough patches. You're someone who only wants to cheer and support the team if they win consistently and if they don't, you give up on them until they do. Well fine, give up. Let someone else go to the games will support the team throguh good times AND bad. Whether you're a fan or a supoprter or whatever is all bullshit. Either you're behind the team through thick and think, or you're fair weather fan who only gets behind them if you think they're meeting your standards and requirements.

Well here's a plan - Houston are playing well right now, go and support them. Muppet.

The more you insult me the less weight your argument holds my friend. You can keep all your bleed red rhetoric because I don't need it.

Here's a plan....your doctor is in right now. Go see him and get a script for a valium.

P.S. If I'm gonna be a muppet I call Fozzy...he's the best.;)

[Draracle]

Toronto 'till I die. Even when it hurts... even if it always hurts.

[Terry]

Toronto 'till I die. Even when it hurts... even if it always hurts.

Perfect response of the mentality we should have.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

If youre all reall ythat upset voice your opinion in this survey

http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id=993178

[v00d00daddy]

Toronto 'till I die. Even when it hurts... even if it always hurts.


Yes. I agree. But you're missing my point. I'm not saying that I want to cheer for another team. I'm saying that I want this team to play better and I want to know what we can do to make that happen. (Other than what we do at every game thus far)

[TFC-Tyler]

Nope never heard of em. :noidea:
If you were serious, I'd say "consider yourself lucky.";)

[nimamalek]

If we dont make the playoffs by year 3 then i will be upset, until then i think we've made good progress this year, and we've got a solid core of experienced and young talent that they can build around

[THA BUTCHA]

If youre all reall ythat upset voice your opinion in this survey

http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id=993178


I think this survey is the best thing this team has done this season. At least they're willing to listen to what we have to say.

And I had alot to say.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Ossington...let me preface this by saying that I think you're a smart guy and I've always appreciated your posts so my reply here is not meant with any disrespect.

How can you assure anyone that a protest of some kind will not change anything?

How is it obvious that TFC knows that the fans are unhappy? Does all of our support and singing and chanting somehow get translated in their heads.

If I'm a player on TFC on the pitch at BMO against NE and I hear any of the number of chants that will be heard next game I would be wondering what team the supporters have been watching.

How can you sing "We're red, we're white, we're fucking dynomite" with a straight face when we've won 2 out of 15 games?

Somebody please answer me that.

Totally reasonable argument but for me its a matter of picking my fights, at this point in time i truly dont believe that a protest is warranted and i believe that if we cry wolf too often we will be ignored and or have less effect when a truly offensive issue shows up.

[jloome]

Yes, with my favorite team in it being Lincoln City.

I'm well aware of that, and everything I said remains true. Keep up the good work though H-bomb!

Except it's not, and you're comparing apples to oranges. On a consistent basis, the best MLS teams would rip league two to shred.

On a consistent basis, the worst MLS teams would have trouble competing in League Two.

There's that much difference between a good MLS performance and a bad MLS performance and a good number of the teams here, due to poor bench depth, injuries and travel fatigue, could fall into either that best or worst category.

So it's a specious comparison. But I'll suggest htat if you brought over the average league two team and made them compete with an 18 man roster and our travel distances, they would be dead last based on talent alone.

[Carter]

Toronto 'till I die. Even when it hurts... even if it always hurts.


I cry sometimes when it hurts, but i at least wait to get home from the pitch...

[Hitcho]

The more you insult me the less weight your argument holds my friend. You can keep all your bleed red rhetoric because I don't need it.

Here's a plan....your doctor is in right now. Go see him and get a script for a valium.

P.S. If I'm gonna be a muppet I call Fozzy...he's the best.;)

All the muppets are cool, it wasn't really designed as an insult, more of a statement that I disagree with your point of view. And if you think I need to go on valium, then I bet going to a game with you is a real hoot. Maybe you'd like to take a nap at half time, or have them not serve beer because people get a bit lively for you on a Saturday afternoon!

So aside from calling you a muppet, for which I apologise, how does the rest of what I said not hold water? And if you're complaiing about the players not having heart, then how does the bleeding red statement not go right to the very pith of your complaint? And if that's the case, then you are, in fact, just upset that the players are not winning and not about anything else, which means my comments about you not following the team through a rough patch is also true. And, if you take that as an insult, then I've hit a nerve, because it wasn't thrown at you in a insulting way, it was just a conclusion based on your complaint about the team.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings mate, but I strongly believe in supporting your team through good times and bad. The harder they find it to get out of a bad run of form, the more they need us. Turning on them now and protesting this and that will just make it worse, and it totally undermines the support and happiness we all like to enjoy when they start doing well again, because it's frankly pretty hollow.

[Beach_Red]

Okay, here's what I wonder. I read a lot of books by a writer named Christopher Brookmyre, a Scottish guy - good books, if you get a chance, "A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away" is quite good - and on his webpage he links to his favourite football team, St. Mirren, and their supporter's group the Black and White Army. It seems like they have a stadium about the same size as BMO, currently being renovated. Looks good.

But there is zero chance this St. Mirren team is going to ever win anything. They'll never be top of the SPL and they'll never play in Europe. Why do people support them and a league in which only two teams ever win anything?

And, while we're talking, how would TFC do against a team like St. Mirren?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I guess my biggest issue is that people want to 'fire mo' or 'fire carver' or 'drop our entire back line' yet never have any reasonable, realistic constructive ideas as to what we could/should do instead with the team. Honestly, if we were LA all these comments would be totally reasonable, thats a perfect example of a team being mismanaged, If we were New york over its entire existance, or even if we were Chicago with Sarachan, that was a team being mismanaged, as of right now, Toronto is no where near either one of those teams.

[v00d00daddy]

All the muppets are cool, it wasn't really designed as an insult, more of a statement that I disagree with your point of view. And if you think I need to go on valium, then I bet going to a game with you is a real hoot. Maybe you'd like to take a nap at half time, or have them not serve beer because people get a bit lively for you on a Saturday afternoon!

So aside from calling you a muppet, for which I apologise, how does the rest of what I said not hold water? And if you're complaiing about the players not having heart, then how does the bleeding red statement not go right to the very pith of your complaint? And if that's the case, then you are, in fact, just upset that the players are not winning and not about anything else, which means my comments about you not following the team through a rough patch is also true. And, if you take that as an insult, then I've hit a nerve, because it wasn't thrown at you in a insulting way, it was just a conclusion based on your complaint about the team.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings mate, but I strongly believe in supporting your team through good times and bad. The harder they find it to get out of a bad run of form, the more they need us. Turning on them now and protesting this and that will just make it worse, and it totally undermines the support and happiness we all like to enjoy when they start doing well again, because it's frankly pretty hollow.

1. Nothing you said hit a nerve.
2. I enjoy a brew (or several) at every game. I'm one of the loudest people in my section.
3. How can you possibly chant "We're red, we're white, we're fucking dynomite" next game? Seriously. I would be embarrased to say that and the players would be embarrased to hear that.

You're afraid to criticize this team because when they do start playing better...and they will....you'll feel like a fair weather fan? That's your hang up man. I know that any negative comments I make about TFC are made with the utmost concern about the club. It doesn't make me a traitor to say how I feel. It makes me a sheep if I don't.


This team can win. They showed it at the start of the season. All of this "rough patch" and blaming it all on the circumstances is bullshit. They need to think more, work harder, and execute. No excuses. No bullshit. If they can't play like they did at the start of the season then they should go. There's plenty of talent on this team...they're just not showing it and that is unaccpetable. I for one will not accept it by cheering next game until they show me something.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This team can win. They showed it at the start of the season. All of this "rough patch" and blaming it all on the circumstances is bullshit. They need to think more, work harder, and execute. No excuses. No bullshit. If they can't play like they did at the start of the season then they should go. There's plenty of talent on this team...they're just not showing it and that is unaccpetable. I for one will not accept it by cheering next game until they show me something.

All perfectly reasonable to demand and expect, it is a good question on how to get this out of them. I dont believe a protest is the way and im certain that Carver will drill this into them.

[Hitcho]

1. Nothing you said hit a nerve.
2. I enjoy a brew (or several) at every game. I'm one of the loudest people in my section.
3. How can you possibly chant "We're red, we're white, we're fucking dynomite" next game? Seriously. I would be embarrased to say that and the players would be embarrased to hear that.

You're afraid to criticize this team because when they do start playing better...and they will....you'll feel like a fair weather fan? That's your hang up man. I know that any negative comments I make about TFC are made with the utmost concern about the club. It doesn't make me a traitor to say how I feel. It makes me a sheep if I don't.


This team can win. They showed it at the start of the season. All of this "rough patch" and blaming it all on the circumstances is bullshit. They need to think more, work harder, and execute. No excuses. No bullshit. If they can't play like they did at the start of the season then they should go. There's plenty of talent on this team...they're just not showing it and that is unaccpetable. I for one will not accept it by cheering next game until they show me something.

We're at cross purposes here. I'm not saying I will shout the dynamite chant and I'm not saying I'm afraind to criticize a poor performance. If they play shit, they know it. The players hate to lose far more than we do (with the possible excpetion of one or two retirement packages but even those guys are professionals who must care something). But what I am saying is that going all quiet on the team or booing them or whatever is utterly counter productive and I'll never do it.

There's a difference between being pissed off at the level of performance and jumping ship when results don't go well. You can b pissed off and still support them loudly in the hope of helping the team turn it around. But turning your back on them and protesting because they are not winning is not what sport is about. You can't always win, it;s about losing too and coming abck from that. And you won't help them come back from it by protesting at them. And even if it did work (it won't) how can you stand and cheer one game and then protest the next? It's fickle and spineless and endemic of a glory seeking plastic fan who only wants to do their part of the equation if they get what they want in advance. Screw that.

The team know if they play badly, they get their ass chewed off by Carver and the press smear them all over the place. Plus some of them probably come on these kind of boards and see this kind of crap. But do you honestly think going all silent or booing is a good move? And why, because you're not getting what you want? It's childish and pathetic. TFC will cause us all plenty of joy, anger, heartbreak, despair, tension and excitement for (we hope) decades to come, but the point is we SUPPORT the team through all of it. I'm not making pedantic points about fans and supporters - that's all semantic bullshit to me. What I'm saying is you buy your ticket and go along for the ride, but you buy your ticket BECAUSE of the ride, because you WANT to be there. You can't then turn around when things aren't going well and start demanding a different bargain. You're either in for the whol deal or you're not. You can't buy a season ticket on the proviso that "I'll only cheer if you play brilliantly and win all the time". What kind of madness is that?! You buy the ticket because you want to get behind your team. So get behind them. If you want to complain about the FO then write a letter, or stage a protest outside Gate 4 after the game, or unfurl a big banner saying the front office is shit and needs sorting out. But don't take it out on the team during match days.

As for not trying hard enough, if that's what your comaplinaing about then I'm still waiting to see how the bleeding red issue doesn't shoot that down in flames. And if players are giving their all bu the results aren;t quite coming (and let's be fair, some of the away losses have been last minute heart breakers recently under pretty serious injury impediments) then surely to god the answer is to sing your heart out and roar them on?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

WTF?! We're one and a half seasons into TFC's history. How can anyone be "sick" of watching the team "tank" for god's sake?! We're on our second caoch in as many seasons, none of the players have had more than a season and a bit to get to know each other and there have been PLENTY of changes since the original line up. Earlier this season everyone was stoked at capturing Robert, RR and Guevara. They haven't worked out as well as Mo would have hoped, no doubt. But you cannot bash him for that - they seemed like great moves. He brought in some really exciting attacking players and got us a boat load of good draft picks in the process. Carver shored up the defence before we suffered terrible injury and international problems. What more do you people want?!

If you want to know what it feels like to be "sick" of supporting a team that "tanks", then think of those teams in Division 2 in England who used to be great but have been in abject oblivion for decades now - literally.

IF YOU'RE SICK OF FUCKING COMING TO WATCH THE TEAM, THEN FUCKING STAY AT HOME.

Otherwise, come down to BMO Field and let's see if our famous support can help the team turn things around. Getting on their backs won't help, whereas amazng support might help them win against NE, and that could prove to be a turning point.

Some people are not fans, they're just glory hunting pricks. Fuck off and support chelski if tnat's what you want. TFC is 18 months old, no shit they're not winngin the fucking league yet you ass holes. If they start doing well are you going to be all happy and start cheering again? What kind of fucking support is that. Get a grip, or fuck off and be a baseball fan.


ooooooohhhh aaaaahhhhhhhhh I'm shaking in ma boots:cool:

You're probably the part-time supporter and it freaks me out that you don't care!!!:eek:

[v00d00daddy]

Yes. If they're giving their all then they should be supported. But they're NOT giving their all. You can't give your all and win 2 out of 15 games. You can't give your all and give up a two man breakaway, late in a game, up a man. Yes, Jimmy B gives his all. But he is not the whole team. The majority of this team has been half assed about the funk we're in...that's why we're in this funk.

You're putting words in my mouth. I don't need or want a win every game. I want an effort worthy of a win. If it doesn't come I don't care. I would like to see them put forth an effort similar to the start of the season. And by effort I don't mean trying. Trying is the very least that an athlete should offer. I mean I want to see intelligent, ball possession, unafraid soccer out of these guys. They can do it. They've done it. They're just not doing it now and haven't been for 2 months. That is inexcuseable.

I'm not calling for a complete dismantling of this team. I'm not even calling for Carver's head. I'm calling for an effort that shows some desperation. I want to see the players give their all and play smart football.

I started this thread to get some ideas of what we can do other than cheer the boys on. Apparently the masses believe that there is nothing we can do. Nothing we can say. Nothing we can sing that will let them know how we feel. If you feel "red and white and dynomite" or you feel like TFC instills fear in anyone right now as "they go marching in" then all I can say is I disagree and won't be joining in.

If you want to sing something that tells TFC that you're pissed then I'm all ears. That's what this thread was about. Again....any suggestions?

[Red Patch CA]

"...think more, work harder, execute.."

Tell us how; those are generalities. Pick a player, describe his deficiencies, see how he could fit better into a strategy. Give us something!

The last thing I want is your protest to change Carver and Mo's plans. But it won't because it provides nothing. They have a plan. I trust. TFC 'til I die, even though I have less time than most of you).:p

As for boycotting the games, who does that hurt?
Stick another fork in your forehead!

[v00d00daddy]

"...think more, work harder, execute.."

Tell us how; those are generalities. Pick a player, describe his deficiencies, see how he could fit better into a strategy. Give us something!

The last thing I want is your protest to change Carver and Mo's plans. But it won't because it provides nothing. They have a plan. I trust. TFC 'til I die, even though I have less time than most of you).:p

As for boycotting the games, who does that hurt?
Stick another fork in your forehead!


I'm not the coach. It's not my job to select players and strategies. I have my own ideas on that but that's not what we're talking about here.

I'm sure Mo and Carver have a plan. I have a plan too. I plan to eat some dinner soon. So what? The point is that their plan is not working and hasn't worked for nearly 2 months.

I never said to bocott the games. More of you guys putting words in my mouth. How would you like if I took the fork out of my forehead and used it to put words into your mouth? Tsk Tsk. Not very nice sir.;)

[v00d00daddy]

Just to get this straight.... If I end each of my posts with "TFC 'Til I Die" do I get more credibility or something?

I've just spent the better part of an afternoon reading and writing about TFC and ignoring my wife. I think it's pretty obvious that we all love TFC. Your attempts at belittling my support for the team are funny at best, and offensive at worst.


P.S.















TFC 'Til I Die.;)

[Red Patch CA]

Attaboy!:)

[mclaren]

Toronto 'till I die. Even when it hurts... even if it always hurts.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. But the club is bigger than the players and the manager.

[MadMike]

Other clubs around the world have no problem booing their team when the play is constantly rubbish. Why don't we try that ONCE and see the responce it gets from the boys. Yeah , Carver will no doubt say something like " I don't know why the fans are booing ..... the boys played to the best of there ability out there today " But I think the players know how much we care, and the passion we all have. They would know exactly why we are booing .......

[Kooper]

I know the idea of a supporter protest never goes over well on this board and I can understand why. I understand that turning your back on a team when they are down is harsh.

That being said, how much more of this should we take without some kind of response?

There are 5 home games left on the schedule and I don't think we can wait much longer to let the team and front office know that there performance is unacceptable.

I for one do not want to blindly cheer and scream on behalf of the boys when they've given us nothing for over 2 months. Some may call me a shitty supporter but I just want to know if there is anyone else that is totally fed up with TFC's play, Carver's tactics, and Mo's inability to get the team what they need.

What can we do as supporters? A well worded chant? A boycott of certain chants? No more concession purchases?

I don't want to end up at BMO in October saying to myself:

"Wow...that was terrible. I can't believe they tanked that badly at the end of the year and here we are cheering them on. What? Ummmm....no thanks fellow supporter, I really don't feel like storming the pitch this year. Thanks for the invite though."

Any suggestions?

I don't know about anyone else but I am getting tired of all this whining. We are an expansion team. Get over it! Even with a good offseason we will probably be in mid table obscurity.

[Shakes McQueen]

Other clubs around the world have no problem booing their team when the play is constantly rubbish. Why don't we try that ONCE and see the responce it gets from the boys. Yeah , Carver will no doubt say something like " I don't know why the fans are booing ..... the boys played to the best of there ability out there today " But I think the players know how much we care, and the passion we all have. They would know exactly why we are booing .......

Because Carver has a reputation of not calling out his players when they play a poor game...?

As for booing, I think it actually has happened before, in particularly rotten games. I also have no doubt the boos would have started after the second goal this weekend, had the game been at BMO.

Of course, the team also seems to play better at BMO, so that might explain a lack of booing. We did just suffer our first loss at home this season, a couple of weeks ago.

- Scott

[MadMike]

Because Carver has a reputation of not calling out his players when they play a poor game...?

As for booing, I think it actually has happened before, in particularly rotten games. I also have no doubt the boos would have started after the second goal this weekend, had the game been at BMO.

Of course, the team also seems to play better at BMO, so that might explain a lack of booing. We did just suffer our first loss at home this season, a couple of weeks ago.

- Scott
Your right, our FIRST loss at home was our last game. I am a diehard fan and no matter what I am going to renew my tix next year and for years to come. But this team does not deserve blind fans , at least the leafs have won in the past. TFC needs to stay around the 500 mark. I am not expecting the cup , I am not even expecting the playoffs ..... just a few moments of cohesion that is all I want.

[first person shooters]

Voodoodaddy i am with you.This team is going backwards ,we needed a propper striker but we ended up with a couple of green bannans.This team is not going to make the playoff's and it's time to voice our concerns or we will be singing the same tune next season.

[TFC-Tyler]

Because Carver has a reputation of not calling out his players when they play a poor game...?
"To be honest, I'm thinking how did he score 99?"

Yeah you're right.:noidea:

[Shakes McQueen]

"To be honest, I'm thinking how did he score 99?"

Yeah you're right.:noidea:

I was being sarcastic. That was my point - Carver seems to have no issue naming names after a bad game.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Your right, our FIRST loss at home was our last game. I am a diehard fan and no matter what I am going to renew my tix next year and for years to come. But this team does not deserve blind fans , at least the leafs have won in the past. TFC needs to stay around the 500 mark. I am not expecting the cup , I am not even expecting the playoffs ..... just a few moments of cohesion that is all I want.

I was at the Dallas game, and after the weird second goal went in, the stands basically just emptied. That probably makes an even bigger statement than booing - to look up at the final whistle, and see about 200 people left watching your sorry asses. :D

- Scott

[Cashcleaner]

Simple question - Are we better than we were last year (our inaugural season)?

I'd say the answer is a confident YES.

Of course, I'm no fool, though. I know that Mo, John, and the higher-ups have already turned their backs on this season. Now all they can do is look towards 2009 and hope they can pull together the sort of squad we need. Am I happy about all that? Not really, but would they really have a good chance at salvaging what's left of the season at the moment? I certainly don't think so. As I remarked in a previous thread, I have a feeling we'll see a remarkable change in the roster between the end of the 2008 season and the start of the 2009 season. I have a lot of confident in this team, some criticisms as well, but I think we'll be in a much better position once we can get our second season over and done with.

[Brooker]

How much more should we put up with?

im not trying to bitch at you but how long exactly have we been stinking? not even 2 months.

i mean, hell. 2 months of shit play.... you make it sound like thats long enough and we should we outraged?

sure it's beyond frustrating and has depressed me the hell out... but we're halfway through year 2 and quite honestly i think everyone is being beyond impatient.

the boys know they are playing piss poor. carver and mo know it. do we actually think they aren't trying? of course they are. and making a chant to remind them how SHIT they are isnt going to solve a damn thing. 50 people not spending money at BMO is going to do even less.

like parkdale said, the ONLY thing we can do to help this situation is sing our hearts out and and be louder with every home game.

CALM. DOWN. PEOPLE.

[VPjr]

Simple question - Are we better than we were last year (our inaugural season)?

I'd say the answer is a confident YES.

Of course, I'm no fool, though. I know that Mo, John, and the higher-ups have already turned their backs on this season. Now all they can do is look towards 2009 and hope they can pull together the sort of squad we need. Am I happy about all that? Not really, but would they really have a good chance at salvaging what's left of the season at the moment? I certainly don't think so. As I remarked in a previous thread, I have a feeling we'll see a remarkable change in the roster between the end of the 2008 season and the start of the 2009 season. I have a lot of confident in this team, some criticisms as well, but I think we'll be in a much better position once we can get our second season over and done with.

our record is better this year but frankly, this team is just as shit this year as it was last year. We had a good stretch of about 5-6 weeks but we have not been good in almost 2 months.

This season is lost. We thought the foundation was in place for a great run but its clear that this team is not further along than it was last year, sadly.

I know its hard to be objective when you are passionate about the team (and trust me, I am passionate about TFC) but we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that our team is not good and to get good, they'll need to overhaul huge chunks of this team again this off season.

My objective assessment of this team is that we are now the 3rd worst team in the league, behind KC and Colorado. People might disagree with that assessment, which is fine but thats who I see it and I've watched alot of MLS soccer this season.

I really hope the major changes that are so desperately needed occur this offseason. among those changes are upgrading our management team. I honestly believe we don't have good enough soccer people running this team.

[Cashcleaner]

From the management sides of things, I can say with absolute certainly that Carver is the best man we could get for the job and I'm happy with the job he's doing. As for Johnston, I'd hate to say it but I think his position is becoming more and more redundant as the days go by. I'm absolutely certain that behind closed doors, we have a situation where Carver is being driven mad trying to get the TFC brass to open up the coffers and sign us some players - notably a DP.

[Roogsy]

Carver has impressed me overall, but there are some things that are of concern to me, such as the Cunny situation and the blowing up at the media. But I guess he is human.

There have also been some strategic things that I have disagreed with, this last game against NY being a prime example.

But overall, he seems competent, which last year we were concerned Mo was over his head in the coaching dept.

So I will tough it out this year and hope next year is better.

But if we don't make the playoffs next year...heads will need to roll.

[Shakes McQueen]

Carver has impressed me overall, but there are some things that are of concern to me, such as the Cunny situation and the blowing up at the media. But I guess he is human.

There have also been some strategic things that I have disagreed with, this last game against NY being a prime example.

But overall, he seems competent, which last year we were concerned Mo was over his head in the coaching dept.

So I will tough it out this year and hope next year is better.

But if we don't make the playoffs next year...heads will need to roll.

This is pretty much where I am.

Mo is in his first year as GM, and Carver is in his first year as coach. It is far too early to start passing judgment on those two, though I think Mo has made some good acquisitions. Keep in mind that, with the exception of Robert (who is talented, but just lazy), pretty much every player Mo has brought in has been at LEAST "above average" (Ricketts, Barrett, Jo Smith, Guevara). The non-performers are largely either hangovers from our expansion season, or rookies/reservists forced off the bench because of injuries, call-ups, whatever.

I'm also excited to see what younger players like Ricketts, Johann Smith, and even Barrett will be able to do, once we get some better support for them.

This off-season/transfer window will be the big "judgment day" for me, as Mo has promised us a DP for next season, and I want to see who he brings in. I also want to gauge some of the other moves he makes, to replace the holes in our roster, both on the bench, and... on the field.

We have a lot of chips to play with this summer, with allocation, draft picks, and an empty DP slot.

- Scott

[Steve]

As someone said already, the more we protest, the less power we have. If we pick our battles correctly, the FO will listen to us, if we go off half-cocked on every little whim of every supporter, the FO will just learn to live with us protesting.

As for this specific issue, I think it's dumb. The player know we aren't happy. Carver makes sure they don't forget it. I don't know about how you were brought up, but think of Carver as the Daddy and us as the Mommy. Carver rips into them and tells them they aren't doing well enough, and we stay behind them and make sure they know they are supported. You can't get the results by only ripping them to pieces, they'll just lose any confidence they might have and constantly second guess themselves (look at Cunny).

Frankly, I like the way it has been going at BMO. We cheer for 90 minutes, give them our all, then, when the game is over, if we lost, we can boo. Let them know, right then, that they dissapointed us, but at the start of the next game, you better believe I will be screaming their names in the intro and giving it my all.

If you truely believe yourself to be the "12th man" act like it. How would you feel if Sutton, disgusted at the way his team was playing, just turned his back on the pitch and let in a goal?

[Barbarez]

As someone said already, the more we protest, the less power we have. If we pick our battles correctly, the FO will listen to us, if we go off half-cocked on every little whim of every supporter, the FO will just learn to live with us protesting.

As for this specific issue, I think it's dumb. The player know we aren't happy. Carver makes sure they don't forget it. I don't know about how you were brought up, but think of Carver as the Daddy and us as the Mommy. Carver rips into them and tells them they aren't doing well enough, and we stay behind them and make sure they know they are supported. You can't get the results by only ripping them to pieces, they'll just lose any confidence they might have and constantly second guess themselves (look at Cunny).

Frankly, I like the way it has been going at BMO. We cheer for 90 minutes, give them our all, then, when the game is over, if we lost, we can boo. Let them know, right then, that they dissapointed us, but at the start of the next game, you better believe I will be screaming their names in the intro and giving it my all.

If you truely believe yourself to be the "12th man" act like it. How would you feel if Sutton, disgusted at the way his team was playing, just turned his back on the pitch and let in a goal?

Idiot. It's sutton's job to keep the ball out. If he did that he deserves to get fired and banned from ever playing again. Anyway, your whole post is ludicrous, keep going to TFC matches with your blind support, take it up the ass from carver, mo and the whole MLSE front office for all I care, but when I'm not pleased with a bunch of heartless sub par football players im gonna let them know.

[Steve]

Idiot. It's sutton's job to keep the ball out. If he did that he deserves to get fired and banned from ever playing again. Anyway, your whole post is ludicrous, keep going to TFC matches with your blind support, take it up the ass from carver, mo and the whole MLSE front office for all I care, but when I'm not pleased with a bunch of heartless sub par football players im gonna let them know.

Sorry, I must have forgotten what seems like common knowledge on this board: MLSE loves to lose. They exist only to lose. They buy sports teams for the sole purpose of ruining dreams. Damned teachers.

[Barbarez]

Sorry, I must have forgotten what seems like common knowledge on this board: MLSE loves to lose. They exist only to lose. They buy sports teams for the sole purpose of ruining dreams. Damned teachers.

You're a fucking loser

[Steve]

You're a fucking loser

touché

[Parkdale]

You're a fucking loser

don't make it personal guys. (not just you Barbz, there's lots of it going on)


I think this thread has gone off the rails beyond the point of my giving a shit.