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View Full Version : Carl Robinson: YOU DECIDE!



The Oz
08-17-2008, 09:43 PM
There has been a lot of talk every match about robbo. HES SHIT, HES A ROCK, HE CANT PASS, HES THE BEST TACKLER. I want you guys to decide, because from the things I've been reading he's our best and worst player every game. Vote and throw in your two cents.

TFC-Tyler
08-17-2008, 09:53 PM
I like the guy, fuck the haters, he gives it his all, and doesnt bitch out.

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-17-2008, 10:01 PM
I remain convinced that anyone who thinks Robbo sucks doesn’t know a thing about football. I’ll let you in on a little secret he’s the real captain of the team.

TFC Cityboy
08-17-2008, 10:01 PM
I like the guy, fuck the haters, he gives it his all, and doesnt bitch out.
Agree- while he is no Makelele, we'd be a damn site worse off without Robbo.

TFC-Tyler
08-17-2008, 10:03 PM
I remain convinced that anyone who thinks Robbo sucks doesn’t know a thing about football. I’ll let you in on a little secret he’s the real captain of the team.
A looooot of people dont understand what he brings to the team in leadership, glad you brought it up.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-17-2008, 10:05 PM
I like the guy, fuck the haters, he gives it his all, and doesnt bitch out.
I am sorry to say this and take it the way you want to but you are totaly wrong my friend...
When robbo tries he;s a not bad midfielder but that hapens once every ten games... the rest of the times he is just a spectator in the middle of the field.. his lobs are dissastrous his passes are too soft and clumsy most of the time.

You guys have to be more critical of the players and not suck on his socks because he is a tfc player...
and although he is our best central medfielder... and without him we's be even worse can;t argue that Imagining harmse in the middle alone gives me shivers.... but he is far from a good midfielder....MY MAIN problem with him is leaving the defencive line on their own and his main priority and duty should be being an extra defender when we are pressed... and not just stand and watch..

Jack
08-17-2008, 10:11 PM
This has nothing to do with sucking on his socks.

Robbo is the leader out there and without him we'd be a lot worse off.

Captain Croatia
08-17-2008, 10:13 PM
How could someone say he is to be kicked off. He is one of our leaders, and best players.

Without him, we would have Harmse? or Rosenlund? playing in his position. Then we'll see the real appreciation for him come out.

poppamidnight
08-17-2008, 10:14 PM
1st - You dont pay for leadership... Any situation a leader always develops

2nd - we all know robbo's strength: the outlet pass....., so i ask, what good is the one perfect outlet to all the other Turnovers deep in our zone where he costs us, and makes out defense scramble....

I like the guy, but im MLS, im spending that $$$ upfront, and going with a Hemming in his position.....

dantdot
08-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Something in the middle. He's an average to below average passer, an above average tackler/ball winner and couldn't hit a shot to save his life. Obviously he brings some good intangibles also.

alexintoronto
08-17-2008, 10:15 PM
Here's to you Mr. Robinson.

I think one of the commentators even said he could easily have been on the All-Star team. May have been the only decent comment all game.

Oblio2
08-17-2008, 10:21 PM
The commentators said how good he is, in the unheralded position of defensive midfield, other players say how good he is, other coaches say how good he is.....So, tell me "Robbo Haters"...Who is wrong?
Robbo is our rock. Without him, we'd be fucked. How about you support a player who gives his all, game in, game out. A player who tackles back, pushes up, passes, leads, defends and commands the midfield....I agree with the comments, if you dont see what he brings, you haven't got a fucking clue. end of.

Kickit09
08-17-2008, 10:21 PM
wow, out of all the people to blame he's the least of our problems. and Hemming over robinson...just wow

poppamidnight
08-17-2008, 10:26 PM
wow, out of all the people to blame he's the least of our problems. and Hemming over robinson...just wow

Read what i said... I was refering to piecing together a MLS team (not TFC),

you give the big $ up front (and a CB),
as a defensive/holding midfielder you could go cheap with a Hemming

TFC-Tyler
08-17-2008, 10:49 PM
I am sorry to say this and take it the way you want to but you are totaly wrong my friend...
When robbo tries he;s a not bad midfielder but that hapens once every ten games... the rest of the times he is just a spectator in the middle of the field.. his lobs are dissastrous his passes are too soft and clumsy most of the time.

You guys have to be more critical of the players and not suck on his socks because he is a tfc player...
and although he is our best central medfielder... and without him we's be even worse can;t argue that Imagining harmse in the middle alone gives me shivers.... but he is far from a good midfielder....MY MAIN problem with him is leaving the defencive line on their own and his main priority and duty should be being an extra defender when we are pressed... and not just stand and watch..
If you read any of my posts you would know, I'm the most critical one on these boards.

Wrong my fucking ass, everything I said was true, he goes all out every game, and anyone who is being critical of him is going out of their way.

Troll
08-17-2008, 10:49 PM
Here's to you Mr. Robinson.

I think one of the commentators even said he could easily have been on the All-Star team. May have been the only decent comment all game.

How bout the other one?

"Toronto is actually up a man, but have been playing very, very poorly. They're looking quite lathargic."

That was pretty much bang on, I thought.

Troll
08-17-2008, 10:51 PM
Robbo is our rock. Without him, we'd be fucked.


Did you even watch the game today? Face it brah, even with Robbo, we're fucked.

king10
08-17-2008, 10:57 PM
Did you even watch the game today? Face it brah, even with Robbo, we're fucked.

with robbo were fucked
w/o robbo were even MORE fucked:)

DigzTFC!
08-17-2008, 11:02 PM
The problem isn't Robbo. Its an identity crisis in the central midfield. We don't have anyone that's an offensive threat at CM and depend on getting the ball out wide. Guevara has been utilized as a forward due to personnel issues but should be playing in the middle of park pulling the strings. Robbo, Harmse and Edu have been there and it makes a defensive unexciting product. Robbo is not a threat going forward at all. He makes passes out to flanks and depends on others to attack defenders. We need a midfield that can supply balls to forwards and it starts at CM. We hardly take any shots during the course of a game, can't get the ball to forwards regularly and wonder why we can't score. Since Amado plays up top all the time, Robbo has been the general in the midfield and offensively that means little production

Amado in the middle....problem half solved

v00d00daddy
08-17-2008, 11:05 PM
what's all of this "without Robbo we'd be fucked". Robbo plays as much as any other guy out there and we're terrible. What does that say about him? Yes..he's a decent holding midfielder. Yes, he works hard every game. Yes, he wins balls from time to time. Yes, he's one of the leaders on the field.

All of that being said...he also loses a lot of balls. Has zero vision and two rocks for feet. Package all of that up with a 300k+ salary and you've got one middle of the road, over priced midfielder.

And his uncontrollable desire to take every free kick quickly is one of the most annoying things about this team.

I would love Robbo if he was paid about half as much and made half as many mistakes.

GhostPK
08-17-2008, 11:06 PM
Robbo is pretty decent at what he does. Although I HATE and I mean HATE (cant say it enough) I HATE it when he lobbs the ball over everyones head because theres only 20 mins left in the game and we are down a goal against a 9 man team. PASS THE FREAKIN BALL MAN! TAKE YOUR TIME AND WORK IT UP!

rant over.

Oblio2
08-17-2008, 11:07 PM
what's all of this "without Robbo we'd be fucked". Robbo plays as much as any other guy out there and we're terrible. What does that say about him? Yes..he's a decent holding midfielder. Yes, he works hard every game. Yes, he wins balls from time to time. Yes, he's one of the leaders on the field.

All of that being said...he also loses a lot of balls. Has zero vision and two rocks for feet. Package all of that up with a 300k+ salary and you've got one middle of the road, over priced midfielder.

And his uncontrollable desire to take every free kick quickly is one of the most annoying things about this team.

I would love Robbo if he was paid about half as much and made half as many mistakes.

Complete pile of crap

TFCREDNWHITE
08-17-2008, 11:19 PM
At this point we'd be sooooo bad if we didn't have him playing for us!! He brings a lot of defense in the mid for us!!

RPB_Brantford_08
08-17-2008, 11:21 PM
He's solid...along with marhall, and wynne is the corner stone at the back.

kitchener-TFC
08-17-2008, 11:22 PM
I remain convinced that anyone who thinks Robbo sucks doesn’t know a thing about football. I’ll let you in on a little secret he’s the real captain of the team.
:canada:Robbo's now going on my jersey!

MartinUtd
08-17-2008, 11:22 PM
You really just have to look back to the Colorado game to answer your question. Unfortunately for every 10 game saving tackles he makes, they will be overshadowed by the one shot he puts sky high.

The Oz
08-18-2008, 12:16 AM
Something in the middle. He's an average to below average passer, an above average tackler/ball winner and couldn't hit a shot to save his life. Obviously he brings some good intangibles also.

This is my personal opinion (crap i should have put that as a choice) he is great defensively yes, but going forward he is quite stagnant, some of his passes make me go "what is he doing?". many a time ive seen robbo make a great tackle, win a ball, and then give it back or throw it away. imho he should stay, but should be put back in more of a defensive role where he doesnt have to really be making plays that start up the offence.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-18-2008, 12:22 AM
what's all of this "without Robbo we'd be fucked". Robbo plays as much as any other guy out there and we're terrible. What does that say about him? Yes..he's a decent holding midfielder. Yes, he works hard every game. Yes, he wins balls from time to time. Yes, he's one of the leaders on the field.

All of that being said...he also loses a lot of balls. Has zero vision and two rocks for feet. Package all of that up with a 300k+ salary and you've got one middle of the road, over priced midfielder.

And his uncontrollable desire to take every free kick quickly is one of the most annoying things about this team.

I would love Robbo if he was paid about half as much and made half as many mistakes.
QFT!!!!

Cashcleaner
08-18-2008, 12:32 AM
So he's either Rock Solid or a disaster? What's with the two extremes? I think Carl plays with a lot of effort and does his job well when it's needed, but I also think he makes some bad mistakes at times (ie: poor passing and movement). I don't think he's a brilliant technical player, but he has quite a bit of energy and motivation.

So I'd say he's pretty good for the league we're in.

Brooker
08-18-2008, 12:55 AM
we look pretty terrible. i cant IMAGINE how pathetic we would look if you took Robbo out of our lineup.

Torcida
08-18-2008, 01:16 AM
Robbo is solid. Too many people who don't know a lick about the game on these boards.

pepher
08-18-2008, 05:59 AM
solid. i'd like to see him keep his shots a little lower (below the crossbar Carl!) but other than that he is a solid two way player. starts us off on attack and always getting back to provide one of his trademark killer slide tackles. it is for this reason I got my Robinson jersey last year.

canadian_bhoy
08-18-2008, 06:27 AM
Carl Robinson's contribution to TFC?

Easy....

Starts with M and ends with VP.

Fact.

dannyd
08-18-2008, 06:46 AM
It goes to show how bad we are playing that Robinson is our most motivating player right now...

The Kingpin
08-18-2008, 06:46 AM
Carl Robinson's contribution to TFC?

Easy....

Starts with M and ends with VP.

Fact.

C'mon CB!! Find the clip from RPL last year when I talk about Robbo... I'd love to post that is threads like this. C'MON!!! :cheers:

canadian_bhoy
08-18-2008, 06:52 AM
C'mon CB!! Find the clip from RPL last year when I talk about Robbo... I'd love to post that is threads like this. C'MON!!! :cheers:

You'd have to get alex to grab it - he has all the archives.

Although I think in that episode I said you were full of crap and that Robbo was useless :D !!!

Truth be told, he was out of position last season and wasn't our strongest player. Now that he's where he should be, he drives the engine of our club and has made our very poor central defending look a lot better than it is.

off topic: Velez was a disgrace yesterday, he's awful. To be honest though, for 2-0, I didn't think we played that poorly...You wonder what the result would have been if Dichio hadn't gone out injured.

The Kingpin
08-18-2008, 06:57 AM
You'd have to get alex to grab it - he has all the archives.

Although I think in that episode I said you were full of crap and that Robbo was useless :D !!!

Truth be told, he was out of position last season and wasn't our strongest player. Now that he's where he should be, he drives the engine of our club and has made our very poor central defending look a lot better than it is.

off topic: Velez was a disgrace yesterday, he's awful. To be honest though, for 2-0, I didn't think we played that poorly...You wonder what the result would have been if Dichio hadn't gone out injured.

Robert was listless as well, it seemed as if he wasn't on the pitch at times. I think James should be playing over Velez at this point, he seems to be much more athletic. If anything we need James to get the experience for next year. Maybe we didn't play poorly, but I do question the heart of this club at times... I'm wondering what the problem is....

dannyd
08-18-2008, 08:12 AM
Robinson gets stuck in and wins balls and plays with heart, which is more than I can say about most of our players. However, his attacking play is too lateral and telegraphed and is really hurting us. Once in a while... just maybe... if you're listening Carl... please... run with the ball upfield and try quick give and go's... just to mix it up a bit? Keep the defenders guessing. Everyone knows as soon as you get the ball, it's gonna be passed over to the winger. You can't do that 100% of the time. Mix it up.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 08:30 AM
Wow...so lopsided in favour of Robbo.

No wonder we're not going to make the playoffs....we're obviously content with mediocrity.

I should start another poll:

Which DM would you rather have:

Brian Carroll, Columbus
Ricardo Clark, Houston
Shalrie Joseph, New England
Logan Pause, Chicago
Paulo Nagamura, Chivas
Kyle Beckerman, Real Salt Lake
Pablo Mastroeni, Colorado
Clyde Simms, DC United
Carl Robinson, Toronto

Where does Robbo rank there....if anyone tells me top 5...they're cocked off their rocker.

(and this is not even getting into a debate about salary...I'll leave that for another day)

brad
08-18-2008, 08:54 AM
Robbo is solid. Too many people who don't know a lick about the game on these boards.

Agree. And people also need to set their expectations accordingly. Robbo's passing can be a bit suspect at times, but that is why he is in the MLS. If his passing was better, he'd be playing in the EPL.

Parkdale
08-18-2008, 08:55 AM
Wow...so lopsided in favour of Robbo.

No wonder we're not going to make the playoffs....we're obviously content with mediocrity.

I should start another poll:

Which DM would you rather have:

Brian Carroll, Columbus
Ricardo Clark, Houston
Shalrie Joseph, New England
Logan Pause, Chicago
Paulo Nagamura, Chivas
Kyle Beckerman, Real Salt Lake
Pablo Mastroeni, Colorado
Clyde Simms, DC United
Carl Robinson, Toronto

Where does Robbo rank there....if anyone tells me top 5...they're cocked off their rocker.

(and this is not even getting into a debate about salary...I'll leave that for another day)



Shalrie Joseph, New England

hands down one of the most talented guys in the league.
He's one of those players you want to hate because he's
always in the right spot to kill our plays, but really...
we'd love to have him on our team. Dude's a natural talent.

side note: I didn't know his first name was Shalrie.

dannyd
08-18-2008, 08:59 AM
Shalrie Joseph, New England

hands down one of the most talented guys in the league.
He's one of those players you want to hate because he's
always in the right spot to kill our plays, but really...
we'd love to have him on our team. Dude's a natural talent.

side note: I didn't know his first name was Shalrie.

Beckerman and Simms ain't bad either...

rocker
08-18-2008, 09:01 AM
Agree. And people also need to set their expectations accordingly. Robbo's passing can be a bit suspect at times, but that is why he is in the MLS. If his passing was better, he'd be playing in the EPL.

and people barely see most of the other DM's in the league.
People just hear the reputations of the other guys, but sometimes when you go over to Big Soccer and read the other teams' boards, you hear criticisms of those guys too.

mclaren
08-18-2008, 09:11 AM
He is neither rock solid nor a disaster - he goes from excellent to missing in action, depending how he feels on the day.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 09:13 AM
and people barely see most of the other DM's in the league.
People just hear the reputations of the other guys, but sometimes when you go over to Big Soccer and read the other teams' boards, you hear criticisms of those guys too.

Ok...here's some more anecdotal evidence, but evidence nevertheless:

Here is the latest midfield ranking of MLS players from FIFA 09's most current database.......before you laugh, it's obviously not a perfect list (it certainly has flaws)...but it's a list constantly monitored by many many reviewers who watch MLS all the time and are very knowledgeable about the league and its players as a whole...and thus provides at least its some sort of unbias barometer for seeing where Carl Robinson ranks.....

I've bulleted all the DM roles in red.

http://c.imagehost.org/dl/3f16b8bd1ba87eadd732fea61dff04b3/48a98335/0988/Mids.bmp


Hmmmm...interesting. Carl Robinson is not first.....shocking.

Once the new update comes out, Im almost certain that even mids like Carroll, Simms, and Pause will be ahead of Carl Robinson.

brad
08-18-2008, 09:15 AM
and people barely see most of the other DM's in the league.
People just hear the reputations of the other guys, but sometimes when you go over to Big Soccer and read the other teams' boards, you hear criticisms of those guys too.

And when the do see them, it's generally against our less than stellar midfield - which doesn't take a top MLS DM to shut down.

Watch how these guys play against some of the better teams in the league and pass judgment then.

alexintoronto
08-18-2008, 09:18 AM
How bout the other one?

"Toronto is actually up a man, but have been playing very, very poorly. They're looking quite lathargic."

That was pretty much bang on, I thought.

ok ok - the only decent one I wanted to hear.

:(

Technorgasm
08-18-2008, 09:18 AM
HE is ROCK SOLID!

- when comparing how he does his job position on the field to how other members of our squad deal with their reponsibilities.

- when you think about our squad WITHOUT him

HE IS A DISASTER (way too harsh wording, I prefer. . he is just. . OK) -

- when comparing him to others in the league at his position

Jack
08-18-2008, 09:40 AM
Ok...here's some more anecdotal evidence, but evidence nevertheless:

Here is the latest midfield ranking of MLS players from FIFA 09's most current database.......before you laugh, it's obviously not a perfect list (it certainly has flaws)...but it's a list constantly monitored by many many reviewers who watch MLS all the time and are very knowledgeable about the league and its players as a whole...and thus provides at least its some sort of unbias barometer for seeing where Carl Robinson ranks.....

I've bulleted all the DM roles in red.




Hmmmm...interesting. Carl Robinson is not first.....shocking.

Once the new update comes out, Im almost certain that even mids like Carroll, Simms, and Pause will be ahead of Carl Robinson.

You did not just use one of the most poorly-researched video games to try to prove your point. Please tell me you didn't.

Dude...FIFA?

Come on...

If a player is not well-known in FIFA, he gets a crap rating. If a player plays on a crap team, even if he is a good talent, they rate him low. (This happens a lot). We finished in last place last year.

I place absolutely no stock in FIFA video game ratings. Next proof please...

H Bomb
08-18-2008, 09:48 AM
Thank god this poll is being dominated by the one end. To the 14 (so far) people who have ranked him a disaster, you don't know what you're talking about. Everyone has a right to an opinion but not all opinions have a right to be heard.

Rawkus_420
08-18-2008, 09:51 AM
I remain convinced that anyone who thinks Robbo sucks doesn’t know a thing about football. I’ll let you in on a little secret he’s the real captain of the team.


Agreed 100%, first prize....he is our best footballer.

S_D
08-18-2008, 09:54 AM
I guess the gamers haven't watched Edu over the past season....ranked higher than Robinson? 'nuff said

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 09:57 AM
You did not just use one of the most poorly-researched video games to try to prove your point. Please tell me you didn't.

Dude...FIFA?

Come on...

If a player is not well-known in FIFA, he gets a crap rating. If a player plays on a crap team, even if he is a good talent, they rate him low. (This happens a lot). We finished in last place last year.

I place absolutely no stock in FIFA video game ratings. Next proof please...

That's not actually the way it works....believe me, I'm a reviewer for EA. It's has one of the most in-depth database for any statistical comaprison...let alone...video games.

You're just basing your opinion on preconceived notions and conjecture.

And secondly, what ranking do you disagree with on that list....which player from which ranking is so offensive to you.

Lastly, I prefaced my post that you should take the rankings with a grain of salt. I merely provided it as some sort of outside barometer.

brad
08-18-2008, 10:07 AM
I place absolutely no stock in FIFA video game ratings. Next proof please...

Not to mention that FIFA player ratings are provided by volunteers who submit their ratings in to EA.

EDIT: I see you are aware of that, being a reviewer. Had not read that far.

Jack
08-18-2008, 11:03 AM
I was also a Fifa reviewer, though I don't participate anymore.

I know how the process works. I also know that often their database relies on the opinion of a very small number of people whose knowledge of players and the players abilities could be considered questionable at best.

If you don't watch a player regularly over a long period of time, how can you rate him?

I don't watch enough of those other players on the list to effectively rate them.

One of the reasons I stopped doing the ratings is because, quite simply, the amount of time needed to put in watching the nuances and details of someone's game to effectively rate ONE player, let alone several teams or a whole league, is not time I have.

Highlights, or just watching one or even two games, is no way to rate a player. Imagine if you had only watched two Jarrod Smith matches from early this season? I bet his rating would be a lot higher than it should be.

That's the fallacy of the rating system in that game and in any sports video game. So again, please don't try to back your arguments up with FIFA stats...it's laughable.

Roogsy
08-18-2008, 11:09 AM
I second that...I was a Fifa reviewer as well. And we know how much people around here value my opinion! :p

Roogsy
08-18-2008, 11:11 AM
Anyways...when it's pretty much widely accepted that the team is worse off without a player, then usually, the money is indicative of that. If we are complaining that the money is too much but still agree that the team is in a better position because of him, then it really is a subjective opinion about the monetary value of a player. Considering what decent players really cost, I have no problems paying Robbo what he earns. Lord knows players who get paid much less do a much worse job...(Harmse anyone?)

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 11:14 AM
I was also a Fifa reviewer, though I don't participate anymore.

I know how the process works. I also know that often their database relies on the opinion of a very small number of people whose knowledge of players and the players abilities could be considered questionable at best.

If you don't watch a player regularly over a long period of time, how can you rate him?

I don't watch enough of those other players on the list to effectively rate them.

One of the reasons I stopped doing the ratings is because, quite simply, the amount of time needed to put in watching the nuances and details of someone's game to effectively rate ONE player, let alone several teams or a whole league, is not time I have.

Highlights, or just watching one or even two games, is no way to rate a player. Imagine if you had only watched two Jarrod Smith matches from early this season? I bet his rating would be a lot higher than it should be.

That's the fallacy of the rating system in that game and in any sports video game. So again, please don't try to back your arguments up with FIFA stats...it's laughable.

Once again...like I have said before...that is conjecture.

Like I have also stated before...it's clearly a system with flaws and requires continual improvement....but really, is there a better barometer that exists that can be used to prove or disprove a player's quality, spefically with regards to DMs, for whom statistics are so scarce?

I don't want to change the topic or debate of thread here, I was merely providing the list as an outside perspective to the argument (and not to be taken as some sort of golden scripture). Nothing more, nothing less.

Bobo
08-18-2008, 11:16 AM
I've hated on Robbo mannnnny times in the past but strictly as a DM, he is a very good player for this league. Between the two options I chose rock solid, though he really isn't.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 11:19 AM
Anyways...when it's pretty much widely accepted that the team is worse off without a player, then usually, the money is indicative of that. If we are complaining that the money is too much but still agree that the team is in a better position because of him, then it really is a subjective opinion about the monetary value of a player. Considering what decent players really cost, I have no problems paying Robbo what he earns. Lord knows players who get paid much less do a much worse job...(Harmse anyone?)

We are worse off without Danny Dichio....we know this, we can prove this with numbers and with observation.

No one knows what we'd be like without Carl Robinson on the field, so making this statement is kind of unfounded.

Sure, you can presuppose that we'd be even worse off (which is not really far to fall) without Carl Robinson....but who really knows how the dynamics of our on-field play would change.

If Carl Robinson is such a fantastic leader...where was he yesterday. Just because he tells the referee to f*ck off everytime he's cautioned, or commits a foul....how does that make him a leader. Wow....he yells a lot and waves his arms like he's commanding everyone on the field. A real leader leads through his play...and by default should be a good footballer in all aspects of the game (just my opinion).

Roogsy
08-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Dichio isn't even a question. Have you noticed how quiet the Dichio haters have been? Here on the board AND at the games. It's hilarious...

Wooster_TFC
08-18-2008, 11:29 AM
We are worse off without Danny Dichio....we know this, we can prove this with numbers and with observation.

No one knows what we'd be like without Carl Robinson on the field, so making this statement is kind of unfounded.

Sure, you can presuppose that we'd be even worse off (which is not really far to fall) without Carl Robinson....but who really knows how the dynamics of our on-field play would change.

If Carl Robinson is such a fantastic leader...where was he yesterday. Just because he tells the referee to f*ck off everytime he's cautioned, or commits a foul....how does that make him a leader. Wow....he yells a lot and waves his arms like he's commanding everyone on the field. A real leader leads through his play...and by default should be a good footballer in all aspects of the game (just my opinion).

And there's the problem. A leader is not someone who's good at all aspects of the game. Yes, they have to lead by example, but they don't have to lead in all aspects. A lot of keepers are viewed as leaders in their clubhouse, does this mean because they can't score that the strikers won't follow?

I also have a hard time believing the Fifa rankings since Robbo's listed as a CM and will probably get hurt more on the offensive side, whereas he's good as a DM.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 11:42 AM
And there's the problem. A leader is not someone who's good at all aspects of the game. Yes, they have to lead by example, but they don't have to lead in all aspects. A lot of keepers are viewed as leaders in their clubhouse, does this mean because they can't score that the strikers won't follow?

I also have a hard time believing the Fifa rankings since Robbo's listed as a CM and will probably get hurt more on the offensive side, whereas he's good as a DM.

Well, whatever...but as I always predicate......the bottom line is Robinson is not spectacular, he's not a disaster...this poll is flawed....he's a useful defensive player who is being overrated by supporters because of the general poor play of our entire team as a whole. That's my final word on the issue.

Limani_Ole
08-18-2008, 12:13 PM
so lucky to have him.. the boy anchors the back for us with all the rookies we got..
when you loose 2-0 with a man down you cant really blame any one individual.. the whole team stunk especially the ones playing in the last third..

NateDoGG
08-18-2008, 12:13 PM
sometimes hes on sometimes hes off
its hit and miss with robinson, and goes knows he is the last person on the team who should take a shot at the net, worst takes ive ever seen, my grandmammy could shoot a better ball then carl

H Bomb
08-18-2008, 12:20 PM
sometimes hes on sometimes hes off
its hit and miss with robinson, and goes knows he is the last person on the team who should take a shot at the net, worst takes ive ever seen, my grandmammy could shoot a better ball then carl

Now I'll definitely agree that Carl can't shoot. He's always trying to side foot it. Harmse was worse IMO but still you're right Carl is a below average shooter.

Markham_RPB
08-18-2008, 12:22 PM
sometimes hes on sometimes hes off
its hit and miss with robinson, and goes knows he is the last person on the team who should take a shot at the net, worst takes ive ever seen, my grandmammy could shoot a better ball then carl


But mate, thats not his job. Thus he takes very minimal shots. I know however when they do they reach the top of 115 behind the shot. However HIS job is to clog the middle of the pitch, to be there to help out the defense, and to control the ball and send it moving forward. He is rock solid out there , helping our "defense" and continues to gain the respect out of many out there for being a centre influence on the pitch. His leadership is second to none ( brennan) and is obviously a great choice for a co-captain. This poll simply blows my mind that we would even consider him to be SHITE, when he is ROCK SOLID for this team !

joel
08-18-2008, 12:28 PM
I can't see how you can ever say a player is totally one way or the other. He's a great tackler and positionally good. His passes and shooting could use some work. Where is Michael Carrick when you need him.

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 12:38 PM
So Robbo is our MVP and leader and a potential all-star in this league? Not in my books.

He plays as a 5th defender. He wins balls but does nothing with them once won.

All of this, "We'd be much worse off without him" is bullshit. If Robinson is nothing else, he's consistent. Whether you like what he does or not, he does it pretty much the same in every game. This shows that this team does not rise or fall with the tide that is Carl Robinson. He is a piece of a big dysfunctional puzzle.

When our other mids are playing well and we have a striker (or strikers) that are healthy and scoring, TFC wins.

When our mids are playing like shit, suspended, AND we have a shitty and young striker TFC loses.

What does Carl Robinson have to do with either situation? He was on the field when we were tearing it up at the start of this season and he's on the field now when we are the worst team in the league.

Carl Robinson is good at his position but he is by no means our best player and not even close to our MVP.

So I ask you.....how can an MVP have such little impact on a team?

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 12:41 PM
And for those of you who say stuff like:

"If you don't like Robbo you don't know shit about football"

Grow up. This is all just opinion. Saying shit like that just shows that you can't participate in a level headed discussion and everytime you say it your opinion become more and more irrelevant.

TFCREDNWHITE
08-18-2008, 12:49 PM
Did any of you watch the same game on Sunday!?!?!

our WHOLE entire team is shit for the last couple of months!! The whole team is a disaster since JUNE!!!! Nobody can pass!!! Nobody can SHOOT!! Possession is LOST constantly!! MLS SUCKS, TFC better get their shit together fast!! Second year or not, the run of play is GARBAGE!! We were a man up for a full half and couldn't PASS never mind score!!! I'm so livid, i'm steaming right now!!

I would rather watch League 2 in England!!! The whole MLS needs to be overhauled!!

Bloor West FC
08-18-2008, 12:52 PM
Robbo is great!!!! He is totally a leader for TFC!!

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 01:05 PM
Ok...here's some more anecdotal evidence, but evidence nevertheless:

Here is the latest midfield ranking of MLS players from FIFA 09's most current database.......before you laugh, it's obviously not a perfect list (it certainly has flaws)...but it's a list constantly monitored by many many reviewers who watch MLS all the time and are very knowledgeable about the league and its players as a whole...and thus provides at least its some sort of unbias barometer for seeing where Carl Robinson ranks.....

I've bulleted all the DM roles in red.

Hmmmm...interesting. Carl Robinson is not first.....shocking.

Once the new update comes out, Im almost certain that even mids like Carroll, Simms, and Pause will be ahead of Carl Robinson.
Oh my god.

First of all, who said he was first in the league of all mids? Nobody.

Secondly, you have officially lost what little credibility you had by posting those ratings. FIFA rankings are a fucking joke, and everyone knows it. You can talk all you want about how well you know the system and how much it works. Bull shit, you could pull names out of a hat and it would look better than that.

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 01:08 PM
All of this, "We'd be much worse off without him" is bullshit. If Robinson is nothing else, he's consistent. Whether you like what he does or not, he does it pretty much the same in every game. This shows that this team does not rise or fall with the tide that is Carl Robinson. He is a piece of a big dysfunctional puzzle.
Speaking of bullshit.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 01:14 PM
Oh my god.

First of all, who said he was first in the league of all mids? Nobody.

Secondly, you have officially lost what little credibility you had by posting those ratings. FIFA rankings are a fucking joke, and everyone knows it. You can talk all you want about how well you know the system and how much it works. Bull shit, you could pull names out of a hat and it would look better than that.

Why are you getting so upset?

Is it because you are illiterate and did not read the initial intent of what I posted?....probably has something to do with it.

And second of all....for the last time....you are basing your notions of the FIFA rating system on presuppositions and conjecture....get that through your head. Alot is just based on opinion obviously, otherwise why the f*ck are we all here discussing the merits or negatives of Carl Robinson's attributes. But at least this list was compiled with a little more thought, time and knowledgeable people than the people apparently posting in this forum.

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 01:17 PM
Speaking of bullshit.

I love posts like this^^^^^^

Hahaha. Well played. You've changed my mind. The only person who has a greater soccer mind than Carl Robinson is TFC-Tyler.

tlear
08-18-2008, 01:17 PM
It is funny that people bitch about one of the few player that are actually doing what they are SUPPOSED to. Win the ball, break up the build up.. thats what Robbo is payed to do and that is what he does CONSISTENTLY, if we could get few more guys to perform as well we would have a contender team here.

poppamidnight
08-18-2008, 01:30 PM
Maybe Robbo looked worse than usuall as of late cuz he had cuz a clueless player alongside him in harms (therfore worried about covering his arse)....
..I'd give him that....

But IF (a big IF) robbo does need someone along side him in that defensive mid role:

WHY THE HELL DOESNT BRENNAN ENTER INTO THE DEBATE....

Jim Brennan IS a MF... don't forget that people... Mo Johnson tried to force him into a role as defender....

Jimmy has said countless time's he prefers playing up a little more....

So, if you still want that defensive aspect, I ask you all, would this not the better backline to go with:

________Sutton________
Wynne__Marshall__Attakora
____Robbo______Jimmy____

I dont know why we stopped debating the fact that Jimmy is at his best when he's playing his TRUE position....

...since when did "playing there for necessity" become "the norm"

Limani_Ole
08-18-2008, 01:34 PM
And for those of you who say stuff like:

"If you don't like Robbo you don't know shit about football"

Grow up. This is all just opinion. Saying shit like that just shows that you can't participate in a level headed discussion and everytime you say it your opinion become more and more irrelevant.

well your opinion is lacking.. at best

Robbo's job is not to score goals.. its to play a DM.. thats tackle, stop attacks, and distribute to the attacking mid or wings to create the goals..

thats what he does.. its not an easy job.. and requires good judgment and experience.. at the moment we wouldn't even have anyone on the bench to replace him.. so why even bring it up??

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 01:49 PM
well your opinion is lacking.. at best

Robbo's job is not to score goals.. its to play a DM.. thats tackle, stop attacks, and distribute to the attacking mid or wings to create the goals..

thats what he does.. its not an easy job.. and requires good judgment and experience.. at the moment we wouldn't even have anyone on the bench to replace him.. so why even bring it up??


First of all I didn't bring up replacing Robbo. I didn't create this thread. There should have been a choice in between along the lines of:

He is okay. He's not TFC's main problem.

That's the one I would have chosen.

Thanks for pointing out that my opinion is lacking although it wasn't necessary. For the record, I think your opinion is right up to snuff...not lacking in the least.

As for Robbo, he is what he is. A serviceable over paid defensive midfielder.

Please take a look at this list and tell me how you think he ranks among the people close to him on the list. (Robert exluded of course)

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/08/report-hello-huckerby-adios-reyna-mls.html

How in god's name can he be making more money than Dwayne DeRosario. It's not Robbo's fault that he's overpaid but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is.

BTW..he's the 15th highest paid player in the ENTIRE LEAGUE and not even close to the best defensive mid in the league.

This somehow equates to TFC MVP and saviour to some on this board. Give your heads a shake people. Expect a little more from this organization, from the front office, all the way down to our glorious defensive mid.

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 02:14 PM
Why are you getting so upset?

Is it because you are illiterate and did not read the initial intent of what I posted?....probably has something to do with it.

And second of all....for the last time....you are basing your notions of the FIFA rating system on presuppositions and conjecture....get that through your head. Alot is just based on opinion obviously, otherwise why the f*ck are we all here discussing the merits or negatives of Carl Robinson's attributes. But at least this list was compiled with a little more thought, time and knowledgeable people than the people apparently posting in this forum.
Who is getting upset? I was pointing out the complete and utter stupidity in your argument. I must have offended you, since according to you I'm 'illiterate' (whine more).

The ratings are stupid, and completely off base. And before you go telling me and others that we dont know how the ratings are done (too late), you fail again, I have friends that currently work at EA Burnaby, and mutual aquantences at EA Montreal. The ratings are purely opinion, and a lot less thought than you think. As one friend of mine, who worked on NHL 08 last year (not sure about 09) basically explained, if you expect the ratings to be accurate, you're looking in the wrong place. And that's for NHL which does a much better job than FIFA.

Fact is, you used FIFA ratings as a main part of your argument, thinking they held weight, when all it did was negatively affect your point, as the ratings are a joke.

Oh, and why did we trade Cunningham, our best player according to FIFA 08?

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 02:19 PM
This somehow equates to TFC MVP and saviour to some on this board. Give your heads a shake people. Expect a little more from this organization, from the front office, all the way down to our glorious defensive mid.
How is this any different from just saying "you dont know shit about football" that you hate so much?

Telling us to give our heads a shake, because your opinion is apparently more valuable than ours, is no different than telling someone they dont know shit, and their opinion is less valuable.

Add to that some glaring holes in your 'argument,' (Robinson is certainly the best at his position on the team, yet we arent a better team with him in rather than out? What?) and you should be able to see why many people seem to argue.

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 02:37 PM
How is this any different from just saying "you dont know shit about football" that you hate so much?

Telling us to give our heads a shake, because your opinion is apparently more valuable than ours, is no different than telling someone they dont know shit, and their opinion is less valuable.

Add to that some glaring holes in your 'argument,' (Robinson is certainly the best at his position on the team, yet we arent a better team with him in rather than out? What?) and you should be able to see why many people seem to argue.


I'm just asking people to be a little more objective. I'm not saying that you, or anyone else, know nothing about soccer.

He is the best defensive mid on this team..but so what. That does not make him our MVP and does not make him an MLS all star.

My point or 'argument", as you put it, is this:

Carl Robinson is a decent defensive mid.
Carl Robinson is paid too much for what he provides TFC.
Carl Robinson is NOT the most valuable player on TFC.
Carl Robinson is NOT an MLS All-Star.
Carl Robinson is NOT a mid-fielder at all, in my opinion of course
Carl Robinson is a 5th defender.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm just asking people to be a little more objective. I'm not saying that you, or anyone else, know nothing about soccer.

He is the best defensive mid on this team..but so what. That does not make him our MVP and does not make him an MLS all star.

My point or 'argument", as you put it, is this:

Carl Robinson is a decent defensive mid.
Carl Robinson is paid too much for what he provides TFC.
Carl Robinson is NOT the most valuable player on TFC.
Carl Robinson is NOT an MLS All-Star.
Carl Robinson is NOT a mid-fielder at all, in my opinion of course
Carl Robinson is a 5th defender.

You'll never get these points across...I've been trying to make them for the better part of 1 and half years.

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 02:43 PM
You'll never get these points across...I've been trying to make them for the better part of 1 and half years.
Yes, well, as you now realize using FIFA certainly wont help, and explains why no one has listened.

I at least respect what voodo says.

Voodo, if you dont mind me asking, who do you feel is the TFC MVP? I personally dont think it is Robinson, but I'm still curious.

LucaGol
08-18-2008, 02:48 PM
Who is getting upset? I was pointing out the complete and utter stupidity in your argument. I must have offended you, since according to you I'm 'illiterate' (whine more).

The ratings are stupid, and completely off base. And before you go telling me and others that we dont know how the ratings are done (too late), you fail again, I have friends that currently work at EA Burnaby, and mutual aquantences at EA Montreal. The ratings are purely opinion, and a lot less thought than you think. As one friend of mine, who worked on NHL 08 last year (not sure about 09) basically explained, if you expect the ratings to be accurate, you're looking in the wrong place. And that's for NHL which does a much better job than FIFA.

Fact is, you used FIFA ratings as a main part of your argument, thinking they held weight, when all it did was negatively affect your point, as the ratings are a joke.

Oh, and why did we trade Cunningham, our best player according to FIFA 08?

I think you have a mental deficiency....what else would they be if not based on purely opinion.

Secondly, Im not founding my argument on FIFA ratings for a stupid video game....I've simply brought them up to show that a few other people that exist in the world, other than me, who follow soccer...place Carl Robinson pretty low amongst a list of fellow MLS players.

Of course as you so intelligently pointed out, thats there opinion....but nevertheless an opinion of several MLS followers nevertheless.

I've stated on many many numerous occasions why Carl Robinson is overrated, I don't have to place my faith in what FIFA 09 has to say about it to validate my points.

Limani_Ole
08-18-2008, 02:48 PM
How in god's name can he be making more money than Dwayne DeRosario. It's not Robbo's fault that he's overpaid but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is.

BTW..he's the 15th highest paid player in the ENTIRE LEAGUE and not even close to the best defensive mid in the league.

This somehow equates to TFC MVP and saviour to some on this board. Give your heads a shake people. Expect a little more from this organization, from the front office, all the way down to our glorious defensive mid.

ahh he looks good where he is actually.. DeRo is underpaid and has always been.. you can ask anyone thats followed MLS pre-toronto..

The only mid I would take over him is Joseph from NE.. and thats it..
Toronto has the best GA in BMO.. while the worst when away.. and thats because the ball gets played in our end all the time..
sure he is gonna long ball it to releave some of the pressure..
not only that.. if the mids dont make themselves available he has no other choice.. thats what a took out of it..

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 02:57 PM
Voodo, if you dont mind me asking, who do you feel is the TFC MVP? I personally dont think it is Robinson, but I'm still curious.

It's hard to pick an MVP when the team is playing so poorly because every player has made some bad mistakes this year. If I had to pick it would probably be Sutton. He's got 5 or 6 clean sheets in 15 games this year and has kept TFC in a lot of games when they didn't deserve to be. That being said...(and it's hard for me to say this being a keeper in my past life), he makes a few too many basic errors. He is brave and great in the air. He is great at challenging shooter but not very good at handling shots right and him and he's terrible at distributing the ball from his hand or from the goal kick spot.

If I had to pick it would be Sutton but I would rather forgoe naming an MVP at a time when TFC hasn't shown anything for 2 months.

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Of course as you so intelligently pointed out, thats there opinion....but nevertheless an opinion of several MLS followers nevertheless.

I've stated on many many numerous occasions why Carl Robinson is overrated, I don't have to place my faith in what FIFA 09 has to say about it to validate my points.
Ah yes, as this poll shows, many many MLS followers think Robbo sucks.

Really? Because earlier in this thread, it seemed you did.

But go ahead, keep calling me mental and illiterate, whatever helps you feel relevant!

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 03:01 PM
ahh he looks good where he is actually.. DeRo is underpaid and has always been.. you can ask anyone thats followed MLS pre-toronto..

The only mid I would take over him is Joseph from NE.. and thats it..
Toronto has the best GA in BMO.. while the worst when away.. and thats because the ball gets played in our end all the time..
sure he is gonna long ball it to releave some of the pressure..
not only that.. if the mids dont make themselves available he has no other choice.. thats what a took out of it..

I agree that DeRo deserves more but also note that he is in the top 20 in the league in salary. That's where he belongs. Robbo does not belong there, I'm sorry to say.

I think a defensive mid has to at least make his pressence known in the attacking third of the field. He has to ensure that he is at least an option and that a defender HAS to mark him. Robbo tends to hang out near center and wait for his teammates to give up the ball so that he can defend again. I'm not asking that he score goals. I'm just not content with him being a 5th defender.

v00d00daddy
08-18-2008, 03:04 PM
Ah yes, as this poll shows, many many MLS followers think Robbo sucks.


To be fair, this poll is seriously flawed. Given the choice I don't think everyone would have said that he's "ROCK SOLID". He's okay and not TFC's main problem right now. I'd be interested to know how many people think he deserves to be the 15th highest paid player in MLS.

TFC-Tyler
08-18-2008, 03:07 PM
To be fair, this poll is seriously flawed. Given the choice I don't think everyone would have said that he's "ROCK SOLID". He's okay and not TFC's main problem right now. I'd be interested to know how many people think he deserves to be the 15th highest paid player in MLS.
True, the options were questionable, and if they were realistic it would be a slightly different result.

MadMike
08-18-2008, 07:58 PM
To be fair, this poll is seriously flawed. Given the choice I don't think everyone would have said that he's "ROCK SOLID". He's okay and not TFC's main problem right now. I'd be interested to know how many people think he deserves to be the 15th highest paid player in MLS.
Thank you !!!

jloome
08-18-2008, 08:31 PM
He's one dimension, but that's Guevara's problem; he's supposed to be our attacking central midfielder. Robbo's a good defender, middling at everything else. Money's all relative as I wouldn't take him at that salary in MLS (the cap is reeeeeeallllly low) but I'd take him twice for that in the Championship.

v00d00daddy
08-19-2008, 11:11 AM
He's one dimension, but that's Guevara's problem; he's supposed to be our attacking central midfielder. Robbo's a good defender, middling at everything else. Money's all relative as I wouldn't take him at that salary in MLS (the cap is reeeeeeallllly low) but I'd take him twice for that in the Championship.

Unfortunately TFC don't play in the Championship.

jloome
08-19-2008, 11:24 AM
Yeah, I know. I agree with you and Luca. Sorry folks, you all see a decent player and think he's a superstar because 90% of the rest of the team plays with less heart than they had in high school.

But 1) He's a decent DM. He's not a dominant one. There are only really two of those in this league, Shalrie Joseph and (most of the time) Pabloe Mastroianni. They can play both ways, pass, break up play and dominate the midfield flow by reading the game.

Carl Robinson is a good tackler. His positioning is solid and sometime excellent, and he breaks up about two-thirds of what comes through him, which is why teams only come through him about twice per half. But he can't cover the whole pitch and is a bit one-dimensional. I say the latter with caution because I have to believe his work ethic exudes some leadership, but he certainly hasn't rallied the boys on the field (and neither has Jimmy B). He hasn't changed his own pespective -- as quoted in his own column -- that the team is working really hard and just not getting breaks. In fact, they stink and he should be calling out the lack of heart, discipline and tenacity.

He's a good defender. What else do people want? Anyone who thinks he's dominating games isn't keeping much of a watch on how we've done lately, because we're not dominating anything.

That's why it would be so hard to pick an MVP. I'd have to pick either Ricketts or Brennan, because they're our two hardest workers. Sutton has six shutouts, but his tendency to spill long shots has also cost us two games.

canadian_bhoy
08-19-2008, 11:31 AM
Yeah, I know. I agree with you and Luca. Sorry folks, you all see a decent player and think he's a superstar because 90% of the rest of the team plays with less heart than they had in high school.

But 1) He's a decent DM. He's not a dominant one. There are only really two of those in this league, Shalrie Joseph and (most of the time) Pabloe Mastroianni. They can play both ways, pass, break up play and dominate the midfield flow by reading the game.

Carl Robinson is a good tackler. His positioning is solid and sometime excellent, and he breaks up about two-thirds of what comes through him, which is why teams only come through him about twice per half. But he can't cover the whole pitch and is a bit one-dimensional. I say the latter with caution because I have to believe his work ethic exudes some leadership, but he certainly hasn't rallied the boys on the field (and neither has Jimmy B). He hasn't changed his own pespective -- as quoted in his own column -- that the team is working really hard and just not getting breaks. In fact, they stink and he should be calling out the lack of heart, discipline and tenacity.

He's a good defender. What else do people want? Anyone who thinks he's dominating games isn't keeping much of a watch on how we've done lately, because we're not dominating anything.

That's why it would be so hard to pick an MVP. I'd have to pick either Ricketts or Brennan, because they're our two hardest workers. Sutton has six shutouts, but his tendency to spill long shots has also cost us two games.

Hey buddy - I don't know who you think you are. But if you think you can just swan in here with your well thought out posts and rational opinions/ideas you've got another thing coming. There is no place in this forum for that sort of malarky - so take it elsewhere! :D

Fire Mo! and Carver! and Jesus!

v00d00daddy
08-19-2008, 11:36 AM
That's why it would be so hard to pick an MVP. I'd have to pick either Ricketts or Brennan, because they're our two hardest workers. Sutton has six shutouts, but his tendency to spill long shots has also cost us two games.

Yeah. I got a soft spot for Sutton cause he's a keeper. TFC haven't had an MVP this year. They shouldn't be handing out man of the match honours either, while they're playing so bad.

Whoop
08-19-2008, 11:36 AM
Honestly, I would not award a Player of the Year award to any of these guys this year... at the moment.

There is still some games left to be played, but to award that, no one deserves it.

Rawkus_420
08-19-2008, 11:52 AM
I guess the gamers haven't watched Edu over the past season....ranked higher than Robinson? 'nuff said


you're retarded, robbo is the only guy on our team who will go in hard for a crunching tackle. gamers dont know fuck all about anything.

jloome
08-19-2008, 12:31 PM
Hey buddy - I don't know who you think you are. But if you think you can just swan in here with your well thought out posts and rational opinions/ideas you've got another thing coming. There is no place in this forum for that sort of malarky - so take it elsewhere! :D

Fire Mo! and Carver! and Jesus!

Every week or so my rationality and the unwillingness of others to accept it makes me exceedingly irrational. This is usually followed by a fine bout of pounding my head against the cold tile of the bathroom wall. Then all is well.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-19-2008, 12:49 PM
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0052da76f9.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

v00d00daddy
08-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Just a little FYI.

Now that Robert is gone, and likely out of MLS, it makes Robbo the 14th highest paid player in the league and the highest paid in Toronto. (assuming that TFC are only picking up a portion of Ruiz's contract).

I guess he MUST be the MVP. He's getting paid like it. I think guys like Greg Sutton and Jim Brennan might have something to say about your MVP nomination.