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View Full Version : Is needing a striker really the issue?



Shakes McQueen
08-17-2008, 07:05 PM
I posted this in the game thread, and then decided it might be a good topic for general conversation, since a lot has been made of our apparent striker woes:

I'm honestly starting to think a striker isn't really our problem. The last few games, our forwards have barely even managed to get their foot on the ball in the attacking third. And yet, every time they do, they actually make some decent attempts at the goal.

I think our problem is being exposed as poor play between the defenders and midfielders. Robert and Harmse made a laundry list of cringe inducing passes today. James caused the second goal when he basically gave up on the play. And James/Velez horribly misplayed the ball that lead to the first goal.

We need better distribution and control. Our boys treat the ball like a hand grenade, and dish it off to the person closest to them almost every time. It has lead to a lot of awful interceptions.

Carver needs to force the whole team to sleep with a game ball for a week, so they develop a relationship with the ball, and learn to love it. Then maybe they won't be willing to give it away so easily.

- Scott

ginkster88
08-17-2008, 07:10 PM
With our regular 11, striking is the issue. With the joke that was on the pitch today... I don't think C. Ronaldo could have helped much.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-17-2008, 07:13 PM
I agree with that. Our players need to develop vision and close control instead of panicking every time the ball hits their feet.

Even the few times we have been our game this year, though, we still haven't had a lethal striker. ;) But for things that need to be improved upon with the group we have now, you're spot on.

MG42
08-17-2008, 07:15 PM
yes...barret should have nailed that volley (I know good strikers miss sometimes but honestly, his shot was a little piss dribble wide of the net), 1-1 , point on the road, this board doesn't turn into a mine field :)

Smenge
08-17-2008, 07:16 PM
Our "skilled" players are too old, and slow. The younger players, are inexperienced and unorganized. MO has built a team made for losing. Nothing they do now works. The ball distribution has been bad for two years now, except when Edu was allowed to roam a little, and demonstrate his quality. Now he is gone. I don't blame anybody, but they are universally a bad team, comparable to a mid level USL team at best.

MadMike
08-17-2008, 07:19 PM
I posted this in the game thread, and then decided it might be a good topic for general conversation, since a lot has been made of our apparent striker woes:

I'm honestly starting to think a striker isn't really our problem. The last few games, our forwards have barely even managed to get their foot on the ball in the attacking third. And yet, every time they do, they actually make some decent attempts at the goal.

I think our problem is being exposed as poor play between the defenders and midfielders. Robert and Harmse made a laundry list of cringe inducing passes today. James caused the second goal when he basically gave up on the play. And James/Velez horribly misplayed the ball that lead to the first goal.

We need better distribution and control. Our boys treat the ball like a hand grenade, and dish it off to the person closest to them almost every time. It has lead to a lot of awful interceptions.

Carver needs to force the whole team to sleep with a game ball for a week, so they develop a relationship with the ball, and learn to love it. Then maybe they won't be willing to give it away so easily.

- Scott
For once I agree with you. A new stricker is not our problem. Our strikers do need to learn how to get the ball in the net when they get a quality pass but that raely happens so it would be a waste this season. Carver need to intensify the practices I think. Midfield is our main problem. Robert is done .... the guy gases out after running 10 yards. Harse should be playing lacrosse or rugby. Robinson is totally over rated and over paid.

RPB_Brantford_08
08-17-2008, 07:26 PM
the new player smith looked great tonight....Velez looked slow on the goal, not that im blaming him for the loss. we need another quality defender, a midfileder you can get the ball fowrad, and maybe another stiker...

ua-kozak_TFC
08-17-2008, 09:10 PM
Our "skilled" players are too old, and slow. The younger players, are inexperienced and unorganized. MO has built a team made for losing. Nothing they do now works. The ball distribution has been bad for two years now, except when Edu was allowed to roam a little, and demonstrate his quality. Now he is gone. I don't blame anybody, but they are universally a bad team, comparable to a mid level USL team at best.
I agree The problem here is deaper than many of you think... first is that MLSE knows nothing about soccer... they are good at making money but 0 soccer knowledge and who can blame them??...they appointed Mo as the top soccer head.. and i think that is quite sad. Because as Mo demostrated to us in his first year of coaching and thus far in player acquisition. He is far from a good one... And until we get someone in this organization who knows something about soccer we will keep sucking even if we bring Luca Toni or Ibrahimovich as our DP strickers....

ua-kozak_TFC
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
the new player smith looked great tonight....Velez looked slow on the goal, not that im blaming him for the loss. we need another quality defender, a midfileder you can get the ball fowrad, and maybe another stiker...
I actually think he ran his ass off... but the Mcgee was just much quicker... \you can;t blame one player because the whole defence fell asleep...

ag futbol
08-17-2008, 09:17 PM
I actually think he ran his ass off... but the Mcgee was just much quicker... \you can;t blame one player because the whole defence fell asleep...
Ya I agree, at first I thought it was Valez that was at fault but clearly James gave up on Mcgee when he ran through and then Valez was forced to leave his man to sprint back and look like the goat.

The Oz
08-17-2008, 09:20 PM
I think that we could very much use another quality defender (maybe dunny when he gets healthy) as well, i think we should not put our dp on a striKer (just so people know how to spell it :) ) but instead a very good midfielder, i think that with barret, jo smith, and ibbe, they are all young and can adapt but they need a good quality midfielder that wont just dump and chase, this is football not hockey. We need someone who can put in quality passes as well as be an attacking threat. Look at all the great teams, usually they have at least one OUTSTANDING midfielder who runs the play.

druid
08-17-2008, 09:41 PM
You're right about the midfield and defense. The passing was awful. Its hard to fault our center backs today as both are so inexperienced.

While the problems in midfield are hitting our goals tally I think its also masking the fact that we need someone up front with composure and the ability to hold up the ball and allow our midfield to move up the pitch. We're rushing our passing or just punting the ball up the field and failing to get enough men into any single attack. We have no patience around the opposing teams box. We've brought in two new strikers but we're lacking a big center forward when dichio is out.

Of course with the kind of central midfield we have it doesn't really matter. I can't think of a formation to save us from the fact that we only have one decent central midfielder.

Kickit09
08-17-2008, 10:52 PM
its definitely an issue. its not the only issue (that’s a very long and complicated list) but its probably the biggest one.

dannyd
08-18-2008, 06:50 AM
I'm gald you brought this up. IMO we have the quality of players to seriously compete in this league.

However, we'll never win anything unless:

1) We start hussling and applying more pressure to the ball when we don't have possesion
2) We start running with the ball more and taking players on in their half instead of hoofing the ball away
3) We need more off the ball movement from every player on the pitch
4) We need to stop standing on our heels ball-watching.

ensco
08-18-2008, 07:36 AM
More thoughts on this from a few weeks ago

I agree that the defenders aren't linking up with the MF properly

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3373

Steve
08-18-2008, 07:53 AM
I'm gald you brought this up. IMO we have the quality of players to seriously compete in this league.

However, we'll never win anything unless:

1) We start hussling and applying more pressure to the ball when we don't have possesion
2) We start running with the ball more and taking players on in their half instead of hoofing the ball away
3) We need more off the ball movement from every player on the pitch
4) We need to stop standing on our heels ball-watching.


I agree with you actually. With a starting lineup of:
---------------Sutton-------------------
Wynne---Velez/James---Marshall---Brennan
---------------Robinson-----------------
Ricketts---------------------------Robert
---------------Guevera------------------
-------Barrett------------Smith(Jo)------

I think we have the tools to win. Guevera putting in through balls to a (fast) smith, Barrett collecting loose balls in the area, Robert and Ricketts threatening from the wings (with Wynne and Brennan always ready to fun over), Robinson anchoring in from of the CBs, Dichio in for 30-45 minutes for whichever striker is faltering to collect crosses and strengthen the control in the attacking third, we have a team that could do very well. The problem is, our team has never all played well together. If Carver can get them all confident and on the same page, we will get into the playoffs and maybe even make a good run. If not, there's always next year (luckily we do have some promising youth, and 3 first round picks, but look for some of those picks to be dealt if the right deal comes up, or if we're looking at the playoffs).

Essentially, I like most of our players now, but I don't have any confidence that they will learn to play together in time to make the playoffs.

Two Sheds
08-18-2008, 07:59 AM
Well we have a few problems and strikers is one of them. In my opinion Dichio is the only striker who seems to know where the goal is and can score from a limited number of opportunities.

Midfield is another problem and I do think that it could be a bigger problem than the problem with the forward line. Last year I thought O'Brien was our best midfielder when he played. He had good ball control, he could read the game and he had vision and the ability to bring others into play. I don't disagree with trading him because he was hardly ever fit, but we do need to get someone like him in again. I was hopeful that Robert could fill this role, but quite frankly if he was so lazy he couldn't be arsed for Newcastle and could hardly get a game at Derby County I don't know who thought he'd pull his finger out in the MLS.

We do have some decent midfielders in Ricketts and Robinson (he is a decent defensive mid) and possibly this new guy James. Hopefully Carver/Mo/total blind luck we can get some one to play centre mid who can pull the strings and bring these guys into the game more.

dannyd
08-18-2008, 08:06 AM
^^ Thats because Dichio is more self-motivated than other players. There is a serious problem with moral on this team and I don't know whats going on. We have good players, we're not worse than any other teams in this leauge. We're getting out hussled, no one is moving off-the-ball and that's what frustrating.

I would rather support a losing team that at least gets stuck in and plays for each other, than watch a mid-table team who plays lazy. It's very frustrating.

poppamidnight
08-18-2008, 10:13 AM
I posted this in the game thread, and then decided it might be a good topic for general conversation, since a lot has been made of our apparent striker woes:

I'm honestly starting to think a striker isn't really our problem. The last few games, our forwards have barely even managed to get their foot on the ball in the attacking third. And yet, every time they do, they actually make some decent attempts at the goal.

I think our problem is being exposed as poor play between the defenders and midfielders. Robert and Harmse made a laundry list of cringe inducing passes today. James caused the second goal when he basically gave up on the play. And James/Velez horribly misplayed the ball that lead to the first goal.

We need better distribution and control. Our boys treat the ball like a hand grenade, and dish it off to the person closest to them almost every time. It has lead to a lot of awful interceptions.

Carver needs to force the whole team to sleep with a game ball for a week, so they develop a relationship with the ball, and learn to love it. Then maybe they won't be willing to give it away so easily.

- Scott
Heres where i think your wrong...

you lump them all together....
The defenders are not the problem (or at least not the #1 problem),

the #1 problem is clearly our midfield turnovers and their inability to outlet like a NORMAL FOOTBALLER

They are completely irrational...
Worst is Harmse by far... I said it a million times, he should no longer see the light of day in a TFC uniform,

close second is Robert...

and (as of late) Robbo's been bad to (although i recognize with no Edu we need to keep Robbo)... He seems to ignore the safe pass, which garantee's possession, and decides to swing it far - often to an unexpecting player - thereby turning it over....

The fix to me seems quite simple:
Velez is going downhill,
James is still not ready,

Therefore we only have 1 CB worth fielding... Our "general" tyronne Marshall,

So go with 3 at the back and put one more up front to open up the outlet options...

If you have a blind-man manning the Gun-Turret, he'll have more success if you put more targets in front of him

Cashcleaner
08-18-2008, 12:30 PM
I think I agree with Shakes to a point. Speaking as a generality we do need a striker, but it's not the only position on the roster that could do with change. It's a pressing issue, but I think we could do with a shake up in the mid as well. Also, to expand on the leadership debate, having a scenario where the absence of one player so greatly affecting the overall dynamics of the team is very worrisome. We can't allow ourselves to be in a position where playing good or bad is decided upon by whether or not Danny plays.

Rawkus_420
08-18-2008, 02:00 PM
no creating offense through the midfield is, the fnishing touch helps, but most chances get created through effective midfield plya...that new smith kid will improve our attack drastically, we just have to get on the end of his balls, dichio would help with that..........Im thinking we should start playing a 3-5-2 or something like that

sutton
wynne marhsall brennan
robbo
ricketts guevara smith
robert
barrett ibby/dichio/new signing/j. smith

i think we should implement this for a good solid attack, we know robert wont be doing much defensively , I say he has decent quality so stick him up front playing sort of a rover that can swing to either side, he'll get much mroe chances that way, we now have speed on both wings with smith and ricketts, supported by wynne and brennan, marshall and robbo holding up the centre, guevara , smith and ricketts though will all have to back track

S_D
08-18-2008, 03:25 PM
Well we need a CB and a forward but I am not sure that is the entire problem.

Remember when TFC played some very attractive possession footie when we played RSL and KC at home? It seems ages ago.

If I remember correctly, TFC only managed to do it for half a game in each but still it looked very promising and then it just stopped. After that it was constant longball garbage and when that happened, the longball was seldomly effective and just resulted in a turnover.

What happened to change the possession game?

jloome
08-18-2008, 03:30 PM
What every response here has in common: we have no depth. We have a good first team that never actually sees the field together, and then everyone else is essentially not good enough for this level. Plug in the fact that only have two defenders who consistently hold it together (Ty Marshall and Jimmy B) and it's a recipe for disaster.

Shakes McQueen
08-18-2008, 03:46 PM
Heres where i think your wrong...

you lump them all together....
The defenders are not the problem (or at least not the #1 problem),

the #1 problem is clearly our midfield turnovers and their inability to outlet like a NORMAL FOOTBALLER

They are completely irrational...
Worst is Harmse by far... I said it a million times, he should no longer see the light of day in a TFC uniform,

close second is Robert...

and (as of late) Robbo's been bad to (although i recognize with no Edu we need to keep Robbo)... He seems to ignore the safe pass, which garantee's possession, and decides to swing it far - often to an unexpecting player - thereby turning it over....

The fix to me seems quite simple:
Velez is going downhill,
James is still not ready,

Therefore we only have 1 CB worth fielding... Our "general" tyronne Marshall,

So go with 3 at the back and put one more up front to open up the outlet options...

If you have a blind-man manning the Gun-Turret, he'll have more success if you put more targets in front of him

Yeah, my bad. I should have been more specific. Most of our problems stem from a select group of players, who keep getting playing time. Our regular XI are good enough (when guys like Robert remember to bring their hearts with them), but players like Harmse, James, and Jarrod Smith need to go back to either the Reserve Squad, or the USL.

My main point was just that we have added two new strikers in Barrett and Johann Smith, and I really don't think we can even judge their quality until we get some more talent and depth everywhere else on the pitch.

We can't rely on our starting XI, because as has been mentioned, they are rarely all together at once to begin with.

I just think weakness at the striker position has become somewhat of a scapegoat for the real issue: poor passing and distribution. God knows what Barrett or Smith could do, if we could get a ball on their foot every now and again.

- Scott

S_D
08-18-2008, 03:54 PM
I just think weakness at the striker position has become somewhat of a scapegoat for the real issue: poor passing and distribution. God knows what Barrett or Smith could do, if we could get a ball on their foot every now and again.

- Scott

Well then how do you explain the games vs. KC and RSL like I mentioned above? It was 2 games in a row, so I don't think it was just due to luck. Or was it...lol...we just happened to catch 2 teams on a bad day?

Shakes McQueen
08-18-2008, 04:06 PM
Well then how do you explain the games vs. KC and RSL like I mentioned above? It was 2 games in a row, so I don't think it was just due to luck. Or was it...lol...we just happened to catch 2 teams on a bad day?

Don't forget the Impact game, that will forever be burned into my memory, when the ball landed on Cunny's foot about a yard from the goal line.

We DID/(DO?) have striker problems, don't get me wrong. But we have added two new ones since then (Jo Smith and Barrett), who haven't been given the opportunity to really shine due to our patched together midfield and backfield.

Re-read what I said. :D

- Scott