Fan 590 Argos @ BMO debate on now 1:22

[Dave67]

Call in and educate this guy that more than just moveable stands are involved - be polite!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Cant think of a better time to get the point across.
please call in (i would but im at work so its a no can do situation).
God speed

[tfcleeds]

Are these shows usually archived on fan590 site for those of us who can't access it right now (work). If not, what is the gist of what has been said so far? Just the same old anti-TFC crap?

[DVS]

Are these shows usually archived on fan590 site for those of us who can't access it right now (work). If not, what is the gist of what has been said so far? Just the same old anti-TFC crap?

actually it wasn't ANTI- TFC at all.

One guy called in said if Grass was put in at BMO it would make it a real national soccer stadium.

Eric Smith agrees that the Argos would tear up grass if they were there.


Lots of different points

[adampz]

Is there an archive?

[AL-MO]

I don't know...its just a call in show. They aren't interviewing anyone.

[Red CB Toronto]

I love football outside, with the weather and all, the MLS and CFL can all get along, enjoy the TFC games at BMO, if the Argos played there, just do not go, nothing is forcing you, just go see the Reds, I would do both, sports teams have been sharing facilities forever and nothing is wrong with this.

[Red CB Toronto]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

[Roogsy]

I love football outside, with the weather and all, the MLS and CFL can all get along, enjoy the TFC games at BMO, if the Argos played there, just do not go, nothing is forcing you, just go see the Reds, I would do both, sports teams have been sharing facilities forever and nothing is wrong with this.

While I agree with this, you have to admit Cblake that there are stadiums that simply can't do this for the love of their game.

You won't see Football being played at Fenway Park. In fact, you won't see any baseball team sharing it's stadium if they have real grass. The only ones that share the stadiums that use turf, like the domes in Minnesota, Seattle and Toronto.

How long have we been hearing players complaining about turf, regardless of the version? Whether it be the one at the old Ex Grounds, the one that was initially installed at Skydome, the one that Rogers Centre has now or the new one that BMO Field has today? Nobody likes it.

Are you ok with never getting grass at BMO? If that is the case, we can move on. But if you want to someday see grass, you would agree, that even if you are an Argos fan, they should not come to BMO Field. That is the issue my friend. There wouldn't be an issue if the Argo's arriving neither puts us ahead or behind on the grass issue and if the experience remains the same. But despite the rhetoric, everyone seems to agree that changing what we have at BMO Field is going to happen if the Argos come. How can we be ok with that?

It would be alright if the stadium was initially designed that way. But it wasn't. And now we have to squeeze an entire Pointyball club into a stadium that was designed for a cozy little soccer club.

[BakaGaijin]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

If the Raptors were forced to play basketball on a sheet of ice, there would have been plenty of complaining........however, both teams were accomodated with ideal surfaces. If we can get a removable grass field for footy, then I don't mind if the Argo's move into BMO.....

[giambac]

While I agree with this, you have to admit Cblake that there are stadiums that simply can't do this for the love of their game.

You won't see Football being played at Fenway Park. In fact, you won't see any baseball team sharing it's stadium if they have real grass. The only ones that share the stadiums that use turf, like the domes in Minnesota, Seattle and Toronto.

How long have we been hearing players complaining about turf, regardless of the version? Whether it be the one at the old Ex Grounds, the one that was initially installed at Skydome, the one that Rogers Centre has now or the new one that BMO Field has today? Nobody likes it.

Are you ok with never getting grass at BMO? If that is the case, we can move on. But if you want to someday see grass, you would agree, that even if you are an Argos fan, they should not come to BMO Field. That is the issue my friend. There wouldn't be an issue if the Argo's arriving neither puts us ahead or behind on the grass issue and if the experience remains the same. But despite the rhetoric, everyone seems to agree that changing what we have at BMO Field is going to happen if the Argos come. How can we be ok with that?

It would be alright if the stadium was initially designed that way. But it wasn't. And now we have to squeeze an entire Pointyball club into a stadium that was designed for a cozy little soccer club.

I'm okay with the turf.

I've played on it and it's fine with me. Does who complain about it would just complain about something else if we did have grass.

[boban]

I'm okay with the turf.

I've played on it and it's fine with me. Does who complain about it would just complain about something else if we did have grass.
Well no offense Giambac but you are not playing so your opinion on the fake shit is irrelevant.
Players won't come here because of the fake stuff - fact.
The national team prefers to play elsewhere because of the fake stuff- fact.

[Huginho]

I'm okay with the turf.

I've played on it and it's fine with me. Does who complain about it would just complain about something else if we did have grass.

quick someone call mo!!! we got a player that has no problem playing on turf:rolleyes5:

[AL-MO]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.


Totally different my friend. Both teams are not playing on the same surface.

[Red CB Toronto]

I can see your point on that one, but the Argonauts and Blue Jays do not play on the same surface either.

[boban]

As far as I know, hockey is played on ice and basketball is not
Thats what the other posters were trying to tell you to make sure you knew.
;)

[jrey]

I can see your point on that one, but the Argonauts and Blue Jays do not play on the same surface either.

Yes. They do.

NOT ONLY is the turf an issue, but so is the fact that they would need to move the supporters' section further from the field to fit the stupid fucking 110 yd field and goals in. So fuck that. There goes the soccer environment, the seats directly in front of the pitch, what MAKES THE GAME SO MUCH FUN.

Seriously. I've kept quiet on this issue while reading everyone's posts. Some people are just downright ignorant about it.

Fuck the Argos. Find your own stadium. Better yet, fold, and bring Toronto a good football team who WILL play in the Rogers Centre.

[joel]

NOT ONLY is the turf an issue, but so is the fact that they would need to move the supporters' section further from the field to fit the stupid fucking 110 yd field and goals in. So fuck that. There goes the soccer environment, the seats directly in front of the pitch, what MAKES THE GAME SO MUCH FUN.


you don't know that. A plan that involves allowing the expansion to retain the seats at the edge of the pitch moveable or otherwise, would solve that.

People are just speculating.

[Roogsy]

I'm okay with the turf.

I've played on it and it's fine with me. Does who complain about it would just complain about something else if we did have grass.


Yeah...but we aren't trying to sign you.

[loconet]

I can't believe people are defending the idea of Argos moving in.

I have yet to hear one solid idea of how this "sharing" of the stadium would work.

[rocker]

you don't know that. A plan that involves allowing the expansion to retain the seats at the edge of the pitch moveable or otherwise, would solve that.

People are just speculating.

what is "otherwise"? they are either moveable or not. there's no other solution to having seats at the edge of the pitch for soccer.

It's also speculation that you can have moveable seats in an outdoor stadium. I guess engineers can design anything, but it's a very rare thing and surely more expensive than having regular stands. Generally moveable seats (accordian style) are only found in indoor arenas /stadiums due to the problems with weather and the durability of those.
The moveable seat argument is thrown out every time as some sort of "factual solution" to the problem, but I don't think it is a fact.

it's also speculation that you can fit a CFL field (centred) on the current site since by my calculations the end zone would go further back than the grand staircase (which is a part of the building and can't be torn down).

[BuSaPuNk]

mabey we should we finally found someone that will play on turf.....lmao

[Don Julio]

We could make the soccer pitch 15 yards longer..

..but I'll shut up now.

[Maple Leaf Red]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

But they should have complained because the tight turnaround on basketball games and other events have resulted in Toronto have terrible ice.

[TFC Tifoso]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

And who was going to complain? One side of MLSE to another? There's no logic in this.....Leafs and Raptors are owned by the same people, TFC and Argos are not.

And as I do remember, die-hard Leaf fans were against moving out of the Gardens....they just didn't have the cojones to speak up enough about it.....let's not make the same mistake as TFC supporters.

[AL-MO]

I can see your point on that one, but the Argonauts and Blue Jays do not play on the same surface either.


As Jrey said they do. When the Jays put in new turf a couple years ago, the Argos had to sell the stuff they bought as they were playing on the same turf. (I know this because I used to work at the place that bought the turf from the Argos)

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Tom Anselmi will discuss BMO/Argos on the FAN 590 @ 5:25

http://www.fan590.com

[rocker]

it's also on sportsnet (MCClown's show)

[Red CB Toronto]

This will be interesting.

[Red CB Toronto]

Channel 22 on Rogers Cable

[Eastend]

listening now.

[Red CB Toronto]

I am too

[Red CB Toronto]

this is great talk

[Red CB Toronto]

MLSE was actually involved with the U of T deal, I know that for a fact

[Eastend]

I hate Bob. He does his job really well.

[Red CB Toronto]

9,000 on the waiting list from what was said, thats about a growth of 4,000 from what I last heard.

[Red CB Toronto]

This is a city owned building, so in the end it is up to Mayor Miller and his inner circle, it is the cities call regarding the Argos and expansion, MLSE are just the managers.

[SilverSamurai]

9,000 on the waiting list from what was said, thats about a growth of 4,000 from what I last heard.
9,000? wow... that's huge...

[noochie]

he said grass :)

[Ladies Love Julius James]

Long term are main goal is to put natural grass


....can't do that with Argos LOL.

[yellowfellow]

GRASS!! (long term, but city is in the way)

[Red CB Toronto]

That is big, because a lot of those people are not just peeps who signed up to be on it but actually bought tickets at some point or another.

[ilikemusic]

If ticket prices go up before there are (at the very least) concrete plans for expansion I will be livid.

[Eastend]

shit, missed the part about the fans being really vocal...work is interupting

[alexintoronto]

My Summary:
McCown: This has been an issue before BMO Field was built, only way to make it happen is to demolish one end.
Allegation it was done on purpose to keep CFL out.
Anselmi: denies this – says it was designed as a soccer stadium.
McCown: pushes that someone decided to make it this size.
Anselmi: says the Argos were out of the picture when the stadium was designed.
McCown: Is it physically possible to have the Argos as tenants?
Anselmi : I think so, but we haven’t looked at it hard. We’ve been looking at expanding the stadium for TFC – haven’t figured out cost or how we would do it.
McCown: Contingency plan to build, but footings won’t support a second deck.
Anselmi says they could check on the footings pretty quick– basically thinking of putting a second deck on the east side.
McCown: Who’s going to pay for it:
Anselmi says they haven’t looked at anything yet.
Some other guy:If someone came up with the money but the Argos had to be let in – what would you say?
Anselmi: Up to the city. His interest is to keep what we have intact.
McCown: Soccer purists being the way they are (he understands it but isn’t one) don’t want to see any extra lines, how to solve dilemma?
Anselmi: whole bunch of dilemmas we haven’t thought of yet. Long term – like to go to grass but province's money was for community use during the winter. Fans have been very vocal about stopping this. We’ve only wondered under our breath. Good organizations wonder “what else” to do next.
MLSE is very bullish on MLS & soccer in general.

[Ladies Love Julius James]

shit, missed the part about the fans being really vocal...work is interupting


Just said fans dont want it and we recognize it and haven't looked at all the roadblocks when it comes to bringing the Argos in.

Basically choosing his words carefully.

[Red CB Toronto]

I find it funny that in the CFL/NFL that turf is the way to go but in soccer grass is all the rage, I know for a fact when the Steelers opened up Hienz Field they put in grass and after replacing it a few times due to weather they changed to turf.

[Pigfynn]

He showed respect for the supporters and sounded honest enough about wanting what's best for soccer as a sport being played at BMO

[rocker]

to those not listening, he basically said that they haven't put much thought into this expansion stuff, Argos or just generally expansion. Either that, or he was deliberating acting like a dummy to get people off his back. He did mention that his fans have constantly reminded him of this issue.... as mentioned above, he talked about grass long term and how that presents a problem if the Argos came in. McClown mentioned the lines on the field issues, and while holding his tongue, seemed to understand how soccer fans don't like it.

[Red CB Toronto]

Just said fans dont want it and we recognize it and haven't looked at all the roadblocks when it comes to bringing the Argos in.

Basically choosing his words carefully.

He has to be carefully because in the end the Argos at BMO will be the city's say as they are the owners.

[rocker]

if Anselmi isn't bullshitting, then it sounds like they haven't given expanding the stadium much thought at all, and certainly not for Argos.

If he's truthful, then all this Argo talk is the Argos floating trial balloons to see what people think, and maybe influence public opinion their way.

[Shakes McQueen]

Recap of the important stuff:

- Pronvince's funding is tied to BMO being a year round community facility
- MLSE is fully aware of the fan opposition to the Argos coming in.
- They are looking at putting grass in, but that creates problems with the aforementioned government funding. Anselmi said playing on grass is "really what soccer is all about", so at least he seems to understand our plight.
- It's up to the City whether the Argos come in.
- The Argos have asked their season ticket holders what they think of the idea.
- They haven't given serious consideration to expanding the stadium yet, but if they do, it'll be by putting another level on the east (?) stands, and filling out more of the south end.
- Anselmi sounded thoroughly unenthusiastic about the idea of the Argos coming in.

I was happy after hearing this interview. Clearly it seems that MLSE is in our corner regarding this BMO/Argos nonsense.

- Scott

[rocker]

He has to be carefully because in the end the Argos at BMO will be the city's say as they are the owners.

I noticed this, but I think Anselmi is trying to avoid the conflict by saying that.

It's true that the city "owns" the stadium. That's a fact. But the city signed an agreement with MLSE to run the stadium for 20 years. That's a fact.
The agreement (available online) lists the revenue sharing details that depend upon the current size and function of the stadium. You can't change a stadium, make it bigger, without incurring more costs that affect the revenue sharing agreement.

Anselmi maybe is leaving an "out" for later. He can just say "we had to go along with it because the city said so" when really MLSE has to sign off on it too.
If journalists are reading this, I'd love for them to ask him that question next time.

[loconet]

He has to be carefully because in the end the Argos at BMO will be the city's say as they are the owners.

in the end then, us as taxpayers own the stadium. It is the city that needs to understand BMO must stay as a soccer stadium only period. Yes Miller has stated that he agrees with BMO staying that way but how about the clowns at the council?

[SilverSamurai]

Recap of the important stuff:

- Pronvince's funding is tied to BMO being a year round community facility
- MLSE is fully aware of the fan opposition to the Argos coming in.
- They are looking at putting grass in, but that creates problems with the aforementioned government funding. Anselmi said playing on grass is "really what soccer is all about", so at least he seems to understand our plight.
- It's up to the City whether the Argos come in.
- The Argos have asked their season ticket holders what they think of the idea.
- They haven't given serious consideration to expanding the stadium yet, but if they do, it'll be by putting another level on the east (?) stands, and filling out more of the south end.
- Anselmi sounded thoroughly unenthusiastic about the idea of the Argos coming in.

I was happy after hearing this interview. Clearly it seems that MLSE is in our corner regarding this BMO/Argos nonsense.

- Scott
Thanks for the recap. How many games are in a CFL home stand? The city also has to look at what they'll lose in terms of CMNT games as right now Montreal is seen as the top choice for the squad. IF the Argos come in, Montreal may as well become the NSS.

[Eastend]

If MLSE hasn't put much thought into expansion then the Leafs are winning the Stanley Cup this year folks. Sorry but when you are a Corp like MLSE and you see how crazy and successful year 1 and 2 are you have the blueprints ready.

having said that.....I am happy to hear that they want to protect what we have with this club.

[Shakes McQueen]

It really sounds to me like perhaps the RPB/U-Sector/NEE/etc. should be focusing their efforts on a march to City Hall. It'd be a great visual, and hopefully ensure that Miller is fully aware of the football fans' opposition to this possible move. MLSe is obviously already aware.

- Scott

[Toronto_Bhoy]

That was a PR call…however MLSE sound as if the are siding with their bread and butter…which is TFC…but that could all change with a new revenue stream…namely the Argos.

[Shakes McQueen]

If MLSE hasn't put much thought into expansion then the Leafs are winning the Stanley Cup this year folks. Sorry but when you are a Corp like MLSE and you see how crazy and successful year 1 and 2 are you have the blueprints ready.

having said that.....I am happy to hear that they want to protect what we have with this club.

I think they meant they haven't given thought on going ahead with those plans yet. He mentioned that the team is still really young, and they don't want to jump the gun on expansion.

- Scott

[kitchener-TFC]

Long term are main goal is to put natural grass


....can't do that with Argos LOL.
Long term....:(

[Shakes McQueen]

That was a PR call…however MLSE sound as if the are siding with their bread and butter…which is TFC…but that could all change with a new revenue stream…namely the Argos.

It would be the City's pockets, not MLSE. He said MLSE just has a 20 year management contract with the City.

- Scott

[james]

a big reason for me i dont want Argos here is because i would like to watch Team Canada play in Toronto more often. As long as BMO field has turf they are gonna try and play the least amount of games in Toronto as possible. They much rather play in Montreal with real grass.

[loconet]

It really sounds to me like perhaps the RPB/U-Sector/NEE/etc. should be focusing their efforts on a march to City Hall. It'd be a great visual, and hopefully ensure that Miller is fully aware of the football fans' opposition to this possible move. MLSe is obviously already aware.

- Scott

a march followed by or following a nice letter/report well researched into all of our concerns and why having the Argos move in is simply a bad idea for the sport and the interests of the city in general.

[james]

anyone notice how Soccer and Baseball and even alot of NFL Football now are building stadiums that are made for 1 sport only while Toronto seems to be going backwards by trying to share the new stadium.

[CoachGT]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

The difference being that MLSE owns both. Toronto teams do not have a history of playing nice with each other when it comes to competing interests. Toronto Blue Jays have first dibs on Rogers Centre, Argos second. Rogers owns Jays, now is cuddling up to the NFL, to the detriment of the CFL/Argos. Argos need to try and make some noise. Argos want their own stadium but can't afford it (and who would deal with them after they've pulled ut of a couple of deals???).

Leafs/Raptors, common ownership, along with owning the ACC, no issue there. BMO Field? MLSE/city share. If there was an easy fix, then I could see the Argos making a case. But there is no easy ( = cheap) fix, and I can't see MLSE getting chummy with either Rogers or the Argos.

Could you see an outdoor hockey game in Toronto? Where would it be? Rogers Centre, so that the Leafs would reduce their revenue????

[Phil]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

For me, this happened because conversion of the stadium (ACC) is easy. Conversion of BMO field will be a bit of a nightmare (the yardage addition, placement of stands) and of course the grass issue.

If this were decided before the stadium was built, then this would not be an issue now.

[TorCanSoc]

Who said the same agreement went up with the ACC, needing to have community usage of the arena. Then MLSE redid Lyon's arena and use that as the available surface. Was this just people posting and speculating, or was this truth?

Sounds plausable to me. So then MLSE buys Lamport, turf the turf to there and a bubbled surface is available year round.

[giambac]

Long term....:(

to me that means anywhere from 5-10years (probaly 10)

[Toronto_Bhoy]

It would be the City's pockets, not MLSE. He said MLSE just has a 20 year management contract with the City.

- Scott

And MLSE, out of the goodness of their hearts, will continue to manage BMO for no additional cost…WRONG!!!

There will be the managing and over seeing of operations on the Argo end…renovations, scheduling, concessions, field conversion, security, etc.

This totally changes the 20 year agreement MLSE has with the City of Toronto and becomes a new/additional revenue stream.

This is found money for MLSE and if they can make money from it…they'll jump at the opportunity…the City gets the rent…percentage of concessions…

[shwade]

I don't know if this has been posted but there's a poll on the star.com sports section asking if we wanted to see the Argos play at BMO rather than the Rogers Centre..so far Yes is winning.

http://www.thestar.com/sports

[Parkdale]

If ticket prices go up before there are (at the very least) concrete plans for expansion I will be livid.

ticket prices are going up every year. that's just how it goes.

[Broadview]

I don't know if this has been posted but there's a poll on the star.com sports section asking if we wanted to see the Argos play at BMO rather than the Rogers Centre..so far Yes is winning.

http://www.thestar.com/sports

Now that you've posted it on this board, consider this poll skewed :)

[sully]

poll on the star.com sports section asking if we wanted to see the Argos play at BMO rather than the Rogers Centre..so far Yes is winning.

http://www.thestar.com/sports

it's close now

[boban]

I find it funny that in the CFL/NFL that turf is the way to go but in soccer grass is all the rage, I know for a fact when the Steelers opened up Hienz Field they put in grass and after replacing it a few times due to weather they changed to turf.
Are you sure about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Field
http://www.steelers.com/heinzfield/stadiuminfo/

[Carts]

If MLSE hasn't put much thought into expansion then the Leafs are winning the Stanley Cup this year folks. Sorry but when you are a Corp like MLSE and you see how crazy and successful year 1 and 2 are you have the blueprints ready.

having said that.....I am happy to hear that they want to protect what we have with this club.

Don't be so sure of that...

The best way to sell a ticket, is have none available...

MLSE won't jump the gun on anything... They are maticulous into everything they do - and that includes following a strategic plan - that plan called for no expansion for five years so although expansion seems obvious, they didn't get to where they are (success in business wise) by abandoning strategies.....

Carts...

[billyfly]

I don't know if this has been posted but there's a poll on the star.com sports section asking if we wanted to see the Argos play at BMO rather than the Rogers Centre..so far Yes is winning.

http://www.thestar.com/sports

I went there to vote. The "No" is now winning.

[billyfly]

it's close now

I just voted. It wasnt closed for me.

Yes - 41%
No - 50%
I don't know - 8%

I wonder if Argo fans and STH will vote "yes" in spite?

[Don Julio]

And MLSE, out of the goodness of their hearts, will continue to manage BMO for no additional cost…WRONG!!!

There will be the managing and over seeing of operations on the Argo end…renovations, scheduling, concessions, field conversion, security, etc.

This totally changes the 20 year agreement MLSE has with the City of Toronto and becomes a new/additional revenue stream.

This is found money for MLSE and if they can make money from it…they'll jump at the opportunity…the City gets the rent…percentage of concessions…

Guaranteed the contract(s) that MLSE has with the city has these kind of scenarios built in - it's just more dates, more seats, more configurations, the exact things that the terms of remuneration for running the stadium is probably based on.

[sully]

I just voted. It wasnt closed for me.



Oh... not closed balloting..I meant the ballot between 'No' and 'Yes' was close..

[denime]

It's not closed we still can vote.

Would you prefer to watch the Argos play at BMO Field rather than the Rogers Centre?
Yes 132 35%

No 211 57%

I don't know 25 6%

[denime]

Can someone run the script on this voting?
just for fun. :reddevil:

[BigD]

If MLSE hasn't put much thought into expansion then the Leafs are winning the Stanley Cup this year folks. Sorry but when you are a Corp like MLSE and you see how crazy and successful year 1 and 2 are you have the blueprints ready.

having said that.....I am happy to hear that they want to protect what we have with this club.

If that was true then why after years of selling out the Leafs did they only build the Air Canada Center to hold 19000 for a game. They had to know that they can sell 30000+, so you think they would have built it larger.

MLSE knows that you need to balance atmosphere, demand and revenue.

BMO has a great feel to the crowd with the current state of the stadium. MLSE will take several years to evaluate what kind of demand/support there will be from fans over the long term (after the initial excitement wears off and through good years and bad years). Also, they will study how to expand while still keeping the same feeling in the stadium.

If they rush any decision they risk ruining what they have ... then they turn TFC @ BMO into the Jays @ Skydome

Arsenal has a 70000 seat stadium ... but they also have 150000 team memberships that give fans dibs to buy tickets before they go to general sale. In the last 2 years not 1 game has gone to general sale. TFC have 16000 season tickets sold and 9000 on a waiting list for a total around 25000. BMO hold 20000 which seems appropriate for now. If this maintains I could see expansion being considered in like 2012 but not before then - unless they are pushed by another tenant. The 20000 capaicty was intended for CNMT and the FIFA U-20 tournament moreso that for TFC.

[boban]

If that was true then why after years of selling out the Leafs did they only build the Air Canada Center to hold 19000 for a game. They had to know that they can sell 30000+, so you think they would have built it larger.
You can't compare sitting and watching a sport played on ~67m surface to one played on 105m surface with more than twice the width. Add to that a puck is so small you can't follow it if one is that far back.
About 20,000 is the max you can go for hockey, while that is barely scratching the surface for soccer.



MLSE knows that you need to balance atmosphere, demand and revenue.

BMO has a great feel to the crowd with the current state of the stadium. MLSE will take several years to evaluate what kind of demand/support there will be from fans over the long term (after the initial excitement wears off and through good years and bad years). Also, they will study how to expand while still keeping the same feeling in the stadium.

If they rush any decision they risk ruining what they have ... then they turn TFC @ BMO into the Jays @ Skydome

Arsenal has a 70000 seat stadium ... but they also have 150000 team memberships that give fans dibs to buy tickets before they go to general sale. In the last 2 years not 1 game has gone to general sale. TFC have 16000 season tickets sold and 9000 on a waiting list for a total around 25000. BMO hold 20000 which seems appropriate for now. If this maintains I could see expansion being considered in like 2012 but not before then - unless they are pushed by another tenant. The 20000 capaicty was intended for CNMT and the FIFA U-20 tournament moreso that for TFC.
Not really. Initial CSA plans were for 30,000 then 25,000.

[Cashcleaner]

Just wanted to let people know that you can still vote on the Star.com ballot titled: "Would you prefer to watch the Argos play at BMO Field rather than the Rogers Centre?"

As of 4:30 in the morning we have...


Yes - 166 votes (37%)

No - 246 votes (55%)

Don't Know - 30 votes (6%)

[bones]

Tom Anselmi stated very clearly when asked "why was the field not made to accommodate a CFL team?" (or words to that effect) that the Argos were in the loop from the early stages but made their choice to go to the Rogers Center.

So now that their lease is up they're looking for another sweetheart deal and are coming crying to the city because of our success at BMO. Yes the building is city owned, but damit you made your bed Argos, now get back to sleep!

Mr. Anselmi also made a nice point that the city, unfortunately owns the building and has stated that it must generate revenue around the calendar year which forces us to have turf. "we want to have real grass because real football is played on real grass" but at this time it is not possible. He further added that the fans of Toronto FC have been very vocal about not wanting the Argos in BMO field in fact they get calles almost every day about it. He also made reference to the extra lines on the pitch and how horrible it is for both the players and the fans to have that happen. *cough Revs *cough

Bones...

[Steve]

If MLSE hasn't put much thought into expansion then the Leafs are winning the Stanley Cup this year folks. Sorry but when you are a Corp like MLSE and you see how crazy and successful year 1 and 2 are you have the blueprints ready.

having said that.....I am happy to hear that they want to protect what we have with this club.

Hahaha, come on, can't you all tell that MLSE is taking the argos for a ride?

Did you read the article in the
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...sFootball/home (http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080812.wsptbmo12/GSStory/GlobeSportsFootball/home)

Basically, if you read through it, it shows what I have suspected. MLSE are on our side. They don't want the argos in. They want the argos as far away from their cash cow as possible. They know we won't stand for it, and therefor they won't stand for it.

As for expansion, it's pretty obvious Peddie is playing dumb because the argos are thinking of moving in. Here's the deal:

If MLSE brought a plan to the city right now to expand BMO by 10k seats, what do you think the city would do? They'd say "Great! The argos want to expand too! Why don't we work out a deal between the two of you, you can pay for some, they can pay for some (to move the south back) and everyone is happy! So glad we could come to a compromise".

So, MLSE is going to do no such thing. They are going to claim that they MAY think about expanding the stadium, but it's not even on their radar. Not a good enough ROI yet. Everything they can to convince the other parties that they won't do it. This means if the Argos want in, MLSE can try to block and stadium expansion, and the city will not be able to force them to not only let the argos in, but pay to do it. Frankly, it's a smart move, and you have to respect how Peddie is playing this.

[denime]

It is time to go to :

http://www.thestar.com/sports#

and VOTE !!

Yes 201 38%
No 278 53%
I don't know 37 7%



Someone run the script on this voting,this voting is more important than goal of the week.

[Dave67]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think MLSE will stall this and then ultimately launch a lawsuit to try & stop the Argos moving in. Surely in their stable of lawyers they will find grounds to sue. They only need to stall this past 2009 when the Argos need to commit to another 5 years at Rogers. With the speed of lawsuits in this country it can't be that hard to push this past 2009.

[Blizzard]

Nobody complained when it was decided that the Raptors and Leafs would share a building rather than each building their own what was going to happen, we can all just get along and enjoy the sports that we love without attacking the other.

With respect CBlake, the Leafs' skate blades don't damage the Raptors hardwood.

While it can be argued that the presence of a basketball court does to some degree make it more difficult for a quality ice surface to be maintained, I don't think it is comparable to what a CFL game will do to a natural grass field.

CFL, soccer and a grass field are not compatable.

[Kickit09]

all the argos are doing is making enemies.... and wont it be ackward playing in "home" stadium they arent welcome in.

[Blizzard]

If that was true then why after years of selling out the Leafs did they only build the Air Canada Center to hold 19000 for a game. They had to know that they can sell 30000+, so you think they would have built it larger.

MLSE knows that you need to balance atmosphere, demand and revenue.


Don't forget, the ACC was built by the Raptors prior to MLSE purchasing the team from the Bitove group.

While the stadium wasn't quite finished at that time and some changes were made to improve certain aspects of the facility for hockey (although those obstructed view tickets in the west end still exist) you are right. MLSE didn't want to go the route of the Habs who built the largest capacity stadium in the league (I believe).

[rocker]

all the argos are doing is making enemies.... and wont it be ackward playing in "home" stadium they arent welcome in.

wouldn't the double blue fans love sitting in the red seats when they play Calgary? hahah

[Blizzard]

wouldn't the double blue fans love sitting in the red seats when they play Calgary? hahah

That would be the least of their concerns I think.

[rocker]

some history:

http://www.yorku.ca/alumni/alumnimatters/oct-04/newstadium.html

[AL-MO]

too bad the Argos burned bridges at York, it would have been perfect to have them up there. (them and the York U football program playing on the same field)

[Brooker]

Yes 276 40%

No 357 51%

I don't know 56 8%