Expansion: Stunning Development?

[Lucky Strike]

According to this, two of these three cities will become MLS expansion teams: Montreal, Vancouver and Portland. It is MLS rumors, so take it with a grain of salt, but they are right on occasion (the Cunningham deal for instance) so make of that what you will.

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/08/report-two-usl-cities-have-been.html

[Technorgasm]

Don;t we have Canadian rights to the MLS until the 2011 season?

or. . . Am I off a wee bit.

COME ON PORTLAND!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Meh, its still MLS Rumors

[Nodoubtguy]

End of USL1??


both cities chosen have USL1 franchises and that the existing USL clubs have
allegedly signed non-compete agreements that will see the existing teams dropped
to USL2 or lower, effective 2011.

I know it's MLSRumors and all, but once in a while they get something right.

[Kooper]

End of USL1??



I know it's MLSRumors and all, but once in a while they get something right.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[rocker]

Don;t we have Canadian rights to the MLS until the 2011 season?

or. . . Am I off a wee bit.

COME ON PORTLAND!

the exclusivity went til 2010.. I wouldn't have expected another Canadian team by 2010 anyways since Seattle gets in 2009 and Philly 2010.

[Billy the kid]

I don't understand the non competitive agreements with existing teams dropping to USL-2. All stories I see suggest, that Montreal and Vancouver want to bring their existing teams up.

Interesting read, if nothing else though.

[Billy the kid]

I'm certain I read that Toronto would be willing to waive thier exclusivity rights when rumours about Montreal wanting to come in early first surfaced. But you guys are right, no team will get in before those rights expire anyways.

[yellowfellow]

They wouldnt have 2 west teams and they wouldnt have 2 canadian teams. So, this suggests Portland and Montreal. But why did they include Vancouver? This is crap if you think about it.

[bgnewf]

I think TFC would be mad to not let Montreal into the league ASAP. if any of you were in Montreal and for most of you who were at the Montreal game at BMO field this year, you will know that this rivalry is real and that a Derby twice a year is good for TFC.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I can see montreal and vancouver in time but honestly i bet its one eastern team and one western team, one canadian and one american.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

They wouldnt have 2 west teams and they wouldnt have 2 canadian teams. So, this suggests Portland and Montreal. But why did they include Vancouver? This is crap if you think about it.

Could also be Vancouver and St Louis (granted St Louis could/would be considered western but its not as west as portland)

[profit89]

They wouldnt have 2 west teams and they wouldnt have 2 canadian teams. So, this suggests Portland and Montreal. But why did they include Vancouver? This is crap if you think about it.

By 2010 MLS will be single table, they wont be concerned with east/west crap.

[JonO]

I think TFC would be mad to not let Montreal into the league ASAP. if any of you were in Montreal and for most of you who were at the Montreal game at BMO field this year, you will know that this rivalry is real and that a Derby twice a year is good for TFC.
I don't understand how letting Montreal into the league ASAP would be good for TFC. They can't sell anymore tickets than they already are selling and it would add competition (who have a grass pitch) for Canadian players.

Would be fun though ;)

[Don Julio]

They are expanding WAY too fast. Getting greedy now that the expansion fee has gone so high. Unfortunately for us it means the quality of the game will continue to decline for the next 5 years.

[profit89]

They are expanding WAY too fast. Getting greedy now that the expansion fee has gone so high. Unfortunately for us it means the quality of the game will continue to decline for the next 5 years.

i would have thought the same thing, but the ccc showed us usl is not far off.. they can use the same team, maybe get 3-4 players (no need to replace all 18). Talent pool will be fine. Increase the salary cap and like that you attract/keep foreigners here.

[Beach_Red]

They are expanding WAY too fast. Getting greedy now that the expansion fee has gone so high. Unfortunately for us it means the quality of the game will continue to decline for the next 5 years.

Hockey expanded too fast because there wasn't a big enough talent pool - no matter how much money an expansion team had. Are you saying there aren't enough players to fill the new roster spots, even if the salary cap is increased?

[profit89]

Soccer's talent pool is never exhausted.. it's the one advantage it has over all other sports... it's the global game. The problem is making your league attractive enuf for them, eg, $$.

[Roogsy]

Soccer's talent pool is never exhausted.. it's the one advantage it has over all other sports... it's the global game. The problem is making your league attractive enuf for them, eg, $$.

QFT...if the salary cap is raised, this issue resolves itself.

But I agree that the league is getting greedy. They want the 40 or 50 mill in franchise fees, but they haven't increased the salary cap to the same degree as the value of the franchises has increased. A 2.5mill salary cap for an 18 man roster is ridiculous.

[Wagner]

2 points...

1) talent is already pretty thin.

2) Don't forget about the possibility of relocation. (St. Louis Crew...)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Another issue is that they gotta expand the first team from 18 to 24, that shit shows when we (mls teams) play in those tournies

[king10]

2 points...

1) talent is already pretty thin.

2) Don't forget about the possibility of relocation. (St. Louis Crew...)


columbus would never relocate... they have a sss stadium.. what woud that tell other cities.. "build us a sss stadium but that does not guarantee we stay in your city".. columbus wass one of the flagship franchises of the league

[Lucky Strike]

columbus would never relocate... they have a sss stadium.. what woud that tell other cities.. "build us a sss stadium but that does not guarantee we stay in your city".. columbus wass one of the flagship franchises of the league

As pathetic as Columbus is, KC to me falls first in line for relocation because they do not have an SSS. I think they have plans for one, but until construction starts, they are #1 for relocation should it occur.

[Don Julio]

USL looks comparable to MLS in direct competition primarily because of the psychological advantage of being the underdog and being more up for the match. The success that they do have hardly comes through playing entertaining soccer, either.

I want to see the salary cap raised to allow the quality get better in this league, but adding 6 teams this quickly is going to negate that - we'll just be paying more for the same level players (or worse) because demand will be so much higher.

There's only so many players that fit into the MLS criteria $400,000 (maybe 500-600 after new CBA) tops, no transfer fee, domestic, no ambitions to play overseas. Look at how much trouble we're having finding a decent striker even with a tonne of cap room and allocation money. Now imagine it if another 15 strikers tired up.

Meanwhile the salary cap will be raised only modestly because some clubs don't generate enough revenue to keep up. Unless they decide to MOVE teams to the new locations they really need to think about a 5 year break from expansion after Philly. Nothing against the teams mentioned - there's some real potential for good markets there - but the only reason they are adding these teams is the ballooning $50M expansion fee.

[Beach_Red]

QFT...if the salary cap is raised, this issue resolves itself.

But I agree that the league is getting greedy. They want the 40 or 50 mill in franchise fees, but they haven't increased the salary cap to the same degree as the value of the franchises has increased. A 2.5mill salary cap for an 18 man roster is ridiculous.

Well, the people putting up 40 or 50 million bucks will have a big say over things like salary cap and roster size. The players want a higher cap and these new owners want a bigger cap.

Like all things, the timing will be the thing. This league looks good, though, and ready to make a big jump. We'll see it over the next five years.

[BigLou]

Don;t we have Canadian rights to the MLS until the 2011 season?

or. . . Am I off a wee bit.

COME ON PORTLAND!
I think you are right on that one actually. I seem to remember someone from the MLSE brass saying that wouldn't be a sticking point if expansion did come Canada's way.

[Flipityflu]

i don't understand why vancouver keeps getting the nod before montreal. surely having an actual stadium to play in already gives them an advantage. there isn't even a deal set for where a vancouver stadium would be placed.

[King Jeff]

According to this, two of these three cities will become MLS expansion teams: Montreal, Vancouver and Portland. It is MLS rumors, so take it with a grain of salt, but they are right on occasion (the Cunningham deal for instance) so make of that what you will.

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/08/report-two-usl-cities-have-been.html

There's a follow-up comment on there about a terrible choice and a bad stadium location. Sounds like Miami, doesn't it (i.e., none of the three cities mentioned in the original post)

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Don;t we have Canadian rights to the MLS until the 2011 season?

or. . . Am I off a wee bit.

COME ON PORTLAND!

I think the deal is that the expansion will happen for the 2011 season, seeing as we've got Seattle coming in next year, and Philly the following year. We better get at least one other canadian team out of this, though...

[NF-FC]

columbus would never relocate... they have a sss stadium.. what woud that tell other cities.. "build us a sss stadium but that does not guarantee we stay in your city".. columbus wass one of the flagship franchises of the league

The city didn't pay for this stadium. Also, Crew stadium is built on the Columbus fair grounds, and has a permanent concert stage. Since the Germain amphitheater closed down it would be mighty attractive for the city of columbus to purchase. They could use it for concerts, festivals, and high school football championships. The Crew are a highly movable team.


As pathetic as Columbus is, KC to me falls first in line for relocation because they do not have an SSS. I think they have plans for one, but until construction starts, they are #1 for relocation should it occur.

demolition of the area where the stadium will be built has begun. It's one of those markets that you want to move, but can't, like the phoenix coyotes.

the most moveable team in the league is Chivas. they draw like crap and have no fans, making them perfect for a move.


There's a follow-up comment on there about a terrible choice and a bad stadium location. Sounds like Miami, doesn't it (i.e., none of the three cities mentioned in the original post)

sounds like Collinsville (St.Louis) to me. Miami is out of the running. They missed the deadline on their stadium. The City was going to kick in funds and property if they found an owner who would chip in the rest. They didn't, now it's over, and everyone can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

[Stryker]

Yet another stunning development:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6434/newspaperxr4.jpg

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

:drunk:
:D

[brando]

If MLS Rumors is correct (and we all know how dodgy that is) then it has to be at least Vancouver and probably Portland. The article mentions that one of the teams has something along with the deal that is a, "terrible decision". That has to be Vancouver and the plans to play in a reno-ed cavernous BC Place. Now, I con't see MLS putting 2 CDN teams in at onec, so it's have to be Portland for the other one.....IF MLS Rumors is on point.

[boban]

Don;t we have Canadian rights to the MLS until the 2011 season?

or. . . Am I off a wee bit.

COME ON PORTLAND!
TFC has it until the end of the 2009 season.

[Lucky Strike]

Am I the only who thinks that Montreal is a lock for the MLS (setting MLS rumors aside)? They have the stadium, the team and it wouldn't be a drain on the talent pool (no matter how wide it is). They might need 3 or 4 players to upgrade here and there, but that'd be it.

[Beach_Red]

Am I the only who thinks that Montreal is a lock for the MLS (setting MLS rumors aside)? They have the stadium, the team and it wouldn't be a drain on the talent pool (no matter how wide it is). They might need 3 or 4 players to upgrade here and there, but that'd be it.

If they've got the money it does seem like there'd be some serious questioning if they don't get a team. What more could they do?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Yep, they've got the stadium and plans in place to expand it when they get an MLS team, not to mention enough financial support, with Saputo and George Gillette behind the bid. Vancouver probably realize they aren't as prepared as Montreal, and that's why they're making such a huge push now, with Steve Nash and everything. I think the key for them is getting that waterfront stadium built, or at least have the damn city of Vancouver approve it.

[Don Julio]

Montreal doesn't have an MLS stadium, and their lineup is being extremely overrated in this thread.

[Redcoe15]

Montreal doesn't have an MLS stadium, and their lineup is being extremely overrated in this thread.
Their stadium seats about 13,000. But they have blueprints stored away that can expand to meet MLS standards. Once they are granted a team they can begin the process in no time.

I wouldn't trust MLS Rumors to give me the weather report. I think St. Louis is a lock for one of the next expansion teams. They already have their stadium deal in place. All Jeff Cooper needs now are some more investors. And, from the latest news, he's got that one pretty much sown up.

[Redcoe15]

Yet another stunning development:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6434/newspaperxr4.jpg
:party:

[Draracle]

:party:
Dancing because Bill Archer died?

[WHITEY]

During the All Star Game, Nash played in the Media game, Nash was at field level during the game, Nash was in the booth with CBC during the game talking about his new partnership and how he's putting in his own money so on and so forth; basically was all over the place during the All Star game. The very next day he officially announces his partnership with the Whitecaps and how much of his own money he his putting into investing. I don't think he would be doing all of this unless he got some assurances from Garber during his meetings with him during All Star week. Vancouver is getting in, in my opinion.

[DigzTFC!]

Prediction is Montreal and St.Louis. Full Stop. Run the presses

[Draracle]

During the All Star Game, Nash played in the Media game, Nash was at field level during the game, Nash was in the booth with CBC during the game talking about his new partnership and how he's putting in his own money so on and so forth; basically was all over the place during the All Star game. The very next day he officially announces his partnership with the Whitecaps and how much of his own money he his putting into investing. I don't think he would be doing all of this unless he got some assurances from Garber during his meetings with him during All Star week. Vancouver is getting in, in my opinion.

I don't think he is a sure shot, he just wants it bad.

Vancouver and Montreal are the two BEST choices. But they aren't American cities. I think we will get one city, but the publicity of an American city won't be denied. A lesser prospect in the US will be chosen because of this. Portland is the best choice.

[james]

Give Montreal and Portland a team!

Give Vancouver a team once they sort out there stadium shit, i dont wanna see them play at shitty BC Place.

[TFC USA]

How did you do that?


Photoshop?

[Angelo1405]

sounds really good....montral + portland + (maybe st louis) is all the mls needs (for now)

[bones]

Am I the only one that thinks that Montreal's wonderful stadium is a piece of crap??? Yes, I went to Montreal for the game, yes I saw natural grass....oohhh it's nice, but it's just grass. The rest of the stadium is not that good. It's only 13k now and will need major changes to make it 18+k. Did everyone remember walking under the stadium seats between the fences surrounded by dirt and rocks, come on it's bush league. (yes the grass is nice) How about having to walk to the other side to take a piss???

Having said that, how do MTL/VAN's teams look roster wise if they're forced to have the same rules we're forced to have?

Good job on the photoshop though :)

Bones...

[Keystone FC]

Yet another stunning development:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6434/newspaperxr4.jpg


Actually, Bill was found dead wearing a Crew jersey, but some of his neighbors changed him out of the kit and into the womens clothing so his family wouldn't be embarassed.:D

[Fort York Redcoat]

It seems to me that MLS may choose only one Canada team in this expansion. I'd prefer to see Montreal for rivalry (and the league stability). If any other teams fail in the US, as it looks likely, they can relocate to 'couver. solved.

[Blizzard]

They wouldnt have 2 west teams and they wouldnt have 2 canadian teams. So, this suggests Portland and Montreal. But why did they include Vancouver? This is crap if you think about it.

The rivalry of Portland Timber, Vancouver Whitecaps and Seattle Sounders would be awesome! Great vintage names too!

[Lucky Strike]

It seems to me that MLS may choose only one Canada team in this expansion. I'd prefer to see Montreal for rivalry (and the league stability). If any other teams fail in the US, as it looks likely, they can relocate to 'couver. solved.

I'd prefer Montreal over Vancouver as well but as I'm sure all of us feel, we'd rather have both in MLS. As for the two I think are most likely, I still say Montreal and either St. Louis (which has relaunched its bid by acquiring the final piece to the investor puzzle) or Portland (which would have a good rivalry with Sounders FC.

[Redcoe15]

Montreal, Vancouver, Portland, St. Louis. Agreed all would make fine MLS additions. But don't be surprised if some undeserving city or two end up with the franchises. The league would love to have a second team in New York for national television and revenue purposes. And the league also wants a team or two in the U.S. southeast, so Atlanta and/or Miami will be given serious considerations.

And the big thing that works against both Montreal and Vancouver is that they're Canadian cities. I'm sure everyone is aware of how much a vocal minority of American soccer fans don't want Canadian teams in "their" league and would like it if Canada had its own league.

And, not to be an alarmist or a contrarian but, speaking of a second New York team:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=737627

[Vindaloo]

Portland doesn't have a chance in hell against Van and Mont.

Portland ownership do not have a solid stadium plan. Even though Vancouver is still sorting theirs out, at least the Caps will HAVE a new refurbished $200-300m Stadium(Seattle anyone?) to play in until their SSS is built. And it will be built.

Portland don't have anything close. The ownership needs to completely overhaul and convert their existing baseball stadium into a SSS but owner needs the city/tax dollars to either pay for it or the huge expansion fee, as well the city needs to pay for a completely new baseball stadium on top of all this for the baseball team they boot out of the current spot. 1 new baseball stadium and 1 converted baseball stadium with tax money all wrapped up in it! Surely the Caps playing at BC Place temporarily is better than a crappy converted baseball stadium in the eyes of MLS.

The ownership is no where even near what the PRIVATE investor groups have going in Van and Mont. The "terrible choice" in the MLS Rumors piece is undoubtedly Portland.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Montreal doesn't have an MLS stadium, and their lineup is being extremely overrated in this thread.
If you've seen pictures, it's essentially a three-sided stadium. They're planning to add a stand behind one of the goals to raise the capacity, as well as renovate other areas, I'm sure.