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canadian_bhoy
08-08-2008, 07:39 AM
Some adult Celtic fans got busted at a friendly the other day for using Concession Tickets (i.e. Kids price).

Now, everywhere you go in Toronto (other than pro sports) there is a price for the adults and price for kids - why is this not applied to pro sports and TFC? (other than the obvious $$$)

I'd like to hear what people think on this - Should TFC have childrens "Concession" pricing? Should it be limited to X # of seats? With their automated ticket checker, they wouldn't have the problem of adults gaining access with a kids ticket.

Here's an example:

celtic v st mirren

sunday, august 10, ko 12.30

Tickets for this match go on sale on Tuesday, July 15 at 10am. Tickets can be purchased online (https://eticketing.co.uk/celtic/), by calling 0871 226 1888 or by visiting the Celtic Ticket Office.
Tickets are priced at £25/£22Restricted View for Adults and £15/£12 Concessions.
Tickets will be available from the following stores from Friday, July 25.
Argyle Street
Sauchiehall Street
Clydebank
Coatbridge
East Kilbride.

The Kingpin
08-08-2008, 07:44 AM
There are also concessions for students as well, and I think this is a great way to attract future supporters. The cost of attending sporting events is rising dramatically, so any community feel project like this would be a great thought. And the fact that we most likely will not have a DP for the foreseeable future, maybe they can use the dollars for this.

stugautz
08-08-2008, 07:48 AM
Why bother...scalpers will just pay this price and resell them. It's pretty tough to attract new fans when the stadium is sold out.

sidvan
08-08-2008, 07:58 AM
they did have kid's pricing on some seasons's tickets

Shakes McQueen
08-08-2008, 08:14 AM
Why bother...scalpers will just pay this price and resell them. It's pretty tough to attract new fans when the stadium is sold out.

I completely agree,. Expand the stadium to the point where tickets are more commonly available for matches through conventional means, and I think this would be a great idea.


Right now though, those tickets would just end up with scalpers.

- Scott

Don Julio
08-08-2008, 08:28 AM
Personally, I feel that a seat is a seat. Same applies to concerts, airplanes - most places where there is a fixed amount of seating/admission in North America. From a business standpoint kids should pay more since they will spend less on food and drink. From a fan standpoint I don't particularly want kids there.

Steve
08-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Personally, I feel that a seat is a seat. Same applies to concerts, airplanes - most places where there is a fixed amount of seating/admission in North America. From a business standpoint kids should pay more since they will spend less on food and drink. From a fan standpoint I don't particularly want kids there.

Yep, a seat's a seat. The only reason to have children's prices is if
A) You're not selling out (not a problem) and
B) You want to increase family traffic (Kids prices are there to attract the parents)

Since that isn't a problem for most sports in TO (except the jays I guess) I don't see children's prices being implemented.

Rhapido
08-08-2008, 09:08 AM
Season ticket holders in certain sections (I think it's just the more expensive ones) have the option of buying their seats at a discounted "youth" rate -- pretty sure that it works out to about 50% of regular. The tickets last year were indentical on their face; this year, the "youth" tickets were marked with a small display of the word "YOUTH".

Tintin
08-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Personally, I feel that a seat is a seat. Same applies to concerts, airplanes - most places where there is a fixed amount of seating/admission in North America. From a business standpoint kids should pay more since they will spend less on food and drink. From a fan standpoint I don't particularly want kids there.


Why don't you want Kids there. We need to have kids to assure a fan renewal. TFC is popular now but you have to prepare for the future.

Super
08-08-2008, 09:19 AM
The tickets would just end up in the hands of scalpers, so why the heck bother. Besides, the stadium is sold out already. The 3,000+ tickets available to each game is up for grabs to anyone who wants to go, and quite frankly I already see a ton of kids at the stadium so I don't really find there is a problem right now.

In a few years we'll expand and then there'll be room for even more kids, and maybe a cheaper rate for kids.

rocker
08-08-2008, 09:20 AM
the question is whether parents really do use that lower price as an incentive to bring kids.

personally, I see a lot of people bringing kids to games anyways. A guy behind me has about 4 seats and sometimes he brings adult friends, sometimes he brings his kids. I don't think it makes a difference to him what the price for the seat is.
Same with the south end -- the seats are so cheap anyways, that there's probably no extra incentive there to bring kids if the prices were $8 or something. Kids rarely have the money to buy their own seats, so generally it's the financial capability of the adult that determines whether they will attend.

Unless the adult is planning to go alone due to the adult price cost of the second seat, the kid price probably doesn't make a difference in whether the kid can attend or not.

joel
08-08-2008, 09:30 AM
There were youth tickets for season's...

Kevvv
08-08-2008, 09:47 AM
Season ticket holders in certain sections (I think it's just the more expensive ones) have the option of buying their seats at a discounted "youth" rate -- pretty sure that it works out to about 50% of regular. The tickets last year were indentical on their face; this year, the "youth" tickets were marked with a small display of the word "YOUTH".

The discount is about 10%, more or less.

Cashcleaner
08-08-2008, 10:10 AM
Is always a good idea to market to kids, as they will be our future supporters. That said, it's not really neccesary at the moment when we're already filling up the stadium and have a couple thousand on the waiting list.

egoodwin
08-08-2008, 10:28 AM
I say no

BMO is a stadium not a daycare

I don't want anything that encourages people further to bring their over protected brats to the game

denime
08-08-2008, 10:35 AM
There was a kids rate offered for STH but not in cheap sections.
Kids are future supporters and only way to make this game bigger in Toronto and Canada is trough the kids.We are not getting younger and sooner or latter supporters sections will need face lift we new younger supporters,like it or not but there is no way around.

ensco
08-08-2008, 10:52 AM
I have kids STH and it makes a difference, it was a big part of why I got seat to begin with, and why I got 4 and not just 2 seats

Parkdale
08-08-2008, 10:57 AM
dude.... you want a kids priced ticket - go to the zoo.

As a STH, I would be absolutely pissed to find that the seat right next to mine was sold for less money than mine was, ESPECIALLY if it was always Dad's Buddy in the seat instead of the child who got the seat discount.

Carts
08-08-2008, 11:04 AM
For tickets to a game, a child should pay the same as an adult - as they are watching the same product...

As for food and stuff at the stadium, there should be a difference, but not age - based on size of the product...

I think they should have "small" and "large" options for food - just like drinks everywhere...

If I go to a restaurant, and I'm not that hungry, I'd like to be able to order a 'half portion' or something like that...

At the stadium, they can have 'regular' and 'jumbo' hotdogs... Small & large burgers... etc etc etc...

Every venue, restaurant etc should offer 'smaller' portions at a lesser price... Kids can order them, so can adults that are watching how much they eat or just aren't that hungry...

But as for the ticket in, same price across the board...

Carts...

Parkdale
08-08-2008, 11:06 AM
^ so the kids can get an 8oz beer instead of the 20oz cup?

TheHollister
08-08-2008, 11:07 AM
^ so the kids can get an 8oz beer instead of the 20oz cup?
Yes please! :D

Beach_Red
08-08-2008, 11:10 AM
You know, I hear all the time people saying how it's too expensive these days to take their kids to a sporting event - usually it's about the Leafs - and about the need to attract the supporters of tomorrow.

Well, I don't know when this golden era of parents and kids at sports events took place in Canada, but by the 70's when I was a kid in Montreal and I'd get to go to two hockey games a year (usually both against the California Golden Seals) there were almost no kids in the Forum. I'm told that in the 50's I wouldn't have even gotten to the two games and the place was completely adult. In every old black and white picture of supporters at a sporting event I've ever seen, it's been nothing but adults, and even then almost all men.

I think this "family outing" to pro sports events is revisionist history (or maybe baseball, which is really a "pastime" afterall). Pro sports have always been pretty much adult outings and I don't mind that.

Now, having said that, I've taken my kids to a couple of TFC games and we had a great time and I want to take them to more. They already know how to swear, but they're open to learning more...

A seat is a seat, it costs what it costs.

james
08-08-2008, 11:13 AM
i dont want kids pricing because then you would see a huge increase in kids attending games and it would be come more of a family outting with soccer moms.

In England back sometime in the 80's not sure what exact year, you had to be 18 or older to attend matches because of how dangerous it was for kids with the huge hooligan problems and all. But this didnt last long. However when the 90's came and all seaters came in they were pushing to try and attract more kids and families to attend matches, and im pretty sure cheaper kid pricing helped attract more kids.

Parkdale
08-08-2008, 11:14 AM
agreed with Beach Red.

there was a time when kids stayed at home until they were well behaved enough to do adult things. I remember when I was about 4 and my parents took me out to dinner. They explained to me that it was an 'adult dinner' and I would have to be on my best behavior. I'm not sure if this happens anymore. I see bratty kids running around everywhere and ruining what should be an 'adult activity'. Sporting events are not good babysitters. If you want that, take the kid to a Marlies game.

Shaughno
08-08-2008, 11:15 AM
You know, I hear all the time people saying how it's too expensive these days to take their kids to a sporting event - usually it's about the Leafs - and about the need to attract the supporters of tomorrow.

Well, I don't know when this golden era of parents and kids at sports events took place in Canada, but by the 70's when I was a kid in Montreal and I'd get to go to two hockey games a year (usually both against the California Golden Seals) there were almost no kids in the Forum. I'm told that in the 50's I wouldn't have even gotten to the two games and the place was completely adult. In every old black and white picture of supporters at a sporting event I've ever seen, it's been nothing but adults, and even then almost all men.

I think this "family outing" to pro sports events is revisionist history (or maybe baseball, which is really a "pastime" afterall). Pro sports have always been pretty much adult outings and I don't mind that.

Now, having said that, I've taken my kids to a couple of TFC games and we had a great time and I want to take them to more. They already know how to swear, but they're open to learning more...

A seat is a seat, it costs what it costs.


Just end the thread, perfect post.

Steve
08-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Is always a good idea to market to kids, as they will be our future supporters. That said, it's not really neccesary at the moment when we're already filling up the stadium and have a couple thousand on the waiting list.

That's just faulty reasoning.

Sure, marketing to kids will attract a certain demographic: Kids and parents of small kids. However, the more you cater to kids (creating a disney atmosphere) the more you turn off people who are young, but no longer children. You miss the middle half of your demographic (and those most likely to have the time and money for season's tickets).

Do you think marketing to adults will in some way turn the kids off? Or ensure they won't become fans when they grow up? Seriously? What kind of kid were you? Most kids (especially past a certain age) want to be MORE grown up. They want to "be a big boy/girl". As they grow up, they will be much more likely to become lifelong fans if they see it as adult entertainment, than as something for kids. Let me ask you, when was the last time you went to Chuck-e-cheeze? They have a great kids marketing program.

Essentially, target the adults and the kids will follow. It will grow as it should, with the children of fans becoming fans themselves, and going to games with their father (err, or mother). Not as a day for a kids soccer team to go see some kiddy entertainment.

rocker
08-08-2008, 11:21 AM
for me as a kid, what turned me on to sports was TV. I watched lots of TV sports and actually didn't attend a lot of matches myself. Not because the prices were too high (tickets were cheap back then) but because my parents were not interested in hockey or baseball. Yet I still became a huge fan of the Leafs and Blue Jays. So just because a kid can't get to the games doesn't mean he won't become a fan.

Now, the funny thing is, as an adult I rarely go to Leafs or Blue Jays games. Why? My tastes changed. as I grew older I moved away from those sports and into soccer.

I would say that part of the massive rise in soccer interest here in the past 10 years has come from young people's introduction to the sport through television. I know a lot of guys with man U shirts who have never set foot in England ;)

jaahuuu
08-08-2008, 12:06 PM
There are also concessions for students as well, and I think this is a great way to attract future supporters. The cost of attending sporting events is rising dramatically, so any community feel project like this would be a great thought. And the fact that we most likely will not have a DP for the foreseeable future, maybe they can use the dollars for this.
That's why they shouldn't have children's tickets. Selling lower price kids tix will only cause the price of my "adult" tickets to go up, so they can make the same profit.

jaahuuu
08-08-2008, 12:10 PM
for me as a kid, what turned me on to sports was TV. I watched lots of TV sports and actually didn't attend a lot of matches myself. Not because the prices were too high (tickets were cheap back then) but because my parents were not interested in hockey or baseball. Yet I still became a huge fan of the Leafs and Blue Jays. So just because a kid can't get to the games doesn't mean he won't become a fan.
I agree, I didn't go to my first NHL game until I was 18, and my first soccer game until I was 22, now I'm 25 and a TFC STH and go to about a dozen NHL games a year. Baseball's another story, I was going to Buffalo Bisons games when I was 4.

denime
08-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Most of you are jealous because aether you don't have a kid or you don't have a ST. :p
I have both and I don't have problem with that.I did pay full price for my kid,since South stand did not offer Kids tickets.As far kid going to a game,all depend how many are in stadium.I'm sure my 9 years old kid knows more about soccer than half of BMO Field,but that my kid,soccer fanatic like daddy,maybe spoiled but TFC Supporter forever :)

Canadian Blue
08-08-2008, 01:33 PM
everyone should pay the same no matter your age you are still taking a seat. If kids pay less what about little people that are vertically challenged......should they pay less to?

giambac
08-08-2008, 03:52 PM
they did have kid's pricing on some seasons's tickets


Seasons tickets do have discounte dprices for youths (under 16 I believe)

Pryu
08-08-2008, 06:23 PM
No discounts for kids.

Carts
08-08-2008, 06:33 PM
^ so the kids can get an 8oz beer instead of the 20oz cup?

ABSOLUTELY :D

Carts...

James Oliphant
08-08-2008, 07:16 PM
Why bother...scalpers will just pay this price and resell them.

Thread over.

egoodwin
08-08-2008, 08:59 PM
two concerns regarding kids

- altering the way the game is presented to be more kid friendly and to keep their attention...
- and 2. over protective parents who blame others for their lack of parenting skills

BC101
08-08-2008, 09:02 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2418630279_81f11667b4.jpg?v=0

Rocco
08-08-2008, 09:33 PM
should be all the same prices i think.

andyc
08-08-2008, 11:41 PM
The opinion on this will of course vary depending on age and lifestage. If I were to be early 20's with no thoughts of kids or family of course I would think that discounts for kids were ridiculous. If I happened to be 65 I'd be looking for a seniors discount...

I happen to be somewhere between those ages with 2 kids aged 9 + 10 so you could probably guess my opinion but let's give my reasoning a try....

I bought seasons tickets reasonably early in one of the front few rows of section 106. There have since been several "106 fans are crap" threads, but being from the UK and having some experience of football stadiums I decided that this area would be about right for youngish kids.

As an aside, I don't remember kids being banned from stadiums in the UK in the 80's as per a previous thread. I certainly attended in various grounds and sections from terraces to seated prawn sandwich areas. I do remember lots of conversations with other kids when one of us got to see a game live. TV is good but live really does impress your mates... :D

Anyways when I signed up for season tickets my plan was to buy 2 and take my kids to alternate games. When I called up my ticket rep and he told me about youth pricing I decided to go for three since the 50% discount available gave me the ability to get three tickets in the area I wanted for the right budget. Everyone is happy right??

Before I get called a cheapskate and worse, remember I was still paying $1600 for 1 adult and 2 youth tickets. How much did you guys pay in the supporters section??? This is where I have a big issue with the concept of all tickets should be one price comments. Tickets are clearly not all one price... They range from $200+ to $1200+ roughly... And don't try and tell me they are more expensive because they were better, because if I offer to trade my 106 tickets for bunker tickets I don't think that there would be many takers.

Variable pricing is as real a concept for supporters seats vs. prawn eater seats as it is for adult vs. youth pricing....

So why do I think that youth discounts are good despite a full stadium?

1 - All you single folks, wait 5-10 years and see how it feels to pay for 3 tickets out of one salary. The discounts are there to make it affordable for people to bring their kids.
2 - Longevity of the Toronto support - At some point the demographics of the existing season ticket holder has to change. There will be competing pressures for time and money. Maybe you won't be able to stand and jump the entire game. Maybe you'll just get fed up of Mo and stop attending... We need to bring up the next generation. Watching the game on TV will make you want to attend a live game occasionally. Being there as you grow up makes this part of your life and you end up living and breathing your club.
3 - Passing on the knowledge - Do you think the folks who go to Liverpool and stand in the kop started going to games once they passed 21?? We keep complaining how ignorant the casuals are - what a better way to start educating people and embedding the passion than starting early?
4 - This is MY personal reason - I get to spend 3+ hours with my kids on game days with a shared passion for around 20 games a year. At this age I see my kids a whole lot but I'm hoping that I'm planting a seed that will last for decades. Maybe we'll move around the stadium. Maybe we'll add or subtract tickets but I sincerly hope that is becomes a lifelong passion for my family.

Just my 2 cents...

The Kingpin
08-09-2008, 02:09 AM
The opinion on this will of course vary depending on age and lifestage. If I were to be early 20's with no thoughts of kids or family of course I would think that discounts for kids were ridiculous. If I happened to be 65 I'd be looking for a seniors discount...

I happen to be somewhere between those ages with 2 kids aged 9 + 10 so you could probably guess my opinion but let's give my reasoning a try....

I bought seasons tickets reasonably early in one of the front few rows of section 106. There have since been several "106 fans are crap" threads, but being from the UK and having some experience of football stadiums I decided that this area would be about right for youngish kids.

As an aside, I don't remember kids being banned from stadiums in the UK in the 80's as per a previous thread. I certainly attended in various grounds and sections from terraces to seated prawn sandwich areas. I do remember lots of conversations with other kids when one of us got to see a game live. TV is good but live really does impress your mates... :D

Anyways when I signed up for season tickets my plan was to buy 2 and take my kids to alternate games. When I called up my ticket rep and he told me about youth pricing I decided to go for three since the 50% discount available gave me the ability to get three tickets in the area I wanted for the right budget. Everyone is happy right??

Before I get called a cheapskate and worse, remember I was still paying $1600 for 1 adult and 2 youth tickets. How much did you guys pay in the supporters section??? This is where I have a big issue with the concept of all tickets should be one price comments. Tickets are clearly not all one price... They range from $200+ to $1200+ roughly... And don't try and tell me they are more expensive because they were better, because if I offer to trade my 106 tickets for bunker tickets I don't think that there would be many takers.

Variable pricing is as real a concept for supporters seats vs. prawn eater seats as it is for adult vs. youth pricing....

So why do I think that youth discounts are good despite a full stadium?

1 - All you single folks, wait 5-10 years and see how it feels to pay for 3 tickets out of one salary. The discounts are there to make it affordable for people to bring their kids.
2 - Longevity of the Toronto support - At some point the demographics of the existing season ticket holder has to change. There will be competing pressures for time and money. Maybe you won't be able to stand and jump the entire game. Maybe you'll just get fed up of Mo and stop attending... We need to bring up the next generation. Watching the game on TV will make you want to attend a live game occasionally. Being there as you grow up makes this part of your life and you end up living and breathing your club.
3 - Passing on the knowledge - Do you think the folks who go to Liverpool and stand in the kop started going to games once they passed 21?? We keep complaining how ignorant the casuals are - what a better way to start educating people and embedding the passion than starting early?
4 - This is MY personal reason - I get to spend 3+ hours with my kids on game days with a shared passion for around 20 games a year. At this age I see my kids a whole lot but I'm hoping that I'm planting a seed that will last for decades. Maybe we'll move around the stadium. Maybe we'll add or subtract tickets but I sincerly hope that is becomes a lifelong passion for my family.

Just my 2 cents...

This is worth for more that "2 cents", I hope this proves to be an eye opener to those who said tickets all should be the same price. I remember talking to Matty of Soccer 360 with CB & Cash and saying something along the lines that this is "about dreams" referencing "one day we may be chanting the name of some child who has grown up watching TFC". This has always been what it's about, fostering young fans and talent for the future. A think at times people need to be far less short sighted, and assess the long term vision of what it means to be a supporter. We all seem to dream that Soccer/Football will one day have a prominent placement in the sporting minds of others, but we then admonish any promotion that will implement the notion.

Cashcleaner
08-09-2008, 02:42 AM
^ Exactly. No club can exist for long without a younger generation that's interested in spectating and participating. All that starts with a single game and we need to recognise that fact.

King Tut
08-11-2008, 04:44 AM
i dont want kids pricing because then you would see a huge increase in kids attending games and it would be come more of a family outting with soccer moms.

Agreed. Also, a seat is a seat as a few mentioned. There should be one standard price. Charge differently by sections obviously, but have a standard price for each section.

The Kingpin
08-11-2008, 08:46 AM
Agreed. Also, a seat is a seat as a few mentioned. There should be one standard price. Charge differently by sections obviously, but have a standard price for each section.

If you read the two posts above you will will quickly realise this is very short sighted thinking. The NBA/Basketball rebuilt their league/sport based on the notion of getting children involved and to games. Basketball is now the fastest growing sport on the planet. If you want football to gain in popularity and have fans in the future, you need to make concessions now. It's marketing 101.

giambac
08-11-2008, 09:43 AM
The opinion on this will of course vary depending on age and lifestage. If I were to be early 20's with no thoughts of kids or family of course I would think that discounts for kids were ridiculous. If I happened to be 65 I'd be looking for a seniors discount...

I happen to be somewhere between those ages with 2 kids aged 9 + 10 so you could probably guess my opinion but let's give my reasoning a try....

I bought seasons tickets reasonably early in one of the front few rows of section 106. There have since been several "106 fans are crap" threads, but being from the UK and having some experience of football stadiums I decided that this area would be about right for youngish kids.

As an aside, I don't remember kids being banned from stadiums in the UK in the 80's as per a previous thread. I certainly attended in various grounds and sections from terraces to seated prawn sandwich areas. I do remember lots of conversations with other kids when one of us got to see a game live. TV is good but live really does impress your mates... :D

Anyways when I signed up for season tickets my plan was to buy 2 and take my kids to alternate games. When I called up my ticket rep and he told me about youth pricing I decided to go for three since the 50% discount available gave me the ability to get three tickets in the area I wanted for the right budget. Everyone is happy right??

Before I get called a cheapskate and worse, remember I was still paying $1600 for 1 adult and 2 youth tickets. How much did you guys pay in the supporters section??? This is where I have a big issue with the concept of all tickets should be one price comments. Tickets are clearly not all one price... They range from $200+ to $1200+ roughly... And don't try and tell me they are more expensive because they were better, because if I offer to trade my 106 tickets for bunker tickets I don't think that there would be many takers.

Variable pricing is as real a concept for supporters seats vs. prawn eater seats as it is for adult vs. youth pricing....

So why do I think that youth discounts are good despite a full stadium?

1 - All you single folks, wait 5-10 years and see how it feels to pay for 3 tickets out of one salary. The discounts are there to make it affordable for people to bring their kids.
2 - Longevity of the Toronto support - At some point the demographics of the existing season ticket holder has to change. There will be competing pressures for time and money. Maybe you won't be able to stand and jump the entire game. Maybe you'll just get fed up of Mo and stop attending... We need to bring up the next generation. Watching the game on TV will make you want to attend a live game occasionally. Being there as you grow up makes this part of your life and you end up living and breathing your club.
3 - Passing on the knowledge - Do you think the folks who go to Liverpool and stand in the kop started going to games once they passed 21?? We keep complaining how ignorant the casuals are - what a better way to start educating people and embedding the passion than starting early?
4 - This is MY personal reason - I get to spend 3+ hours with my kids on game days with a shared passion for around 20 games a year. At this age I see my kids a whole lot but I'm hoping that I'm planting a seed that will last for decades. Maybe we'll move around the stadium. Maybe we'll add or subtract tickets but I sincerly hope that is becomes a lifelong passion for my family.

Just my 2 cents...

Great post and all your arguments are valid.
I also have 2 kids and attened all games/matches.
The young generation will carry on the tradition of football in this city. Both my kids play rep football and going to watc the games live at BMO just increases their love for the game.

It seems the only people complaining are the ones sitting in the supporters section who are paying next to nothing for their seats.

If a seat is a seat and a kid should pay the same as an adult then a seat is a seat and the supporter section should be paying more than $200 for seasons.

Parkdale
08-11-2008, 09:48 AM
It seems the only people complaining are the ones sitting in the supporters section who are paying next to nothing for their seats.



it's been like that for a long time (the cheap seats complaining about costs).
It's crazy to think that your beer is more expensive than your ticket (one large draft per half).

Fort York Redcoat
08-11-2008, 10:42 AM
If it means I pay more so someone else's kids get in I won't be that impressed...so just tell me it's inflation and do it anyway.:)

Parkdale
08-11-2008, 10:49 AM
sorry, but we live in a pay-to-play world.

I totally agree that kids should be at games, which will develop a new generation of fans,
but they should be paying what a seat is worth. Make that, their parents should be paying.
TFC tickets are still the best deal in professional sports in this town, so it's not like paying
hundreds to take the family to a leafs game. It's already a reasonable ticket.

jm5k
08-11-2008, 11:24 AM
Great post and all your arguments are valid.
I also have 2 kids and attened all games/matches.
The young generation will carry on the tradition of football in this city. Both my kids play rep football and going to watc the games live at BMO just increases their love for the game.

It seems the only people complaining are the ones sitting in the supporters section who are paying next to nothing for their seats.

If a seat is a seat and a kid should pay the same as an adult then a seat is a seat and the supporter section should be paying more than $200 for seasons.

This doesn't make sense. Explain to me the correlation between age and vantage point?? I mean, that's what dicates a price difference in seats right? Your view of the game, with an increase in quality (direction relative to pitch, distance from field etc) directly relating to an increase in price. Does a child somehow get a difference view and/or experience from the identical seat? You are paying for the seat you are in, not admission to the stadium. Several people seem to be confusing these two completely seperate things.

The truth is that parents like cheaper child seats because they have kids (and are the only ones that benefit), and there is no relation or any grounds to point fingers at south end supporters vs side-line STHs.

I can understand wanting cheaper seats to take their kids - who wouldn't want that - , but what I can't agree with is people getting x % off simply because they have kids when the stadium is sold out every game and everyone else pays more.

Besides, people using the "protect and embrace the fans of tomorrow" are completely off-side. How many Leafs fans have ever been to a game? How many Man U fans even know the name of the pitch they play at? I'm all for helping harbor a new generation of fans, but I hardly think picking an outlet that maxes at 20,000 viewers is your best choice.

That's marketing 101 :P

jaahuuu
08-11-2008, 12:22 PM
Agreed. Also, a seat is a seat as a few mentioned. There should be one standard price. Charge differently by sections obviously, but have a standard price for each section.
I agree, FYI - I have seasons in the same level as andyc ($800 per seat). I would rather see prices lowered across the board, rather than lower prices for children. I still stand by what I said earlier that if TFC were to start selling child tickets, they would have to raise the price of adult tickets to make up for the revenue loss on the child tickets.

giambac
08-11-2008, 01:23 PM
This doesn't make sense. Explain to me the correlation between age and vantage point?? I mean, that's what dicates a price difference in seats right? Your view of the game, with an increase in quality (direction relative to pitch, distance from field etc) directly relating to an increase in price. Does a child somehow get a difference view and/or experience from the identical seat? You are paying for the seat you are in, not admission to the stadium. Several people seem to be confusing these two completely seperate things.

The truth is that parents like cheaper child seats because they have kids (and are the only ones that benefit), and there is no relation or any grounds to point fingers at south end supporters vs side-line STHs.

I can understand wanting cheaper seats to take their kids - who wouldn't want that - , but what I can't agree with is people getting x % off simply because they have kids when the stadium is sold out every game and everyone else pays more.

Besides, people using the "protect and embrace the fans of tomorrow" are completely off-side. How many Leafs fans have ever been to a game? How many Man U fans even know the name of the pitch they play at? I'm all for helping harbor a new generation of fans, but I hardly think picking an outlet that maxes at 20,000 viewers is your best choice.

That's marketing 101 :P


I don't buy your argument at all

I personally have 4 seasons
2 s223 at $1,600/pair ($800 each)
2 supporters section $340/pair ($170/each)

I believe the kids cost in my section 223 is half the price i.e $400/each. That $400 is still alot greater than the the costs in the supporters section. the one kid seat at $400 is more than the cost of 2 seats in the supporters section ($340/pair). Don't give me the bullshit about vantage point. I mean I understand charging more depending on seat location but this is ridiculous. It isn't the kids seats which are being subsidized. It's the supporters section which is being subsidized and inflating the prices of all the oter seats in the stadium.

I have an idea for you.

Charge kids the same price as adults but also increase the costs in the supporters section. $170 for 17 games (15 regular and 2 friendlies is a joke). And like I said I have 2 tickets in the supporters section also but I still think the costs of these seats are to low.

jm5k
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
I don't buy your argument at all

I personally have 4 seasons
2 s223 at $1,600/pair ($800 each)
2 supporters section $340/pair ($170/each)

I believe the kids cost in my section 223 is half the price i.e $400/each. That $400 is still alot greater than the the costs in the supporters section. the one kid seat at $400 is more than the cost of 2 seats in the supporters section ($340/pair). Don't give me the bullshit about vantage point. I mean I understand charging more depending on seat location but this is ridiculous. It isn't the kids seats which are being subsidized. It's the supporters section which is being subsidized and inflating the prices of all the oter seats in the stadium.

I have an idea for you.

Charge kids the same price as adults but also increase the costs in the supporters section. $170 for 17 games (15 regular and 2 friendlies is a joke). And like I said I have 2 tickets in the supporters section also but I still think the costs of these seats are to low.

I don't have ST in the south end, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up to me. Infact, I have had tickets in almost every single section in the stadium (whatever I can get my hands on, which usually involve a premium + handling fees) so relax with the finger-pointing.

If it's not vantage point, what else do you call it? The Bills come to town and the expensive seats are literally 10-15x that of the cheapest. Is this a ploy to fill the stadium and bleed the rich? What are you paying for? Say what you want about pricing but tickets tucked up and behind the net are typically the least-favoured and priced accordingly. Now add in that you miss literally half of the action, and are required to stand the entire game and are surrounded by intoxicated people with flags, banners, drums etc who scream and chant the entire game? If you're not a big fan these seats suck for you and are not even remotely worth the 'discount' applied for said area. Now really, are you upset at the cost of the tickets for that area, or that they are that cheap because it is a 'supporter' section? Would they remain that price if a north tier was built and the supporters moved there? If so, would you still be upset?

The supporter section was created to allow the die-hard fan the ability to come to every game, and like-minded fans to gather together. The tickets will always be the cheapest in the stadium weither TFC is playing or Celine Dion is and why? Because they are the worst seats.

The fact that you think that sitting next to a kid who's seat costs half what yours did is 'OK', yet have direct issue with the reduced cost of 'cheapy' seats used to house the supporters boggles the mind.

giambac
08-11-2008, 06:56 PM
I don't have ST in the south end, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up to me. Infact, I have had tickets in almost every single section in the stadium (whatever I can get my hands on, which usually involve a premium + handling fees) so relax with the finger-pointing.

If it's not vantage point, what else do you call it? The Bills come to town and the expensive seats are literally 10-15x that of the cheapest. Is this a ploy to fill the stadium and bleed the rich? What are you paying for? Say what you want about pricing but tickets tucked up and behind the net are typically the least-favoured and priced accordingly. Now add in that you miss literally half of the action, and are required to stand the entire game and are surrounded by intoxicated people with flags, banners, drums etc who scream and chant the entire game? If you're not a big fan these seats suck for you and are not even remotely worth the 'discount' applied for said area. Now really, are you upset at the cost of the tickets for that area, or that they are that cheap because it is a 'supporter' section? Would they remain that price if a north tier was built and the supporters moved there? If so, would you still be upset?

The supporter section was created to allow the die-hard fan the ability to come to every game, and like-minded fans to gather together. The tickets will always be the cheapest in the stadium weither TFC is playing or Celine Dion is and why? Because they are the worst seats.

The fact that you think that sitting next to a kid who's seat costs half what yours did is 'OK', yet have direct issue with the reduced cost of 'cheapy' seats used to house the supporters boggles the mind.


Let's be realistic here.

If you've been to BMO field you know that it is a soccer stadium with only 20k seats. There isn't a bad seat in the house. I've sat in all areas of the stadium and there really isn't a bad seat in the house. I'm not sure why you would say the supporters section are terrible seats. My seats are 10 rows behind the net and they are great seats and the view is awesome. So don't tell me that's the reason why the seats are so cheap. Yes I agree that they aren't as good as my section 223 seats, however how can MLSE justify charging me 4 times as much as a suppoteres section seat ($800 vs $400). Theres is no way they are worth 4 timeas as much. If they were, I would galdly trade one of my s223 seats for 4 supporters seats?????

Also it's total bullshit to say all the die hard fans sit in the supporters section. There are die hard fans throughout the stadium. At the end of the day there were only so much supportes seats offered so others had to purchase more expensive seats.

jm5k
08-12-2008, 07:16 AM
Let's be realistic here.

If you've been to BMO field you know that it is a soccer stadium with only 20k seats. There isn't a bad seat in the house. I've sat in all areas of the stadium and there really isn't a bad seat in the house. I'm not sure why you would say the supporters section are terrible seats. My seats are 10 rows behind the net and they are great seats and the view is awesome. So don't tell me that's the reason why the seats are so cheap. Yes I agree that they aren't as good as my section 223 seats, however how can MLSE justify charging me 4 times as much as a suppoteres section seat ($800 vs $400). Theres is no way they are worth 4 timeas as much. If they were, I would galdly trade one of my s223 seats for 4 supporters seats?????

Also it's total bullshit to say all the die hard fans sit in the supporters section. There are die hard fans throughout the stadium. At the end of the day there were only so much supportes seats offered so others had to purchase more expensive seats.

Hey I agree that the expensive seats are too expensive compared to other places and I already agreed that there isn't really a bad seat in the place, nor should there be for a brand new stadium. Every stadium I have ever gone to however has several price points for various areas and it is pretty much universally (excluding boxes) directly related to placement relative to the event. I personally have no problem with downfield seats (read: south end) but it really doesn't offer the best vantage point for soccer versus sideline seats near half (true of pitches in general, true of BMO as well).

As to the diehard fan comment, I never said anything remotely to that effect. I said that the supporters section was created to house diehard fans, but to them assume that I am implying that no other diehard fans exist in the stadium is pure poppycock.

I personally consider myself a pretty rigorous fan and I don't even have organized seats. I would be attacking myself to make a comment like that :hump:

Steve
08-12-2008, 08:06 AM
This thread is getting stupid.

Let's start with this premise "I am not entiteled to anything". Got it? Good.

Why are some seats ridiculously expensive compared to others? Because people will pay. Capitolism. Learn it. You don't get to demand equal value for your dollar from a private enterprise, you just get to make the "buy/no buy" choice.

Also, trying to justify kids prices in the context of the common good is naive. Do kids prices increase the revenue of MLSE? Yes: They have kids prices, No: They don't. They won't give you a kids price because you "can't afford to bring the whole family", they will give it to you if bringing the whole family is advantages to them (in this case, with sell out crowds, it isn't really). TFC is a privately run enterprise, if you want to know what decisions they're going to make, just figure out which option has the best ROI (and I say that with respect, I don't think of greed as a vice).

giambac
08-12-2008, 08:28 AM
This thread is getting stupid.

Let's start with this premise "I am not entiteled to anything". Got it? Good.

Why are some seats ridiculously expensive compared to others? Because people will pay. Capitolism. Learn it. You don't get to demand equal value for your dollar from a private enterprise, you just get to make the "buy/no buy" choice.

Also, trying to justify kids prices in the context of the common good is naive. Do kids prices increase the revenue of MLSE? Yes: They have kids prices, No: They don't. They won't give you a kids price because you "can't afford to bring the whole family", they will give it to you if bringing the whole family is advantages to them (in this case, with sell out crowds, it isn't really). TFC is a privately run enterprise, if you want to know what decisions they're going to make, just figure out which option has the best ROI (and I say that with respect, I don't think of greed as a vice).

MLSE does offer kids prices

And kids do increse ROI. If you know the business, MLSE makes more revenue and a bigger bottom line on other streams of revenue besides ticket sales. You get kids who come to the games. Next thing you know they want soccer jerseys, soccer balls, sweaters etc. They ask for it at the stadium, or for their B-day or Christmas. Their friends have it at school so they want it etc etc etc..... It's called marketingf and the crowd is the younger generation who get their parents to spend money.

That is Capitalism, Marketing, Busines 101.:)

Steve
08-12-2008, 08:36 AM
MLSE does offer kids prices

And kids do increse ROI. If you know the business, MLSE makes more revenue and a bigger bottom line on other streams of revenue besides ticket sales. You get kids who come to the games. Next thing you know they want soccer jerseys, soccer balls, sweaters etc. They ask for it at the stadium, or for their B-day or Christmas. Their friends have it at school so they want it etc etc etc..... It's called marketingf and the crowd is the younger generation who get their parents to spend money.

That is Capitalism, Marketing, Busines 101.:)

Yes, I know MLSE offers kids prices (for season's at least). And yes, kids do bring other benefits. The biggest question is really what the tradeoff is (since many young adults also buy lots of gear). Personally, I haven't done the market research to know exactly what the proper line would be, I have only theory to go by. As for the current kids prices, they were offered before the first season, when MLSE didn't know how big of a success TFC would be, so who knows whether it is a grandfathered rule, or something they will relook at, or something that is still of financial benefit.

And I have no problem with this post of yours, I was more reacting to (what seemed like) a slew of posts that were all "I'm entitled!". No, you're not.

giambac
08-12-2008, 09:04 AM
Yes, I know MLSE offers kids prices (for season's at least). And yes, kids do bring other benefits. The biggest question is really what the tradeoff is (since many young adults also buy lots of gear). Personally, I haven't done the market research to know exactly what the proper line would be, I have only theory to go by. As for the current kids prices, they were offered before the first season, when MLSE didn't know how big of a success TFC would be, so who knows whether it is a grandfathered rule, or something they will relook at, or something that is still of financial benefit.

And I have no problem with this post of yours, I was more reacting to (what seemed like) a slew of posts that were all "I'm entitled!". No, you're not.

Agreed,

No one is entitled to anything

james
08-12-2008, 09:12 PM
The opinion on this will of course vary depending on age and lifestage. If I were to be early 20's with no thoughts of kids or family of course I would think that discounts for kids were ridiculous. If I happened to be 65 I'd be looking for a seniors discount...

I happen to be somewhere between those ages with 2 kids aged 9 + 10 so you could probably guess my opinion but let's give my reasoning a try....

I bought seasons tickets reasonably early in one of the front few rows of section 106. There have since been several "106 fans are crap" threads, but being from the UK and having some experience of football stadiums I decided that this area would be about right for youngish kids.

As an aside, I don't remember kids being banned from stadiums in the UK in the 80's as per a previous thread. I certainly attended in various grounds and sections from terraces to seated prawn sandwich areas. I do remember lots of conversations with other kids when one of us got to see a game live. TV is good but live really does impress your mates... :D

Anyways when I signed up for season tickets my plan was to buy 2 and take my kids to alternate games. When I called up my ticket rep and he told me about youth pricing I decided to go for three since the 50% discount available gave me the ability to get three tickets in the area I wanted for the right budget. Everyone is happy right??

Before I get called a cheapskate and worse, remember I was still paying $1600 for 1 adult and 2 youth tickets. How much did you guys pay in the supporters section??? This is where I have a big issue with the concept of all tickets should be one price comments. Tickets are clearly not all one price... They range from $200+ to $1200+ roughly... And don't try and tell me they are more expensive because they were better, because if I offer to trade my 106 tickets for bunker tickets I don't think that there would be many takers.

Variable pricing is as real a concept for supporters seats vs. prawn eater seats as it is for adult vs. youth pricing....

So why do I think that youth discounts are good despite a full stadium?

1 - All you single folks, wait 5-10 years and see how it feels to pay for 3 tickets out of one salary. The discounts are there to make it affordable for people to bring their kids.
2 - Longevity of the Toronto support - At some point the demographics of the existing season ticket holder has to change. There will be competing pressures for time and money. Maybe you won't be able to stand and jump the entire game. Maybe you'll just get fed up of Mo and stop attending... We need to bring up the next generation. Watching the game on TV will make you want to attend a live game occasionally. Being there as you grow up makes this part of your life and you end up living and breathing your club.
3 - Passing on the knowledge - Do you think the folks who go to Liverpool and stand in the kop started going to games once they passed 21?? We keep complaining how ignorant the casuals are - what a better way to start educating people and embedding the passion than starting early?
4 - This is MY personal reason - I get to spend 3+ hours with my kids on game days with a shared passion for around 20 games a year. At this age I see my kids a whole lot but I'm hoping that I'm planting a seed that will last for decades. Maybe we'll move around the stadium. Maybe we'll add or subtract tickets but I sincerly hope that is becomes a lifelong passion for my family.

Just my 2 cents...

ya i read this thing about Cardiff i believe or was it Stoke City? it was one of the teams and basicly it was about his exsperience attending matches through the 70s and 80's and he mentioned how briefly when he was like 17 he had to sneak into the ground because they made it an 18+. However again it didnt last long, not even a full season. It might of just been that club as well and maybe not all of them.