Match Day 29 - TFCX @ Miami - Wed Sept 20 7:38pm - And then We Play the...

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0QGw1LZpxM&ab_channel=Coachella


*********


Have at It People

[ensco]

I saved you all some time. This is the most relevant scouting video available. That's us, in the yellow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQI54vUEgDg

[Auzzy]

I guess Messi is back for this?

I gotta wonder if Herdman is starting Oct. 1st to avoid being embarrassed in this game with massive viewership. Or who the F knows, maybe facing the superstars motivates TFC to play more like they did against Philly, and they keep the score semi-respectable.

[ag futbol]

I guess Messi is back for this?

I gotta wonder if Herdman is starting Oct. 1st to avoid being embarrassed in this game with massive viewership. Or who the F knows, maybe facing the superstars motivates TFC to play more like they did against Philly, and they keep the score semi-respectable.
I think Herdman wants a break before he starts a new job (that’s my interpretation at least). But I think you’re right that the club purposely made it a late start date to keep the sample size small.

Either the team gets a result or two and they market the crap out of it. Or if it fails, they just call it a work in progress without having a long enough track record where it draws into question their plan.

Probably the same reason our two newest players are mysteriously on “lower body injury FC” at the moment.

[ensco]

Herdman almost certainly had a contractual notice period. I wouldn’t read anything into the October 1 date.

[OgtheDim]

Well that and we play the probable shield winners on the 30th and getting pasted is likely.

Charlotte away on a Wed night is a more doable result.

[Richard]

Why even take over for a few games? Just start fresh after a full pre-season. Why introduce yourself and tactics to a group that will most likely not even be here in two years.

[Auzzy]

Why even take over for a few games? Just start fresh after a full pre-season. Why introduce yourself and tactics to a group that will most likely not even be here in two years.

Probably because Herdman wants to get the heck away from CSA as soon as possible.

And because TFC wants to offer some kind of hope to sell season tickets for next year -- also as soon as possible.

[SenorDingDong]

I recommend everyone mute the audio and play this overtop of the game instead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuIgor5_PaQ

[Canary10]

I saved you all some time. This is the most relevant scouting video available. That's us, in the yellow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQI54vUEgDg

Lol.!

[jloome]

I recommend everyone mute the audio and play this overtop of the game instead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuIgor5_PaQ

Ah, youtube. I believe the title, rather than "Harlem Globetrotters Song", is "Sweet Georgia Brown." Maceo Pinkard, who composed it, also composed many of Billie Holliday's hit songs.

[jloome]

Lukas MacNaughton has kept Messi off the scoreboard twice this season, but clearly, Bob being the judge of talent that he... AAARARRGGGH.

You know, I wasn't exactly quiet when we traded either him or Shaffelburg. Wasn't exactly wrong, either. Which of our stalward defenders is going to both close down the middle and ensure Jordi Alba doesn't get the low cross in? Shane O'Neil?

Let's put Michael on him. After all, he's also 36 and his legs are totally up for it, right?

AAAARGH.

(I'm going to go find that room in Starfield that has the poster with "bang head here on it" up on one of the walls).

[Oldtimer]

Why even take over for a few games? Just start fresh after a full pre-season. Why introduce yourself and tactics to a group that will most likely not even be here in two years.

Maybe to review who stay and who goes.

[Prof]

It is time for the Italian experiment to end. They should be benched for this game. If an academy player came up and played and had the amount of turnovers through bad passes or dribbling into 2 and 3 defenders with his head down, as these 2 do every match he would never see the pitch again. Hopefully our new players are fit and ready. If they are, here is my line up.
Mailula Owuso
Osorio Vazquez Coello
Bradley Ibarra
Rosted Mbongue O'Neil
Romero
Vazquez is our most creative and skilled player. Let him roam like Messi and then feed the attackers. Need to try a new formation 3-2-3-2 because nothing else has worked. Those going to game, enjoy. Watching Messi live is a treat.:drinking:

[jloome]

It is time for the Italian experiment to end. They should be benched for this game. If an academy player came up and played and had the amount of turnovers through bad passes or dribbling into 2 and 3 defenders with his head down, as these 2 do every match he would never see the pitch again. Hopefully our new players are fit and ready. If they are, here is my line up.
Mailula Owuso
Osorio Vazquez Coello
Bradley Ibarra
Rosted Mbongue O'Neil
Romero
Vazquez is our most creative and skilled player. Let him roam like Messi and then feed the attackers. Need to try a new formation 3-2-3-2 because nothing else has worked. Those going to game, enjoy. Watching Messi live is a treat.:drinking:

If not for that assist, I'd bench Insigne on performance alone.

He displays a lot of passion, but he keeps trying to do arrogant things. I don't think he's completed even a third of his attempts at a cross-field switch, his free kicks are never on frame, and he spent most of that match looking for shooting angles he wasn't going to get.

If a guy knows he'll never sit, it's very hard to keep him as motivated as possible. He knows we don't have a winning roster, he likely does not blame himself, and he's making $15M a year. It's just a recipe for half-assed performances.

I thought Bernardeschi busted his ass, but just made really, really bad decisions all afternoon. I suspect he's never going to be a player who can play MLS style football. There's just not enough pace around him for his style of game, and not enough desire to serve up an assist.

The dude plays like a second striker. He just wants space to shoot all the time on his left foot, so he wants to come from wide right. We're accommodating him, not using his talents to their utmost. He'd actually be much more effective on the left (where he had a higher scoring rate at Fiorentina, when he was still a regular scorer) because he'd dish up danger crosses all day.

[Richard]

Lukas MacNaughton has kept Messi off the scoreboard twice this season, but clearly, Bob being the judge of talent that he... AAARARRGGGH.

You know, I wasn't exactly quiet when we traded either him or Shaffelburg. Wasn't exactly wrong, either. Which of our stalward defenders is going to both close down the middle and ensure Jordi Alba doesn't get the low cross in? Shane O'Neil?

Let's put Michael on him. After all, he's also 36 and his legs are totally up for it, right?

AAAARGH.

(I'm going to go find that room in Starfield that has the poster with "bang head here on it" up on one of the walls).

Never like the MacNaughton trade from the beginning.

[jloome]

Well, if the Italians really want out, they should put on as show Wednesday, as it's going to be the biggest audience they get in MLS.

[MikeForbes]

TFC is going to compete against Lionel Messi in a competitive match. That idea just a year ago was incredibly far-fetched.

[jloome]

TFC is going to compete against Lionel Messi in a competitive match. That idea just a year ago was incredibly far-fetched.

The notion of it being competitive remains somewhat far-fetched.

I wonder if Owusu and Mailula will suddenly recover. I also wonder if the team is keeping them out so they have a fresher start next season.

[Richard]

If every DP is on the pitch this will be the most expensive(salary wise) match in MLS history?

[frantic]

If every DP is on the pitch this will be the most expensive(salary wise) match in MLS history?

It will also include the two most overrated and overpaid DPs - our two Italians. Sadly. Maybe the Messi hype, will get them to play better.

Hopefully Mailula and Owuso get minutes. It's really wild how many injuries we've had over the last couple of years, even to players that are JUST signed to the team.

[SenorDingDong]

It will also include the two most overrated and overpaid DPs - our two Italians. Sadly. Maybe the Messi hype, will get them to play better.

Hopefully Mailula and Owuso get minutes. It's really wild how many injuries we've had over the last couple of years, even to players that are JUST signed to the team.

I don't really understand their apparent injuries. It seems odd.

[ensco]

I don't really understand their apparent injuries. It seems odd.

Lower leagues in Europe are rife with stories of players sold with hidden injuries.

There is no chance that our crack FO got taken for a ride here, right…?

[Ultra & Proud]

I wonder if Owusu and Mailula will suddenly recover. I also wonder if the team is keeping them out so they have a fresher start next season.

I think a fresher start on October 1st. They need a Herdman, more acclimated new guys, and motivated DP push for the last few matches to hang their season membership price jack on.

[JoesphNdo]

https://twitter.com/francopanizo/status/1704146921621721269?s=46

This read to me like Messi is not playing the full 90 and may not start

[SenorDingDong]

https://twitter.com/francopanizo/status/1704146921621721269?s=46

This read to me like Messi is not playing the full 90 and may not start

Translation: We can probably beat them without using Messi / Alba.

[JoesphNdo]

Translation: We can probably beat them without using Messi / Alba.

Exactly, sadly, if you're circling a 'gimme' on the calendar, home to us is about as good as you can get. It's never a guarantee, but this is a logical day to rest your older stars.

Which means it's possibly an opportunity for us

[Canary10]

Exactly, sadly, if you're circling a 'gimme' on the calendar, home to us is about as good as you can get. It's never a guarantee, but this is a logical day to rest your older stars.

Which means it's possibly an opportunity for us

He was just rested though. Can't see him not playing two straight games.

[JoesphNdo]

He was just rested though. Can't see him not playing two straight games.

Maybe, but Tata is saying they have 6 matches in 18 days. He won't play all of them. And if you're taking him out of any game, a very, very likely candidate is a home game against absolutely woeful opposition

[Canary10]

Maybe, but Tata is saying they have 6 matches in 18 days. He won't play all of them. And if you're taking him out of any game, a very, very likely candidate is a home game against absolutely woeful opposition

You really think we're that bad?

Kidding. Kidding.

[SenorDingDong]

You really think we're that bad?

Kidding. Kidding.

Only way he comes on in my opinion is if this game is 0-0 still in the 60th minute or by some chance we are up a goal.

[jloome]

He was just rested though. Can't see him not playing two straight games.

They're seven points out with seven games left. He's not going to sit again.

[MikeForbes]

Messi will play the final 45, I assume.

[Canary10]

They're seven points out with seven games left. He's not going to sit again.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

If anything I'd think they'd push for some early goals and pull him out at 60 minutes.

[jloome]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

If anything I'd think they'd push for some early goals and pull him out at 60 minutes.

Yeah, I don't think he'll sit to start. Tata won't want to place any undue risk on the outcome. He'll be in until they have a two-goal lead, then he'll pull him after 50-plus.

Sure would be nice if we just stuck with the direct, quick style that worked against Philly. Trying to catch Montreal high to break out by playing through the center halfs was just daft. I mean... it worked. Once. Then they just adjusted and we were hosed, without alternatives.

[OgtheDim]

2 MLS records in this game

Most amount of salary on a pitch

Biggest gulf in coach quality

[ag futbol]

2 MLS records in this game

Most amount of salary on a pitch

Biggest gulf in coach quality
We have to undo all of Bob’s bad habits. We used to average around 1.0 ppg but with Dunfield we’re going to correct that and round down to zero.

[ensco]

2 MLS records in this game

Most amount of salary on a pitch

Biggest gulf in coach quality

Oooh I like this game…

Most number of players that played in a WC or Euro Final

Most number of players that converted PKs in a WC or Euro Final

Most number of players that have won Golden Boot in a Champions League

[ensco]

Surely this means something tomorrow …. Lionel Messi once lost to a team whose winning goal was scored by Chad Barrett, assisted by Marvell Wynne

https://www.transfermarkt.com/argentina-u20_united-states-u20/index/spielbericht/2410269

[jloome]

Surely this means something tomorrow …. Lionel Messi once lost to a team whose winning goal was scored by Chad Barrett, assisted by Marvell Wynne

https://www.transfermarkt.com/argentina-u20_united-states-u20/index/spielbericht/2410269

I knew it: he's been ducking us.

[ensco]

Since there is nothing else to talk about… that scoresheet from 2005 is wild.

In total, 7 former TFC players played in that game.

Westberg was the US GK! (Who knew?!)

Argentina's number 9, who went the full 90, was Pablo Vitti (Kun Aguero never got off the bench!)

But no MB. He went from not even being in the 23 on the US U20 team in 2005, to a starting spot on the senior mens team at the 2007 Gold Cup. (BB took over the USMNT in late 2006, in perhaps a not unrelated development…)

[ensco]

Could it be the case that the single international game in history in which the most one time TFC players appeared, was a game Lionel Messi lost?

I spent a few minutes looking at various Canada v US games, which I would have assumed would have the highest, but the highest I got to was 6, in the 2019 Nations League game (Bradley and Lovitz for the US… Laryea, Oso, Fraser and MAK for Canada)

[jloome]

Since there is nothing else to talk about… that scoresheet from 2005 is wild.

In total, 7 former TFC players played in that game.

Westberg was the US GK! (Who knew?!)

Argentina's number 9, who went the full 90, was Pablo Vitti (Kun Aguero never got off the bench!)

But no MB. He went from not even being in the 23 on the US U20 team in 2005, to a starting spot on the senior mens team at the 2007 Gold Cup. (BB took over the USMNT in late 2006, in perhaps a not unrelated development…)

We had both Vitti and Piatti from the 2005-2007 Argentina u20s, I believe.

Vitti had been nicknamed "The Dead One" by Argentina fans after his game collapsed in the domestic league. When he came to us, that continued. But if he isn't incorrectly called offside on a Danny Dichio throughball and scores that goal, maybe that all would have changed.

[Canary10]

It dawned on me that we have a bunch of young kids on our team who like most young kids playing soccer grew up idolizing Messi and are now about to face, and for some defend, him. That's kind of wild.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1704513998367175050?s=20

[jloome]

So the remit tonight is to shut down the middle. But we can't forget the wings completely, or they camp in our end all night, because Tata likes the quick switch to advance the ball in two or three rapid passes.

Ideas anyone? Ibarra as a six, shutting down the middle? I say that recalling a column in Atlanta by one of their regular writers that his stats as a six -- even though he wants to be an eight or 10 -- were his best, and he looked most natural there.

Coello is a solid defensive player, but I still think he lacks initial quickness, which was probably the knock in Spain (because his pitch intelligence and technique are pretty first class. He's the best passer on our team by several country miles). He's more an eight to me, because when he has time, he can pick out something long, but when he doesn't he can still hold on in traffic and dish the ball.

He plays the eight role Osorio has often played but is more suited to it. I think Oso was always a number 10, just never going to get a shot behind Pozuelo, and then we stopped using a 10.

So maybe....

-------------Romero-------------
Franklin--O'Neill--Rosted--Petretta
--------Ibarra----------------
--------------------Coello---------
---Fede-----Oso-----Insigne
------------Kerr

(Or what I'd really like to see)

----O'Neill--Pearlman--Rosted--
Franklin---Ibarra---Coello---Fede
-------Osorio-----Insigne---------
-------------Owusu----------------

Bernardeschi can be a workhorse when he chooses to defend as well as attack, and he was never more productive in his career than when he played as a left winger at Fiorentina.

This is basically the formation Forest used for much of last year, only they typically played with two up top and one in the hole instead of the reverse. But Owusu is a good target man as well as a decent poacher.

I just think trying to be a possession team the way we do, the Italians constantly trying to force possession until they see a hole, just isn't going to ever work with this team. We'd be much better having narrower lists of tasks for them all, cutting down the possession time in favor of shooting time, and having a more transitional offense, sort of like Nashville's, where the front three are largely cooking their own meal.

[SenorDingDong]

If Messi starts I'm of the opinion Vazquez should as well

[Bushmancan]

Who does Messi give his jersey to, I hope somehow the club makes sure it gets to Ibarra.

[KEngel]

Who does Messi give his jersey to, I hope somehow the club makes sure it gets to Ibarra.

VV as they are longtime friends

[OgtheDim]

Who does Messi give his jersey to, I hope somehow the club makes sure it gets to Ibarra.

It will go to Vasquez - anything else would be shocking.

****************

nter Miami vs Toronto FC
DRV PNK Stadium (7:30PM ET)
REF: Drew Fischer
AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
AR2: Ryan Graves
4TH: Ted Unkel
VAR: Sorin Stoica
AVAR: Joshua Patlak

[Bushmancan]

VV as they are longtime friends

he can get it anytime… give it to the Argentine kid as a sign from the club, we want you back.

[OgtheDim]

We get the B team broadcasters tonight

Twellman is in St Louis for them vs LAFC.

I think that's the first Messi MLS game he has not called.

[jloome]

We get the B team broadcasters tonight

Twellman is in St Louis for them vs LAFC.

I think that's the first Messi MLS game he has not called.

Jesus H. Is he considered the "A" team? Fucking horrendous commentator to listen to. The hype is just south of wrestling.

[MikeForbes]

Messi starts.

https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1704626633317957704?s=20

[OgtheDim]

If they don't a pic at some point of VV & Messi....

[MikeForbes]

Ibarra gets taken out for VV. Michael Bradley starts because he is Michael Bradley. Is this the slowest team in the league?

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1704627344759988729?s=20

[SenorDingDong]

Love that VV is starting but not for Ibarra. Props to Dunfield for the feel good moment.

[Bushmancan]

If they don't a pic at some point of VV & Messi....

I completely get Vasquez but How does Ibarra not start?

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1704627344759988729?s=20

[Bushmancan]

Love that VV is starting but not for Ibarra.

exactly this #losttheplot….are we trying to sign the kid or not. Game means absolutely nothing.

[MikeForbes]

The Barca trio start for Miami.

https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF/status/1704627469540573498?s=20

[OgtheDim]

Things I am looking for

Franklin vs. Alba

Kerr continuing to improve

Romero - can he show signs of reducing his spilling of rebounds

Will Miami beat us by 8?

[Bushmancan]

Anyone else get there renewal email today?

[OgtheDim]

Anyone else get there renewal email today?

There's a thread

[Bushmancan]

There's a thread

yeah, but it doesn’t say Fire Manning!!

[SenorDingDong]

My guess is Victor will get the first 45 and Ibarra the 2nd.

[mowe]

Love that VV is starting but not for Ibarra. Props to Dunfield for the feel good moment.
Exactly what I was thinking. Happy for Vazquez.

[OgtheDim]

yeah, but it doesn’t say Fire Manning!!

Well there is also a thread for that :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE&ab_channel=doctoroctos

[rydermike]

Since Vazquez was better than Messi when they were 12, should be an easy W for us. The skill levels haven't changed since then right. :wink:

[OgtheDim]

"Of course the big one, Miami vs Toronto......"

Hype train fully engaged...

[dmacd]

exactly this #losttheplot….are we trying to sign the kid or not. Game means absolutely nothing.

This game means a tonne to the players. Starting Vasquez and Bradley is in the category of “veteran appreciation”. Someone like Ibarra should appreciate the gesture given the Vasquez/Messi connection and presumably not be too offended.

[jloome]

exactly this #losttheplot….are we trying to sign the kid or not. Game means absolutely nothing.

Very bad decision, unless Ibarra's conduct so far makes it clear to them he won't sign here. Then maybe it's punitive.

I dunno, seems wrongheaded to me to start Victor when he's just not got the legs to hang.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Yeah Vazquez getting the nod for sure so he can have that memory playing against two players who apparently he’s pretty close with. I’m alright with that gesture since we don’t have much to play for anyways lol. He’s gonna get run over in the midfield but maybe Ibarra can be subbed at half

[Bushmancan]

Well there is also a thread for that :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE&ab_channel=doctoroctos


well played. :cool:

[Bushmancan]

[QUOTE=jloome;1997406]Very bad decision, unless Ibarra's conduct so far makes it clear to them he won't sign here. Then maybe it's punitive.

I dunno, seems wrongheaded to me to start Victor when he's just not got the legs to hang.[/QUOTEk]

actually I support the Vasquez. I am unsure based on the lineup, why Coello (and I really like him)

[jloome]

LOL, we're 10 goals away from being better than Montreal. What a loony league.

If you literally took ten of our draws, added one goal in each, we have the same record as them (but would be plus five over them in goal difference).

Montreal has lost 14 games, same as us.

Too many teams in this league make the playoffs.

[jloome]

[QUOTE=jloome;1997406]Very bad decision, unless Ibarra's conduct so far makes it clear to them he won't sign here. Then maybe it's punitive.

I dunno, seems wrongheaded to me to start Victor when he's just not got the legs to hang.[/QUOTEk]

actually I support the Vasquez. I am unsure based on the lineup, why Coello (and I really like him)

I mean, he has legs, at least. Victor is going to play one way only past about the 30th minute.

EDIT: It's nice, I get that. I just hate doing competitive things for sentimental reasons. Never the twain should meet and all that.

I do realize we probably have no chance, but I'd prefer us to TRY and scuttle Miami's playoff run.

[OgtheDim]

LOL...pregame...not a single word about Toronto

[FiveThreeTwo]

LOL...pregame...not a single word about Toronto

Yeah they are def cashing in their only game with Messi this year lol.

Noticed even CTV main channels were hyping up this game during prime time slots this past week lol, which they obviously never do

[Ultra & Proud]

Slowest midfield ever assembled outside those retired player testimonials.

[wopchop]

LOL...pregame...not a single word about Toronto
All the programming around the game - pre-game, half-time, post ... have been absolutely awful on AppleTV. They hardly ever discuss our team at all.

[OgtheDim]

Miami fans doing that chant......

effers

[jloome]

Man, Kobi Franklin has gone from not being able to progress the ball to being an excellent long passer in a matter of the last three or four games.

[jloome]

God help us, someone has to teach DeAndre Kerr how to play defense, for when he has to switch off.

[ag futbol]

Poor Victor

[jloome]

Did I say 30 minutes? I meant 11 minutes 45.

[MikeForbes]

VV is likely toast. His body is anyway.

[rydermike]

How did Kerr miss twice

[MikeForbes]

How did Kerr not score?!

[benito]

How did he miss.???

[Ultra & Proud]

Good thing Terry did the feel good thing with VV. Really paid off. That in a nutshell is why we are as shit as we are now.

The cherry on top would have been signing Giovinco and him going down in 11 minutes too

[Amir.]

just like that vazquez out after 12 min...career should be done...kerr misses breakaway and his shot on the rebound hits the post

[portu]

Kerr or a DP? He makes me think that money could be spent somewhere else on the pitch

[MikeForbes]

Not gonna be too hard on Kerr. He has been great lately.

[OgtheDim]

I'll take that from Kerr -

[ag futbol]

I don’t think he did too badly there. His own work created the chance and he looked really close to scoring on both attempts.

[MikeForbes]

Not enough is made out of how awful a signing Petretta was.

[ag futbol]

Coello directing Servania were to pivot in midfield. I like it.

[jloome]

How was that a foul on Insigne? He just beat Yedlin to the ball!

[tfcfans]

Good thing Terry did the feel good thing with VV. Really paid off. That in a nutshell is why we are as shit as we are now.

The cherry on top would have been signing Giovinco and him going down in 11 minutes too

Can we please stop trying to relive 2017? It’s almost 2024 now and we think this is the way to go - enough - it’s actually ridiculous that this is as good a “plan” as this teams management has. Let’s build a team that is old and out of fitness and playing out of position and let’s see if it works now that everyone’s skills involved have diminished through the natural passage of time….oh I forgot, 2017 TFC, anyone tied to the CMNT, and the Italian national team. That’s the level of creativity and depth of football wisdom we are putting forward for the majority of the dollars being spent on this team……wow…..just wow….

……by the way buy tickets for next year to see Miami play - nothing mentioned about seeing Toronto play….maybe that’s for the best…..


“The results in 2023 were difficult”……that’s the closest to an apology that we’ve gotten for this abomination of a season?!…..LOL…..what about the results in 2021 and 2022 ? Were those difficult too?!

[ag futbol]

Someone needs to teach Kerr how to hold up the ball with his back to goal. Plenty of small strikers out there who do it well.

[rydermike]

Two more to Lower Body Injury FC

[MikeForbes]

Oh, no. That looks nasty for Servania.

[jloome]

That looked bad. Knee sprain at best.

[rydermike]

Did Miami spend all their money and can't afford a stretcher?

[MikeForbes]

Finally bringing on our best midfielder after two guys go down.

Gotta think Servania is done for the year though.

[Amir.]

now the sub of vazquez goes down 12 min after coming in and looks done...next man up ibarra and only one sub window left on top of the half time break

[OgtheDim]

Feel for Servania....that looks not good

[MikeForbes]

Osorio has had a rough season. Looks a step slower both mentally and physically.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Insigne and Berna playing for themselves now that the world limelight is on this game, and just handing the ball over being greedy and individual - name a better duo

[rydermike]

Gotta finish that play Oso

[mowe]

Horrible pouting by Insigne there.

[benito]

Terrible pass by oso

[Bushmancan]

In all honesty, LI is not appearing to be a threat in this league. Doesn't have the pace, nor anyone to play off of.

[Graeme]

Ugh. They are playing quite well, but look defeated whenever they lose the ball. Definitely need Herdman's inspiration.

[rydermike]

What is happening in this game. Injury wise

[MikeForbes]

We might have a chance now.

[MikeForbes]

Luckily our lower body injuries are actually contagious.

[jloome]

Now.... do we fold, because our infantile prima donna players aren't playing Messi anymore?

Or do we keep up this otherwise okay performance?

[benito]

We might have a chance now.

and the tv ratings dropped dramatically.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Injured or is Tata just hedging that we won’t score shit and he can get a result without alba/messi

[ag futbol]

This game is like watching an over 40’s basketball league.

[jloome]

Oh man, their big Ukrainian (Georgian? Something like that) just sliced his eye open on the back of Kerr's head.

[rydermike]

Fans around MLS already didn't like TFC, if Messi gets injured from this match, we'll be hated more

[MikeForbes]

If we can't beat them, injure all 11 players.

[jloome]

Fans around MLS already didn't like TFC, if Messi gets injured from this match, we'll be hated more

Good. I can't stand American exceptionalism generally, and I'd love us to become the Leeds of MLS, hated by everyone, not giving a single iota of a fuck.

[Mr. Inbetween]

now the sub of vazquez goes down 12 min after coming in and looks done...next man up ibarra and only one sub window left on top of the half time break

Oddly, I’m thinking the football gods have spoken; Ibarra probably should have started?

[FiveThreeTwo]

We about to get blacklisted by MLs for causing their main investment to get sent to the injury table, ending their magisterial playoff run /s lol

[Mr. Inbetween]

Injured or is Tata just hedging that we won’t score shit and he can get a result without alba/messi

TFC chased Alba and Messi off the pitch! That’s my take, and I am clutching it tightly.

[ag futbol]

We about to get blacklisted by MLs for causing their main investment to get sent to the injury table, ending their magisterial playoff run /s lol
Why would they do that when it’s actually more punishment to actually watch this team play?

Edit: bad from Romero. I would tell a teenage goal keeper to do better than that.

[jloome]

We've turned off a
...bit.

He literally scored halfway through that sentence.

[rydermike]

Romero needs to grab that. He's too punch happy

[OgtheDim]

Things I am looking for

Franklin vs. Alba

Kerr continuing to improve

Romero - can he show signs of reducing his spilling of rebounds

Will Miami beat us by 8?



I knew it

[Mr. Inbetween]

Romero and his rebounds! :(

[MikeForbes]

Romero is a backup. Got some good qualities, but too many glaring errors.

[jloome]

Terry looks like he has a peptic ulcer.

[jloome]

Romero is a backup. Got some good qualities, but too many glaring errors.

He's still really young for a keeper.

[MikeForbes]

He's still really young for a keeper.

He is, also very cheap. Not saying we should cut bait, but relying on him as anything more than a backup next year won't end well. Maybe an actual decent goalkeeper coach will help.

[jloome]

Safe to say if we weren't dealing with the Showboat Express in Insigne tonight, we'd be doing a lot better.

But he can't hit the broad side of a barn right now.

[OgtheDim]

He's still really young for a keeper.

Yes but this is an obvious issue and should have been seen both in practice and when he played elsewhere.

This is the latest indication that Conway can't teach worth beans in Libbyland.

[ag futbol]

Terry looks like he has a peptic ulcer.
The athleisure wear is not helping. He looks like the dad coaching on weekends.

[jloome]

Yes but this is an obvious issue and should have been seen both in practice and when he played elsewhere.

This is the latest indication that Conway can't teach worth beans in Libbyland.

I've always made the point that we know nothing about Conway's methods, and for all we know, relative to the norm, he's making them less awful than they would normally be.

But... yeah, our keepers NEVER seem to get better, do they? You'd think by now one would have grown into something more, just on the law of averages.

[OgtheDim]

The athleisure wear is not helping. He looks like the dad coaching on weekends.

Cause...that's what he is.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I know they have the pedigree but the more I see berna and insigne the more it’s be great to find any suitor and let them go somewhere else (I’m in the camp who believes if insigne doesn’t want to be here he’d leave for a smaller Italian club for peanuts if it means being in Italy with family of friends - for romantic reasons and not just to solidify the bag$$)

They are just so one dimensional. We don’t have a milenkovic-savic in the midfield who can enable LI to do his thing, nor elite tier striker to hold things up and let’s him dance in the spaces. Same with berna, they aren’t the type of player that excels in mls, with limited one trick pony playstyles, and guys that care more about their image and brand then the players around them and willing through a result- we need players with the same pedigree of skill with hell of a lot more utility.

We’re probably gonna hold onto them- but we shouldn’t if they can go somewhere else lol.

[jloome]

Cause...that's what he is.

I mean.... our team seems to have the collective emotional intelligence of a three-year-old sulking in the corner, so it's probably apropos.

Still... better tonight, despite the goal. I mean, usual sloppy shit. Until Insigne started overexerting himself and overextending his possession, we looked okay.

[jloome]

I’m in the camp who believes if insigne doesn’t want to be here he’d leave for a smaller Italian club for peanuts if it means being in Italy with family of friends - for romantic reasons and not just to solidify the bag$$.

You're right, that is romantic. I don't believe it for a second.

[MikeForbes]

These games would be so much more watchable if we could atleast see Cassius and Prince play some minutes.

[SenorDingDong]

I know they have the pedigree but the more I see berna and insigne the more it’s be great to find any suitor and let them go somewhere else (I’m in the camp who believes if insigne doesn’t want to be here he’d leave for a smaller Italian club for peanuts if it means being in Italy with family of friends - for romantic reasons and not just to solidify the bag$$)

They are just so one dimensional. We don’t have a milenkovic-savic in the midfield who can enable LI to do his thing, nor elite tier striker to hold things up and let’s him dance between the spaces. Same with berna, they aren’t the type of player that excels in mls, with limited one trick pony playstyles, and guys that care more about their image and brand then the players around them and willing through a result- we need players with the same pedigree of skill with hell of a lot more utility.

We’re probably gonna hold onto them- but we shouldn’t if they can go somewhere else lol.

If they stay Herdman needs to shift where they play IMO. Move Berna left and Insigne center or something. Or bench them if they don't perform.

[rydermike]

Even though he scored the offside goal, Bernie needs to shoot with his right instead of cutting back to his left

[jloome]

Damn, that was tight. A step over.

LOL, Kerr gets mugged right in front of the ref, no call. Damn, Pro continues to generally suck.

[MikeForbes]

Chances are coming.

[jloome]

Man... this is one of the reasons we lose. Even when we play well, we blow gilt-edged chances.

[jloome]

Chances are coming.

We seem to need 10 to score 1, though.

[OgtheDim]

Miami isn't all that good when the GOAT & Alba are off. Busquets has no support. Martinez is also slow.

[rydermike]

Caused by Franklin's flubbed clearance

[MikeForbes]

The Finnish Luis Suarez.

[jloome]

We deserve that.

What did I say at half time? Will we continue to play okay, or will we wilt when Messi leaves the field?

That's just disrespect. Robert Taylor has hit three of those since Messi came. Did we not watch tape?

Coello has to get a foot in on that.

[rydermike]

I'll have to look at a replay to see how close it was to him, but Bradley doesn't even attempt to stick a leg to block the shot as it went by him. I don't want to add to the constant negativity on him, but even if you miss you gotta at least attempt a block of the shot.

Basically bad by all involved on that play (Franklin and Coello mentioned in previous posts)

[jloome]

I'll have to look at a replay to see how close it was to him, but Bradley doesn't even attempt to stick a leg to block the shot as it went by him. I don't want to add to the constant negativity on him, but even if you miss you gotta at least attempt a block of the shot

He's about four feet back in the box from them, I think. That was Coello, all the way. I mean, he was marking him tight, he just had to get a block in when the shot came.

[MikeForbes]

Bring on the MLS SuperDraft.

[rydermike]

He's about four feet back in the box from them, I think. That was Coello, all the way. I mean, he was marking him tight, he just had to get a block in when the shot came.

After coello, as the ball was en route from shot to net, he's in the gap, it goes by him and he doesn't even motion a leg out block of the shot to prevent it reaching the target

https://i.ibb.co/tsYFP29/Screenshot-20230920-211208-Chrome.jpg
It might be a bit too far. I'm just too used to watching him ball watch and not attempt a block/interception

[jloome]

After coello, as the ball was en route from shot to net, he's in the gap, it goes by him and he doesn't even motion a leg out block

Too tight an angle. That shot was at about 120 degrees from zero, almost diagonal. He just never should have gotten it off in the first place.

Story of our season, bad decisions, bad decisions. Even when we play with heart and some effort, too much sloppy passing, too many bad decisions to hold onto balls or not press shooters and crossers.

[OgtheDim]

Too tight an angle. That shot was at about 120 degrees from zero, almost diagonal. He just never should have gotten it off in the first place.

Story of our season, bad decisions, bad decisions. Even when we play with heart and some effort, too much sloppy passing, too many bad decisions to hold onto balls or not press shooters and crossers.

We don't have anybody seeming to coach midfield defensive responsibility.

[OgtheDim]

Miami isn't all that good when the GOAT & Alba are off. Busquets has no support. Martinez is also slow.

No matter what the result, I stand by this - the quality of play they show at this point is more dependent upon our team wilting in the humidity once behind.

[jloome]

We don't have anybody seeming to coach midfield defensive responsibility.

I don't think I've ever seen a team that looks so deficient in coaching.

I'm sure it's a battle of too much "play to tendencies, fire balls in" direct from the coaches and too much "hold the ball, find an opening" from the Italians.

We've got players basically not playing with each other. Insigne coughed up the ball.... what, a half-dozen times in the first half? How many times does a guy get stripped or intercepted with too late a ball before he realizes we have to move the ball quickly?

I'm sure that's why Dunfield looks miserable. They're just ignoring what they're being told to do, even if it IS what generally works in this league.

EDIT: I shouldn't say 'they'. Bernardeschi has been much better in the last two games. But only one guy's getting the message right now.

[OgtheDim]

...... They're just ignoring what they're being told to do, even if it IS what generally works in this league.

I'm not sold on Dunfield actually telling them what to do.

[MikeForbes]

Miami will be throwing crosses at Campana the rest of the game. Bradley is in trouble.

[jloome]

I'm not sold on Dunfield actually telling them what to do.

I dunno... I thought they looked better drilled in the last three games, like they actually had a slight clue in the offensive end. We've had Oso and Kerr and Fede all throw fake runs, trying to drag players out tonight. There's a real plan there, I think.

But if the winger who sees most of the ball goes off script constantly, it doesn't really work.

[jloome]

We should take Michael off now, put on someone with legs, or move to a back three.

[jloome]

Putting in Sapong is just capitulation.

[OgtheDim]

Putting in Sapong is just capitulation.

Its weird that TFC staff seem to think he's any good and that we are better with him out there then having Kerr go 90.

[MikeForbes]

We should take Michael off now, put on someone with legs, or move to a back three.

Michael Bradley plays every minute of every game. Every coach not named Javier Perez seems scared of him. Or is his father.

[jloome]

Michael Bradley plays every minute of every game. Every coach not named Javier Perez seems scared of him. Or is his father.

I think ex players, in particular, don't want to take off the guys with a track record of good decisions.

No matter how even or uneven, at their heart, every player thinks they're potentially world class, and that it's just good and bad decisions on the night that make the difference.

More swiss cheese defending. Blessing is blown away, then Bradley STANDS OFF a defender charging at goal.

Fucking useless at defending, he really is.

[rydermike]

This game is getting messy.

[OgtheDim]

WTF Blessing - this isn't practice....you have to stay with that guy

[rydermike]

Should've kept McNaughton and Bono. If we're going to lose anyways, might as well at least be good looking (like models) since we don't look good at soccer

[MikeForbes]

Only 5 more games, guys...

[jloome]

I think I've had enough for tonight. I never say that but this has become dispiriting.

[OgtheDim]

Playing Sapong is like playing with 10 men.

[MikeForbes]

The effort level is gone. All 3 DPs are just walking.

[frantic]

These games would be so much more watchable if we could atleast see Cassius and Prince play some minutes.

At least TFC is good at something: signing healthy players and breaking them before they can even string significant minutes together. I feel bad for both. Hopefully they'll be back in time to get a few games at least.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Other teams make quick pass and move plays look so easy and natural lol, across this whole league. Whenever we get the ball and move it forward it feels like oil & water in terms of players working together and compatibility lol, there’s just nothing free flowing and natural at all lol, like everyone is fighting each others wavelength.

With the players we have, Oso/berna/LI/ibarra there should be a basic ability to just pass and move forward towards the other goal. We just never do it lol- we go wide, we pass back, we try an overlap then pass to no where. Nothing in the realm of just common sense forward passing and moving lol, so bizarre. Hopefully herdman can come in and get those basics nailed down

[rydermike]

Insigne hits the post. We can't even get a little glimmer

[ag futbol]

We need to slaughter every sacred cow this team has.

I would pay half these guys to not show up and rather watch 11 try-yards who actually give a shit.

[Mister Karpf]

We should sign another striker so he can immediately get injured and watch the remaining games with the others.

[rydermike]

If you told me 4-0 before the game, I'd assume Messi was Messi. Messi wasn't on the pitch for any goal. Oh TFC

[Bushmancan]

Doesn’t someone usually get fired when we lose by 5?

[rydermike]

C'mon ref, give negative 2 minutes of extra time. Just end it early

[MikeForbes]

Alright. Time to go watch some good MLS teams. 2024 can't get here soon enough.

[FootBallAZ]

Lol isigne could have run and taken a shot he stopped watched the ball past him then he decides to run

[FootBallAZ]

The renewal fyi- dont hang your head on messi even playing 90m or even 45m

Next season miami will be stronger and tfc saddle with bad contracts.


Please renew you get to see messi LOL

[frantic]

I know they have the pedigree but the more I see berna and insigne the more it’s be great to find any suitor and let them go somewhere else (I’m in the camp who believes if insigne doesn’t want to be here he’d leave for a smaller Italian club for peanuts if it means being in Italy with family of friends - for romantic reasons and not just to solidify the bag$$)

They are just so one dimensional. We don’t have a milenkovic-savic in the midfield who can enable LI to do his thing, nor elite tier striker to hold things up and let’s him dance in the spaces. Same with berna, they aren’t the type of player that excels in mls, with limited one trick pony playstyles, and guys that care more about their image and brand then the players around them and willing through a result- we need players with the same pedigree of skill with hell of a lot more utility.

We’re probably gonna hold onto them- but we shouldn’t if they can go somewhere else lol.

Insigne and Berna are SO disappointing.

I recall two specific posters being vociferously promoting the Insigne and Berna signings. Wonder how they feel about them now...

IMO both Insigne and Berna are Bill Manning special: lazy scouting, poor evaluator of players/execs, overpaying for overrated players. He probably just wanted free vacays to Italy and the press that come along with signing two Italian internationals. He's a disease that infects the entire org, and my fear is that no matter who the GM or coach or what players we sign, if he's still in charge, we'll still suck. Bill is THE definition of a carnival barker and self promoter, who's positioned himself mythologically as a genius.

[portu]

There’s something intangible that just has nothing to do with the quality on the pitch. You can see it at the start of matches, when there’s hope. This is the worst team we’ve ever had. And the most we’ve ever spent. Organizational rot off the pitch, leading to rot on it. I’m just sad.

[FootBallAZ]

Didnt watch saw the goals tho.

Boy is tfc bad. I cannot believe majority of you actually watches this mess

[OgtheDim]

Kerr showed signs of getting better - please can he continue to be a slow burn because the last thing he needs is to become the next darling of the WTR crowd.

Franklin also continues to show signs of increasing defensive capability


Apart from that


Fire them all into the sun

[FootBallAZ]

Insigne and Berna are SO disappointing.

I recall two specific posters being vociferously promoting the Insigne and Berna signings. Wonder how they feel about them now...

IMO both Insigne and Berna are Bill Manning special: lazy scouting, poor evaluator of players/execs, overpaying for overrated players. He probably just wanted free vacays to Italy and the press that come along with signing two Italian internationals. He's a disease that infects the entire org, and my fear is that no matter who the GM or coach or what players we sign, if he's still in charge, we'll still suck. Bill is THE definition of a carnival barker and self promoter, who's positioned himself mythologically as a genius.



Copy and paste this in the deathwatch thread and the 2024 renewals

[FootBallAZ]

There’s something intangible that just has nothing to do with the quality on the pitch. You can see it at the start of matches, when there’s hope. This is the worst team we’ve ever had. And the most we’ve ever spent. Organizational rot off the pitch, leading to rot on it. I’m just sad.



Copy and paste this in the death watch thread.

[mowe]

There’s something intangible that just has nothing to do with the quality on the pitch. You can see it at the start of matches, when there’s hope. This is the worst team we’ve ever had. And the most we’ve ever spent. Organizational rot off the pitch, leading to rot on it. I’m just sad.
Just about sums it up. This club is rotten to core. Well done to all involved.

[OgtheDim]

Didnt watch saw the goals tho.

Boy is tfc bad. I cannot believe majority of you actually watches this mess


No

Sorry, but Fecesposting is easy when you only watch the goals against.


You want to earn respect for your opinions - watch the game.

First half we out played them for good long stretches and kept Messi from doing things.

And... as soon as we make a bonehead error to go down a goal, we lose heart. #2 like that....we are in trouble again. Then the 2 real DP's start to hero ball and the midfield goes to feces.


But, hey, sure...just watch the goals against and feces post.

[frantic]

There’s something intangible that just has nothing to do with the quality on the pitch. You can see it at the start of matches, when there’s hope. This is the worst team we’ve ever had. And the most we’ve ever spent. Organizational rot off the pitch, leading to rot on it. I’m just sad.

Our key players are old. Our younger players are just getting started and a few have upside (Kerr, Franklin, Coello), butr none are world beaters. Overall we're a slow team, in terms of individual speed and playing as a team. We field a team of non-complementary players. I'll even go as far as saying that many players are just unprofessional the way they have performed this season. I'm leaning towards poor roster construction and lack of leadership as the issue. I wouldn't rule out a bad locker room either - as The Athletic article detailed (who knows how much of it was real or made up).

[SoccMan2]

What a mess there is not one player I would keep just garbage every one of them , the first to go needs to be Manning then the two overpriced useless DP’s and the rest of the team to follow a disgrace to the sport and the city all of them. If Herdman can turn this team around then all power to him , but he has a nightmarish task facing him , this organization and team is beyond useless!

[firm]

I’m not pissing my money up a on the last 2 home games so the 4 ticket tickets l I have for each game is staying in my pocket take the train go to bars and drink at the game to have a laugh we’ll there’s no laughing now I’ve spent enough on alcohol at these games which is well we’ll overpriced nobody has a clue

[barticusz]

Can someone remind me why we fired Bradley?

It was very interesting to see Tata embrace both Insigne and Berna after the game. Would love to have heard what they said. My guess “boys, I’m sorry you have such a horrendous manager in place, also I can’t believe with all the money your team spends they didn’t try and hire a legitimate club manager. Here’s hoping you can get out.”

[FootBallAZ]

There’s something intangible that just has nothing to do with the quality on the pitch. You can see it at the start of matches, when there’s hope. This is the worst team we’ve ever had. And the most we’ve ever spent. Organizational rot off the pitch, leading to rot on it. I’m just sad.


No

Sorry, but Fecesposting is easy when you only watch the goals against.


You want to earn respect for your opinions - watch the game.

First half we out played them for good long stretches and kept Messi from doing things.

And... as soon as we make a bonehead error to go down a goal, we lose heart. #2 like that....we are in trouble again. Then the 2 real DP's start to hero ball and the midfield goes to feces.


But, hey, sure...just watch the goals against and feces post.


I didnt ask for your respect nor will it impact my life in anyway- no disrespect intended.

I can post freely what i wish - because i dont watch one game- my opionion isnt respected? LOL WOW.

Didnt know i had to watch full games to have my opinion respected. I like to speak to facts.

For example:

1.the goal where the guy ran from one side of the 18 yard box all by himself to the top of the 18 and then still have space and time to shoot and score is a feces post?
That was 30 seconds of possession with no one playing defense


2.The last goal tfc allows them to keep possession and allows the runner unmarked.


At this point( "almost having them" - think fast furious movie) means nothing.

I want results, we deserve results .

TFC shut messi down but as soon as alba and messi come on TFC gets lit up. But ya messi no goal no assist TFC held him in check come on.

A reminder:

Highest paid position in the league by TFC:

GK
LB
LF

I see absolutely no return on investment including time and well money is becoming even more valuable as we move into 2024.


Ive seen enough of this team that missing a game doesnt change what ive seen and experienced.


Dont tell me how to watch games as money and time invested.

I knew the outcome - like we all did based on experience.

[Auzzy]

I’m not pissing my money up a on the last 2 home games so the 4 ticket tickets l I have for each game is staying in my pocket take the train go to bars and drink at the game to have a laugh we’ll there’s no laughing now I’ve spent enough on alcohol at these games which is well we’ll overpriced nobody has a clue

I focus on spending nothing extra on the game. I walk or bike there. (Last Saturday I walked a total of 27km -- beautiful day!) I bring an empty bottle and fill it with nice cold water just inside the supporter's gate. Then I have a great time with the season ticket holders around me, and watch the game if it's worth it.

[jloome]

Can someone remind me why we fired Bradley?

It was very interesting to see Tata embrace both Insigne and Berna after the game. Would love to have heard what they said. My guess “boys, I’m sorry you have such a horrendous manager in place, also I can’t believe with all the money your team spends they didn’t try and hire a legitimate club manager. Here’s hoping you can get out.”

Oh whatever. They've been total dogshit all year. This isn't just on managing.

[FootBallAZ]

I’m not pissing my money up a on the last 2 home games so the 4 ticket tickets l I have for each game is staying in my pocket take the train go to bars and drink at the game to have a laugh we’ll there’s no laughing now I’ve spent enough on alcohol at these games which is well we’ll overpriced nobody has a clue

Its refreshing to not be excited and let down after spending so much for game day experience.


Ive havent attended a match in almost 3 months maybe june? And i only went to entertain family member from over seas .

Money is very crucial now- i can barely sell my tickets at face value- let alone 50% cost.

It is a decent feeling not being caught in the hype of the bill manning shit show while being able to save some money to recoup from the horrible return in investment from id say 2021.

It isnt easy to do what you are doing when we all have committed time and money.

[JoesphNdo]

Can someone remind me why we fired Bradley?


Many reasons but we can start with being the GM and literally, and by a fucking mile (and this is understating it), putting together the worst assembled squad in MLS history when factoring in $ spend despite being given carte blanche to rip apart the bones of the squad he had, start from scratch and build it completely from the ground up in his image. That's a strong start.

Then you get to results.

[ensco]

Didn’t learn anything new.

We all knew this version of TFC has no heart and we were going to get killed.

If there was a bright spot, it was that I kinda sorta saw a glimmer of something from the Italians. They weren’t successful but didn’t seem so selfish or pointless, it was more that they were out of sync (and everybody else was too, I mean Oso, I love you, but what the hell was that on that goalmouth pass?).

Yeah, jeez, are we ever bad.

[barticusz]

Oh whatever. They've been total dogshit all year. This isn't just on managing.

I don’t Disagree that they’ve been dog shit but we have been absolutely atrocious since Bob. Which is insane because we were horrible with him.

I want to believe that Herdman will make things better but I just can’t see him turning this team around let alone the prima donnas. If Goodman is right and they’re gone by the new year, great but I what actual scouting network does Herdman have to bring talent here that can actually play? Our youth just do not cut it at this level or at least they are really struggling for consistency. I know the only way to get that is through playing but you need to play in an environment where you have a group that does shatter into a million pieces as soon as things go south.

[barticusz]

Totally agree. And yet even by making the absolute worst roster ever produced in MLS, he still was managing to get more points per game the dunfield who is working with a better roster than the start of the season.

11 games, 1 win, 10 losses, 6 goals for, 24 goals against. Whatever bad habits TD is trying to undue, it’s only gotten worse.

[JoesphNdo]

Totally agree. And yet even by making the absolute worst roster ever produced in MLS, he still was managing to get more points per game the dunfield who is working with a better roster than the start of the season.

11 games, 1 win, 10 losses, 6 goals for, 24 goals against. Whatever bad habits TD is trying to undue, it’s only gotten worse.

Being marginally better than terry dunfield isn't exactly a reason to be proud

Nobody believed dunfield was the answer, being better (or more accurately, less crap) than him doesn't prove anything. It'll be whether we improve after a year of herdman or not that you can judge. And even then it'll be a case of a bad hire and not a wrong dismissal

There is absolutely no credible argument that we should have stuck with Bradley. He completely shat the bed on roster construction (and on gutting the talent we did have) worse than anyone in league history, had a divided dressing room and was completely unable to get even mediocre results from the squad that was left. His successors being bad can't change the reality that was him here. He'll be judged on his results here and they are what they are.

[Ultra & Proud]

Hiring Dunfield to make the team worse, instill even worse habits, and set us back to unheard of levels of disbelief is yet another nail in Manning's coffin and a starting one for Hernandez's.

Time for both of them to go. House needs cleaned and they should be holding the doors open for about 85% of our FO, roster, coaching staff, & academy system as they hit the bricks.

[jloome]

If there was a bright spot, it was that I kinda sorta saw a glimmer of something from the Italians.

For forty minutes. Then as soon as we went a goal down, Insigne decided to stop passing the damn ball. He was a HUGE part of the problem last night. Fede too, but to a lesser extent.

We beat Philly because we moved the ball quickly, put it into dangerous areas, and trusted someone to be there.

Last night, they both tried to win it themselves -- mostly Insigne -- and it utterly wrecked any chance we had.

They're just cancers on the team. The sooner they're both gone, the better.

[jloome]

Hiring Dunfield to make the team worse, instill even worse habits, and set us back to unheard of levels of disbelief is yet another nail in Manning's coffin and a starting one for Hernandez's.

Time for both of them to go. House needs cleaned and they should be holding the doors open for about 85% of our FO, roster, coaching staff, & academy system as they hit the bricks.

Dunfield hasn't made them worse. It's obvious from the last four games, notably the Philly game, what he's trying to do.

He just is getting zero co-operation from two players. We'd be weak even if they weren't pretty much fucking everything up, but that IS what's going on.

Under Bob, they were wedged into trying to play his system. They hated it. So now, they're just ignoring coaching. It's fucking obvious from the repeated games with 20-30 mins of effort followed by 60 mins of dogshit.

We go down, they both lose any confidence in their teammates and starts showboating to prove their own value.

That's what happened last night.

[Ultra & Proud]

Dunfield hasn't made them worse. It's obvious from the last four games, notably the Philly game, what he's trying to do.

He just is getting zero co-operation from two players. We'd be weak even if they weren't pretty much fucking everything up, but that IS what's going on.

Under Bob, they were wedged into trying to play his system. They hated it. So now, they're just ignoring coaching. It's fucking obvious from the repeated games with 20-30 mins of effort followed by 60 mins of dogshit.

We go down, they both lose any confidence in their teammates and starts showboating to prove their own value.

That's what happened last night.
If you saw it then Dunfield should have seen it too and by letting the two of them go out there weekly and repeat the same selfish actions, it is damaging the rest of the team. Not exactly setting a good 90 minute example for our young impressionable players. No co-operation from the two DPs should mean they sit and when I say sit, I mean sit at home. It's not like we're playing for anything and need they're "skill" so send a message and banish both from the team.

[jloome]

If you saw it then Dunfield should have seen it too and by letting the two of them go out there weekly and repeat the same selfish actions, it is damaging the rest of the team. Not exactly setting a good 90 minute example for our young impressionable players. No co-operation from the two DPs should mean they sit and when I say sit, I mean sit at home. It's not like we're playing for anything and need they're "skill" so send a message and banish both from the team.


I don't think he has the power to do that. The team wants to move them, so they have to play well. So they have to be in the lineup.

But if they're in the lineup.... we won't play well.

He's stuck in the same rock/hard place the rest of us are on that one. I mean, I get what your'e saying and that IS what should happen. They should sit his ass for the rest of the season, make it clear if he wants to prove himself for a move, it'll have to be as playing in a team, and it'll have to be beyond the next five games.

But I also know how shortsighted they are. They would probably rather he showboat, score a couple of impressive goals and we lose. Because winning means nothing right now, but a few highlight reel goals and he might be out of here.

What a debacle.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't think he has the power to do that. The team wants to move them, so they have to play well. So they have to be in the lineup.
.
Hopefully Herdman does.

If not, we're in for more of the same until they finally dump Manning, Hernandez, & everyone else in the FO.

I am this close to starting the Hernandez Deathwatch because he's next and he hasn't done a thing to prove he should survive this.

[Joe Kool]

...and renewal notices came out yesterday too just before the game. I wonder how many cancellations they are receiving this morning after last night's showing. Has to be at least a couple members out there that felt this game was the final straw.... It is just sad watching this team right now. Can't believe the biggest selling point for our front office for 2024 renewals is a Miami game next year with a possible sighting of Messi. Pathetic. Feels like 2007/2008 again waiting for LAG to come to town to possibly see Beckham.

[Ultra & Proud]

Feels like 2007/2008 again waiting for LAG to come to town to possibly see Beckham.

Only difference is we're paying a lot more to watch something much worse.

[ag futbol]

I just want to call out that in a sea of crap and bad play Coello continues to look like a tidy player for us. I’m just not sure what we do with the other 10 spots.

[SenorDingDong]

I just want to call out that in a sea of crap and bad play Coello continues to look like a tidy player for us. I’m just not sure what we do with the other 10 spots.

Him, Kerr and Franklin only bright spots this season.

[ensco]

Only difference is we're paying a lot more to watch something much worse.

This is way worse. Those teams had heart- and the 2007 team was competitive until it got wrecked by injuries.

[DuffBeer]

Dunfield hasn't made them worse. It's obvious from the last four games, notably the Philly game, what he's trying to do.

He just is getting zero co-operation from two players. We'd be weak even if they weren't pretty much fucking everything up, but that IS what's going on.

Under Bob, they were wedged into trying to play his system. They hated it. So now, they're just ignoring coaching. It's fucking obvious from the repeated games with 20-30 mins of effort followed by 60 mins of dogshit.

We go down, they both lose any confidence in their teammates and starts showboating to prove their own value.

That's what happened last night.


It's not zero co-operation... it's lack of fitness. These two are not good enough not to train seriously and still be able to have a decent game. Overpaid divas...

[ag futbol]

This is way worse. Those teams had heart- and the 2007 team was competitive until it got wrecked by injuries.
I don’t know about that, they were flawed as hell in my estimation. Our plan to get our attackers the ball was a 90 lbs Andy Welsh who blew over in the wind and was incredibly slow. Carl Robinson played hospital passes to everybody. Jim Brennan stood like 40 yards off his attacker while they blasted in crosses all day from his flank. Our CB’s were putrid.

Ronnie O’Brien was the only above average player. Yes he got injured and wrecks himself but he would never have been able to do it all himself.

Overall it was a MO Johnston project and Mo was awful.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don’t know about that, they were flawed as hell in my estimation. Our plan to get our attackers the ball was a 90 lbs Andy Welsh who blew over in the wind and was incredibly slow. Carl Robinson played hospital passes to everybody. Jim Brennan stood like 40 yards off his attacker while they blasted in crosses all day from his flank. Our CB’s were putrid.

Ronnie O’Brien was the only above average player. Yes he got injured and wrecks himself but he would never have been able to do it all himself.

Overall it was a MO Johnston project and Mo was awful.
That team healthy would probably beat this team today.

[ag futbol]

That team healthy would probably beat this team today.
League has grown leaps and bounds since that time. Bottom of the roster were “apprentices” on $12k a year, even the average pay wasn’t great. Plus there’s been a lot of evolution in the sport in general.

I think today’s team destroys 2007 no questions asked.

[jloome]

League has grown leaps and bounds since that time. Bottom of the roster were “apprentices” on $12k a year, even the average pay wasn’t great. Plus there’s been a lot of evolution in the sport in general.

I think today’s team destroys 2007 no questions asked.

They basically called Mo an enormous cunt on Footy Prime this week. Forrest and Brennan noted he would go to bars and order a Champagne cocktail that cost $60 a glass, drink it all night, then leave the bill for the others, sometimes in the thousands of dollars.

At the end one of them made an oblique reference to nobody ever having a nice thing to say about him. Puts the whole celtic/rangers/TFC transfer payola/laissez faire management in perspective.

I also think this team beats that team. The league then was basically what USL-C is now, maybe even slightly lower.

[Ultra & Proud]

I also think this team beats that team. The league then was basically what USL-C is now, maybe even slightly lower.

Somedays we play like USL-C too regardless of who is on the team and who gets paid what.

[ag futbol]

They basically called Mo an enormous cunt on Footy Prime this week. Forrest and Brennan noted he would go to bars and order a Champagne cocktail that cost $60 a glass, drink it all night, then leave the bill for the others, sometimes in the thousands of dollars.

At the end one of them made an oblique reference to nobody ever having a nice thing to say about him. Puts the whole celtic/rangers/TFC transfer payola/laissez faire management in perspective.

I also think this team beats that team. The league then was basically what USL-C is now, maybe even slightly lower.
And I thought my opinion of the man couldn’t get any lower, he really is scum.

[ensco]

This is obviously a complete waste of time, but putting aside relativism (the league is obviously way better now, no argument there) and just speaking to TFC's ability to compete…

The 2007 team, having lost its first four games without scoring, won five and tied four of its next 12 games. We walloped a number of good teams in that stretch (including a memorable 4-0 pasting of Dallas, that's the game Robinson did the windmill celebration in). We were in a playoff team, halfway through the season…

Then a whole bunch of injuries hit, and it all fell apart. Even then, piling up losses on our way to dead last, we played with heart, and that is why that final game, against eventual conference champion NE, felt so great when Dichio scored that late goal to tie it. Anybody here who remembers that game, well, it wasn’t just about that game. That team had pride.

We have had absolutely none of that in 2023. We had the injuries but that's the only comparison. No two game stretch of relative excellence (let alone 12 games), no comebacks, no pluck.

I am certain Mo was a king sized prick btw. Those 2007 players played their hearts out for us, and for each other, not for Mo. There were songs for six or seven different guys on that team, it wasn’t just for Dichio, we sang them all the time… and they knew it. Marvell Wynne, I heard him say on a podcast a couple of years ago that nothing was like those couple of years in Toronto in his whole career, in terms of the relationship with the fans.

Like I said, it isn’t even close. Things were way way better that year.

[jloome]

Like I said, it isn’t even close. Things were way way better that year.


Better effort. A handful of better players. On balance, that team would do as badly or worse than this in this version of the league.

I think it's semantics, in other words. Certainly, that was a better TEAM, but largely through effort. Better players? Eh... hard to say. MLS really stunk the joint out back then, let's be honest.