Match Day 27 - Philly @ TFC Wednesday Aug30 7:38pm - Yeah, I wanna find

[OgtheDim]

What Can't Be Found


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9LgHNf2Qy0&ab_channel=TheWarOnDrugs


***********

Have at It People

[MikeForbes]

The last game of the Dunfield era, please.

[Ultra & Proud]

The last game of the Dunfield era, please.
If we get any harder to play against Manning will be running to Dunfield with a 5 year extension.

[Joe Kool]

Silver lining...the Food Building is open....I think that is it though.

[FootBallAZ]

right now all i can see is- bill mannings stupid grin and his bald shinny head combined with paul walker - " I almost had you"

like TFC almost scored in back to back games
or TFC almost had a shot on target
or one of the 2 DP's almost produced.

[Derko]

This is a day trip to the Ex, with a TFC game as a time filler in the evening as there is no one of any cause to go to the Bandshell.

[jloome]

If we get any harder to play against Manning will be running to Dunfield with a 5 year extension.

In Dunny's defense, it's hard for the other team to maintain their composure when they're laughing.

[OgtheDim]

This is a day trip to the Ex, with a TFC game as a time filler in the evening as there is no one of any cause to go to the Bandshell.


I've heard of Nice Horse - supposed to be good live.

[barticusz]

If we only give up 29 shots that means we're progressing so well right?! Stout defending.

[SenorDingDong]

Dunfield please just start cash... that's all I ask.

[Smokecell]

If we only give up 29 shots that means we're progressing so well right?! Stout defending.

"I mean, I think the stat sheet shows you that we are getting harder and harder to play against" - Terry Dunfield postgame

[jloome]

Dunfield please just start cash... that's all I ask.

I know he's a right winger/second striker naturally, but if Osuwu is still out it would be better to start him. At least he has instinct in the box and drive to score goals.

[jloome]

"I mean, I think the stat sheet shows you that we are getting harder and harder to play against" - Terry Dunfield postgame


First three games in charge, six goals given up.

Last three games in charge, six goals given up.... two scored.

Clearly, a staggering breakthrough.

[ag futbol]

First three games in charge, six goals given up.

Last three games in charge, six goals given up.... two scored.

Clearly, a staggering breakthrough.
If we let them score enough, they’ll tire themselves out.

Dunfield rope-a-dope.

[MikeForbes]

Pretty sure lower leg injuries might actually be contagious at this point.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1696561948467331431?s=20

[Joe Kool]

If we let them score enough, they’ll tire themselves out.

Dunfield rope-a-dope.

Nice one. Needed a laugh today.

[jloome]

Pretty sure lower leg injuries might actually be contagious at this point.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1696561948467331431?s=20

Jesus H. What is it with this club?

[Ultra & Proud]

Pretty sure lower leg injuries might actually be contagious at this point.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1696561948467331431?s=20
Outgoing physio leaving his mark before October 1st.

[DinamoTFC]

Pretty sure lower leg injuries might actually be contagious at this point.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1696561948467331431?s=20

It's actually quite frightening

[rydermike]

Does this team have a masseuse who thinks a baseball bat to the leg is a massage or something? How many lower body/leg injuries do we have to every player

[SenorDingDong]

It's actually quite frightening

Cassius played 30 min.. like I don't understand...

[OgtheDim]

Pain

[jloome]

They're holding them out because it'll be negative, I imagine. Being booed at home would sit particularly poorly for someone who just arrived. They have ANOTHER two-week break after this before the next game, which gives them some time to assimilate a little more.

[Blindside16]

I donated my tickets to this match so an armed forces member could attend. Now I am beginning to regret it because making them watch this massacre is no way to treat a veteran.

[OgtheDim]

Toronto FC vs Philadelphia Union
BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
REF: Mark Allatin
AR1: Lyes Arfa
AR2: Gianni Facchini
4TH: Filip Dujic
VAR: Michael Radchuk
AVAR: Jozef Batko









***********


The guy in his first match last Saturday was pretty good.

[FootBallAZ]

They're holding them out because it'll be negative, I imagine. Being booed at home would sit particularly poorly for someone who just arrived. They have ANOTHER two-week break after this before the next game, which gives them some time to assimilate a little more.


crazy thing is - this was the same situation before the leagues cup started and nothing was done. no improvement in anything during the time off- well except for two new injuries?

do you really expect something to change after to today's game?

[jloome]

crazy thing is - this was the same situation before the leagues cup started and nothing was done. no improvement in anything during the time off- well except for two new injuries?

do you really expect something to change after to today's game?

Why are you asking me?

You're aware that when people make statements -- i.e. "I think so-and-so is happening" -- that they're not endorsing that thing, right?

Why would I be expecting anything to change? Same roster, same coach.

But clearly it would be normal for them to think they have a better chance at getting points after two weeks of uninterrupted practice, in a league where teams are lucky to get four days straight of training.

Wishful thinking if that's the rationale, but it makes more sense than simultaneous "lower leg" injuries.

[FootBallAZ]

Why are you asking me?

You're aware that when people make statements -- i.e. "I think so-and-so is happening" -- that they're not endorsing that thing, right?

Why would I be expecting anything to change? Same roster, same coach.

you mentioned they have a two week break to assimilate more- i posed the question- do you really think they'll do a good enough job to assimilate them in during the 2 weeks?

clearly mentioned you dont expect it- it would be nice if they could you know get the new players up and running while being healthy.

[jloome]

you mentioned they have a two week break to assimilate more- i posed the question- do you really think they'll do a good enough job to assimilate them in during the 2 weeks?

clear mentioned you dont expect it- it would be nice if they could you know get the new players up and running while being healthy.

Use of the word "really" made it sound like I believed it would work, dude. As in "Do you REALLY think" etc etc

Sorry as that wasn't the intent.

I mean... it can't make them worse right now, I don't think. But I don't think Dunny has anything in the bag to turn this around.

I'm not sure how a team can exist and get to this stage, where they have so little consistency and so little belief. It's like Bradley crushed their spirits completely.

I mostly worry about who these players even are. Is Insigne Petulant, whiny and spoiled, a child? Or is he just passionate and expresses it occasionally. Is Bernardeschi a cunt in the locker room, or is that just team hype?

Clearly, the mix is really, really bad. They have no confidence, no energy. I have to think that on some level, the fact that they pulled together and got a win when Fede was sitting after the Athletic blowup signified deep divides.

But ultimately, the youth aren't good enough. The Italians are, but nowhere near their DP value, not in this style of league. Topping it off, they both seem to be petulant whiners who take zero leadership responsibility.

The only thing that'll make us a winner again is rebuilding the roster. We're not going to win with this team no matter who coaches them.

They have to get rid of the Italians in the offseason, or at least one of them. Get us a couple of live wires, a Mukhtar type number 10 and a Vasquez/Giakoumakis style target forward who's good with his feet.

Realistically, we're back to needing

-- Ideally, two fullbacks. Franklin isn't ready, Petretta is barely passable.
-- Two center halves, as neither Mabika nor Rosted is good enough
-- A defensive midfielder, as Ibarra is going back to Atlanta
-- A central midfielder with speed, as neither Coello nor Osorio is fast.
-- A number 10 with flair, as I highly doubt Cash No Deposit is ready to start in this league game in and out
-- A dp striker.

And... our goalie is 34 and already a little error prone.

So basically we need to rebuild the entire fucking team.

God, going through all of that just depressed me again.

[jloome]

What a time to get Philly at home.

Given that most of these guys won't even be here next year, it would be nice to see something new tried. Anything. A new approach: just play full field man-to-man, a la Almeyda ball. Press the whole game. Make them work for every touch and don't worry about the rest. Press them like they have the plague and we're trying to catch it.

[ag futbol]

I’m going to put this on as background noise while I pack for a trip. Not worth my full attention but I’ll look more closely if something good happens.

[613reppingTFC]

What a time to get Philly at home.

Given that most of these guys won't even be here next year, it would be nice to see something new tried. Anything. A new approach: just play full field man-to-man, a la Almeyda ball. Press the whole game. Make them work for every touch and don't worry about the rest. Press them like they have the plague and we're trying to catch it.

You think it's possible with Herdman now announced he might do some whispering and suggestions Dunfield's way and he could implement them at this time? Or do you think Herdman would almost stay hands off with tactical approach until he actually takes over? Like you're saying now would be the time to just throw anything different at the wall and see how it goes, they have nothing to lose. I don't think Dunfield has it in him to do those things unless potentially prompted by someone.

[jloome]

You think it's possible with Herdman now announced he might do some whispering and suggestions Dunfield's way and he could implement them at this time? Or do you think Herdman would almost stay hands off with tactical approach until he actually takes over? Like you're saying now would be the time to just throw anything different at the wall and see how it goes, they have nothing to lose. I don't think Dunfield has it in him to do those things unless potentially prompted by someone.

I don't think they'll change anything right away, because there isn't enough time for it to take, beyond some tactical advice if he's watched Philly.

But with two weeks off between Philly and the next game, I can certainly see him influencing what they're doing well before he actually takes over. I think we have five games before then, something like that.

But they won't talk about it publicly, if they're smart. It'll mean very little if it has a positive effect because the season is gone. But if it goes badly due to lack of time and roster changes, it might undermine people's view of him before he's made change one.

By having him only take over in the last three games, they have a built-in rationale if things go poorly.... which given our roster seems likely.

I disagree with assessments of Herdman as tactically deficient. The teams they lost to at the World Cup had a lot more talent to begin with, and he's constantly adjusted shape and approach in qualifying and continental competitions. I'd say if anything, he's quite tactically astute compared to the average MLS manager.

Where I think he can probably break down over time is on the motivating front, because it's key to what he does. Whenever someone is driving people to perform above their expected limits, it always eventually results in one side or the other burning out and tuning out. But typically, if they're good at it, it takes four or five years for that to happen.

The key for the motivator type is to leave before the room is completely lost.

[Ultra & Proud]

You think it's possible with Herdman now announced he might do some whispering and suggestions Dunfield's way and he could implement them at this time? Or do you think Herdman would almost stay hands off with tactical approach until he actually takes over? Like you're saying now would be the time to just throw anything different at the wall and see how it goes, they have nothing to lose. I don't think Dunfield has it in him to do those things unless potentially prompted by someone.
I think Herdman is a smart guy so he probably already has been watching tape, hopefully of training too so he can see what is being trained and how it's being implemented. After that he would be better served to sit back and have this as an audition for next season and also see where some players should play or shouldn't play.

[jloome]

I think Herdman is a smart guy so he probably already has been watching tape, hopefully of training too so he can see what is being trained and how it's being implemented. After that he would be better served to sit back and have this as an audition for next season and also see where some players should play or shouldn't play.

Yeah, he's notoriously meticulous. He'll be focusing some of the analytics types with figuring out weak points in opponents, he'll be taking to the team on individual bases about training and improvement, what they aspire to.

I really wanted them to hire a guy who made his bones field coaching and they did. Most of the younger guys -- managers in their 30s and 40s -- who have impressed me in recent years globally have been hands-on trainers. Wilfried Nancy came from youth coaching; Ange Postecoglou came from youth coaching; Luke Garrard is working his way up from the bottom.

I think Herdman fits that mold, a guy who started with the technical end and has learned to motivate as a core tool, rather than assuming people would just be in awe of the boss or of a former star player. They're pragmatic, and they genuinely give a shit about their players.

But once thing I would suggest is certain: a guy like that will not brook assholes in the room. He'd rather play a youth player than a DP with an attitude if that 'tude is so disruptive it hurts the overall effort.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I don't think they'll change anything right away, because there isn't enough time for it to take, beyond some tactical advice if he's watched Philly.

But with two weeks off between Philly and the next game, I can certainly see him influencing what they're doing well before he actually takes over. I think we have five games before then, something like that.

But they won't talk about it publicly, if they're smart. It'll mean very little if it has a positive effect because the season is gone. But if it goes badly due to lack of time and roster changes, it might undermine people's view of him before he's made change one.

By having him only take over in the last three games, they have a built-in rationale if things go poorly.... which given our roster seems likely.

I disagree with assessments of Herdman as tactically deficient. The teams they lost to at the World Cup had a lot more talent to begin with, and he's constantly adjusted shape and approach in qualifying and continental competitions. I'd say if anything, he's quite tactically astute compared to the average MLS manager.

Where I think he can probably break down over time is on the motivating front, because it's key to what he does. Whenever someone is driving people to perform above their expected limits, it always eventually results in one side or the other burning out and tuning out. But typically, if they're good at it, it takes four or five years for that to happen.

The key for the motivator type is to leave before the room is completely lost.

I thought it was insanity what he did going up against the three man midfield of Croatia...trying a two man or man to man whatever that was....and predictably got overun. Same with his man to man on Perisic who took Johnston to the woodshed.

Yes, all three teams were better, so you adjust your tactics accordingly. Thought the Belgium game was really good tactically to be fair.

And my bone to pick with him was also caving into Davies demands and allowing him to take the penalty vs Belgium which then predictably he went onto miss. David is nearly automatic and should have went to him. He would have scored, and we would have taken the lead and who knows what happens then.....and it gets David going. David had a nightmare WC....an early penalty and he would have been flying.

[Ultra & Proud]

But once thing I would suggest is certain: a guy like that will not brook assholes in the room. He'd rather play a youth player than a DP with an attitude if that 'tude is so disruptive it hurts the overall effort.

Looks like there will be a lot of him saying arrivederci in the offseason then.

[ag futbol]

Looks like there will be a lot of him saying arrivederci in the offseason then.
As it should be. Sounds ridiculous but we all know how flawed the last two rebuilds were.

The more interesting thing will be seeing who he can salvage.

[Ultra & Proud]

David had a nightmare WC....an early penalty and he would have been flying.

Unless he missed it and that's a big stage.

Vitoria should've taken it but whatever, it was early.

[Ultra & Proud]

The more interesting thing will be seeing who he can salvage.

He will try with Osorio. I fear he will want MB as his new Atiba.

Maybe he can do something with Kerr. I would say JMR but I don't think Herdman is miracle worker level yet.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Unless he missed it and that's a big stage.

Vitoria should've taken it but whatever, it was early.

Better odds with David over Davies...

Vitoria? He takes them? Interesting

[Hala Hrvatska]

He will try with Osorio. I fear he will want MB as his new Atiba.

Maybe he can do something with Kerr. I would say JMR but I don't think Herdman is miracle worker level yet.

Big decision right away....take the arm band away from Mike? Hope so....but I don't know if Herdmann has it in him...

[Ultra & Proud]

Better odds with David over Davies...

Vitoria? He takes them? Interesting
He takes them in Portugal and his numbers are good plus he is an old head. He's been in big matches. He would have been the safe option.

[613reppingTFC]

I know it's a really useless exercise here because we know about how many injuries we have had and for some reason the lower body/leg have been a really big factor for a while now. (Speaking of which do we know what's up with O'Neil after he left the last game yet..no update?).
I decided to go through the team list because it feels like as soon as someone starts they play one or two games and have a leg injury fairly quickly and it's staggering the amount of people:

Ibarra, Mailula (30 mins) , Owusu & Insigne - all 1 game then leg injury
O'Neil - 2 games then leg
Diomande - 2 games then Muscle. Then played 3 games and a lower body
Blessing - 3 games and then "not in squad" (wasn't sure if this was injury related)
Vazquez - 4 games (2 of them were only 4 minutes total though) then his lower injury
Gutierrez- (who I forgot was here) - missed 9 games due to illness when arrived then played 58 minutes and then just not in the squad
Bradley - 7 games before his injury

I know you're bound to have injuries pile up and such but seems quite extensive here..notable mentions we had Hedges with two leg injuries. MAK, Rosted & Petretta with one. Oso was out with his MCL I believe. I can't remember what Coello's injury was.
Anyways, like I said I know useless exercise but I was curious and thought I would share what I was looking up.

[Ultra & Proud]

O'Neill is in concussion protocol they said and Coello had a leg injury but it happened by an in match collision. Blessing is hamstring. No idea what's up with Gutierrez.

[SenorDingDong]

I totally forgot Blessing was even on the team

[OgtheDim]

Philly loves to beat you through the meticulous development of chaos ball.

It starts about the 20th minute and doesn't stop until they have 2 goals.


We can't deal with chaos ball.


"We are becoming a team hard to score against" might be getting a whupping tonight.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1697017109216141499?s=20

[OgtheDim]

When the best stories of the lineup are who is on the subs bench.....


(JMR there not starting is good)
(Blessing there at all is good)

[MikeForbes]

Uhre and Carranza against Rosted and Bradley has massacre written all over it.

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1697017109216141499?s=20

Hmmm... that looks suspiciously like our most competitive lineup right now, barring the new guys not being injured.

I am surprised. Dunfield has pulled out all sorts of strange choices so far, so this looks remarkably sober.


Uhre and Carranza against Rosted and Bradley has massacre written all over it.

Oh yeah. Unless we can bypass their press well with long passing, we're in trouble.

[OgtheDim]

If Oso is in the middle, that might work for him. If he's asked to be on the left only, that's a problem.

[SenorDingDong]

4-2-3-1?

[MikeForbes]

Philly's midfield might prove to just be too good. Gazdag aside, both Flach and Martinez would be potential DPs here.

[OgtheDim]

Bradley letting Caranza get the ball in our box and thinking his defensive skill can take care of it....

almost as hubristic as insisting on every GK going to MB first

[OgtheDim]

"Kerr was standing still just waiting to see what would happen"


DRINK

[MikeForbes]

A goal?!

[MikeForbes]

There is a player in Kerr. He has been our most effective non-DP player the past 18 months.

[OgtheDim]

Philly has this big hole in their midfield - its weird.

[jloome]

Interesting take from the commentators, that Dunny has said his job is to get them to not "fall back into" the Bob Bradley system.

Don't think we'd seen much evidence of that until tonight.

[MikeForbes]

Philly has this big hole in their midfield - its weird.

Considering they are playing a 4-4-2 diamond, it is weird. Might change with McGlynn coming in. The guy is the modern Mark Delgado.

[jloome]

Considering they are playing a 4-4-2 diamond, it is weird. Might change with McGlynn coming in. The guy is the modern Mark Delgado.

Headman in the Diamond is pressing high, leaving space behind him.

[OgtheDim]

Oso as the AM is....not bad.

[tfcfans]

And we are back…..LOL…..

[MikeForbes]

Romero...

[samuraizero]

Classic tfc

[OgtheDim]

Oh, look..its the nightly "Uh, Kobe?" moment.

[MikeForbes]

Neither are big names, but Uhre and Carranza are an elite strike pairing.

[MikeForbes]

Oh, look..its the nightly "Uh, Kobe?" moment.

Had two good games. Probably gonna be deciding between Man City and United.

[OgtheDim]

Neither are big names, but Uhre and Carranza are an elite strike pairing.

Yeh, they are out muscling our team badly - its like watching a bunch of power forwards destroy a bunch of guards.

[rydermike]

Had two good games. Probably gonna be deciding between Man City and United.
After good game... Manchester United FC
After bad game.... FC United of Manchester

[ag futbol]

Errors from Kobe and Romero. Whatever.

Coello is absolutely balling out. Good to see.

[OgtheDim]

I would suspect Curtin will adjust his midfield at half time - Philly tends to go long quickly but they have had their outlets plugged by Oso & Ibarra playing higher then expected.


It was fun to watch though - especially the interplay once we broke their lines.

[ag futbol]

Insgine is no good 1v1. We need to use him for something else.

[MikeForbes]

Ibarra's best game as a TFC player. He is likely not back next year, but Franco is showing that we need to invest a u-22 spot in the midfield.

[MikeForbes]

Insgine is no good 1v1. We need to use him for something else.

I maintain his best position is as a 10. He has no acceleration and honestly seems to lack ideas when dribbling 1v1.

[rydermike]

Insigne and Bernadeschi are too predictable....every play they aim for a tiragirro cutting in on their strong foot for a shot but teams just throw two or three guys to block it

[OgtheDim]

Ibarra's best game as a TFC player. He is likely not back next year, but Franco is showing that we need to invest a u-22 spot in the midfield.

Ibarra can't really go back to Atlanta....who knows.


I thought Insigne had a great half passing the ball - he has 2 guys expecting his signature move everytime though.

[ag futbol]

Ibarra can't really go back to Atlanta....who knows.

This is where our new silver tounged leprechaun of a manager will come in handy.

[MikeForbes]

Ibarra can't really go back to Atlanta....who knows.


I thought Insigne had a great half passing the ball - he has 2 guys expecting his signature move everytime though.

If we can bring Ibarra back, that is a massive plus. MLS roster rules are strange, but a smart GM can exploit them.

[jloome]

Good lord, it's like we're playing not badly and winning and stuff.

[jloome]

Kobe Franklin with a killer ball behind there.

[MikeForbes]

Kerr being sold to Sweden, confirmed.

[ag futbol]

Nice! That’ll be good for the mojo

[OgtheDim]

I...this is actually fun...is this allowed?

[MikeForbes]

We might win!

[samuraizero]

I...this is actually fun...is this allowed?


No. Turn it off/go home.

[jloome]

Anyone else feel a palpable sense of relief? I mean, I know it's early days but.... damn, that feels gooood.

Great run from Oso.

[tfcfans]

3 goals in the same game ?! Once a year like clockwork…LOL…

[wopchop]

Anyone else feel a palpable sense of relief? I mean, I know it's early days but.... damn, that feels gooood

Great run from Oso.
Fantastic to see

Did Herdman already give them a speech?

[OgtheDim]

And there we have it

An "KOBE!?!?!" moment

That reminded me of Beitashour to Cheyrou...

[MikeForbes]

Great pass by Kobe. Madrid and Barca will be bidding against each other on deadline day.

[Amir.]

franklin to osorio 3-1!! when other ppl put it on a plate for him he might get it done...thats a tfc dp for you

[tfcfans]

Renewal Notices to be released tomorrow….LOL….

[samuraizero]

Renewal Notices to be released tomorrow….LOL….


100% gonna happen

[wopchop]

Renewal Notices to be released tomorrow….LOL….
Haha so true!

[OgtheDim]

I fully expect them to tie us and maybe actually beat us because they are the kings of MLS chaos & we are the absolutely worst at that


&

this is fun right now

[MikeForbes]

Amazing to think we got Ayo Akinola likely to come back as a u-22 DP when we have DeAndre Kerr who is on a fraction of his salary.

[SenorDingDong]

15 minutes... come on. This win would do a world of wonder for confidence.

[rydermike]

Defend our lead... Throw on our slowest player

[MikeForbes]

Defend our lead... Throw on our slowest player

Nostalgia though.

[MikeForbes]

Jeff Dahmer on the Union sideline getting out managed by Terry Dunfield.

[Amir.]

goalkeeper coach conway sits right next to dunfield and they are talking to each other non stop...instead of a pozniak who won a pdl championship as a head coach or jakovic...staff sitting in the seats back there while gk coach conway is front row right next to dunfield...how much power does this guy have???

[FiveThreeTwo]

So is coello gonna be herdmans estaquio moving forward? No pace but man has been just calm and knocking balls around with ease

Just need a ball winner in tandem with him (maybe Ibarra… hope) and you got the start of something

[SenorDingDong]

So is coello gonna be herdmans estaquio moving forward? No pace but man has been just calm and knocking balls around with ease

Just need a ball winner in tandem with him (maybe Ibarra… hope) and you got the start of something

Yes. He's a must keep. He just needs an Ibarra or work horse around him which MLS has plenty of.

[MikeForbes]

This happening between the Herdman and Dunfield era is ideal.

[ag futbol]

What did Franklin eat before the game?

[SenorDingDong]

Herdmans at the game. This is the new coach bump I think we all thought we would have got when Bob was canned.

[FiveThreeTwo]

goalkeeper coach conway sits right next to dunfield and they are talking to each other non stop...instead of a pozniak who won a pdl championship as a head coach or jakovic...staff sitting in the seats back there while gk coach conway is front row right next to dunfield...how much power does this guy have???

Yeah it’s surprised me too lol where you see Conway up with the clipboard directing tactics to the players as a GK coach lol at times, instead of some of the others.

Either terry loves him or he’s in job retention mode sucking up by taking on extra tasks to look more adaptable lol

[ag futbol]

That should be a red.

[OgtheDim]

Insigne showing Martinez how small his balls are....

[samuraizero]

And a red

[ag futbol]

That was enjoyable. They actually played on the front foot and were moving the ball around well.

I’ll take as many Spanish midfielders as the world has to offer.

[Oldtimer]

So TFC narrowly misses setting a new MLS losing streak.

[OgtheDim]

Hmm...slow night around here tonight.

20 minutes after a win - 3 posts

[SenorDingDong]

Hmm...slow night around here tonight.



I think everyone (myself included) anticipated us losing... instead they play an amazing game full of life and passion.

[OgtheDim]

Insigne showing Martinez how small his balls are....

Seriously, people..go back if you can and watch the "afters' from that foul. Insigne literally holds up his hands in a gesture indicating somebody had very very small cajones.


Point being - if you don't give a cow turd, you don't react like that -or like Berna did on the goals.

[mowe]

Great game. Ibarra and Coello can be something to build on. Hope Ibarra stays.

[Bushmancan]

Great game. Ibarra and Coello can be something to build on. Hope Ibarra stays.

I was going to say the exact same thing around the 20th minute but did not want to jinx it. Best 90 minutes we have played this season. We got a few bounces as well.

[jloome]

Michael Bradley was really good tonight. He had a couple of moments around the box early that were worrisome but settled down and was really good at breaking up any breaks later on.

[rydermike]

One issue I noticed from my view in the stands was on corners, they let a guy stand on Romero every time with no defender helping out. There should be a defender pushing that guy out of the keepers way. It's not Romero's job to cover a guy. I was in disbelief how it kept happening.

[leedsandTFC]

best performance since portland at home last year.

players performed better, but seemed to be a ton of tactical adjustments that worked too.

[leedsandTFC]

Michael Bradley was really good tonight. He had a couple of moments around the box early that were worrisome but settled down and was really good at breaking up any breaks later on.

his reading of the game and anticipation is elite.

pace not such a big issue at CB as they are usually not too quick anyways.

shockingly solid from him and rosted tonight when i woudl have expected anything but (excellent protection from coello and ibarra it must be said).

[noxx98]

It was a lot of fun to sing "I just can't get enough" as we left the stadium tonight. Felt like it was the first time all year. COYR.

[613reppingTFC]

One issue I noticed from my view in the stands was on corners, they let a guy stand on Romero every time with no defender helping out. There should be a defender pushing that guy out of the keepers way. It's not Romero's job to cover a guy. I was in disbelief how it kept happening.

I noticed that too that they were leaving a defender unmarked and for Romero to defend or probably just get up and punch it away. I also noticed Oso marking his man but wasn't goalside. He did the same thing and wasn't goalside on the throw in before the goal they scored and he got muscled off the ball before the cross.

Overall good performance, wasn't expecting it but they did well.

Also Insigne actually looked like he showed a bit of fire finally and telling the other player he had some small cajones lol. I went back and took a photo but no idea how to post it on here hah

[barticusz]

Just got through watching the replay.

Please let this be the start of a turn around. It was so nice to see some quick counter attacks mixed in with decent spells of possession.

Coello and Ibarra were great. Kerr played very well and his hold up play really helped us. Franklin really turned it around this game after a number of frankly poor starts.

Timing of this win in some ways is so unfortunate as we’re heading into another long break.

[ensco]

Quick hits based on extended highlights only…

- interesting stuff we have been waiting for from Oso. Makes the layoff to unlock Kerr on first goal. - - Oso looked so far forward that he was maybe playing a false 9?
- has Oso ever scored on a header before tonight?
- In the goal celebration, while Insigne is clearly focused on the crowd somewhere, Oso is giving Kerr the props, because he knows Kerr made the important play there. Herdman notices that stuff.
- before slagging Insigne too much, that was Lorenzo fighting for his teammate there on the late yellow to red, we haven’t seen much of that
- that long through ball from Franklin would be on every highlight show today in Europe, if it had come from the Italians. Franklin reminds me a lot of Alistair Johnston, except he hasn’t figured out how not to get burned three times a game. I will bet Herdman is thinking a lot about how to get Franklin's defensive game figured out

[Auzzy]

So TFC narrowly misses setting a new MLS losing streak.

Like I said, they even suck at losing. :D :D

Oh man oh man what a game to miss. Only saw the highlights. Beautiful goals. So quiet in here, many folks are too shell-shocked to suddenly have to say something positive. ;)

[OgtheDim]

Day after thoughts (I was not at the game)

Phily played into our strengths - weird - like the Portland game last year - this ain't gonna happen against Vancouver
Philly team in general had an off night - our 2 DM approach nullified their diamond press
Insigne & Berna professional in all things - easier when you have willing midfield runners
Insigne showed fight on a number of occasions - I still think he believes in a project
Berna discussion with Dunfield during the game - professional - Berna may want out and maybe there is a plan already which is fine but he seems to be trying to be a pro while here
All our problem step children in the midfield and forward area did not play
MB is making instinctual DM moves - he leaves spaces like he mentally expecting a CB behind him - I'm not sold on him back there yet
Agree with ensco on Kobe
Petretta defensively more sound and linked up well with Insigne & Oso - came forward more to - Philly let him & Kobe do that with some really meh FB play
Kerr is not the long term solution but he's better then Sapong or Ayo as a backup/sub - I would put more stock in Prince
Kerr did decent hold up play against the best CB pairing in the league
Romero needs better coaching on how to manoeuvre the ball - his palm back out to the 6 almost cost us a late goal
Vasquez as the designated "slow it down lads" guy was fun

[Hala Hrvatska]

Has been so long don't even know what to say...lol. Shocked we won but like it!

The Italians were electric. Insigne had a few giveaways and Fede no idea what he was doing on the breakaway late when he missed but they were both very good all night long wreaking havoc.

Ibarra and Coello were very good and tireless.

Loved Insigne sticking up for his teamate late.

Bradely is done...sorry, lets get out the pom poms for him for making a few sideways passes...he marks no one and another over the top ball and his man races by him...while he trots back at half pace...the one sequence when they hit the bar twice, he's standing there marking no one.....slow as molasses...gives acres of space...reitre please.

Romero, bad on the goal but otherwise did okay....still want to see what we have in Gavran...

Happy for Dunfield...he was estatic....finally we win. Is in over his head but a genuine nice guy.

I couldn't unload my tickets so took my son and his 2 buddies...finally, was a fun time...smiles everywhere....winning does that. Onwards and upwards.

Final though, Manning out!

[Kamp Berg]

Great game, the short, quick passing kind of reminded me of 2017. Hopefully signs of more to come. Ibarra is a must keep, especially paired with Coello. The comment about Dunfield coaching out the Bob tendencies was interesting, could explain why everyone has seems disjointed and confused until tonight. Can’t discount that Herdman in the stands made tonight a tryout as much as anything, but damn fun to watch!

[SenorDingDong]

Dunfield needs to run with thus lineup for remainder of season.

Only exception is maybe Cash or Prince for Kerr. Even though he played great.

That back 4 should remain though. MB as a stop gap CB works until next season. Rosted again showing he can play well with a veteran beside him. We need to find that quality CB this off season.

[ag futbol]

There were , for the first time in ages, things that looked like an actual plan to move the ball in attack. The way guys were trying to quickly play balls around the corner near the top of the 18. The way we kept Bernie higher up the field and tried to find him with longer passes to keep phily’s backline honest. Those were key.

Ibarra and Coello were the stars. Everyone else feeding off that in my opinion. Osorio also had his best game in ages. If he can play like that maybe we have some hope of getting value from that contract.

Bradley played fine but it’s very clear there’s nothing left in the tank. There was a play early in the game where the Phily attacker made a short run in behind and although he recognized and tried to react, his first step and subsequent recovery were so slow Rosted had to come across and help. We need him back there right now for leadership and because there’s no other option but come the off-season it’s time to hang-em up.

[JoesphNdo]

The main takeaway is man, I know our chances are next to none, but it'd be such a coup to get Ibarra full time. He looks like what our mid field has needed for years I think

[Derko]

I guess you are eating a bit of Humble Pie, the defense played surpringly well with a few luck bounces.

[Derko]

This is where our new silver tounged leprechaun of a manager will come in handy.

If you are referring to John Herdman, he is a Geordie, not Irish, just correcting you. Cheers

[Mr. Inbetween]

Although it seemed so to me, did TFC primarily use a 4-2-3-1 in the attacking phase of the match with Oso usually in the hole?

[Mr. Inbetween]

If you are referring to John Herdman, he is a Geordie, not Irish, just correcting you. Cheers

'Wey aye man!', he is. :)

[MikeForbes]

Still can't believe we actually won a game. Woke up this morning and thought I dreamt it.

[portu]

Kerr unreal. Franklin can pass a ball. Italians showing they still got it.

Good match.

[Joe Kool]

Glad for the win and to see some actual good play. I wonder if Philly just thought they only had to show up to get the win and were not ready for the game. Sometimes that can happen when playing a team that has been a dumpster fire most of the season.

[ag futbol]

If you are referring to John Herdman, he is a Geordie, not Irish, just correcting you. Cheers
More a comment on stature than lineage but no offence taken, haha.

[FootBallAZ]

my take away:

1- Bill Manning has somehow wont be going anywhere- as much as the win feels amazing and the football played was watchable - this basically means- nothing to me will change in the long run- it took 14 games to get 1 win- 5 goals over the last 10 games - eh

2. Herdman- influence- this team did not play like this for the previous 10 matches- i believe herdman made some adjustments and explained his vision and play style- (also believe he has been around the team then just last night)

3. Bernie i think is our most important player along with coello and ibarra(which again- bill manning lucked into)

4. Philly didnt look great after first 15M - i assume maybe they were burnt out from the leagues cup VS TFC who had no intense games during the break.

5. Stadium looked empty- supporters were loud.

6. playing with convinction and moving the ball forward instead of backwards + goals -makes things a lot easier to deal with-winning is a beautiful bonus.

7. as much as everyone is happy- do not forget the man in charge of this mess who hasnt admitted to mistakes and has led TFC to highest pay-roll and worst record- has possibly solidified his position within TFC again.


of course- the game i bet on for once - TFC busts my ticket- i had a feeling Lol

[Ultra & Proud]

my take away:

1- Bill Manning has somehow wont be going anywhere- as much as the win feels amazing and the football played was watchable - this basically means- nothing to me will change in the long run- it took 14 games to get 1 win- 5 goals over the last 10 games - eh


But there's a confict here as TFC is a team we should want to win and be good. We shouldn't be rooting against positive play & results to spite Manning. Should also be said again that Manning didn't have an active hand in our downfall and failures minus selecting managers/GMs/Sporting Directors who he trusted that turned out to be shit. He should have been sacked for his part in it all but he wasn't. Now I hope Herdman works out and we get back on track even if it means Manning lurks in the shadows and gets credit he doesn't deserve.

[Graeme]

So...are we mathematically eliminated from playoffs yet, or do we have a tiny chance!?!

[Ultra & Proud]

So...are we mathematically eliminated from playoffs yet, or do we have a tiny chance!?!
Need that playoffs?!? gif for this.

[ManUtd4ever]

The Herdman effect is already taking place. He watches from the stands and the boys gave their best effort of the season by a country mile.

Hopefully it will continue.

[jloome]

The Herdman effect is already taking place. He watches from the stands and the boys gave their best effort of the season by a country mile.

Hopefully it will continue.

It did seem more that we'd see from a 'new manager' bounce.

We had a shockingly sensible lineup, to begin with. Responsibilities were far more divided, passing was far more progressive, guys were making runs behind.

But biggest of all was they'd clearly resolved to cycle the ball quickly instead of playing off the cuff and looking for opportunities. It was all about moving it into more dangerous areas quickly. But once we were in their end, they were quite patient.

I can't believe after ten straight losses that that was all Dunivant.

[Ultra & Proud]

I can't believe after ten straight losses that that was all Dunivant.

Couldn't have been. We went from a worse version of Bob ball to something reasonable in a week and a week where Herdman came on board. Can't be coincidence or even a bounce. There was a noticible change in tactics and play.

[MikeForbes]

Yeah, I would imagine Herdman had some say in what we saw last night.

[Initial B]

By all rights, that shouldn't have happened last night. There was no indication over the last couple of months that TFC had anything in them like this, and Philly is one of the elite teams in the East. I can only think of a couple of reasons why this result happened.

1. Hurdman must have said something or the players were acutely aware of his presence. That's the only difference between last night and the previous couple of months.
2. Philly coaching staff drew up a game plan based on Bradley-ball, which TFC didn't play last night. Perhaps Dunfield managed to break them out of that ret, like someone mentioned upthread?
3. Philly players underestimated TFC based on current form and eased up mentally. They thought they were playing a team with no morale that would roll over and got burned.

I mean, the difference between this game and the previous couple of months was so stark, and the result so unexpected. I was one of those tinfoil-hat wearers, I would look into someone on the Philly team being on the take or someone in the MLS Front Office pulled some levers to ensure TFC won. I'm wondering what the other teams will come up with to counter now. I'm curious, but not hopeful (that's been beaten out of me this year) to see how they come out next game.

[Amir.]

only michael bradleys third game back and all of a sudden a win after 10 straight losses in all competitions and 11 straight games without winning in the league...1.1 ppg with him playing which is not good but an absolutely horrific 0.65 without him in the league...add to that 3 losses in the cups...the only thing that was keeping this team from completely falling apart early in the season was michael bradley

[jloome]

only michael bradleys third game back and all of a sudden a win after 10 straight losses in all competitions and 11 straight games without winning in the league...1.1 ppg with him playing which is not good but an absolutely horrific 0.65 without him in the league...add to that 3 losses in the cups...the only thing that was keeping this team from completely falling apart early in the season was michael bradley

He was really good last night.

He had some problems early with letting a couple of guys behind him in the box, as if he was playing an anchor role. But once those disappeared he was really effective, particularly at cutting off passes.

Good football brain, slow legs notwithstanding.

I thought this assessment of the match from MLSsoccer.com was amusing:

TORONTO FC - 3 | PHILADELPHIA UNION - 1
L. Insigne (23'), D. Kerr (58'), J. Osorio (63') | J. Carranza (45')


What happened?: I… what?

So, did we learn anything?: I………… what????????

I mean……. this league is never anything but on-brand and you have to respect that.

[jloome]

Annnnd.... a non-miserable team recap story with lots of happy quotes (and a terrible lede. Jesus H, James, learn to write a fucking lede will ya?)

https://www.torontofc.ca/news/reds-clinch-convincing-victory-over-philadelphia-at-home-long-long-long-overdue

[Canary10]

So...are we mathematically eliminated from playoffs yet, or do we have a tiny chance!?!

The beauty of the new MLS playoff format is that even the worst team in the league cannot be mathematically eliminated until the final gameweek of the season. It's genius.

[jloome]

The beauty of the new MLS playoff format is that even the worst team in the league cannot be mathematically eliminated until the final gameweek of the season. It's genius.

We're 10 out with 21 points available. So our magic number is effectively three losses and a draw, four games if we're going by what opponents do.

So we're not technically dead but man, those are long odds.

[Canary10]

We're 10 out with 21 points available. So our magic number is effectively three losses and a draw, four games if we're going by what opponents do.

So we're not technically dead but man, those are long odds.

I know, I was just mocking this playoff system. We shouldn't even technically have a chance at this stage.

[JonO]

I know, I was just mocking this playoff system. We shouldn't even technically have a chance at this stage.the joys of 3 points for a win… and massive parity (at least in terms of points) through the middle of the table.

On an unrelated note I had forgotten that it was supposed to be fun watching TFC play. Also, I don’t think I have even heard BMO that quiet for the final 10 min with a 2 goal lead. It was almost as if the whole stadium was holding its breath.

[Gringo Starr]

I thought we were done when Philly scored just before the half, its still surreal that we won, scored 3 goals and looked like we could have had more. Means nothing in the grand scheme of things but sure was a welcome change.

[wopchop]

Hopefully this is a sign that Herdman can inspire these guys. They are bottom of the league - now it is time to fight for respect and the badge. They need a mission. Just think about 2017 - they lost on that cold night in 2016, and no one forgot. The next year they came back for vengeance. Last night we saw a sign of that fight and fire.

I know many have been critical of the Herdman hire, but I think it could be an inspired one. He is the right guy for this mission.

[Canary10]

I thought we were done when Philly scored just before the half, its still surreal that we won, scored 3 goals and looked like we could have had more. Means nothing in the grand scheme of things but sure was a welcome change.

I thought we were done with that goal at the half too. What would be the odds of us scoring not 1, not 2, but 3 goals in a game?!! Lol!

[FootBallAZ]

i want everyone to remain level headed- TFC hasnt won away in almost a full calendar year- 1 win doesnt erase the hardship and f'up's from this upper management team.

do not forget the man who put TFC in this position is still here- a single win or winning out the rest of the season doesnt excuse- bill manning for being held accountable for his mis-steps ( the athletic article really had it on point - regarding the best job in MLS)

[OgtheDim]

i want everyone to remain level headed- ...

Why start now?

[jloome]

I know, I was just mocking this playoff system. We shouldn't even technically have a chance at this stage.

The insane thing is, we technically have the perfect schedule to pull off an enormous upset.

It's still not going to happen, but every team in the 10 pts ahead of us with a couple of exceptions is playing a stronger team EVERY week until the end of the season.

There are two or three where they're playing each other but for the most part, it's top of the table against bottom.

So all we have to do is when seven games straight, including games against Cincy and Miami.

Piece of piss!

[wopchop]

The insane thing is, we technically have the perfect schedule to pull off an enormous upset.

It's still not going to happen, but every team in the 10 pts ahead of us with a couple of exceptions is playing a stronger team EVERY week until the end of the season.

There are two or three where they're playing each other but for the most part, it's top of the table against bottom.

So all we have to do is when seven games straight, including games against Cincy and Miami.

Piece of piss?
Yeah, we play Charlotte, Miami, Red Bulls, NYCFC - all teams playing for position. Then we got Cincinnati, Orlando and Vancouver. Theoretically it could happen, but probability very low.

[Gringo Starr]

Can’t we just be happy with a win a few goals and first overall pick in the Super draft, I don’t want to see a late season run.

[ag futbol]

Super draft means little. I realize there have been some useful players to come out of that process but half the magic here appears to be good scouting as opposed to a high pick.

I’m not even bothering to think about our place in the table. Just want to see the team play a bit better and stabilize. That would go a long way towards framing next year as a potential for a positive start, which is the most important thing here.

[Canary10]

Can’t we just be happy with a win a few goals and first overall pick in the Super draft, I don’t want to see a late season run.

I'd just like to see a few wins at home to make it fun again to go.

[FootBallAZ]

Can’t we just be happy with a win a few goals and first overall pick in the Super draft, I don’t want to see a late season run.


will probably trade the pick and 1million in game for a useless player LOL

[Ultra & Proud]

First overall pick in the draft is meaningless usually. Look at who worked out in recent drafts. Pretty random. Takes solid scouting and no matter what, we're getting a top 3, maybe top 5 pick if something crazy happens. First is also probably unlikely due to the dumpster fire Rapids.

[Gringo Starr]

OKay so compromise we win at home and lose on the road, I just think the draft pick might be good with Herdman’s staff making the pick

[jloome]

OKay so compromise we win at home and lose on the road, I just think the draft pick might be good with Herdman’s staff making the pick

Duncan Maguire was the consensus best player in the NCAA and only went sixth. Now he's a 10 goal scorer likely going to Europe soon.

[ensco]

Yeah, we play Charlotte, Miami, Red Bulls, NYCFC - all teams playing for position. Then we got Cincinnati, Orlando and Vancouver. Theoretically it could happen, but probability very low.

If we win final 8 games (Philly plus next 7), our odds of making it are still less than 50%
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/Toronto.html

If we win 6 of final 7, and tie the 7th, our odds of making it are … 11%

[ag futbol]

Duncan Maguire was the consensus best player in the NCAA and only went sixth. Now he's a 10 goal scorer likely going to Europe soon.
MLS teams love to do counter intuitive things and outsmart themselves.

Case in point: taking Griffin Dorsey over Tajon, etc…

[Ultra & Proud]

MLS teams love to do counter intuitive things and outsmart themselves.

Case in point: taking Griffin Dorsey over Tajon, etc…
Trading the 1st pick (Farrell) for the 3rd pick (Bekker)?

[jloome]

MLS teams love to do counter intuitive things and outsmart themselves.

Case in point: taking Griffin Dorsey over Tajon, etc…

Yeah... although getting rid of Dorsey without giving him a chance was also stupid. He's quite a good right back for Houston now, starting regularly. Set up a really nice goal the other night.

[OgtheDim]

will probably trade the pick and 1million in game for a useless player LOL

I'm not sold that the past stupidities are going to be repeated.....although the draft is a crap shoot.

[Initial B]

I'm not sold that the past stupidities are going to be repeated.....although the draft is a crap shoot.
That depends on who is calling the shots and has the real power in the organization: Is it Hernandez, Manning, or the MLSE board? If it's those last two, then the stupidities are guaranteed.

[Brooker]

I know, I was just mocking this playoff system. We shouldn't even technically have a chance at this stage.

That is scandelous.

[MikeForbes]

The SuperDraft is seemingly becoming a more and more viable way of obtaining talent. Especially in those non-DP positions like CB, fullback and GK. We also shouldn't be tanking for number one overall. This isn't the NFL, NBA or NHL.

[OgtheDim]

That depends on who is calling the shots and has the real power in the organization: Is it Hernandez, Manning, or the MLSE board? If it's those last two, then the stupidities are guaranteed.

You seriously think they are going to trade the pick + a million in allocation money?



My issue is the hyperbole / PTSD is so strong around here people suggest the worst will happen when its more likely just to be mediocre.

[ensco]

You seriously think they are going to trade the pick + a million in allocation money?

My issue is the hyperbole / PTSD is so strong around here people suggest the worst will happen when its more likely just to be mediocre.

Well just to spitball here….suspect Diomande/Petretta/Rosted, in addition to the Italians, may all be buyout candidates, as all of them make far more than their market value.

We can only buyout one of them. We spent a high superdraft pick to do a second buy out for Dom Dwyer not that long ago, and these guys are on a lot more money than Dwyer was making.

So trading that top superdraft pick plus some real GAM to buy out, say, a Diomande, is hardly farfetched.

[Bushmancan]

Well just to spitball here….suspect Diomande/Petretta/Rosted, in addition to the Italians, may all be buyout candidates, as all of them make far more than their market value.

We can only buyout one of them. We spent a high superdraft pick to do a second buy out for Dom Dwyer not that long ago, and these guys are on a lot more money than Dwyer was making.

So trading that top superdraft pick plus some real GAM to buy out, say, a Diomande, is hardly farfetched.

Please no!!! Let’s stop the rush to win at all costs, they so badly screwed the organization up with their arrogance and lack of judgement. Now i am not saying that the above isn’t a potential option, but i would think 4 times before doing it, we have to take our lumps for being so stupid.

Find the best young candidate in the Superdraft and then don’t let them go the year before they blossom - sooooo stupid!!!. Is there a site anywhere that ranks the eligible draft players?

[ag futbol]

Yeah, maybe we need to accept the ceiling next year is being “okay” and battling to be mid table while we wait for some of these contracts to come off.

I would definitely use our one buyout on somebody though.

[jloome]

Yeah, maybe we need to accept the ceiling next year is being “okay” and battling to be mid table while we wait for some of these contracts to come off.

I would definitely use our one buyout on somebody though.

It might well be worth trading a first pick for a buyout if there's no one in the draft with real potential.

[rydermike]

After punting two high picks in a row in the Dywer and Kaye trades, I'd rather us just take a shot at a pick, seeing as we haven't made a decent trade with the picks anyways.

[Bushmancan]

Technically cant we buy out one contract this year and one next year if we wanted to without giving up our draft?

Btw McNaughton was competent enough to start last night without Zimmerman. Lets dump a 100k salary +$200k in GAM for Sapong. (As an aside Sapong has been a Pro commitment wise, so not dumping on him)

Seriously, under Manning’s watch…. People like to say he gave all the authority to Curtis and then Bradley to make decisions. I say laziness, absent landlord with no checks or balances!! Fire Manning.